Transcripts For ALJAZ Witness 20240703

I will area the white house at the present. Joe biden supports free speech and known that discrimination at universities. Rentals is out, university of Southern California joins us lot are. Well, whats the latest . You can tell us from the now whats happening, the pro carry, it seems that the things are about to get pretty serious here. You can see behind me the contingent of arms, police, and mixture of Campus Security officers and Los Angeles Police department. And they are mobilized here. They have there, but toms at the ready. They also have their side arms. Some of them have what appeared to be a tear gas canisters in the middle over here is a small knob of protestors who apparently have decided that they will be arrested. Now the police have given them a deadline. They say that this is private property. If they dont is 1st, they will be arrested. So there is a circle of a student protesters there and a and over here and now look, the police are chasing some of the students down in that direction. Lets move over in that area. Show you whats going on. The police have literally surrounded students on all sides of this grassy quadrangle in the center of the us see campus. Previously there was just hours of peaceful, grotesque, no violence on the part of the students whatsoever. As far as i could see now the police are almost rounded themselves by shouting and changing pros. Wed just see some aerial pictures of some countries with the security. For what extent, all universe your thoughts using accused of being heavy handed now the students are throwing water on the lease. I dont see anybody taken into custody, but there are all the lead to have their zip ties that the now there is one person who spends apparently hancock and the letter way appears to be a young woman. Why that person was singled out of the hundreds of others here i have the there are Water Bottles and these are fruit flying through the air. Elisa formed a total of the head of defensive perimeter. Lot of media here. A lot of people filming direction here. Theres a scuffle there between so policeman, women be done. Its rid of being pushed. This is happening in real time. Were right in the thick of itself. Freely parents and confused seeing here as we seem to be starting from one corner of this quadrangle to the other side, grabbing students, sometimes dispersing them off with the other directions. That circle of students that i mentioned earlier is Still Standing there with arms length of lease of not approach them yet. Please. Now moving in this direction to a real game of cat and mouse here. Lack of a better term, lee shouting, we sticking the high ground on this set of steps in front of a University Building dedicated to the international and Public Affairs. This is something that see internationally and cannot be considered a positive Public Affairs developed because the university of Southern California police are charging. C i dont really know what to tell you carry that doesnt seem to be any particular rhyme or reason for what it, why the police are moving from one place to the other. But they seem to be starting here and theyre taking what least one person is in custody. Weve been able to see there may be others as well. Right behind me are telling us that we telling all civilians they are telling us to move to the sidewalk, pushing the stay on the sidewalks or so. Okay. I guess well go to the sidewalk. Thats what the cops are saying. See what happens now to say that there are a lot of defiant students here, long defiant students who are refusing to obey the police. And the police now do appear to be clearing this area, perhaps in preparation or moving in on that central for group of students who formed a circle linked arms. But again its its difficult to say exactly what the police are, are planning to do, but they are certainly out in numbers. See if we could go whats happening over here. Thats the core group. And i think off in the distance you could see some police are moving out and perhaps making more arrest. Were just going to stay here for a minute. See what happens. Moving to try to surround the small group of students here come some placement with zip ties which will be used as hancocks. They arrest anyone told that the Campus Police of us heres sort of spearheading this. But a lot of these officers that you see in front of us now with the helmets and the black uniforms and the floods the tons. These are Los Angeles City police department. And there again, you can see a lease officer with a what appears to be a tear gas canisters or some sort of separate gas or other chemical. Here its gone. Were trying to be very careful not to impede or for both the police while at the same time getting the pictures that we need to get for you so that you can see what is actually happening here on the campus of usc. I gotta emphasize again that weve been here for hours and the protests up been completely non violent, non threatening, other advent chance in support of gaza. Demands to this invest from israel on the part of the university to cut all ties is really business with Government Entities and other entities. And changing listening to speeches by the students, faculty, members and other organizers here. But there were no disruption to property, no, no violence, no fighting between students about one upon the other, nothing like that. So this response obviously been ordered by the by the, the school administration. Theyve decided that theyre not going to tolerate protests for an indefinite period of time on school property. So, so you know that the police are for kind of a double. Why now . And there are still hundreds of students over in that direction. Now theyre on the steps with the police used to be, but the students bore close at hand, right here within a few yards of the police logans and expressing their solidarity with the band for the end of the war on the somebody is really military. I love a few kind of help e bear to watch 10. What, what do you see . Your house is going to land from what youre seeing 1st hand. How strong is the resolve of those students that we can see . The how, how, how, what is the say it again, please carry how determined dog a to stay there and see this out. Well is see behind us here, this group of students the uh, behind the police cordon. Uh they are apparently determined to undergo arrest. Oh, theyll be arrested for refusing to obey police or orders and for trespassing. I should imagine those will be the charges, but they are determined to be arrested. Other groups of use to the sides. So they are apparently going to simply witness the, the police action, whatever it consists of. But again, thats the group in the, in the center there, id say 5060 people there about students of arms linked and built behind those standing students. Another group of students who are seated on the ground also with arns linked earlier. And some students were bringing over parties of water for them. Also cartons of milk, which can be used to wash out ones eyes if one is subjected to tear it, and sprays separate sprays or tear gas or things of that nature. But the other student volunteers were collecting the telephones, the cellphones of some students who are in that circle there in order to prevent those beings seized by police. I should imagine um, but at the moment its uh, sort of a bit of a bit of a stand off here. Kerry. I know, but it doesnt reflect well, does it these images on the universitys image. I suppose its sunday. I can see policemen sort of moving from one to the other having a few words, maybe informing their Police Colleagues of whats going to happen. I wouldnt really call is necessarily riot gear, but definitely the helmets and the visors. And the clubs, those uh wooden but signs are, are part of the riot gear ensemble. The can also see the police out there. Some of them, at least there, there is just cameras on and i believe the last contact with new in del how you can try calling me again to reestablish. But were just gonna stay here for the time being. Okay. Got it. Got you back the say. Good, ok, more police move in here. Masses of police, id say there are hundreds of police here at the lease and theyre kind of tightening their ranks as well as you can see here. So theres forming a real human human wall between us and the and the protesters just moving along that human wall are Police Officers or what was so much, so make sure its in the police there. To what extent are they being accused of being heavy handed with this response . If you can hear me, well, well, well see what happens. Im sure that some students will argue that the university administration, it seems more interested in calling the police to arrest the students are studying at the university of Southern California. Rather than allowing a peaceful protest to continue the spice, the poor, best value and sacred this as it were in the University Setting of this. The concept of freedom of speech. This peaceful protest is, is definitely under threat here. I dont know how the Public Relations fallout is going to be about heavy handed this i think that will all depend on what the police do next. Jerry this is an unprecedented moment in the history of this campus. Protest of the war on gaza. Okay, nice. Stay with this, the full that so continue developing story about because earlier i spoke to jody, im more professor of low at usc and he says anti semitism should not be recognized. And we had lots of juries and muslims and palestinian fantastic. I am privacy, su, intergenerational coming together the everybody should hate anti semitism and fight any semitism, but be opposed to israel slaughter and gaza that the, that the union is said that it may possibly be genocide does not, does not mean that youre anti semitic. And the need to stop allowing people to a webinar and the semitism against real valid protests. Meanwhile, attorney, siri is a professor of Global Leadership history and public policy, or university of texas. He says, across town, the product to assist and uniting demonstrate is similar to the Anti War Movement in the 19 sixtys. The irony is that this kind of behavior by the police only increases the resolve of students. I cannot tell you how many students more than 15 to 20 that i spoke with who i saw at this event. Some of my students, i know, were students who are apathetic or may have even been favorable to the israeli side in the arguments. And they see the Police Acting this way and it leads them to become more radical. And this is the story of the 19 sixtys in our society were replying that when the Police Attack students in this way, it makes other students sympathize with those were attacked. Not the attackers, but i believe that University President s including my own at the university of texas, are afraid they are afraid that they are going to be criticized and condemned by politicians by the governor of texas by members of congress. Theyre, theyre afraid theyre going to be condemned for allowing anti semitism and im against anti semitism to on jewish myself. So i think anti semitism is horrible when there has been too much of it. But this, the president s are over reacting. And what theyre doing is theyre creating an environment in which no one is allowed to say anything that sounds critical in any way of israel or any other topic. And theyre making it impossible for students to express themselves dont handle. And it has more of a student process taking place at Columbia University in new york. The Columbia University has a long legacy of protests from the vietnam war. So the present, it is in many ways the epicenter of the american student protest movement. But theres now a low at the center of this particular storm. And thats because after a 100 students were arrested out here, the university has given them a reprise until midnight thursday as talks go on between student protesters and the university. Earlier on wednesday, mike johnson, the speaker, the us house of representatives came and he spoke to jewish leaders in the school. And he condemned the protest movement here and across the United States. But the president of university minutia feet is looking for a way out. And one reason may be the president here in 1968, another president of Columbia University, called out police, who violently cleared out demonstrators that was the end of his stormy tenure. John henry l. G 0 new york was demonstrates as in support of products. Students are still camped on the Columbia University campus in new york. We cost it, Police Arrested more than a 100. 00 of them. The action that has attracted international attention, sympathy demonstrations across the country and controversy present. Salumi has more Columbia University officials spacing, mounting criticism from all sides over its handling of student demonstrators. Prominent republican politicians after meeting with some jewish students on campus called on the University President to resign as colombia has allowed these lawless agitators and radicals to take over. The virus of anti semitism is spread across other campuses by some count as many as 200 universities have a similar form of protest right now. Students who faced arrest in suspension say theyre the ones who need protection. Many are afraid to show their face. Theres, theres definitely a fear of, you know, being attacked and the risk of like losing Career Opportunities and stuff, which is really a shame that people willing to, you know, advocate for human rights are smeared in such a way. Nevertheless, they are vowing to continue their encampment. Student organizers say they have 3 demands for the university. Number one, disclose their investments in israel, number 2, divest from them. And number 3, provide amnesty for students who have been suspended. They say they wont leave the grounds until that happens. Many have compared their actions to what happened on campus in 1968, when columbia students held students to demand and to the universities connection to the vietnam war. And were arrested sparking nationwide demonstrations credited with us as eventually withdrawal from the war. And the students do have the support of many jewish students and faculty, and i do not feel that this project is anti semitic in any way. I do feel that the students are highly critical of israeli politics. And i do not believe that that is inherently anti semitic at all. And i do not feel threatened as a jewish faculty member in any way, by whats happening here on this campus, except by the arrest of many of our students. The university has warned students to take down their and cabinet by friday morning, or face on specified consequences. Christian salumi alger 0 new york, a robot knows its still at the university of Southern California and joins us live again. Well, whats happening now . The still in this strange very word, lisa, pretty much gone straight to all the forces that direction in front of the administrative building. And in the center of gravity area, you can see behind the line of weights, the protest. This is apparently, we believe are determined that they have determined that they will be arrested. They are, theyre going to use there is that a continued exercise their right, so freedom of assembly until they are arrested by Los Angeles Police officers for the security. So far they havent moved in on the floor roof. Meanwhile, there are thousands of other students all around here. And some of the chances are some of them are just watching see what happens and find some of them expressing their solidarity. Others, many of those buildings with their cameras videotaping, whats going on . So thats what it, what its like right here, right now were just waiting to see what the next mentioned. We are. The cons are flops, billy watts, fear gas or other chemical device. Project firing devices as well so hopefully nothing like 0 a phase one of the for the hours spent on campus watching the demonstration is on these 2 graphs, excuse me. Otherwise but weve had enough waiting for the next row i ended up until this point. You obviously can hear me with all the noise in the background, but this has been a peaceful protest, hasnt it . The thats correct. Carry a set of tests without any violence or disruption of properties. Theres been no reps against police other students that weve been. No, just a despite sort of shopping mattress or anything of that nature. Its just been chanting. Speech making, holding up signs waving palestinians flags, and expressing their demands that the university cut off all contact with any israeli entities. Also, any companies that provide weapons to do is really hard for us and also expressing their demand for and, and what they say is genocide. Weve got the real form jocelyn expressive solidarity is it tells me is it saying that the house night you can free chance that familiar chance to see some your students and. Busy realize they also is the very chance those words represent anti semitism. Others here, especially the students that professes that ive spoken to say that that is not the case. This is instead of accepting but its not represent red file. Theyve been using the form for several hours now. Theyre all but how strong is the result of the students that youve been speaking to the very, very strong. They say that they are going to stay here until their demands are met. And there is existing students that are willing to undergo being arrested. The hancock process probably spending some time by far as part of their commitment to this to this pause. And theyre all supported by many, many other places in here, boise, their support. So its a pretty small committee, but it, is there any sense to to know how the north is University Fair is, is thinking, what are they thinking, going to. Its difficult to say, what does they gave me. Obviously, they mentioned this deployment of Los Angeles City, least onto the grounds, to background, to all this and what really rage activated many students here on campus dates back to last weeks chairs when the university 1st at 1st extended the opportunity to a young female. Most of the students, us not to boston to make a valedictory address for she was really one of our read waiting for graduation ceremonies for me. But then i have Online Campaign against tassel, saying that i submitted without whats happened in university t v into the opportunity to speak as well and different speakers there was and how fry on that and stuff. Just cancel the oldest graduate thinking maybe that would solve the problem with it. Obviously have a chance that the students say let them go let themselves, let them go. And again, just want to show you this proud 6 gather here. Are drumming, chanting, waving flags, and on the other side, circle officers. Very. Theyre not on the side. See now you can see now over there, the man and the feeling structured in a little way. Right there to be the star. Right to rest the process. Hes been take it away, please have sort of all of the media and other people out of this type circles around the corner. The the president of the university has come under considerable preference design for name is carol was on the on the list of demands and committees. They want her the, as the result, is that the situation with ok now for students the young woman is being led away. Apparently the police. Glad to take them one by one. No one is resisting arrest that i can see what happens to them after theyre hand tough with these plastic and zip size of the letter way. Theres a certain care even put on some cheese france, the bosses they take into the sewage. Okay, were gonna leave it there as so as one projectors let away in the zip type hand tubs and others are now also being arrested. You can see that in there. It is. There it is. Another person being brought away. Believe it not what you will be here for the rest of the carry back to you. Okay, well thanks very much indeed that university of Southern California to with those protests and the stand off between police and protest. Thats all for me. For now, the news continues here, notes, theyre off to the bottom line. In a post colonial world, the scholars of european imperialism run the nowhere more so than in the democratic republic of congo. Wherever restrict history still shapes the presence of the serial instruments inside to the eyes of a whistle blower and the patriarch Ministry Come on. Witness presents. This is come on just the same direction is deliberate, over 300000000. 00. Will suffice. Emboldened 75. 00 countries around the world, 100 percent of sex on an emergency donation spence on projects. We insure beneficiaries come 1st of a 300. 00 on luis hobbins. It goes through the roof, the crossing in recent months. Our most of these bless and be blessed and we all turning your donations into direct delivery in the shortest possible time donates with confidence. Hi, im Steve Clements and i have a question. Israels war on god thatd be coming a forever war. And now with an exchange of direct attacks between iran and israel is itd be coming a dangerously expanding conflict. Lets get to the bottom line. The. It wasnt limited strike, but the rubicon has been crossed. One launched a few 100 drones and missiles and israel after Israel Attacked in Iranian Diplomatic Mission in syria and killed some of it stop generals. Then israel fired rockets into iran, not doing significant damage, but nonetheless, and get this. Israel and iran are now overly targeting each others homelands. Directly. It prove that the rules of the game in the middle east are changing, especially after israel responded to a rons response, and with the failure of the worlds big powers, especially the United States to achieve a ceasefire and gaza is further escalation, inevitable. Today were talking with some of my dc professor of history at the university of california and author of faith misplaced the broken promise of us error relations and ality via the wrong project director at the International Crisis group. Thank you both for joining us today. Let me just start with you. Allie. You wrote a week ago, oppression articles, thing in the middle east could still explode. This was before israel had launched a rock into the wrong, i might call that, you know, strike, given the little damage. Is one sort of a polite strike after this, but what his change now in the, not only in the gaza israel crisis, but in the regional dynamics, particularly between iran and israel. Its good to be with you, steve book in any geostrategic composition. The most dangerous moment is when the party start changing the rules of the game is, are across the line by attacking your honest consulate in damascus. And then iran cross the line for the 1st time in the past 45 years by directly attacking israel from its own territory. So a, now israel has a 4th responded, but it has responded still in a limited and stealthy fashion, which i think still falls within the previous rules of the game of combat thing. Iran in the grey zone of their competition. So one can conclude that this chapter is closed, but im not sure if the parties have the same understanding of what are the new red lines. What are the new rules of the game and in that ambiguity, i think there is plenty of space for miscalculation. And of course the approximate cause for these tensions which was the war and gaza is ongoing and there is currently no ends inside. And so there is still plenty of risk for expansion of that conflict and regional conflagration. I know youve just said that this chapter is probably close, but what is the next chapter look like potentially in the region given the fact that the underlying instability with cause it continues. There are plenty of risk. First of all, we still dont know for sure. If the attack that is ro, as conducted on iran binding 3 messiahs into a military base and its behind it is a one off or is it previewed for more to tax the com that is still not clear. Second, at some point israel would enter into rafa. I think that seems inevitable. And when that happens, given the humanitarian situation in gaza, it is quite possible that we would see increase tensions iranian back to groups in iraq and syria. My resume attacks on us forces that they have now stop since late february. And there is also the possibility that at certain points we would see a complex ration between israel and his butler. I mean, they are now so at a lower level of complex, but i think these rays are extremely uncomfortable. Living right next door to his bullets capability is given the trauma of october 7th. And if it ends up in a confrontation with his beloved, again, a given the unclear new rules of the game, there is a risk of another round of escalation with iran. And now that both parties have done unprecedented things targeting you try to directly, i think the risks are much higher and both the running is real, by the way, have demonstrated in the past few weeks that they dont have a clear understanding of one another. I think its now clear that israel target it runs consulate, expecting that iran would just absorb the attack and would not respond. And iran targeted israel, thinking that is ro is not going to respond, which in both cases have turned out to be an accurate a professor, my dc. I really just a couple of months before october 7th, there was this active period of diplomacy around expanding potentially the abraham accords, perhaps greeting a normalization between saudi arabia and israel. Tell us about how normally october 7th, but the ron is real exchange. Tell us what the middle east looks like now at this moment compared to 9 months ago as well. I mean obviously it depends where you are in the middle east, but the starting and gaza. I mean, its ground 0 for a, a catastrophe, a genocide that the United States has funded equipped apologize for enabled, continued essentially. So you were asked that the beginning of the forever war is quite clear that this war has been going on on the palestinians for decades and decades since the neck above 1948. And arguably, since the creation of the british mandate in palestine, and as long as that sort of that core issue, the issue of the injustice of the palestinians, the issue of the oppression, the issue of their state looseness, the total abandonment by the United States. Of course, by israel, but also by the arab states of the palestinians. If not, continues, were going to see more and more of this conflict. So i think thats the situation thats the, thats the, thats the, the tinderbox that, that leads to the kinds of continual flareups that we see in other parts of the middle east. There are other conflicts, obviously that are not tied necessarily to pa this time, but the core issue has to be resolved. And weve seen a massive, extraordinary failure of leadership, of imagination and frankly, of racism on the part of the United States towards the palestinians. So thats where we are right now and the wrong and israel and their sort of shadow or, and their direct whereas your other guests are, they just mentioned. Thats just another element of escalation in an already intolerable situation. Now we know that there had been findings within the state department that indicates that certain is really military units have engaged, potentially, and extra judicial killings and other human rights violations, into specific individuals and Companies Inside the israeli forces. I guess my question to you is, given the fact that there had been so such a little moving and such little success by the president the United States even in trying to re stain is real. Even trying to restrain is real on this issue of attacking iran. What is the us hand and this any more from your perspective . I mean the us hand is direct and total complicity. Its not that the us can restrain, as well as the us doesnt restraint. Israel, after all, i mean, and you could say, there are domestic reasons for that. There is a lobby. There is ideology, there is, there is whatever. There are many Different Reasons why the us doesnt strain israel, but its not that the us cant restrain israel. I think the, the bottom line of all this is that there is been a consistent us policy of marginalizing the palestinians, ignoring public sending oppression, ignoring publicity and suffering, trying to build a regional sort of architecture of domination that ignores the people of the region. All the peoples of the region, frankly, their democratic aspirations, their desires to be free, and instead to sort of cement the relationship between arab despotism on the one hand. And israel, which oppresses and colonize as the palestinians on the other. And the issue really goes back to decades of u. S. Foreign policy in the sense that the us feels and is felt for decades. That it can get away with, with the basic form in that which is extracting petroleum and, and dominating the middle east, strategic geographic areas at the same time, forcing israel, as it is, as it reveals itself to the entire world today. On the hour populations, irrespective of their wishes, irrespective of their desires, irrespective of the desires of freedom. And so far, they feel theyre able to maintain this, this policy. And until that changes, were not going to see any kind of peace or any kind of security or any kind of stability, frankly, in the middle east, you cannot build stability on the basis of profoundly immoral, unstable foundations alley. Um somebody said something that caught my eye ear and very important i think that even arab states have been somewhat on the sidelines of this conflict, have not taken actions that would necessarily lead to a resolution of justice and, and, and substantial statewood for palestine. I guess my question is were writing now potentially making a mistake of completing the is really wrong conflict with the as rare is real guys a conflict. Theyre both happening at the same time. I look at them in a as an escalation from israels perspective. But how high on the priority map for iran is the palestinian crisis . And unfortunately, i think the palestinian cause is a tool for iran, iran in the early 19 eighties in the midst of the wrong iraq war. Realize that its a strategic solitude is, is basically disastrous. For the regime, but it really didnt have a lot of options through games for teaching the depth and to be able to project our beyond as borders as a persian nation, surrounded by arabs and turks. And as a she a nation surrounded by sunny the one thing that allow that steve to project power and transcend all of these inherent limitations, was the palestinian cause, which was left on the ground by the arabs, but by run has instrumental lives. And it doesnt necessarily mean that iranians are too concerned about the palestinians well being. And i think in fact, the one thing that is real could do that would undermine iran for within the region. Was to do exactly what osama was talking about to try to actually come to a Sustainable Settlement with the policy. And that will be a nightmare scenario. I remember steve, when the Trump Administration was putting the deal of the century on the table to to resolve those really patterson and crisis the sooner the official told me. After looking at the package. This is great for iran because there is nothing in it for the palestinians, meaning that the opposites would actually we can iran position in the region. And i also want to Say Something about the us as role, at least on the strategic level. Its very interesting that in the past few weeks since is really attack on iran and consulate in damascus. The us and in fact has tried to prevent the expansion of this conflict. It has been now we know in direct and indirect contact with the ryans, there was literally a hotline establish true amman, so that iran and us could coordinate when iran was going to strike israel to try to limit the casualties and the damage so that it doesnt spiral out of control and clearly what is or it has done in response, if its a one off, is all also limited, which i dont think would have been achieved without us pressure. So although i agree with a lot of out of somerset, but i think the binding ministration deserves a bit of credit for trying to maintain, can contain these tension or somebody want to respond to that. Yeah, sure, of course, i mean, i mean the bodily ministration deserves credit for allowing the genocide to continue for now as you sat at the outset of your show for 7 months. So im not sure what kind of credit one gives the button illustration. Clearly the United States does not want a regional war and the sense of expanding their theyre fine with having the palestinians be slaughtered before our eyes. The west just be towards yesterday or the day before. The Security Council resolution sort of advancing Palestinian Statehood as nominal, and thats the radical and its conceptual that that is in theory the us claims to be for a 2 state solution yet us policy is characterized by essentially on the one hand, i know that extraordinary degree of anti palestinian racism and on the other hand, a ludicrousness in terms of its contempt for its own statements to state solution peace in the middle east ability and everything the west seems to do is to pretend that somehow you can build the stable middle east without resolving the palestinian question and then to at least point about the the business of even using the palestinian cause as a tool. I think the word he uses tool. Now i dont doubt that the iran, like the irish states previously. Instrumental lies all states instrumental as all sorts of issues. So i dont doubt that whatsoever. On the other hand, i think the more salient question that one should answer is why is the tool there to begin with . Why is there a palestinian cause to begin with . Whats the history, why other palestinians left it in, in the extraordinarily unacceptable situation that they are . Why does it run . And before iran, iraq, and before iraq, egypt and before, you know, all these other states, syria, all these states have used the power, the new question precisely because there is something extraordinarily immoral and ethical that everybody in the region. And i, i would argue today, everybody in the world honestly can see is unacceptable and want to end. And so, of course, states use every piece of leverage. They can every tool so to speak, they use, but they use it because these tools exist and we should focus, rather than on trying to is to say that theyre just using the tools, understand why the tool is there and why people, why, why it creates such and such a sense of injustice in the middle east among arabs for sure. But also i suspect among many iranians as well, im almost certain of that. So im a, take me for one further step, you know, in the abraham accords. It was an effort we saw in our, in the lab, essentially of trying to find normalization strategies in the region without resolving the palestine conflict. Has that palestine conflict now resonated with the so called error st. So much and created distance within those governments. Those monarchies and those government arrangements within each of these arrows states. You know, im thinking of jordan, which has a, a normalization peace treaty with, with israel. And youre seeing on the street major protest demanding that the government suspend its relationship with israel. What is the distance now, the dynamic within each of these governments that this guy is a crisis, has caused, is causing the abraham record, is an insult to, to, to the common revere tradition of all the spiritual, of all the ecumenical, and the desperate coexistence in our part of the world, its really a relationship between an expansionist as well that doesnt pretend nothing to who is very clear. They dont want to give the palestinians freedom or the state. And arab states that are based on despotism. Based on the fact that there is a huge gap between our populations as much as towards the palestinians. Its also domestically, theres no democracy. Theres no freedom in most of our world if i can, across the error in the world. And its not absolute to them. And despotism, that is the us requirement for a so called Peace Process that is based on marginalizing the palestinians. So i agree with all the us was genuinely concerned with the ability weve actually making the middle east a prosperous place, right. They would certainly have pushed for a Peace Process that actually solves once and for all right. The palestinian question nally. I want to ask about President Biden and americas brand and American Power is perceived in the region. You know, i had this frame that america is perceived as an all powerful player, a very powerful player in this, but seemingly impotent when it comes to really influencing the course of israel. How does the ron you watch it one more than anyone else . I know how does the ron look at American Leadership at this moment . Does it look at it added is as if its floundering, does it look at it as if its being directed as this . Is this hugging of israel during this crisis after october 7th enhancing americans brand in the region and making us look more submit for middle or is around looking at us as tied down into something we cant manage to. Yvonne certainly looks at the United States at this moment as a great power that is bogged down in so many crises around the world. That is basically getting the wrong closer to the strategic objective, that the stomach of public has always had which has to eventually evict the us from that part of the world. They see the reluctance of the us to use its own military muscle. They see the inability of the United States to deal with much lesser power, like israel and ally, that is completely dependent on the United States to influence decisions. Whether its because to address the humanitarian situation that will mama oh, that was on the was writing and talking about, or whether its the uh, you know, trying to rain in israel from doing things that would then endanger us troops in the region. The attack on iran and console that absolutely could have been danger or further escalation could endanger us forces in the region. But you see also on the other hand, the reality that at the end of the day, iran is a much less or ministry. Power is under the most stifling sanctions that the us has ever imposed. Busy its that were threatening more sanctions now. Absolutely bad and do those sanctions bother iran and iran leadership . Do they convey uh, basically a sense that, that it runs options are truly being curtailed by the United States in this, or is this something that they can slough off . Look uh, without any doubt, the sanctions have a devastating impact on the run in economy. And theres no doubt about it, but the regime has survived. Its not driving, but uh, you know, with additional sanctions basically we think get the dial of sanctions, but it is currently 8 out of 10, maybe from 9 out of 10. But that one extra date degree is not going to be a game changer. And if you look across the board as a result of the sanction iran has more aggressive in the region. More repressive at home, as Nuclear Program is closer than ever to the verge of a weaponized nation. Which by the way, what has happened over the course of the past few months, i think is pushing down further and further in that direction. Because the regional and the parents clearly has not the 3rd israel, their conventional ministry capabilities cannot defend their own territory in front of much powerful adversaries like the us or the United States. But if you look at the impact of sanctions, they have not achieve their objectives and that extra degree is not going to be a game changer assignment. We just solve this kabuki act in the United Nations Security Council where the us vetoed an effort to give call for full Palestinian Statehood. But at the same time, every Senior Us National Security and diplomatic official and the president United States say, the only way out of this is the 2 state solution. Are you convinced that all that President Biden really believes in a 2 state solution just shows you the kind of levels of, of, of us policy in the middle east that seem to be at one level. And this is what we should be talking about. It seems to be far less about the kind of objective reading of the us in the middle east. And what is interests are in the middle east and much more about a whole range of, of, of domestic pressures and considerations that are put on us administrations time. And time again, as well as audiology, as well as all sorts of other reasons why that us does what it does in the middle east because of us could have been theory long time ago put pressure to resolve. This is the palestine question, but the west has chosen not to and then at the same time it claims to one day to state solution precisely because they understand that whats happening on the ground right now is an effect, a one state solution, a one state. Whereas some people have rights and the most people have either limited rights or no rights. The alley im gonna give you the last word. The United States during the Trump Administration did violate the agreement of the jcp away by withdrawing from that and moving forward. And im interested as, as someone who worked so vigorously on trying to get a 3rd option as opposed to a p using iran or a war with iran trying to create a 3rd 3rd way here. Do you think that were now back on a collision course with a run as president obama feared we might be if we didnt get Something Like the g. C. P. O. In place . Are we back in a Railroad Collision course . From your perspective. We are opposite as they were really getting close to an Inflection Point that i think if in the next administration, regardless of who the next president is. If we can find a diplomatic solution to this crisis. I think the 2 options that president obama warned about a 10 years ago of whether its a deal or a conflict with once again come to the 4 and we would be faced. But that unpalatable choice choice on both sides with one difference. Steve, the now as a result of president from unwise decision to re neck, the 2015 agreement, iran has significantly more leverage then it had in 2015. And it will be so much more difficult to put the program back in a box. And under the most rigorous monitoring that has a, has ever been established. And, and in other words, present from took rosin for program out of that box and put it in the microwave. And basically there is no going back. So we will, we can never get a deal that was as good as the 2015 deal and digesting that i think for washingtons political environment is going to be extremely difficult to agreeing to the wrong having a much larger capacity and also offering sanctions relief to an Iranian Regime that is on the wrong side of the water in ukraine or whats happening in, in uh, in the middle east is going to be politically even cost. Therefore, the next step is, well, look, i want to thank you both. You sounded like the c u. C. Berkeley, professor of history and ally as iran project director at the International Crisis group. Thank you both so much for being with us today. So whats the bottom line . Tit for tat escalation may not happen right away. Like in the movies, but everything in the middle east is just getting much more complicated and dangerous for us president joe biden. It seems to me hes just gotten used to being ignored after pleading with his real, to not respond to in rons attacks. It did, but as long as he so deeply entwined with his real, it will be on his side no matter what joe biden matters less. Meanwhile israels anxieties will get worse, killing almost 15000. 00 palestinian children and gaza plus 10000. 00 women and 10000. 00 men has not made it feel more safe and secure. And being bombarded by has the law on a daily basis definitely doesnt help. And the more trigger, happy israel gets, the more queasy iran gets driving forward is Nuclear Program, which in turn triggers in arms race in the region. We saudi arabia in the market for Nuclear Capabilities these days. In the meantime, gaza boyles in despair and injustice in what looks like a conflict without ad. So its hard to see much Getting Better for a long, a very long time. And thats the bottom line, the the hello stone cloud. So gathering now would cross the great plains of the us, every crowd is moving out of the way quite to weather coming in for a time, a lowly eastern sable. But areas of low pressure will run the way across the west and pa, sorry, but the rock is not the middle system developing severe storms here through wes last night and friday and they become more widespread as we go 12 volts the we can as you can see right across the plains, the plains sink some heavy down, pulls right down into the deep south. Further east, it is generally settled and sunny, but these showers could cause some flooding. We could say that your tonight, i writes in that winds all side picking up as well as increasing winds could. And how is the far risk down towards the southwest . Scattering of wintry, shy with me while i live with a rocky this, im gonna go ahead pushing right up towards the northwest. Meanwhile, we have got to good scattering a shower as a rule article, central areas of the caribbean. Still some heavy down pulls that into hispaniola that eastern side of the car, being generally set fast, but we could catch a shower to just type it towards barbados. Trinity that maybe seeing a shower as it goes through friday. And also i noticed a little more in the way of showering right across southern parts of central america. As the one of the biggest elections of 2024 in the general election will administer now render movies be taking increases fruit across the country. How will Economic Uncertainty and youve sent employment suede boots as in key states, and will the media be able to come of a freebie unfairly. Ongoing coverage in the selections on out is the era. Indonesia is building a new capital city. Deep in the jungles of borneo, the 1st part of the original open across the nation. But not every one supports the idea any i could pass along with them when we had, we see this as an authoritarian decision. 1. 00, oh, 1. 00 east, where deals indonesia using a mega sitting on out to 0. The police clear out student protests is demonstrating against israel is one concept as compass process. Sprint. The carrie jones to this is i dont just hear a lot from the house are coming out. The wifes house joins the clothes from the e. U and the un demonte an explanation from mass graves. Founding guns multiple is