Transcripts For CSPAN Hearing On Work In Retirement 20240622

Again to an impossibly distant 2015. , the year that film comes to mind as i think about the changes we are seeing in how seniors approach work and retirement, the topic of todays hearing. For most of the past century, seniors have been withdrawing as americansforce came to view retirement as a time of uninterrupted rest and leisure that could last for decades. Ofthe year 2000, only 32 werecans age 55 and older still working, and the average age of retirement had dropped to just 63, but the babyboom generation has reversed this trend. Today, 40 of workers 55 and older remain in the workforce, a ratio not seen since the eisenhower administration. Remainingoomers are in the workforce longer for many reasons, but one leading reason is the need for Financial Security. Many americans today dont have the resources they need to live comfortably and retirement without working. It used to be said that Retirement Security was a threelegged stool, the first leg being an employerprovided pension, the second Social Security, and the third retirement savings. Estimated 7. 7 trillion gap between what 3264 have saved, and what they were actually need for retirement, that third leg has become wobbly, and a fourth leg continued work has been added to the stool. Experts tell us that the reengagement of seniors in the come ate could not have a better time for our economy. According to Human Resources professionals, 40 of the u. S. Employers are struggling to fill jobs with qualified workers and could face a crisis if they lose their Older Workers. Employers dont need these workers just to fill positions. They also need their talent, Institutional Knowledge, and especially their strong work ethic. Compared to younger employees, with all due respect to my staff, workers aged 55 and older are significantly more engaged in their work. In fact, and engaged workforce is so important to the bottom company could improve its profits by 150 its entireear if workforce were as engaged as Older Workers, according to the aarp. As we will hear from our Witnesses Today, financial needs are not the only reason that baby boomers want to continue working. They also want to stay active, mentally and physically. Working also helps seniors state socially connected and preserve a strong sense of purpose and selfworth. More than half of this generation who do retire return to the workforce after just a few years. The break to catch their breath and retool, sometimes for less stressful work. Retirees can rely on Social Security, medicare, and other sources of retirement income, they have the flexibility to pursue work on their own terms. Taking a break from the workforce is not without risks. Seniors may find that their skills have become out of date and that they have lost touch with key contacts and business trends. Some of them face unspoken and misguided bias that is difficult to prove, but widely reported. Whatever the reason, it takes twice as long for a senior to find a new job than it does for a younger person. The job hunt can be especially tough on workers laid off late in their careers. As this generation heads back to the workforce, employers who want to attract and keep Older Workers should recognize that many return to work because they want to, not just because they have two. These workers are looking for Flexible Workplaces where they can continue to contribute and theirre are skills skills will be via your our Witnesses Today have a wealth of where there are skills will be valued. Our Witnesses Today have a wealth of knowledge. I look forward to their testimony today. I am now very pleased to turn to our Ranking Member for her statement. Thank you. I want to thank you for holding this hearing. I sad to say from looking at the numbers that it appears to me that most of us on this committee would be deemed Older Workers. The most recent aarp study defines an older worker as over 50. Except for tom cotton. I can see him over there. Hes too young. Hes gloating. Recent aarp study defines an older worker over 50. I reluctantly confessed to meeting that threshold easily. I think our own personal experiences can add expertise to this conversation in terms of our capacity to grow and change over time. Many of us baby boomers are doing with a much different landscape than we are are dealing with a much different landscape here we are a competitive bunch, so i have trouble with this concept that we cannot adapt to stay relevant in todays economy. Study, a Business Case for workers age 50 and above, goes a long way to debunk this myth along with many others. Workersn nine in 10 over 50 have a computer, tablet, or smart phone, and those numbers have been growing significantly in the last three years alone. Fewer than one in five seniors surveyed felt they had trouble keeping up with the technology, so dont tell me that you cant teach an older dog new tricks, and ultimately that Older Workers cost too much. Due to the shifts and our pension systems away from defined benefit, adding a worker over 50 is not that much different to a companys bottom line than adding younger workers , according to the aarp. The fact of the matter is that our workforce is getting older. Onender a decade, more than in three workers will be older than 50. In missouri today, more than one in five workers is 55 and older. Its true, some Older Workers want to stay employed to feel productive and challenged. , i hasten americans to say that i believe the majority of americans are doing so out of necessity. This is a new era of retirement. Few people have that pension check for life, and instead must set aside their own money. Longer life spans means retirement that could last for decades. , so it is no wonder that Older Americans are a bit nervous to stop working altogether. The Smart Companies have party figured out that the changing and have developed ways to capitalize on the skills and experience this large group of workers can bring to the table. One of those companies is represented here today, and i dont know if im going to pronounce this right. Is that right . They have for years recognize that it makes no sense to see its best and brightest workers whenout the door at age 55 most nurses tend to leave the hospital floor. They havethis, developed a retirement system that deploys these workers in a variety of roles. Adjusted their benefits packages of these Older Workers could not be penalized for reducing hours. Today, the program is so successful that it works across demographics. Of Flexible Work schedules is good not just for the older worker, but for the reservist, the mother, or any other employee who cannot work a full 40 hour schedule, but still brings ease tension skills to the job. As as in health care offers its own retirement system allowing health care offers its own retirement system. Hundreds of employees have taken advantage of this plan. I should also point out that viableorking longer is a option for those seeking to build a retirement, it is not the answer for everyone. We should recognize that some people have spent years working jobs that are so physically demanding that asking them to do any kind of work into their 70s is not realistic. To developed to work strategies for this group of workers, but that should not stop us from exploiting more ways to help Older Workers stay engaged and continue to earn an income if they so choose. With that in mind, i look forward to hearing the testimony from todays panel, and i think all of you for being here. Thank you very much for your testimony. I will confess before this entire room that it was the Ranking Member who convinced me that i had to get an iphone. We are also pleased to be joined by the person who is the youngest member of the senate, is that accurate . It is, but i am old and. In spirit. First we will hear from our panel. Herrecently retired from position as a Strategic Policy advisor for the aarp and is now a consultant specializing working in aging issues. Susan, then hear from the owner of a specialty handbag dexter,located in rural maine. She will testify that her over in a, starting experiencend her employing an older workforce, and i particularly want to thank her for traveling down from maine to be with us today. From, we will hear kerry, an off the, New York Times columnist, and contribute editor for forbes. We welcome james goodwin, the Vice President of then resources from Virginia Health system. Thank you for being with us today. We look forward to hearing from you. Chairman and Ranking Member, for inviting to testify today about the challenges and opportunities involved in prolonging working life. Prolonged employment stands to benefit employers facing labor and skill shortages and the economy. It can also greatly enhance the Retirement Security of workers and their families by increasing Social Security benefits by as giving 8 a year by workers more time to save and benefit from a 401 k match, if offered, and by reducing the number of years spent in unless supplement to income needed for retirement years. Remainingers are longer and the workforce. One statistic highlights this point. Workers 6569, traditionally thought of as therement age, participation great has arisen from 18 in 1985 to nearly 32 in 2014, or by over 70 . Any singleredit policy or program for hire participation rates at older ages. The older population is extremely diverse and response in different ways to different incentives and disincentives. Rising Educational Attainment a majorm to be determinant accounting for perhaps half of the increase in participation among older men, according to one study. To 80 of workers say they expect to work in retirement, and we just heard some of the reasons. They need the money, but they also enjoy what they are doing. They want to remain active. They hope to make a contribution. Yet far fewer workers actually remain in the labor force than say they expect to because of job loss, ill health, and caregiving responsibilities. Others may be unable to find the opportunities that could keep them at work, less demanding good new career options, parttime jobs, and more Flexible Work schedules, for example. When to retire is a decision over which workers have some total control, but more than they have over the stock market or housing values. Exercising the controlled by working longer is what i think we have been seeing, including during the recent recession when Labor Force Participation rates rose for Older Workers, but fell for younger ones. Employers however have considerable say in what workers can and will do. On the plus side, employers tend to be very positive about Older Workers when it comes to attributes such as loyalty, dependability, customer relationships, and the like. On the minus side, Many Employers harbored negative attitudes about Older Workers costs and technological competence. The new aarp survey just mentioned may alleviate some of those concerns about costs and performance. Moreover, if employers need workers, they will do what is retain anto obtain adequate supply, and that will include drawing upon what is available, older people ready and eager to work. Just what policy initiatives would encourage more employment at older ages and is scalable, costefficient manner, and in a way that does not pay for generations against one another is not so obvious. I offer several suggestions, and there are many others in addition. If i could identify only one this afternoon, it would be to promote older worker Skills Development to ensure that those workers have the qualifications they need to find work, change jobs or careers, or reenter the labor force after retirement. This means more money for the nations Workforce Development system as well as monitoring older worker outcomes under the opportunity act. In addition, it is also incumbent upon us to promote Lifelong Learning to make sure workers doows older not face the same barriers that todays workers do. I said just that we might be well served by taking stock of what we know and do not know about what actually fosters longer work life, so that appropriate policies can be crafted to achieve our objectives. Forall conclude an appeal more funding for the department of labor to how best incentive i Older Workers to work longer, and more employers to hire and retain them. Thank you. Thank you very much for your excellent testimony. Chairman and Ranking Member, distinction member. Tonk you for inviting me testify. I am the owner of a Small Manufacturing Company and maker of handbags. I grew up in rural maine in an agricultural community. Like many of my peers, i left home for college and employment. I settled in the newark city area and build a life with a family in several successful businesses. It had always been my intention to return home to maine. And i packedusband up and headed north, planning to retire. Boston. Ed outside of year later, i saw a display of handbags in the gallery. The bright colors and quirky shapes amended investigation. The facility was in an old barn in the middle of a cornfield in the middle of nowhere. As soon as i walked in, i was hooked, the smell of letter leather, bright roles of fabric, it was mesmerizing. The company had fallen into disrepair and was poorly managed. I knew i can fix it. I bought the company in 2013. Asset purchase, i inherited a group of older women. If i move the company to far, they would be unemployed. 69, so i felt an obligation to find a solution that did not leave them behind. We moved one town over to dexter, maine. Warren buffett had improved most of the infrastructure for dexter shoes, so we had reliable road for upsnd a trucks to drive on. The equipment needed updating, and the new space gave me the opportunity to design more ergonomic workplace for my workers. Me,questions are asked at do Older Workers calls more . Older workers cost different. I had to take into consideration my Older Workers when purchasing equipment. Many stitching places have machines that require workers to. Tand at the machine an older worker has a difficulty with this style of equipment. The equipment i purchased was this costly, but lead to a better product and production time. The second question i get asked is, is it hard to train an older worker . Are they to set in their own ways . The image of an old dog comes to mind and i have to laugh. When did we become all dogs . The answer is, no, its not hard to teach an older person. I have found that an older worker is quick to us in light ideas in part because they have a larger set of experiential Building Blocks on which to pen a new concept. Whospect that an old dog does not like new tricks was once a young dog that had an aversion to new tricks. Stay mentally active was my primary reason for starting a new career. I recognize the importance of this and created a workplace that is more studio than factory. Each bag is made one at a time by one person. This gives each person a variety of duties and creates ownership and pride in their work. An older worker tends to be more balanced in their personal life. Work is important, but it does not dominate. Each employee sets their own hours, a benefit that cost me very little and goes a long way to making a better workplace. My employees are paid hourly, not by the peace. They get sick days, holidays, and vacation. And have a massage therapist come in once a month. Dictates theessity need to work for most of my employees. About the longevity of Social Security and health care costs. We are a small company, but you can find our handbags throughout the country in galleries, museums stores, and some national parks. E are an older group it is a workplace that includes Older Workers, more balance, more interesting. I dont know what role it any government should play in this issue. It is certainly worth discussing. For now, we will make our handbags and learn from one another old too young, and young to old. Thank you for being my testimony. Thank you very much for your testimony. I understand that you have one of your handbags with you. I do, but its not the pretty one. You are welcome to put it out there. We should have asked you to bring in display. Speaking of technology. Always a step ahead. That is impressive. S. Hannan thank you for inviting me to testify before the committee on aging and for focusing your attention on the challenges americans over 50 face in the workplace. I has spent three decades , careers,usinesses and personal finance, and i am alarmed by the disconnect between employers and Older Workers. Work at an older age is becoming increasingly common. Some retirees have always taken parttime jobs out of financial need or to shore up financial retirement accounts. What is different now is that todays baby boomers are either working much longer were approaching work, not as an afterthought, but as a pillar of their retirement plan. The numbers tell the story. In 1991, 11 of workers expected to retire after age 65, according to the Employee Benefit Research Institutes 2015 Retirement Confidence survey. Today, more than three times that number expect a retired after age 65. 10 dont plan to retire. Theyhirds of workers say plan to work for pay and retirement. Here is the hitch, many workers say they are going to work in retirement, but a very small percentage do. Ay can make a huge difference. I suspect that one of the reasons why people arent continuing to work is they cant find a job, and they give up. As i travel around the country speaking to audiences of people over 50 who are looking for jobs , i see a palpable fear in their eyes that they are going to outlive their money. They need to work. When it comes to getting a job, its a struggle. I will not sugarcoat it. Here is what it i find and advise. An employer is concerned that an older worker isnt up for the job, that they dont have the stamina and energy. A lot of people come up to me and say, do i need to get botox, dye my hair to look younger . I say, no, you need a fitness program. You need to be physically fit. It is one of the best things you can do. You give up a cando spirit goes a long way. Another thing employers worry about is that you are not up to technology. They might be right. I encourage workers to take courses at a Community College or local library to ramp it up. Learning is imperative if you want to stay relevant in the workplace. The third thing we will worry about is that you arent going to play nicely with the other kids. By that, i mean younger workers, or be comfortable with the younger boss. That is quite possible. It is about fitting in the culture. You need to go out of your way to show that you have a great multi generational work relationship. Employers will also worry that you are overqualified for the job you are applying for, not happy with the salary that you can offer, and resent it in time. It is a stark reality. Many Older Workers i know who do find work over to work at lower salaries than they had with her last employer. Sometimes Older Workers up to start their own businesses or switch careers. Money is the biggest stumbling block. You will have to start off at a lower salary, and if youre starting your own business, you have the cost of start up and wont be able to pay yourself a salary, so you really need to be financially fit before you start down that path. To nots remind workers give up, to think of ways that they can redeploy their skills to other fields and to not get stuck trying to replicate their old jobs. In there opportunities nonprofit arena, health care with small associations, where your expertise is valued. If you are out of work, do something. Keep your resume alive by volatile caring for a cause you care about. You never know who you might need. Your work could even turn into a fulltime job. Be willing to take on a contract or consulting job, because it can fill those employment gaps on your resume. Aside, working gives us something to get up in the morning for, a sense of purpose, feeling connected, and needed. Work makes us feel relevant. In fact, studies show a cute is healthier and keeps her mind sharper. I could go on, but my time is up. I want to thank the committee for inviting me to be here today. Thank you so much for your testimony. Mr. Goodwin. Good afternoon. Mr. Godwin on behalf of the more than 13,000 employees of bon secours Virginia Health system, i thank you for the opportunity to share insights on how we attract and retain Older Workers. My name is jim godwin and im the Vice President of Human Resources at bon secours. Today i want to share with you why we value the knowledge and expertise of old workers in how they contribute to our success in our culture. As a Roman Catholic Nonprofit Health care system, bon secours is part of the Maryland Health care system. Bon secours virginia has 8400 employees in richmond and 5000 employees in hampton roads, virginia. With five hospitals in the richmond area, three in hampton roads, dozens of an military care sites and support centers along with a college of nursing and school of medical imaging, we take our mission of providing good help to those in need to heart. The sisters of bon secours started our ministry in paris and remain a Guiding Force of our values and vision. Nearly all the sisters are 60 years old or older and many continue serving well into their 80s and 90s, providing Strategic Direction and guidance. Workers of this age are common and we celebrate their vision, wisdom, and contributions. In our Virginia Health system, 35 of our employees are 50 or are in their 60s. We have 126 employees in their 70s, and a remarkable 12 in their 80s. Some 82 of our workforce is female and more than one third are nurses. We value each employee in his or her unique qualities and life experiences. We believe our Older Workers wisdom and Institutional Knowledge are invaluable could let me tell you about our longterm employees. Them terms 81 this year and has worked for us for an amazing 58 years so far, starting in 1957. She tried retirement for a few months but her respect and compassion for her back. After six decades, she still works parttime in preplacement, connecting physicals, drawing blood, and helping to induct new employees into our workplace. Our oldest employees virginia avenue. Virginia is 89 years old and celibate 29 years of service this year. Incredible work stamina from what is so amazing about virginias cheated not even come to work for us until she was 60 years old. Yet she has been with us almost 30 years. We have five employees with 49 years of service. Clearly work is the new fountain of youth for many of these employees. Former high school administered and a professional firefighter both recently graduated from the Bon Secours Memorial College of nursing with bachelors degrees in nursing. Both of these men are over 50 years old and are enjoying second careers in our Health System could another recent graduate was 62 years old. To ourours is committed culture that attracts, retains, and values workers that are over 50 years old. In fact, aarp has ranked us as the best employer for workers over 50 since 2003. We have been on working mother magazines top places to work and added to the International Listing of great workplaces annually since 2007. These accolades benefit bon secours because we are able to attract and retain a highly engaged workforce of all ages and lifestages. This directly benefits our patients, who have better care expenses and rate is higher on Patient Satisfaction surveys. Let me show you how experienced nurses benefit patient care. The Robert Wood Johnson Foundation Reports that our on average are spending 2. 5 times ers did in ther pe 1980s and 1990s. That is a good thing for bon secours. We need them to as nurses age higher job satisfaction, much higher than other professions. That means there is more baby as more baby boomer nurses age, they are more likely to be satisfied and keep working. That is invaluable when it comes to patient care and patient safety. However, working in a hospital setting can be hard on nurses due to the physical challenge. Are much heavier than they were in the past and have your patients mean more workers prone to injury. That is why we have limited mobility lift teams to healthy Older Workers with the regular turning of patients. We have seen a reduction of muscle fatigue in older nurses as a result. Our workforce is changing and working hard to adjust to the changes. America continues to face a nursing shortage. Finding the right nurses for the right jobs at the right time remains difficult. We are going to need to keep our Health Care Employees satisfied with their careers because the demand for health care is growing. At the same time, people are living longer and healthier lives, and the majority of u. S. Workers are delaying their retirement. By offering initiatives such as phased retirement, Flexible Work schedules come intergenerational programming, has been successful in retaining its valuable Older Workers. Today we have 100 virginia employees to which you receive a retirement check and a paycheck for us. Benefits aresive flexible and our onsite Family Centers are a good example where we allow employees to have their grandchildren in the Daycare Centers as well as their parents. We have eldercare programs that benefit Older Workers in the Sandwich Generation where they are having to provide care for their parents as well as often for their children or the children who have returned home after graduating from college. In closing, i remind you to remember employees of bon secours virginia, like 89yearold virginia added, who was a wonderful lady, people who working beyond their retirement age allow us to keep our mission viable and alive and thank you for the opportunity to share our story today. Sen. Collins thank you, mr. Godwin. You mentioned in your testimony that you had run a number of other businesses before you return home to maine. I am assuming that those businesses probably had a younger workforce than the workforce that you now employ. Is that true or not necessarily . Ms. Nordman thats true, but ive never hired on the basis of age or anything. I always try and get employees who are going to have fit into the team. A good seveni had employees in one company, and we really did run the gamut of twentysomethings all the way up to 55 was probably the oldest. At that time. Sen. Collins with older employees, do you find there is less turnover . Ms. Nordman less turnover, less xting, less boyfriend drama. [laughter] sen. Collins all advantages of hiring of an older worker, no doubt about it. Did you have less turnover and spending less on retraining . Ms. Nordman i am spending less on retraining when you bring a person into a tiny group, it takes a lot of wiggling for that person to settle in and become part of the group did the better i can retain a worker, the better it is for the company come which is why it takes me so long to hire. Process for me is at least three weeks because i want the right person. Sen. Collins thank you. Skill development programs, and if you and ms. Hannon have mentioned the importance of Skill Development, but several Skill Development programs are aimed at young workers. We have excellent apprenticeship programs, for example, that are aimed at people who are just coming out of Community Colleges for technical schools. We have other programs that tend to be aimed at people who are younger. And yet it may well be that an older worker, particularly one who has been out of the workforce for a while and has hannonlty, as ms. Pointed out, in coming back into the workforce, may need a refresher on their skills or entirely new skills. Maine, where we have had paper mills closed down, and people have worked for decades making very good paper and they are excellent papermakers, but that is what they have done their whole lives, and their frequency in the 50s and all of this is in their face with having to switch careers. Interested in any comments that each of you might have on current federal programs or other programs that you may be aware of, and whether they do a good job of helping Older Workers. One that i know of in the department of labor is called the Senior Community Service Employment program, and it seems that lower income individuals, aged 55 or older, but it has been pretty criticized for a number of reasons. Do either of you have any for us as we look at federal job Training Programs . I will start with dr. Rix and go to ms. Hannon. And im going to ask you to turn on your might. Thank you. Ms. Rix you mentioned one of the federally funded Training Programs for Older Workers. You are quite correct that we have not invested the federal. Esources in Older Workers it it appeared they were singled out in the Job Training Partnership act. For example, there was a special set aside for Older Workers that did not make into the workforce investment act and they have been singled out once again as a group with a special barriers to employment in the workforce innovation opportunity act. We need to do what i would recommend is more older worker specialists in the American Job Centers that could help Older Workers be directed toe programs in the community that would provide them with the appropriate skills. Im not suggesting that the federal government set up special programs along the lines of the Senior Community Service Employment program, but rather, make the Financial Resources available to workers through the job centers or through other mechanisms along with the guidance that workers need about where the jobs are going to be and what type of training they need to obtain in order to get those jobs. A big problem that workers have faced in the job training environment is that they often engage in training, often using their own hardearned resources, only to find that those training opportunities lead nowhere as far as jobs are concerned. We have to start at a very basic level, understanding what the labor Market Opportunities are in a particular area, namely, what the jobs are, what they are going to be, working closely with employers, job training providers, and Government Entities with the resources to help Older Workers and indeed workers of all ages know what they need to do to get what they want to find, good, secure employment providing decent jobs and benefits. Sen. Collins thank you. Ms. Hannon . Ms. Hannon i agree with dr. Rixs points there. The big thing is helping Older Workers identify the skills they have. They have been there for years and they dont even see what they are good at anymore. The Onestop Career Centers often have coaching available there. A lot of individuals i have talked to find that working with the coach actually helps them identify skills that they had come and how they can redeploy those. Get some confidence and lifted them out of the depression that they often fall into. It is a very important resource. If we could expand that to a certain degree in those centers, employers, if someone currently holds a tax incentive to offer Educational Assistance to employees is often a nice thing, if not all employers offer that, it is not a huge number, but i do believe that employees have access to even education that they can pay for with dollars that arent taxed, it could be fantastic to encourage that because you have to continue motivating the learning cycle in order to move into these jobs. As we have discussed here, the Certificate Programs are terrific but some of them lead nowhere so you need to be cautious about people taking the path for our click hit to learn a new skill. I find it is important to where these opportunities are going to be, and the department of labor has the occupational handbook, which i like a lot. The identify the Fastest Growing industries, things that are coming down the road, and they spell out what certifications you need to do this job. What is the median salary . It gives workers some starting point. It is great research. Sen. Collins thank you. Senator mccaskill. Sen. Mccaskill thank you. Let me ask first, mr. Goodwin, is your culture of flexibility born out of necessity due to the nursing shortage, or did it happen organically because the recognition of the organization of the skills that were walking out the door . Mr. Godwin well, the shortages of healthcare workers in general, not just nurseries, but healthcare employers across the nation to be more flexible. It is somewhat easier to be flexible for us because we have of types ofvariety jobs and schedules and so forth. In health care we have historically had a mostly female workers, and because of how things were in the and 1950s and so forth, we had to be in a position to work around School Schedules and so forth. That effectively train that flex ability transcends all aspects of our workforce. Being flexible helps Older Workers and it helps National Guardsmen and also some other sen. Mccaskill right. Mr. Godwin it is organic and adsense. In that sense. Sen. Mccaskill it seems like the flex ability at Work Schedules has become much more purple and last decade, but still, theres a lot of excitement of our economy out there that have not recognized the validity of flexibility. I noticed, ms. Nordman, you have flexibility for your workers in terms of the schedules. How many employees do you have right now . Ms. Nordman we have 10 employees and we are looking to hire two more. For olderkill workers, one of the things that i think is a big topic that hasnt been discussed whately yet is the is the challenges of health care for Older Workers, especially those between 50 and 65. Because that is before they are eligible for medicare, and it in manyl businesses Small Businesses i assume you do not provide health care and your business. Provideman we do not health care, and any check goes to pay for their health care and probably two of her paychecks each week go to pay for her health care. Sen. Mccaskill and i am aware you mentioned in your written testimony that their pay was about 25,000 a year, 12 an hour. Ms. Nordman yes, and i am a high pair for my area. Sen. Mccaskill you are a high payer for your area and your state is similar to my state in that they have not expanded medicaid under the Affordable Care act . Ms. Nordman no, i dont think so. Sen. Mccaskill your workers dont qualify for subsidies. The irony is that they are too poor to qualify for subsidies. Ms. Nordman yes. Sen. Mccaskill if they made a little bit more, their Health Insurance would go dramatically down, because they would be entitled to subsidies under the act. Because your state, like missouri, has refused the federal dollars that were identified, that would make a big difference ms. Nordman and it would make a big difference. Sen. Mccaskill for these Older Workers, who are working hard. It is not as if they are sitting at home. They are not the typical vision people have of a medicaid recipient. These are people who are working and providing great value to your company. Ms. Nordman yes, they are. Sen. Mccaskill and what about preexisting conditions . I noticed in your testimony that two of your workers had cancer. Ms. Nordman two of my workers have had cancer, and it is an issue for them. Sen. Mccaskill so if we didnt have the ability to not discriminate against preexisting conditions, that would be even more difficult for them in terms of their ability to get insurance . Ms. Nordman it would be very difficult for them. Sen. Mccaskill ms. Henan, or rix, imn, or dr. Assuming the ability to change jobs and retrain at an older age has been dictated up until very recently many times by the fact that you didnt want to leave your job if you have health care because if you had the nerve to be sick before, you couldnt go get insurance somewhere else because you had a preexisting condition. I am assuming there is more portability now for Older Workers that want to follow a dream or want to start a business or want to do something friendly what to do some thing given the good want to do somethintg differently. Ms. Rix i suspect that is the case. However, access to Health Care Still involves money. The continuing high cost of Health Care May be still present preventing some people from pursuing that. Sen. Mccaskill right, because they have the benefit and the job and they would have to be paying for themselves if they started their business, or perhaps went to work somewhere that was a much Smaller Company that was not required to provide any benefit at all. Ms. Rix especially if they werent paid very much i think that is very much true. It has the illusion of creating portability for people. I know myself that it has become a more expensive for me with any situation. With any situation. Sen. Mccaskill because you are a single business within llc . Ms. Hannon right. Sen. Mccaskill thank you very much. Sen. Collins senator warren. Sen. Warren thank you, madam chair. One of the biggest economic challenges facing the Older Workers is the increased risk of the coming disabled and unable to work, particularly because the likelihood of this ability increase sharply increases with age. From age 40 to 50, the workers chance of becoming disabled doubled, and from age 50 to 60 doubles once again. Social Security Disability insurance is the only way that millions of these workers stay out of poverty when they get hurt. Now, people sometimes think of Disability Programs as separate socialtirementage security, but both programs are about helping seniors. Fully 70 of Social Security Disability Insurance beneficiaries are in their 50s and in their 60s. Dr. Rix, as a former senior policy advisor to the aarp, you are an expert on the economic hardships facing Older Workers. Tenuous happy Social Security disability system works can you explain how the Social Security disability system works . Ms. Rix it works very much like the Social Security retired workers program. It is an income or earnings Protection Program that protects workers from loss of earning in the face of severe disability, and that his disability that is estimated to last at least a year or result in death. It is not a program for malingerers. The criteria for eligibility for are very strict and many individuals who apply for disability benefits never received them. And just like regular Social Security, Disability Insurance is something people earn from working. Is that right . Ms. Rix yes. Sen. Warren so why is the program so important to the Financial Security of Older Workers . Ms. Rix the Disability Program . I think for the very reasons that you expressed, Older Workers and i do want to emphasize that disability can occur at any age and most Older Workers are not disabled. But as you mentioned, they are more likely to become disabled with age, and that modest benefit that they receive from i program is often all were a very significant portion of the income the household receives. And that is because they are generally unable to work for our or are very limited in what they can do and so their earnings are very low as well. Sen. Warren i understand the modest benefits 1165 a month , and they keep about 6. 6 million they keep about 6. 6 million disabled americans from falling into poverty. Sometimes the Retirement Fund runs low, and sometimes the Disability Fund runs low. We have these two funds in Social Security. Usually this is not a big deal. The government regularly transfers money back and forth between the two Social Security programs, retirement and disability. We have done it 11 times before in a both directions that it has moved. But next year is different. The Disability Fund this time well need a transfer, but the very first thing the House Republicans did when they came that in january, literally on the first day of the new congress, was to pass a new rule to prevent a routine transfer to the Disability Fund. , this is ane clear invented socials. Crisis, taking the disability system hostage social therity crisis, taking disability system hostage to dismantle Social Security and strange. If they got their way, the House Republicans would force a disabled americans, most of them seniors, to face a 20 cut in their Social Security checks next year. Dr. Rix, House Republicans argued that we need to gut Social Security Disability Programs in order to save it. Do you disagree . Ms. Rix i do disagree. The Social Security disability system needs reform, but it does not need gutting. To todaysmportant disabled americans, regardless of age. I, for one, would resist any ut the program if i were in a position to do so. Sen. Warren thank you very much. When we talk about working seniors and what it means to be a working senior, i want to be clear about this. It doesnt fool anyone. It is an attack on seniors and it is time to stop playing games with the economic stability of millions of seniors who depend on Social Security to live with dignity. Thank you, dr. Rix. Thank you, madam chairman. Sen. Collins senator casey, perhaps you can help us get back on topic. Sen. Casey thank you very much for the panel testimony. Ididnt hear all of it but wanted to highlight the fact that i dont know the exact average for the age of u. S. Senators, but we are above 55, i think. We listen carefully to recommendations for today. Senator donnelly is 24 down but he brings it we all getting close to that age of not there already. I wanted to start with mr. Godwin. In your testimony you on, among other things, intergenerational services, and you have some expertise in this. One number that stood out for me andddition to what dr. Rix her testimony talked about, the participation rate, or labor of old ipation rate Labor Force Participation rate of Older Workers going from about 18 in 1985, increasing by an number like 32 in 2014. So what huge increase in the Labor Force Participation rate. One thing i wasnt aware of until the hearing was that 2. 7 million grandparents are responsible for their grandchildren, and the challenges that come with that, in any event, but especially when the grantor and responsible for their grandchildren. I know that is not the only bird in the my face, but in those circumstances where there is both the challenge of getting a job after a certain age but also , cang an additional burden you give us some advice or some suggestions as to the best ways that companies can alleviate some of that burden . Think wen well, i that areon secours benefits apply equally well to Young Mothers as to those who have french open. We see some are raising the grantor than with the home in them for some reason are unable to care for the grandchild and we have onsite childcare at a number of our facilities and we 20, 25 years ago when it was for working mothers primarily, but now that plays very well for us with employees and their grandchildren in the same centers. When you couple that with the Work Schedules we have, it means the grandparent can have a flexible schedule for getting children on and off the bus for dealing with children who are ill and have to have visits with physicians and so forth. But it is the same mindset for us, the age of the employees, friendly, irrelevant to that benefit. Is, fraknly, irrelevant to that benefit. Sen. Casey one of the realizations that animate or undergirds this discussion is bring tor workers can a workforce, not simply the deep reservoir of experience and skill, but often both wit and wisdom at the same time. What we try to do at hearings like this, in addition to learning and hearing suggestions about the current state of the challenge or problem, or opportunity, are the things we can do legislatively to move it forward. Sometimes there isnt. Sometimes there is no legislative remedy or strategy. But i guess in the remaining time i have we can go, starting moving todr. Rix, and my right, just one topline suggestion that you hope we would work on either by way of strengthening or changing the policy or introducing some new legislative or policy change. Well, there are a number of things i mentioned in my oral testimony that Additional Resources for training and retraining older ofkers would be at the top my list. But there are a number of other, perhaps some less dramatic and maybe less impactful recommendations, and one would be to expand the age determination and implement act jurisdictional threshold to businesses with 15 or more employees rather than the current 20plus. That would protect more Older Workers. Requiring employers to provide paid family leave programs should make it easier for middleaged and Older Workers, with caregiving responsibilities, among others, to combine those responsible it is with paid work. Combine those responsibilities with paid work. Eliminating the impediment to retirement programs might additionally allow workers to obtain the Work Schedules that many of them tell us they are interested in. You might when a new take a look at, rather than my going through them right now, look at those recognitions in the testimony . If i could say one other thing, though, i do think that most of the burden rests squarely on the , and its of employers is up to them to provide the job. Pportunities to Older Workers while the legislative initiatives might help someone if employers dont want or need Older Workers, then i am not sure it is there is much that policy can do to change that. Sen. Casey because were out of time, i will ask the remaining when this is to submit something for the record. Thank you very much. Senator casey, if you do want to have the rest of the witnesses respond, i would be happy to have them do so. Sen. Casey is this lightning round or [laughter] as long as the chairman will allow you to answer that, a much time you have. , i nordman as the employer agree. It is our responsibility. It is our responsibility to not discriminate on any level, and provide a workforce that is friendly and productive. I do agree, it is on us to provide jobs for Older Workers. Sen. Casey thank you. Ms. Hannon a couple of quick highlights a more Flexible Workforce, arrangements, because workers want autonomy and they want to be able to work from home. It doesnt cost more to retrofit your office. If you can do that, commitment to the Community College system. If there is any way we could build on what they are offering today, that is great. There was a wonderful consortium recently in a new york city with universities around the country trying to figure out how can we deal with this segment of our population that needs education, which we have ignored for years . It is not the young people, it is the old folks could we need we need programs for them. Finally, the idea making financing easier for senior entrepreneurs to have access to that. A lot of people in this age group you want to start the run business and it is hard to get loans for. Mr. Godwin as senator casey knows, we have senator kaine knows, we have a High Percentage of veterans in virginia. It benefits the older appellations as well. Sen. Collins thank you. Senator kaine. Sen. Kaine welcome from our hometown. I came to the hearing really thinking about the work needs of Older Workers and what i found myself thinking in your testimony, this question of flexibility for workers mr. Is aboutour testimony your particular industry. It is not just for Older Workers. In the Health Care Field it was dominated by women workers, the schedules that were appropriately flexed for family needs. You guys may have been culturally a pioneer of some of the Flexible Work arrangements, and yet, that really does seem to be a broader trend for Older Workers. Manufacturings business and decided he wanted to be a volunteer for a local Catholic Charities organization and volunteer one or two days a week, and they said we want to hire you. I dont want to be hired, i want more flexibly. They struck a deal with flexibility every week in terms of how many days he works. My dad is 80 years old but his arrangement is similar to my middle son, who is an artist and works in a restaurant just enough hours to make enough money to do his heart, which is what he really wants to do his art, which is what he really wants to do. He says everybody who works at the restaurant is just like him, they are all artists and art make an incometo to support their artistic passion. Its likely that we are moving into a new age of work with a weektional 40hour work 9to5 is less and less case, whether for seniors or others. Senator warner, my colleague from virginia, give a great speech where he said if you see a young person, dont ask him where do you work. Ask what are you working on . Forplaud you at bon secours being a pioneer on the flex ability side. How hard is that for you as the human relations professional . Guys are open 20 47, 24 7, 365. You have a lot of slots to fill. If we can put the word out to more employees that flexibility is a great way to find workers. If you want flex ability, you can find an employer who can give it. As a human relations professional, what challenges does that those to your organization . Challenge i would the lawmakers to look at flexibility isnt just about scheduling. It is about telecommuting, it is about the nature of the work and how you redesign the workspace. Flexibility is a lot more than just scheduling. The challenge for us over is to keep reinventing ourselves. We dont rest on our laurels and think that whatever we come up with now will fit how things will be five years from now could we are constantly studying, we are constantly other employers, learning from panels like this and from a lot of the awards we apply for employer awards, because there was a lot to be learned there as well. You cannot just do it like you are doing it right now. You have to continually change. Sen. Kaine the fact that bon secours has been so awarded since 2005 by aarp and others as a great place for Older Workers is a real tribute to that culture, and i applaud you for that. But yeah, i think the hearing is getting at the notion that not just for Older Workers, but for a lot of folks, just the world of work is changing and the way that people used to go to work for one organization and stay with the organization their entire life. You dont see that happening much anymore, either. There is flexibility in who you work with your entire career and this is getting at it. Dr. Rix, i couldnt resist come in the questions about this is his ability, which is not my intent, but you say we do need to reform it but we do not want security to reform Social Security disability, but theo have to grapple with notion of Social Security disability and the reforms so that people who are disabled and in need it know they can count on it. I want to know your thoughts on reform because we do have to tackle it. Ms. Rix i would really prefer to differ to my colleagues who are far more expert on the Disability Insurance programs then i am. It is a complicated system, there have been proposals for years and years, and i will leave it to the true sen. Kaine i would love to talk to the folks in the organization about it there is a tendency to talk about reform that the bells go off, you are trying to gut the program. We have been willing, congress, to make adjustments and tweaks to keep it actuarially sound, so we can have it there for us and it can be there for the next generation. I dont want to be the first generation of congress that is unwilling to make changes to make sure it is there for the next. I think there is need for reforms and if your organization has ideas about that, i would be quite interested in it. With that, thank you, madam chair. Sen. Collins thank you, very much, senators and we enjoy hearing your exchange with your constituents. One of the takeaways that i have from this hearing is that Older Workers often are more dependable, bring certain employersoid allow to avoid retraining and turnover that may occur with the younger workforce, but that flexibility is very important to them. I think its very interesting ordmans testimonies that she has a worker who comes in very early in the day to start working, and mr. Godwin flexible hoursut and making sure that grandchildren could come to the day care center. And it seems to me that another lesson from this hearing is that we need to tailor more of our programs to make sure that that areve the skills for the jobs that exist, that there is often a mismatch between jobtraining and the jobs that actually are out there. Of thenterested to learn occupational handbook that ms. H annon mentioned, and dr. Rix also talked about the needed to better align the training and education for the workforce, for Older Workers, or any workers, with the jobs that are actually out there. So i think this has been a very interesting exploration of this issue. One of the goals of our committee is to explore the issue of Retirement Security. In our state of maine, the state and i live in,n one out of three retired individuals live only on Social Security. And the average Social Security benefit is less than 16,000 a year. So the kind of jobs that ms. In an arearoviding of the state that is very rural and does not have a lot of employers is so essential to the Financial Security of those workers that you are employing. And indeed, i would wager that it is the difference between comfortable standard of living and property for many of them because if they are living on just the Social Security, they are going to have a very difficult time. I just want to expose my personal appreciation express my personal appreciation for your willingness to leave the more affluent urban areas of our state and come to rural maine, buy a business, keep it alive, grow it, and employ Older Workers. You are making the kind of difference that a good employer. An make and in the end, he does come down to employers being able to it does come down to employers being able to do what doing, when mr. Godwin is doing, to accommodate workers. And in return you get a wonderfully loyal, devoted, and hardworking workforce, as both of you have explained. I appreciate our two technical experts for being here today and sharing your expertise with the committee, as we continue to explore this issue. I think this is an issue that has not received the attention and i think wes, are facing a tsunami of retirees who will find that they are going to outlive their savings, that they have not prepared for their retirement. And working longer or working parttime or returning to work is a very important part of Financial Security for Older Americans, and that is a message that i hope our committee is to disseminate. So i want to thank you all very much for being here today. I want to see if our Ranking Member has any closing comments that she would like to make. No, and i just want to clarify my comments about the challenges for workers age 50 to 65. Youderstand, ms. Nordman, are doing some very unusual in this country, trying to revitalize manufacturing in rural communities. I grew up for part of my childhood in a town in missouri where we had a facility that was jeans, and it is, of course, long gone. And many other facilities like that request missouri across missouri that provided manufacturing opportunities. I get the challenges and i get that when you are doing and the fact that you have got 10 and are looking for two more, that shows that you are smart and are doing the right thing and you are expanding your workers, because obviously, you have got demand and you are producing something people want to buy. Congratulations on that come into all of you, thank you very much. Sen. Collins thank you so much for being here today, thank you for your culinary participation always in putting together this hearing. I want to note that i want to thank all of our witnesses for their contributions. Hearing record will be will remain open for additional testimony and questions until giving july 10, we are the holiday week to have a little bit of additional time and i want to thank the Committee Staff for their hard work. This concludes our hearing. [captions Copyright National cable satellite corp. 2015] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. Visit ncicap. Org] so there you go, hearing from back in june. Senator collins saying she thinks we are facing a tsunami of retirees who are going to outlive their savings and they have not prepared for retirement. We are asking you, and you can see the phone numbers how is it going . Are you retired . Are you able to not work . Have you put enough money away . For would you like to president ial candidates to say, do, or propose on those issues . Nevada, with donald on our line, over 55. Hi, donald. Caller hello. How is it going for you . Are you tired . Caller no, im