Definitely riots. There were fires set out to be underground, banks we re set out to be underground, banks were attacked, individuals were attacked with petrol bombs. This is attacked with petrol bombs. This is a hong kong that is really on the edge of something very, very serious. But if you look back at how we got here, at each that there has been a reaction to severe measures by the authorities and it really is at this point something really unpleasant is going to happen, to dial down on bedside and tried to rebuild trust. There has been a com plete rebuild trust. There has been a complete breakdown of trust in hong kong with the Hong Kong Government and the hong kong police. And this was a place where essentially people trusted their institutions. It has been the basis of what was a very peaceful and prosperous place. At every point she has shown herself, she has got cloth ears. She does too little too late. She has finally initiated a kind of dialogue process thatis initiated a kind of dialogue process that is long past its credibility sell by date. So i think if she thinks that enacting emergency legislation and tough measures is going to do it i fear we will simply see an Even Stronger reaction again. She does seem to be between a rock and a hard place because there are the protesters demanding more democratic accountability and then the other place, impatient with a limited degree of democratic accountability there already is. You could play the fiction both ways. If hong kong is one country and two system then she could loved her autonomy from the chief executive of hong kong to apply a hong kong solution. The more she hesitates and the more she reaches for the hardline and the more the Peoples Armed police mass across the board at the more she looks like an ageings puppet unless she is equipped to have a proper conversation with the people of hong kong. I mean, it really is time to stop and to rebuild at this point. How do you read this . I think there is an irresistible move towards escalation at this point and it is fine and intelligent to call for a dialling down but it is obviously getting in the last 24 hours and seven days it seems to be getting worst and the switch to live ammunition is a tactic we have seen in other countries and is a sign that people are desperate to re establish control and i am just watching it day by day and hoping not to see people dead on the street. I dont have a clue what happens next. We have seen carrie lam looking sternly in front of the cameras on saturday, talking about the suppression of violence, how this is now intolerable. I dont think she is leveraging the authority she has efficiently. It is one country into systems. She could stand more on the side of the rule of law and i dont think beijing is going suffer or would suffer tremendously by allowing hong kong its own different semi or real democratic way sol its own different semi or real democratic way so i wonder myself why the Central Authority in beijing are pushing it to this point where it is going to be of huge detriment to beijings position in the world. She may have the rule behind her and the power to determine the fate but is it in beijings interest to really go this far . I think the violence has to be called off rather carrie lam has to step back and talk to the authorities in beijing and say that this is not in their interests, their common interest. Yes, that would be sensible but it is difficult to see how you do get the dialling down. What is the mechanism for there to actually be talks . The whole thing has a sort of slow motion car crash feel about it but i think the Bigger Picture is the weakness of the west looking on at this unfolding disaster but doesnt really have any locus, doesnt really have any locus, doesnt really have any locus, doesnt really have any means of trying to persuade the Chinese Government. And this is, i think from the chinese perspective, a crunch point where essentially, in terms of the growth of china and the development of china as a global power, it cannot be defeated. And that puts the students on whose side anyone who believes in democracy or some form of liberalism would be on their side, that puts them in an almost impossible situation in which there seems to be no help coming from the Global Community and the Chinese Government which, i think, elsewhere, longer term is potentially weaker than it suggests. But it has to win this struggle. But the Chinese Governments International Image and the white tries very hard to project is the one of mature magnanimity, peace and win win this is not helping it and, you know, the Chinese Government could. It hasnt sent in any Peoples Armed police yet and i think that it understands that the cost of doing that in the long term is very, very high for china and hong kong. Sol is very, very high for china and hong kong. So i think there is a certain amount of, you know, wondering what to do next and the smart move would be to be extremely reasonable and magnanimous, in my view. And there are mechanisms by which this could be dialled down for that there are five demands that the protesters have put forward was up some of them they are not going to get like full democracy. On the other hand, an independent enquiry into Police Behaviour is really quite easy to set up a w could set it up with respected International Figures if necessary. And that would bea figures if necessary. And that would be a gesture towards the other side which would really resonate, perhaps not with the hardcore which now exist but certainly with the broader population which continues to sympathise with the protesters and that what you need to reach out to at this point. I hope you are right and i hope that is the direction in which it will head. Im not saying it is likely, i am saying it is possible. It seems to run counter to all the iconography and imagery we saw. The military parade. This is a surveillance state which is becoming even more of a surveillance state and more interest in projecting its military power. It does not feel to me,| military power. It does not feel to me, i hope i am wrong, does not build me a moment in which china will take a step back. It does not want to do it in hong kong. Hong kong is still too important. There is one other route which beijing and the Hong Kong Government have been to a certain extent using, certainly beijing, in terms of pressure on business. We have seen the difficulties with flight have seen the difficulties with flight crews barred from mainland airspace, they have anyway supported the protests. Is that some carrot and stick operation that can be conducted in the background more effectively . Absolutely and i think all of the above are being used and there is a debate about whether china should site hong kong with mainland migrants and, you know, create a different demographic. That is a longer term thing. The same as finance was chinese finance move into hong kong and prop it up or should it withdraw from hong kong and let hong kong languish . Should china be persuading anyone who wants evita to move into the delta which is being, as you know, hugely dealt up is being, as you know, hugely dealt up as is being, as you know, hugely dealt upasa is being, as you know, hugely dealt up as a financial and technical centre, and that hong kong weather if hong kong wont comply . But again, these dont solve the immediate situation. We need something at this point to resolve it. Isabel said at the beginning that both sides need to dial down and we have talked a lot about what beijing can do and the Hong Kong Government can do, what about the actual protest is . Because some people look on and say, are they too far . They complain about live ammunition against protesters and natural complaint, but are they showing the same concern about Police Officers who get hit by iron bars are petrol bombs . The protesters are not a monolith and it is hard to control and it is ha rd and it is hard to control and it is hard for them to dial it down if there are people within their ranks to feel good about attacking Police Office rs to feel good about attacking Police Officers or take pleasure in that. It isjust too officers or take pleasure in that. It is just too large officers or take pleasure in that. It isjust too large a group and two out of control at this point, really,. Im sorry to interrupt. As we can hope the west is on their side, witness the recent visit of one of the leaders in berlin where the German Foreign secretary actually was there to talk to them which may bea was there to talk to them which may be a way of, you know, angering beijing and may not be a very useful diplomatic ploy but it is still a sign that they can enjoy a great amount of support from the west. But if ian is looking to the west to have a greater role and impact i dont really see how it does that, in particularly with the us. The student protest is not the way, you mean . It is an important signal but it is just a signal. But the days when the west had to influence and a lot of moral persuasion really have faded. And yet, coming back to your point about the west not having a face in hong kong any more, some would in hong kong any more, some would in hong kong any more, some would in hong kong back to the uk does still have a special place. There is an International Treaty which says one country, two systems. In the uk has a duty to uphold and remind beijing of its duty to uphold. That is absolutely right. However, their brits tend to be quite hypocritical about this in that the british government, when it did have control didnt exactly move swiftly to introduce democratic measures in hong kong. It dragged its feet is the decade so the Chinese Government is within its rights to say the british speak with forked tongue. However, it has been really disappointing. There are voices across the parliamentary spectrum in the uk, it has been disappointing to see that the uk government has not said more. Now, youre absolutely right full stop does that add up to anything meaningful . But it might if you get the European Union, you get the uk and if the us could concentrate on something other than donald trump, a range of voices applying pressure might, might, just might tip the difference. It would at least be worth trying and it is better then in the Current Situation in the west where we just seem to be looking away. The british role, the british influence is at a low ebb throughout the world just because of the domestic situation. No government with a majority, the influence of the foreign secretary who has been there seven weeks or so nobody knows how long he will be there. You cant expect britain to sort of stride back with a big impact. Saying something would at least be something. And there we have to invite move on to the uk position because that is our second big topic today. Because that is our second big topic today. Get brexit done urged the slogans at the conservative partys annual conference last week. And the british Prime Minister finally published his proposalfor a deal. But theres less than a fortnight till the european summit which would have to agree it. Many brexiteers have always insisted a deal with brussels would only happen at the 11th hour. It is now the 11th hour. Is he going to get his deal . It does not look like it and youre absolutely right, there has always been this fantasy that, at the last minute because that is the way the eu always conducts itself in difficult negotiations, you get a frantic meeting which goes on until six oclock in the morning and people emerge of the communique and say, a deal that there is a tiny, tiny chance of that but it looks as though, because of the way in which borisjohnson is though, because of the way in which Boris Johnson is now though, because of the way in which borisjohnson is now boxed in by parliament and parliament has legislated to force him or whoever iu ns legislated to force him or whoever runs the government to ask for a further extension, no one can explain what that is for other than a general election. Because he is boxed and he has put forward these proposals. The European Union does not really have much interest, it seems, in talking to him. There are talks going on but not the intensive talks going on but not the intensive talks of the british hoped would happen. The british hope was that by now youve gone into what is called the tunnel, the diplomatic channel by both sides, for ten days, would negotiate intensively and that johnsons proposals, some of that might be traded away put up you get a compromise deal. It is signed at the European Council and then there is to get out by october 31 that about now seems highly unlikely. So the main debate is really about two extends, whether it isjohnson or someone extends, whether it isjohnson or someone else as Prime Minister. What that extension is volvo that there is some suggestion the hungarians might block an extension but it seems unlikely. You end up an extension and in that extension you get a general election which is bought on the question of effectively brexit or no brexit. In those circumstances, all of tory conference, where i was this week as a journalist, watching them try and work out what happens next, then it really is a wide open question about who wins that general election. Does borisjohnson when as the champion of brexit, the person who tried to get it done, or do some other sort of remained Coalition Government emerge . We will come back to all of that in a moment but thomas, give us your ta ke a moment but thomas, give us your take on the european view at this point. Do they, the people, do you agree . The notion that ian mentioned that the eu might sort of given at the la st the eu might sort of given at the last moment usually in the past had to do with budgetary matters and so forth. Margaret thatcher said i want my money back, in the 19805, it was all resolved in the last minute. I think this brexit notion of britain leaving the eu is far too big a subject to be sort of sold at the la st subject to be sort of sold at the last moment. I have a little item to show you here. I dont know if the camera can see that clearly. It shows the impossibility of a solution. Ive heard the word unworkable used about borisjohnsons latest heard the word unworkable used about Boris Johnsons latest proposal to the eu and this is an unworkable mug. It has the name of brexit sorta broke and through it and you cant drink from it. This is not my position. It isjust the way drink from it. This is not my position. It is just the way we are. It isjust a state we have reached. Do you have one with the euro zone written on it . That is a good point because the euro zone is not in the most glorious place, as we know. That is why i think, another referendum in this country to be held on whether you want to not might go the old way. Is this a gift to the programme or a gift to ian . The victoria and Albert Museum have found it so interesting they have included it in their collection of current british art. Along with the coronation mugs. To come back to it, the unwelcome ability seem to be prove n the unwelcome ability seem to be proven after three and half years we have not reached a solution. I agree with ian. There will be an extension plea without Boris Johnson signed with ian. There will be an extension plea without borisjohnson signed it or not isnt really essential. And there will be an election which i think he is going to look forward to with great equanimity. But none of you are accepting the prospect that perhaps borisjohnson means it when he says, under no circumstances will he seek an extension. Perhaps he is going to go rogue. It is illegal at this point. Well, says who . He can go rogue and challenge parliament and challenge the lawyers and challenge the Supreme Court and it will probably end up in a Supreme Court within 72 hours and something will happen but it is certainly a prospect. It isa it is certainly a prospect. It is a possibility. He could decide to go rogue. We did that with suspending parliament and it backfired with the Supreme Court. He might come in the final ten or 11 days, he doesnt send the letter and parliament cant agree who replaces him he could do as you describe, just lock himself in numberten, as you describe, just lock himself in number ten, refused to answer the phone and then just wait for it to be fought out in court. That might happen. He has said, deal 01 no that might happen. He has said, deal or no deal but no delay. How do you explain that . He has also said he would rather die ina ditch. He has also said he would rather die in a ditch. We have options here. But, you know, he has. We have. When you say we have options do you mean he could leave and let somebody else tackle the extension . If un call foran else tackle the extension . If un call for an extension and, you know, he is confined by the law of the land, you know, then maybe he has to go for this to be resolved. I think at this point, you know, this thing has been fraught with fantasy from the start. I absolutely agree with thomas that, you know, the notion that it will be done at the la st notion that it will be done at the last minute is the kind of thing we all used to sit outside european summits, you know, three in the morning awaiting. Paragraph five, subparagraph c, to be agreed. This was a tiny thing. This was never going to be like that. You spent three years discovering, for those who did not realise at the beginning, that anything which is negotiable with the eu is not a cce pta ble negotiable with the eu is not acceptable to the hardliners in the conservative party who have voted against the to raise voted against the to raise voted against the to raise voted against the theresa may deals. I dont see what is going to change that. You can have a general election which in all likelihood would lead to a representation in parliament not that different from what we have got and here we would be again. So it is that, we would be here again. Election, what happens next . After the events of the last five years on both sides of the atlantic anyone who calls general elections based on the polling when you go into them as being very foolish indeed. So there isa being very foolish indeed. So there is a range of outcomes in a general election and it runs from a Hung Parliament in which the tories are not even the Largest Party because the voters punish them for the chaos, right the way through to, and i think this is the more likely, if he can corral all of the pro brexit vote, which is really in terms of the main brexit vote around 40 of the main brexit vote around 40 of the uk electorate, people who really ca re the uk electorate, people who really care about it. And that is the new tribe in british politics. If you can corral that he probably wins an election quite big. How could he corral that if he has not got it done by the date that he said . Thats the thing which changed in the last week and changed at conservative party conference. The assumption all along has been and i certainly think this was valid in summer certainly think this was valid in summer that if he didnt get out backed over 31st and there was a delay he was completely toes because that was his main strategic insight when he tory leader that he had to get it done. But if he is forced into it and it leads immediately to an election he could see that members of the cabinet and tory mp5 who had previously would not have counselled that it is a different question as to whether the voters would put up with that, are starting to calculate that it might be ok for him and allow them to go into an election saying that he is the guy who is being blocked by the remain establishment and he wants to get it done and that might. That is a clear message but what isnt clear is you say there is 40 support for breakfast. Sorry, brexit there may well be but which brexit, what brexit . If the European Union wont accept boriss brexit and certainly ireland will not go for this arrangement and that is, you know, the immovable points that both sides, which brexit. I would like a deal. And brexiteers, the big message of what is going on in britain is a fascinating report by Kings Policy Institute this week gold divided britain which actually challenges the notion that britain is more divided than it has ever been. Ina is more divided than it has ever been. In a whole swathe of social issues when acting quite united but what has happened is that Party Allegiance has collapsed and it has been replaced with tribal allegiance around brexit. There is pro brexit voters, a lot of attention goes on to how remain as had become radicalised at brexiteers have become radicalised and whether or not they like johnson, lots of brexit voters have doubts about him, they have found someone who wants to get this done and they see it might be wrong, as a primary democratic imperative and they want this done and they want this concluded whether thatis and they want this concluded whether that is with a deal or without a deal. And that is a very clear, powerful message. But that is another allusion, lets get it done as though it is at a stroke of a pen it is over. It is not going to be over. Brexit negotiations are never ever. That is a good question. We have a deal on the table which is theresa mays new and im hoping perhaps against hope that eventually it will dawn on people that this deal wasnt such a deal at all because it does provide for an exit for the eu after a period of interim years until 2021 and then you go into a negotiation ofa and then you go into a negotiation of a trade deal. What is so bad, what is so ruinous for the fate of Great Britain that you cant wait another two years until you get to the point where your dream is fulfilled . That is the hidden story of this week that essentially what Boris Johnson is doing is changing the font on the withdrawal agreement, specific change in customs to Northern Ireland, personally i think the European Union has negotiated brilliantly but it is only a billion negotiation as long as it gets a deal through and it looks like it when. It looks like it has a deal on the table from Boris Johnson when. It looks like it has a deal on the table from borisjohnson but i think it should take seriously and should move a bit. How are we going to convince the Prime Minister of ireland that he should go for that . This is the moment and this is where the European Union as an institution sort of falls down in great power terms. I understand why the 27 are united but this is where you would hope that macron and Angela Merkel would be able to negotiate. The has a lwa ys would be able to negotiate. The has always been fudged and from the start of this process whatever happens from Northern Ireland, if you want to avoid a hard border which everyone does, everyone does, then that was going to require some form of fudge. We can argue about whether that customs checks should be in the irish sea or away from the border, but that is always, and was a lwa ys border, but that is always, and was always going to come down to this question of whether it could be fudged and i think, i would hope that macron could persuade the irish premier to move a little bit because it is in everyones interest to have a deal. We have got one minute left so lets ta ke we have got one minute left so lets take the rest of the table and whether there is any chance of getting what ian is talking about done before the summit. In the middle of the that is not going to happen. Zero chance. Zero chance. That didnt even take a minute. But do you think, then, he goes back horror borisjohnson, to the electorate and says, you do is make your suggested message about i need a mandate now to get this done and i was forced for the extension and now we have to give me the mandate and then go back to the European Union with exactly the same . That bundled up what could possibly go wrong . He is so popular in the country. A magnetic personality in many ways. There we have to leave it on the hypothesis of an election. There we have to leave it on the hypothesis of an election. Thats it for dateline london for this week were back next week at the same time. Goodbye. It has been pretty unsubtle this week, particularly across england and wales and this weekend is continuing on that unsettled theme. Today looks like most of the rain will be towards the west of the uk, a bit brighter further eastern on sunday it is a reverse but some very wet places expected across eastern areas as those front stalls. It is this front time talking about putting gradually in of the atlantic to bring increasing cloud and outbreaks of rain to parts of Northern Ireland, western scotland in western england and wales as the day wears on that further research should stay largely dry. A bit of hazy sunshine around, probably the best of the sunshine will be across the north east of scotland into the northern isles. Shetland doing very well be some clear skies and sunshine there. Temperatures around 11 degrees are maybe one or two showers around without the winds will be picking up from the south south east of the day and we will see that rain piling into western scotland, turning wet and windy here. Same, two for Northern Ireland and into western parts of england and into western parts of england and wales. Its a little bit of light rain and drizzle head of the main rain band for wales in the south west but it should stay dry in the midlands eastwards. Top temperatures around 15, 16, may be 17 degrees. That is how it is looking for the day as we head on into this evening and overnight that rain continues to spill its way eastwards, picking up to be quite heavyin eastwards, picking up to be quite heavy in places with a piece of the brighter colours there, dont be surprised a few here a rumble of thunder or two in places was about ten a little bit drier behind it by the end overnight. Just one or two showers. Nowhere is going to be particularly cold. Temperatures in double figures. This ridge of High Pressure pushes into Western Areas to settle things down but the rain band stalls across the eastern side of the country as it bums into that area of High Pressures are quite a lot of rain falling throughout the day across the eastern side of the country. The met office have yellow warning is in force for eastern scotla nd warning is in force for eastern scotland and eastern parts of england. We could see some localised flooding by that on the day is out. It does look like the rain were slowly pull away from scotland, leaving a few showers. Most of the rain affecting eastern side of england. A little area of here. The winds will pick up as well across the midlands, southern england and into the south east but we should see the best of the sunshine further west on sunday. Top temperatures around 17 degrees. Mid teens for the north. Internic speak very autumnal weather. It was they unsettled with areas of low pressure being wet and windy weather time but there will be some sunshine in between as well. Good afternoon. Donald trumps political opponents have intensified efforts to impeach the president. Three congressional committees have demanded legal documents relating to a telephone call by mr trump, in which he asked ukraine to investigate his president ial rival, joe biden. From washington, Chris Buckler reports. What was a request has become a demand. Democrats are piling the pressure on President Trump by issuing a subpoena for a series of documents. They want a full, rather than a rough, transcript of thejuly phone call in which he asked the ukrainian leader, Volodymyr Zelenskiy to investigate his political rival