Well i mean you know as a boys own go to war again both sides blame each other for the fighting on the border come their decades of animosity the result this is its a story. Hello and welcome to the program on iran come on its a conflict with roots dating back to the collapse of the soviet Union Armenia and azerbaijan have been in dispute over the new going to cut about region for decades its recognized internationally as part of azerbaijan but controlled by Ethnic Armenian forces there war ended in a cease fire in 1994 but theres been regular battles near the border ever since both accuse each other triggering the latest artillery bombardment and drone attacks north of no going to cut back fighting since sunday has killed at least 16 people mostly soldiers on both sides but at least one civilian 2 as aversions president has sacked the foreign minister accusing him of meaningless negotiations with other media robin forestay walker reports. Its. Large crowds of protesters in baku demanding these ery government declares war on armenia some demonstrators managed to Enter Parliament early on wednesday and were dispersed the crowds are highly unusual in tightly controlled azerbaijan an indication of the National Mood was. An army general was one of the 11 azeri servicemen killed in 3 days of fighting on the border with armenia the armenian government reports the deaths of 4 personnel. The latest fighting is north of the disputed territory of nagornokarabakh internationally recognized as part of azerbaijan its controlled by Armenian Forces some 30000 people died in the regional war between the former soviet republics in the 1990 s. Azerbaijan has accused armenias Prime Minister nicole passion yann of undermining longstanding peace talks chaired by the socalled o. S. C. E minsk group on wednesday a lol in the fighting allowed monitors to observe damage to civilian homes. I mean years Foreign Ministry told aljazeera that deescalation was now the priority war is not an alternative there is no alternative to the peace settlement marry me. And work towards the escalation and establishing an environment which helps an atmosphere which helps. East and we share favor state negotiate. This is the biggest escalation since a 4 day conflict in april 26th seen that saw some 200 People Killed russia and iran have offered to mediate the turkey says it stands with azerbaijan unless the renewed fighting can be resolved the risk of a wider conflict remains robin 1st year walka al jazeera. Lets introduce the panel in these airy capital back who commands hygeia assistant to the president of azerbaijan and here of the capital of armenia our center caught up there former advisor to our many as a Prime Minister and here in doha abraham fry at associate professor of conflict resolution at the Doha Institute a welcome to you all i want to begin in back who with. Youve been very clear the youve said that this is armenia undermining and thats the word youve used any peace treaties any negotiations when it comes to in the going to cut about what do you say that theyre saying to you and i also welcome it we want. An actual army as a region conflicts started was the illegal use of force by armenia acquiring a number of car bombs and 7 and just on the regions of azerbaijan and physically are and were going to territories are theres a military occupation of foreign media and i was aware john has a 1000000 or more i. D. P. s and refuses answer since a meet ninetys we have a negotiation process and which continues and we happen to see where regime lets just wait is not a peace unfortunately we have an attendance here and armenian size i mean inside tries to hide its all behind the scenes where is you and your annex there is of other way john and we also see a little activities we also see a little settlement is it or quieter it was a wager and we also have been a little premier of the negotiation process hasnt your final act and United NationsSecurity Council resolutions constitute a little political framework was a resolution of the council it which demands immediate unconditional and who is rule of harmony and to terms are quite directories we also howard was in the music group ruled them out of the negotiation process so a concert is based on a step by step step by step as allusion to the council was a key element here is of mr all of armenian troops from my directors azerbaijan a step by step approach and also return of azerbaijan an idea presented in egypt why dont assert years living as an ideal peace. Exult from their moms was an oral concept as a negotiation process unfortunately when it came to power we had an expectation bad is going to toot cool feel different or pursue different political and gender resins in a previous and governments of armenia unfortunately we see where that question your statements contradictory statements undermining the 4 months and also substance of the negotiation process armenia also tries to evade is responsibility for that occupation and aggravation they have committed against in azerbaijan and also tries multiple field isnt even obligations was a music group process and its an undermining the process is a meantime its in a disrespect as a musical process and also a White International community and in general as a result of this conflict i always causes a question to my armenian call it smooth to this whom we have in a discussion what armenia has achieved as a result of the lets do that let me just say its not a question lets put that question to our son the current term hes in here of on the capital of our many as a former advisor to armenia as Prime Minister its all your fault says our guest and back what do you make of that. Well thank you very much for this opportunity i also want to welcome all of the of course our viewers and for interests that in the region in fact i have to be quite surprised about the faults talking about our faults now i dont actually understand how one can talk about faults when just about 5 minutes ago we did hear the foreign minister other budget threatening possible bombing of the Nuclear Plant in that area i mean yes were not talking about a number of kind of right now were talking about sarin our military who are talking internationally recognized borders of armenia what i want to make very clear this is not just another escalation when i mean yeah thats about it this is a very clear and direct threat to democracy this is asserted democracy this isnt a get attack against that marcy that were trying to build the one we had in 2800 i mean you know it went through one of the biggest and the most major change its 3 recent history. This was a 2800 bell that revolution which brought about the most legitimate government in the country since the mid ninetys and we are undertaking a large agenda if we forms we have a very particular government here going through a lot of painful changes inside the country but the people and the countries in their neighborhood this body regimes since since seem to be quite nervous about what i have a feeling here what were seeing here is internal issues in azerbaijan that is triggering you to start and to figure it out to create a not simply we dont means fueling i mean of all the up tried to do right its on public to actually draw attention or diverged from the real and the serious issues that we believe the country will have and hats we had we had corrupt regime ourselves we know how it works we know our hardest to be able to actually handle a regime like that however i mean yeah yeah democracy a country with a reformist government has no reason to attack and what were seeing from our other by joe nickell leagues there or from other agenda is how did things population so intimate relation villages in the territory proper of armenia shouting and sending buttons and rockets already for 4 or 5 minutes what were saying and were committed and our foreign minister said you could very quickly oh yes that were committed to the Peace Process we believe that the format of the negotiations where russia United States and france are quote chairing. The means group is the only implemented in the negotiations to continue constructive negotiations between the parties come back to negotiations table why do it is relevant why are you sending but if youre going to continue with this language obviously youre going to receive an answer and response this is impossible this time lets talk about lets talk about the negotiations lets bring in our guest in. What youre hearing from your of is that i mean is on his way to being a beacon of demarc. Say in the region and actually its surrounded by despotic regimes such as yours that are making that more difficult as a base art has just sacked its foreign minister saying the negotiations were meaningless why arent you going back to the negotiating table principle of democracy i believe is in a lawsuit but i mean you can talk about an hour see how to and also a joint question yes government bans and after words have been sacked and currently whats in a building in azerbaijan is an evolution of the dictatorship and also at the forum in your claims for democracy and democracy it doesnt conduct ethnic cleansing and occupation too and as a country and whats going on internally in armenia and we see where entire political system is in crisis jordan at least early decisions and giant arms address the deficit in general description of the army a socalled revolution not a dictatorship and what they are is to use a recent incident what happened is a border area between army and azerbaijan is a year and hours or illustration of the hypocrisy of armenian governments persecute on one side or complaint it is of azerbaijan zito couples in a piece from when i was a sight on a deliberate manner as they act in a border area between 2 countries thats an army and also conduct that not tourist ethnic koreans in in that continent of europe after the 2nd world war against ours are going to civilians and we also see in 2016 when armenia deliberately in a discriminate manner and act as a witness who really us is a wooded area whats irrational because from azerbaijan a perspective youre claiming went away and has started if it was a wouldnt have started militarily it makes sense for us away john to Start Operation is a no want to carve out an area to liberate our occupied territories whats in a sense to start an operations of the area but i know the answer to both this let me know as much as our spirit does at question let me ask you were approached by yes i was a you know i has. Said these negotiations are meaningless. In general were sooty years in which it is indeed an initiation process every time we see where the armenian side tries to create an agility technical elements to a transit sponsibility one days events this change of karma and as these this event we dont have in wyoming can use of as a piece next days event lets talk about confidence Building Measures my question is a dynamic you pointed it is of was a way john you can either physically army an army forces in this whole incident or is a person way john you want to state responsibly that under International Law these are your troops and general having a settlement is a conflict process is not deserving of the council it is not is wrong you troops are we can have a settlement is a process but. I will come back here in just one moment but i want to bring in our guest in doha. Professor conflict resolution of the day our insitu youve taken a close look at the role of both russia and turkey in this conflict to keep powers within the region that still havent managed to actually bring about a satisfactory resolution to the conflict are they making more trouble. Or are they serious partners for peace between these 2 countries i think this is a very important question and its very important we look at the conflict not only from the lenses of a conflict that we are not mean or not as it began but from the why does a lot of job situation regional situation and particularly the rule of russia number one and also the reality russia is known as the be a major player in this conflict is a trying to manage the conflict between. Its former colonies. You know and when i was at chinas part of it and im sure is a major supplier of arms door hasnt returned but also. A close ally with ameena as been barred or. C. S. Door couldnt have secured that Treaty Organization that russia needs and i mean has been frustrated with not receiving that support their suppliers are seen from russia and national russias trying to manage this situation and theres also that in case theres all the shabby and sending these keeping and ward forces which would be seen as an Occupying Force as which was dancers are not concerned about so it is definitively that russian role here is seriously impacting a conflict between the 2 and also there is no security component between the meaning and duty as you know with that historical arrival as the nickel. Conflict between the 2 partners and i mean you know from Security Point of youre seeing yourselves being sandwiched between 2 images as a regime. And duty and dont you already did not disappear door did their disposition and support of azerbaijan saw that took ish also as important and here we have also that dirty russia model emerged in the last few years of that induction of diction in syria and now will work in the government thats now dogs and now and now also they went in to get out and leave. To come up with an arrangement and who norse saw this could be an extended this conflict between a being and as a region where russia and to keep good come plus the government and try to manage and of course there is also always a concern about this external and that vision as to what extent that theyre really trying to resolve the conflict or to mean day in order to keep their interest and the situation while the one on one 3rd letting a roam lets bring in theirs bring our guess and yerevan him back in because actually quite a Crucial Point they were made original for the lets bring lets bring in her shortly but let me just ask you a question. Is the question i think your brother answer anyway how useful is the russian role how you saw the turkish role as a weapon as a strategy of Partnership Relations was a russia and the neighboring country and russia is also one of the quit your countries isnt in china as a way youre as honest as you partnership and. You know that it wouldnt close relations in brazil the ties with the turkey but here is a professor also mentioned sharmeen in the relation that i was awake and no one actually sitting in a ditch words in armenia armenia is also in a seeking enmity was other countries why isnt borders on the tour his army a close because in 1000 street when armenia launched by a commuter orphans of one its territory in azerbaijan a quaint cabbage originally was away john using his her i. Q. In the charter to you cause its in order because innocent aggressor state and its owner is old of armies on occupational calls about army becoming a so isolated country therefore we see rats in general turkey and russia can play it all full as it is a lot of the council in russia is also member of the music group process and also sharing illusions baseball of the countries and historical answer the usual what they are for now is a time for me a mix in a to say that is your choice i mean what you have achieved as a result of this conflict become a self isolated country is a big demographic problems economic social challenges lets go lets get the opportunities its not occur. Everything that is. A son what is your response. Well its. Theres a speaker of former speaker of the Foreign Ministry probably an old white house there but only official that which is fine i dont know but i can just with this rhetoric viewers and i want to i have to i have to make a couple of comments professor its not a conflict between turkey and armenia its the Armenian Genocide its political geography that were currently living in and of course big players making deals and making the border its that levy leaving the problem and kind of sweet and thats created by Joseph Stalin and. In a letter to turkey is indeed part of this hes the only country in the big player in the region that has been directly backing there by john and its aggressive moves in fact Foreign Ministry made a statement openly saying that they will be backing azerbaijan on any growth or start we expect possibly see a similar recipe behavior from turkey stop there if possible role as a independent mediator is our question for us now is getting back to a lot of the accusations about the democratic process that democratic process i understand there. Are white afraid that the similar situation can come running as their project and this regime that exists in but who may have the same destiny as the cup the practical issue that we have not been yeah i know its going to be i dont its going to be tough and what would came around as a as a fact was state orchestrated then especially 2 days ago in but when i give a try to teach people who are patriotic im an awful big empire when a notion you refuse our nation for war in fact well as i think you all went out. The side of us and resignation of your own cabinet mean birds who are have to do their part of your own parliament so my giving is that quoting one thing is not be all you can do. Things happen and you know theyre better democracy and the revolutionary process might end up coming to your art so be coaches that arent quite clearly understand that the article doesnt really qualify orioles are examples of great games and i was away. On the air guns are at your the floor is yours please respond are you worried that youre about to be talkers and on the way i wasnt into a lot and soon i was away john it was always an interesting is in a stable and what in a people is a city its the had in a just cause and anger because as a way your People Special i. D. P. s and if you use our time so the years they want to return back to their homes as a result of that a completion and as you armenia and youll go on and they cant return to your homes lesbias in response ability armine it isnt a country about bears in a state its also will the poles at all those of occupation and as a Regional Power that went as a street and they demanded justice and also tired about certain years negotiation process goes on this is a music group process but it is of any practical result that isnt it carus usually happens that easy and you may also claims to have turkey in your constitution you havent a territorial claims against an authority and you are considering it as a part of the great armenia that is a narrative yet you are building your now youngsters and was at enmity towards your neighbors and you have recently your government your government i mean your previous government you also part of the question in government and what it knew that. You are you know that he took the fall come into law well let me just ask it was originally let israel and ourselves as on the. This wish list very quickly. As a vote on a stable this is not about the fair of the government being toppled as you said what your response to that is very quickly. Well my feeling is that some of my colleagues say that i mean its Prime Minister actually it is more popular now is their budget and then im here as a democratic leader im sure its not democracy its the human rights and aspirations for freedom of speech and other liberties that your citizens are you right now and this is the reason why that people are going to be out in the streets and we see youre our president yesterday has been talking about only a 150 people going to be coming volunteers to go to the war nor are we going to your people not want war what we want is to go back to the negotiations and. I will have to make one more and especially when it comes to the confidence Building Measures you together with your administration that kind of agree or better monitoring of the borders why are you refusing at nap youre now coming to me and accusing us of at that let us confidence Building Measures lets let money course along the border line lets have International PeopleInternational Observers more interest beyond the border and then us we saw 100 years of conflict we did not talk about thats about the conflict lets talk about conflict resolution there are enough right in doha having heard the conversation here tonight between our guests and yerevan and in back who its clear that there are intractable entrenched positions here what can be done if turkey and russia can bring the 2 sides of the negotiating table what else can be done clearly its not down to the americans maybe the french is there an International Process so theres. Thank you we used to say about the conflict between the israelis and the policy as a piece of process process without peace but unfortunately in this conflict the peace of process is not nor p. Is not even theres not even a process so which is even worse the starting point would be action from the minsk group though a seamans group that has been in this conflict since 1904 and brought absolutely nothing no changes nor progress toward we need to look into the role of the misc group and to see on what yes and what business there are many are doing and maybe dont need to find them and it of this is a good rule in order to be. More effect than you can imagine how russia and the United States are going to make these i mean the there is they have really bad relations between everywhere so i how are we expecting gusher and there uniteds there is the time at position to make peace and as and be sure and i mean we need to look into this also that to leaders that all governments between i mean and azerbaijan there definitely me a bit differently talk but they dont negotiate that negotiation process has proved to be pointless nor progress has been made either so we this is not the 1st the clash we had the clash in 2016 there whats wonderful to be awarded when that will but theres also been before that there are several docs took we need more meaningful dialogue between the 2 parties to engage and see as they a log so they can we can hopefully look into this and i agree that confidence building bridges are very important there are starting point but we cant stop there i mean this is that the wars the stump and make the united forward and not serious changes have been mia so i think engaging in a meaningful dialogue meaningful negotiation with the 2 parties are willing to meet painful concessions on both sides there is no negotiation where one party. Achieve you know or what it wants but the 2 parties we need to make this been for concessions on both sides i think we can be you know talking about. Improvement and one last thing we have to keep in mind for peace to happen between the 2 parties that couldnt lead the 2 candidates are losing the status quo is not going to be john because the did it was under that i mean and well dont but also i mean it is losing them out of what we call the opportunity cost of the conflict this whole comic development is that egypt and is unable to meet c. D. S. Economic prosperity because of the converts all of this have to realize that they are losing a lot the starters a court is not in their favor and opposite hope is not sustainable but that reason they have to make it a just this is. A fascinating educational discussion thanks to all our guests hekmat had here for our son and abraham for hat and thank you too for watching you can see the program again any time by visiting our website how does a dot com and for further discussion go to our Facebook Page as facebook dot com forward slash a. J. Inside story and you can also join the conversation on twitter we are at a. J. Inside story for me and long car and the whole team here and a whole life and. I. The politics of division have pushed india into the grip of a historical reckoning i am afraid because i know on the minority of the brain but where do these ideas come from the tragedy of mormon lives at home what you try to sanitize or getting to school or a happy family all along the border joining me opticians us here on the final part of my journey when i can become a target of the hindu 1st policy in search of india saw on aljazeera. 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