Neighborhood. So being turned to rubble of the israel dropped thousands of bottoms. These indiscriminate attacks on civilians violate article 25 of the hate conventions. Since the mass killed, 1300 is riley is drawing its military offensive nearly 10 days ago. These really minute tre as imposed the title of saint john casa, the ink life was already on the land at and see blockade for 16 years. Palestinians and aid workers say lack of food medicine, fuel and basic supplies is made the situation that catastrophic, under the 4th Geneva Convention is ro, as the occupying power is prohibited from deporting or transfer, or in parts of the population from the land. They dont keep paused, but last week as well issued an ultimatum for 1100000 palestinians in the northern part of the in place to leave that homes will go to a panel of guests in a moment, but 1st set false and has this report from the hate with thousands of civilian deaths and the situation and guys are escalating calls for international justice. Our growing and all eyes are here now on the International Criminal court in the hague. But so far the h i. C. C has not met any formal announcement that it will step up. Its investigation into both of the war crimes committed by its for our or how much . In 2021, the i to see decided that this has jurisdiction opening up to 5 palestinian territories even though its well doesnt recognize the International Criminal court. Numerous cases happening file since then, including the killing of al jazeera report to read about a clay who was killed by his for a solar system 2022. But so far, no progress has been announced. Let alone arrest warrants issued. This is in contrast with what happened after russia and say that ukraine, 5, these days later, the prosecute knows that he will start a former investigation. And since then, and arrest warrant against president Vladimir Putin has been issued a full blockade of gaza is considered a war crime and possible genocide, according to International Law, exports. The i. C. C has the night for requests for an interview, step 5, some for inside story in the hague. That spring, you know, i guess in london we have Jeffrey Robinson, founder of that history chambers and for the president of the war crimes cooled in sierra leone. And jeffrey was appointed by the un this distinguished jurist member on its just as council in haifa. We have so son is i here, human rights lawyer, a Legal Advisor for the Civil Society coalition for emergency in our society. And in new york, we have mach glasgow, hes look to advise the dutch and you practice for peace. Mark was in gauze during the operation cost led to that was these ready . 12009. 00 to investigate the come doctor will he also instruct instructs what crimes investigators at the institute of International Criminal investigations. Thank you. All of you for joining us. I want to start with you jeffrey, because the rules of little we hit least terms. All you have child international, humanitarian law, l. A. C. Laurel bomb conflict as a locked in price just in bello. And theres that thing that everyone i think has heard off, but no one really quite understands all the details to Geneva Conventions. Im going to ask you jeffrey, to start a conversation off, give us the 90 seconds version. Whats all the rules of will . Oh, okay. The rules of rule uh, not rooms of rule, the rules of war could be with us for hundreds of years. Ringback do kill civilians due to the rush to trial or execute enemies without fed try low. All dont kill a prisoner who surrender as they read rules of law for centuries in 19199 in what is called the room. Statue of the rules of law or port in fairly straight forward english, they banned the taking of hostages. They banned the use of starvation as a tactic which she was to. Ready long mile in gaza, they protected the old tide. This video was unless they got mess stuck in the wall. So they of the rooms of all fairly clear. But its pretty easy, jeffrey says, but just to be clear of these binding on every country. And then every armed group a day of binding on countries that signed up to the International Criminal court. And thats a 123. 00 countries. But they have not binding on russia, which commits wont crimes every few hours. It is cray, and they are not binding on america, which refuses to sign in the fia the one day and americans. So maybe prosecutors in the us and they are not binding on its way, which of course repeat this is just sign. So they have a defect in the low we can say. But israel, for example, all russia is commission, clearly committing a war crime that mr. Cruz is completely won clearly of aggression by invasion, ukraine, the problem of 1881 to cool down the scene, pulled back criminology, and indeed that bob barry criminality. When he comes to bombings be this is limited. And only if its the condition or some, the air force command is bomb, the a civilian residence is captured in sweden or in your room somewhere. Is there any prospect of pushing them on trial . So you can set that war crimes have a catch as catch can call it to you about the boat or you few capture war criminal outside his country that will protect him. Uh, 10 more crimes be punished. So certain if i can come to you and as we move to the specific region of the world, were talking about israel and palestine. This very, very long conflict. Theres an important thing, i think, before we talked about the details, weve heard the background from jeffrey on, on the rules of pool, but is rarely seen legally as the occupying power. What does that mean . This means that since 1960 savannah is really is eh, by some rules, negations, based on international, on the patient was one of the most important on basic and relational the is basically to protect the civilians implemented distinction between civilian as of and now and the 2005, we all know that israel disengaged it from the faster, but it is still a it has a bigger issues based on mileage because of the fact the imposed. Assume here look a since a few months after ca splendid in 2007 to today. So its really hard obligations. Israel is i obligated to protect civilians and it is obligated to and not to i, tosh a im not too late to work because that is the are included i incurred the style but also and as you mentioned the heck relations, which is basically the vacation long as well, and not only do and not her civilians but also and on to and i talk a structures that give services for civilian such as electricity. Walter, if you look at the history for especially for since the fullest on so is until now basically all we see that these real have controlled it all these basic services. I went on a very the german levels on the Supreme Court and conditions in the recess. Race Supreme Court to supply more electricity, more fuel to enable the freedom of movement and how, how it got so even to the spider, not only in the, a broad, we saw the intervention, a 5, a Supreme Court was very, very limited, which also good stuff. The, despite the end of this engagement, as well, still have so many more obligations, the based on mileage of wood. Okay, let me, let me bring it in, mach. Now if, if you, if you, if you buy a mock, you have a different perspective on this, you a in 2009. You were in garza, you were a war crimes investigator. Youre a former military officer before we talk about the specifics of whats happened in the last 10 days. How easy or difficult is your what from up a far i would assume the fact we now have social media, we have so much more video and photo evidence that helps you a great deal. Well 1st let me just open my saying that we have tax for piece are concerned with the civilian populations of both israel and costa. Whether those are is realize that are currently in gaza as captives, or if theyre palestinian doors, relatives that are currently under fire on either side of the board or indeed, social media has now become a part of the conflict and complex, as weve seen. Not only in the, in the israel god situation, but also looking at things such as ukraine is one would think would assist in what does this work, crimes investigators. But in fact, the preponderance of this information makes it very difficult. You know, i look to billing cat for example, which is an open source investigating organization in the united kingdom. And also there was, which is a, another n g on there that does open source investigations to try to determine whether or not civilians have been killed in consulate us. And their work has been greatly complicated by and is preponderance of misinformation and this information. But lets make it very clear that both moss and israel have positive obligations under International Law. Did you need the conventions to protect civilians whether they are in air strikes in the way that the air effects are planning conducted . Or if they are allowing palestinians to flee, to protect the palestinians on the ground within gaza. These are obligations under International Law and all parties are responsible for that. Jeffrey let me take you now to the specific events of the last 10 days. And 1st of october, the 7th, a carefully planned to day, she was attacked by a mass killed of a 1400 is riley, is about a 120 captains have been taken to gaza. All these will crimes. Yes. It clearly they are. They are a see example of war crimes of killing civilians and capturing them and holding them is a speech. This is an ongoing. Ready crime, and the give, this is real, a right of self defense, to pursue them, to capture them, to put them off and try it. Uh, but they are limits, obviously too bad, right . Can the time of an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth that you find in the bible is wrong gall. That seems to be and caught the user a reaction and its a wrong on their physical reaction by so jeffrey, when you, when you, when you, when you hear this complete siege, booking only electricity and water will that theyre allowing a little bit. So now back to itself, the gaza, few for fuel food medicine. Do you see that as collective punishment in his collective . Punish to mention itself is that the will crime is a war crime. I to give you the, there is a section of the room statute which precisely defines what our attempt should start base at the end of the day is the will crime in the country and all, all who show civilian supply district the civilians are law and use a war cry and the trends hold all civilians outside the country is also more crime. This was and they just but heaps they have. And it covers the american supported the tim to put the, the media and also does this uh for the miles of the country buyer. So those small, epic children, egypt and they back from mounts to transpose the civilian population outside the state. So yes. Busy a number of crimes that are in prospects. Ready we may be that the american was to bring in egypt and others are attempting to persuade the user areas not to pursue it. So we havent got to the stage yet, but we may in the next couple of days of criminal behavior by way of stopping the population for h. 2 pages. So population out to the to retreat and into the deserts of egypt, which seems to be one of the plans mock. You are clearly watching. What is going on in terms of the military efforts, bye is around you with that in 2009. This though is the deadliest, gaza bull so fall, in fact, 6000 bombs in 6 days. Thats the last time the is right. The military published a statistic thats more than the number used by the us, and its in tall backlit in against iceland. Rocca and syria, its more used in 6 days in the us used enough kind of stone in a single. Yeah. Now does that give you the view that this is probably a little crime that they are, that they all just raining bottoms on the civilian population . Well look, the obligation to protect civilians in conflict is a clear one. And uh, the really the mark of the professional military is its ability to protect civilians while it is conducting office of operations. And if the is really defense forces, believe that the laws about the conflict of interest in mandatory law is holding them back from their office of operations. Then perhaps it shows that they do not concern themselves as much with the protection of civilians and the stopping of simply the harm. And they should look, i worked in the pentagon during the iraq war and 2003 and participated in many, many dozens. If not hundreds of airstrikes and you have to understand the amount of work that goes into that into planning, identifying and validating your target. Once you have the target identify and you also have to conduct a legal analysis. The lawyers have to look at each individual target and determine whether you can strike it with distinction, meaning that youre going to hit a military object and not a civilian author, and also proportionally, right . So that the damage done whatever that damage may be, is not so widespread that the civilian apartment ways, whatever military game that youre going to get. Additionally, military is also conduct whats called the Collateral Damage estimation, in which they try to ascertain how many civilians are going to be killed in each stripe. The was beforehand, this is, im a cob calculus that is all put together prior to each individual strike. Now when we look at the piece of operations in gaza, 6000 air strikes and 6 days, thats a 1000 a day. That is an incredibly high number of strikes for such a tiny area in, in fact its, its some, you know, someone to attend to what the us military was doing in iraq for the entire country during iraq war in 2003. Now were talking about a small postage stamp, so it does raise the question and concerns of whether or not these really military is taking all feasible precautions to protect civilians and these are strikes and the strikes have continued. So son jeffrey mentioned earlier on during this theyve lost the population of the biggest contribution with in gauze, or will that it is a seat usually densely populated, all the, all of the strip. But the goal is to city on the north 1100000 people initially just 24 hours to move. I mean, is this a wall crime . I think based on the international its own or it clearly is the more crime because the last 2 important things i think this time is for us or on the a router. And when were examining it and or think august 24 d r to most important. First of all, the intense im the willing to less off is really the intent is in turn, so thats show what to destroy and how to destroy the kind of a mass to get to see the where to move. Im also the results, the most of the getting of it isnt because like just the number, the 6000 me. So we are talking about 8 days or 9 days since october is 7. Would at least 2000. So im hungry and itd be killed in glasgow while more than 1000 people where women and children we saw that i taught civilians when they were told to if i to way i saw the song about. And so when we see that there are at least 55. 00 families that are square to in total, all the family members. So most of the incentives and when we learn about one, when we re, i hear the intentions of is really officials of the minister of defense on how they are feeling these all these are indicators and exciting. The waterfront for me was just fine because of these articles in the role stuff and they were very clear, the very clear comes in as a other than the song the much. Im just thinking the distinction. The distinction between civilians are in columbus. The fullness of the intends are, is, are much more complex, the, unfortunately, the responses and the statements from what we see and hear together with those of you on offer shows, which i would like to research let go. And this is in francesca. This was the one special for tomorrow i keep by 3rd 3, said the boss if killing off in the sun is the thing the it should be, its on the here. It was the people that were killed or was the total number so far, 2700. 00. 6 in more than one month or it was 50 days the i the operational go to the end of 2014, the Jeffrey Jeffrey blair. Go on. I dont have any evidence clear that war crimes have breeding commission. We just see you, theres to, to speak the numbers we could see on television, childrens bodies being brought out. There is no question that more crimes being committed. If its genocide, thats an open question. Although that has to be genocide only 10. And thats difficult to prove. It could be that hes grad will clay, but i t t is going into guys to release those who are being held hostage or jeffrey do so jeff jeffrey. Okay on the to ation order. If you, if, if i may, just to be clear in International Law, because i think this is important, if these Ready Ministry is about to intervene, the 6, the elderly, the children, those that comp move, israel will say they gave warning, but it does it on the International Law orders is wrong, still have an obligation to protect those people. And its not that i dont think she means in as little a deep warning. What you are doing is transporting or ordering a by way of backing up your order with guns. Rock good scenario brings you uh, for a civilian population out of the country. You are forcing the coast of old. So from ben through a bold hole, it may be a tremendous terry and car door if mister blake didnt succeed domain off, that may be close to theres a way, but the force is to leave your country. And cam can live visit as refugees. And thats it. Is a war crime and many children, many people who go to connection with a mass. So a low israel has a blind to so event that is not a right a license to kill or do anything above the conduct your so with do with god to, to mandate terry in principles at 8 oclock if i could bring the balkan now as a will kind investigate so when you hear 24 health facilities, including 6 hospitals, damaged, at least 23 ambulances targeted un sites 23 sites of under the b, u, and agency. The deals with the palestinians damaged by a strikes are those things youd be investigating as well as well . Absolutely. You know, all of these issues like investigating took just to speak to the law on uh, the displacement of the population and, and giving effective warning article 57 of the 81 additional protocol, one of 1977. Its fairly clear. It says to military is that you should give, you should get warning if at all possible of use really have given warning data, in fact, given some fairly specific warnings to the population. The question is, are those realistic kind of population take them but, but more importantly, even if israel does provide warning, it does not then make it a free fire zone, right . They still have to take all the precautions that they wouldnt be taking even had they not provided that warning. So we okay, let me bring and so solve it because weve never coming to the end about the discussion. And i do want to talk about accountability because weve had already full previous. Garza was 20082009. 201220142021. The allegations of what comes in all of them. No one ever went school. Did they . Yeah. The, sorry, dont remember so, so is this a 1000, so something go ahead, please. Sorry to. Yeah, well we, we, human rights organizations have a sense the, a, 2000 since cochlan calling for investigating a wordpress. And we know all what happens with the a portion of the inquiry list. The buyers are a goal, so the goal so and but on the other hand, we know the boss time assign the a role. It started and it gave the entire man to investigate only after uh, june, 20 or sorry, july 2040. So if you wanna call for investigating wordpress, it shouldnt be by an i c c. And investigated only of the buttons from the in the, in recent recent from a year and a half ago from the a i see the houses fiction to investigate were arise. And all of us the entire to keep our posting type are included in the east jerusalem. Then i guess there should be a very clear call investigating these and crimes. I think about what we are seeing it today. And tom has come to act on opening one the decision on the rise of the political in a sense of the especially when its your sound. Thank you very much. Thank you very much. To all of our panels today, Jeffrey Robinson sounds i hear a mock glasgow hopefully perhaps like meet your more informed about the laws of war. If you want to see this problem. And again, its available to watch any time on i, which is there a dot com. You got comments about the gaza will were all covered, jump it, go to our facebook page. Thats facebook dot com formants. Forward slash a inside story where you can post. I have to remind myself another cool tweaks on x find a set at a j inside story for me, jane space and all the team here in doha. Stay safe and see. See the, the rivers normally flow into the ocean. The trout has leak into the Mighty Mississippi so much as salt water from the gulf of mexico has creeps more than 100 kilometers up stream. 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