Im in charleston, the biggest city in the state of south carolina, in the americas south. Today, its sunny and picturesque, but charlestons prosperity was built on the back of the slave trade. Nearly half of all of americas slaves arrived at its port. Behind me is a slave market where they were bought and sold. The struggle for freedom and justice has been long and bloody. One of the most iconic fighters was Martin Luther king, the civil rights activist. My guest is his daughter, bernice king. Thank you. You are ceo of the king centre in atlanta, georgia. Like your late father, Martin Luther king, you are a church minister, you also preach his message of coexistence. When you look around the world today, including the United States, do you see coexistence between different peoples . You certainly see it in in various places, when i travel around the nation and the world, but i think holistically we have a lot of work to do in terms of understanding our different cultures, appreciating them, respecting them, and finding a common way to move forward in society. Because, you know, we have a society of laws and opportunities. And i think thats where much of the friction lies. So, just looking at the United States, algernon austin, whos an African American, he wrote a book called america is not post racial. He says the Civil Rights Movement of the 50s and 60s, that it failed more than it succeeded. He thinks that you didnt make progress on segregation. He says today, in my city, washington, dc, which is more than a third white, there is not a white child in any of the schools in my neighbourhood. Well, i wouldnt say that it failed. I think it was a progression. Um, and obviously, theres still discrimination that exists, and sometimes its difficult to prove in todays society. But there are laws in place, thank god, that were not in place when my father lived. I wouldnt say that it failed, i would say that the leader of that movement who was able to define it very clearly, we lost his voice. So, no one has been no one has emerged since that time to really articulate the movement the way that he did. Well, some would argue the black lives Matter Campaign is trying to claim a kind of voice in the community. Mhmm. And looking at their stand, it would seem to suggest that they think actually theres a great deal more that has to be achieved, for example, if you look at the take a knee protests, that suggests that there is still very overt discrimination going on. Well, it is overt. But if you look at it like a glass is half empty, or half full. Yes, there is racism that is overt, but there is also brotherhood and sisterhood in some communities and in some relationships. Either way, i look at it through the lens of my mothers quote. She said struggle is a never ending process freedom is never really won, you earn it in every generation. We lost ground from my fathers assassination up until this time period because we were not vigilant. But just staying with the take a knee protest. That has given visibility to the discrimination, and you support it . Do you support the movement . You know, what i support is i support peoples right to protest and stand by their conscience. What i would like to be able to do is to help further that kind of movement. My father had a philosophy and a methodology of nonviolence. Principles and steps. I think what most people dont understand is that there is a reason and a rationale for protest in my fathers philosophy. Im not saying that the way people protest today is wrong. We called it direct action, it was designed to bring about attention to get back to bargaining at the negotiation table where you set out to work things out. David leonard, columnist in the new york times, said in october, i believe donald trump is not only wrong but deliberately picking a fight with African Americans to appeal to his base. Because obviously he has taken objection. Nevertheless, he says i disagree with the kneeling protest because it alienates people who could be persuaded to the cause. Does he have a point . Again, its very difficult, because in an area like this, you have to explain dr kings philosophy, because thats what i live by. Its not a its not a matter of whether hes wrong and theyre right, and hes right or theyre wrong and hes wrong, it is about understanding the context in the spirit of dr king. I think both are right. Because negotiation and direct action are part of the process, but you have to know when direct action comes into play. And so i would say that i support peoples right to stand by their conscience and what they believe is right. Because we have a. Daddy used to say we have a right to protest for right. Do you think his methods and approach is relevant in the 21st century . Because there has always been a debate. People can debate until the cows come home. Truth always prevails. Because at the end of the day, its very relevant. Because, i can tell you, justin hansford, whos an African American lawyer, said in october this year i think that in this era, the idea that you gain the moral highground by wearing a suit and tie and being nonviolent, by Singing Church songs, that strategy is not effective in the 21st century. And i would say he is very ignorant of my fathers philosophy and methodology, with all due respect. He does not understand it, he has not studied it. It is not about a suit and tie. It is not about singing songs. It is direct confrontation in a non violent spirit and in a manner against injustice and wrongdoing. Do you think it might be a generational thing . Because Barbara Reynolds said in 2015, she was an activist in the 1960s, she says black lives matter seems intent on rejecting our proven methods. The 1960s movement had an innate respectability and changed laws by delivering a message of love and unity. Unfortunately, church and spirituality are not a high priority for black lives matter. Do you agree with her . I agree that spirituality always has to be the foundation of a movement. And you think younger generations do not understand this message of spirituality . I think theyre searching for it, not that theyre not understanding it. I think theyre searching for it. And i think at some point theyll land on it. So, just in a nutshell, what would you say his underlying philosophy is that underpins what you think should be done in terms of the friction . To reconciliation. You have to have a commitment, because that determines everything, how you approach things. You have to have a commitment to win win. You cant have a commitment to winning over people, but Winning People over. But, i mean, clearly, things are not going in the right direction. I would disagree. This is what you said quite recently, we are heading to race riots if we are not careful. We just cant keep this divisiveness going. But you said. If is a keyword, because it does not translate into it will. We have the opportunity to turn things around. If people do not pause and really study dr king, we could end there. I will say it until the cows come home. He was a prophet, he was a prophet notjust to this nation, but the world. He told us what we needed to do and he predicted whats going on. Going on, for example. Tension is going to grow, and turmoil in the streets will persist. He said that. Youre referring to what we saw in charlottesville, in august, for example, with a White Nationalist rally. Those instances, what has happened, what is happening, with Law Enforcement in the streets, all of that. Because, you know, the reverend eric manning from the Mother Emanuel Church here in charleston just a few miles away where your father once preached, and where tragically, in 2015, injuly, a white supremacist killed nine worshippers, including the pastor, he says that he believes Race Relations in the United States are getting worse. In some was, it is. But in other ways, there are people, like, for instance, im working with a group of ministers in atlanta, black and white, trying to overcome the divide with pastors trying to understand each others world, each others perspective. Its called better together. We have a beloved Community Talk at the king centre bringing divergent voices together trying to get people together. My father said people hate each other because they fear each other, they fear because they dont know each other, they dont know each other because they dont communicate with each other, they dont communicate with each other because theyre not connected to each other. We have to spend time getting together and knowing each other. Part of whats going on in america is ignorance. And its fed, unfortunately, through the medium that you work fo, the media. And were impressionable as people. And so when we hear stuff, whether it be traditional media or even social media, we react. So we have to learn how to live together, as daddy said, as brothers and sisters, or well perish as fools. One big flashpoint at the moment between, sort of, White Nationalists and black people, is over the symbols of the era when slavery existed. Where do you stand on that . For example, statues of robert e lee, the confederate leader during the slave era, for example, do you think such statues should remain in place . Look, im a mediator. Thats who i am by nature. I believe we are in a season where we have to bring voices together and find a win win solution. I have personal beliefs. I believe those things belong in monuments. But i think the pathway forward is to lessen the tension with those who believe in those memorials, rightfully or wrongfull so, and to to help them better understand why there is a reaction to those monuments. Wrongfully. Theres two different types of monuments, obviously, there were those built to honour those in the confederacy, and then those built during the time of segregation and jim crowism as kind of forms of intimidation. And should they remain, these monuments . Which ones . The latter ones . Should all of these monuments. You have to separate them, because some may need to remain as part of the confederacy. The ones that were designed to intentionally send a message of oppression to African Americans at the time. I believe they belong in a museum going forward. But in order to get them there, we have to talk it through and get people together non violently. When you just force people, it leaves seeds of violence in its wake. You have said that racism must be dealt its final blow. Do you think we any closer to that . I think we are in a good time. I think we are purging in america. I think things that have been hidden under the surface are coming to the surface. For too long we have let things be brushed under the rug. And now things are coming to a head. You have more voices and more multi cultural voices coming together like never before. That the issue of White Supremacy and White Privilege has ever been addressed orfaced, like never before. You have white people, i know this, personally, who are talking about White Privilege, and that its a problem. And that has never happened before. You have people acknowledging White Supremacy as something that has to be done away with. Thank god for the consciousness they have raised. When did that begin . Its been over the last three orfour years. I think it emerged from black lives matter, it emerged from that young generation who rose up and brought to oui consciousness. Theres a group of individuals, america, that you still have refused to deal with, in terms of value. When barack obama gave his farewell address as president , he admitted america is still divided on race. He said race remains a potent and often divisive force in our society. Do you think he could have done more . I think everybody could have done more. I would never say that hes the only one that could have done more. All of us could have done more. We have not been persistent in dealing with the issue. We kind of touch it, and we, you know, move on to the next thing. Were going to this is the issue of our day, that were going to have to address. And if not, you know, its going to get worse. Riots, and more division . Possibly, yes. Yes. When you say president obama could have done more, do you want to be more specific . What, specifically, more could he have done . Well, i mean, he could have challenged leaders in different sectors to create atmospheres and environments to begin, you know, formulating an approach to addressing it, in their different circles of influence. You know, i think everybody could have done that, you know. But i think, as the leader of the nation, he could have done more of that. And what about the current president . Well, he had a moment hes had moments after moments to do it. And, for whatever reason, were afraid as a nation to deal with racism as a world, to deal with racism. Its notjust america. Is donald trump afraid to deal with racism, i think most leaders are afraid to deal, including President Trump. I think most are just afraid to deal with it. Imean, its. First of all, its not going to be something that we will conquer overnight. Its a lifelong pursuit. As a child, the youngest child of Martin Luther king, you were five when he was assassinated. You were born, though, at a high point in his life, really, when he received the nobel prize peace prize, when he made his famous i have a dream speech, in 1963. You carry the king name. Obviously, you try to continue his work. Do you see that legacy as something very positive, or do you feel that it is a burden in some ways . No, ifeel inspired by it. I feel a sense of responsibility. At one point, it was a burden. But now, its so much a part of me a welcome part of me. You know, the only burden i feel is the burden that he felt, as humanity to understand our value to each other . Thats the burden i carry on a daily basis. You said at one time you felt that it was a bit of a burden, but now you see it as something that is positive and enriching. Just explain a bit more was it something you have had to grapple with . Well, yeah, yeah. The first part of it, because i was called to ministry at a young age. I was called at 17, i didnt really answer until i was just about a5. And then, in the early stages of accepting my calling, and then beginning to preach, i wanted to find bernice, i wanted to find my voice. I wanted to see where i was congruent, and notjust be a duplicate of my father and or mother. And so i spent many years not even doing a lot of reading of his books, or listening to his sermons, until i knew for sure, before then, it was like, i dont want to deal with this, because people are going to always be comparing me to them. And i had to get comfortable with being me, and understanding what my mother told me as a child, me and my siblings. You dont have to be me this is what she said. You do not have to be me, you do not have to be your father. Just be your best self. How have your siblings dealt with it . I mean, i know your older sister, the oldest child, yolanda, died in 2007, at a young age. She was only 51. You have two brothers, Martin Luther king iii and dexter. You seem to be one who is continuing. No, i think my brother martin is doing it too. Hes just not a preacher, but hes doing it too. He does a lot of travelling, carrying some of the messages that i carry all over the place. And so i wouldnt say that its not carrying, but were carrying it out in different ways. He doesnt do public speaking, he doesnt feel comfortable in that space. And so i think each one of us are doing it, in different ways. You know, what has helped all of us, because weve talked about it before is my motherjust not if our mother had put pressure on us, it would have been really hard. But she took that pressure off, and that has helped us to process through the external pressure that we have, in different seasons of our life. You know, bereavement has been a really defining feature of your life, hasnt it . You lost your sister yolanda. Obviously your father, your grandmother was shot dead. Your uncle was found mysteriously dead, in a swimming pool. Father assassinated, yes. Your mother died of cancer in 2006. I mean, how has that affected you . Its affected me a lot. A lot of loss and separation. And, you know, i deal with issues of abandonment all the time. Ive processed through anger, from time to time. I still deal with anger. I have to discipline myself so the anger doesnt overtake you. Depressed moments, as well . Yeah, i have depressed moments. Because, you know, i knew my mother, i was close to my mother. My fathers a different story. And so, you know, i have days when im very sad. But what i take with me is the lessons that each one of them taught me, in different ways. My father more vicariously, but my mother directly, my sister, et cetera, and that what keeps me going with my faith, my strong faith. I know, obviously, you were only five when your father died. But if he were here, and were to look around him at Race Relations today in the United States, what do you think his opinion would be . I dont think hed have an opinion, per se. I think he would repeat the things one of the things i said to you earlier, that, you know, we have to deal with the issue of justice, or else were going to continue to see the growing tension and the turmoil in the streets. None of this stuff would surprise my father at all. Would he think the struggle had been in vain, for example, when he sees. The radical revolution of values. You know, that we begin to become more of a person Centred Society than a thing Centred Society. That we deal with the triple evils of what he called poverty, racism, and militarism. And so i think he would be disappointed that, in the 50 years that hes been gone, that people did not take up that mantle persistently, as a whole. And when i say people, i dont mean individuals. I mean people of conscience did not work collectively together, persistently. The movement was a collection of people of conscience, a coalition of conscience, that moved together under his leadership, persistently. That is whats been absent today. You have People Living in pockets, but they are not doing it in a collaborative, consistent way. Couldnt that leader be you . I dont know about that, i dont know about that. I have no idea. Only god knows that, and, you know. Well, you wanted to be when you were a teenager, that was your ambition. You know, my father was a reluctant leader. Im a reluctant leader. And he didnt choose to lead the movement, you know. He was catapulted. He was elected by a group of people, and destiny had him, and he accepted, and thats how it occurred. So, you know, i dont pursue leadership. What i try to do is to lend my voice to different situations, and i will continue to do that. Bernice king, thank you very much indeed for coming on hardtalk. Thank you, i appreciate it. Hello again, good morning. This is the first widespread cold night of the season. Its been a very mild month so far. Weve still got a few showers, actually, running down the north sea but otherwise, with the High Pressure building in, its led to clear skies, light winds, and temperatures have been falling away sharply particularly in the countryside, where therell be at least a grass frost, and perhaps in some areas an air frost, as well. Either way, its going to be a cold start in the morning. Therell be a lot of sunshine around, mind you. Those showers around the wash, norfolk, suffolk, fading through the morning, and then well start to see some changes in the north west. Were trying to get back into that atlantic air, and that means some weak weather fronts bringing in some more cloud into Northern Ireland and scotland, perhaps a little more rain to the north. But generally, most places will be dry into the afternoon. Well probably see more cloud coming into northern england, wales and the midlands through the afternoon. Its quite high cloud, but it does mean it is quite chilly in the day across these areas. Temperatures about 8 9 degrees or so. Where we hang onto some sunshine across southern england, well, 11 or 12 degrees. But it is here, with the clear skies, that there is a risk of frost weve got this strengthening west to south westerly wind, and that means a lot of cloud. Well see some rain developing in scotland. Some quite heavy rain over the hills in the west of scotland. But most of england and wales itll be a fine day. Still some sunshine in the south east, and temperatures a little bit higher, at 13 or 1a degrees. High pressure that weve got building in the uk right now is going to be across Central Europe by tuesday and wednesday, these weather fronts coming around the top of that, bringing some more rain for the first day of november. And that rain again for scotland, especially in the west of scotland, maybe extending into Northern Ireland later. Again, for england and wales, a dry day, pleasantly warm, and the winds will be light, too. The weather front weakened as it moves its way southwards. Not much rain on thursday. But that bump of High Pressure means it will be a touch cooler across northern parts of the uk, maybe a touch of grass frost in some areas. Still the threat of some rain lingering across the channel and into southern england. Coldest weather over the week ahead probably right now. It will turn milder through tuesday and wednesday, with increasing cloud. And, as weve seen, not much rain away from the north west. This is the briefing. Im sally bundock. 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