As well as a podcast. Chris, adam, laura and katya gathered on thursday night to discuss another busy week. So laura, given that nothing is happening in politics whatsoever. Yeah, its been a quiet week. And audiobooks are all the rage. 0h youve probably not heard about this, but theres this book thats come out this week. Honestly, he should hire a better pr team, shouldnt he, the former Prime Minister . No, i hadnt heard about that. Downloading mills and boon over here. Weve got half an hour, so we can get through 730 pages. Go on then. It is three years since the referendum on britains membership of the european union. The referendum on britains more than, now. The referendum on britains yeah, thats true. The referendum on britains even the first sentence isnt right. The referendum on britains not a day has passed that i havent my decision to hold that vote, not a day has passed that i havent thought about my decision to hold that vote, and the consequences of doing so. Me too. Yeah, you and me both, dave. Anyway, given that you may have just heard one or two things about this book i mean, blimey, hes even been on this morning, hasnt he . Oh, no on the sofa. I think maybe we can manage a few of the things we will talk about. Lets this week make brexitcast the only Political Programme in the universe that is not going to talk about it. Or programme, full stop. Lets do it. Welcome to brexitcast. Brexitcast, from the bbc. No ones got a bleep clue what brexit is. Brexit is, uh. I havent quite understood the full extent of this. We are particularly reliant on the dover calais crossing. I met borisjohnson once. The doubters, the doomsters, the gloomsters, they are going to get it wrong again. Remainers and leavers thats going to end well. Brussels, which i can only describe as a dogs brexit. So its only us two here this week. Chris at westminster. Laura at westminster. Katya on her lonesome in brussels. Aww. Yeah, im i could sing it for you, but i wont talk to you about it at the beginning. Adam, on a greek island. What . Not doing a serious piece. Can you bring me back some spa na kopita, please . If i dont eat it on the plane. I would love to say im doing a piece of investigative journalism. But dino, known to our viewers and listeners, the person who sits in that little booth behind laura, pushing the buttons, is getting married, and its his stag do tonight. Its just like mamma mia. This might be the last time we ever see you or hear you, adam. So before we wave goodbye, paint us a brief picture. How many have you had to drink . Hardly any, because ive been preparing myself for this brief appearance on brexitcast. With a little bit of distance from brussels and london, observing the brexit process, i am so confused. Will there be a deal, wont there . Are there papers being tabled by the uk, arent there . Was Boris Johnson humiliated in luxembourg or not . Has Jean Claude Juncker shown a bit of willingness to get a deal or not . I am so confused, because it seems like all of those things might be true and not true at the same time. Thats because, adam, we live in the new universe of alternative truths. You could argue all of the above. Last night it looked like just before i got on the plane at 3 00am this morning, on a very early flight, it looked like the french president and the finnish Prime Minister had set a new deadline, saying if theres nothing by the end of september, its all over. And, literally four hours later, there were some written proposals on the table. So that massive drama had just sort of died out after about four hours. Thats what i mean. So where do we start . We have to talk about, as you say, your little adventure, both of your adventures, to luxembourg, adam, and all things mr bettel. And then where on earth are we with all the talks and stuff being put forward, and all of that . Mrjuncker meeting Boris Johnson at the beginning of the week, and has been talking on the telly today, and then all the business down the road in the courts. And can we turn to page a7, tab 73 . Chris, calm down. Not yet, not yet. A little bit later. I was thinking of you, adam, because i was wondering if you have been watching the Supreme Court this week. Maybe you have downloaded some of it to watch. Actually, if you run out of things to talk about at dinos stag do, you can talk about the Supreme Court. But they had binders much bigger than your binders. But in fancy language, they re called bundles, so its not even that clear. So first off, earlier in the week, me and adam were both in luxembourg. There was podiumgate, which some of you e mailed me very directly and very correctly to say it should have been lecterngate, because it was technically a lectern and not a podium. Anyway, so it was a silly journalistic nickname. But, as we chatted about at the beginning of the week, and if you didnt listen to the podcast, there was a real moment. Xavier bettel and borisjohnson had had talks, protesters screaming at the gates. Borisjohnson chose not to take part in the press conference, and Xavier Bettel took part anyway, even gesturing to the empty lectern, not podium, alongside him. And i think its fair to say this hacked a lot of people off. But you caught up with him this week, didnt you . Yes, so you left luxembourg and i came to luxembourg to speak exclusively to mr bettel, and say to him, what were you thinking when you did that when you decided to hold a press conference gesturing at an empty lectern, where borisjohnson should have been standing and where the union flag was . And it wasnt just a press conference where he sort of blandly answered questions about the meeting that they had had, which he told me was actually very friendly. He went on a rant about frustrations with the brexit process. Now, i mean, in content, what he said was nothing that he hasnt said before concern about the safety of eu citizens, frustration amongst eu leaders that they feel theyre always painted as the villain in the brexit process, whereas they never wanted brexit in the first place. And they say they have tried to reach a compromise deal, and understand all of the Prime Ministers they have had to deal with in the uk since the story began, and so on, and so on. But, as you say, it was that choice to stand there where the two Prime Ministers should have been standing. Now, he said he never intended to humiliate, and he never intended to put a trap for borisjohnson. Can i raise a sceptical journalistic eyebrow at that . The extraordinary thing about that was it was off the scale undiplomatic. I cannot imagine a british Prime Minister in any context, of either party or any party, whoever was turning up here, given that you have invited them, then doing that. Lets see how he explained it, because i know you asked him that. Lets hear how he explained it. We have this situation where i thought he should go, and we should speak to the people and tell them to have respect to Prime Ministerjohnson, and this was really my goal. When i see that people say that i wanted to blame, i wanted to humiliate, i have to say this is really not what we wanted. Well, it may not be what he wanted, but the thing is, ijust said to him, he has been an eu leader around the table for six years. This is a very experienced politician, and i said to him, you must have known how that would come across. And, to be fair, its notjust eyebrows that shot through the roof in parts of the united kingdom, although there are many people who said well done, mr bettel for saying how we feel. And frankly, the emotions that he expressed, the frustration he felt, is nothing new in the eu. I hear it all the time in off the record briefings with eu diplomats and politicians. But it was that decision to go out there. And that has been criticised, behind closed doors, not in front of lecterns, in eu circles as well. So, even though he expressed a commonly held frustration, the way he did it did not go down well in many areas of the eu. Ive got to ask you about my favourite bit of telly nerdy telly, but it was my favourite bit of telly this week. Mr bettel turning estate agent. Perhaps you need a pad in luxembourg. I am going to do a thing that Estate Agents dont necessarily do, and show you how small it is, not how extensive it is. Im not sure how long we will have you with us before youre off to the ouzo, but the explanation they gave us on monday, it already feels like 100 years ago they didnt have a big enough room for the journalists. And i have been in those rooms a few times. Ive seen the giant artworks mr bettel has. And its smaller than my living room, the tiny flat, which youre welcome to all come around, along with journalists from the international press. If it was any other country, other than tiny luxembourg, you would think maybe this is planned. But it wouldnt happen with Angela Merkel, because guess what shes got a massive room for massive press conferences with hundreds of journalists. I do think this is one of those ones where can i say this word . Cock up, not conspiracy. I am with you misjudged, not undiplomatic. Undiplomatic but not intentional humiliation. And it has not had much impact on the process. Its good sport. I found myself looking at, during the night, the size of luxembourg the size of dorset, and about the population of glasgow. Its the population of leeds, isnt it . I am sure well be corrected. This is the key thing, isnt it . Ive been off work for a couple of days, and like adam, you have a little bit of detachment. And ifind myself thinking, well, hang on a minute and i simplify to make the point. One side is saying were suggesting all sorts of stuff, and the other side says we havent seen anything. And you think, hang on a minute. How can they both be right . Whats going on . This is how the uk sees it, and ive been talking to people in government this week, saying theres all this diplomatic floundering and frippery going on. What is happening behind closed doors . So the uk has been discussing for several weeks all sorts of ideas with various Member States and people in the Eu Commission whats been described to me as a menu of options that is full of starters, appetisers, main courses, puddings, that they think the eu could pick from to say this is the broad basis of something which is worth talking about. And theyve been trying by releasing some of these non papers. We will ask you for an explanation in a second of the technical definition of a non paper, just to try and get the process going. Theres quite a lot of exasperation is exasperation fair . Some elements of the government machine in the uk are exasperated that they have been trying to have these conversations. I have seen david frost, the eu negotiator, his red binder on the plane with my own eyes. They have been talking about things, and they feel that what needs to happen, what they hope to be on the way, is a kind of big political show of from leo varadkar orfrom Angela Merkel a big political shelf. Political show of from leo varadkar orfrom Angela Merkel orfrom emmanuel macron, to say, all right, were actually going to talk properly now. And its a Political Choice to try, and i think theres been frustration on the uk side. But they havent been blameless, but there is a frustration that up until now they have sort of been banging their head against a brick wall. The sense is some of the bricks have become a bit loose. And what has been really surprising on brexitcast over the last couple of years is how often, when we have been having these conversations, the interpretation when it is seen and read in london of the same thing can be interpreted very differently where you are. Laura was talking about the david frost red binders that you can see on the plane, and yet sometimes the language coming out of brussels has sounded like what red binders . There arent any. So i think theres the show and the theatre, and then theres stuff happening behind the scenes. And frankly, its notjust on the eu side saying we have seen nothing at all. Its a bit like a toddler who is hiding behind its own hands and saying you cant see me. You know, theres been. With chocolate all over their face. So theres been an exchange of views. So its not fair, really, when the eu says we have seen nothing. There has been some false briefing on their side suggesting that borisjohnson had no idea how to solve the checks problem in ireland. All sorts of messy stuff on this side as theres been false briefing on the uks side, from the eu perspective, as well. Ithink, you know, if there is so much noise going on which is contradicted by either side, does this mean we will never get a deal . And i would argue, not necessarily, because what do you do before youre about to compromise . You make a lot of noise. You stand strong, you flex your muscles, because if youre going to get a deal between the eu and the uk under borisjohnson, there is going to have to be compromise on either side, probably both sides. So they have to flex their muscles before they do it. And a really senior figure in the government this week said, as ever, its about finding a win for everyone. So everyone who has been up on their high horse is going to have to find a way of climbing down from the saddle. But i still think its less likely that there is a deal than likely. But there is a feeling now that there is maybe going to be a push to try. Adam, i know you have to go to the taverna and you have to take the mick out of dino. Of course i dont approve of any kind of stag do pranks. You are the only person in the world who can give us a really clear definition of a non paper. It does sound even worse than the dog ate my homework as a kind of what . Come off it. What is it, technically . I managed to feel very smug today because everyone was saying non paper what is this word we have to grapple with . Its old school in brussels. Non paper is when youre in a negotiation or discussion and you want to put some ideas on the table but you dont want to commit to it as your negotiating position. You can publish a non paper. So its a bit like a green paper, actually, in westminster, just to make the jargon even worse. And i have to say, though, the non papers that the uk put forward sound like theyre non new compared to what they have already been saying verbally. Then we get onto a note verbale. Thats another thing. In a french accent un note verbal i like the idea of that. Adam, just promise me at the stag do youll talk about other things as well. Laughter. Your non paper banter at iam could be quite something. Amazing. The great news is though, there is a debriefing for diplomats from the 27 working on brexit on friday in brussels, so not very long to go and of course the commission will brief out the contents of those non papers and whether theyre non impressed or impressed. Yes. So we dont have long to wait to find out whats in them. Until you get your sticky paws on those non paper pieces of paper and also before we even. Unless im handcuffed to a lamp post thats very true. Unless, and we should say, on all of this. Nothing but a non paper. Laughter. We have to say kalinikta to you now, adam, to go on your merry way. 0h, whats that mean . It means good night. Or we could say kalispera which is good evening. Kalispera. Or you could say poly byra which would be lots of beers. You could choose any of the above, whatever you choose. Im going to say poly byra. Bye, adam. Give our love. So just before we move. Enjoy your discussion about the Supreme Court, bye. No one has ever said that to me before, ever in my life. This is brexit, its full of firsts. Can i slip one thought in there, just a tiny one. Quickly, quickly. Which is when you use the word exasperation on the uk side of the eu stance, let me assure you that it is shared on this side as regards to the uk. Oh, yeah. But we will be discussing this for many weeks to come. Ive got to ask you both aboutJean Claude Juncker of the european commission, because obviously he was a big noise earlier in the week when borisjohnson did his trip to luxembourg, and hes back on the telly tonight. So, Jean Claude Juncker has said to one of our colleagues in the westminster lobby sophy ridge of sky news, tonight, that he thinks there will be a deal and that he is not that fussed about keeping the backstop as it is as long as it can be replaced with a workable alternative. I paraphrase. But i think although other senior figures in the eu have said this kind of thing before, at this moment, with this timing, with what we were talking about, about the deepfreeze starting to thaw a bit, its interesting and its certainly warmer language than after his first meeting with borisjohnson on monday. Theyve had another phone call since then and i think, may well be over interpreted, as ever, but it does seems to be a bit of that mood music getting a bit cheerier, and leo varadkar, the taoiseach, also said today on the record, and he of course, as we always talk about on the news, hes the linchpin and he said the rhetorics been tempered, the mood music is really good, theres still a big gap there but Everyone Wants to get this done. Katya, i guess the question is, the timing is crucial, but how different is this from Jean Claude Juncker from things hes said before . Frankly, not really. I think that the difference is, on the eu side, they see Boris Johnson cornered in all sorts of of directions and that makes them think that this is not a man who feels he can get away with pursuing a no deal brexit any more. He has to actively, really truly pursue a deal because that is the best option for him right now. Thats how its seen here. And that gives room for hope on the eu side. The idea of the eu being open to replacing the backstop and not being emotionally attached. I think he said erotically attached tonight, but anyway. Oooooh you could, yeah, erotically attached to the backstop . We can discuss that later, but it actually is inside the Withdrawal Agreement. Its nothing new, inside the Withdrawal Agreement it says that the backstop is the third option. In the absence of a trade deal between the two sides that would make alternative arrangements or a backstop necessary, these are the kind of conditions that youve got there. It is in the Withdrawal Agreement that you can replace the backstop with something else. Yes, i know, but this is. This is actually not new and i think this is the eu gameplaying by saying, look, were open, but theyve said this all along. As soon as Boris Johnson said he wants to bin the backstop, they said, bring it on. You bin the backstop but you have to come to us with a workable legally operable alternative. Im ranting now, i know. But thats why these non papers dont do it for the eu. Wow. Because they want all the technical detail. Both sides playing games. So i dont see this as an advance, myself. But the mood music is. You know, everyones looking for a way forward. Leo varadkar talking to the dup. Politically, he cannot get away with weakening the backstop in any way but what he can say is hes working together with the dup because hes always said he totally understands the unionists in Northern Ireland and he wants to work with them and so on and so forth. So, i think theres movement. So what might change this in a really big way is the verdict of the Supreme Court when it comes. If you havent been following the case, if youve had Better Things to do than watch the Supreme Court bundles, whats at root here is the Scottish Court decided that borisjohnson had acted against the law and had misled the queen by suspending parliament in order to have a queens speech to outline his Domestic Programme and everybody suspected it was because he wanted to close down debate on brexit, but a court in london basically said, oh, its none of our business. So the Supreme Court has had this week argument after argument after argument on both sides and they have to come up with a verdict, probably early next week. Now, it could not be more contentious. And yet you have the courts intervening and being very conscious that what they are doing is so political potentially. Thats right, massive high drama. Lets just have a listen to what was the most dramatic clip of the week which was by one of the advocates, the scottish advocate, would be a qc in england, but an advocate in scotland, aidan oneill, who was the advocate who won the case in the session in edinburgh, making this very highly charged accusation about how borisjohnson had behaved in his finalflourish to the justices. Weve got here the mother of parliaments being shutdown by the father of lies. Rather than allowing lies to triumph, listen to the angels of your better nature. Imagine. Oof, that was quite a bit of rhetoric. I mean, its kind of like summing up to a jury. Its like, the jury here are 11 of the most seniorjudges in the land but in terms of what actually might happens, this is one massive. Were going to go away over the weekend and were going to find out, they say at the beginning of next week . Yes. But the interesting thing, because lets be honest, i think for a lot of us who are normally in the business of covering politics. Thats bad enough. Laughs. Watching the live footage from the court. And its still a novelty, isnt it, in the uk, seeing cameras in courts . I think the Supreme Courts been around for about ten years now, but seeing cameras in a courtroom is still quite something. Trying to unpick it and understand it, but the essence of it. Its the new box set. Yeah, exactly. Bbc pa rliaments been usurped by Supreme Court. Yeah, Supreme Court tv no is the range of things that the court could come back and say and then the consequence of that in terms of whether parliament finds itself reconvened and also crucially where it leaves, politically, the Prime Minister. Genuinely, by coincidence. 0r whether you could Prorogue Parliament a second time . I mean, thats already being discussed, isnt it . Genuinely, just by coincidence, i have a little ready reckoner. 0h, do you . In my notes based on a conversations ive been having this week about the Different Things that might happen. So, option a, the court may conclude it is non judiciable. That is this weeks equivalent of stymying. Exactly, they might conclude, none of our business, thanks very much. Thats that then, we are where we are and thats that. But it seems from the line of questioning it is unlikely they will go there. Very stupid to speculate about Supreme Court justices but everyones doing it so why shouldnt we . From the line of questioning, it seems unlikely they would go there because are they setting a precedent then that some Prime Minister in future might say, im going to shut down parliament for ten years and the court said on the record and created legal precedent, oh, nothing to do with us so option number two then comes in where they might say, actually, it is a legal concern. But then theres two avenues. Right. So in theory its a legal concern but we arent convinced that this government and this Prime Minister has actually done anything terribly wrong. They dont believe something has been proven. Conclusion would be the same as the other option which is things stay as they are. Correct. So it wouldnt have any practical effect. Then you get into the realms of if they say, well yes, it is our business and this government did do something very government did do something very wrong and we are ordering them to recall parliament which then gets really complicated because if you are going to have the queens speech earlier, theres not enough time to get the golden carriage ordered for the queen to come down whitehall and all the security arrangements and everything to be put in place. And then the final properly politically Nuclear Option is that the court says, yes, it is our business and the Prime Ministers a liar. And then i think wed be into howls for resignation, wed be into a sudden. But that would be a massive political intervention from a kind of institution of the state that is usually very reluctant to be seen to be getting into politics. Correct and i think that would be a constitutional crisis, to be honest. Today, of course, there was all the talk about a possibly politicised queen as well. I know we dont have time to go into cameron and the queen, but you know, these are big questions. I know, i was anticipating that if we ran out of things to say, ive got the book here. Laughing. Picked it up at the crack of dawn this morning. Had vague hopes that id finish the whole thing. cause we always run out of things to say, dont we . Were not at all talkative. 300 and something pages long. Going to start reading on page one. Are you . Well, we could do that for the rest of the night. So what are the big things we need to think about before next week . Quickly, what are the big events happening . Lots more talks being stepped up here. So, all im going to say is borisjohnsons going to new york for the Un General Assembly and there he will see varadkar, merkel and macron. So next week, big bananas. And the labour conference, well be at the labour conference and well definitely talk a lot about the eu policies, been loads of that this week but we dont have time to go into it now. And the lib dems, blimey what are you doing . Just just picking out a random sentence. Tightrope to walk you could put that on any page of a political biography, couldnt you . Laughter. Bye bye talk to you next week adios. Hello, good afternoon. Temperatures have reached 27 celsius on anglesey and today could be the last day that we see these kinds of temperatures. Until next spring or summer. Plenty of blue sky around as well. This photo was sent in by one of our weather watchers are there. Change is on the way. You can see on the pressure chart that we have an area of low pressure out to the best. High pressurejust of low pressure out to the best. High pressure just hanging of low pressure out to the best. High pressurejust hanging on through today. We have the south, south east of the bay is helping to raise those temperatures. The outlook for this afternoon, plenty of sunshine around. A few sharp showers for south west england, southern parts of wales, Northern Ireland as well. They could be heavy, possibly thundery. Elsewhere there is a good deal of sunshine. The a fairly busy, south easterly wind and the temperatures getting into the high 20s. Across the board, it is looking quite warm. A touch of colour now those north sea costs. We will see the show is gradually pushing north and east overnight and some of those remaining heavy with a rumble of thunder. There will be a more organised and a vein that can be quite heavy and persistent toe. A mandate for most in the north and east dry with some clear spells. Temperatures dipping down a little further. As we move into tomorrow, a fairly unsettled picture. There will be for the again, some of those heavy, possibly thundery, turning north and east. Abandonware persistent rain pushing north and east and an odd rumble of thunder. The risk of some sharp showers and temperatures reaching 23 celsius. Ahead of that front. As we move into the start of next week, we see that initial cold front clearing towards the north east. A brief drier interlude and then the next weather front will work on. Through monday, some showers across the north, cloudy skies for scotland in some brightness for parts of Northern Ireland, england and wales, but as you can see, in the south west, that rain is pushing on and the winds will pick up with that as well. Here are how the temperatures are looking on monday. Getting into the high teens for most. Perhaps just seen 20 celsius in a few spots. Through next week, it is looking fairly u nsettled. Week, it is looking fairly unsettled. There will be some showers or spells of rain, breezy at times and the temperatures are sitting in the mid to high teens. Goodbye. This is bbc news im lukwesa burak. The headlines at 3 Jeremy Corbyn has quashed an attempt to oust tom watson as the deputy leader of the labour party, a row which has overshadowed the start of the partys conference in brighton. The nec agreed this morning that we are going to consult on the future of diversifying the deputy leader position to reflect the adversity of society. Does tom watson have your full confidence . Tom watson is the deputy leader of the party and i enjoy working with him. The Party Conference has opened among policy matters this afternoon, labour is set to announce proposals to give women experiencing the menopause more Flexible Working hours. The travel firm thomas cook has approached the government for emergency funding, as it tries to avoid