Hello and welcome to the program and the bulk of the International Community has debated Palestinian Statehood for decades. Full membership of the United Nations would effectively recognize that sweeping support of the General Assembly is the 1st step. But the final seal of approval come to some of the un Security Council. Last month, the United States have vetoed a resolution table by algeria and says it will do so we can. So count the maureen, weights of World Opinion reflect to the un General Assembly pressure of the us to reconsider what difference could the backing of a 143 nations make to palestine to non men. But special observer status will explode these and other issues. So i guess in a moment profess the support bi, catch a lopez taught in condemnation of israels neuron. Garza has led to protest like these from santa, in the human to jordans capital. A mon rallies in solidarity with palestinians. The 1st 2 colt and us universities have spread around the world. And at the United Nations, the General Assembly voted over willingly to grant new rights and privileges to palestine. Its also calling on the Security Council to reconsider palestine sped to become a full union member. We want peace, we want freedom, and yes vote is about for the palestinian existence. It is not against an estate. Israel says the move is absurd, especially after her mazda is attack on october, the 7th. While using a prop, the is really impasse that are said, the resolution disregard you in statute. You are reading the your in charts or with your own hands. Yes, yes. Thats what youre doing. Writing, do you on charter . A shame on you. The un vote may be widely symbolic, but it comes as country such as spain, ireland, and other evil members plan to formally recognize the state of palestine on may 20. First. The International Community overwhelmingly overwhelmingly saying that i want that long term resolution to the conflict and that, that involves 2 states. Despite new rights and privileges. Palestine remains a non member observer, say that the un without the right to vote. And the us has made is clear, it will use that to feed all power to blog post in, in membership and statehood until the important issues are resolved with israel capielo pacific. Again, how do 0 for insights story the quite well that spring, and i guess now from a room where joined by jeffrey sachs, hes a full, im a special advisor to the you and 60 general now the director of the center for Sustainable Development at Columbia University and romano most of about go see is the general secretary of the Palestinian National initiative and in london is youll see macro back and associate fellow at the middle east and north Africa Program at the same time. Chatham house of i will welcome to well see if you welcome to a inside story. Youll see, i wonder if i can start with you if you could help us set the scene. Because until now, palestine has only held the status of an observer at the un. What is the pulsing, the overwhelming pulsing office, set your resolution . What does that mean in terms of the rights and privileges of forwarded to palestine . Now in science a product doesnt change too much because its the secure with the concept of that site. So theres a notion will actually be through a recognition as a states. But i think symbolically it is a very important, it is important step forward in the reach of molding. Hundreds and salty states actually very clearly declared that in going to see probably style and recognize as, as, as, as a state. And at the same time, its known to everyone that the only country that blocks a ballistic and states would from being good information in the back of the nice is the United States. What of the United States is moving slowly in different direction when it comes to its relation . So were still active states, i think moving towards sets and probably a in the, if this is the direction we might say, the United States also to one point to another, hopefully soon phone. And whats the General Assembly just said yesterday in the recognizable listing and states . Hi, jeffrey, following up from that amongst some of the rights and privileges now forwarded. The palestinians has the right to be seated among member states, alphabetically ability also to submit proposals that amendment star ret cleared without having to do it through another country. As you will see says, so these are, these seem to be a slight move forward when it comes to what the posting of states is really looking forward to is this largely symbolic that as well. Its important, its more than symbolic. It demonstrates were World Opinion is overwhelmingly, and it is correct. The United States is the sole obstacle actually not only to palestine membership in the United Nations as the 194th member. But actually, United States has the sole ops to go on my view to peace in the region. Because with the membership with sovereignty, with the implementation now they globally recognize state on the 1967 borders with capital and East Jerusalem and control over these land mccauley. Sites there would also be the ability to have peace with the countries of the region as in the air, a peace initiative, and then the era but and as like a leadership statement and who re odd last november. So the United States has found a way blocking a palestinian state. Its blocking piece, its blocking piece on behalf of a radical extremist, a violent is re government, which is committing a massive war crimes. So uh and quite likely the i, c, j will rule a genocide. This is what the United States is enabling right now. Its absolutely distressing for me as an american, to see this young people, people on my campus were a guest at what the disadvantage gratian is doing. I said, certainly, all of this conversation at ega, this, by the 2 of you have spoken so far, to focus on the obstacles that are clearly in the way when it comes to publish times full membership. Well, before we go into the obstacles, i must offer turning to you if this decision for the un means anything is where you are, your reaction to what played out to the you and as well. It means a lot the besides the symbolic aspect of it, it sends a message, a very powerful political message. The world is full, right . That ice was published in used to be free for the amount to pay stream from the system of apartheid from this started. But the general side that is happening on the line we are talking by the way that isnt it is committing kind of a domestic us at this very moment. And thats fine. And inside does the city and as a, to a neighborhood. And in japan, you trying to, if they click lens one more time japan your area. So of course, the whole world just sending a very powerful message to you that they dont accept whats happening to better students. But more than that, i think this a lot that took place exposed to how are you so late to the United States on visitor . And youll have to remember that the United States of america, this you as bio and is a good not to mobilize more than 3. Come to this to work with them on sending the others are hello mike going easy are much rely on is it is and United States itself. I mean with all due respect, these little islands, dont really miami. I mean, we all know that they, they, they, what, according to what the American Students saw up in the attitude, this is huge eyes relation of, of the american post. Right . One moment please. And also it shows how i relate to the fact that the United States have stuck to the membership in there. And i did mention Security Council, it is totally unacceptable. Im the saying that right . Absolutely. We will delve no doubt into us obstruction as you say. I want to the practically speaking with stuff uh, given what is played out of the you and whether practically this makes any difference to the suffering of palestinians in gaza on palestinians and the occupied westbank a not a lot of the not enough sort of fluid. Its very little if you compare it to what needs to be done, nothing else behavior in uh on data mining. What was it possible that good event sort of cease fire when harm us accepted what was proposed to them by the United States, egypt and after they were told that is an acceptance and was from us accepted. This is the mind. Its a, im nothing you know initiated is enough, i hope, but ition which was not to be limited to the eastern side, but not the thought. And he already expanded it into other areas and im sure he will not stop him to leave finishes the destruction of what i which means this direction for those guys a strip. The only thing that would stop nothing, you know, is sanctions immediately there has to be a military sanctions that it has to be kind of exemptions that it has to be the actions by all these governments that kept telling us for the last 2 months. The data against the investor doing nothing when he is going to think this step in muster could, im talking about you to be honest, im talking about and i just states of america im talking about even though out of countries, this has to be stopped. And it can be sold all of the, with the immediate functions doing this. Right, right. Let me bring it in there and youll see because said katie, as weve heard that from the stuff up practically on it. So this and han stage of the un this and han status for our product. Stein of the un. What on his own make much of a difference, a tool without a multi pronged approach. Sanctions is something of cost of the stuff or reiterate to that. But does this, does this though at least paved the way for full membership sometime in the not too distant future. Youll see. I think it fits the foot here. When i say symbolic symbolism in diplomacy is important, and i think it sends a clear message what there was things i think again, we have edging closer to recognition for what we mean. Some practices that by the student and state existing 11 shape or form, its about the recognition. So it says that there is leadership only know, we know the territorial 4th is a future, a listing and states. So this, this is the, its about how he political nights and how he changes the relations between and at home, the negotiation type. And when he eventually comes between these items and, and palestinians know, but at the same time, the most important thing right now is to stop the war. Because this is not going to change or the period of 5 find the paper of the guys and doing cuz i know this is the, this doesnt stop set to the finance, this is doesnt bring us much closer into ending this conflict best. So the concentration should be so difficult condition by the starting offer state is important as file to fit much big move to fall to the peace process. And the police do know by listening to your very, very key to talk about the obstacles in the way of palestine becoming a full member of the you and the turning to you jeffrey, the main stumbling bulk. As weve said, remains that the un Security Council, where just remind all view is at least 9 affirmative votes and no veto from any of the 5 permanent members is required. The problem is weve all said, hey, so the moment a key member of the United States repeatedly vote against recognizing the palestinians as a independent state, claiming it would be, quote, home full for peace jeffrey. Can you explain what they mean by harmful piece . The rationale behind this of us, the politics is dominated by the israel lobby. Its very simple. I, the washington Political Class has cited with israel no matter what israel has done up to and including genocide, its not complicated, but the American Public is against is the young people are shocked. Dismayed and out on the campuses across the country. And then the congress and the administrators of these universities bring into place to bash their heads and to call and the place. So this is extremely unpopular in the United States, but this is a Political Class that is, i really guy led by the israel lobby. I think what is important is the whole more i make clear to the United States. You alone are blocking piece. Now this is a what do i, the Palestinian Ambassador said yesterday at the u. N. And a very powerful speech and bassett, or re a bunch or in a very eloquent and powerful speech. These railey ambassador guy i, earhart, gave the single worst and most disgraceful speech that i recall and listening to hundreds of speeches in the un General Assembly. During the past 25 years of my work with the un. Absolutely a speech of hate and a speech of war. Uh and uh, but he was counting on uh, a Political Class in washington that it will stand by israel. It wont stand by israel right long under this because the American Public opinion is absolutely against this and for absolutely good reason. Lets turn to the software again because the us has also claimed that the recognition of Palestinian Statehood would, quote, undermine efforts to resume negotiations between its railways. Palestinians essentially rewarding the palestinians for whipping up International Pressure on israel and effectively rewarding the armed, waiting or from us as a lot of jihad and other groups for carrying out violence. What you make of this argument by the United States and stuff or the for the hypocrites, is it so such an amount of a focus you one day nighted states and some European Countries keep talking about the 2 state solution and advocate for the 2 state solution and at the same time doesnt do not even nice bye bye. And not only that, they do not say that is a must and this will q based on those by the senior. This is land does not input. So commission, how can we have a states, where do we have it in the dashboard or im to the, im not saying that is it a must dismantle all systems that exist now in the west bank without angels. And without that, we will not have a blessed thing and state. So what you see here is a huge amount of boxes see by these countries. Thats all they do by talking about posted solutions. All they mean is to give it a more time to continue the process of set them into building. And so im an extension of the west bank. Im kidding. So theres any possibility of about a city and state. Look at whats happening there, is that our thoughts, there is this, it is a lucian. And then i took nations which is this paper. But in the end, if you, on the ground what theres nothing you all doing. Hes gloss, think off the story, and i need to find the context between me, but this thing and, and any other country by taking over enough or, and the sink with egypt. This is one of the destructive acts that is aiming, appealing to the possibility of a 2 state solution. So this american position on from europe in positions of nothing but the hypocrisy, they are hypocritical and to speak only about 2 states without tickles. And i think that the thing is deep and one more thing. I think when the whole and what sol, how the isnt a lead delegates. Eh, i dont country, should i have the chart of thought of the United Nations in front of everybody over the simply, what does that mean to send the message that theres the bottom below, above, international and punitive to International Law. And that could not try to happen to accept it without the american phone and so forth. To is there, youll say tony too much stuff. Uh, its very, very adamant tennessee. Youll see a most of it is very, very adamant that theres a huge amount of hypocrisy. Theres absolutely no incentive, whatsoever for israel to ever recognize a palestinian state while it goes about accelerating its settlement building. And they dont divide west by end of cost. Both jeffrey and the staff are, i refer to that, send me the article moment after you add a, which of the deal out of the, the is already on buses for you and shredded the you and charlotta accusing the u. N. Of appeasing so cold, terrace laden policy opinion, a politicians will be a party who want to kill or is re lease and use. Its the policy youll see is the policy. Well, this resolution it any way a violation of the un charter as is right, allowed to use a of is not in there. Um, unfortunately, im bus of the needs building mo, when is, is the inflammation multiple, the caea to that, but im of the you and instead of substance a piece, actually the whole of the United Nation decided about the recognition of, of, of the states of note and or this kind of feel feel of, should i bring the child to . I dont thing to cover thing says favorite globally and not the country either presents. This is highly aggressive, right . I also dont take dogs of simplistic a view that if the only change these are the governments really more for or the officer consult these the other elements outside these that the officer consult based but it needs a change of government. It needs a change of direction and we felt a yes, i agree that is also in the United States and element time that was offered boca safe if the United States believes in a 2 state solution. Lets move. Busy to the full recognition of the state to as a conviction part of the negotiation, but for this face. And then for the boss is letting palestine on it quoted for the thing that they can negotiate to be fun, each other refunded another as states. And then we followed the other outstanding issues from joes. The name is the copy title of both the refugees and both of those and then settlements. And the rest is to state the bidding with each other weve, weve, weve 1st sponsibility and, and before we suspect and best, we havent seen them. Thats whats, might change. So if theyre all going to be future negotiations, they must be on a level Playing Field with respect and responsibility on both sides of the equation. Jeffrey turning to you again because i also want to look at one of the, of the apparent obstacles for palestine being a full member of the you. And it comes concerns about setting a precedent for all the observed countries that are always sparring to full membership or the you and im thinking of kosovo and its tensions which. So itd be a tie. One is tensions with china. Well, offering full membership to palestine complicates similar power level situations elsewhere in the world. Cost of all taiwan know this has been the will of the International Community and core to International Law for at least 57 years since the 1967 war. The notion that there need to be 2 states, of course, goes back a even 2 decades before that a, this is a long and specific history. There needs to be a political Self Determination for palestine and the state of palestine has the un member state. I. This is not in any way a dangerous precedent. This is quite the contrary. This is a protection of basic Political Rights that have been recognized for decades. Why the us position is, is not only deep, fully hypocritical. Its profoundly cynical because what it says is, well, let the parties decide that knowing that israel says no. So it has given a veto to the state of having a state of palestine to israel, to the occupier. This is an absurdity of, but this is the us position. We dont want to decide on the state of palestine because israel needs to negotiate that. Are you kidding . The occupying power . The government that says great or is real. We control everything. Thats the one that has the veto over palestinian Self Determination. Thats the actual us position. I dont know how much is cynical, how much is bought off and how much theyre fools, but they have been blocked in peace for decades. Steps to us. I did all 3 of us being very vehement and im picking unraveling the obstacles in the way when it comes to post on the full membership of the you. And i wonder if we can look ahead to what full membership would mean if and when it happens. Most stuff, or israel was granted full membership of view and 75 years ago. Today, paula stein is still, as we all know, very much waiting. What would it mean to be negotiating with israel, as weve mentioned before, on this level, Playing Field state to state. Well, uh, let me remind you that when is it and was it a good night to bite you on . Uh, did we have 2 conditions that desire and have to fulfill the events one sentence, which is the fact that the one in one design use and said that it will be up listing in state near israel. And definitely that happens answer kind of that is read with implement the 194 is a lucian, which would allow us to obviously use that with displaced by is, are in to come back home. Also, they did not implement that. So practically, the, it isnt on the mind. Its membership by not. So im sending these conditions. Thats one second. Yes, there is a fabulous conclusion of palestine on the next step. Think it does that for them. But because that would mean that every major is at least half a month and every major of an exception, it has no political and economic value. I mean, that would mean this is a state level to be sure that would be absolute sales. But i have to say that even when the palestinians on some other countries as opposed to the United States of plans for the city is a fast associates with negotiations with is relative to the United States. That if you start to plan the link and this has to say, accepted on, so you have to negotiate the think with is it a n y, right . Right. Took a this is a use in, in the, in the bottom with 99 members out of 100 time jewish maam. But less than the stuff im using. The other thing in the 2nd team, the whether were approaching the end of the program and i want to focus now. Busy what a palestinian state would like. So was a follow up to you, my staff. And of course what it would look like maybe into an entirely separate show but them. But given a huge disillusionment with the status quote of that particularly. And they all get part of westbank, the failure to hold elections and you know, in close to almost 2 decades now. How ready, how ready is progress time to state that the sign has to be completed for a long time . Look, weve been me states and theyve got weve been to many states and other countries. We are so equipped academically where we have to look. This is typically with resources with people who are so capable. Its adult q patient that is preventing us more than that is it . And is that on forming into our flesh structure . This government is fascist. By all means. And thats the obstacles. Its not the lack of what it is on the sides of the palestinians or the need for the form of the claim. The problem is the patient, the system of type, the fascism that is going on, that will not to be sold without sanctions, without boy, without effect of policy. That says to, is it and, and must, is enough. And for the single furnace demands. And is there any, is b, s has to come and they cannot come without the freedom of the understanding and people, or as you say, peace could all come without the freedom of the policy and people, it has been a, a fascinating discussion, a very, very interesting journey with all 3 of you, jeffrey sachs, some stuff about gucci. Youll see macro bag. Thank you very much for joining us on inside story. Id like you to for watching and you can see the program again, any time by visiting our website, how to 0, a dot com for further discussion. Go to a facebook page. As facebook dot com forward slash a inside story. You can also join the conversation on x ill handle is at a inside story for me, the falkland whole team here. The cheering dislikes, the more fossil fuels, we burn the hot or the planet and well get were forcing from the direction job. I says the federal government is committed to rebuilding it with the in this generation age workers, right side of rec, targets is an in depth coverage. How is any of this except it is not acceptable. Ill just say it was teens across the world. When you, closer to the heart of the story, was in the solomon islands, the deadly legacy of world war 2, remain on the lounge. I just placed it in a fluid. Now i didnt this see they are literally the sense of taking time on this one. 0, one east meets the solomon islands. Some tante escape a war that ended decades ago on the after controversial president ial campaign. And the contested victory proposed to be unto is said to lead indonesia, se, asias largest economy. A diverse nation with more than 1300 ethnic groups. Political, why were comfortable with the people. Were not going to be determined by for in none of the president s. Alexis, indonesia, provo, sabean, so talks to l. Just the room. The latest news was so intense that this is all that is left. People are digging through debris and twisted metal to find anyone left alive in debt for thoughts. The target population of 2300000 people do not have enough crisis escalating and detailed coverage as well as Prime Minister relies on Foreign Ministers to stay in power. They want the raft results to go ahead, define them, and then you know, who could be out of office the single venue is good to have you with us. This is the news, our life and bill coming up in the program. Israel orders more evacuations as its assault on rasa, intensifies more than a 150000 palestinians have been displaced hospitals and gaza, of being overwhelmed rallies and tel aviv live pictures. Right now. The families, it is really, is being held in gaza calls for more protest