Turkish involvement in libya deepens as ankara moves to support the internationally recognized government militarily but will that intensify the conflict he says its and this is inside story. Hello and welcome to the show im sam hes a than turkey is considering all kinds of military backing for libya that includes ground marine and air support if necessary president raja to do and also said hes ready to deploy troops if the internationally recognized government of libya formally requests help the government of National Accord or g. N. A. T. Has been fighting an offensive by rebel forces to unseat Prime Minister face assad raj since april warlord Khalifa Haftar announced his final push to seize the capital earlier this month his forces extended to wednesday a deadline for progovernment forces to withdraw or the ones announcement came after have to forces seized a grenade or flagged ship with turkish crew offer that he and coast the vessel and crew have now been released though after us forces have threatened to retaliate. While i take this opportunity to keep a warning to Aerospace Companies working to transport military equipment using civilian air plus abusing its civilian houses and thinking that it is under the protection of rules of International Law who have confirmed to monitor the movement of her sister when flights from istanbul to libya the Libyan National army forces gives a clear and honest warning to all Aerospace Companies our air forces will not hesitate to down or strike in civil and airplanes transporting military equipment to leave us airports. Well turkey and the jna signed security agreements last month under those deals ankara agreed to give training and equipment to the Libyan Military and supply a Quick Reaction force of tripoli asked for it a separate agreement on maritime boundaries was also signed and that angered greece and raise concerns among several mediterranean countries tensions have already been running high between athens and ankara over drilling for natural gas off the coast of the Divided Island of cyprus greece says the accord violates International Law turkey rejects that accusation saying its protecting its rights in the Eastern Mediterranean now libyas warring sides are backed by Different Countries which provide them with military supplies despite a u. N. Arms embargo the United Nations recognize government led by Prime Minister phase assad raj is backed by most western nations as well as qatar and turkey the government of National Accord or d. N. A. As weve mentioned is based in the capital tripoli thats in the west now in the east of libya the parliament based in taba rock is holy for half the center of power he supported by egypt saudi arabia the United Arab Emirates and france he gets military equipment from different sides Russian Private Security Forces from the wagner group have allegedly been fighting alongside huffed as forces thank you and lets bring our guests into the show we have Samuel Arthur our show political activist and International Lawyer he joins us from tripoli use of a lot of there is an International Security and politics specialist and retired Turkish Armed forces colonel he joins us from ankara and the far booed is executive director at the Nordic Center for conflict transformation he joins us from paris welcome to you all if i could start with the use of how far do you think anchor is willing to go yusuf in assisting the u. N. Recognize government in tripoli. As far as the republic government once request assistance from the turkey turkey including even brown dress do you think its. A no no because for sending the Ground Troops it requires an other result which should pass from the Turkish Parliament but the Turkish Parliament so far has ratified as an agreement on it technical as assistance to the. Polit government but if it requires if the circumstances inside libya gets very complicated because there are too many interventions inside libya including france russia turkey egypt United Arab Emirate if it things got was very complicated probably turkey may brink the issue to the parliament for sending troops so its possible interesting says our guest from ankara to see perhaps turkish troops in libya lets bring in norful if we can will it intensified turkish role help bring a close to this conflict or is it going to inflame it more do you think norful yes 1st of all we have to see to say that somehow the grounds action and reaction towards supporting the jna actually is mirroring the way put in is supporting after troops. We have to. Say basically that while russia is supporting the have their troops through. Wagners company which is very much now present in many countries not only in in libya also in south africa republic it was in syria and there is even talks and they come to my space to to mind that it is not considered to be present in mali if they are not already. The difference between the support of turkey to the jna and the supports of russian others to the have to is that russia stays invisible within this support wired turkey chose to be visible and to support the internationally recognized government of the jna. So does basically the 2 differences there are ok but my question is how is it going to empower not only already going on in libya now. Its very much important the intervention and the support of the of turkey because it will most likely change the balance of power. In the conflict 1st of all if the front lines stalemate the air it is not knowing that they have terror groups have a little bit more advantage on the arab side with the drones that are like the un reports have confirmed that actually there are chinese made drones that were supplemented by other countries so but it will be shifting a little bit the balance in the conflict for now or a shift in the balance sami do you think we could see Turkish Forces turkish advises whatever level of support does emerge from turkey entering into a clash with other foreign powers in libya. Yes 1st with afternoon to you and to your guests. And i wish you all the best this conversation taking us now i think it is about time really that especially in the absence of the International Role really according to the National Rules their absence of disability really to condemn the invasion of the military to the concepts of democracy in libya i think it is about time that. The bowers or the other states which believe it also values. Assessed the libyan nation and was acting their nation and their values and freedoms which they fought form a long long time and the double in 2011 so. Very happy to see that. The world some states which is prepared really to own out of their right that is a sense of i dont many of course are supporters of the internationally recognized and un banks government would would express further in the east you have those forces with a very different take on the situation in libya and im just wondering whether you think were going to see turkey enter into more of a direct clash and confrontation not only with relief to have to now but with some of his backers expected. That yes we do expect that. And we feel that without serious intervention to balance the struggle really is unfair a struggle seen by the International Community and i mean the United Nations and Security Council and other states which they supposed to be really taking proper stand and black and white clear violation which is taking place since 2012 actually and. Steve 1415 and so on till 442019 we have became very blight that it is a really serious invasion serious attack on Democratic Values which all the war who have shared the political agreement side on 1712th 2015 have really clearly expressed so in the absence of all this we feel that the turkish should really after this agreement in a serious way and that can really develop to more of a physical presence in the libyan capital and on the suburbs of alright let me bring go back to no 4 briefly before i go back to use of in touch on a point which you raised in an ask the question of how precarious is the governments hold on tripoli right now we weve seen a stand for a very long time but recently however have to us forces were able to seize a neighborhood of tripoli right exactly where the g. N. A. S. Is little bit is quite weak its a government with no military forces there was some kind of agreement among some militias in the conference in morocco a long time ago but in terms of the military forces its a perk air kind of of government the the support of the do you think it could collapse and the agreement that it has signed by. Sorry do you think this government could collapse is it that precarious. I did not say yeah its a kind of military is a quite weak and in need of support and he has requested the support of the military and that signal somehow that the that can a government discovered in a is a little bit think in that it is at a particular position. In relation to invisibly the power of the have that there is a gain in continuously and that demonstrates why it requested the support from turkey and the. Disposition of the agreement are very very important to be able to explain the future and if turkey will be. Intervene in a military really in in the country or not the same way it did in syria the agreement is basically has several points and in summary it relates to the consultation to trains to the supply of equipment but it has one point of it that says that the d. N. A. Can request. On the ground aid from turkey which it doesnt happen yet ok i do not think if we were thinking about whether it would be a military intervention from turkey or not i would not think that turkey is thinking at this present moment of any air strikes one that is a religious tical kind of difficulty for turkey to korea that because the air bases are quite not close enough to carry out air strikes discreetly. And the 2nd thing the g. N. A. T. Did not request the on the ground. Presence by terence also serve yet alas there are slowing in a very good boards as well use of from ankara basically or so he signed up to be the guardian and savior of the tripoli government can they prevent the tripoli government from losing any more ground to hostile your probably the turkish support is. In order to keep in power the government of National Accord is very important from the perspective of the Turkish Security interests but let me also remind you that the un backed government inside the tripoli also should be supported by the all countries because that is the country that is the government already u. S. Backed government of usually inside libya for this reason if the turkeys a force. Enough to keep it in the power it is very important for the self interest of the turkey but at the same time it is to the interest of the europe because if the tripoli government. All were drawn by the award after probably a need internal clashes gain increase and that means a refugee crisis that europe may increase or set the same time the 2nd issue is that the energy security. Will be needed than your if the triple a government is or were drawn by the holy perhaps there for the season i do believe that turkey will try to keep empowered the triple a government the military and Technical Support and it will be enough from my point of perspective but if the government is under the fire of the waratah after gets worse than the 2nd phase may come. Air to the stage or from perhaps the perspective of the d. N. A. Let me ask which is that i should point out the acronyms because they can get a little bit confusing in libya are talking im talking about the internationally recognized un backed government now sami from the perspective of that international recognize government is the turkish support about defeating hafter or simply pushing the rebel forces back far enough that they have to come to the negotiating table. Well its a good question actually but i think the dilemma here is whether the International Community and any bow out of any country which want to support the libyan have to be a really. Modern also legal ground and we feel that argument which is just the president by your guest. From turkey mr yousef was very sound one that it is a responsibility for us to afford for them to mess you know community really to sub or i mean the National Accord government not only that but also to put an end to the military attempt violation. To the state in libya which is civil and democratic states or we are talking about the reality is sami of course as you know beyond lip service most International Powers are not really providing much other support to the aaa gulf as of right yes that is how so will the g. N. A. T. Here see all right you know will the tripoli government do you think it really believes now with turkey support is going to be able to defeat hafter or will the strategy be simply to inflict much of a loss to be negotiated the end of the day no no no no no no you cannot negotiate there is no Common Ground really between the 2 camps the camp of freedom and democracy and civil state cannot really fight any get out with a military dictator who want to govern the libyan their country ok uncle provides them already it is that we have let me take this question back and he also got say what we are saying is that if i may i love me just for a 2nd please ok go ahead very briefly. Yes i think it is a black and white the issue is very clear we have already National International agreement signed accepted also by the United Nation which is the. Agreement side 117122015 sets the rules of what country should be and was the mc it is ok for reforming this country in the region hold it let me bring you some of the nation in back into the discussion use of countries dont usually intervene obviously in other parts of the world simply for altruistic reasons right they have some benefits or some interests in that region whats at stake for turkey is it really about simply about saving the International Legitimacy of this government or also about saving some of turkeys interests in the Eastern Mediterranean especially when it comes to maritime issues and and gas reserves for bot we cant say for what because the all the shapes and all the board of sort the middle east is changing now as you can see inside syria inside libya inside the maritime borders for this is that i cannot say that the only concern that turkey concerns about is not the libyan nation or government of a court but also at the same time turkey is pushing this issue because often its south interests inside the mediterranean because there is a fait accompli inside the eastern part of the mediterranean in between the United Arab Emirates griese cypriots and egypt and turkey is being confined to a similar plan which conflicts turkey to a very limited part of the mediterranean but at the same time libya has cannot approach the scene you simply cant turkey carve out a wider area for its own interests. Bilaterally between itself and libya against the wishes perhaps of egypt israel or greece cyprus and so on yes there that is diplomacy. Which will give turkey a chance because turkey is already drilling in it is economy exclusive zones based at the same time greece and the cypriots at the same time declared that place as they economy calls on for this reason turkey has no problem israel turkey has no problem with the egypt in terms of economy collects clues of songs in his problems is bitty greek site and if the cyprus site saw what turkey or forced to the egypt but turkey offers to the israelis very important if they sign a deal the turkey the area that egypt will gain is more than 30000 square kilometers for this isnt even the City Government will never accept this the people off the streets on the kyra should understand that the lands in the economy called zones are being sought to be a greek site for this is an i believe that turkey is pressing to do a field bit it is military if it is the relink bit also the diplomacy that he signed an agreement between libya let me remind that after turkey signed the agreement memorandum of understanding with the libya nation or government of a court immediately is sidle make a declaration that he is stopping all it is facile it is together with disappearance in the border of the economy exclusive zone because this separate says a maximalist policy toward the zionists economy exclusive zonks why is that i set decoration like this because he understood also that turkey is very dedicated to protect his rights not on the ground but also at the maritime areas or i believe that the diplomacy be the result of the issue. Let me bring norful in whats happening to the u. S. Position the u. S. Seems to be somewhere between with drawl and confusion officially the us is supposed to be supporting the internationally recognized government but we saw the scenes of her going and meeting with senior trumpet ministration officials and statements from the white house expressing support for hafter. Yes i think the issue of libya now that the u. S. Politics is not a priority even though considering that has or has a dual citizenship is really an american to my knowledge. The the issue that i would like to bring in is that we keep talking about the component of this crisis and there is one component of the crisis that we dont talk about which is actually the libyan people who are actually leaving the country to migrate elsewhere or we win their stay in libya no matter what how the diplomatic. Talks and the relationships and the priorities and the dynamics at the regional level the dynamics in north africa the dynamics in the Mediterranean Region we are still talking about the dynamic of crisis and we are not considering the lives of the people who are leaving the country or stay in in grief in the country at the diplomatic with probably address the symptoms of the crisis but they are not going to resolve the deep rooted. Causes of the conflicts the deep root cause of the conflict in this country and we have learned from many many many other countries that made it or interventions been agreed diplomatically or not are not going to resolve it we have the example of syria iraq and other countries it is only when people sense down and consider the past right hauke about what has happened how we can learn from the past and move on a diplomatic solution and on we have about a while i think the right even if i made the sami very briefly sami at the end of the day is that we are going to 20 some kind of serious an area with to a lot of powers playing a role but 2 powers influence ascending russia and turkey and will ultimately come down to an understanding between those 2 powers. Well i think i mean there is no similarity at all between the Syrian Crisis and the libyan crisis while the Syrian Crisis is a starting point i mean they were really trying to. Make that evolution of evolution successful but they failed really to. To take off that is currently a bow of wind in libya we have fed is this since 2011 and we are trying to lead to face a new attempt. As a military or the job that libya so for a start i mean we are in completely different conversation here between the 2 situation but however and i think its still the city oration very clear this is our intervention our community to really try to do is to put an end to this double standard that was at the best political book or see we will lead nowhere but more obstacles and right all called libya a lot of the old. Spring United States finally i would just say if you allow me United States have really just we are running out of time. Ok yes please i think that the United States have to blame or positive all of our role all right well see if its time to bring that theres an hour frayed we are out of time lets thank our guests very much use of sammy and norful and thank you too for watching you can see the show again any time by visiting our website aljazeera dot com and for further discussion head over to our Facebook Page thats facebook dot com ford slash a. J. Inside story can also join the conversation on twitter our handle is at a. J. Inside story from me sam is a van and the whole team here and ill just go by. My. What happens when cans for a new life are brewed and de railed by committing serious crimes from Drug Trafficking to remembering. What it i dont remember how many times it stopped there the way her boyfriend spoke to me and even her aljazeera world goes inside an italian prison meeting men and women from north africa who left home only to face life behind mas double exile on aljazeera. A University Degree to be a doctor or a teacher but without any study or examples one on one east investigates the Pakistani Company at legibly selling fake degrades to the thousands of police around the world on aljazeera. This is aljazeera. This is the new selloff dog coming up in the next 60 minutes. Syrian troops targeted the provinces to fight for the last rebel held area intensifies sending feltons fleeing for their lives. Were getting word that libyas u. N. Recognized government is off to a key to deploy troops to fight against board belief after. A low i maryanne demasi
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