Transcripts For ALJAZ The Bottom Line 20240712

Several times in the past few days including on tuesday to the debate in Cleveland Ohio a White House Correspondent kimberly how has more from outside the press office the questions that are now swirling in washington are why if the whole pics was expressing or at least exhibiting symptoms of 8 cope at 19 but there were precautions that were being taken for the president and the 1st lady and presumably others that came in close contact with her its reported that hope x. Was on air force one without a mask and that also that she was very close to the president and even the Vice President as there were proper ations for that 1st president ial debate that took place last tuesday. The diagnosis has thrown the president ial Election Campaign into confusion trump has canceled his next planned event in florida were expecting a statement soon from the Biden Campaign alan fischer has more on that we do know that joe biden will wish the president and the 1st lady all the best but its a question of whether or not they try to begin a political advantage from that the democrats are expecting the republicans to put pressure on them to stop campaigning over the next 2 weeks while dont trump itself isolating that is highly unlikely to happen this is a political advantage the democrats want to push home in other news as armenia says its ready to work with mediators to reestablish a cease fire in the disputed region of the garden a cut of our fierce fighting between armenia and azerbaijan has continued into a 6th day. Those are the headlines is the bottom line. Hey im Steve Clemons and i have a question is america blind to the battles that matter and is the u. S. Losing influence to nations like china and russia lets get to the bottom line. The United States has been king of the hill in the world for decades managing what is essentially a global empire thats either feared or loved anywhere you go and generating massive wealth and power for american citizens but now some of the countrys leading thinkers are wondering out loud if america is kicking down its own hill is americas global influence simply fading today were talking to someone whos been thinking about americas challenges from a military and Strategic Point of view for a very long time he pulls no punches and he wears no rose colored glasses a german master is a retired u. S. Army Lieutenant General and former National Security advisor to President Trump and hes just published a new book battlegrounds the fight to defend the free world which talks about the threats facing american prosperity and influence around the globe joe mcmaster great to be with you as you look at americas weaknesses in vulnerabilities today given that experience how do you see things well stephen thank you for the opportunity with you have to be here with your with your listeners and i really think it was the beginning of a new era of warfare there are a lot of continuity still and in the nature of war were still political and human uncertain and a contest of wills but really what this this new era opened up are tremendous opportunities to use emerging technologies to accomplish objectives not only in rouer with to accomplish objectives in forms of competition short of war and thats what weve seen russia in particular proof that over the decade of the 2 thousands. You know when i look at your your main points of argument you argue that america is a strategically narcissistic nation it has strategically narcissistic generals and pollute politicians and it visors and what you mean by that is they look at the world through the american prism itself and alone in not looking at the ambitions and passions of other players out there in the world when you were in the white house were you able to shift that narcissism into what you call empathy or trying to understand some of the other problems and challenges that america has steve and i believe we did i was there for 13 months and during that 30 months i brought with me some lessons of history had written a book on how and why vietnam became an american war and in that book i identified certain pitfalls in National Security Decision Making in Lyndon Johnsons administration between november 19th 63 when john f. Kennedy was assassinated and july 965 when large numbers of u. S. Troops deployed to vietnam 11 of those pitfalls were was a rush to action without fully understanding the nature of the challenges associated with ensuring the freedom and independence of South Vietnam and so what i was determined to do is to put into place a process that would allow the partisan agencies the president s cabinet to convene around framing challenges to National Security and interNational Security understanding them on their own terms viewing them through the lens of our vital interests and then crafting overarching goals and more specific objectives in particular to see if i thought it was missing important to examine the often implicit assumptions that underpin Foreign Policy and to subject those assumptions to scrutiny and this is where i think we were able to apply a corrective to strategic narcissism which i define it really is as viewing the world mainly it in relation to us. And then assuming that we do will be decisive to the outcome it under appreciates your narcissism does the agency the influence the authorship over the future that others have and so recognizing this continuous interactive nature of strategy and policy i thought was a mess lee important youre one of the pings that comes and you know blaring through the book is the importance of a key allies i mean your chapter on south korea and japan was was very very powerful but in an era that you know many people are going to define is you know this Inflection Point is america 1st is an america 1st framing fit with the kind of scaffolding youre trying to bring to Foreign Policy well stephen i think its a demonstrably fact that america has been a force for good in the world right if you go back to the you know the bloodiest war modern history what is century in modern history the the 20th century it was the United States who entered late into world war one but but but actually helped complete the defeat of germany and restore peace at least for a time to the european continent and then of course was were in world war 2 where they do United States along with its allies defeated nazi germany and korea japan but then i think very important stephen and i know that that you were a student of this was established an International Order that lifted hundreds of millions of people out of poverty and prevent has prevented great power conflict at least for the last for the last 75 years but i think whats very important 1st recognize is that all of this is contested we are in a continuous competition and its really not the u. S. And china or the u. S. And russia what i think were seeing today stephen what i read about in the book is the free world is up against these authoritarian enclosed systems that are actively promoting those systems as an alternative to democratic governance in which people will actually have a say. And how their government and in our free market economic systems which free people up who have entrepreneurial spirit to help build a better watch for them and generations to come well general a lot of people are framed you know along the lines you know you have that america was this bastion of liberal values democracy commitment to minority rights commitment to justice and a lot of folks are looking at us from abroad and saying wow america may not look a you know may look a little wobbly on those fronts you know the president in his comments about you know leaving office perhaps you know not peacefully if he were to lose the election or you know concerns about you know voting and whatnot and im just like we dont look like that chaining example on the hill in the eyes of many in the world are you able to square that i am i am so american founding what was never was never perfect and i think was remarkable about america is our ability for selfimprovement that comes from introspection that comes from selfcriticism are our citizens have a right to voice their dissent our citizens have a right to decide who governs them that is whats most powerful is that with the radical idea of the American Revolution was the sovereignty law with the American People now of course we had tremendous contradictions in our founding in our constitution foremost among them was it was the institution of slavery and it took almost a 100 years before we ended that institution in our most destructive war history a massive painting 4000000 people now of course that was imperfect in itself because the reconstruction period after after the civil war failed you had the growth of what we call it in the United States you know jim crow which is it is really a legal for of disadvantaging black americans which was not really fully dismantled until the Civil Rights Movement of of the 19 sixtys and its still a work in progress right. But its a work in progress and im someone who has a great faith in this american experiment in democracy and i think even as we see with people internationally you know they view probably as our weaknesses right this dissent i see it as a strength that steve and i have that one chapter in the book turning now to weaknesses into strengths because i think there are authoritarian regimes like the Chinese Communist party and that they probably see protests of that got what we could never have that right so a so so so shes it being in and the Chinese Communist party theyre racing right theyre racing to expand their population control through this technology in able Surveillance Police state right so so i think when you look at china where you look at other authoritarian regimes it makes you thankful for what we have even in the ugliness right the ugliness of of this vitriolic discourse were seeing in this political season i think we have a lot to celebrate as americans and sometimes we miss it right we miss it because we are naturally so critical which is a strength but i think its possible to do that to things i think is possible. Its possible for us to limit the murder of george floyd to Police Brutality into minorities and inequality of opportunity and still have pride the we have the mechanisms in place in our separation of powers in the response of the story governments have to have to the people to to get better and to and to to work on equality of opportunity and and to do that you know really across the political spectrum which is one of the purposes of books will be i really worry that were becoming so polarized right there that is that is dysfunctional we need to come together and you know and have discussions you know i mean i speak you end the book you end the book i got to the you know last page to end the book on we need to to educate people we need to bring them back together we need to civics and bring people and understand that they are despite our you know differences they are at the same time together its a very powerful ending to that but you also make no bones about the fact that russia is actively inside this country trying to divide trying to maximize that i mean its one of the most robust articulations of russian malfeasance in the United States that i have read and im im wondering where youre going with that because we dont always hear your former boss President Trump articulating those same kinds of concerns and you work you know every day you know right with him and stephen thats just wrong right the when the president says you know who you are for and you know or doesnt want to acknowledge this this campaign of disruption and denial he gets putin space to deny even his most egregious acts right this is this is this is a you know a person who likely has directed the poisoning with the nerve agent of his greatest political right which was just recently mr mahoney he did the same he did the same thing again. And his daughter endangered potentially thousands of people in the u. K. And then just denies it this you know shooting down an airliner over ukraine with incontrovertible evidence and he denies it and of course the same we expect the same denial from him and he does repeatedly about about attacking not only our elections but its hacking the fabric of our society i think what was important about that chopper on putins playbook is that is that really i dont think i dont think the kremlin cares who wins our elections as long as we dont the result right and and as long as we doubt our democratic processes and institutions and so we have to guard against that and we cant be our own worst enemy you know with the with the president says oh i dont think its not that hes being our own worst enemy and so so i think lets not make it easy for a lot of europe most lets confront this challenge head on in 2 ways right one is to expose it and to and to impose costs on the kremlin for this behavior but the other is you know a lot of this is in our power we can we can come together as a side society and make us ourselves less vulnerable as well you know general i was in beijing many years ago was during the time of hu jintao and i was meeting with the equivalent of the policy planning director at their version of the state department street Foreign Affairs so i asked him i said you know ive never been in this place again quite like this before whats your grand strategy and he says our grand strategy is to try to figure out how to keep america engaged and distracted by small middle Eastern Countries and they were joking but there was an element of serious near a lack of strategic clarity you dont you go through the world the middle east china russia afghanistan an endless war there north korea and i guess my question to you is you know why our engage with all of these other distractions is china winning well i think china thinks its winning which is important to point out right now i think i mean china has some really significant vulnerabilities in the Chinese Communist. Party does it as well and and it would with their driven by stephen is this combination of this grand in vision that youre alluding to to take center stage this agenda of National Rejuvenation but theyre also driven by fear fear of losing their exclusive grip on power this is why theyre engaged in a campaign of cultural genocide and this is a horrid i think everyone across the world needs to be much much more vocal about putting a 1000000 people in concentration camps extending this is Surveillance Police state it way that that the staples human freedom destroying the in this recent report 8500 mosques right down to maybe 7500 additional mosques and you know stephen the weaker birth rate is down 60 percent right due to forced sterilizations forced abortions in place of ids it is this is horrible right and and i just cant understand why more of the world right well well what more of the of the muslim world the islamic world isnt just up in arms about this but with with this is fear that is what the party is motivated by and they have there are some real vulnerabilities i think china sees what it had always seen as a fleeting window of opportunity to realize that china dream they see it may be closing more rapidly but at the same time as were invested in the in the cold crisis in particular steven. They i think hes an echo chamber of sorts it did that if youre a dictator you tend to surround yourself with people would say oh you know great idea i wish i had thought of that and i think she should be she should beings hearing hey youre winning youre on top look at how screwed up america is look at their look at the racial divisions look at the nature of their of their president ial campaign look at the dallas they have about themselves righted and so i think its a very dangerous time stephen because of that i think whats even more important whether or not theyre winning is i think maybe the crissy they are waiting and they also are desperate to capitalize on what they view as a narrow window of opportunity. You know i also want to just talk about National Security Decision Making the National Security advisor role is such an Important Role you know weve talked about general Brant Scowcroft and others before in the late ninetys i was involved with a project that was looking at how do you reform the Goldwater Nichols act to end this is not to bore our viewers but this is a restructuring of those key principals who were involved in National Security Decision Making and it was done after Franklin Roosevelt was president because there was a fear that there might in the future be a very strong president who did not really respect or fall of the contours of smart National Security Decision Making and my question was how do you feel that structure of Decision Making is today is it strong and solid or do you worry that it is not playing the the role that should be stephen where it is not playing the world that should be but maybe not as much for structural reasons as the way the instrument is used right so the as you as you alluded to it was after it was after world war 2 and confronting the cold war competition with the soviet union the nationals pretty active not to put it establishes establishes the National Security council and the idea was also in her mind was he was preventing another pearl harbor right we have to make sure that we integrate efforts across departments and agencies we share information analysis give the president options quarrel to cope with these challenges to our security and to our prosperity as well so so the the National Council staff has been used in different ways by different president s over time and its a really interesting history of history that i have learned and taught based on my my earlier book on vietnam and and teaching history of west point and so i really felt like it was a gift for me to bring that historical knowledge into the into the west wing of the white house and then of course it dawns on you and well im the person responsible for this and i wrote about how people screwed up in the mel you know not now its on me to make it work. So so i think if its all about how the president uses it whats interesting now is there is this sort of undercurrent within certainly within the trope of ministration has been existant in previous administrations Ronald Reagan i think foremost among them in which president s come in kind of running against the government. And whats there there especially with destruction the in some ways go to war against their own government and in this case i think i saw this kind of idea of a deep state a resistance to this shift in policy and that i or at that concern i think was directed at the National Security Council Staff when in fact its the National Security Council Staff that actually helps the president more than any other organization to understand what options exist across those departments and agencies and then implement his decisions and his policies so i think its how its used i think of the 13 months that i was there we presented options we put into place even i think some good and right about this is not a rational person it can shift to our policy some of which have been sadly reversed i think and and but i think the way it functions and i wrote about this on dereliction of duty the point of you know it relies many on person hours of relationships but you know even more than organizational structure you know let me let me ask you about iran from in and you and i dont have to share exactly the same world you want to run i saw more benefit to the g. C. P. O. That way than you certainly did but you make a really interesting point you said that you know that the duplicity. You know the tugs that are involved inside iran to National Character are ones that are not going to go away overnight and i guess my question to you is as youre dealing with adversaries who we dealt with this soviet union as an adversary but we still do deals with them im just wondering is your book doesnt give us a playbook of how you deal with that or in the world despite what you see is really serious. This flawed motivations and character that youre not going to change through you know one negotiation well stephen i think the 1st step is to reject strategic narcissism in the form of creating the adversary you want rather than the adversary that actually exists and and what are what are you in that in your chapters is that we did we did that with a rant rave weve always fallen for the trick of a red putting for kind of the shop window right that the public face of the regime while the regime really is still very much captured by the ideology of of the of the revolution and the desire to export that ideology as what it is sees as the main way before it to extend its influence across the middle east and he wanted what he wants to keep the arab world perpetually we and meshed in conflict so it can establish that a modicum influence drive the great satan you know the United States out of the region and threaten the little satan israel with destruction as well as the arab monarchies you know with with destruction and so i think its a poor 1st to recognize this is whats driving them as well as this is now corrupt who are really a criminalized Patronage Network thats established that puts these boycotts you know the children most often of the most senior clerics in charge of these business conglomerates so what they what they want to do is continue to profit from this exclusive grip on power that the Supreme Leader of the Guardian Council have over over over the the regime as well as the Islamic Revolutionary guards corps keepers of the revolution but every time a new president comes in who seems like he might be conciliatory this is hot to me remember in the late ninetys well hes a librarian you know he would be very nice. Or we have you know rouhani was the next great hope and now we have mr zarif you know goes around the world speaking the queens english you know acting very conciliatory while the regime continues its 3 decade long proxy war against the United States the arab marquees and his. And so when i argue is when you look at your adversary look at what theyre doing more than what theyre saying and try to understand better the emotions and the ideology the drive and constrain them and when you do that with the right you realize that you have to you have to compete with the right and conciliatory approach is not going to work with the regime general President Trump recently referred to generals out there and soldiers lets hear the clip im not saying the military is in love with me the soldiers the top people in the pentagon probably arent because they want to do nothing but fight wars so that all of those Wonderful Companies that make the bombs and make the planes and make Everything Else stay happy. But were getting out of the endless wars you know how were doing. So general are you and your colleagues in the defense establishment really just committed to ongoing war as the president says no not at all i mean that the last people who want to fight a war are those who are actually doing the fighting here who see you know the threat as cost of war we see the human cost of war i would say that the wars that we have been fighting stephen across the greater middle east south from south asia to the you know to the fertile crescent in iraq and syria are i would characterize them as humanitarian interventions are we are at war with the enemies of all civilized people these tax these these ocelot the jihad as they they are they are murderers and criminals who try to cloak their criminal and murderous agenda in it in the in a cloak of of of a perverted interpretation of of religion right in and of course its very important for us to remember the greatest victims the greatest victims of these terrorist organizations are fellow muslims right and so i see these as interventions on behalf of the muslim world and behalf of all humanity i think were engaged in many ways on a modern day frontier between civilization and barbarism right these are these are people who are determined to stay for human freedom and have decided the most horrible heinous acts on on on on humanity so so i think thats were not fighting to because we want to fight wars i mean i think were fighting on behalf of of humanity of these conflicts and by the way were fighting alongside amazing partners right in in afghanistan for example this year we lost 10 of our our courageous soldiers in combat there but we should remember that in afghanistan about 30 Afghan Soldiers a police die every day fighting to defend the freedoms the theyve enjoyed since that country threw off the. Yoko of of of the taleban in 2001 right so so i think that we have tremendous partners and you know of course im so many friends now across the middle east and afghanistan i care deeply about their families and thats why its in these wars well general h. R. Mcmaster former National Security advisor and president id say congratulations on the book battle grounds i have worked through every page of my own your folks. Enjoy yours and i really appreciate you sharing your thoughts on where this country is going and what its strategic deficits are thank you so much stephen thank you not to be with you so whats the bottom line my guest is a decorated general and hes fought americas wars abroad general mcmaster believes that americans need to unite domestically and be more engaged globally he believes America Needs to become less narcissistic and more empathetic towards both enemies and allies and understand whats driving them thats the opposite in my view of america 1st thats how to read her a Foreign Policy that will have traction and make america a more effective more dependable and more responsible global stakeholder and thats the bottom line. Global community over seas you know both thats. Crazy that looks like the part of the debate issue in each if you can jump into the conversation when no topic is off the table if youre not afraid of anyone take power we just. Use these 3 talking richer and the poor getting poorer its not to destroy the system its just to look at the system and. This street on out is the euro well im not happy with when the president of the United States speaks out the rest of the world takes notice. Aggressive negotiation on trade deals. Unparalleled military might International Agreements hanging by a thread will the next u. S. Foreign policy put america 1st. Or be a Leading Light for the world at large. Examine the key issues of the us elections on aljazeera. On counting the cost of tensions in the South China Sea of a shrinking fish stocks as beijing sends out a naval bomb on a stake its flying plus responsible capitalism the investors who got the chief executive officer strangely a mom of 5 counting the cost on aljazeera. Ready. Im about to sit in doha continuing our breaking News Coverage u. S. President donald trump has announced he and the 1st lady have tested positive for corona virus and get tested after his top aide contract at the virus rob reynolds reports the news came in a late night tweet from the white house President Donald Trump wrote tonight the 1st lady and i tested positive for covert 19 we will begin our quarantine and Recovery Process immediately we will get through this together. It is not known how despite elaborate precautions