Transcripts For ALJAZ Ken Loach Edouard Louis 20240713

The University Community is very thrilled. There was a water on one hot off. We are very actually i think the great thing and i think great show that we can do. Right at. The breakers here is what can be done but we have our back were going to get it back taken during the obama. We got a back up and right away very happy. Story told was between north korea and the u. S. Show no sign of easing with pyongyang saying denuclearization is now off the table north koreas ambassador to the United Nations says washingtons efforts for ongoing dialogue was solely for its own domestic agenda the comments came after a 6 year pm countries condemned pyongyang last week for its 13 missile launches since may talks on denuclearization have been largely deadlocked since a summit between donald trump and kim jong un failed in february. The u. S. Defense secretary says he cant label a deadly shooting on a u. S. Naval base as terrorism on friday Saudi National mohammed decide some ronnie shot dead 3 of his fellow students he was later killed by sheriffs investigators are now questioning 10 Saudi Nationals in connection with the shooting of course we extend our condolences to all the families affected by it and touched by it and our military community downer but no i cant say its terrorism at this time i think we need to let the investigators the do its work and tell us give us the facts and well move from there. The president says out in leaders have assured him theyre conducting their own investigations i spoke with the king of saudi arabia. They are devastated the arabia were finding out what the way whether its one person or a number before. The king will be involved in taking care of family loved ones he feels very strongly very very devastated by what happened what. Mike hanna has more from washington d. C. Its very early days in the investigation being carried out all headed by the f. B. I. Both in the u. S. And also f. B. I. Agents sent to riyadh to cooperate with saudi intelligence authorities there but certainly the latest news that at least 10 Saudi Nationals have been detained on the base a indication of the possibility of a wider conspiracy and not just the act of an individual in equally that individual the gunman who carried out the attack his reports about a twitter feed that he had indicated an alert allegiance to an alliance with the sama bin laden as well as intense criticism of u. S. Policy in the middle east in particular relating to jerusalem another indication of some kind of outside involvement was an Associated Press report that one of the Saudi Nationals detained on the naval base filmed the entire attack while it was taking place inside a classroom complex on the base but still as we heard from the secretary of defense investigators nowhere near any firm conclusion they will continue to do their work in establishing what the real motive was behind this attack. Theres been a dramatic escalation of violence in iraq over the last 24 hours on saturday a drone attack targeted in iraq a shia clerics home in the city of not just in baghdad more gunfire has been heard after friday nights violence that left 20 people dead fighters loyal to libyas u. N. Recognized government say theyre shot down a fighter jet belonging to the wall orderly for hafta the incident reportedly happened in the south of tripoli after us forces have been fighting to take the capital from the internationally recognized government. Those are the headlines the news continues here on aljazeera after studio b. Unscripted statement thats a watch and i thought. Who would have thought. Then and now a rich country we use hunger as a weapon its much more difficult to be left wing than to be right wing you know because the history of the left is full of lies and betrayals oh it has to be subversive if you dont have a level of anger about you then stand him you know. What i tried to do is to turn my own life into a weapon to challenge and to question social violence one of the main issue for the people of my childhood was that we would always be dismissed as fictional people my name is it well we i mean the author of 3 books about poverty and the working class in which i grew up. Made films for. 50 years or more. Im a man of the left and have been since the early 1960 s. So i want to thank them for is why folks at. Cannes movies are about people like me about poverty about the working class and really spoke to me like nothing before. The window why. Do you really think i want to. Really. Yeah. Im interested to meet him because his writing his face extraordinary and has experienced hardship and i. Question at 1st hand can watch is one of the artist and i and my other most on earth is a hero for me so i cant wait to meet him and have this conversation with him. Hes a different generation to me and well see the demands of the left needs to make maybe differently so i think theres a lot for talking. Im going to start in my last book who killed my father i tried to talk about about my father and about my fathers life and the fact is that my father when he was 35 had an accident at the factory where was working and when his father and grandfather were working before and he could not work for several years and after that the french states kind of harassed him to go back to work so basically telling him if you dont go back to work you will lose your benefits and in fact this book was much. Made possible and inspired by your movie by daniel blake and i have the impression that the focus of your movie of the new black is political and social persecution and i think in the left in the past until today and its still true in a way but we talked a lot about social exclusion as being one of the main 2 that oppress people in excluded people but what i feel from my fathers life or for the character of daniel bake or its even more true if you think about people of color were being persecuted by Police Brutality police force and everything and do you think that prosecution as a Political Tool is a modern of conservative politics and. Its a huge issue really interview give really good point i think it begins that they cannot mix. Workers change so this and there is a lot of precarious work and a lot of it is very badly paid and the minimum wage is very low. And there are now ways of not paying the minimum wage so people have to be made so they will take. Bad work for low pay and one way to do that is is to make it so that if youre if youre not working you really suffer and even if you know working because youre ill or youre disabled it still has to be that is take a rubbish job on poverty pay than to be supported by by all of us but i mean they say by the state athletes should be all of us you know because we live together we look after each other were in trouble so therefore. Its certainly true i think in both our countries. For us the benefits system is punitive you have to apply for a nonexistent job for 35 hours a week if youre an r. T. Short youll be sanctioned and then youre sanctioned and then you dont get your money and then you get into debts and then you can pay the rent and then you might be evicted so that the threat of that is so dreadful that yes. A badly paid insecure job just to not be in that position and the cruel thing. I mean we call the conscious cruelty because because they know there was a case or could talk forever about this. I mean that. I mean the a man in a job center in wales in turn ethically 65 years old he was ill his doctors said he couldnt work but they forced him to work. He sat in a chair and he collapsed and he died and is going on week after week month after month they are today who are his thoughts then in a rich country we used hunger as a weapon and the rise in charity food as well 2 thirds of food banks as an Organization Called its arsenal trust they gave 1600000 charity food banks last year over half a 1000000 of them went to children still cant eat i mean we live under a government that treats people with absolute contempt. More if what we see him in your movies since the very beginning people are dying you know and also this is this is the very truth of of what politics is that you you can die in front if you are working less person you have 50 percent more chance to die before 65 years old and it goes the same with your women you can die from muscatine violence if you if youre a queer person you have like much more chance to kill yourself. As a gauge al i always had ideas of killing myself and its very bad you know its like that what what so many gay people in djibouti people share the same thing if youre not white if youre black if youre an arab in france you can be killed by the police so really belonging to a certain category means that you a exposed to a pretty major death you know and its very bizarre because the people who are that power to either kill us a risk us spends their time i ding what politics really hes you know and we have movies or of books or art in order to show what they do and what they are i did wild while doing it and i think thats also what why your movies are are so powerful because theyre showing this this truth like people die from politics and then you cannot have like just a cone quiet conversation about politics because youre talking about people who dont leave any more yes i think what pollutes our politics is that we. That the Public Discourse doesnt reflect the struggles that people have its a Propaganda Machine almost the entire press is on one side and a more used to be thought of as a kind of market they left paper. Is now not left at all but i think its in writing like your books that you can find your voice but that voice should be in our best mass media it should be in television and you dont hear forces like you or if it did if we did hear your voice it would be marked with a health warning. Which happens to all of us also there is something that i wanted to discuss because im not sure we are agree on that ok there it is i wrote about this this small village that used to be in this trio village in the north of france or in a sickly or my family was working at the factory yes and i saw the bodies of my father and my grandfathers and all the people around me in the village and i saw them suffering so much from working at the factory you know being that physically exhausted physically humiliated even all the time and so nowadays when i watch the news on t. V. And i see that like a factories closing in europe i cant help having a little like joy you know in saying i dont want people to do this anymore and for me the responsibilities to the states to give money to these people who dont have jobs anymore do you know organize there are so many new ways of doing politics tax on the robots tax on the capital thanks on the market doctrine and i think this is the real issue and sometime i dont i dont understand the left where they are saying like we should save our factories and everything because i dont want people to do this no but i think there are 2 things on the one hand you dont to do dirty dangerous exploitative work. But equally i think its a natural instinct what keeps using gauged in society is everyone makes a contribution everyone joins in never together function and then you get you have a sense of selfrespect and pride and thats my contribution and i have a presence i have a function and i think that thats very important to every where you can to be other forms thats what we traditionally call work can be people creating like soccer teams then yeah this is yeah absolutely so but this is not recognized by the by the state as a work most of the time no i agree but i mean they what happened to the mines in arkansas is a classic example of that i mean money is if any job is dirty and dangerous mining is you know 8 hours a day underground my fathers family role miners apart from my father and my grandfathers a miner and the kids said nothing job youd want your child to go into but they had amazing communities and when the mines were shut in the towards the end of the eightys in the ninetys when thatcher you know consciously took on the miners to beat them because of their militancy and their strength their communities were just left to rot now. You know in a proper. Society you would you find in your investment you wouldnt leave people did nothing so the community would be protected with a useful function instead of as happened with the capitalism it ok the capital closes down and we just the money goes somewhere else but at the same time these communities can be difficult and they can be toxic and growing up gay you know in a working class media it was extremely difficult for me to be part of that community because it this community didnt want me you know so i wish the community was less strong at that time but i understand your point in the fact that when people live i left isolated they dont go to unions they dont go on strike and everything which is an issue but you know like what is the solution because there is something very violent and very difficult about those communities also and today we have an opportunity to creates you know all the communities that we were not born in like through the internet i didnt use the community of my childhood and i want i dont want capitalism to destroy communities but i want to be able to escape a community is a leaf i want you know yeah thats a fair point in general i think people are more tolerant and the major Communications Like the internet have broadened peoples expectations but i think people are generous when they feel secure and theyre more narrow when they feel insecure and you know whether its a village or whether its a city i think its generosity of spirit comes out of security i mean i think its a its part of it and also its a i think its not everything i think there are still some mechanism you know of love of racism and of my skill in violence that are a part but it is also true what you would you say about the insecurity and i think we see it from your movies the fact that when people live in insecurity. Constant social violence coming you know on them on the shoulder and they end up being like tends to you know leave it is that it happens that sometimes we have a bad day at work and about there were some and we go home and we are being a little bit aggressive even when someone we love you know gay and we say why why did i do that you know because you search for it in the day and then youre like just no i dont sleep comes part of your flesh and part of your being then exactly i mean it is the it comes from stress doesnt it when you work you put on a smile you know youre in the world you place in the public face when you get home and if you work a long day then that he dont have to do this and thats when the pressure comes out and thats when i mean b b we just been working with precarious workers drivers working 12 hours with no break at all just to get a living wage and save for care workers many other people doing in the going on the me and then the stress of economic of having good enough money you know at the end of the week. Means that when you get home if youre patient or the person you live with the patient for the kids you havent seen the kids and thats where the stress comes from come from from Economic Hardship i think you know and when governments makes violence decision in the great kind of circle of violence because people suffer from violence well repeat sometimes theres violence and this is make it makes it even worse im sure people have some thoughts about the things weve been talking about. I had a question about representations i work for and i hate where a great pick campaign against the politics of white and we hear from people who face a lot of the problems that you look at and you work we hear a very kind of strong sense of voiceless and people often articulate 3 a narrative about kind of suppression by p. C. Culture and this kind of its a narrative of the populist right but it speaks to a sense of kind of being trapped by proves that you are not part of creating so i guess the question is how how then do you find your own voice i mean one way is to be part of an organization be part of a union because then other people will be sharing the same. Concerns that you have and you can articulate is in a benign way not by simply you know reheating the places that you get through the right wing press but here i think be part of a group came into a group. The formal tamer than anything anything where the good people and then and then the best tends to surface what is important is to create spaces where people feel comfortable where they can speak and i think those spaces can be a movie an organization or an association can be a book it can be can be a place a Political Party so many Different Things and its what its what your movies did to me you know the. Were spaces in which i could say i suffered and people around me sir for it you know and i think its extremely difficult to get there when when when i published i took of turn about it but when i published my my 1st novels in of eddie talking about poverty and and my life in the north of france my mother came to me and she told me why do you say we are poor you know and she did she didnt want me to say that she didnt want me to say it because actually shes ashamed of being poor you know because the governments and the people in the governments make her believe that if she spoke its because of her that its her for that shes responsible for that so at the end she doesnt want to say i suffer anymore she she and it becomes a huge political issue because if the people who suffer dont want to say that they serve for you know if it out can you change the world and now can you make it better you know if people dont want to say i suffer so ive worked with the homeless for over 70 years and what do you guys think about homelessness in the u. K. As we are one of the richest countries well out and do you guys really government care about hopelessness. They care about the Housing Market they dont care about home and the idea that the market will provide the people of course is false because theyve built and sold investments for people to buy them now live in because they will increase in value whereas as you know probably better than me last christmas under 30000 children were in temporary accommodation and i dont to be Party Political well i do want to believe it but the i mean the idea of Building Council houses that are built by them in this a palette of Health Centers and schools and make life a joy to live in. And i think it anyway but we wont get. With this government has been and yet the situation in france is pretty much the same there are people in the streets everywhere and there is this also this constant. State of lies in the in the political field saying we dont have money we dont have money we can do that because we dont have money and of course the money is so moneys everywhere you know its just that. The hands of a very few people have you ever seen a child seeing a homeless person for the 1st time the kids are so shocked the 1st day most of the times like why this person is sleeping on the street like here and this violence becomes so normal you know and we all accept it in a way and that frightens me but how do you force these people in the governments to take action and to change the situation they dont kill they think its normal i think its not i think we have to give it to them yes so there is a way they would say yeah. I would be interested to know what you think about the role of technology in movements which at the moment we were seeing are really changing the face of politics. For example hong kong for example chile for example extension rebellion thats one question the other one is the rule of empathy. Because which in your films has always allowed me see hell put those who i dont know. Really big im the wrong person to ask for that because i can barely turn my phone on. But i think i think clearly can spread the message it can communicate with a great number of people who are still by the same. But the same campaign the same ideas i think the problem is that you have to move on from that because otherwise we dont know how to effect the change you know unless you can analyze the the the forces that are driving us to disaster and how we intervene against them. How youre going to proceed so i think i think its got to be tied to political analysis and i do think it has to be tied to an organized coherent political move whether you call the party or not i dont know i think in our case i think be resealed do need a party i mean weve had huge issues with with parties and i mean the labor party is a classic example its been led by people who were committed to making capitalism work you know and just getting the crumbs off the table so the interests of the working class have not been represented in our apparent democracy the 2nd part of the role of empathy ive asked you you know. Well empathy comes from i guess from solidarity action doesnt is where you say right im not in that theres exact struggle but i will withdraw my labor in sympathy because then you can say ok youre on strike youre absolutely right the issues that you face will come to us unless we join with you and then we can use our strength. As a class just briefly about new technologies when in front there was the Yellow Vests Movement and people protesting against social violence against poverty against the french state. There wasnt a massive. Reaction from the from from from the dominion class who hated these people in the streets you know they couldnt bear it and they were saying only look at these people they are dirty they are ridiculous they are fat they are stupid and at that time like in the Mainstream Media it was extremely difficult to talk about what was going on and the social media where play were a place where you could edit things and i wrote it takes about the you know this movement and i put it on twitter because i thought its the only place where i can you know say what i have to say it and social media and new technologies are an example of that of we can use power against our position on empathy im more comfortable with the. Idea of. Confronting people and making them feel bad in a place of empathy you know i want i want to make people feel bad in a way i love it i want i want people to see kids movies or dardens brothers movies or you know by regent in smoothies and say what do i do you know what is my role in this violence what in the fight do nothing i should feel bad about it look at what these people are going through but what interests me is to is to really use out to make people feel uncomfortable you know its a very you know role of courts and now it is something people say oh i feel uncomfortable i dont feel safe you hear its a lot in the us in the academic media or in the media sphere but being uncomfortable is what should do you know make you feel like what are you doing against that you know to confront you to your to your non action to what you are not doing and i really its what i hope. The rise of the far right its a huge threat because its hiding the interest the big corporations behind a kind of phony nationalism and populism i think its a beautiful thing to put security in the mouth of the effort and to say when we talk about security we dont talk about repression we talk about helping people in such a critical moment now with struggling to find a vatican progressive way of living together. An investigation of how Foreign Companies plunder africas Natural Resources the trust issue important and the question revealing how new movie is officials demand cash in exchange for favors. With confidential documents provided to aljazeera by wiki leaks you committee for instance i was part of the crunch and im not dealing out dizzy or investigations the anatomy of a braai. Hello im daryn jordan in doha with a quick reminder of the headlines on aljazeera u. S. President donald trump a stunning to raam for very fair negotiations that led to a prisoner swap between the 2 countries to iran release chinese american she were one who face spying charges after being detained in iran in 2016 in exchange the u. S. Released iranian scientist massoud saudi money he was arrested at chicago airport last year for violating u. S. Sanctions on iran. But some says the exchange could be a sign a future corporation were very happy to have bought back the old. University community is very true. There was a watershed one. We are. Really i think the great thing and i think great you know that we cant. Write it in. A brick. But we have our heart back were going to get it back. During the obama. We got him back during the drug trade where. North korean state media says the country has just conducted a very significant test of a space satellite launch site hours earlier pyongyang said that denuclearization was off the table in any future talks with the u. S. North koreas ambassador to the u. N. Added that washingtons efforts for ongoing dialogue was solely for its own domestic agenda talks on denuclearization had been largely deadlocked since a summit between donald trump and kim jong un failed in february the u. S. Defense secretary says he cant label a deadly shooting on a u. S. Naval base as terrorism on friday Saudi National Mohammed Saeed al some ronnie shot dead 3 of his fellow students he was later killed by sheriffs investigators are now questioning 10 Saudi Nationals on the base theres been a dramatic escalation of violence in iraq over the last 24 hours on saturday a drone attack targeted an iraqi shia clerics home in the jeff in baghdad more gunfire has been heard after friday nights violence that left at least 23 people dead fighters loyal to libyas u. N. Recognize government say they have shot down a fighter jet belonging to the warlord early for have tal incident reportedly happened in the south of tripoli after us forces have been fighting to take the capital from the internationally recognized government that was the headlines the news continues here on aljazeera after studio b. Unscripted statement that subject by fire. In front if you are working class person youre 50 percent more chance to die before 65 years old the Public Discourse doesnt reflect the struggles that people have its a Propaganda Machine how do you force these people in the governments to change the situation i think we have to give it to them yes there is a way they would change. One thing that we mentioned before we started was a problem that will you cross europe and in the states and that is the rise of the far right will have different experiences in this. And. How the left should respond why the right has risen in the way it has because vox in spain theres a pen in for salvation in it and in italy but so you know english is both numbers ill and theres the Eastern Countries poland is going to have a Big Government and so on and its a huge thing i think because its hiding the interest the big corporations behind a kind of phony nationalism and populism why do you think its risen in france and how should the left respond. There is if i would answer in 2 words hearing. No i think youre absolutely right and that its really frightening in fact in the village where i grew up many people were voting for the far right so i not only i tried to understand it but i experienced it like for my flesh like physically my father was waiting for the far right my own might my mother like my family in general was voting for the far right and the things they would say was always the the left doesnt care about you know anymore they dont talk about it and they would say the far right is the only ones who talk about you know so they only want to address our lives our bodies what we are what we are going through so certainly one of the reasons why the far right is so powerful today is the fact that most of the socalled left the socialist parties around europe like Party Socialist spending germany. Laboring in england say that basically stopped talking about poor people about work about paying about suffering about class about and so they renewed the language and erased these people so many working class people felt that they didnt have a space anymore in the left where they could speak and so they slowly went to the far right i think also one of the one of the maybe more complex things is some. The inability for a certain left to not address very contemporary issues you know to to because we see in your movie the last one so sorry we missed you that the son of the family the young kid is like 15 or 16 years old is revolting against the world is working you know and you see the same thing in from there so many people from from the Younger Generation my brothers and sister are 1920 years old and they are not the same that my father used to be you know for example they dont they dont want to have bosses anymore you know they dont want to have were kids anymore they dont want to have like ours anymore like a strict schedule where they go to work and everything and and for me its wonderful you know for me its a its a its a revolutionary vibe you know people are saying i dont want to boss threatening me humiliating me so like giving me orders and everything and the fact is that most of the left is unable to talk about it and only as a write in the far right say ok we are going to do or we are going to do deliver or we are going to break you know the the work contracts and everything and the left has been unable to try to find a left wing language to that what it means for us if Revenue Generation of people like this young kid in so we re missed you who says i dont want to have a boss anymore it must be the most beautiful thing for us leftwing people and we really need to renew the language of the left dont you think nationally i mean i think the the left really is. With their prime interest was in making certain business worked it was in the interest of the word pass and their security and their income and their work and i think the last point you make inventing and flex is called flexibility here and i feel right when lang we are that way they need to it would work well if its flexible of they say every day that. Working phoned up and say sorry boss im not coming today no reason but i was the one to be paid so it only works in the interest of the employer and i think its its fine when youre young that you have a kind of fairly casual relationship with work but when people have families and they have. Bills they must pay and they do need the securing and he kind of a secure income that youve got a security job because you dont have another system right yeah pretty very build a better system with more welfare and with more you know protection we could imagine a world where where you know we rented out not flexibility but liberty you know here privilege fine i mean maybe in cooperatives or collectives absolutely so that it but theres got to be a coherent steers i think but i think the biggest problem with the left but in our country its identified its interests with the employers. What is very markable here is that the labor party has done 180 degree shift. When coburn was elected leader and now they are talking about the interests of working class people will be talked about rices work like a Health Service that will really you wont have to wait months for an operation and so on social care you know looking after all people. With some dignity everybody you know getting a ways they can actually live on. Investing in those areas that have been neglected which are left wrecked. And they are talking about that now and also about protecting the or trying to mitigate the effects of Climate Change and and turning that around the other problem is the abuse and this means and the lies that are told about someone of the left trying to trying to instigate those changes is very intense so i think thats a big issue but in a sense our agree with me is that we have to find a new language to reinterpret the basic demands that people have meaning and i always have the impression that. You know people like my father was at the same time voting for the far right at the same time saying you know gay people should be killed everything is very violent things against gay people and at the same time when there was a gay man assaulted by a group of other guys in the village my father went there and have that guy yes i dig into to the others you dont touch him or destroy you you know yes and so i always have this feeling that people always of so many different people within same you know and so all these people now vote for the far right and sometimes they like very violent things against gay people against what they call migrants and everything like these people they are authors most abilities of being inside themselves you know and i think you bring that out very well lets see i mean you he said the contradictory impulses in people and i think thats really thats very precisely done in your writing and you know its the same person will be generous and irrationally harsh. And they dont understand why theyre being so brutal but theyre contradictory elements thing their fate to that in a way you want a system that brings the best the best out of people thats why you should build a strong left you will push people to go on the other direction like the the better possibility of being that they have within themselves yes you will drive them to go that way and youre the other way and eventually then the violence will disappear or some hearing like again i think it comes out of security isnt it you know if youre secure you can be gentle. If you will if you are not threatened yourself you can welcome people who are. Who needs help you know whether theyre seeking asylum or for whatever reason or the issues within people in your community if you feel good about yourself then you can be generous if you feel frightened if you feel in danger if you feel hopeless if you feel cynical then you push people away. So how would you interpret the fact that dominion class have the security and theyre not necessarily welcoming because they can then to maintain their security by keeping Everything Else from being here i mean theyre totally ruined thats how they control the empire isnt it you know. By keeping they didnt didnt just people in their place and here it was keeping the working class in this place. They couldnt afford to be generous you know because thats what they wealth depended on but thats why we need a different Cover Society based on equality of brotherhood and liberty. But also of this feeling that its. Its extremely difficult to rebuild when you left in order to fight the right wing rise because i have the impression that today you know way the far right already won the battle you know people always ask me do you think the fowey can win the election the inference and i always answer but they already won you know because they are everywhere because as soon as they Say Something it will be everywhere you know in the media on the front page of all newspapers so you just have to say basically a very stupid racist thing and it would be everywhere it is so there is like a kind of fascination yes for the far right yes absolutely right fear i think absolutely right and i mean and when you are doing left wing things and you are trying to say new things it doesnt have the same effect you know you create a discussion and we are supposed to answer that you know its everywhere on t. V. In the in the newspapers in on the radio you know as the question and you are constantly invited to go in to discuss their issues yes yes exactly but one level is quite simple the process and we have a far right press here most of the press is on the far right so that its the Public Discourse as opposed to whats going on on twitter and facebook i guess is dominated by the writing agenda so the when the left somebody from the left is on they dont take their ideas their theyre to comment on the right wing agenda. And the mechanisms that control is very clear in their press is by identify the same influence with the press is owned by they which toxics. You dont live here they are in the depressed and they tell us what to think i mean one thing we do have to do is have a policy for that to not to defend the freedom of the press to do is stablished the freedom of the press. I think. I mean and. Point is the the left and how we how we regenerate it. Think is that its much more difficult to be left wing than to be right wing you know because precisely the history of the left is full of lies and betrayal of people pretending to be not being left you know when people write things they are really right we hear that. Even if they are worse than they think was the right time but lets open up the conversation again yes absolutely yes because the stead of a few things i have both of your work deals with tend to do with working class protagonist i think among the greatest successes of cares was the fact that we had to start our sick outreach and was a Reference Point to everyone in the seventys everybody sort of knew it we hadnt seen the whole film in europe but if your work can still able to have that same outreach is it still accessible or even with a working class children still be able to know about i dont you play cool or sorry we missed you and i wonder if your work still able to access the sort of working class or middle classes the state in this back in the seventys. I mean i think as an artist you should never take it for granted and you should always try to make this work visible and irritable inaccessible to other people and thats why its a very important as a writer as a director to go in the streets to demonstrate to be part of like Political Organisation to go in different contexts to go to high schools to talk to students and i think its never enough to just do a book or a movie you have i think as an artist a responsibility to try to engage a conversation beyond that what you were talking about which people why they dont care about poor people its because its the interest because they are rich because some people are poor but it was the same way with culture you know some people have called. Because other people dont have culture you know some people have diplomas because other people dont have the plumbers and everything is linked to this kind of primal exclusion so i think if you really want to be a progresses than a leftwing autists you have to try to question that and to try to undo the fact that the very definition of culture is the gap between people who have access to it and people who dont have access to it and and going in the streets writing think texting the media going to to talk like this we people is a way of overcoming it a little bit because the film i mean even to get one casts in their career really lingers on like it did abut the. Last 2 films the weve had what we Call Community screenings where the film can be hired by you know a Community Group or a trade union or a church hall or room above a pub or wherever you can have a quite cheaply. Charge for admission keep the money or give it to a campaign or a charity and it gets to the areas where people would not go to an art house and even if there were one and the there isnt one so and we had nearly 700 Community Screenings or by daniel blake which is ever completely a novel thing you know the films could be shown outside cinemas and it was amazing and with this new one theyre going to try and do the same thing i think you both embodied the answer to this question i think im going to ask you in an age of crisis what do you think is the value of art. Well youve heard it well 1st of all art should be anything it should be what the imagination produces. You know i mean the moment you start saying should be there so it should work in this way or it should you know they then you kill creativity and you end up with stalinists and the last or you end up with told the commercial but i think what we can do if youre lucky enough to make films about a book or whatever it is you can use that you can uphold the principles of how we live you know the great humanitarian values of Equality Fraternity and liberty we can just say look these are the principles of how we should live. I think all twill do better if we if we criticize arts more often you know when for me it was very strange when i arrived in the cultural media completely by accident when i started to write my books i met so many people in cinema or in nutrition or in publishing and they thought that they were progress is the neighbor rolls just because they were dealing with arts and its not enough you know and movies have been excluding poor people i mean including black people being excluded critics reading you know like gay people for so long you know and so when toni morrison. For American Writer wrote beloved in so many other masterpieces when she started to write about black people in the u. S. It was against the mainstream definition of what all should be of what was and e. s and and so i think also we should always challenge the idea that art is good as such you know you do good out if youre andree arts also and sometimes its all can be just a tool that that the butcher is he will use to feel good about himself you know honor you know i do are this i say porter has a point i mean the last thing we want is a picture gallery sponsored by the will. And i think that art has to be sort of the sieve and a youre dead right. If he dont have a level of anger about you then stand him you know. Because youve got to connect him he youve got to connect to the feelings people have and. When the great pillars of vatican politics is juggle and you learn to struggle and you create these jokes and this youre right theres an establishment in literally the military figures in the stablished and in the films and in theater and if youre comfortable exactly and sometimes they are even worth and theyre like the money people because theyre just so sure about they are so sure that they are on the good side forever you know so yes we have to change in the same place you say that i mean i am actually. This is more for edward you spoke a lot about. Making people feel bearable as a means for making them change why that as opposed to inspiring people to change i mean for me its part of the its part of the same thing it drives the same it comes from the same source and its the same energy its because you find something unbearable that you will be in a position where you have to find the inspiration to make the situation more bearable by definition and so i always found that. The most difficult books the most violent books and the most violent movies in the most difficult movies were always the most beautiful you know way because they were showing reality you know they were showing things and it was unbearable but then it creates within you the energy to do Something Else to Something Different and if you think about the gay movement if you think about the feminist movement if you think about the Marxist Movement they were making very sad statements saying we are living in a state of the nation we are living you know as a women you are being subjected to violence and everything and then you. You know you have to you have to change it our world is violent and ugly and you have to show it in order to inspire people to change it because its the way it works its finally you see reality when i see ken movies i think i finally see reality and finally is here and its not Beautiful People are suffering people are going through difficult things but it gives me so much strength your movies are beautiful because they are sad well that yeah. Yeah i mean they. Do deflector easier but i mean there are moments of tenderness in your books which are inspiring i think and theres a gentleness and there are moments of tenderness and thats what is piety i always forget to talk about it but if its true. Anything that theyre going about tenderness. I would like to ask what these like sustainable safe space for minority people for example for cannot thats just a school or they could company like society you think its very complex but for sure we need to. Flip the script and get rid of our i told governments because its not going to happen within these governments you need some very strong policies to create space spaces for people who are threatened like in many different ways that as a as women as as people of color i think we there are so many thing we can invent you know but it will happen only if we change things the idea that everyone is dangerous we need one small safe space is his notes and i mean every space should be so. I think it comes back to security if everyone is to kill and doesnt feel threatened then we are tolerant but its imbedding that into into our daily routine into where people were they. Where they get of a like sation or whatever i love when you talk about security because in france its the 10 like talking about security is that very often like a right wing things because when people talk about if we need security they like theyre really just an army a oh yeah yeah i think its a beautiful thing to put security in the mouth of the effort and to say when we talk about security we dont talk about army we dont talk about police we dont talk about repression we talk about helping people about welfare or about Social Security a political agenda of securities its beautiful on also for the question of minority you know you have. Gender sexual minorities yes you had the question of securities is extremely important and security is a beautiful word yeah yeah i mean it has 2 meanings absolutely. But the since were coming to the end what weve been saying really leads up to i think the fact that we are to such a critical moment now with struggling to find a vatican a progressive way of of living together. And. Youre expressing very clearly and very precisely about what we need is our country in a slide if position to where you are in the usa youre in france and other countries because we do have a mass party of the left that would make big changes the question is whether that will happen a lot and whatever happens in the when the choice is made that we mustnt stop these advances we must give up the possibility of living together collectively you know the words are different. Its kind of political significance in that it it must reflect in the details of how we organize our lives but the the guiding principle is what is the common good i think that people should try to change the situation to go and vote to change its situation i dont i wouldnt talk about common good because in my goodness it is again. A wellness you know so its not so the common good its the good for all of the people who suffer the people who have everything but then but then can we change them having everything so that we we share this we will see. I always looked at him as the volga face of a declining empire i think when we make the decision to stand up for ourselves the powers that be they react we have a deep state that do whatever they want to whoever they want whenever they. From the london. Special guests in conversation. From uninterrupted. Whatever they want to whoever they want whenever they want. For as long as we. Have been. Hello there are very cloudy picture across much of the north of the United States but well this isnt the east would say lead it is good to Clear Conditions and some pretty good play conditions up into toronto in canada look at this a beautiful sky under those criss the blue skies cloud in the for. The rain is pushing in certainly on monday but snow to the north of there quite a bit of the east and that by sunday the next big pacific storm this is actually making headway saturday into sunday meeting quite quickly so really. Cold its a lot of snow thats going to coming down through the rockies and also through the sierra Mountain Range that moves pretty quickly east was through monday leaving us with a good start to the week dry. And that is a very unsettled eastern half of the United States pushing into Eastern Canada and look at this time. A drop of 10 degrees in just 24 hours in about 10 degrees below the average but very unsettled generally around the great lakes and of course some rain and then across the caribbean weve got not a bad day on sunday some rain showers fairly heavy across Central America and then through monday into the windward islands. On counting the cost 48. 00 trillion dollars to save the planet can call the trading bring big polluters to heel Silicon Valley and the algorithms that discriminate against women and people of color plus putin shown by the west completes his pivot to the east counting the cost on aljazeera. This is aljazeera. Hello im don jordan this is the out as they were news hour live from coming up in the next 60 minutes. Really i think the great thing and i think great show that we can. Find it is. A precursor to what it does read words of kindness about iran from u. S. President donald trump off of the 2 Countries Exchange prisoners. 10 Saudi Nationals are questioned over the deadly shooting at a u. S. Naval base as new information about the gunman is really