Lets go and take a look at whats on the show. Translation we should support farmers, because without them, l we have no food. Without them, well have nothing. The worlds failing food system with farmers struggling to make a living, can they keep producing the food we all need . Farmers Around The World from europe and australia to mexico and india theyve been taking to the streets as their financial pressures grow. So, what does it all mean for one of the worlds most Important Industries . Im going to be discussing all of that with these two there they are the Big Boss Of The World Farmers organisation, who tells me hes worried about the industrys future and how its going to feed ten billion mouths in the next 25 years. And this man, who was part of a team buying from farmers for one of the worlds biggest retailers, who tells us how Supermarket Pressures for profits puts the squeeze on hard pressed farmers. Also on the show, what do the white house, rafael nadal and Rolling Stone magazine have in common . Well, their websites theyre all powered by word press. So i decided to catch up with the big boss of the Free Software giant that powers huge amounts of the world wide web. Wherever yourejoining me from Around The World, once again, a big hello and a warm welcome to the show. You know, it seems not a week goes by without farmers somewhere taking to the streets, complaining about the difficulties of making ends meet. Its an industry thats crucial to economies everywhere as well as global trade and, of course, an industry thats fundamental to human survival. Problems ranging from cheap imports to strict rules about the environment and animal welfare, as well as those powerful supermarkets, it all means that farmers have been protesting across the globe, from europe, the uk and india, forcing politicians to listen. The farming industrys also having growing political influence in places including the us and new zealand, as an unprecedented number of countries hold elections this year. Theres also the impact of geopolitics because, in particular, the war in ukraine has made many long standing problems worse. Along with russia, it was one of the Worlds Largest food exporters. And all of these challenges mean that farmers Around The World, theyre just struggling like never before. Lets take a listen. Translation the prices in the shops continue to remain high. Oils expensive, breads expensive, milk, cheese, everything. Prices are high. Whilst for us farmers, everything falls and collapses. Its absurd that we sell milk for 50 cents and large retailers sell it for 2 euros, just for bottling it. We want fair prices. Were selling at a loss. Currently in france, on the markets, we import more than half of our fruit and vegetables. Well, obviously, i cant compete with that. I have the right to earn my living, but i will never be able to produce at the price of morocco. One family farm after another are closing down because they simply realise that they are overburdened and can no longer cope with this price pressure. Its impossible to work with these rules. They want us to work on the field during the day and deal with paperwork at night. Were sick of the bureaucracy. If we dont get the minimum support price, then either we die here facing bullets or well die back home, due to poverty. I have to provide my children access to education. Its very difficult to make ends meet. Were demanding fair crop prices. So, a lot of things go into deciding the price we pay forfood, which often passes through traders and wholesalers before it gets to our plates. To get an indication of what farmers earn, heres the United Nations index of food prices, which uses export values, and it shows how prices peaked during the ukraine war, but have fallen sharply since. Worldwide, those incomes are supported by 540 billion a year of subsidies from governments who are trying to secure Food Supplies for their populations. Despite that, the un says between 691 and 783 Million People faced hunger in 2022 in large part, because food was just too expensive. But at the same time, more than one billion people are obese. You take that together, and that points towards a global food system thats broken. With the worlds population growing, but the amount of land to farm remaining unchanged, farmers, they should, in theory, be able to push up prices as demand soars, but they often have more to think about than just growing food. So, i decided to catch up with one man who knows all about that. Hes the Big Boss Of The World Farmers organisation. Dr andrea porro, a real pleasure having you on the show. And, andrea, let me start with this, because one thing that seems to tie together the farmers protesting in europe and india is a worry that theyjust cant make a living from farming. So, many people would be wondering, why is that so difficult to do . Well, thank you for this question. Whether we are primarily Food Consumer or food producer, taxpayer or policymaker, we all have a stake in an agriculture that should be more economically, environmentally and socially sustainable for the stability of the planet. But when it comes to implementing change, a lot is currently expected of one group in the system, which is the farmers. In reality, farmers are already hard pressed to make a living in a world where Market Prices are volatile, Weather Patterns are changing faster than the ability to adapt, and pests and diseases may wipe out the work of a season. There is no room to go green while in the red. Long term sustainable practice needs to be profitable from a Farming Business Perspective before a farmer can commit to them. And, andrea, back in 2021, a United Nations report, it found that the world was providing farmers with just over half a trillion dollars in subsidies. I mean, thats taxpayer support. And im kind of wondering, if farmers need that level of support, does that tell you that the global food system is broken . Well, you are touching the very heart of the question. If we look at the number in subsidies, the amount seems staggering and mind blowing. I think that the first consideration is that the farmer Business Needs to be subsidised because their income is not viable as per today. But if we break down a bit more the subsidies, it becomes more and more evident that to Family Farmers and that means the majority of farmers these subsidies are not reaching them. They might end up in a large Agribusiness Group which, by their own size or by their capacity to influence lawmakers, are capturing the subsidies, prevented to reach the one that might benefit the most. But, andrea, as the Big Boss Of The World Farmers organisation, ive got to ask you, do you think that the food system is broken . Well, the global food system is not broken, its just unbalanced in the role of distribution of power among the value chain. We think that investment in the form of subsidies should always be coupled also on a Broader Vision of infrastructure development, or increase the transparency or unpredictability of the agriculture markets, ensure that farmers benefit fairly from the opening of the market. And, andrea, research out of the netherlands, it shows how its 65,000 farmers, for them to reach nearly 17 million consumers, how they have to go through just five, five companies, who buy all the food for supermarkets. So, it does beg the question, do supermarkets just have too much power to push down the Prices Farmers get for their products . That is rather true. I mean, what you are describing is the reality that not only netherlands farmers, farmers in holland, farmers along the entire different value chain across the world are today faced with a concentration of few actors in the value chain that have the capability to dictate the price. Changing that seems an insurmountable challenge. In reality, we strongly think that strengthening the representation role of Farmers Organisations can help farmers to rebalance their role and negotiation capacity along the value chain. And, andrea, this year, more people are voting in elections than ever before in a single year. And farmers and their problems, theyre having this growing influence everywhere from the us to new zealand to india. Why do you think thats so . So, there is an interesting situation in which farmers issues, farmers demands has become mainstream, due to a protest that was deriving from different and maybe issues that were not affecting the broader public but, yet, some of their impact was rather clear. The increasing cost of imports that farmers have found themselves facing worldwide in the recent year somehow has been felt also by a broader public that is not related to Farming Systems or they are not deriving their income from Farming Systems but, yet, they are consumers as well. And theyve seen a spike in the price of food, commodities and products Around The World, and sometimes, with little explanation of why so. Hence, i have a feeling that all this buzzing Around The World on this situation has increased the attention both of media and the general public and, hence, then politics and politicians around what is happening to the farming system. I mean, it is no minor feat that more and more, we are hearing about terms like food sovereignty, an in and out conversation of Food Security since a long time. But post ukraine situation, post the spike up increase of imports such as fertiliser and oil and gas, more and more, this issue is becoming of a concern for everyone. One trend, andrea, that weve seen across the United States and europe seems to be following is the growth of these huge farms. Numbers from the eu actually show that smaller farms are less profitable, suggesting that farming is really only profitable on a huge scale. And thats pushing many smaller farmers out of business. Does that matter, andrea . And if so, why . Yes, there is a concern of not merely the concentration of land in larger farms. There is a challenge of farmers exiting a business, and that will be a haemorrhagic event that, in any other sector, would be a matter of concern. In Farming Systems, it seems that these are dismissed only because less viable, profitable businesses going out of production, and then the land is then concentrating ina largergroup. But again, i would stress that this diversification of farmers size and farming typology is our Insurance Policy. Our concern is that our Insurance Policy of this diverse system is shrinking. So, the smaller the portfolio, the less diverse the portfolio, the more risk we are taking. How are we farmers risk averse . Probably a bit. But in that stability, there is also the stability of the food system, but i would still prefer to have more options, rather than less options. And, andrea, let me end on this, because by 2050, its expected were going to have nearly ten billion mouths to feed on the planet. Do you worry, andrea, that we just wont be able to feed them all . I am a little worried, not in terms of the possibility to feed the ten billion people, but if we are not tackling the heart of the question, which is, is farming a profitable activity, is it a sustainable activity in terms of economically, environmentally and social activity . Are we also facing the main issue of food loss and wastage . That is also a key point, in which farmers have something to say, being at the centre of some solution and innovation, but also, consumer and law makers and all the actors that i named during your other question that are holding a lot of power and influence along the value chain. Those are the ones that, all together, can help to tackle the issue of an increasing population and how we are going to answer their demand, in terms of food. Well, on that point, dr andrea porro, the secretary general of the world farmers organisation, thanks very much for your time. Really appreciate it. And well talk to you soon. Thank you very much. Its been a pleasure and an honour to be here with you today. Till the next time well, for millions of us in europe, the us and the rest of the developed world, we buy a lot of our food from supermarkets, and their role in buying huge quantities of fruit and vegetable, meat and other produce from farmers means they are often in a very powerful position when it comes to the finances of food. So ive been catching up with one former senior buyer for the uk supermarket giant asda which, at the time, was owned by the Worlds Largest retailer, walmart. Ged futter, really appreciate your time. And, ged, let me start with this, just explain how important supermarkets are in many countries, perhaps in europe, in particular, in getting food everything from beef to bread and cheese from those farms to the rest of us . Well, its one of these things, because supermarkets, they get a bad press, and they have done for a long time. But i wrote a report for the oxford Farmers Conference last year, and i spoke with about a0 different people from the sector. And what i kept hearing is just how important supermarkets are. They are the best way to get food out to the mass market. So. And thats where we are. So every country now has moved into a model where customers buy their food from supermarkets. And the genies out of the bottle. So, were not going to go back to any different method. So, that way of getting your food is the best way for customers to buy it easily, and thats what theyre looking for. And, ged, what weve seen over the last few years in particular, since russias invasion of ukraine is food prices in shops Around The World, theyve been rising. But despite that, farmers are complaining in many places that theyre just not getting enough for what they produce. And it leaves people to wonder, how can that be . With the war in ukraine, weve seen real inflation turbo charged. Now, dont forget, before the war happened, inflation, particularly in the uk, was on its rise anyway. So, the rise of Food Inflation was already happening. But what we have seen is, i mean, in the uk, we saw Food Inflation peak at around about 20 , but thats not all the costs. So the farmers certainly, the farmers, the growers that ive spoken to their costs, generally, theyve risen by 30 plus. So when you talk about feed, fertiliser, fuel, theyre the main areas and farmers have got, on average, about 8 from their customers, from the retailers. So there is a real disconnect between what the costs in the industry have had and what many of them have received. And what needs to change if there is to be a fall in food prices to help consumers . Well, part of it is keeping the food prices down, but also, theres the reality actually of the cost. Food is expensive to produce. In every part of the world, the costs of producing food have gone up. Are we going to see food prices go back to where they were . Were never going to see that again. The retailers in every country, the margins that they make, the percentage margin is actually relatively low. So you look generally, 4 5 is a high amount. Further down the food supply chain, i 2 is actually the reality for many farmers and growers. And some of them, theyre making losses. So, were not going to see food prices come down because the costs in the sector, theyre just not coming down. But surely, ged, thats just not sustainable forfarmers, right . Its not sustainable. And what were seeing is actually seeing farmers leaving the sector. So weve seen. Certainly, in europe, weve seen all the different farmers coming out on the streets. So what were seeing, actually, is the impact globally in different sectors are farmers are having to make very difficult choices. So weve seen farmers in australia that actually are choosing now not to work with australian supermarkets. What theyre looking at is theyre looking at, what well do is well export. So theyre looking at other different markets. And one of the things that you have to think about and, certainly as a buyer, what i always knew was you have to have alternatives. In the drive for lower prices for consumers, we often hear farmers complaining that theyjust have little choice but to sell their produce to big supermarkets for a loss. Surely thatjust, i dont know, pushes farmers out of business, doesnt it . I think thats a very simplistic way to look at it, because what you do have in some of the sectors, actually, is the retailers in every part of the world, they are very well trained. Theyre particularly well trained on things like sourcing and negotiation. Now, if youre not trained to the same level that they are, sometimes, is it a surprise that, actually, that they do better in negotiation . And, actually, what they need to see is each different farmer, growersay, well, what are my options . Who else can i work with . So, i was up at the nfu scotland annual conference. One of the things i spoke to farmers up in scotland about is theyve got a huge opportunity. And i think theyve got an opportunity to actually export, so reduce the reliance on the supermarkets and look for other alternatives. And thats what you will see because, actually, globally, there is always going to be that need for food. And, ged, let me end on this, because im just kind of wondering, is it fair to say that negotiating with buyers is perhaps a weak spot forfarmers . Again, im kind of wondering, is there perhaps a collective body that they can turn to, in order to negotiate better prices . Well, that is what you see more of in sort of european countries. So, you do see more Collective Bargaining Taking Place in europe. And youve also got farmers, sometimes, farmers will undercut each other by a penny. So if youve got oversupply and a farmer or grower undercutting, then that means that, actually, the buyers, theyve got it easy, and thats the reality. So, there does need to be sometimes a think about the more collective, particularly in the uk, how are we going to work Better Together to work and get the prices that we need to be sustainable . Well, on that point, ged futter, a real pleasure having you on the show. Thanks for your time, and well talk to you again soon. Thanks again. Ok, heres a question for you. What do the white house, the tennis superstar rafael nadal and Rolling Stone magazine have in common . Well, the answer, they all have websites that are powered by a piece of software called wordpress. Now, although many of us may have never heard of it, it does play a crucial role in making the internet work. The software, its free to use, and i tell you what, it is used. Its used by more than 800 million websites. So, i decided to catch up with its big boss. Nick gernert, a real pleasure having you on the show. And, nick, ive got to ask you this to start with, because there are surveys out there that show your software is used by more than 40 of the worlds websites. Is it only so popular because its free . Oh, gosh. I mean, free is a good price, right . So, like, you know, starting from there, thats, you know, thats one way to look at it. But, no, i mean, ithink, like, theres some things about this that have made it ubiquitous on the web, essentially. Its simple. Its something that anyone could show to just about anyone in theirfamily. And it would make Something Like the web, which was typically reserved for you had to be more technical, you had to understand the nuances of how websites were built and then, you know, and really opened that up to the masses. That was the whole idea the whole time, was, like, how do you take something thats reserved for a select few and actually open that up to a much broader audience . And, nick, ive got to ask you, just for the uninitiated, for the non techie people like myself, what does your Software Actually do . How does it work . We want you to not even really have to think about how the software works. It gives you an ability to take your thoughts, images, videos, anything that you can use to convey messages, communicate, connect, and just allows you to do that through the web, something that we all somewhat take for granted now. And so, the less you think about that, the better, from our perspective. Well, nick, as youve said, your software is free. So ive got to ask you, how do you make the money to keep it all going . So, yes, the Core Software is free. What we do in order to make money and to support that is help folks do it really excellently, with organisations. We, as a business, we take that, we deploy that in infrastructure that allows that to run at massive global scale. So whether youre in australia, south america, whether youre in asia, the americas, anywhere, our software will reach you quickly, fast, securely, all of those things that you tend to take for granted, but you expect with a website. So that if its your oscar night, or if its some big moment, that these things are available and they do exactly what you need and want you to do. Thats what were doing on our side, with our customers and stuff, to help make money. And then, that gets reinvested back into the Core Software itself, so that anyone else can have this for free. We really want to make sure that this thing, that the web is available for generations, and that we continue to reinvest back into that. And, nick, as we know, Attention Spans arent really that long these days. Apparently, youve only got eight seconds before people move on. So, heres the question how can you make websites keep customers, well, for longer . The thing that were actually seeing in this is that folks will engage for much longer, if you really create an experience thats generating something of interest and of value for them in doing that, from my perspective. Where weve seen this, we saw over the last 15 years massive use of various Social Networks for connecting with audiences. And now, were in this era of saying, actually, were not so sure aboutjust trusting Social Networks with our direct relationship with our audiences and our customers, etc. Bring them back to the website that we own. And organisations that are really investing in that, that are investing in the content they put in front of their customers, theyre seeing something, were calling it engaged time. Thats something that we really encourage folks to look at, notjust page views or things that are very short lived, but engaged time, growing over time, to the point of not eight seconds. Were seeing folks engaged for two, three, five minutes across multiple parts of a website, as folks really invest, though, in building an experience thats for that. Well, nick, one of the important things about wordpress is that, as weve said, its this open source software, which basically means anyone can come along and edit it. How do you make sure, nick, that people dont abuse that and that the sites, they can stay secure from hackers and the likes . We have a Massive Community contributing to wordpress, the Software Project, so it has more eyes on it than just about any other Software Project that does what our software does out there. So it is secure because there is a Thriving Community that is investing in its security. And we have built things into the platform that help do things like auto updating, you know, consistently working on, how do we just keep the platform secure . Thats a core tenet. And we know theres attackers, we know theres going to be things like this. But we focus deeply on, how do we help carry folks along through that . Thats a lot where were going to be focused. Well, nick, let me end on this. What are your top tips for a great website . Oh, gosh. Ifeel like i have to be really profound here now, aaron he laughs. Top tips for. I think the top tips for a website are empathise with the audience thats coming there. Show up in a way that matters to the audience. Do that in really simplified ways. I think weve seen overblown experiences that are slower and more cumbersome. Really get down to simplicity in these experiences on the web, that really does scale, that moves quickly. And then i think the Technology Behind that website needs to be one that you know youre going to be able to trust for decades. To do things excellently on the web, you need software and a platform thats going to let you move quickly and let you connect authentically with your customers. And thats really where i think our platform is going to shine there. And i think itsjust a critical need in this phase. So those are my top tips for a website. Well, on those top tips, nick gernert the big boss of wordpress vip really appreciate your time, nick. Thanks forjoining us, and well talk to you soon. All right, aaron, thank you so much. This has been a pleasure. Well, thats it for this weeks show. I hope you enjoyed it. Dont forget, you can keep up with the latest on the Global Economy on the bbc news website or the smartphone app. Of course, you can also follow me on x. X me, ill x you back. You can get me bbcaaron. Thanks for watching. Ill see you soon. Bye bye. Good morning. Welcome to breakfast with Sarah Campbell and rogerjohnson. Our headlines today more say for local residents on Traffic Control measures councils are told they must consult with communities before they tighten restrictions for motorists. On the final day of voting in russias president ial election, critics of the kremlin call for mass protests at polling stations. A new volcanic eruption in iceland homes are evacuated and a State Of Emergency is declared. Good morning. The celebrations will continue on st patricks day for ireland as they retain their six nations title after beating scotland in dublin. Also, the Chain Reaction caused by closing public toilets businesses say theyre having to pick up the cost of providing alternative facilities. Good morning. It is a really murky and for good morning. It is a really murky and for some wet start to sunday. The rest and for some wet start to sunday. The rest of and for some wet start to sunday. The rest of the Weather Prospects coming the rest of the Weather Prospects coming up the rest of the Weather Prospects coming up shortly for you