David and how they stay there. You do not feel inadequate because being only the second wealthiest man in the world, right . Everyone has no doubt used bandaids or tylenol. Those products are wellknown products produced by Johnson Johnson. Johnson johnson is also a giant in many other areas, and its now taking a leading role in preparing a vaccine for covid19. Its ceo is alex gorsky, a west point trained former military man who has done an incredible job over the last eight years making this company the most valuable Health Care Company in the world. Now, some people say the most commonly spoken words in the english language today are can you hear me because of the zoom phenomenon, but i assume in your case, the most commonly asked question of you is when is the vaccine coming . So you must be getting asked this every hour on the hour. Why dont i just do this as well . When is your vaccine coming . Alex its usually about every 15 minutes, actually, that i get asked that. Let me start by saying i could not be more proud of the incredible work that our scientists and our engineers have been doing over the past nine months to put us in the position where we are today with a vaccine. I mean, to think what would ordinarily take five or seven years we have been able to do in a matter of months is quite remarkable. And you know, without their hard work and dedication, probably 40,000 of our 150,000 employees, mostly in our factories and facilities and our laboratories have still been working they have been going literally around and they have been going literally around the clock to make that possible. We still have a lot of work to do, but we have made a lot of progress and we will be finding a lot more in the coming weeks and months. Consistent with what we talked about recently when we announced the start of our phase three trial, we would expect by late this year, early next year we should be in a position to begin reviews with regulatory authorities to see if our vaccine is in fact safe, effective, and something that could be considered for an emergency use authorization here in the United States and more likely around the world. David so even if you have emergency use authorization, to be realistic about it, it is not going to be ready until next year, is that right . Alex i think that is a good time frame be planning on. To be planning on. And again, a lot of it will depend on what we find in phase three, and as you know that can depend on the instance of the virus, of course, because that has an impact on Statistical Analysis you will be using in your study. It is going to depend on how well our vaccine is actually doing in the study and what kind of efficacy rates you hit. But i think for planning purposes, if you think about late 2020, early 2021, i think those are the kind of timelines that are likely most realistic. David you and a number of ceos of vaccine manufacturers have issued a letter saying you do not want to be politically pressured to have a certain date and so forth. Can you articulate why you felt the need for that letter . Alex look, we think this is an incredibly important time for the pharmaceutical industry, and industry, let alone each of our companies and it is absolutely critical during a time when unfortunately everything becomes politicized that we rely on data, science, that we rely on wellestablished regulatory guidelines to guide all of our decisions regarding the development and actual utilization of these vaccines. And we thought that collectively making a very explicit statement about our commitment, our pledge to following those established guidelines was very important to maintain the trust, to maintain the confidence of people around the world regarding the safety and efficacy and actual accessibility of these vaccines. David in a recent survey, i read that was done of americans, that only 19 are yet prepared today to take a vaccine if it is available. Is that a surprise to you, that so many people are not ready to take it . Is that because of the perceived politicize ation around it . Alex unfortunately, it is not a surprise and it is fairly consistent with what you see with the annual flu vaccine. It could range anywhere from 20 to in some of the best states as high as 40 , 50 . I understand some of the skepticism and cynicism. There is a lot of misinformation and there is a lot of concern that people genuinely have based upon some of the readings you can find out there. But i think that demonstrates just how important it is for us to number one, work closely with health care authorities, whether it is the cdc, barda, nih, the fda, agencies outside of the United States to follow those appropriate protocols. I think secondly, it is going to take a lot of education. And that is, by the way, not only the responsibility, i believe, of the pharmaceutical industry come but industry, but it is going to require the government, it will require perhaps even businesses, other stakeholders to make sure that we are sharing the facts. Look, i am cautiously optimistic that as we provide more data, more information, that as people see the potential impact, positive impact this could have in terms of returning back to a more normal state in some way , that people will find the comfort and confidence to have a vaccine, because ultimately it is going to be very important as we think about returning to a new kind of normal. David now, the federal government has poured billions of dollars into getting a vaccine developed and provided you and other companies with that money to help facilitate the production of this. Do you think that the taxpayer should get a benefit by either getting very low cost vaccines or free vaccines . Alex well, yes, david. Look, i think i think it is in the publics best interest that we are seeing this kind of publicprivate partnership. It would be very difficult for us to make the kinds of advancements and accelerate the timelines that we are doing right now were it not for the partnership that we are seeing not only in terms of funds being provided, but literally the day to day interactions taking place between regulators and scientists across many of these platforms. You know, in our case, from the very beginning we made a pledge that we would do this on a notforprofit basis. And, yes, we are working with the government. We have accepted government funds, but we also recognize it recognize as Johnson Johnson, it is important for us at this very unique time to do it on a notforprofit basis so that we can give as many people access around the world as possible. So that is the approach we are taking. David now, there is a fear in some circles that wealthy people will get the vaccine quicker than people that are not wealthy and you have, with other ceos and other Health Care Officials and the bill and Melinda Gates foundation, signed a letter essentially saying you are committed to making certain it does not go to only wealthy people and people in the United States. Can you explain why you wanted to have that letter and how you are going to make sure that happens . Alex the only way we beat the virus is if we have global distribution, and no one is safe , frankly, if the entire world is not provided access. So we are absolutely committed to doing this in a very ethical and very just way, and we worked very hard to make agreements clearly with governments like the United States, europe, japan, the developed countries, but we are also working handinhand with other pharmaceutical companies, the bill and Melinda Gates foundation to ensure that developing countries also have got access. David looking back, what would you say that the cdc or fda or the white house or hhs should have done differently . Alex almost all of us have underestimated the dramatic impact of this outbreak. David so as we talk today, the big news is that President Trump and the first lady have contracted the coronavirus. Is that a surprise to you that that could have possibly happened . Alex well, david, look, i think it demonstrates that we are all vulnerable and we still all need to be very vigilant and diligent in the actions we are taking to prevent this virus from spreading any further. David you as the ceo of the largest Health Care Company in the United States, i think it is the 10th Largest Company by the market cap in the entire United States, market value of almost about 400 billion, you have to be very careful because i think it would look bad, wouldnt it, if the ceo of the largest Health Care Company got the virus . So what do you do to protect yourself . Alex well, david, look i think all of us have a huge responsibility to take care of ourselves and certainly those of us fortunate enough to be in this kind of a situation where we have responsibility of others, weve got to be sure we put the safety of our employees, of our friends, of our family in family first in everything that we do. That starts with simple things, and one of the things that we have learned most through this pandemic is by making sure we are using social distancing, that we are wearing masks, washing our hands, that we are doing everything we can to prevent the spread of the virus are the most important steps we can take to actually bringing an end to this pandemic and dealing with it for the long term. David now, vaccines are what everybody has been focused on, but there are also therapeutics. So, for people who might have already contracted the disease virus, is have the there any progress being made on therapeutics that might help people that already have the disease . Alex david, thats a great point. There is no one Silver Bullet here. And i think what is really important for everyone to understand, it will take a holistic approach, because likely we will be dealing with this not only as a pandemic, but it will be endemic for several years Going Forward. So in all likelihood, it will take a combination of therapeutics for patients who are actually sick, vaccines to prevent it from happening in the first place, and last but not least, the hospital protocols. I think they have done a great job, still much more work to do in terms of reducing mortality and morbidity. David things that have been talked about are remdesivir, hydroxychloroquine, and also convalescent plasma. But generally today you would not say those things are therapeutics that will solve the problem, is that right . Alex not each and of themselves. There will be various opportunities to use them. Look, we are going to learn, for example, with convalescent plasma when and where are they most effective, in what patient populations . In an older population . Could they be used, for example, in an elder care facility where you are seeing an outbreak in a more aggressive way . Should antivirals be used earlier in the disease . And i think again, we are developing a lot of information as we speak and we will learn a lot more in the coming weeks and months. David hindsight is always 20 20, it is said, but looking back, what would you say the cdc cdc or the the fda or the white house or hhs should have done differently . Is there anything you would recommend to someone in the future that they do differently if they were overseeing this kind of Pandemic Response . Alex you know, youre right. When you look backwards, things always seem clear, and i think there are a few lessons, and i would also say that almost all of us have underestimated the dramatic impact of this outbreak. I mean, if you would have asked most people eight or nine months ago if you would ever see the kind of impact we are seeing around the world right now, few would have gotten it right. I think there are lessons to be learned. First and foremost is the importance, david, of Global Public health, and i think Going Forward we will understand much better that if we do not have Global Public health security, we do not have national security, we dont have economic security, and we will not have security as society. So i think the importance of being prepared, making sure that weve got the kind of protocols in place, certain products prepositioned and frankly also move from a maniacal focus on efficiency and effectiveness in certain cases to one more of resiliency and sustainability, particularly for these kind of situations. David were even you surprised at Johnson Johnson, and maybe the Health Care Industry was at manufacturing things in china and offshore so that for ppe, we almost had to beg the chinese to give us some material. Will that change in the future and were you surprised by the extent we were dependent about dependent on offshore production . Alex yes, i think this is an important lesson for all industries, every supply chain. The good news is over the last several decades, the globally integrated supply chain has reaped tremendous rewards in terms of efficiency and effectiveness for so many different companies. However, i think it is important for us to realize that we have got to make sure we have got the kind of redundancy and resiliency when these types of situations arise. And so we are looking hard across our supply chain as we speak to say, look, what are the things where yes, we can still take advantage of so many of the efficiencies from what we were doing before, but what other things do we need to think about . Reshoring, what other capabilities do we need to make sure we have more local, in future pandemics we are better positioned and better prepared . David if the doctor says you need a bandaid here, ill give you a shot, and he puts a bandaid on that is not a bandaid, it is some other companys product, you take it off . Alex i actually had that happen one time. I had a bicycling accident where i had to get some stitches in my hand, and of course, when i went to the local hospital i made sure they were our sutures. David working remotely, what did you learn about yourself that either surprised you or please do with what you pleased you with what you learned . Alex one of the hardest parts is i get energy from being out and engaging with our employees and customers and i spent my entire career really doing my best to get to know people on a personal basis, being out and about, and one thing i have long known as a ceo is the higher you go, the more troubling the news gets or the funnier your jokes can be, and unless you are out there engaging with employees daytoday, you can become insulated, and finding a way to do that visavis zoom took a little bit of time, but it is something we are learning and adapting to day by day. David how do you think the world will change for Johnson Johnson once the pandemic is behind us . Alex i hope we come back to a new and better normal, besides just the old normal. Our value system, along with innovation do depend upon proximity, collaboration, and working together, and that being said, we also feel Going Forward we should not just fall back into the exact same habits. Will we fly halfway around the world for that same two hour meeting the way we did before . Maybe not, but we need to have the same large gatherings with more the kind of frequency, perhaps not. Does that mean people will be five days in the Office Versus others . No. But we also know that over the longterm, allowing people to get together, creating informal connections and networks around the company is really important to maintain. Again, our value system, our culture as well as the innovation in our products and services. David lets talk about how you went from a graduate of west point to becoming the ceo of this company. So, where did you grow up . Alex i could not have imagined 20, 40, 60 years ago i would be in this role and position. But i was actually born in kansas city, kansas. My grandparents for the most part were immigrants and opened up small stores, worked in meatpacking plants in kansas city, and i was there through my early years and then my father was moved with his job when i was about 12 years old to a little town in the lower peninsula of michigan. David what propelled you to say i want to go to west point . Alex look, i was very fortunate. Both my mother and father worked. My father started with gerber baby foods and worked his way. But he was also a korean war veteran and he stayed in the army reserves, and my mother taught special education students, so i thought it was natural when you were growing up that your father not only went to work and your mother went to work, but also one weekend a month he would put a uniform on to go serve his country. I was really inspired by that, and i was one of six children, and i also knew going to a place like west point not only would afford me an opportunity for a great education and a career, but it was also an economical way to do it and one i could pay my own way through. So i put all of that together and found that to be a really, you know, attractive path, and i was fortunate that i was able to follow. David when you graduated, did you say, now i want to be a healthcare care executive . How long did you stay in the military . Alex i graduated and like all of my classmates, i went into the army as a lieutenant. I had an assignment in europe, my very first role, and i was stationed back in the United States in california in the seventh infantry division, and i spent six years where i ended my service as a captain, a battery commander in a Rapid Deployment force unit and that is when i made my decision to exit the army and join Johnson Johnson. David now, you also got a mba from wharton. Alex yes. David when did you have time to do that . Alex well, when i left the army, i started as a Sales Representative at Johnson Johnson. It was part of the Leadership Development program and i felt getting the skills, understanding the customers, really learning what doctors and surgeons and nurses and people who are using our products on a daytoday basis, that was an important experience to get, and then i went into Sales Management and later into marketing. But i also realized, i had studied engineering in college. And i realized that if i was going to have the skills in business that i felt were really necessary, going back and getting exposed much more in depth to accounting, finance, strategy and other things was going to be important. And i was very fortunate they at theed my attendance executive mba program at wharton, where i went and completed that at an early point in my career. David so, you started out in marketing with a subsidiary of Johnson Johnson. At the time you did that, did you say well, somebody who starts out as a marketing person for this subsidiary surely should rise up to be the ceo someday . Did you ever imagine at that point that you could rise up or have you always had that is your goal . As your goal . Alex no, i did realize however that getting exposure and experience with as many different aspects of our business early on in my career was important, and marketing was one place where you could interface with research and development to really understand our products, where you would engage with your finance counterparts, your supply chain people. So it was really the kind of position to expose you to all aspects of the organization. Look, at that time, i aspired to perhaps be able to run one of our divisions, and from there, things took on a life of their own. David so, youve now been the ceo since 2012, about eight years or so, and for most ceos of fortune 500 companies, unless they were the founder of them, generally five, six years is fairly average. So you are eight, but you are also very young and obviously in good shape. Is it your plan to do this for a ourselves, stay healthy, get the kind of rest that you need, eat the right way, and i think doing all of these things not only happen or help in your daily life, but are certainly going to affect in a situation like covid19 as well. David when you are running the biggest Health Care Company in the United States, you are always worried someone might see you eating a french fry or big mac or you gain an extra pound or something. Do you feel you have to be careful because everybody is watching you, who you are and the company you are running . Alex i do not worry about that. What is important about life as in so many things is balance. I tend to follow an axiom. During the week, especially given my travel schedule, my demands, i tend to be pretty strict about the kind of food i eat and what kind of rituals i put in place. It keeps me on pace whether i am here in New Brunswick or china or traveling in other places around the world. On the weekends, of course i like to have a burger from time to time or that steak, and that is why i work so hard and trying to keep fit along the way. I find by having that balance, i can take care of myself but also have fun. David you are in pretty good shape, obviously. But eventually, i guess you go to the doctor for annual physicals or Something Like that. If the doctor says you need a bandaid here, i will give you a shot, and he puts a bandaid on that is not a bandaid, it is some other companys product, do you take it off and say, you can only use Johnson Johnson products on me . Alex i actually had that happen one time. I had a bicycling accident and had to get some stitches in my hand. When i went to the local hospital, i made sure they were our sutures. Look, i have had my hip replaced. I have one of our products in my hip, and it feels great, and it was a life changer for me once i had that procedure done. David listen, i appreciate your giving us this much time. I hope the vaccine comes as soon as possible in a healthy and good way, and safe for everybody. Alex you can rest assured we are going to be working 24 7 doing everything we can to make that possible between now and then. Businesses today are looking to tomorrow. Adapting. Innovating. Setting the course. But new ways of working demand a new type of network. One thats more than just fast. You need flexibility to work from anywhere. And manage from everywhere. Advanced technology. With serious security. And reliable coverage, nationwide. Forwardthinking enterprises, deserve forwardthinking solutions. And thats what we deliver. So bounce forward, with comcast business. Erik i am erik schatzker, and welcome to bloombergs front row. Today, im talking to brookfields ceo bruce flatt. Hes always been a contrarian, leaning into the out of favor, buying what others want or need to sell. The pandemic is no exception. Bruce there will be consolidation, and the best will get better and the worst will go away. And fifth avenue in new york, and bond street in london, these will still be amazing places. Erik bruce turned brookfield into one of the Worlds Largest alternative asset managers