Transcripts For BBCNEWS Political Thinking with Nick... 20240922

Now on Bbc News political thinking with nick robinson. Hello, And welcome to political thinking a conversation with, rather than a newsy interrogation, of someone who shapes our political thinking about what a shape theirs. My guest this week has just celebrated ending the longest Train Drivers� strike in history a strike that was blamed for crippling the railways And angered many, many travellers. His members haVe Got a 15 Pay Rise over three years. He is Mick Whelan, The General secretary of aslef. He said that his members� strength, resilience, And determination was what had won that Pay Rise others say it was down to his crafty negotiation style. Mick whelan, welcome to political thinking. Thank you, nick. You finally got a deal after all that time how did you celebrate . Erm, by talking to the press. As soon as it becomes public knowledge, you And your colleagues obviously, so sky, bbc, the guardian, the usual outlets, And press will be Here Today With You And once you� ve done that, i� ll admit, i got changed And went down the road, went out with a couple of colleagues, had a couple of guinnesses, then went home to my family. Now, you said that, when labour got elected something, of course, you want, you� re the chair of Labour Trade unions the adults had entered The Room in those negotiations. What did you mean . Well, i� ve been negotiating at various levels, this industry And the movement for about a0 years. And ifound myself in a really odd position whereby we went to the people that we work for under the privatised industry, who we have Negotiating Rights with, And they said, we can no longer talk to you. You� Ve Got to talk to the government. To be told by the government, well, we can� t talk to you. You� Ve Got to talk to your employer. So, that left us in a rather difficult position. So, you know, there are only two things to do something or nothing. So we decided, as in each of those 14 companies, as the pay awards ran out, we would ballot our members, And hope that the And-pressure'>Leverage And Pressure they gave us would actually make Somebody Talk to us. And for those two years, i have to say, it was the maddest process i� ve ever been in. Because . Because nobody wanted to resolve it, nobody really wanted to talk to us. When you say, the Grown Ups walked into The Room, just paint the picture. Labour have won an election. The phone goes pretty quickly afterwards. Seriously all we� d asked. What happened . Well, quite basically, chronology wise, labour won on the fourth. On the fifth, they appointed Lou Hague Secretary of state. They appointed Lord Hendy on the ninth. I believe the initial meeting with myself And the Sister Trade unions we met at different times, of course was on the tenth. And we laid out what we believed our belief was, they put a new team in place, And, contrary to popular belief, it was not an easy negotiation. They did not want to be seen as caving in Orjust Rolling over in a two year dispute. And if you were to ask us if we� d got everything We Wanted no, we didn� t, but we got an equitable resolution. You didn� t get them to cave in, because everybody thinks they did cave in. Labour got into power, thought, let� s get this dispute out of the way. Here� s this nice guy who supports the Labour Party, union� s just given £100,000 to the Labour Party before its manifesto launch, let� s give them what they want. Well, if it had been that easy, i� d done it sooner. But it� s not realpolitik realpolitik is you� re cutting cloth it is about what is going to be compared to other people� s Pay Rises, the 22 Billion Black Hole that we now have been found additionally in the finances, or whatever else. And if anybody thinks it was an easy negotiation, it wasn� t. But actually, it was a nice negotiation, because people wanted to talk to you And wanted to find a resolution. Now, i liked a quote that i saw of you, after this was settled because you And i have had lots of interviews, And i� ve had a go at you occasionally on the Radio Thing with the things that people say about Train Drivers And aslef And you said, i� ll never be content. What did you mean . Well, it� s not the role of a Trade Union General Secretary to be content. We� re aspirational actually, if you listen to most politicians, they talk about being aspirational for the people they represent. All Trade Unions do is a microcosm of that. So, Train Drivers will always want to improve their conditions, they� ll always want Cost Of Living Pay Rises. They will always want a betterfuture. It� s my role to articulate that policy. You went on to say, i� m an argumentative bustard. Yes because that� s what i� m best at. And it was in the context of a six minute speech, which was slightly longer. But, you know, when people were asking me, what if . It was that what if moment, what if labour don� t do this . What if labour don� t do that . I said, we� ll do what we always do we� ll campaign, we� ll fight. And i� m an argumentative, And i� ll keep arguing until we get where we need to be. Have you always been since you were a little kid . I was quite shy when i was younger, but my dad had a real thing about education And a real thing about being able to articulate. And my wife has even is the same she sent all the kids to acting not because she wanted to be actress, but she wanted them to be able to have self confidence. And it was always about stAnding up for yourself. I was never the biggest kid in The Room, never whatever else. But my dad was incredibly well read strange enough, was part of the socialist Worker Party And very, very left wing. Far more left wing than i possibly am. Yeah, both of your parents are very political, i know very sadly, your mother� s only just died a few days ago your mum, maureen And your dad, sean but both of them, very political. Yes, they always had this thing about what was right And wrong. And there was always a discussion going on In The House, so there was always people In The House, always books In The House. There was always that. My dad had a very simple mantra. He said, i don� T Care what you do in life, as long as you chose to do it. So he was massive on education. He said, look, you can be anything you want, as long as you choose to be that, as long as you� re not forced to be that. That� s the only thing that would disappoint me. And i tried to carry that on with my kids. You went to quite a posh School you went to the same School as tony blair� s kids, the 0ratory. So i went to a primary School over the ha� penny steps, just near grenfell. Catholic primary my parents are irish immigrants And they took me into a room one day with 3 4 others And said, sit this test. So i answered these questions, And then, was given some of us were given the opportunity to go to cardinal vaughan, a School'>Grammar School at the time, And some got the opportunity to go to the 0ratory. What the 0ratory was very, very good for me, was it was the first time i knew i was poor. Really why . Just as you look around that School. . As i looked around the people that i was with, it was a very different demographic. Many of the people there were sons of ambassadors, And other things. And, you know, i also found out then how much my parents had to give up for me to go there. You know, Lab Coats And rugby shirts, And things that we� d never even thought about. I� d never seen a Rugby Ball before i went to the 0ratory, had i . Because your dad worked at a building site, your mum worked in a Sweet Shop at euston, at a train station. So there� s not a lot of money back then . No, not back then. And my parents came home in the very late � 50s. So it was very much the era of no blacks, no dogs, no irish. And that funded into, you know, the thinking In The House And discussions In The House. But also, you know, there� s this thing about when Trade Union leaders get together, we sit in a room And out poor Each Other. Well, there� s four of us in one bedroom. And i went through that period of time, you know, as you said, we weren� t rich. But there was my mum, dad, myself, my sister in a one bedroom flat for a period of time until we got a bigger Council House And things moved on. And being irish, orfrom irish parents, at least, did that shape your attitude . Very much so. I mean, there is a cultural aspect And a Socialisation Aspect to everything that you do. So yeah, a lot of it. And then, the idea of Fighting Irish Fighting Irish isn� t always about physical battles, it is, you know i look around the movement And i� ve seen everybody from Billy Hayes to bob crow, to frances 0� grady, tojoe 0� grady, now Mick Lynch, whatever there is a big thread through the Trade Union movement of people of irish heritage. Mick lynch, leader of the rmt, the other big Rail Union you are the drivers, he represents pretty much Everybody Else not quite Everybody Else, but pretty much Everybody Else both went to the same primary School, ifind, in west london, And both come from irish parents. And both lived in the same estate for a period of time. I� m a bit older than he is, though, i won� t say how much older. Yeah, you weren� T Playing in the playground together at that stage. And sharon graham, leader of unite, one of the biggest unions also from irish parents. Yes, And i think there� s something in there that makes you if you see injustice And you want to articulate about it, that gives you that, that fire or that ambition. Does it also give you an empathy for people who are disadvantaged . It does, And also, other people. I always thought it was best bringing everybody up, And not leaving anybody behind. And, you know, it isn� tjust about how you move on. It� s how you bring future generations on. Now, you say your dad cared passionately about education, got you to a good School. You aimed to go to university, but you couldn� t. Unfortunately, dad had fell off a scaffold And broke his back. I went to my mum And said, i� ll take a year out. I� ll be quite honest, i didn� t actually know what a year out was. It was a phrase that i� d heard. Yeah, you didn� t mean a Gap Year . I didn� t mean a Gap Year, And i didn� t mean whatever else because. And my mother, being irish, said, look, if you� re not going to School, you� re going to work. Back then, there were only four banks barclays, lloyds, midlAnd, natwest. So i applied for all four, turned up at barclays, And had this interview And the most interesting interview i� ve ever had, he said, do you play rugby . I said, yes. He said, will you play rugby for the bank . I said, yes, he said, you� Ve Got thejob. I think it was a slightly different world back then. And i entered into a world which i� m not quite sure i enjoyed. But what struck me as interesting, i read, is that your dad� s ambition for you was not a particular job, butjust not being like he was. Not having to do what he had to do, manual work. Well, that� s right, i mean. You know, at the time, i think My Uncle was living with us, My Uncle was an electrician. Electricians were quite well paid, but they all had this Aspiration Nobody went on the site, because it wasn� t safe. It was a different world. We are talking about the � 70s where, you know, there was very little legislation, very little protections And my dad, actually, when he had his accident, received no compensation at all, because there was no employer� s liability insurance, there was nothing wrong with it. And that also fuels into your ambition then about that shouldn� t happen, And it can� t happen to other people. So that makes you very political. Now presumably, your mum, your dad regarded most Labour Leaders as a Sell Out . Well, my dad did. My mum had an affinity for Harold Wilson for some reason, i don� t know. But yeah, you know. But generally, they were way to the left. They were way to the left, whatever. And, you know. And so are you, no . I was back in the day, i mean, look, young, angry, inarticulate, sit in those rooms in Malet Street with the Socialist Alliance And others, all arguing that We Wanted to change the world And do the same things, then arguing about what mantra we were going to use to do it. And that was, as you know yourself, that becomes incredibly And i imagine that happened in your university, in The Rooms that you were in, as well. Yeah, of course. But what� s interesting is that, when Keir Starmer gets elected, people then say that he had a left wing past, but he� s junked it whereas you� ve been quite open that you like the manifestos ofJeremy Corbyn. You liked 2017, you liked 2019. I think you� re still a friend withjeremy, aren� t you . Yes look, it was a once in a lifetime moment. The opportunity didn� t happen. You know, 2017, we came within 2,000 votes of running the country. I still look at some of the rhetoric used againstjeremy And some of the way that the establishment turned upon him, And i do think, what were they scared of . Because at the end of the day, parliamenT Works in the way in which parliament does, tied by its riggers And tied by the constraints of the economy. How different, in their views as against tactics, as against what they feel they need to say to get elected, is Keir Starmer from Jeremy Corbyn . And you know him well now, don� t you . Chair of the labour unions, 11 affiliate unions. It� s fundamentally, but also, he� s running on a platform of competence. You know, we have had the most, in my view, economically illiterate government for a decade And a half that we� ve ever seen. I don� t understAnd the 1a years of austerity And the running down of the country its infrastructure, its services. I don� t understAnd how we became the highest Borrowing Government of all time outside of covid if you discounted covid, if you added every parliament in history together, the tories borrowed more money than anybody else. Where did it go . What did we spend it on . What did we get for it . But what do you say when people now worry, as some do, that this Labour Government is committed to austerity . It� s talking about £22 Billion that it� s got to find, it� s already cut the Winter Fuel Allowance for Ten Million pensioners. Do you think there is a danger of that . There� s always a danger. If you run on a platform, we which we did, of there� s 1a million people in poverty And One Million people in Destitution Anything that� s seen to make that is worse quite naturally. But i do understAnd the fledgling government saying, well, hold on, we� re six weeks in, give us a chance. Right, we� ve committed to do all these things in our manifesto. We� ve had to pull the 28 Billion for green projects because of the hole that was there, because we� d end up with another truss weekend. You know, we don� t want to do this. And i truly do believe when they say they don� t want to do it. And, you know, we� ll have that debate at conference next week. I imagine the unions will be asking for them to change their mind. Well, we know, don� t we, that unite, with The General secretary, sharon graham, has put down a motion And she has argued that, And i quote, workers And communities voted for change, for a better Future Notjust better management And not cuts to the Winter Fuel Allowance. Do you agree . Doesn� t that come back to your original thing about me being argumentative, And whatever else . Look, And being discontent you always want more, you always want better. But you agree with that . I agree that, you know look, there� ll be priorities, right . And i do believe it is for the government to dictate those priorities, or whatever else. And the debate of what those priorities are, the pressure will come from the various Trade Unions And sectors for their priorities And what they want. But you� ll vote against the cut in the Winter Fuel Allowance . I will vote against the cut in the Winter Fuel Allowance. Is Keir Starmer too gloomy . Gloomy or honest . You know, ithink there is we had. I think political discourse in the last 15 years, Post Brexit And trump, changed in many ways. And i think the way in which it changed was, it became seen as seedy And dishonourable, And less fact based. And when you� Ve Got somebody now telling you the truth, is that now a revelation, And do we attack them for telling the truth . Or do we say, well, what do we do about that truth . Sounds like you think starmer is a guy that you don� t necessarily agree with on quite a lot, but you can do business with . I agree with him on quite a lot. I might disagree about how we� re going to get there. Well, let� s turn to pay, And what you learnt from that dispute. What you got And how your tactics worked. You� ve often said, look, your members that had their pay frozen or cut over time i think i pointed out to you on one edition of the Today Programme that, between 2009 And 2021, Train Drivers got a 17 real terms pay increase, whereas the average employee in britain got a 1 real terms pay increase. You� ve done very well, haven� t you . Isn� T Ourjob to be successful . So, we no longer applaud success in the uk what We Want is a race to the bottom And create the politics of envy. I found it incredibly odd. So, we have a week where the government declares they� ll lift the cap on bankers� bonuses yet anybody else in the. And we weren� t in the public sector, by the way, which made this most ironic has to have a Pay Cut because the state of the economy. We can change the pension system, where we have the lowest pensions in europe for people who retire after working all their lives but for millionaires, we� ll Make It Better for them. I see a disconnect. I see something wrong in our politics when that happens. But i mentioned the figure is it right that, on average, Train Drivers under this new deal, three years, will be up to, on average, £73,000 a year . I hope so, i� ll have to check now. Double the average of a Bus Driver . Possibly. Could be three times more, i suspect, than a student nurse. I mean, do your members really deserve to be paid that much . I believe so, but i also believe the other people that you� ve just named believe should have higher wages, as well. I don� t believe that £30,000 a year is a Living Wage in this country. It definitely isn� t a Living Wage in london. You know, the high Cost Of Living, the prices have gone through the roof Post Brexit. The cost of renting And or getting a mortgage so many people that are in work And in Work Poverty because work doesn� t pay. Surely the argument should be reversed why aren� t other people getting what they need to live upon . Shouldn� t you have modernised the industry in return for more pay . Oh please, please because ministers over the years just say, Mick Whelan, he� s always resisting change And to be fair, Mick Lynch at the other union, the rmt. Well, can they give us an example . 0h, i� ll give you some examples. Please. Obviously, i don� T Work in the industry, so i� m going to ask you the question. I saw a list of examples in one of the right wing papers the other day that you may well quote from, And i would love to do away with these urban myths. Well, let� s go through them because cards on the table i got these from a newspaper article. That� s fine. I� m not claiming i know for a fact they� re true. We� ll have to do it fairly headline ish, because we can� t go into the Micro Detail of Trade Union negotiations. Is it true that Rail Staff who use a microwave can have paid time off for a medical check . Total lie. Not true at all . I made my researchers go back through all our agreements, whether i can� t find an agreement, our Head Office says. I don� t know anybody who would agree that anywhere, or anybody would ask for it. 0k is it true that if your boss says hello during a break, that� s treated as an interruption of the break, And the break has to start again . No what they� re meant to do is, say hello to anybody you want, but they� re not meant to do is ask you for a report or ask you to do any other duty. So, for those of you who don� t quite know how railway breaks work, you could be ten And a ahlf hours on duty, do five And a half hours in a seat without a break which is a problem in itself have a 20 minutes, then go back And do more trains, then do 20 minutes later on. If someone� s coming to you in that 20 minutes, by the time you� ve had your physical needs And possibly had something to eat, if they come to you for any other purpose, it� s their agreement, because your focus shouldn� t be impacted by the way, right, that the breaks should start again. Is it true that Rail Staff are paid a Walking Allowance . Right, can i explain how a timetable works . So it is true . Let me explain. So, we are the most quipped to use the phrase used in the bank time And motion people in the world. From the moment you start to the moment you undertake any activity, there has to be a time allowance. So, from you booking on, being seen to book on safely in the right place, not under the influence or whatever, from the moment you then walk from there to where you� re picking up yourtrain, the amount of time it takes you to set that train up, the amount of time it takes you to get to the other end of the train to set it up to leave, to make sure it� s all fit for purpose, there has to be an allowance, so you know what time that train is going to leave And the timetable. So everything we do, right, isn� t an agreement by us that we have to have it it has to happen, right, for the activities we actually undertake to work, to allow our timetable to be composed. It� s interesting, listening to you talk through these examples, because i� ve spoken to people who say, look, the key to Mick Whelan� s success as well as being a degree of charm, which you� Ve Got, is And i mean this in a nice way, you� re a nerd. You really know the detail, you� re a guy that gets right down in the detail. I was a Train Driver. Yeah. And, you know, we� re a unique trade, we� re a craft Trade Union. There� s no one in our Trade Union elected any position that hasn� t actually done the job. So i� ve been a Train Driver. Now, louise hague lou, as you call her the new transport secretary, after she did this deal, after she was criticised for doing a deal with no strings attached to it, she then said that the deal clears the way for vital reform, including modernising outdated working practices. Has she got that wrong . Well, depends is she talking specifically about us, or about the whole railway itself . So, we� re now in a transitional period where the third reading of the bill to actually allow Uk Government to run its own trains has just gone through. And then, the next bill will be the one to create gbr, which will nationalise the railway And create a vertically integrated public safe railway. Great British Railways is gbr. As part of that process, then, when you tupe the 1a Companies that haVe Got different terms And conditions that are aligned to the patterns of the timetables that they run in, you� ll have to stAndardise. Just be clear to people tupe is a law that means when you transfer people from being employed by one company into a new one, their practices have to be transferred so that they can� t be exploited. But also, at that point, you also get economies of scale. You don� t get this thing where a Virgin Driver can� t drive a central train� s train or, you know under br, when i was a Train Driver, i could go to any depot within three hours where there was shortfall, if i had the knowledge, And cover any train that they had, right . 0n the day that they privatised the railway, i was sectorised into railfreight distribution, which was a freight depot, And i saw the trains that i used to cover stAnding there because they didn� t have the resources. I� m told, if we� d done this interview in your And-i'>Office And I haven� t been to your office. Please come along. It� s full of political memorabilia, full of railway stuff, And full of chelsea stuff. Now, this is a cheap gag from a Manchester United fan. Isn� t the problem with British Railways, they� re a bit like your team they spend a fortune And they� re having less success than ever . Well, i� m not going to talk about ten hag And his colleagues at the moment. I started going to chelsea when i went to the 0ratory. We overlooked the ground, And i went for 30 years before we won anything. And then, we had that great period of time when the Russian Billionaire came in And we won a couple of European Trophies And a few leagues, And three doubles or whatever, when man united weren� t doing so well. Fair comment. Do you it� s been your life do you love railways . Because there are some people for whom it� sjust, there� s emotion to it. There is, i love the romance of railways. I� m also, i� m very much in that Field Of Dreams place. If you build it, they will come. We� ve seen from the elizabeth line that, you know, we saw all the controversy over the overrunning, the costs, And whatever else. The day it opened up, 140,000 more people than expected used it. Now that wasn� t rubberneckers, that� s continued Four Million people have used it so far this year. It� s going to pay for itself in five years. We� ll have that asset for 5 7 more generations or more if we look after it, right . We are a little islAnd, 750 miles long, 64 Million people on it. Tell me how we deliver kyoto, paris, or the 1 without Mass Transit And mass freight, And railway, And better integrated thinking . If we� re going to build more roads, And i do believe in integrated transport, ijust like the idea of long lorries going into daventry And hams hall, as they do now, And shorter electronic lorryjourneys, right, that keep those jobs in place. You talk with passion about the railways, but there� s emotion too, isn� t there . You talked And you haven� t done it very often, And i can imagine why about a tragedy that you were confronted with as a Train Driver on one occasion . Yeah, i was a young Train Driver, And i remember it well. It was a sunday, between camden And caledonian road, And i hit a scaffold board, And it� s old fashioned Third Rail where you get the juice not from the overheads, but from the floor. So back then, the rules were you stop the train, you communicate with the guard, And then you walk back to Each Other along the same side. So whoever came across it calls it in first. And when we got about halfway down the train, there was a young child, shaking, obviously been electrocuted by the Third Rail. We did what we had to do. We called the emergency services, whatever. Unfortunately, the child died on the way to hospital. I had young children at the time. And. You can� t forget it, you don� t forget it. And then i became a full time officer later on, And i did many inquests, many fatalities. And i saw some Train Drivers who never drove again, some who just got back on a horse And rode it, And some were affected by it. What it did do, it made me sure that we now have proper counselling in place. We now have processes in place where you just don� t go back out there the next day. Did you have any of that . I did have support, but not the level of support we now put in place in this day And age. And does it live with you . Of course it lives with you. I mean, you neverforget it, it� s a child. And, you know, i� ve also seen other tragedies on about the railway, And they live with you, too. And also, one of the things i did do when i first became General Secretary, was i went to see the chief coroner, And the biggest problem we had was you normally don� t. You have the inquest about 18 months afterwards. And actually reliving it is the worst moment. Actually, the first when i went, i went to Saint Pancras back then, And they put me in a room with a family. There i was in full railway uniform, sitting there on my driver� s badge with the family. And that shouldn� t happen, you know, not for them And not for us. So we� ve changed, we� ve modernised, to use a better term. So we now have an agreement, unless there� s any fog as to what happened, where And when, Train Drivers don� t have to attend. Do you see yourself as a champion of the working class, as was often said of previous Trade Union leaders . No, you just. When i go home, i� m just dad. And when i� m out And about, most people don� t recognise you, And the ones that do tend to recognise you tend to want to have a go about something. So, you don� t do this for a legacy. You don� t think about it when you� re doing it. I� Ve Got a very simple mantra you only face the challenges that come in front of you in the period of time that you� re there, And someone else will talk about it later on. Mick whelan, thank you forjoining us on political thinking. Absolute pleasure, thank you. There is a myth about successful Trade Unionists that it� s all simply about flexing their muscle. That happens, of course. You also need, as Mick Whelan shows, quite a lot of charm And an awfully large grasp of the fine negotiating detail. Thanks for watching. Its it� s already been a lively start of the weekend with a number of thunderstorms reported on saturday across englAnd And wales. 0ne Cluster of storm went across the skyline of ashburn, in derbyshire. The Seam Storms earlier in the day dumped what seems to be marble sized hail in wolverhampton. That cluster of storms will clear way northwards from And-north'>Merseyside And North wales but that are focused shifts to the south And across northern france, where we� Ve Got more Thunder Downpours waiting, And they will swing in. Worst Case Scenario on sunday, some communities can see a month� s worth of rainfall, so there is an increased threat of seam localised Flooding Building And as we build through sunday. Next to ever see those storms arrive from the south. In scotlAnd, a lot of low And-drizzle'>Cloud And Drizzle across eastern areas, but misty too. Temperatures around 13 16 c for englAnd And wales, cooler in scotlAnd. Sunday� s forecast those Thunder Downpours with us for much of the day And there� ll be some places that see storm after storm, particularly across the midlAnds And wales. For North Eastwards into scotlAnd, eastwards into scotla nd, Another Cloudy Eastwards into scotlAnd, another cloudy until day with some missed patches around, spots of drizzle should be drier And brighter with sunny spells And sunshine for western scotlAnd. Monday, we still have that rain across englAnd And wales, heavy And thunder he still. Another area of rain works into northern scotlAnd on monday that� s a Cold Front, starting to drop temperatures across northern scotlAnd, heights of 12 celsius in stornoway, just ten in law rick. Towards the middle part of the week, we see areas of low Pressure Move across the country, bringing some heavy rain particularly focused on englAnd And wales. 0nce that� s cleared through, we get these northwesterly Winds Diving across the country, really dropping the temperatures as the week goes by. Tuesday, a Cold Front in scotlAnd bringing rain here, as we go through the day, further southwards across the rest of englAnd And wales, And finally stopped raining. Should be a dry day with more in the way of sunshine And still reasonable temperatures in the south. Turning colder in the north, just ten in And-1a'>Aberdeen And 1a in belfast. As we go deeper into the new week, it stays unsettled, rain at times with temperatures for all of us well below average. Live from london. This is Bbc News israel says it� s using dozens of aircraft to attack hezbollah in southern lebanon, as the us says it� s worried about an escalation. Lebanese officials say the number of people killed in friday s israeli Air Strike in beirut has risen to 37, including children. Hezbollah confirms two of its senior commAnders are among the dead. Dozens more women contact the bbc And legal teams with fresh allegations about the former Harrods Boss mohamed al fayed. 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