Transcripts For BBCNEWS Talking 20240703

Killed in fighting on saturday. Meanwhile, Majorairlines Have cancelled dozens of flights to tel aviv. They include american airlines, air france, lufthansa, emirates, and ryanair, among others. For the latest on the story and to assess what this escalation of tension means for the whole region ive been speaking to our chief international correspondent, lyse doucet. After this extraordinary assault this morning by hamas, which as we have been hearing has taken the israelis by surprise, this is really an unprecedented moment, in of course an area where there has been decades of tension, attacks, all out war. This is a very, very different kind of war for all of the reasons we have just been hearing. The Staggering Number of israeli hostages, both Israeli Military officers and soldiers as well as civilians. The high Israeli Death toll. A far right israeli government. There will certainly be pressure on Benjamin Netanyahu to do what he and other israeli leaders have avoided for decades, and that is a major Ground Offensive into gaza, if not a reoccupation of this strip that israel pulled its troops out of in 2005. There are no good options for Benjamin Netanyahu. But each one of them is fraught with risk. And hamas is in no mood as well, it seems, to hold its fire. No good options, to borrow your parlance there, and it comes at a time when the death toll on both sides is already high. What are your concerns for the human cost here . There is a collective ringing of hands in many capitals, the death toll is high on the palestinian side, high on the israeli side and it will only continue to rise. There is no sense that this is going to stop any time soon, quite the contrary. Both sides are vowing to make their enemy pay. We dont know how many rockets, how many weapons, how much ammunition hamas and islamichhad still have at the ready in the gaza strip. We dont know what tactics, what moves israel will make next, but there will be pressure for israel to do Something Big soon. As you say, the potential for a crisis within a crisis. Countries Around The World watching this with grave concern. Just walk us through some of the international reaction. Well, of course, as expected, President Biden came out firmly on the side of israel, as it always does in these crises, saying, we will stand with israel, condemning the attacks by hamas. The phones must be burning behind the scenes. What has been noticeable is some of the major arab states, saudi arabia, united arab emirates, in the past they would have been very critical of israel. They would have been much more tilting towards the palestinians, even if they would have been calling for restraint. But we have to place this in the context, it comes at a time where the United States and israel felt they were making progress on what is a big political prize, that Prime Minister netanyahu was after, and that is the recognition by saudi arabia of the jewish state. Many believe this is one of the factors behind the timing of this hamas attack, to send a very strong message that they are still a force to be reckoned with, and that there are still major issues to resolve before saudi arabia, major sunni power, custodian of the two holiest muslim shrines, in mecca and medina, can take that step to recognise the jewish state. And on that point, are there concerns about contagion in the region . Yes, and this is another dangerous aspect of this confrontation. In the past, when there has been all out war, it has spread to the occupied west bank, where there were perhaps attacks or explosions, protests, tensions. But this time there is a worry that the unrest in the gaza, in the occupied west bank, there has been rising confrontation with right wing jewish settlers, clashes in the area, rising disillusionment with the Palestinian Authority as well, a rival to hamas. And there are embers there, and any match will light a huge fire in that region as well. Concern too about the lebanese border, but its not clear whether hezbolla, also an ally or hamas, would want to open up another front. Behind this, of course, we have to remember iran, a big backer of hamas, hezbollah, and islamichhad, also a player to be reckoned with in the gaza strip. To use your phrase, there are crises within crises, layers within layers. So behind this urgent question about what happens next, another question about, when the day comes, and it will come, when the fighting stops, what is the long Term Solution to these crises which continue to rock the region . A never ending cycle of ever growing suffering. For full forfull analysis of for full analysis of this situation,. With me is elise labott, Contributing Editor for Politico Magazine and founder of zivvy media. Were alsojoined by were also joined by barbara starr. Thank for being with us tonight. , we have heard those comments from Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu saying, we are at war and we will win this war. What do you anticipate, with your expertise, your years reporting there on the ground, what do you anticipate happening next . What do you anticipate hauenina next . ~ happening next . When you say ou want happening next . When you say you want to happening next . When you say you want to go happening next . When you say you want to go to happening next . When you say you want to go to war happening next . When you say you want to go to war and happening next . When you say you want to go to war and you | you want to go to war and you want to win, that means you want to win, that means you want a victory. What will that entail . There will be some kind of Ground Incursion into gaza. Prime minister netanyahu has been very reluctant over the last few years with hamas. In 2008, another conflict in gaza, he has been reluctant to go in. This time it is inevitable there will be some kind of Ground Incursion, especially when you have so many israeli hostages involved. I when you have so many israeli hostages involved. Hostages involved. I want to Brina Hostages involved. I want to brin in hostages involved. I want to bring in cnns hostages involved. I want to bring in cnns former hostages involved. I want to. Bring in cnns Former Pentagon Correspondent barbara starr. As you well know, we are talking about when it comes to israeli intelligence, one of the most, if not the most sophisticated intelligence operations in the world, questions will be asked tonight, notjust from within tonight, not just from within israel tonight, notjust from within israel but also from the United States surely, about what went wrong . What happened here . I think that is absolutely right and Intelligence Services around and Intelligence Services Around The World will want to have Around The World will want to have some sense of this, because have some sense of this, because one thing these guys dont because one thing these guys dont like, they hate surprises. No Intelligence Service surprises. No Intelligence Service once any surprises. They service once any surprises. They want service once any surprises. They want to know about things before they want to know about things before they even happen. Clearly before they even happen. Clearly the israelis didnt know clearly the israelis didnt know about this. It will be interesting if the us goes back through interesting if the us goes back through its own cable traffic, sees through its own cable traffic, sees if through its own cable traffic, sees if it through its own cable traffic, sees if it had any hints that something was in the works. They something was in the works. They will something was in the works. They will have to figure out what they will have to figure out what went wrong, how to fix it, how what went wrong, how to fix it, how hamas got around them, apparently by going the low tech route, staying off of electronic communications, staying electronic communications, staying away from people that they thought might be spying on them, they thought might be spying on them, the israelis have a lot of their them, the israelis have a lot of their own sources inside gaza of their own sources inside gaza. They went the low tech route, gaza. They went the low tech route, they left no pattern and they route, they left no pattern and theyiust route, they left no pattern and theyjust launched this attack but make no mistake, lots of organisation, time, effort, money, organisation, time, effort, money, weapons, training and their money, weapons, training and their own money, weapons, training and their own hamas intelligence, they their own hamas intelligence, they knew where to go, what they they knew where to go, what they were after and what they were they were after and what they were doing. A lot on their state were doing. A lot on their state went into this. One of the key state went into this. One of the key questions is what went wrong the key questions is what went wrong with the intelligence but also, wrong with the intelligence but also, what does the intelligence have now to target the people in the Mass Community that they want to go after . Community that they want to go after . Do community that they want to go after . Do they know now who is behind after . Do they know now who is behind this . Can they target them behind this . Can they target them with precision . A lot of people them with precision . A lot of people will tell you, wars and at the people will tell you, wars and at the Negotiation Table not at the point of the gun. Israel has the point of the gun. Israel has been the point of the gun. Israel has been at this point many times has been at this point many times before, moving against hamas. Times before, moving against hamas, against hezbolla. These are groups that continue to stick are groups that continue to stick around, not because the israeiis stick around, not because the israelis have been able to come after israelis have been able to come after them, they have their own agenda, after them, they have their own agenda, their own back on, their agenda, their own back on, their own agenda, their own back on, their own support and that is something israel will have to address something israel will have to address and many countries will have address and many countries will have to address and many countries will have to address. If you want peace have to address. If you want peace in have to address. If you want peace in the middle east, its a lot peace in the middle east, its a lot deeper than some air strikes a lot deeper than some air strikes and ground manoeuvres. An important point theyre made by barbara starr. Barbara, stay with us but we want to bring our viewers some sound, speaking to the bbc, former israeli Prime Minister said this was a hard day for israel and hamas would pay the price for the attacks. For the attacks. This is an unprovoked, for the attacks. This is an unprovoked, deliberate l for the attacks. This is an unprovoked, deliberate attack on the state of israel so the state of israel is at war. We are at war with a terror state of hamas in gaza and it will continue as long as it needs to. We handed gaza over to the guy we gave the keys to 15 or more years ago. We pulled out every single soldier, we pulled out every single israeli from their and we were told we would get the singapore of the middle east. Instead what we got is afghanistan and it is a bass was our responsibility as well as hamas. This thing of whining all day about israel is utter nonsense. There is an aggressor here and the aggressor is the palestinians and hamas. We will hit back. ,. , hit back. Live now to ambassador hit back. Live now to ambassador david i hit back. Live now to ambassador david satterfield. Welcome to you. Thank you for being with us here on the bbc. The death toll is rising in israel and the idf is now urging civilians in gaza to evacuate as its military forces target hamas. What are your concerns about the situation . Lets look first at why hamas chose this moment and this particular strategy. Its very clear there were long preparations made by hamas, undoubtedly in communication with iran and hezbolla given the personalities on all sides involved here. What was the purpose . It was severalfold. It was first and foremost to obtain israeli hostages, civilian and military, as many as possible, in Orderfor Hamas to hold them for two reasons. As a shield against a possible Israeli Ground move and secondly, as a means of getting palestinian prisoners out of jail. Boy is this an objective . Why did hamass leaders take this enormous risk of a massive israeli response . They did so because for their part they wanted to demonstrate overwhelmingly to the Palestinian People in the west bank that day, they are the true revolutionary force that serves the interests of the Palestinian People. This is an old hamas motivation but we have to look broadly at the other regional motivations. With a saudi israeli normalisation deal, not done yet but certainly something quite seriously considered, such a deal is a challenge. A challenge for radical terrorist movements such as hamas. A challenge to iran and both parties have every incentive to try to defer it or put it off altogether. If there is a massive Israeli Ground incursion into gaza. That is something which the movement of israeli infantry on the ground tonight would suggest. Then hamass hope is, and this is the bizarre, tragic reality, more palestinian innocents are killed. The better hamass interests are served. Without Escalation Yes but the Escalation Yes but the escalation is almost certainly to be an escalation which targets innocents on all side. I want to touch on some of your point about other players because you were ambassador to lebanon where has hezbolla. Do you think it may use this moment of vulnerability to attack israel and that we risk seeing a situation in which this conflict becomes more widespread . Widespread . No, ithink hezbollas widespread . No, ithink hezbollas engagement | widespread . No, ithink. Hezbollas engagement is widespread . No, ithink hezbollas engagement is of a different character. It is a potential guarantor over israels neck along with yvonne, to ensure if it can that if its actions in hamas in gaza are limited. In other words, hezbolla would not move unilaterally against israel but if there is a massive incursion into gaza, the threat is always there of Hezbolla Rocketing and thatis there of Hezbolla Rocketing and that is something israel would have to take into consideration. , , consideration. Perhaps this is a difficult consideration. Perhaps this is a difficult question consideration. Perhaps this is a difficult question tonight. Consideration. Perhaps this is a difficult question tonight at | a difficult question tonight at this particularjuncture in this particular juncture in light this particularjuncture in light of the fact that we are seeing an unprecedented scale, at least in recent decades, in terms of an attack, but what impact do you think that what we are seeing tonight could have on efforts to normalise relations between israel and the arab world . It relations between israel and the arab world . Relations between israel and the arab world . It is certainly iran, hezbolla the arab world . It is certainly iran, hezbolla and the arab world . It is certainly iran, hezbolla and hamass. Iran, hezbolla and hamass attempt to thwart such a normalisation but i dont think it will work. 0ver Normalisation but i dont think it will work. Over time the generators, the engines that Push Normalisation Forward will continue to operate and one of those engines quite frankly is the threat to all the states in the threat to all the states in the region. Arabs and israel. From iran and from terrorist movements such as hamas. I do movements such as hamas. I do want to ask movements such as hamas. I do want to ask you, movements such as hamas. I do want to ask you, with movements such as hamas. I do want to ask you, with your expertise, what you envisage us Secretary Of State Antony Blinken will be doing tonight . We know he was holding a call with president Magruder Basque but this is about israel and gaza. How can the United States balance its approach and relations whilst giving its traditional support to israel . I think the message under the diplomatic activity and with the biden and Secretary Blinker are engaged during the day to day and probably for the next several days is first to register that the United States unequivocally supports israel. The president could not have made that clearer. He was quite blunt. There is no question here of equivalency or balance as those terms are sometimes used. This is support for an ally against a massive calculated Terrorist Attack against innocent civilians. The other message which they will be passing and working is to try to ensure that all parties with influence in the middle east exercise that influence to ensure that hezbolla and iran behind it do not enter this conflict. That is absolutely critical. , conflict. That is absolutely critical. ,. , critical. Ambassador, former us Assistant Secretary critical. Ambassador, former us Assistant Secretary of critical. Ambassador, former us assistant Secretary Of State, assistant Secretary Of State, we thank you for your analysis. Thank you for taking the time to be with us. Just your thoughts on what the former ambassador had to say. The ambassador also was the head of the Peacekeeping Force which was between egypt and israel, he so he knows the terrain very well and he knows how difficult it will be for the israelis in terms of going into gaza. Right now, they are thinking this was a massive intelligence failure. If they are going in, how difficult is it going to be . The diplomacy right now for the Biden Administration is very delicate because as you said, they are trying to show that traditional support for israel but they also trying to maintain those relations with arab nations who were understandably concerned about what is going to happen. I understand that secretary Antony Blinken just spoke to the Saudi Foreign minister and its an interesting statement that the saudis put out. They said, during the court they discussed elements in the unprecedented situation in gaza and its surroundings. They dont mention israel. And the necessity to work immediately to stop the escalation, stressing the rejection of Targeting Civilians in any way and the need for all parties to respect international law, stressed the need forjoint efforts to calm the situation and avoid more violence. More violence really means what israel is about to do and a Saudi Officialjust said to me, this loss of innocent life is a tragedy and it makes the path to peace all the more critical. It will be key to see what the saudis do right now. They are inching up towards this normalisation with israel. Can they play more of a Peacekeeping Role along with the us . This Peacekeeping Role along with the us . � , Peacekeeping Role along with theus . , the us . As you were speaking, we were seeing the us . As you were speaking, we were seeing more the us . As you were speaking, we were seeing more strikes i the us . As you were speaking, | we were seeing more strikes on gaza with those live pictures. I want to go back to barbara starr, cnns Former Pentagon Correspondent. Barbara, what we have been discussing tonight is that failure of intelligence but conversations tonight will be, if israel decides to go into gaza, from washington, surely questions will be asked about what is your end game here and do you have that reliable intelligence . Well, i thinkthats reliable intelligence . Well, i think thats right. Reliable intelligence . Well, i think thats right. The think thats right. The israelis think thats right. The israelis want a victory in gaza and israelis want a victory in gaza and what israelis want a victory in gaza and what is a victory against a group and what is a victory against a group like and what is a victory against a group like a mask which is so diverse, group like a mask which is so diverse, made up of people with nrany diverse, made up of people with many different personal agendas as well many different personal agendas as well as their affiliation with as well as their affiliation with hamas . This is what insurgent Terrorist Groups are all about insurgent Terrorist Groups are all about and this is what the us learned in both afghanistan and iraq, us learned in both afghanistan and iraq, fighting against isis, and iraq, fighting against isis, fighting against alqaeda. These groups are very disparate alqaeda. These groups are very disparate and a victory is not often disparate and a victory is not often found at the end of a rifle often found at the end of a rifle point. As we have talked about, rifle point. As we have talked about, i rifle point. As we have talked about, i think a lot of very senior about, i think a lot of very senior us about, i think a lot of very senior us people would tell you the hard senior us people would tell you the hard lesson is victory is found the hard lesson is victory is found at the hard lesson is victory is found at the diplomatic table, the table of diplomacy and that is what the table of diplomacy and that is what they will have to do. If is what they will have to do. If the is what they will have to do. If the israelis continue going into if the israelis continue going into gaza and we see huge amounts into gaza and we see huge amounts of attacks in gaza, we have amounts of attacks in gaza, we have seen amounts of attacks in gaza, we have seen that before. We see then have seen that before. We see then typically some condemning of those then typically some condemning of those israeli attacks, some great of those israeli attacks, some great concern obviously about the fate great concern obviously about the fate of civilians in gaza because the fate of civilians in gaza because those people have nowhere to go, they are really at the nowhere to go, they are really at the mercy of everyone. So we will see at the mercy of everyone. So we will see. We will see if the israelis will see. We will see if the israelis are able to achieve what israelis are able to achieve what they believe is a victory against what they believe is a victory against the perpetrators of this, against the perpetrators of this, but i dont know if it changes this, but i dont know if it changes the overall balance, the overall threats against israel the overall threats against israel in the overall threats against israel in the long term without that key israel in the long term without that key diplomacy. That key diplomacy. Barbara starr, thank that key diplomacy. Barbara starr, thank you. That key diplomacy. Barbara starr, thank you. I that key diplomacy. Barbara starr, thank you. I want that key diplomacy. Barbara starr, thank you. I want to i starr, thank you. I want to cross over to our correspondent carl nasman. Us congressional leaders are following this very closely. Bring us up to date with what they are saying. Several lawmakers reacting to the events we have seen unfolding in gaza and in israel. The start off with the Senate Majority leader Chuck Schumer and he says the us stands with israel in its unwavering right to defend itself. The top democrat in the us house of representatives, which of course is a legislative body that is currently hampered by the fact there is no House Speaker, here is whatjefferies is saying, he is whatjefferies is saying, he is saying Congress Must stand with israel until the invasion by hamas is crushed and security in israel has been permanently restored. We have also been hearing from the top two macro candidates who have thrown their hats into the ring to be the next republican Speaker Of The House. Make no mistake the us will always stand with israel, our greatest ally in the middle east. They must defend themselves as their citizens are sorted by hamas terrorists. They have our full support and prayers. Jim jordan, he has also been speaking out. He says it is heartening congress has come together in a bar partizan matter to condemn the attacks. We must continue to support our allies. Asi as i mentioned, there is no us Speaker Of The House right now which means if lawmakers were to feel like they wanted to bring forward a bill that might provide more funding to israel, they wouldnt be able to do that. Kevin mccarthy was ousted by lawmakers on tuesday. They will not be an election for a new House Speaker until wednesday of next until then this is a body that does not have its full powers. Iflarii have its full powers. Carl nasman have its full powers. Carl nasman Reporting Have its full powers. Carl nasman reporting there. Thank you so much. Youre watching rolling coverage of unprecedented attacks by hamas on israel. 0ur coverage does continue at the top of the hour so dojoin us continue at the top of the hour so do join us then continue at the top of the hour so dojoin us then if continue at the top of the hour so do join us then if you continue at the top of the hour so dojoin us then if you can. You can find the latest on our live page. These are live pictures tonight of the situation theyre in gaza. Thank you for your company. I will see you soon. Hello. Rarely do we see a day of weather contrasts quite as stark as those we experienced during saturday. Across many parts of scotland we had huge amounts of rain, flooding and disruption. We had this met Office Amber Warning in force this expiring through the first part of Sunday Morning but this new warning stretching from aberdeenshire up towards inverness, this warning is in force until 2pm on sunday with further flooding and disruption likely. This is the rain we had on saturday. It was relentless. Well over 100 millimetres of rain in places and some spots in the north of scotland only got to 7 or 8 degrees. Compare that with 25 in south east england, those huge contrasts, that, in fact, was the warmest 0ctober day we have seen in five years. Into sunday this frontal system still plaguing parts of scotland with some outbreaks of rain. The focus for the heaviest rain does shift a little further northwards and eastwards. Still though some rain through the central belt, could cause further problems, southern scotland looking drier with a little bit of sunshine. Patchy cloud and sunny spells for northern ireland. Quite murky for some western coasts of england and wales and a bit more cloud for eastern coasts too, but we should, broadly speaking, see some spells of sunshine on what will be another very warm day for the time of year, 25, 26 degrees, not as cold across the north of scotland. Heading through sunday night, we will still see some bits and pieces of rain across scotland, Maybe Fringing Into northern ireland, but generally it will turn a bit drier, quite windy in the far north, very mild as we start monday morning with some areas of low cloud, mist and fog, particularly for western coasts and some of that could linger as we go through the day. Scotland certainly drier than it has been, although this little line of rain could just plague the South West Of Scotland from time to time. Temperatures 13 in stornoway, still 2a in london. Moving deeper into the week, we will see someting of a change, that warmth is set to be swept away. A frontal system pushing its way south and east through the middle of the week, heavy rain with that, and behind it something cooler, something a bit more like we would expect at this time of year. So a mainly dry, warm start to the week but things will change from midweek onwards. Live from washington, this is bbc news. The Israeli Army Warns gaza residents to flee their homes as it prepares to step up strikes on hamas targets in retaliation for deadly militant Rocket Attacks on israel. Dozens of israeli hostages have now reportedly been released, hours after Palestinian Militants launched a Surprise Raid on israel. But the deadly conflict continues to escalate. Im helena humphrey. Glad you could join me. Lets get straight to Breaking News out of israel. The israeli army is warning gaza residents its preparing to step up its retaliation against hamas with fresh strikes on militant targets. Prime minister Benjamin Netanyahu says his Security Cabinet has approved plans to destroy the military and governmental capabilities of hamas and islamichhad. Netanyahu has said israel is at war after a surprise and unprecedented raid by Palestinian Militants on israeli territory early saturday morning. Israels government says hamas launched more than 2000 rockets into the country, killing more than 250 people and wounding over 1100 others. Officials in the gaza strip say over 230 people have been killed and over 1700 were injured in retaliatory strikes. The Un Security Council plans to meet about the violence in the region tomorrow