The reason for the arrest of democracy leaders in hong kong. To face court as more concerns are raised about the city. This story. Hello welcome to the program. The coronavirus pandemic has interrupted the antigovernment protests that gripped hong kong for much of last year but the tension that triggered the unrest hasnt gone away nor have the fears the beijing is eroding freedoms that were guaranteed in the 199700. 00 from british rule in the latest Crackdown Police arrested 15 leading activists and accused them of organizing unlawful protests last year they include politicians and media tycoon and martin lee known as hong kongs father of democracy their supporters say the arrest of chinas latest attempt to silence the prodemocracy protest movement aljazeera is divya a pollen reports from hong kong. There has been much International Interest and what is happening here in hong kong or the u. K. And the u. S. Government have questioned the validity of these arrests particularly mentioning martin leno he has is very well known both in the International Community and of course here in hong kong and very well respected not just amongst the democracy camp but also among people who support beijing he has said that he doesnt believe our he doesnt blame the Hong Kong Government for his arrest he says that he believes its beijing that is behind the directive to round up these a prominent prodemocracy activists he also says that this is all part of the communist party trying to tighten its control on hong kong now as far as we action from the probating camp here that has been mostly muted there mostly just echoed what the Hong Kong Government has said mainly being that this is all being done in accordance to the law and this is not politically motivated but i must mention quite an Interesting Development now that Chinese State media has mentioned the arrest of all these prominent people on the microblogging site that way both the Chinese Government doesnt usually like any kind of discussion on how constant mock received Democracy Movements or anyone to do with democracy in hong kong but they seem to have allowed much chatter about this and predictably the kind of comments were seeing are mainly from people who support the arrests who are calling for greater restrictions on hong kong and also are calling for greater support of hong kongs police the arrests follow remarkable comments by the Chinese Governments 2 main agencies in the territory the hong kong and Macau Affairs office denounced prodemocracy politicians the stolen proceedings in the Legislative Council and Beijings Liaison Office said its not bound by a clause in the mini constitution that the boss of direct interference in the citys fast after issuing contradictory statements on kongs government eventually supported Mainland Chinas position. Lets introduce the panel and in hong kong we have martin lee the founding chairman of the Democratic Party of hong kong and a former legislative counsel and a barrister in chinas Capital Beijing and the moc Senior Research fellow at the center for china and globalization and in singapore victor teo assistant professor at the affiliated affiliated faculty with the China Studies Program at the university of hong kong welcome to you all martin lee 1st of all why these arrests now whats the timing significance and why people like you. Margaret the all school if you like of the Democracy Movement not the younger activists that have been arrested previously when im sure they dont like us. They serve and. You know the whole. You know the former chairman of my homepage to. Keep the 3 of us together that instant chain the former chief secretary. It been implicated istic a more thoughtful and to see men 3 male members of the game of who are now charged together but to the left of. The moon bill are clearly going to start very repression and. They want to. Do so a few years back because in june 240 the Central Government published a white paper in symon different name which is. A single government has come true. Or wrong. Now compare that to the actual pains 122 systems in 1984 where bieber to it would be one country 2 systems are people really hong kong with a high degree of autonomy which means except for a fiercely defense of his own home with a 1000 interviews he helps. To did he. Get to be the ones to implement his new part here. Do one country 2 systems a Central Government ruling with comprehensive jurisdiction no this is a totally different concept. Please is it im living on the road to read this please the moment you can tell us please do you can see everything now which is happening in hong kong goes in depth of action which is a departure from the blue print stepped out on conference give this a 23rd year in beijing who really wants to. And comprehension who are and its a problem and democracy do you see that are is the Central Government taking off the globe sunnys now prepared for a much more robust intervention in the governing of hong kong. Well i think we are we. Any government is concerned about whats going on certainly in the last year with whatever we want all we want read that clearly serve for the people all as a factor in why or why before the courts. We want limits in china as well i would like to know too that you know i think morn makes a good point that there have been certainly. Well i think its important to recognize to new yorks 20 plus years. And any Legal Framework i think we need to back to. The word or concept here is National Security and you know a year or 2 years ago we might a lot of thought of health care and Public Health issues as a National Security issue but today i think the feeling was very different because the world. So on the one hand i think to consider rigid adherence to. A strict interpretation that one wouldnt find that never choose mining law and necessarily the most we will see i think the framework of one of these 2 schools one country 2 systems in very much in place and if your child victor wasnt supposed to be like this was it wasnt home kong supposed to be able to look after his own a fast for 50 years or are we seeing a remodelling of the one country 2 systems idea. I you know personally id been thing as a remolding of the one country 2 systems idea i think its an adjustment so i tend to kind of agree with what andy has just said. Hong kong is you know 2223 years into this new era and i think local realities have changed mainland Chinese Development have haste and i think from beijing split spec if they are very worried about a couple of things and one of the things is to perceive linking up off the young proDemocracy Movement weve falsus perceived to be hostile to china. So this is from the beijings perspective and i think the. Trying to get best to not change the system but at the same time to ensure that chinese interests are looked after and that hong kong does not actually become a best you know and the chinese activities. In the open apps in them you know tom so this is one of the reasons why the so keen to assert the sovereignty of. China over hong kong so in other words what the chinese are actually doing today is to remind people that the one country comes before that the system and its not going to be a situation whereby hong kong is going to be another taiwan where they have. The jewel you know defacto if you like a new pendants. So but equally in september because we are seeing the Legislative Council elections and also this is leading up to the Us Democratic us elections i think beijing is very apprehensive for what what might actually develop come this summer so they are exposed trying to. Assert. Some sort of control over the situation in Hong Kong Martin do you need to get that or the you got that idea as well as beijing so worried about what it sees from the present the threat of the protests in hong kong the existential threat of that but its worth cracking down on them even at the risk of international condemnation. Well youre going to go back a few years had turned on all the promises enshrined in this new british joint declaration and the basic law none of this problems none of them would have happened if china had allowed our completive democracy as promised britain and the basic law which is that during the 1st 10 years of the handover i would give then a democracy but universal suffrage is defined to go that can be achieved in 10 years time from the 30. First bombs the 2nd is that china will not interfere in hong kong into business now if you try and cheer him to those promises i can tell you none of this none of these disturbances were happening on our own people going to have been trying to book both of these media promises and wanted them no tell the whole world our basic courses required in hong kong and now completely change the why dont you guys learned about it why are you guys not speaking on that why should the International Community though when they were lobbying for him to for supporting the joint declaration of 26 of september 900 people when it was 1st announced to the world i was surprised at the time why did the Us Government need it or silicon and his government so many government in europe actually. Ordered it just because china and britain lobbied for International Support very diligently asking them to come on stop them openly and strongly for fear that the emigration title would continue in many groups who are then are who they are for mechanism or what if you only know what they did or we were happy you were asked as a supporter when continues isnt. The shell game and we give you the support we continue to support one country 2 systems ulla and show people why do you change it. And why did you cry seek out rightness you know we. Normally. Do you know. And this is the 3rd and i dont know. Martin we thank you much on the mark about a lot of it isnt it the Central Government ignore the aspirations of the people of hong kong they were promised they could elect their leader by universal suffrage there were many excuses introduced and its never going to happen now beijing hasnt recognized what the people of hong kong want. Well im not sure i mean we you know that i think that were well more. Mature than you might work we believe. But i think that whatever point in the past weve got to look at this form of wallet that were getting that is not this which by the end of the watch will a regional issue but we look at who will. More or. I think the u. S. Small minded and were trying to be able. To see us still want to want just to think we want to hold out to the existential. Issue that of course just before you step into the white house mattias. Of this move or this or this is off for one year. We look at it from that broader view were going to. You know i think clearly. The white walls want to say we will see if we can read it back to looking for ways to form those all honor as the shower is for you all around the world so im not so sure that well certainly we are saying martin is more reasonable. The satisfied with the situation but this is very close for these dogs or people with more extreme i think people more usually to sign it. So i think that whatever works for what its done in the past year soon will lead to cities of commission or omission still think youre anywhere you arent just. Looking to score. Victor the basic law was adopted by the National Peoples congress 30 years ago now the world is very different is more polarized world politically whether its trumps america britain victor or pounds hungary so is it harder for the ideals of a one country 2 systems system to survive in this defo to a different world. You know i i dont think so i think ive lived in on going for about 12 years now and of and before that i was living in u. K. For most a decade and i can tell you that i few for most part very free in hong kong i think the real problem is the question of power sharing with the democrats and this is what i think that the democratic camp is so d angry about for most part hong kong people are pretty much free to do what they want to in fact i think they have a lot more freedoms than their competitors on mainland and therein lies the problem beijing beijing has. Beijings has a political problem because on one hand it is trying to maintain the one country 2 system in hong kong and that the hong kong system runs itself and on the other hand its trying to control things on the mainland but everybody whether you meant lan or in hong kong are chinese citizens so this disparity is becoming. Is presenting problems for governance in china to a large extent. The freedom that has been accorded to hong kong people has any but then to go on the streets to protest every year and of course the all its not just the wall that is watching its also the people in Mainland China that watching so you can understand how this might actually cause some concerns in china regarding the repercussions or if you like the following d effects for political governance in Mainland China itself. Right now hong kong is still very valuable to Mainland China. Perhaps not as valuable d as one would as it once was 25 years ago but nonetheless hong kong is very valuable part of china so i believe that the men then thirtys are very keen to preserve d the system that have built up in hong kong as a way forward what i think the mainland authorities are frustrated. We have is the perceived political bickering that has been going on between the different camps and i think the are not really sure what might be the way forward the also not sure d as to how. Perhaps even more for you to go how the future might actually play out what they actually really concerned about is the propensity of the perhaps the democratic camp to declare or edge to its independence i think this is this is the real concern behind all these things that are being done in Hong Kong Martin lee you were involved certainly in the early stages of the drafting of the basic law did you for see these challenges than and can the basic law withstand the pressure that it seems to be under now. Well i just said it time openly that one country 2 systems can work in very difficult but there were true sure conditions to buy into a Condition One is hamas a democracy again in democracy and that are killing executive as well as all members of the legislature would be elected by the people too they will find it in this society for their own sick to defend our system whenever there is any conflict of interest between mainland and hong kong otherwise they lose the next elections thats a 1st the 2nd thing is beijing must not interfere with our internal affairs more these are written into the basic law therefore it could work but if bijan had actually i dont know that to depend on the pushing this already democracy then the democrats would have the majority in the Legislative Council and media would run hong kong as her firm in that we think you are i have never never the room with an open. Mind and rethink your the 1st paragraph says the homecoming isnt in the book part of china the independences are but one country 2 systems please and the one country was already there for the 1st july and in 97 when the british let him down in the chinese there were not thats one country but the 2 systems they should be kept apart that wasnt probably is ok neither british knowledge chinese ship 100 car for 50 years your life on how people should run that arent equal autonomy arent give us democracy do interfere how come were fine please but no they wont. Still dont please please dont just defend china look at how come we were not asking for anything more than what was already promised and written into chinas own basic law for. I am not asking for anything else ive already said no it depends but give us one country 2 systems as promised nothing more. Nothing less. One of the puzzling things is that the Central Government beijing it was understood wanted to use one country 2 systems to show taiwan how it could work and taiwan the people of taiwan must be looking at whats happening happening a homecoming now and saying look we told you it can never work theres no democracy than now in hong kong so where is the Central Government bothered about what thai and china sees happening in hong kong what taiwan sees is happening in hong kong or i think certainly at one point in or and. That was an uncertain one were both. Are we need of the issue. For a while on the hour but i think also that the so what will. I think sadly it will recognize that. There ought to be waves or especially will. So again when you look at this was of course i think it was all. When in when when we sat there since using this model we. Were then directly. To iraq also or for example that i well question as well were clearly one of yours or the world or quotables or intellectual or i one was chosen well so were nor are was approached for war. Of course there are voices and i won that are very much against. Ending war. Sure. Sure it will but on the other hand. We will they are possible we are in a civil war it will remove work. Im not sure what. Remains the civil war of the one thing that is march it is the acts that will. Are all of which means one who will see this law. And victor to you as well whats happening in hong kong must make people in taiwan was but the likelihood of any sort of strengthening of ties between china and Hong Kong China and taiwan even more remote than they were before. Well i i think so unless. The tone of the politics in taiwan changes but i think its going to be unlikely unless the. Town manages to get some really attractive candidates having said that i think in hong kong is possible for the one system one country 2 systems to function really well and i think the ball is in both the Democratic Partys movements can call right now in the Upcoming Elections if the Democratic Party can actually be some sort of concern for beijings 6 National Security agenda and if the Democratic Party can link hong kongs democrats eyes ation from the National Security concerns meaning they can do they can say that they want political accountability they want to have the suffrage but if they do not. Make it make such strong linkages with the United States particularly u. S. Congress particularly getting members of u. K. U. S. Political establishment to attack china and the companies and the Chinese Statements i think and exegete the reason reasonable amount of political willingness to work with. The protest abolition camp i think the hong kong politics in hong kong can take a very positive tone if only both camps do not make their public so. If you like. Ok unfortunately. Im very sorry matson late i have to say thanks to all of. The mark. And to thank you to watching you can see the program again any time by visiting our website aljazeera dot com for further discussion go to our Facebook Page facebook dot com forward slash a. J. Inside story you can also join the conversation on twitter. A. J. Inside story. And the whole. Understand the differences and similarities of cultures across the world so no matter how you take it well bring you the news and Current Affairs that matter to you. Al jazeera. And. Nic like in doha the top stories here on aljazeera and the number of People Killed by coronavirus across the United States has exceeded 40000 new york state accounts for nearly half of the fatal a tease but its reported another drop in daily deaths on saturday the British Government has rejected accusations it was complacent and botched its handling of the pandemic the sunday Times Newspaper says that the Prime MinisterBoris Johnson missed several early emergency meetings in the build up to the crisis well brennan reports now from london the accusations of complacency a misjudgment to spread across 4 pages the headline a damning assessment of government failure to prepare the quotes alleged 5 weeks of missed opportunities in political in nashua