Transcripts For CNNW CNN 20240704

Prime time with laura coats joins now. Happy monday to you im actually perhaps as stand as the judges there was not more advisement by council at the very least for that sentencing. If youre calling me a cynic that might be true. Nice to see you caitlin him also jealous that you guys are not best friends. Im so happy for you its wonderful. Dont worry when i hang with katie will obviously invite you to come with us. Can you invite simone biles with the same height. Thank you so much and good evening im laura code thank you for joining me and tonight despite a judge warning they will be slapped in handcuffs if he violates the police his rhetoric is even growing more and more by the day. In fact his railing against the judge and the prosecutors and his successor. Even some key witnesses even someone he knows quite well. Im talking about Vice President mike pence. Hes also telling some critics to go to just days after a certain night meant. This one over efforts to overturn the election so now the big question that everyone is asking and waiting for that judge ruling on that protective order is just how far can trump maybe push the line. Just a short time ago they said he was just talking politics here when he threatened to go after anyone who came after him. Now in light of this trumps team is asking the judge to lighten up when it comes to setting the rules on what evidence their client can discuss publicly. Special counsel has just responded saying that trump while he wants to try this case in the media and they want to try it in the court of law. We are hearing a variety of defenses from his attorney. You will see a couple that we will word chart right there. Free speech technical violation of the constitution it runs the gamut. Lets talk with one of trumps attorneys, hes not a Trial Member Bodies an attorney. Hes not involve the Special Counsel cases but he is here with me tonight jessi im glad to see you thank you. Im sure youve been asked a great deal but what the other lawyers are saying about the defenses. I dont question on the trial team but you know these cases quite well. There was one from one of your colleagues who made the comment that look pin his comments regarding Vice President pence the word he used was aspirational. Listen to this. What President Trump did not do is direct Vice President pence to do anything he asked him in an aspirational, way asking is covered by the First Amendment. So, this reads as a bit odd to many people. Notion that you would be aspiring, to do . What do you believe that is the case . I do believe its a case. One thing we have to remember is that the First Amendment has more than the speech, cause more than the assembly clause. The First Amendment has the petition for. And so in this case that means you can always ask a Government Act or to do something. That is something that is a key amendment right. Its not just mentioned in the first it goes right to the heart of what the founders were looking at when they decided to set up a constitution and our First Amendment rights so doesnt matter if youre the president of the United States you can always ask Government Officials to do x or y. Exactly right there is a grievances portion of it on us as you really can consult you can contest and challenge but you cant conspire and doesnt the address of grievances and when youre asking an official to do something that is unlawful or outside of their Lawful Authority . I know these are all allegations and they have to be proven but if what they had said is true that would include not just a First Amendment free speech or political statements benign. It would include trying to get someone to do something unlawful. Thats beyond the First Amendment. In this case what theyve alleged its not be on the First Amendment. And im not saying what theyve alleged is true. Im just saying even if it was trueo conspiracy to do illegal act. And so when youre saying that congress is going to do this and i want them to do why actions instead of ex actions or want the Vice President to do a instead of b. That is not a conspiracy to do something illegal and the extent that you would say that it was. Thats a real problem to the statutes because they could actually be saying these prosecutors they may be getting way over their skis here and the statute itself could be unconstitutionally vague because its sweeping up illegal contact and would have a Chilling Effect on Freedom Of Speech in the right to position your government for a grievances. So, conspiracy charges are quite common. Obviously not against the former president. Someone say now and the coconspirators are charged in the caption. But that happens from time from time a severance cases. Youre not being tried together. But its not just the idea of saying id prefer you to do some red like this to be the case the case. The allegations of truth and must be proven actually go further than that. Mike pence suggested the pressure was far more than this benign a full slate of electors over various states. It includes the idea of providing fraudulent bases and documents to convince the ceremonial ruled to take place. Im hooked on an ocean to go beyond. Im with you on political speech. This goes far beyond that. It really doesnt go beyond that i really is just asking a Government Official to do something. And really i think there are some issues with what the prosecutors talk about mike pence saying. If you look at mike pences words and what he said time and time again it actually supports donald trump. I think mike pence if its ever gets to trial, i dont think it should but if it ever does make it to trial mike pence is gonna be a star witness for donald trump because what he has basically said time and time again as they may have had disagreements but there was a conversation that needed to happen. Donald trump thought that conversation about the votes belonging in the state legislator. On the advice of counsel. Member donald trump is doing this on advice of counsel. Mike pence thought that that should happen in the halls of congress. Thats perfectly acceptable. Im impactful points there. I think you can agree that you can just ask a person in office to do anything and it needs the First Amendment. I couldnt say a member of congress that i want them to be a hitman for someone that will go be on the ideas so there are some foundational issues with that. Number two i do want to play what mike pence had to say and im stunned at the notion that there be a thought that he might be a good witness on behalf of donald trump. Listen to what he had to say to clarify the points of play for you why i think he might not be in agreement with you. The day before january six if my memory serves as lawyers came back and said we want you to reject votes outright. They were asking me to overturn the election. I had no right to overturn the election. What i want the American People to know is that he was wrong then he was wrong now. I had no right to reject or return votes. So im giving you that look it doesnt really look like i put this person to make me look good. First of all i think its important to say what he said that and thats when his lawyers came and talked him about. As the Vice President said the lawyers came and asked him to do that everything Vice President trump did it was under the advice of counsel and talking about the 12th Amendment actually requires something that is up to legal debate and has been something that has been debated legally for over 125 years almost 150 years. So there are certainly questions about the 12th Amendment and its why you take legal advice. Why you ask lawyers in some cases its various teams lawyers from great law schools and law professors. What does the law require of us. President trump absolutely had a right to rely on what those lawyers told him. That brings me to the third point with the advice of counsel. Jesse it touches a really interesting dynamic when its advice of counsel defense. And you know advice of counsel defenses are not something that will generally rue the day however from my perspective it sets up the notion that you will have attorneys that will reach some sort of privilege in order to either confirm what trump is saying or contradict what he is saying that opens up a different pandoras box and youve seen it in the grand jury that weve had one lawyer that has had that attorneyclient privilege. And because your lawyers mean in the thing are you concerned that advice of counsel defense when you pick these two parties against each others not gonna bode well for donald trump . No im not worried about that at all. And you write theres always attorneyclient privilege issues in any litigation and certainly in a complicated piece of litigation that is huge constitutional ramifications like this one does. There are always those issues but i think in this case a reliance on Council Defense is extremely strong. Not only do you have the unprecedented nature of what was going on in 2020 during the elections and election taking place during a pandemic where the rules are changing on a regular basis, being able to rely on healers especially in cases like that is important. And i think it will be up to the trial team to decide that, for sure. But i think President Trump of a very strong reliance in Council Defense. Until maybe former Training General Counsel says its not our Deputy Attorney general and the list of lawyers who have very contrary notions. But theres a lot more to unpack. Im glad to see you and well talk again. I have a feeling it might go to trial. Thank you so much for having me. Lets get some perspective on all this and analyze it but first everyone just a short time ago on cnn Chris Christie the former new jersey government and our now many hopeful addressed trumps legal issues listen. There are always limits on free speech this is a classic you cant yell fire in a crowded theater. And by the way when you are a criminal defendant out on bail, lets focus on that thin he is now out on bail in three different jurisdictions. New york florida and washington d. C. I have a front runner in this race who is out on bail in three jurisdictions. What happens when you let out as that there are restrictions placed on you for you to stay out. One of the restrictions that was placed on him was no contact or intimidation of potential witnesses. He saying if you go after me im coming up for you, his lawyers are saying that that was a generalized political speech and not directed anyone. Of course thats what theyre gonna say because what they want to say is among at a campaign fee do that again. Do you think thats what they said privately to. When the lawyers that when i jump out the window having to defend some of the staff. Lets bring Associate Professor of law vita johnson former. Jenner six investigative counsel and cnn political commentator kristen saltese. National review editor who wants to jump out of the window. Now who are the lawyers . Chris he thinks that you are going to want to jump out of the window when it comes to this defense about one of them in particular that this was an aspirational request. That it was just sort of a if you feel like it wanted to do it. I think right now theyre just throwing everything at the wall seeing what will stick i think pence really hurts them particularly his statement that donald trump pulled a mere two honest because it certainly seems to suggest that donald trump himself wasnt being honest when he was saying that he won the 2020 election. So i think it really just testing other theories right now theyre ways away from trials are trying to figure what works. Of course theres a lot of conversation about what the First Amendment entails its more. Than just free speech does that hold water to you because certainly you can see trump saying well im actually doing that right now when im criticizing the judge in the prosecution. Why stop now thats all part of the First Amendment. Accuse words are regularly used against him and conspiracy cases. Here we have conspiracy to disenfranchise certain voters over the election. The former president s words are using that was pretty clever in the Special Counsel indictment that he had a whole section on the president s intent on what he shouldve known about the big lie the time. The former president deliberately disregarded the information. Might have been cabinet support evidence, rather than evidence of the crime itself. I think it does go into the notion of the advice of counsel. There were the bar and others who said i had the exactly opposite advice for you to have right now. Let me ask you this, kristen, because im a little stunned that you think that pence might be an ideal witness. What am i missing here . Im unsure why they think pence would be positive for them. If anything, they are just hoping that by mike pence being out there, mike pence has become a very unpopular figure in the republican party, and the extent that their primary objective is to try to win this in the court of Public Opinion, perhaps this sort of says, look, at the highest levels dont trump own lieutenants were not being loyal to him, or taking seriously his grievances about the election. What i think so much of this falls apart, and why im so frustrated every time this gets called the january six indictment, is that when you go to the argument about free speech, a lot of voters including a ton of Republican Voters will say you should be allowed to complain that you feel like the election was stolen from you. That should be fine. And what you cant do, and what the indictment is really about, is that you cannot call up the secretary of state of georgia and say finally 11,780 votes. That is not, hey will you look into something for me . That is a direct ask and goes beyond put goal. I would never smirk at christian, not at her, or just out of delight. I think that one of the things that were seeing, and pence is a great example of this, is how the distinction that we all so carefully guard between the law and politics is just melting away before our eyes. If trump attacks pence, is that Witness Intimidation where is that fighting a rival for the republican nomination . It seems to me that we now have a situation where trumps ways to get back to the white house, and his race to stay out of jail are the same thing. So judges are going to be constantly asked to make these incredibly uncomfortable choices. Because yes, any other defendant in this position, maybe they wouldve thrown the book at him, but not every defendant is running for president of the United States with a credible shot. To raise that point as well, many people may have thought that they think pence is going to be testifying in favor of trump. But just the fact that he would be there, and i have a visceral reaction as a voter to him, somebody might say you know what, the enemy of my enemy is my friend and if youre voting against him or youre testifying against, him its enough for me. But to your point, is it one in the same the court of Public Opinion and the court of law, here . That is what the Special Counsel is saying, that hes going to try the entire thing in this court of Public Opinion and not want to do it only in the courthouse. What is the danger of that . Well, one danger that i see is that a lot of people have taken action based on what they think donald trump wants them to do. So the buffalo shooter, the shooter in el paso texas, and the thousands of people being prosecuted for january six. Those are all people who took Donald Trumps words and tried to do what hes asking of them to really catastrophic results for the country. To be clear, some of what you have mentioned, the el paso shooter and the walmart shooter, trump would argue that i did not direct anyone to be involved in a mass shooting, i did not direct anyone to engage in gun violence to this degree. So how do you thread that needle . Of course, but a lot of his rhetoric, and absolutely agree that it is in many instances political rhetoric, gets taken to these really dangerous places. And so i totally understand why the Special Counsel here would be so concerned about the truth social posts that are going out to millions of americans. Marcus, what is your thought . That was a big part of investigation is looking at the power of the president s words. We looked at it with a standby for the proud boys. A lot of the witnesses were tracking what the president was saying on truth social or other social media platforms. I think you have to accept the fact that his words have power and carry weight with those who are going through be it with the Congressional Committee or the department of justice. Into a gun or so is to ignore reality. The hearing that might happen, it has to be more them about the protective order, which normally goes to the notion of whether or not they can still display and publicly put into the Public Square the information so we can read more about what is intent might be. The thought just pluck it because as this rhetoric becomes more inflammatory against the judge, we are now learning that she is getting more security. Plus, To Georgia Voters who are in the same suburb but living in two very different political realities, they are going to join me live. And, the olympics, the world cup, they are all supposed to unite americans, right . Will them why are so many conservatives cheering when usa womens soccer lost. We will tell you why and talk about it n next. Day lets paint. Right now, g get americas most trusted paint brand at a new low price. Behr. Only at the home depot. Oh, oh, oh. Ill be the judge of that. Oh, thats nice. Oh searchable, verified reviews. Thats better than the ham, and ive never said that. Booking. Com booking. Yeah vo ninetytwo percent of students in highneeds schools cant afford essential School Supplies. Subaru and our retailers are there to help by giving millions of dollars in funding along with School Supplies students need. We call it the Subaru Love Promise and we are proud to be the largest corporate supporter of adoptaclassroom. Org. Its just one of the reasons forbes ranked subaru the number one automotive brand for social impact. Subaru. More than a car company. Sometimes Jonah Wrestles with falling asleep. So he takes zzzquil. 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A comment over the weekend, trump took to truth social writing there is no way he could get a fair trial with that judge and would immediately ask for her to recuse herself. Back to the table now, i wonder, we have been following, what we would then call tweets, and then truth socials, social media more broadly. Weve been following it for a long time and not long ago we would say that this is hyperbole, pay no mind. Are we not passed that . The line that everybody used was that, should you take him seriously not literally, which is a great way for somebody to avoid accountability for anything that he says. Look, i think that we have seen from the very beginning of trumps political rise that words have consequences. Remember there, was back in 2015, two of his supporters attacked almost people in boston and trump was asked about it, well i have sat very passionate supporters. That was his response, that was the pattern established right away that there will be violent and then there will be excuses for it. So, you know, we cannot be shocked or surprised when trump indulges in irresponsible rhetoric. That is the core of who he is. A bit of a cop out though, right . When you think it is just him . Dont worry its just how he is. As a prosecutor or defense team, theyre going to have to guard against this because of people think thats just him, hes the guy who sort of hears about violent things or insights it in some way, there is no consequences, they might be more inclined to say, well, not on my watch. Going back to tweet at the time, looking as come up a lot in the indictment where President Trump came at pence for not having the courage of what he shouldve done on generosity. Look at the timeline of events, at 2 25, you see some of the most violent parts of the Capitol Attack unfold on west plaza, the east doors, rioters making their way to the house chamber, the House Chambers in the speakers lobby. I think the Special Counsel included that timeline purposely to show the power of the president s words without actually, you know, drawing that connection of his words having the power that they do. Is it falling on deaf ears . I dont know why when you think about the polling, when we talk about the slot, for some of it adds up to his most staunchest supporters as a big, okay, and what . I dont suspect that this kind of behavior will make a huge difference in the republican primary, but that is not necessarily no difference. I do believe that there is a small, but not nonexistent slice of Republican Voters who like Donald Trumps policies. They probably think the case against him is unfair and shouldnt have been brought. But if he keeps bringing pain upon himself, through obvious, unforced errors, dumb things like these truth social posts, things that have to be making his own lawyers pull their hair out, is there going to be a slow erosion . Its a pretty small slice of the republican electorate who goes we just have got to pick someone who doesnt keep trying to bring trouble on himself . It just doesnt make sense to speak out against the judge who may sentence to. As a Defense Attorney, that makes me want to cringe. It is just not a smart move, and so i cant really understand why he is doing it, except that he hopes he never gets to trial. On that point, and people say that hes being singled out and treated so differently than any other defendant, you know this quite well, as a Defense Attorney if one of your clients acted the way that he has just since this indictment and the arraignment, what would be the likely consequence in front of that judge for that average joe . Ive never appeared in front of judge chutkan, but it is just not a wise dispute out against witnesses, against the judge. When you are under that kind of scrutiny, absolutely you can get your conditions out released revoked if you Say Something as intimidating as i will come after you if you come after me. In a lot of instances, people have been locked up for much less. There is a lot going on and the court of Public Opinion, the court of law, it is all blowing together in one way. I dont know if its my contacts or the way we are right now. Well talk more about this everyone, thank you so much. And everyone stick around, the signs of the political divide in americas growing wider arm, going to talk with two voters in the same georgia suburb. And we have got two very different political views and we stand by them. We are back. Plus, a mens soccer legend now saying the womens team, he called them unlikable because of their activism. 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Its amazing what real food can do. Well, we hear more and more that americans are living in an alternate political reality, says a 2024 president ial campaign is kicking fast into gear. And theres also new gallup polling that shows just how stark the divide really is. In 2003, democrats and republicans, they are only about seven points apart about whether the federal government has too much power, with democrats saying they did. Now the parties, get this, are 42 points apart. The same divide with the climate crisis, yet nearly nine in ten democrats saying they are worried about global warming, but only about a third of republicans say the same. On the issue of abortion, well, democrats moving 27 in the direction that it should be legal under any circumstances since 2003. Republicans have dropped in that same period of time to 12 . Now, these big shifts are noticeable, not just nationally, but at the local level as well. Like in places like cobb county, georgia, outside of atlanta where the vote for the republican and democratic nominees flipped from 55 supporting mitt romney in 20 12 to 56 going for joe biden in 2020. So you have to wonder, what it must be like to live in a county where these changes are happening so quickly and in realtime. And now, really, little more than a year away from the next president ial election. To talk about it im joined by two cobb county residents, republican voter and House District chairman for west called, gerry ramsey and democratic voter and School Board Candidate for the Cobb County School board, laura judge. Glad to see both of you here, thank you for joining. Let me begin with you, jerry. Im intrigued by this dynamic of what it must be like to have this happen so quickly and in the same county, but, you know i know that you said in the past that you dont believe that these indictments are sound, that they are fair, that the investigations are not affair in your mind. There is a number of other republican candidates who are running who dont have, maybe the same legal, political baggage as trump. Why do you support him nonetheless . Well i own five corporations, i used to be a stockbroker for five years, and i have been pretty much interested in businesses. The reason that i got on the trump team in the first places that i supported several other people initially, but i realized that this country is a huge Multinational Corporation and i looked at all the other candidates, and i look at the candidates right now, none of them could run a lemonade stands. Trump has been running mega corporations is all life, and thats why i got on his team. He can fix the problems that the democrats have caused. Everything we have, everything that we buy food, gas that is doubled in two years. Its ridiculous, i dont know out anybody could possibly do that, but i havent said that, i talked to somebody wise argue truck detailed today and they why are prices so high, because youve got somebody doesnt know how to run things. I never say anything bad about mr. Biden, i just say maybe you should look its interesting to think about the political aspect and the Policy Choices that you believe in with the Business Argument that you say that he has. Laura, let me turn to you because i wonder if you think that biden is a Strong Enough candidate to beat trump or really any other revolving candidate . Yes, i do think he is a Strong Enough candidate. Tell me why you think he is because there are many who will look at, for example would jerry had to say with the notion of this country being like and Multinational Corporation. People who quibble about whether trump does have the Business Savvy that he proclaims to have, but do you think that biden in the last two years has demonstrated that he can overcome the kind of comments that jerrys just made . I do. I believe that we are in an era where voters are now being informed by a second and Third Party Opinions than we are that those are actually involved in the process. So i think about its important that each of us learn how to make our own critical decisions about those candidates and, importantly, seek information from credible sources, not just our friends or social media. From what i have seen of the biden administration, i believe that he is a Strong Enough candidate. On the credible sources, you, know you think about how weve had these Echo Chambers Jerry and laura, and people are really looking at times to preach to their own choir, they want to put on the robe, they want to be able to make sure that they have that confirmation bias. I agree with you, i want to hear you, if you agree with me. And one in issue in particular that seems to keep coming up and were talking about these echo chambers, is, jerry, the area of culture wars. The Culture War Issues as they are known. I know that you focused basically on business owners, but republicans are really focusing these days on the socalled Culture War Issues and not so much on what you described as maybe a priority for you in choosing a candidate, is that a winning argument for you . That emphasis on these culture wars . Well, i think most of the people that i talked to, and like i said, i try not to tell people who do vote for i just asked them do you like paying 6 a gallon for diesel in gasoline, because the prices of gasoline and fuel controls the price of everything. Else it controls the price of hamburger because hamburger is moved three and four times from one point to the other, it keeps driving the price up. Look at the Interest Rates now. People are going to have a hard time buying houses. People right now that i talked to, they are interested in good schools for the kids, theyre interested in lower prices, close to the border, secure national defense, most people that i talked to never talk to me about abortion, religion, i try to avoid those subjects because everybody has an opinion. Interesting about that, when you just outlined the things that youre most concerned about i couldnt help but think that these are all the topics that are not being discussed or heard by the majority of the other rnc hopefuls in the race, because there is so much conversation around what is happening with the legal trials and tribulations of one donald trump. Could that impact your focus on this race if you cannot hear more about other candidates, including donald trump. Does that hurt your views of any of them if you cant really hear the topics like that . You know, i have been following this campaign, i didnt even know what politics were into 2015 and no to precinct was. A final phase where that was and then as i started learning more still, i started to listen to all of these debates and i heard all these guys talk before and, like i said, trump is the only guy who can turn this country around. We are in serious shape, i can tell you right now, people might not believe it but im writing a book right now. The chinese are trying to destroy this country, will have to take over the United States, and so theyre doing things to cause disruption, they are causing me and laura to have two different points of view. We probably agree on 80 of the staff, but we have a few disagreements, but there are people outside the influences and i am 100 convinced that the chinese are trying to disrupt things in this country and cause this consternation, im going to be honest with you. Laura, im not sure about the book youre focusing on, but there certainly have been a lot of conversations with respect to china, whether it is discussions on tiktok or in terms of the economy, or the global average and beyond. It certainly has come up. Were not hearing as much about that, as i said to jerry, because of the conversations rolling around donald trump and other areas, but i wonder, laura, on that point that he said. Lets end it here on this. You know, you are in the same county you and jerry. You are running for the school boards, you certainly hear a lot about what the people in your community really care about. I am a parent, i think about what is happening at the school board level in particular. Do you think that there is more Common Ground between you and Republican Voters in the community then there are differences . Absolutely. I think that the biggest thing, as we talk about the legal implications that you have been talking about on this show is that we want a secure election and we want to trust the election system. I think both jerry and i can both agree with that and so, as someone who is on the ticket in the 2024 election, it is extremely important to me and voters that they feel secure about that process and that they trust the election system. I see jerry nodding, is are going to end on an agreement. To have that Common Ground and hopefully that you will both believe that it is a fair and free election. I know georgia is under the microscope for a lot of reasons and has been for sometime. Jerry ramsey, laura judge, thank you so much. Thank you. So, the question now is is it wrong for Many Americans to root against the United States womens soccer team . The vitriol is intense tonight. Rachel nichols and asieh joins me live to discuss. Plus, the brawl that turned racial and he was really seen this by now. What is the real story behind this, social media is lighting up over this chaotic scene. Your best defense against erosion and cavities is strong enamel nothing beats it. New pronamel active shield actively shields the enamel to defend against erosion and cavities. I think that this product is a gamechanger for my patients it really works. Oh, booking. Com somewhere, anywhere. I just want to lie motionless in a chair booking. Com, booking. Yeah julians about to learn that free food is a personal eating trigger. No, it isnt. sigh yes, it is. And thats just a bit of Psychology Julian learned from noom weight. Sign up now at noom. Com. Tens of thousands of customers wrote about carvana being easy in their five star reviews, including eric. The whole process was really simple and easy, and this is my third time selling to carvana. So i can practically do it from memory now. You just enter your License Plate or your vin, answer a few questions. Boom, you get a real offer. True story. Its still shocking how easy it was to sell my car to carvana. Sell your car to carvana today. So, when american athletes are on the world stage, they use to unite america. I think everyone would start cheering for. Thats a u. S. Womens soccer team felt in the world cup over the weekend while Many Americans are instead cheering their loss. I am thrilled that they lost. Good. Im glad you went down. You do not support america, i do not support you. Me doesnt stop there, some post call them entitled, ungrateful, woke pieces of trash, others ripped Megan Rapinoe, others criticize their actions during national anthem. Donald trump jumped on the hate train blaming joe biden and saying the country is going to. I want to give and Rachel Nichols host of headlines of Rachel Nichols on showtime along With Cnn Political Commentator se cupp. Beginning with you rachel, there has been lots of from conservatives around this loss and many people who would be talking about america first, why do you think this is the reaction for this team in particular . I think its two separate buckets here. I know the human nature of someone you dont, like if someone whos angered, you are offended, you are you just dont care for them, and they stumble in some way having satisfaction over that, lets be, honest people do that in their daily lives. Politically, people on the left do that too and its not just a province of the right in the country. But, that is very different than what we heard in some of these other comments which, were they lost cause they were woke. They lost because of their political beliefs. That is where i get to, make its makes sense, because its the implication that Megan Rapinoe had a penalty kick, a few inches over the goal post because she was im trying to figure out distracted by the fact that four years ago she did not visit donald trump in the white house . What are we saying, how does being woke in the way that criticism is mean that they were losing a soccer game . A very competitive soccer game against one of the best teams in the world. The idea of accusing them of being woke or pieces of trash, or ungrateful, is strange to me in it of of self only within the number one issue, the Biggest Issue for this womens soccer team over and over again is that they wanted equal pay for equal work. They in fact founded particularly that they are much more successful than the mens team and still were not getting paid as well as them. So, if that is the chief thing that they have represented over and over again, and that is the problems of some of the politicians have with them, what are they saying to the women in their own party . I just do not understand. It again, make it make sense. I heard you clear your throat, i know you want to interject. Go for it. Rachel is right on the main, and for idas ugly on anyone. But, the opposition to Megan Rapinoe and the womens soccer team is not over their demands for parity and equal pay, and that is not why Meghan Rapinoe kneels during the anthem. She was real clear about why she does that. She does that in protest of American Civil Rights abuses, along with colin kaepernick, she says she kneels with him. She says she does that for people of color and for her lgbtq community. Now, agree with that or disagree with that, when you become an activist, that you know comes with consequences. Its sometimes people wont like you, and sometimes you lose money or contracts. Look at colin kaepernick. So, the unamerican thing kind of cuts both ways. You can see theres an american to root for it seemed to lose, and i certainly hope all of our American Teams win overseas. But, i think there was a perception that it was pretty unamerican in a foreign country to neil during our anthem. I can understand that side of it too, putting the politics completely aside. The action i understand that bothered some people, and listen i have interviewed dozens of athletes who have taken activists stands on all kinds of issues, and they will all tell you, it is a risk, it is when they all made and were happy to make. It comes with some great benefits to your community, you get your message out there but it comes with risks that people will not like your message. You know, those are consequences. Rachel, whats your reaction to that . Obviously there are consequences, there are risks to, it and they wonder what it looks like on the world stage. I totally agree with that, completely. Its just the connection to the loss because of their political beliefs. That is what weve seen a lot of politicians saying today. That is the part i dont understand. It just does not make sense to me. I cover sports for a living and ive never seen anyone lose an athletic contests because of their political beliefs. So, i understand the urge to get your base worked up, i understand the idea of not liking someone and im glad you lost, and they definitely understand what s. E. Is saying about, hey if you get into the arena be prepared to be have people building you in the arena. I do not understand the last part of the equation we saw over and over again today, because that is not how sports work. Why does this have legs, why is it a Talking Point even though its been a logical . Well, its lazy, and lazy works, especially when it comes to political messaging. You make it simple. So, rachel totally right there is a weird non connection between losing and being woke, but there is this overarching theme in modern conservatism that your wokeness makes you weak. Wokeness is making our military week. Wokeness is making every one week. Theres Anti Feminist Treatise now in modern conservative circles about heise per masculinity and making men masculine again. So, its a crime that is part of the political conversation and rightwing circles. So, im not surprised to hear it. But, surely, when you try to parse it apart and make sense of it, its a very tenuous connection. Well, Rachel Nichols, se cupp, thank you for making this make sense. Also, everyone, just in speaking of things that you might find completely nonsensical. A restaurants now have been issued in this massive brawl that you see happening in alabama that eventually than devolved along racial lines. See what happens. 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