A day of Significant Developments in gaza. According to hamas two more hostages have been released due to poor health. Its believed they are two elderly israeli women. Meanwhile, israels intense air strikes on gaza have been continuing. Take a look at these pictures, the aftermath. Most strikes in the north, but some in the south as well stop some are reportedly moving back to the north of gaza because of the desperate conditions in the south. This brings us to the issue of aid. 20 trucks across the borders, hundreds a day are needed, according to the un. Still no fuel crossing, fuel which is needed for hospitals, and things like water sites. Israel says it could be taken by hamas, so none so far. Ibrahim jalal is nonresident scholar with the Middle East Institute a nonprofit, nonpartisan think tank hejoins me now from vienna. Thank you very much for coming on The Programme. Thank you very much for coming on The Programme thank you very much for coming on The Programme. Thank you for having me. Can i The Programme. Thank you for having me can i get The Programme. Thank you for having me can i get your The Programme. Thank you for having me. Can i get your reaction The Programme. Thank you for having me. Can i get your reaction to The Programme. Thank you for having me. Can i get your reaction to this me. Can i get your reaction to this news coming me. Can i get your reaction to this news coming to me. Can i get your reaction to this news coming to us me. Can i get your reaction to this news coming to us from me. Can i get your reaction to this news coming to us from reuters l me. Can i get your reaction to this news coming to us from Reuters News Agency from a hamas spokesperson, two more hostages being released according to them. What is your reaction to that . The according to them. What is your reaction to that . Reaction to that . The release of more hostages reaction to that . The release of more hostages across reaction to that . The release of more hostages across sites reaction to that . The release of more hostages across sites is l reaction to that . The release of| more hostages across sites is an important humanitarian step. A clear distinction between civilians and combatants is necessary in this equation. At the moment, you obviously have mediation involved, a white age of other regional actors such as turkey and egypt, and it remains to be seen how far this will progress as the Ground Offensive remains under concentration. fin progress as the Ground Offensive remains under concentration. On the round remains under concentration. On the Ground Offensive, remains under concentration. On the Ground Offensive, it remains under concentration. On the Ground Offensive, it has remains under concentration. On the Ground Offensive, it has been remains under concentration. On the Ground Offensive, it has been talked| Ground Offensive, it has been talked about a much anticipated, but hasnt yet happened. There are reports in us media say that the Biden Administration is asking israel to delay any such move like that, precisely to get more time to deal with this hostage issue. Does that ring true to you . With this hostage issue. Does that ring true to you . Yeah, the Ground Offensive is ring true to you . Yeah, the Ground Offensive is very ring true to you . Yeah, the Ground Offensive is very costly ring true to you . Yeah, the Ground Offensive is very costly in ring true to you . Yeah, the Ground Offensive is very costly in terms ring true to you . Yeah, the Ground Offensive is very costly in terms of| offensive is very costly in terms of infrastructure and in terms of anticipated death toll, but also the deterioration of the already dire humanitarian landscape in gaza. We have had only 3a trucks entering gaza over the past two days, which remains below the minimum threshold required to support over a million gazans with required food and medical support. The assessment regarding the Ground Offensive remains largely unchanged, it is maybe a question of time. But, if that cannot only be delayed but also cancelled, and we havent said a ceasefire, that might be a more Human Scenario for all of those engaged, mostly civilians affected by the ongoing scale of violence, including Indiscriminate Bombardment, lack of respect for International Law of conflict, obviously. International law of conflict, obviously International Law of conflict, obviousl. , obviously. Israel, of course, will sa the obviously. Israel, of course, will say they are obviously. Israel, of course, will say they are pinpointing obviously. Israel, of course, will say they are pinpointing specific| say they are pinpointing specific hamas targets, not indiscriminate. I want to ask you, lets go south to the rafah border, we are seeing pictures of aid. The numbers are quite stark. We have 50 or so aid trucks over the last couple of days, hundreds or so needed. Given your assessment of where we are right now, can you see the number of tracks getting up to anywhere near what is required . What is required . Well, if there is a moral obligation what is required . Well, if there is a moral obligation to what is required . Well, if there is a moral obligation to support a moral obligation to support civilians and address the deteriorating humanitarian needs, there is a straightforward path away. Let all of this flow is negotiations on hostages continue. But also, there is acquired International Support, mainly by the united states, the united kingdom, and the European Union to put their hands in with the egyptians and stakeholders to push this forward. There is no other way around. 0f there is no other way around. Of course, food and goods and medics will not save the people of gaza as this Indiscriminate Bombardment continues. If there is a political wealth, i think there is a way to increase that significantly into more than a human level. Thank you ve much more than a human level. Thank you very much for more than a human level. Thank you very much for your more than a human level. Thank you very much for your perspective. We can get a unique perspective on that hamas claimed that two more hostages have been released. Paul martin in 2010 was taken by hamas in gaza, and is now the editor in chief of the online publication correspondent. World. Cani can i get your view on the two americans being released . The fact we have had americans being released . The fact we have had to americans being released . The fact we have had to before, americans being released . The fact we have had to before, and americans being released . The fact we have had to before, and it americans being released . The fact| we have had to before, and it seems now to be a trend developing, to release hostages, it has obviously been negotiated through qatar. Qatar has always been at the centre of hostage negotiations, even during the era of isis. I met one of the hostages that have been released when he was held by isis for more than a year, and on that occasion, interestingly enough, qatar had donated or given 8 million, according to the hostage was released, 8 million handed over via various intermediaries to isis. I dont this is a financial transaction that is going on, it is honestly a strategic one, and qatar likes to be at the centre of these negotiations. It also has the advantage of having the headquarters of hamas, and a leader and Deputy Leader of hamas all in qatar at the moment. ,. ,. ,~ leader of hamas all in qatar at the moment. ,. N ,. , moment. Interesting. Can i ask you about your moment. Interesting. Can i ask you about your experience. Moment. Interesting. Can i ask you about your experience. Tell moment. Interesting. Can i ask you about your experience. Tell us about your experience. Tell us briefly what happened. My situation was rather different briefly what happened. My situation was rather different to briefly what happened. My situation was rather different to the briefly what happened. My situation was rather different to the current l was rather different to the current captives, because i was a Foreign Correspondent making a film about a young man who had stopped Firing Rockets into israeli civilian areas, felt this was wrong, because he had become friendly on the internet with an israeli, they started to become friends. He didnt feel he was doing the right thing. So, he stopped, which is a very dangerous thing to do, because it contradicts the entire line of hamas all along that israelis are not to be spoken to, it is a traitorous thing to do. So, he was arrested, put in jail, tortured and put on trial, a military trial. I decided it was my responsibility at least to tell that Military Court that this man was making a film, hardly likely to be the thing that establishes him as a spy, what he would be accused of. When i got there to give evidence, having written in advance and having been there many times before, ifind myself arrested and accused of being his spy master, which is very dangerous, and im sad and very difficult conditions for 26 days. Is a difficult conditions, i dont know how much you want to talk about them, but if you can at all, can elaborate slightly . The them, but if you can at all, can elaborate slightly . Them, but if you can at all, can elaborate slightly . The first night a man walked elaborate slightly . The first night a man walked into elaborate slightly . The first night a man walked into myself elaborate slightly . The first night a man walked into myself where l elaborate slightly . The first night a man walked into myself where i elaborate slightly . The first night a man walked into myself where i was handcuffed and put a gun, picked up a kalashnikov, put six bullets into the magazine, and started to point the magazine, and started to point the gun in my head, for example. As he got closer, he started to squeeze the trigger. I thought that was the end. It turned out, after 30 seconds, he held the trigger only half way. He laughed, pointed the gun in the sky, and smashed the barrel on my knee, which relatively was a good outcome. That was the first in my 26 days. I had a couple of occasions where i thought i was seconds away from death, but during that entire period, they tried to make me sign confessions of being a spy make me sign confessions of being a spy, which was totally ludicrous. I refuse to do so, but i wasnt sure if i would receive the same sort of treatment as most of the people in the prison around may, who had been seriously tortured. I presume i would have signed anything at some point. Fortunately, they seem to have had orders not to torture me, except put me in extremely difficult psychological positions and total isolation, and eventually i was freed largely, i think, thanks to intervention from people like Archbishop Desmond tutu, with whom i had fought an anti apartheid battle against the regime in south africa, where i grew up. I had some International Support, and some support from the british government. In the end i was released, not quite the same situation as these current hostages, over200, the same situation as these current hostages, over 200, are still there, men, women and children. That hostages, over 200, are still there, men, women and children. Hostages, over 200, are still there, men, women and children. That is an extraordinary. Men, women and children. That is an extraordinary, extraordinary men, women and children. That is an extraordinary, extraordinary story. I extraordinary, extraordinary story. Thank you very much for sharing it with us. I want to ask, of course you are repeatedly highlighting the situation is a very different, and i appreciate you underlining that. One thing i want to ask you, though, is about the idea of israel trying to discover things like the locations of where these hostages are being held and attempts to free them. Given your knowledge, how challenging is that . It is extremely challenging. Challenging is that . It is extremely challenging, because challenging is that . It is extremely challenging, because i challenging is that . It is extremely challenging, because i do challenging is that . It is extremely challenging, because i do not challenging, because i do not believe that they will be in the same place that i was in. For one thing, i went back to gaza, they apologised to me in effect, and allowed me back for a couple of days to report from gaza in 2014, and they showed me the place i had been held, and it has been destroyed by the israelis in the previous clash. They would have to have rebuilt, if it is in the same place. It was opposite the National Security headquarters. There are so many locations they could be hiding people, and for example, the israeli soldier that had been held completely separately from meat, and i never saw him during my captivity, he was held in khan younis, which is in the south, and a totally different situation, and he was eventually swapped for over 1000 hamas prisoners. That is what the israelis are trying to avoid. They do not, i am absolutely certain, want to get into a situation where they are bargaining some hostages, most of them civilians, for prisoners who they have arrested and charged and convicted for what they consider to be terrorist crimes. I think the israelis are trying to avoid that, at all costs. That begs the question, what is the deal . The answer is, i dont know. Unfortunately was the leave it there, but paul martin, thank you very much for sharing your extraordinary story and your analysis of what is going on. Pleasure. Just to remind you about why we are talking about this particular issue, it is because in the last hour or so hamas have claimed on social media that they have released two female captives for humanitarian reasons, in a response to qatar egypt mediation. We decided to release them for humanitarian and poor health grounds. We understand from Reuters News Agency they are two older women, Reuters News Agency they are two olderwomen, both Reuters News Agency they are two older women, both israeli. We are waiting for an independent verification of any of those details. Around the world and across the uk, this is bbc news. Lets look at some other stories making news. Ministers have set out plans to tackle the rise in shoplifting, after official figures showed a 25 annual increase in offences in england and wales. The proposals include a Police Commitment to attend crime scenes, pursue more evidence and use facial recognition to target prolific offenders. A man has been arrested in connection with a huge fire that caused the partial collapse of a Multi Storey Car Park at Luton Airport this month. Bedfordshire police said the 30 year old was detained on suspicion of criminal damage as a precautionary measure, and that investigations had so far suggested the fire was started accidentally. Hes since been released on bail. A charity that helps victims of modern slavery says its received a steep rise in the number of calls for help from Foreign Workers in the care sector. Unseen uk says many reported paying large sums of money to the people whod brought them to the uk and that in some cases their passports had been taken. Youre live with bbc news. As we have been reporting two further hostages have reportedly been released this evening, according to hamas. We have not at the moment received any independent verification on that. These details and come through in the last hour, 90 minutes or so. Lets talk now to someone with extensive experience in trying to negotiate for the release of hostages from gaza. 0liver Mcternan is co founder of the conflict mediation group, forward thinking. Thank you very much for coming on The Programme. Thank you very much for coming on The ProgrammeThe Programme. Thank you for the invitation. Since The Programme. Thank you for the invitation. Since we The Programme. Thank you for the invitation. Since we invited The Programme. Thank you for the invitation. Since we invited you, i invitation. Since we invited you, this developing invitation. Since we invited you, this developing news invitation. Since we invited you, this developing news in invitation. Since we invited you, this developing news in the invitation. Since we invited you, this developing news in the last| invitation. Since we invited you, i this developing news in the last 90 minutes, as i mentioned, to more hostages released according to hamas. We await independent verification of that, but whilst we do, what is your reaction . I think it is a good do, what is your reaction . I think it is a good sign. Do, what is your reaction . I think it is a good sign. It do, what is your reaction . I think it is a good sign. It is do, what is your reaction . I think it is a good sign. It is exactly do, what is your reaction . I think it is a good sign. It is exactly a i it is a good sign. It is exactly a week ago today that i was in doha, and i conveyed through channels the desire to release all of the civilian hostages, without any preconditions. Hopefully, this could be the beginning, and it takes two to tango as they say, if i can put it that way. Without the willingness on both sides to secure the safe passage of all the civilian hostages, i think people will be in danger. Hostages, i think people will be in dancer. , hostages, i think people will be in dancer. ,. ,~ hostages, i think people will be in dancer. , hostages, i think people will be in dancer. , danger. Can you take us, as it were, into the room danger. Can you take us, as it were, into the room where danger. Can you take us, as it were, into the room where it danger. Can you take us, as it were, into the room where it is danger. Can you take us, as it were, | into the room where it is happening, behind the curtain . What we have received from the social media account, the hamas statement, they talk about qatar, egypt, mediation. What does that mean, whats going on . It what does that mean, whats going on . , what does that mean, whats going on . , , what does that mean, whats going on . , what does that mean, whats going on . , on . It means messages are passed. There is never on . It means messages are passed. There is never done on . It means messages are passed. There is never done direct there is never done direct engagement between israeli officials and hamas officials, they always use intermediaries to pass messages. It is a long term, usually long term, because usually there is quid pro quo, what do we get for this, who do we get . And so forth. In this particular case, i understand, the operatives that went into israel, committed the atrocities, and indiscriminately they took the civilians, and they made a mistake. The way i would see it is that hamas are keen to hand back all the civilian hostages now. I stress civilian hostages now. I stress civilian as opposed to the military. That is an important distinction. You mention quid pro quo, would it be your understanding that it would be your understanding that it would be for people released if we do get confirmation of the latest two, that there will be something in place then, and what would that be . The fact that they then, and what would that be . Tue fact that they were then, and what would that be . Tta fact that they were civilians, then, and what would that be . Tt2 fact that they were civilians, there was to be no conditions. They were to be handed back as soon as conditions allowed for the safety, because you wouldnt keep 200, it wont be 200, you wouldnt keep them all in the same place. It was a question of how do you move such numbers around gaza . To release than to buy two, i would hope not. I would hope we could have a ceasefire and have conditions in which a process of exchange could take place, and i would say that should take place in these circumstances without any conditions. Interesting. You have made without any conditions. Interesting. You have made the without any conditions. Interesting. You have made the distinction, you have made the distinction, civilian and not. What, therefore, is the process and protocol around non civilian hostages . The is the process and protocol around noncivilian hostages . The practice of takinr noncivilian hostages . The practice of taking soldiers, noncivilian hostages . The practice of taking soldiers, and noncivilian hostages . The practice of taking soldiers, and im of taking soldiers, and im explaining it not endorsing it, not justifying it, but the practice of capturing Israeli Soldiers was simply to use those young people as leverage to release palestinian prisoners from israeli jails. Currently, before this outbreak, this cycle of violence you might say, the renewal of the cycle, there were about 4000 palestinian prisoners in israeli jails. Some of those were convicted, some of them were on detention without trial. The capture of a soldier was a precious commodity, if i can put it that way, a Bargaining Chip in which you would get these cases reviewed. I think the answer to it for me would have been for israel after the deal to introduce a reviewed system of all cases, and have an independent review of all the convicted palestinian prisoners in israeli jails so that there could be some hope of people being released. At present, there is no hope for any of them. ~ ,. , present, there is no hope for any of them. ~ ,. ,. , them. Absolutely fascinating to get our them. Absolutely fascinating to get your behindthescenes them. Absolutely fascinating to get your behindthescenes expertise, j your behind the scenes expertise, thank you very much for coming on The Programme. Thank you very much for coming on The Programme thank you very much for coming on The Programme. Thank you, and lets hoe The Programme. Thank you, and lets ho e the The Programme. Thank you, and lets hope the news The Programme. Thank you, and lets hope the news tonight The Programme. Thank you, and lets hope the news tonight is The Programme. Thank you, and lets hope the news tonight is the hope the news tonight is the beginning of something that will be ongoing, and all of those hostages will be returned to their families. Thank you. Ijust want i just want to bring you ijust want to bring you an update to this. In the last few minutes, cbs news, the bbc� s media partner in the united states, they are now reporting the two hostages are being released by hamas, and an Israeli Government official has confirmed to cbs news the names of the two as well. Just. Just outline how the process of confirmation works, we had initially the statement on social media from hamas through hamas media channels, which you then take and clearly investigate, we do not take it on its own. The way that the organisations work around the world, and the bbc included is that you have partnerships with other media organisations. I was in the us is cbs news, and they have spoken to an Israeli Government official s in the us. They have spoken and confirmed the names of the hostages with an israeli official. In terms of this how this plays out last week when we had the first two hostages released, after the cbs confirmation, the bbc did confirm a short time after that too. Lets have a look at another post that has just come up on social media. You can see this as from the icrc and see what they are saying about it. We facilitate the release of two more hostages, transporting them out of gaza this evening. 0ur role, as a neutral intermediary, it makes this work possible and we are ready to facilitate any further release. We hope they will soon be back with their loved ones. To reiterate, what happened last time, last week with the two hostages was a similar process. It wasnt until they were confirmed Safe On Israeli Territory that we then heard from officials and authorities in israel confirming things like name and status of the two hostages, so we will wait and see when that happens, but clearly more confirmation coming through that to israeli hostages have been released by hamas. We will keep across all those details for you, and when the bbc establish our own independent verification will bring you that as well. We are going to look at the issue of aid, the crucial amount needs to get through into gaza over the southern border. Just about 50 trucks over the last few days have passed across that border. For context, gals are used to receive 400 to 500 trucks of supplies every day. The numbers are clearly very, very different. 0ne Urgent Need is fuel, expected to run out into days, but that is not crossing the border as yet. Save the children is among the charity is calling desperately for International Support and a ceasefire. Alison griffin is head of humanitarian campaigns at Save The Children uk. Thank you very much for coming on The Programme. What have you been able to establish about the level, basically the number of trucks able to get into gaza . This basically the number of trucks able to get into gaza . Basically the number of trucks able to get into gaza . As you say, it has been a trickle to get into gaza . As you say, it has been a trickle of to get into gaza . As you say, it has been a trickle of trucks. To get into gaza . As you say, it has been a trickle of trucks. It to get into gaza . As you say, it has been a trickle of trucks. It is to get into gaza . As you say, it has been a trickle of trucks. It is the i been a trickle of trucks. It is the first positive step. We have seen 20 on friday, 14 yesterday, but on average before this recent escalation of an average of 400 trucks per day. Before this escalation, that is now a backlog of 8000 trucks. 20 does not really touch the side of humanitarian need to. This includes drinking water, medical supplies, to. This includes drinking water, medicalsupplies, hygiene to. This includes drinking water, medical supplies, hygiene kits, to. This includes drinking water, medicalsupplies, hygiene kits, baby kits, nappies, kits forwomen, medicalsupplies, kits, nappies, kits forwomen, medical supplies, and vitally important things. We are hearing from our staff on the ground that life in gaza right now is unimaginable, and yet we can see it happening before our eyes. One child is being killed every 15 minutes. People are dying every day. People are making tents out of blankets, families are sheltering in warehouses where there is one toilet to around a thousand people. 0bviously, clean water is an issue. We see the Desalination Plant has no power, so people are literally having to drink sea water, which in turn is likely to trigger deadly outbreaks of waterborne diseases, cholera. We can see catastrophic impacts for months to come. Tm impacts for months to come. Im sor to impacts for months to come. Im sorry to have impacts for months to come. Im sorry to have to impacts for months to come. Im sorry to have to interrupt, cut our conversation short, we are right up against the end, we are out of time, thank you for coming on The Programme. Im lewis vaughanjones, this bbc news. Hello there. Well, after last weeks significant stormy spell of weather, this morning was quite a refreshing change chilly but dry, with some sunshine. And into the afternoon, just take a look at Highland Scotland absolutely glorious. We did have some rain, however it was mostly down to the southwest, in particular through the isles of scilly. In the first six hours this morning, we sawjust shy of two inches of rain. So some threatening looking skies at times across cornwall. And theres more rain to come, im afraid, in the weather story as we go through the week ahead. In fact, we could see more significant rain arriving overnight tonight into the south east and across Eastern England areas where we dont need any more significant rain moving across east anglia, lincolnshire into the East Midlands, and across to parts of south yorkshire. It itll be accompanied eventually by another spell of wet weather moving through the west midlands. Now, with the cloud and the rain around, those temperatures are going to hold up. So it wont be as chilly a start, but yes, it will be wet for some, particularly across parts of lincolnshire, the East Midlands and into northern england, south yorkshire. So the rain, fairly showery in nature, but we dont need any more significant rain in these areas. So there is a Weather Warning in force here, there is a potential again for some further localised flooding. To the south of that, sunny spells and scattered showers. To the north of that, once again, not a bad day for much of scotland and the far north of england, 11 12 celsius the high. Further south, were looking at top temperatures of 15 16 celsius. Eventually, that rain will ease away, another little ridge of High Pressure keeps things quiet. And a cooler start first thing on wednesday morning, but its not expected to last, as this low will push in further outbreaks of heavy rain and strong winds at times. And easterly Wind Mightjust drive in a few showers across the east coast of scotland, sheltered Western Areas staying dry. England and wales seeing some sunshine for the bulk of the day before clouding over towards the southwest. So, that will bring some rain into northern ireland, eventually into southwest england and wales. It spills its way steadily north and east, and then, we come under that influence of low pressure. The isobars squeeze together for the end of the week thatll be piling in plenty of showers or longer spells of rain at times. Not quite as bad as we had last week, but nevertheless, that unsettled spell of weather set to continue. Hello, im lewis vaughanjones. Youre watching the context on bbc news. According to hamas, two more hostages have been released due to poor health, and the un say 20 more aid trucks have been allowed to cross into gaza. Sport and for a full round up, from the bbc sport centre, heres tulsen. Thank you very much indeed. Lets start with football, shall be . Tottenham and fulham are heading towards half time in north london, with a victory for spurs knowing theyd return to the top of the table. Currently goalless with 29 minutes played. A win for fulham, who knocked spurs out of the league cup earlier in the campaign, would take them above chelsea and into the top half of the table. For more, head to the bbc sport website. There will be a minute silence prior to Manchester UnitedsChampions League game with copenhagen tomorrow night. Players will also wear black armbands, as tributes continue to pour in from the world of football, following the passing of sir Bobby Charlton on saturday. Eric ten hag has been speaking today ahead of that game, and say� s charltons legacy will live on. Bobby was a legend, a giant. Not only for manchester united, but for football. And so his legacy was also what he left with the standards, the high standards we have to live every day. Afghanistan have caused another big upset at the Cricket World Cup this time, beating pakistan