Transcripts For BBCNEWS Verified 20240704

Be happening, and we have to act on it and be happening, and we have to act on it and took be happening, and we have to act on it and took at be happening, and we have to act on it and look at it. It is happening, it and look at it. It is happening, it is starting it and look at it. It is happening, it is starting to happen in some maternity it is starting to happen in some Maternity Units around the uk, but we have Maternity Units around the uk, but we have heard from experts saying it is not we have heard from experts saying it is not widespread enough, and i would is not widespread enough, and i would bet is not widespread enough, and i would bet that that is something, using would bet that that is something, using that would bet that that is something, using that kind of data much more rigorously using that kind of data much more rigorously and really digging down into the rigorously and really digging down into the data, i would bet that is something that comes out of the inquiry something that comes out of the inquiry that has been announced today inquiry that has been announced toda. , inquiry that has been announced toda. � , inquiry that has been announced toda. � ,. ~ inquiry that has been announced toda. � ,. Today. Yeah, lets ust talk about that for a today. Yeah, lets just talk about that for a moment. Today. Yeah, lets just talk about that for a moment. It today. Yeah, lets just talk about that for a moment. It was today. Yeah, lets just talk about that for a moment. It was something that for a moment. It was something that was called for by the families even as the trial concluded, they were saying that they wanted to see an independent inquiry. What sort of power does not have to actually change the system . What are we likely to get from that . Change the system . What are we likely to get from that . Well, as i understand likely to get from that . Well, as i understand it, likely to get from that . Well, as i understand it, it likely to get from that . Well, as i understand it, it is likely to get from that . Well, as i understand it, it is an likely to get from that . Well, as i | understand it, it is an independent inquiry understand it, it is an independent inquiry that understand it, it is an independent inquiry that does not have statutory powers. Inquiry that does not have statutory powers. So inquiry that does not have statutory powers. So i inquiry that does not have statutory powers, so i do not think it can force powers, so i do not think it can force people to give evidence. But, honestly. Force people to give evidence. But, honestly. I force people to give evidence. But, honestly, i dont think that is going honestly, i dont think that is going to honestly, i dont think that is going to be a problem in this case. Setup going to be a problem in this case. Setup on going to be a problem in this case. Set up on that basis because these independent inquiries tend to be a bit more independent inquiries tend to be a bit more flexible, they can report more bit more flexible, they can report more quickly, and the idea, i think, is to more quickly, and the idea, i think, is to give more quickly, and the idea, i think, is to give families answers in a very is to give families answers in a very timely fashion, and also the secretary very timely fashion, and also the secretary of state, steve barclay, has said secretary of state, steve barclay, has said that he wants the families to he has said that he wants the families to be involved in the shaping of that inquiry, and he wants them very much that inquiry, and he wants them very much to that inquiry, and he wants them very much to he that inquiry, and he wants them very much to be involved. I think most people much to be involved. I think most people would agree that is absolutely the right thing to do. So we dont absolutely the right thing to do. So we dont know exactly what the remit of the we dont know exactly what the remit of the inquiry is going to be yet, because of the inquiry is going to be yet, because the process has not really started. Because the process has not really started, we do not know who will chair started, we do not know who will chair it. Started, we do not know who will chair it. Lrut started, we do not know who will chair it, but i imagine it will dig down chair it, but i imagine it will dig down into chair it, but i imagine it will dig down into the circumstances around lucy letby down into the circumstances around lucy letby and particularly focus, particularly focus on the concerns that were particularly focus on the concerns that were raised by the consultants here under that were raised by the consultants here under the that were raised by the consultants here underthe numbers that were raised by the consultants here under the numbers of staff, and why there here under the numbers of staff, and why there concerns were not listened to, and why there concerns were not listened to. And why why there concerns were not listened to, and why management here back in 201516 to, and why management here back in 2015 16 seems to be protecting lucy letby. 2015 16 seems to be protecting lucy letby, ratherthan 2015 16 seems to be protecting lucy letby, rather than really vigorously investigating what was going on in the unit investigating what was going on in the unit. A , investigating what was going on in the unit. ,. , the unit. Many of those questions that they families the unit. Many of those questions that they families want the unit. Many of those questions that they families want answers l the unit. Many of those questions i that they families want answers to. We have been bringing you a lot of the reaction and statements from people involved in this. We were talking there about the hospital and about the fact that a lot of the administration has changed since the time of lucy letby� s offending. Ian harvey is the former Medical Director, he was in place when lucy letby was carrying out those crimes. I want to bring you his full statement. He says, at this time, my thoughts are with the babies whose treatment has been the focus of the trial and with their parents and relatives who have been through something unimaginable, and i am sorry for all their suffering. As Medical Director, i was determined to keep the baby unit safe and support our staff. I wanted the reviews and investigations carried out so that we could tell the parents what had happened to their children. I believe there should be an inquiry that looks at all events leading up to this trial and i will help it in whatever way i can. That is a statement from ian harvey, the former Medical Director at the countess of Chester Hospital, who was imposed at the time of lucy letby� s offending, the time that this trial has focused on, this trial which has found her guilty of murdering seven babies in her care and attempting to murder six more. Now, questions, as dominic hughes, was saying, have been asked about the reporting procedures in this case and the robustness of the response from the hospital. An investigation by bbc news and bbc panorama has uncovered the fact that, in fact, panorama has uncovered the fact that, infact, Child Mortality panorama has uncovered the fact that, in fact, Child Mortality on the unit was far higher than would have been expected, and in fact when concerns were raised, they were dismissed by senior members of staff. Our social Affairs Correspondent Michael Buchanan has this exclusive report. This is the story of an nhs trust that didnt properly investigate why 13 babies died in a one year period. Instead, it turned against the very people who wanted the police to examine the deaths. There is only one Serial Killer of babies that has worked in that organisation, and the Executive Team were not the people who were responsible for the deaths of those babies. But they had some opportunities to get to the bottom of what was happening. Susan gilbeyjoined The Countess Of Chester Nhs Trust A Month after lucy letby was arrested. Within two months, she was made Chief Executive, a post she held until last december. Through documents and speaking to staff, she learned what the trust knew about the Serial Killer. The first three babies died injune 2015. The Executive Team held a meeting at which it was agreed that an external investigation into the deaths would be held. It never happened. By october, with seven babies now dead, a Staff Analysis of the incidents made a link between all the deaths and lucy letby being on shift, but it was still seen as coincidental. In february 2016, with ten babies now dead, the director of nursing, alison kelly, and ian harvey, the Medical Director, were asked for an urgent meeting to discuss the deaths and lucy letby� s links to all of them. They didnt respond for three months. The paediatricians were discussing the terrible nights on call that they were having. One of them said, every time this is happening to me, that im being called in for these catastrophic events which were unexpected and unexplained, lucy letby is there, and then Somebody Else said, i found that. And then someone else had the same response. And they all realised that the common factor for each of them was letby� s presence on the unit. Injune 2016, two babies died on consecutive days. 13 children had now died. Lucy letby was on shift for all of them. The day after the second death, the nurse was due back on the unit. Paediatrician Steve Brearley rang the duty manager asking for her to be replaced. The manager refused. I challenged her. I said, are you saying that you are making this decision against the wishes of seven Consultant Paediatricians . And she said yes. And i said, well, if you are making this decision, are you taking responsibility of anything that might happen tomorrow to any of our babies . And she said yes. Lucy letby went to work, and a baby unexpectedly collapsed. We were urging them to investigate our concerns appropriately, and most of us felt the most appropriate way to do that would be to go to the police. The response from the Medical Director was unsupportive. In an e mail to the paediatricians obtained by panorama, ian harvey wrote, action is being taken. All e mails ceased forthwith. The police were not called. Instead, in september 2016, the Royal College of paediatrics and child health was asked to carry out a review of the Neonatal Unit. It urged the trust to investigate each death individually. This didnt happen. Around this time, lucy letby launched a Grievance Procedure against the paediatricians. The internal process agreed that she had been discriminated against and victimised by the doctors on the unit. With the paediatricians wanting a Police Investigation injanuary 2017, an extraordinary Board Meeting was held. The Medical Director, ian harvey, gave a verbal report. He said external reviews had not highlighted any individual as being linked to the deaths and that the trust was ready to draw a line under the issues. The Chief Executive, tony chambers, said he had met lucy letby and her parents to apologise for what had happened. A statement Written By Letby was read out, detailing how hard the past few months had been for her. The meeting decided lucy letby would return to the Neonatal Unit after the paediatricians had written a Letter Apologising to her. This is the letter sent to her, signed by all seven of the paediatricians. Against their wishes, they apologised for any inappropriate comments that had been made, going on to say, we are very sorry for the stress and upset you have experienced in the last year. Though the paediatricians feared being reported to the regulator, they kept going, urging the trust to report the cases to the police, something the trust did eventually in 2017. Protecting the reputation of the organisation was a big factor in how people responded to the concerns raised. They were dragged kicking and screaming, the Executive Team, to calling the police. That would certainly be the conclusion that i would reach. At the time letby was arrested in july 2018, she was still working at the trust. No disciplinary action had been taken against her. The strong opinion was that nothing would be found. There was a Brief Overlap of three or four days between myself and the outgoing Medical Director, and his parting words to me, to my surprise, were you need to refer the paediatricians to the gmc. They were not referred to the general medical council. Instead, all the executives who doubted the doctors and supported lucy letby left the countess of chester trust. They all refused to comment ahead of todays verdict. Michael buchanan, bbc news, cheshire. For viewers in the uk, a bbc panorama documentary . Lucy letby the nurse who killed . Will be available to watch on iplayer later today. We have been bringing a reaction through out the last few hours on bbc news, reaction from various people involved in this trial, and we brought you the response from the countess of Chester Hospital, this was the hospital in which lucy letby was the hospital in which lucy letby was working, in its Neonatal Unit, when she carried out these murders and attempted murders over this 12 month period, and we had a statement from doctor nigel scawn, the current Medical Director at the countess of Chester Hospital. I speak for the whole trust when i say how deeply saddened and appalled we are at lucy letby� s crimes. We are extremely sorry that these crimes were committed at our hospital. And our thoughts continue to be with all the families and loved ones of the babies who came to harm or who died. We cannot begin to understand what they have been through. This case has had a profound impact on our patients and our local community, and also our staff. They come to work every day determined to provide safe and high quality care for all of our patients. Our staff are devastated by what has happened, and we are committed to ensuring that lessons continue to be learned. We are grateful for the cooperation of our staff, especially those that have maintained the utmost professionalism was giving evidence in this trial, sometimes on multiple occasions. We will continue to support them and our other staff to ensure they receive the care and support that they need. We would like to extend our thanks to Cheshire Police for their extensive investigation and the work they did to bring this case to trial. Wed also like to thank them for the comprehensive support that they have provided to all the families involved. Since lucy letby worked at our hospital, we have made significant changes to our services. And i want to provide reassurance to every patient that may access our services that they can have confidence in the care that they will receive. Finally, and most importantly, our thoughts are with all the families and loved ones at this very difficult time. Thank you. That was dr nigel scawn, the current Medical Director at the countess of Chester Hospital. Lets also hear from dr Stephen Brearey, who used to work in the Neonatal Unit, he led the team of seven consultants in that unit, one of the people who raised concerns that he said were not acted upon, and he has been speaking tojudith moritz. If we go back to the summer of 2015, when did you first become concerned . A review of the care of all three babies was done, and there was nothing in common that we could pin these three deaths on. But the Staff Analysis did identify that lucy letby was on shift for those three episodes. And did that worry you . Well, i think i can remember saying, oh no, it cant be lucy, nice lucy. Tell me about when you remember first meeting lucy letby. I dont recall the first time that i met lucy letby. She started work in 2012. She didnt strike me as too different to most nurses on the unit. You didnt have any worries about her doing thejob . I dont think anybody did. It is something that nobody really wants to consider, you know, that a member of staff might be harming the babies under your care. Can you give us a sense of what was happening in the unit over the summer and autumn of 2015 in terms of there being more unexplained collapses and deaths . It was the first time i started to have some concerns about the unusual nature of the collapses and the deaths. I e mailed the unit manager after this death in october, and i asked to discuss lucy letby and her association with the deaths. Some of the babies did not respond to resuscitation quite how we would have expected them to. Most babies get a heart rate back, their breathing would get better, but that didnt happen in these cases like you would expect, which was unusual. As the year turned into early 2016, particularly february 2016, things took another turn. Youd asked for an urgent meeting. Thats correct, yes. As a group, our concerns were rising. Theres no communication from senior managers in the trust. And how long did it take for that meeting to come about . The meeting did not happen until may. Tell me about the fact that after two of the triplets died injune, you had a debrief, talk me through what happened. Lucy letby was there, she was sitting next to me. I spoke to her towards the end of the meeting, and i said how tired and upset she must be after two days of this, and i hoped that she was going to have a restful weekend. Which struck me as being incredible, really. The other staff were very traumatised by all of this, we were crumbling before your eyes almost. And she was quite happy and confident to come into work on the saturday. And it was, shortly after that, that lucy letby was taken off duty. Yes. Would you say that was the Tipping Point . Certainly, the Tipping Point for the consultant body, who wanted to work in a safe environment. We had a number of meetings with senior management, it was quite clear that they were not going to budge and they didnt think it appropriate to go to the police at that stage. Do you think its the case that if you hadnt persisted, there would never have been a Police Investigation . Im sure, yeah. That was the intention of the executives, was to somehow close this case. Was this a cover up . I dont know how youd define a cover up, but to us, the evidence in front of us was quite clear. It felt like they were trying to engineer some sort of narrative, a way out of this that didnt involve going to the police. If you want to call that a cover up, then thats a cover up. Can expectant mothers coming into the unit have confidence . I think those parents can expect, em. As high a level of care on our unit as any unit in the country. Its upsetting, this. Weve got though a particularly hard time, and i think we owe it to the families, for them to know that the staff care. I think you really see and hear some of the emotion that has been present in this case, dr Stephen Brearey was one of the team of consultants working in the Neonatal Unit at the countess of Chester Hospital at the time of lucy letby� s offending. We have also been bringing you various reactions from people involved in the case. Tony chambers, former Chief Executive of the countess of Chester Hospital Nhs Foundation trust, has released a statement. It reads, all my thoughts are with the children at the heart of this case and their families and loved ones at this incredibly difficult time. I am truly sorry for what all the families have gone through. The crimes that have been committed are appalling, and i am deeply saddened by what has come to light. The trial, and the lengthy Police Investigation, have shown the complex nature of the issues raised. I will co operate fully and openly with any post trial inquiry. And of course since that statement, the government has announced there will be an independent inquiry into lucy letby� s offending during her time at the countess of Chester Hospital. We have been talking about the emotions, some of the distressing imagery and testimony. If you are in the uk and you need some advice or some support, it is worth taking a look at the bbc action line, you can find a list of organisations who can help you with that if you go to the bbc news app or bbc news website. Asi as i say, details of different types of organisations who can give you advice and support you might need if you are, perhaps understandably, finding this story today particularly distressing to watch and to listen to. Of course, one of the reasons for that is the enormous amount of very harrowing evidence that has been heard in court throughout the nine months of this trial, nine months to the day from the Opening Statements here at Manchester Crown court to the jury being sent out by the judge, mr justice goss, to consider their verdicts. My colleague Dan Odonoghue has been here throughout, listened to every day of evidence, medical evidence, but often, in a case like this, as we were seeing and hearing there, just the raw human reactions, and you have been watching the reactions of the families, of lucy letby� s colleagues who have been giving evidence. A lot of that must have been difficult for you to watch, but particularly for people involved to go through. Yes. People involved to go through. Yes, ou people involved to go through. Yes, you touched people involved to go through. Yes, you touched on people involved to go through. Yes, you touched on lucy people involved to go through. Is you touched on lucy letbys former colleagues, these were doctors and nurses who are working on the unit in 201516, nurses who are working on the unit in 2015 16, and i saw things they had never seen before or since, and for a lot of those doctors and nurses, they were having to relive some of the worst moments of their careers as well, they repeatedly told how they battled to save the childrens lives, how they had to administer dose after dose of adrenaline trying to revive children who had been subjected to embolus, an injection of air into the system which causes a blockage to blood vessels. So it was incredibly difficult for them, and you have also got the consultants in this case, we touched on a few already, dr Stephen Brearey was a key witness in this case who tried to raise concerns over lucy letby. In the witness box, they reflected on the fact that nothing was done at a time, they said they wished, on reflection, they had gone to the police. But they had to sit there and watch these doctors really battle with their own consciences, really, to realise the enormity of what it was that was going on on that unit. Obviously, a lot of the parents in this case, they had their statements read, so the prosecuting barrister would read a great statements on the final hours or moments of one of the childs lives, and there were a couple of sets of parents who came in, and as i say, they had to relive what must have been the worst evening of their life, sometimes in dramatic circumstance, where the mother of one baby, i think we touched on it early, baby e, the mother arrived to hear her child making horrendous sounds, lucy letby being alone with a baby, and a nurse told the mother to go back up to the ward, that a doctor was on the way. We now know that that was not the case. Dan. That that was not the case. Dan, thank you. That that was not the case. Dan, thank you. Dan that that was not the case. Dan, thank you, Dan Odonoghue, that that was not the case. Dan, thank you, Dan Odonoghue, who has followed this trial throughout. As i say, it has been an extensive trial, the jury themselves had deliberated for more than 100 hours, more than 110 hours, infact, before for more than 100 hours, more than 110 hours, in fact, before the trial came to its conclusion on what was today the 22nd Day Ofjury deliberations. And i think a lot of people really considering what dan was saying, and what we have heard on the steps of Manchester Crown court, both from the police, from the crown prosecution service, and from the family liaison officers, really considering tonight the impact on those families from giving birth in the first instance to children who are often very premature and very sick, who thought they were in a place where they were getting the best possible care, and to go through that moment of sudden crash, sudden illness, and then to find out that was down to a nurse on the ward who had murdered or attempted to murder their children. She has been convicted today, lucy letby, of seven murders and six attempted murders. This, of course, has raised many questions, the government has launched an independent inquiry into her crimes, and of course that investigation will continue for the next few weeks and months. Now a full Weather Forecast with christopher blanchett. Hello there. Its a fairly cloudy picture across a good part of the uk through the course of this afternoon. Weve seen some hefty downpours earlier on, but those tending to fade away. There is some heavy rain on the way later on. Before we get there, though, still some sharp showers across parts of the south east, in towards the midlands and further towards the north west, in towards northern ireland. Some cool winds around north sea coasts as well, pegging Back Temperatures here, but temperatures elsewhere, a humid feel, up to around 23 celsius. We need to look towards the south west for tonights heavy rain. Its the storm system thats been named storm betty, and its going to bring some heavy rain and high winds for many parts of the country as we head into this evening and overnight. You can see that wet weather across parts of the isles of scilly, in towards devon and cornwall, towards dorset, much of wales. Really poor conditions if youre out and about having to drive through that. Very high winds around the west coast as well, with some high waves and disruption is likely. Overnight, some hefty downpours, maybe thundery towards east anglia. Several weeks worth of august rainfall likely here. That rain band continues to track north in towards scotland as we head through the early hours. Its a close, humid feeling night, with temperatures for many holding in the mid to high teens. Tomorrow, that heavy rain still with us across scotland. The winds here brisk coming in from the east and journeying northwards towards the northern isles. Weve got a wrap round of cloud and rain in towards northern ireland, Southern Scotland and towards cumbria, but actually, much of england and wales having a decent saturday with some sunny spells and a few showers around. Temperatures up to around 2a, 25 celsius in the south east. Eastern coastal parts much warmer compared with today. Looking ahead to overnight tomorrow night and into sunday, that rain pulling away, but weve still got low pressure anchored to the north west. That means the closer that you are to that area of low pressure, a number of showers are likely, or even longer spells of rain. The further east that you are, generally dry with some spells of sunshine. Once again, temperatures through central, southern and Eastern England in the mid 20s at times. Further north and west, a wee bit fresher. Once again, the east coast, not bad compared with recent days. Monday is similar. Weve got showers or longer spells of rain across western scotland, northern ireland, as well. The further south and east that you are, the drier it will be and temperatures up a notch, reaching 26 degrees across parts of the south east. Thats the forecast for now. Live from manchester, this is bbc news. Lucy letby is found guilty of murdering seven babies and the attempted murders of six others. The families say theyre stunned and angry. Today, justice has been served and a nurse who shouldve been caring for our babies has been found guilty of harming them. But this justice will not take away from the extreme hurt, anger and distress weve all had to experience. This is the Moment Police arrested lucy letby in chester. Shes now the most profilic child killer in modern british history. The government launches an independent inquiry into letbys crimes and how concerns raised at the time were handled. Hello. Youre watching bbc news coming live from manchester. Im anna foster. Here in the uk, nurse lucy letby has been found guilty of murdering seven babies and attempting to murder six others at a hospital in chester