Hi anthony ok welcome to the stream today we look at lebanon with a very straightforward question can lebanon recover from its recent economic recession not a straightforward answer that because things to contend with a coronavirus lock down fuel inflation people going hungry people have a new limited amount of money to spend on basic groceries and then on top of that im tea government protests if you are already joining us on you cheap you have something to add to this you have a question for i guess jumping to the ichi chat and you can be part of this conversation i want to introduce our guest there be dealing with a lot of your questions and your concerns hi there karim its good to have you here on the stream tell everybody who you are. Hi thanks for having me im a journalist for the public source of the nonresident fellow that you destitute welcome to the stream raft good to see you tell everybody who you are as a man in missouri and been an active sort as terrorist i was 17 and im vern but speaking in organizing defense put us over the past 2 years as are the editors just and off. Thank you for joining us and tomorrow its good to have you back in the sting remind people who you are. Im the. Online correspondent based in beirut basically covering all things lebanon from the streets to you know politics and finance and business you know just get this conversation started chemo was on the screen back in october of 2019 this is how we look time and cant my laptop i just screen grabs. And you know he leapt. To mystique even a slight smile that made me happy printing so happening you when he asked. How do you make the right move. Well yeah i mean that was i think after a week of sort of exhaustively covering protests on the streets but as you said i mean it was an extremely sort of a mistake moment. And i think its not you know that was about 6 or 7 months ago and i think its worth sort of having a small account of whats happened since weve gone from that you know explosive moments of unity on the streets and the man on really unprecedented you know over a 1000000 people together across the country which very quickly however was sort of tainted by the economic crisis people are really being pushed to focus on their basic needs and then of course in the you know february we had our 1st coronavirus case and went into a lockdown on march 15th im so i mean its been an incredible 6 months in this country for everybody here normal life has been completely upturns whether it be you know whether its protests economic crisis or or coronavirus and and so its a day i mean where and where in a very different place id say a lot of that positivity a lot of that feeling of were really going to somewhere you know were going to to change i think today we see that it wasnt really we havent gotten to the change that we want yet if you talk to the people on the streets thats what ill tell you. Im going to show you something which im sure youve seen already but for the for the benefit of our audience in video that went via. Iroh 11 on have a look here on my laptop i want you to see who posted it 1st of all abashed new dean a one of the people who shared the video and i just want you to look here so the lady and a gentleman the lady is pregnant the gentleman and the lady are eating out of the dustbin and this was circulated widely because in lebanon trying to eat and getting food for a big chunk of the population is very very serious right now can you explain why anyone would need to do that in lebanon today. Yeah you know i see i think that this video speaks volumes about the extent of the economic crisis in lebanon lebanon is generally considered to be a middle income country and when we reach a point where food is no longer affordable and that we have a Food Security crisis on our hands this really sounds some serious alarm bells let on imports a lot and uneasy us dollars to do so but the u. S. Dollar shortage has caused an import crisis which has been going on since october and the lebanese government has struggled to resolve it its asked the International Community regional countries European Countries the United States and china if they could help out and there has been no help whatsoever and you know you factor in the fact that all these borders arkells and because of the covert 1000 outbreak and things are successful food prices have skyrocketed the government has struggled to maintain the extent of the inflation ive spoken to people who have said thats off by about 60 percent and some of us out of these even in tripoli which is our 2nd largest city is distributing coupons for supermarkets if you can buy food and i remember a Government Official and the municipal government there said that people are fighting over these coupons this is a serious concern which should indicate 6 out there are you know are poverty unemployment that is only going to get worse especially in the short term unless are significant structural changes to our economy to make sure that they kind of you know theres a uter for for this kind of development. You are protesting the gang. You out in the streets who are in if i was not down youre out protesting. In the streets why why you out again. I think people just like at 1st up with this position especially that the government right now is that they can get any serious. Serious action whether to economic crisis or to even phased the course on a crisis. The government has to be there. Because even right now were talking about getting a loan from i am and increasing the left as well so i think people are on the street saying that the danger of going or not is not serious and is not before then the danger of actually starving to death so this is like on the streets again because if you dont die ill just go on over again ive been dying out of like access to healthcare out of having access to floored. By being kicked out of our houses because people are losing their jobs because the they threatened. Or the government is talking about. Getting more laws and not actually destruction in there that are making serious investments in the lebanese economy to be like more productive and sustainable to really face the crisis better. Deal i know youve got so we want to let me go viacom and get his assistant professor of Public Administration to the American University of beirut when a player comment on the streaming just come off the back of it tomorrow. Weve seen a definite return to the streets to protest also to organizing new political platforms in the north because the structural problems havent changed since before and to call it out of a kind of the not corruption rampant clan to this in many deteriorating socio economic. Conditions its pushing people to take back to the streets i think the only hope that lebanon has is that the revolution continues and is able to institutionalize a new political channels that really can change the existing political elite to have a field since the civil war to make any demands to meet citizens needs. Like an its not a case all around will you be the 1st. Death so i think its very important here to set a few things straight 1st of all we had a Political Class that has been in power for 30 years since the end of the civil war all the years unsustainable all those 2 years mismanagement and corruption have led us to where we are today and where are we today if youre the average lebanese person today in the past 6 months youve seen your salary either completely vanished because youve been laid off tens of thousands have been laid off or your salary has been slashed in half because business just cant sustain you know the same level of employment what does that mean that if you have you know hostile or its you would think thats pretty bad but she has also depreciated by 60 percent salary you know say 50. 00 on 100. 00 and effectively today its worth about 100. 00. Got salary to the store things have increased in price by 30 to 50 percent so its a complete nightmare scenario and theres no social safety net because for years that when the state has been all about you know theres no health care or theres no unemployment compensation. People used. To loyalty to parties but even parties today are struggling to do that and so i mean it has a very real facts the murder has gone up by over 100 percent in the 1st 4 months of this year. You know staffs of cars and other burglaries are between 20 and 50 percent off and the 1st 4 months and basically the point is that the new government that has come into power has shown over the past 3 or 4 months that it is unable to take independence technocratic decisions and even though it calls itself in the next government because i mean time and again we see whether its the independence of the judiciary or whether it be capital controls whether it be very simple things they are polled away from the cabinet table by the 5 or 6 men and that is why this new government that the old who went away you know that the same government you know basically the government from the government as an affront for political or economic to improve politics much change and thats what youre hearing on the streets. She that we have this is the government that promised so much this is the government it came on the back of the october revolution im also looking at you out here in the streets look at the half protesting here this is coronavirus pandemic new have a lot down and you are here look youve got the monsoon some people you are not social distancing you some peace is so important that you are willing to risk your house the house of commons. Yes because one of the government was that using the lockdown and our inability to move our need to pass some laws our own. To and to get out of the to do raids over the house of activist and jaded them that have been torturing of different activists. So this is not something that we should. Let go and this picture actually it was they are the killing of. Of oil for was who was watching who was killed by the army in the triple each because they were protesting against the economy so when you have someone who is skilled. Of course were not going to say that that afraid of many people but its either we die out of hunger. Just like. Not a king of the right in our hands and not also mentioned that the banks just like going on with their measures that. People have deposits and that we dont have access to our money was on. A thing that weve been working on we dont have access to our salaries we dont have lots of the dollars anymore or people were attacking the banks they were burning them down. So of course were going to be in the streets because that increasing violence even of just technocrat government that we do not believe and this stigma grab government just believe that they are at the end because they have destroyed that sense of that but thats the reason as you can see right now they have been at tacking. So being on the streets not much what is important in mind that the revolution is going on there now or later were not going to stop. Karim what is the Current Administration doing to try and get out of that economic recession knowing that the coronavirus pandemic is happening i know lots of people cant work. No safety net for people who are extremely vulnerable what are you seeing with us in what i see were doing here theyve got a Financial Strategy. So when. Primus and deb scott and it you know 1st was a no 1st game to be they presented you know sort of a policy statement where they paid a lot of lip service to the uprising a lot known to the different protesters and their demands at the moment theyre carrying to go shooting with the i. M. S. They have requested 10000000000. 00 over the next 5 years since the economy and they are sort of promising if you get economic restructuring they have to come up with a an economic rescue plan which includes a referee structuring of almost everything one could think of from restructuring the banks even and to a city sector to implement a whole new wide range of taxes and even at the corruption legislation of course the question is that can they deliver on these from us and what is this legislation and what are these reforms look like as well at the moment there seems to be a bit of a tense or a ship right now in between lead on the i. M. F. And how these negotiations are going but lebanon is also really relying on a pledged 11100000000 dollars in loans from their National Community which they hope can be used to rebuild its entire infrastructure from the highways and Sewage Treatment plants power plants and the like so levels having to rely on International Support for their economic rescue plan is you know rather ambitious whether they can you know whether the same Political Parties that got the country to this mess can actually implement all these reforms which in a way with harm from it is also very questionable and of course the banks are not happy with this you know the economic plan of all the banks want the government to bail them out the banks have called in government to sell state assets to help them recover because the banks are strong and we dont themselves have this tweet coming in from syria what do the desk think of the claims that an i. M. F. A well Bank Bailouts would be a need and no imperialist mandate so lucian. Well well i mean i could i could just say that in turn what it really what really matters is the reforms that the live in his government does in order to get this a you know we had a Donor Conference 2 years ago and paris france where the International Community pledged 11000000000. 00 and they said if you guys you know fight corruption if you do some judicial reform if you give us transparent public procurement processes then we can actually give this money. There and some of those reforms are really very connected to what the average of the news person wants they they want corruption to be fought they want public to understand transparently they want judicial reform they want structural reform and so i think that you know the lebanese state and the lebanese people could benefit a lot from the conditions of certain kinds of aid there is also the issue of you know the i. M. F. You know traditionally asks for. The value added tax or or. Anding you know. Which i think not go with the. Or do you want just am i going to determine whether or not i suspect youre talking to im getting im breaking up a little bit so im just going to jump in to you chief the moment so that we can just we sample that audio preview of syncing this is him on you tube karim. Kevin neo said that no one should count on the government as they design a freedom twilight 15 again getting debt to pay more debt that seems logical null loves us its the system that a committee. That cynicism is completely warranted at the end of the day no matter what sweeping reforms the matter how positive or negative they may be from the mail the ruling Political Parties of business not in its an ex warlords and so on right about how the natives are these reforms could be the question is you know could do you implement corruption measures or judicial reform on on yourselves right the idea is that these are people who have profited from from from corruption mismanagement of public funds they have benefited from these really messy policies so are these the people to legislate and implement an effective way these kinds of reforms to ensure that the lebanese economy come survive so it completely makes sense that there is a lack of trust in government and as seymour said earlier it is treated as a facade government many of these ministers or most of them were not involved in government at all before but they were appointed by the Political Parties in the 1st place and there are power structures outside of the cabinet and part of them up on of people call the shots they might be explanations or x. Warlords or is this not its that house quite a big say in how things are all up and so he takes the consideration and the cynicism is absolutely worth it. So for me discussing this in terms of the Financial Strategy of the government in lebanon there is no safety net for the people who are at the very. Bottom of. Even having any kind of income for instance Domestic Workers and she hear a story that the a. J. Class at team day this is an all female with Domestic Workers on a mission to deliver food to fellow Domestic Workers in need in the coronavirus pandemic in lebanon people who are doing their own social services for each other i want to introduce you to banshee who is actually in this video and she explains how shes helping other people who really need help or to be Domestic Work similar. You know to tell us a day that is asia not a seam in the mystical rest of us are here so that and on and then now because of the core not hers and their share prices thousands of dollars to go where is our leader and or any are forced to work for free and me are even treated on a turn or 2 in their country and how to not receive any help from their embassy because all this is not any of us a good. Harmony and we are providing the food for thousands out of a sequel person that i dont. Know half the president actually said at a very recently that he was afraid that people were going to stuff that there was they may not even be bread for them to buy what are you hearing what are you seeing on the streets. So when we mean when we say that people are starving return to that were not talking on people when you talk about people who have been the one who talking about syria to jews about. The king about Migrant Workers and lightnin the must be quarters and they are the most marginalized group and they are the most affected by the crisis right now so it happens that im working with the miners community center. With many Migrant Workers and seen sons of. Kicked out of the house there are thousands of people who dont exist a fluid flow and they. And their counting on initiatives and what it is shocking is that when the quote is a started the government of the not do anything for the people even if people are starving doing initiatives that were to do support to collect money to support the benes on this as well but what was shocking is that even it is. Refused to. Support Migrant Workers because they wanted to play only when is 1st and this is what. Once she and her group thats an Amazing Group to actually do that on initiatives for the thousands like in the women that are more than 250000 migrant the mastic workers at least. So this is what we mean i just want to jump to the idea that economic plan to say that its not just like a problem often. Like getting a sure. Its more than that i think greenland or that its more like a class struggle and that we have to really change the Economic System and you have a fight against the lines that are in conspiracy was that it was a government as well so when you have one percent of the lebanese who hold more than half of the deposits in the all the deficit in the wind its really show you that any deaths from the i am is actually like the weights and the. But of the of the losses the and the corruption and the budget and for the past 30 years would be on on all of the marginalized and on the working class. I want to bring you into this conversation we spoke to her earlier and she said you were its just time to rethink how lebanon works so listen to. What we should do we should be really in mansion levanon. Reemerging the country and economy does not rest on the exploitation of informal workers of Migrant Workers. We imagine. A fair society we have reached a point where the injustice is just not longer bearable. I remember a day when you were an optimist smiling abbie. Can you really imagine 11. Well i think that thats sort of the fight today. If you if you talk to protesters you talk to people involved as you talk to you know opposition politicians the fight today is what kind of lebanon comes out of this crisis because crisis do you know for all of their horror present opportunities and so will lebanon be a more accountable more just less corrupt more inclusive less sectarian state at the other end of this economic crisis or will we continue as sort of a zombie states where we have these you know arties in power who continue to divide spoils among each other in the name of power sharing and you know we have increased instability you know lack of security isolation and equality and emigration i think that there is sort of there was a point a few weeks ago the protests in tripoli which kind of stuck to my and my mind where there was actually a protester in tripoli who was killed by the army during the protests there a very sort of angry protests and that protester was then basically you know a march was organized in tripoli to his familys home and so people came up to tripoli from across the country they marched to outside the home and in this alleyway outside his home you basically had pictures of all d of these dead men and you know these martyrs who had died in successive rounds of fighting over the years in the country basically you know fighting for this or that warlords interests and so my my question that came to mind there was did this person if i was a man die for and you cause and you will and you will about im and i think that thats what most people would hope that that the people who have sacrificed so much over the past 6 months and who will be sacrificing into the future as this country continues to collapse that they are actually sacrificing for a better country and for more accountability and for a one on that really reflects what people took to the streets for 6 months. Crema half thank you so much for talking to us about lebanons economic crisis right now and and what you feel is the coolest behind that and humans should be concerned about and really appreciate you being on the string today thank you feel comments thank you for being part of the program im going to wrap up this Company Conversation on lebanon but i want to show you here what we often do someday through wednesday at 1630 g. M. T. We take you behind the scenes of the a. J. Stream a. J. English and also t. V. He can join us that is 1630 g. M. T. And sunday through wednesday on instagram like xenix time thanks for watching take care of a good. Business leaders. In the brush paul. Business leaders just want to find a bright spot. On the Atlantic Coast of west africa communities are at risk. As rising sea levels and a manmade disaster of threatening peoples lives on land and at sea. Aljazeera world expose the impact of Climate Change and a catastrophic human error. 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