Earth. Announcer watch the 1969 News Coverage of the Apollo Mission on cspan or listen with our radio app. Administrator Jim Bridenstine was on capitol hill to testify about the space Agency Strategy to return to the moon and a mission to mars. He talked about staffing and recruitment challenges. This comes as nasa celebrates the 50th anniversary of the apollo 11 moon landing. This is just over one hour. Lets bring this hearing to order. Thank you for coming. Saturday marks the 50th anniversary of the apollo 11 mission. The moon landing still unites us like few events in our history. It is hard to believe half a century has passed since the u. S. Won the space race. Although it is failing to celebrate, we are pleased Jim Bridenstine although it is appropriate to celebrate, we are pleased Jim Bridenstine has joined us. Space policy directive one calls for returning humans to the moon for the First Time Since 1977. This time it will be for longterm exploration and will be followed by missions to mars. Nasa planned to return to the speech,2028 but in a Vice President pence announced a dramatic acceleration of the timeline. Under the Artemis Program, the u. S. Will land the first woman and next man on the moon by 2024 and establish a sustained presence on the moon or in lunar orbit by 2028. I share the administrations sense of urgency, as i told Jim Bridenstine, the u. S. Has entered a new space race driven primarily by the dispatch of Chinese Space power ambitions and desire for space commerce. There are clear goals and ambition ambitious timelines. Nasa and their partners will have to accomplish a great deal of work in a short amount of time. Space launch system rocket and orion crew capsule need to be tested and certified as soon as possible. We also need to build Lunar Landing systems and the gateway orbiting that docs the orion crew capsule and lunar landers. It needs to be assembled in space. As they continue to pursue these goals, nasa will maintain the highest commitment to safety. Part of that commitment to safety should include the completion of a full green run test. There is no better place to do that then at the space center in mississippi. The cost is a challenge for nasa. Inmate, the administration submitted a Budget Amendment for 1. 6 billion in additional funding related to the accelerated artemis schedule, and amount Brandon Stein is called a down payment and said the program could cost 20 billion to 30 billion of the next five years. That cause the congress to appropriate for billion dollars to 6 billion in extra funding each year. Congress needs more details on funding requirements so we can be good stewards of taxpayer dollars. Concerns have been raised about nasa moving funding from other priorities for artemis. Prioritize asian needs to include consultation to congress critical programs are not undermined. Jimden stein bridenstine shedding light, specifically gateway orbiter in order to execute the program successfully. The anniversary of apollo 11 remind us all of untapped , but constantly changing priorities, unstable funding, have caused the Space Program to suffer. Congress should and will perform oversight duties but we need to provide nasa with consistent direction, clarity of purpose, and the funding it needs for success. Succeed, i am excited about this and i hope this hearing will help provide the insight necessary to make good on the legacy of apollo. I turned to Ranking Member cantwell for her comments. Thank you for holding this important nasa meeting today about the plan to return astronauts to the moon by 2024. Launchedago, apollo 11 and Neil Armstrong and buzz aldrin became the first people to walk on the moon. Five politicians successfully landed 10 more americans and three lunar rovers built in washington state. Just as importantly, the Apollo Program inspired and entirely generation of engineers and scientists. Many of them went on to other careers in other fields of high technology. This generation of dreamers firmly established the u. S. As a Global Leader in innovation and technology. The space race and nasas investment in space also perpetrated a thriving commercial space industry that exists today. Very proud of those companies that reside in the state of washington using the expertise of many washington scientists and engineers to help us achieve this mission. The benefits of Space Exploration are clear. Nasa should continue to push the boundaries of space, science, exploration and technology and also started to outline a plan. I appreciate that nasa is looking at the nontraditional partnerships that the commercial Space Community can given that relationship and in Space Exploration. Today, nasa has been developing the rocket and spacecraft need for deep Space Missions for more than nine years and nasas estimate is that orion will not be able to fly crew until 2022. Nasa has started to study the lunar landers and other hardware needed for the mission. It is hard to believe these key pieces can fall together in just the next five years. Last week you made changes at the head oftion human expiration. With that and nasas retirement of the space shuttle, the question of the leadership in the new organization to deliver on the goal is some of the things i will drill down on the question and answer part of this this morning. Nasa has yet to deliver a congressional budget for the meeting beyond 2020. It is difficult for us to approve the mission if we do not know what the ultimate cost will be to the taxpayers. While we celebrate the accomplishment and the fact that you are continuing to be pioneers in space, we also need to look at the other the next chapter of exploration and make sure it is successful. I appreciate the value of ambition but look forward to hearing from you on how we are going to meet the challenge. Thank you, mr. Chairman, for holding the hearing. I would like to include the testimony of dr. Patricia sanders, who has highlighted some of the challenges i mentioned. Without objection. It will be added. Jim bridenstine thank you. Thank you for having me here today. We are celebrating 50 years of apollo and we had this great contest of great powers in that era and we were trying to demonstrate our technological prowess, the ability to lead the world. It was not just about technological prowess. We were trying to demonstrate our politics were superior to that of the former soviet union and we were proud of what nasa did in those days and what the astronauts walked on the first walked on the moon for the first time and 50 years later we are celebrating that achievement. As the Ranking Member identified, we did five Additional Missions after that and 12 people walked on the moon and then the program ended. And that has been a letdown for nasa. We want to continue to do these achievements and go further and explore more and that is what the new program is about. We call it artemis. We think about the history of the Apollo Program and what it meant to the u. S. In greek mythology, apollo had a twin sister and her name was artemis. She was the goddess of the moon. This time, under the Artemis Program when we go forward to the moon sustainably, we go with a very diverse, highly qualified Astronaut Corps that includes women and we have directions from the Vice President , that within five years, we will land the next man and first woman on the south pole of the moon. Believedese years, we the moon was bone dry up until 2008. Now we know there are hundreds of millions of tons of water ice on the south pole. That represents air to breathe and water to drink and hydrogen. Nd oxygen same rocket fuel that powers the space shuttles and it is available on the south side of the moon. So we are doing it differently this time. The direction is to go sustainably. To have access to the moon any time, and the integrity of the moon so we do not miss another stunning discovery like water ice, which we missed for almost 40 minute 40 years. So we want to go back sustainably and have access to all parts of the moon anytime we want and we want to use this as the proving ground. This is the proving ground. It is how we learn to live and work in another world using the resources of that world so we can take that technology to mars. That is the longterm vision. We have a good start. Certainly have come in the budget request, what we need to come out of the gate, i suggest that the 2021 budget request will have more details as far as the trades we need to make within the option space to go to the moon sustainably with an eye way thatand do it in a is commensurate with the budget. That is what we are working on now. Thank you for holding this hearing on the anniversary of apollo and i look forward to answering any questions. Thank you. I am afraid i must have mr. Bogan i must have misspoken earlier when i said this was the 50th anniversary of the moon landing. I was a freshman in college at the time and that could not ago,bly have been 50 years so im am going to ask my staff to recalculate that. [laughter] no one question deal. [laughter] something is wrong. We have to get the money right. Thank you for being ambitious. And thank you to the administration for saying we can move this five years earlier and make it a priority and something we can be proud of but something that will be safe. About not getting anddget number for defense nondefense discretionary. Getting to october 1 and moving monthlong, that would be counterproductive to getting you where you need to go. How would that affect you . It would be devastating. What we lack right now is a lander. The u. S. Has not had a moon lander since 1972, the last time we landed on the moon. That is something we need to develop. We have commercial partners that have been investing their own money. We are thrilled about that. We have opportunities to achieve this goal because of the investments some of them have already made. A number of private companies have already invested money. That being said, it is not cheap to build a lander and they are looking for support from nasa and we want to be that support. We believe doing a Publicprivate Partnership is important and they will be able to have customers that are not nasa. So we can have more access for lesser cost and grow the space economy. That being said, if we end up in , the lander does not continue this get developed and we do not have money in the budget right now to develop a land. Lander. It takes a good bit of time which is why we have to get started right away. To some people, a continuing resolution, level funding, it is way worse than that, is not it . It is. A lot of people associate a cr with keeping things steady and the reality is we do not make investments we need to make, but even worse, we continue to make investments we do not need to make. So it is a waste of money when we end up in a cr and that is one of my biggest concerns, that we will be spending money on things we do not need and not spending money on things we do. You told the committee and marsh in march that nasa would examine all available options to ensure the first oneht of the sls artemis takes place by 2021. How confident are you that we can meet that i think 2020 one is definitely achievable for the arguments one lunch vehicle. Identifiedady been havehe Ranking Member, we made some changes at the head of the Human Exploration Missions directory. Some of the key challenges we have had as an agencys cost and schedule, being realistic about cost and schedule, and meeting the cost and schedule milestones that we ourselves set. So in order to reset the cost and schedule of some of these programs, we have made changes missionop of the directory. Put theoving rapidly to right folks in place, but i want them to be in place before we set out a new deadline for artemis one. I say that because we need by and from people who make the agency. Some of the challenges we have notin the past, nasa has been good at setting realistic budgets and schedules and we need to get better at that. We announce a new date, i want to make sure we have new leadership in place. Quickly, with regard to green run, are you still determined to do it . Green run is absolutely in the baseline plan. Of the greenope run, i dont know what that will like. Will get a team in place to assess the situation and i would be more than happy to report. Some senator . Thank you, mr. Chairman. You mentioned the human space expiration administrators. Who will be making decisions on artemis . Want to make sure that we have new leadership in place before we make those decisions. , we have experienced, qualified folks in acting positions. Namely, human extortion and Operations Command the associate administrator command the Development Division with an human expiration. We have acting folks who have been at the agency long time. In fact, they are just getting the positions. Want to find the absolute best talent and move quickly. That does not affect your decisionmaking . Within the next six weeks, it will not heard not. But before we make commitments on the scope or timelines, i want to make sure the new team is in place and have realistic costs and schedules. So that it is their cost and schedule and they can be held accountable. You think that was something that was missing before . We have a long history of costs of schedules not being set in a realistic way and not achieving our cost of schedules. Cases, that leads to a lack of confidence from the key people that we need, namely folks on this committee i definitely believe in system testing. Ugh very important. When can we expect to see a budget . The 2021 Budget Development is underway right now. She was working within the administration. , you will seedget the out your funding for the Artemis Program through 2024. You think we will be able to see an extrapolation of that number. I think you will see the dollars that we are looking at in orderfor the years to achieve that milestone to to achievein order that milestone. Thank you. I thank you for artemis. Missionhat in this next , we can use whatever tools we have to call on americas brightest women engineers to participate in the process. As we have all looked at video of the last launch, we can see one thing is missing. We dont see women in the control rooms or in those pictures, but i appreciate the fact that you are trying to uphold an image and i hope that we will do some serious work at trying to use that as a tool. I hope that we are able to do that. Is makeg we can do here sure that we get this weather situation correct one of the things, when chairman of ajit pai was here chairman achieved by ajit pai was here, he sadi said there was no progress. Can i get your opinion on that . Yes, maam. When we think about the 24 gigahertz part of the electromagnetic spectrum, depending on the decibel level, it will definitely bleed over to the 23. 6 gigahertz part of the spectrum. There is risk of air that when it leads over, some of the sensors in space that are looking at the earth to characterize water vapor and energy of that water vapor, some of that data could be interfered , corrupted. I want to be really clear, this was a study done by nasa on behalf of noah. In this not have a dog fight, other than having great scientists and engineers to do this analysis. We do have one or two missions that use that part of the spectrum, but nothing compared to what no a has for weather prediction. This is a weather prediction effort, and i can tell you that depending on the decibel level and that 23 point six gigahertz, we could lose significant data. , wending on that level could lose up to 70 of that data. , itif that were to happen would affect our ability to predict whether, without question. I do think there could be an elegant solution. Area, itis outside my is not nasas job to do this. There is an elegant solution where the decibel level could be modified the point were we could get all the data we need to still be able to operate and 24 gigahertz. Require additional cell towers, that kind of thing. But there are others who should be considering that. But i will tell you, there is a riskier. A risk here. Thank you, chairman. Although it is not your thing , it is a vitally important it is vitally important. It is. Have you had a conversation about this issue . I have not. Formula e study four noah for noah. Thank you. Next, we have senator scott. He is not here. Senator gardner. Thank you for being here. Last night, i have the opportunity to walk down the mall and see thousands of people from around the globe that are around the mall to watch the incredible projection of the saturn rocket on the washington monument. And it was a time to see families together. Some were having picnics or telescopes out on the mall. They had cameras and tshirts emblazoned with the nasa logo in celebration of a historic accomplishment 50 years ago. It made me incredibly proud of this country and i hope that we can find more moments like that to celebrate. Not just in this, but in sony achievements this country has accomplished. In times of Great Division and political strife, things like this can bring the country together. And he saw it last night on the mall, i think i even taxes do a picture of it. Thank you for doing that. It was a great picture. When you look back to the opportunities we have in space, just around the hearing room, my guess is that a significant majority of people were not here years ago when the United States embarked on this incredible effort. Generation, mars could of new incredible amount opportunity and hope for our country. What are two or three things this congress ought to be looking at that will ensure we are successful in prioritizing that we get back to the moon and mars. What are things we ought to be mindful of . About, we have to think as a nation, that is what nasa does for the country. It provides vision. Theve these hawked about turmoil our country was in at the time. Vietnam was raging, we had protests in the streets, we have civil rights abuses and protests. The country was torn apart, and yet there was this moment in time where all of the country, in bipartisan fashion, the entire world watched. Heard by tens of millions of people behind the iron curtain in russia and cuba at a time when relationships were as bad as they have ever been. So i think what we needed to be focused on as a country is here we are 50 years later when we think about apollo and the popularity of apollo when we lost three brave astronauts, there were times when apollo was a risk. It was never tremendously popular as a program until we accomplished that stunning achievement. Once we, which that achievement, here we are, 50 years after, commemorating that achievement the question is what are we doing today that 50 years after we achieve the new stunning achievement that 50 years later people will be commemorating. Them howow we inspire we create the next generation of scientists or engineers. It will have benefits for the economy for National Security and defense, and for future exploration. So the key thing is to think what is that stunning achievement . I think that is finding life on another world. ,nd in the last year significant discoveries have been made to indicate life could very well exist on mars. You talk about some of the leadership changes. Nasas human expiration and Operations Mission directorate. Does this mean a change in nasas direction or longterm vision . Not one bit. There are incredible initiatives. Leadershiphanges in mean that these strategies are do theeevaluated changes in leadership mean that the strategies are being reevaluated . Not at all. What are things that can be developed . Technologies can be developed and new approaches that i dont think are being considered. We have a small team of people and evaluating a short stay on mars using orbital physics that i did do not think many have considered in the past. If we did that, we could accelerate the timeline. I have said publicly i will not rule out the 2033 timeline. Of course, your friend and colleague in the house has been very keen on this timeline. I think there is the possibility that can be achieved, but we are looking at what that space would be. And we are going to do our own assessments. , i think there are ways that could be considered that would increase the timeline. Usthank you for giving something to hope for and drive for. Absolutely. Thank you for holding this hearing and welcome back to our witness. Thank you. Yesterday was the actual 50th of the apollo launch. A historic event in American History and a monumental moment for Space Exploration. , i was proud to present with senator cruz at a hearing discussing human space expiration in the past and the future. As we look to the future of space expiration, we must first address space industry issues we face on earth. So let me start by asking you about the workforce capacity of nasa and its partners. Nasas prime contractor has declined by over 60 . Of the Civil Service workforce is currently eligible for retirement and more than half are over 50 years old. If we are to return to the moon, here are some of the challenges. A 2017 report found that the capability leadership test with determining the likelihood of success have regularly failed to determine if the workforce was able to meet the needs of the mission or agency. After serving as administrator for over one year, what efforts have you taken to ensure they are able to sustain longterm American Space leadership and how can we assist nasa . Nasa has a number of programs that we use to inspire young folks to enter into the stem field. That is really where the key is. If you go back to the apollo era , most of the nasa workforce jack schmidt, who is an astronaut and geologist come a landed on the moon geologist, he has landed on the moon. We are significantly different. We have a wave of retirements coming from as you mentioned half of our workforce is above 50 years old. There are a couple of things that are important. That is getting people inspired early. And one program weve talked about that i support has direct implications for nasas workforce is first robotics. These young folks are very diverse in high school are engaged in these robotic competitions. They are absolutely mindboggling. These High School Kids can build these robots to compete at this level. What we find is that there is a direct positive correlation between these kids that participate in these activities and them going into stem fields. , where weout to jpl build the robots from ours, you will talk to folks that were part of first robotics in high school. Capability is tremendously valuable for the workforce that we are going to need 10 years from now, 20 years from now, and not just for nasa, although we see it in real time at nasa. Mentors and 10 Centers Across the United States. We have mentors embedded with these kids that are just doing mindboggling Robotics Development projects. I think first robotics is one of those things. One of the challenges we have to consider is the middlemanagement that becomes upper management. That is where we will have a gap to fill. On where weng now can get that talent. But the reality is we need a bench. We are actually good in developing that bench, but there is a gap you have identified. I next want to discuss nasas collaboration with universities. 2018, nasa of entered its orbit around the asteroid. Within months, discovered water will molecules in a never been sort never before seen phenomena. Sample, allowing scientists to study up close. I am glad this mission was proposed and supported by science teams at the university of arizona. Missions like these combine innovative ideas with nasas technical expertise. Administrator, are there new programs nasa is implement in to give universities more opportunities to lead the development of space and Science Missions . And what role do you envision these partnerships having . Identified correctly nasa has had amazing success with university partnerships, especially with the Science Mission directorate. Forsteroid return mission the same time in human history, i will tell you, whether it is the university of arizona, these universities are leading the when it comes to University Engagement with nasa and developing these programs and projects. We find that when the universities do this activity, cost and schedule happens. That is not always the case, but universities have the opportunity to do that. Going to the workforce, this directly ties in. When universities engage in these projects, they get students involved. And they enter the workforce immediately ready to take on projects for nasa. That is how we developed the workforce of the future. We have a number of different programs you have identified already, but having principal investigators of the universities the proposed and that propose these projects is a great way to stay on track and to get young folks involved. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Senator scott. Thank you for being here. Know, nasas efforts are very important to florida and the florida economy. When the Obama Administration shut down manned flight, we lost about 7000 jobs which impact of the economy but also talent around the space coast. Come upre able to through the private sector, we spent 230 million and is now thriving again. A lot of it is because of good decisions made as well as these private companies pouring in an unbelievable amount of money. We all know the importance of what you are doing. Difficult is it to come up with the numbers it takes so that you can defend have you figure, how do you do it . It is exceptionally difficult. And first of all, what kennedy has done is amazing. Multiuser spaceport where you have private Sector Companies launching rockets sidebyside with nasa and air force and everybody else, commercial, government, and one other thing, the director down there has to amazing work to grow that industry in florida. But i think one of the areas where the rest of the country could help is modeling the investments that the state of florida made into that space center. That is ultimately enabling nasa to accomplish its missions. Missions. So we were grateful for your leadership to keep that going. And there are other states around the country that could do similar things. As the idea of how do we come up with these kind of schedules, given how complex these missions are, it is very difficult. When we do these things, we are inventing subsystems of subsystems. And depending on how those work, we could put those in the system. And those systems are being invented for the first time. So there is a very difficult process here. We are not massproducing automobiles, for example. We are inventing things for the first time. Nasa is not a manufacturing organization. We are development organization. And now we do it alongside a lot of commercial Partners Operating out of the Kennedy Space center. So it is often hard. Where we are not good as an agency shall what we like to do is come up with a plan. If everything goes right, here is the end state. By the way, well put in 50 margins. If anyone thing goes wrong, you could eat up that margin just like this and it has follow on effects. So the risk continues on the ,chedule, but at the same time the margin is gone. This puts us in a situation where we need to be more realistic about schedule and costs as we go forward one of the things i love about the agency is that so many people there have this cando spirit. A lot of people there want to make it happen, they believe they can make it happen, there some of the smartest people in the country. And i believe they can make it happen, but because our missions , anyometimes so complex small change that has to be made takes a long time. We have had a long time hard time with that, as has been indicated. That is why we are making changes but it is something we need to get better at. Is there a thing that we can do that would create more incentives for states to invest and take more risks . I think that is a wonderful question. I would love to take it for the record record. There are a team of people sitting behind me who would love to come up with a list. Im sure we can provide the, sir that, sir. Im sure all of the states want the work done in their state if to be proud of the work done in their state. Many would do the same thing florida did if there was an opportunity. I think you are right. Thank you very much for your presence here today. Thank you for your leadership and vision. I am impressed by you, as i have indicated previously. I appreciate what youre doing to take nasa into a different realm and take our country with it. Thank you, sir. You are welcome. First of all, you said something earlier that i want to flesh out. That is something i have been looking for for a while as an appropriate in this arena. If i heard you correctly, when i heard you say was that what we have a oneyear 1. 6 billion you aree Administration Working to have you put together this request, that will then include the numbers i have been looking for. Despite what you and the senator had to say, those numbers are difficult to come by. But for me and others who are interested in this program, we need to learn not what it costs over the life of the project. Did i understand your answer correctly . Yes, sir. There are trades we have to negotiate out. That happens inside the administration. Of course, the chairman of the Space Council is the Vice President. So we need to come up with what these trades are, come to an agreement. We have to be careful we keep our eyes on what the goal is. Our goal is first woman on the moon in 2024. And once those are made, committed to the baseline and make sure we come up to the hill here and share it with our members of congress and senators. Trades, trades within nasas budget . Within the architecture. I will give you an example. Look at apollo, we had one lender, one human lander one lander, one human lander, and because of that, there were major risks. Apollo went to the moon when it was not ready. It took years, not years, months. The question is how do we mitigate risk . And use what did not exist back then, commercial companies, that are willing to make their own investments. So there are a lot of variables at play. Some Companies Want to invest as much as 30 , maybe even more. So that helps us if they get selected. If they dont get selected company does not help us. We want to make sure they are capable of achieving the end state, but private Companies Want to make this investment. Depending on how much they want to invest changes the number. The other thing is, do we want just one lander . The we want three . Do we want three . In my view, which have at least three that are receiving support from commercial industries. And as time goes on, down to two. That used them motivated to be one of the two companies. That mitigates risk. If something goes wrong with one, the others go forward and we can stay on schedule. I did not artfully ask my question. You artfully answered it, but what we are talking about is a fiveyear plan for artists. Artemis. To have a fiveyear plan for everything nasa is going to do. To begin the process of funding artemis, we need to know how it is estimated money is going to be required in the future. You and the chairman had a conversation in todays hearing i would highlight. None of this will work and i need your assistance with the situation, the assistance of your former colleagues, to know we are going to pursue a more bold planet nasa, we have to have a budget agreement that allows us to spend the money. Cr is devastating to this cause, so i ask you to rally your friends and colleagues to make sure while none of us may get what we want in a budget agreement, and many may not occur in the absence of some compromise. Acr is damaging beyond nasa and needs to be avoided. Ould add, tell me about you and i were at the embassy a week or two ago. We look at the International Space station as an amazing achievement of not just technology, but also diplomacy. 15 nations operating the iss. The United States is the lead, but we want to go all the way to the moon and even grow it from there. That is what artemis is all about. This time when we go to the groupwe have a diverse that includes women. This is another reason sometimes it is hard to come up with what the numbers are. We need to get commitments from other nations. In some cases they are willing to put forth a good chunk of their own money to help us achieve a sustainable presence on the surface of the moon. Thank you, and thanks to the president and the Vice President for their leadership in regard to space. Yes sir. Senator sullivan. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Thanks for your leadership and your team. This is all very exciting and i think there is an opportunity to do a lot more here. Let me ask a couple questions. Have you read the book american moonshot . I have read excerpts. A Rice University professor, my alma mater. Thinkis a good read and i it shows a lot of historical analogies on what is happening now and what happened back then. Have you seen the movie the martian . Yes. I the reason i have asked, think there is an opportunity here when you see hollywood doing movies that are quite inspiring based on a really inspiring book to do what the senator was highlighting, which is give our young men and women, High School Kids throughout this country, excited about space. And nasa, the way it was during as kennedy moonshot years laid out in that Douglas Brinkley book. What should we be doing to help you to help on that mission, which i think is a great opportunity, but i dont think we are taking full advantage of it. How do we inspire americas youth to not only get involved, but to bring us to the next level . They clearly have the ability. We just have to inspire them. I like what you said. You called it kennedys moonshot. It is important to her member that by the time we landed on the moon, president kennedy had already been deceased for six years, maybe seven years, by the time we landed. It was his vision. It was his vision. That is the important thing to remember for the house and senate. This is a project. When we talk about going to mars , this is a project where a vision has to be laid out, but it has to be a vision that remains consistent. That is where Congress Rolls in and can help. When i was in the house, we passed the nasa transition authorization act of 2017, signed by the president , to keep that constancy of purpose. I really think the constancy of purpose is what enabled these things to move forward. Congress is the agency that can help. As far as inspiring that nextgeneration, we have to be thinking about the stunning achievement. One of the things where people a lot of people have talked in this committee about 50 years ago, i cannot believe it was 50 years ago. I am the first nasa administrator who was not alive when that moonshot occurred. I was not alive for any. I dont have that memory. Let me ask you timelines and division and the bold stroke you are talking about. Toas reading your bulletin the nasa employees, and if you can help me understand, you talk ,bout the Artemis One Mission within the lunar vicinity by 2022, yet you are talking about 2024 on the landing. I know we only have a couple more minutes, but if you can itout the schedule is 2022, is it 2024 for being on the moon . 11p me understand, apollo had the saturn five rockets, the lunar module orbiting the moon. What is the similarity, what is the difference . How big is the sls going to be . Is it going to be bigger than the saturn five rocket . Are we orbiting the moon with the command module . Are relating directly . What is the vision . And then lay out the vision for mars. I can do it. Here is what we are doing. Sls rocket, the biggest rocket ever built. It is more powerful than the saturn five as far as the feet high, im not sure. Its taller than the statue of liberty. Its big enough. The crew capsule at the top of that. We would like to see that go around the moon, unaccrued uncrewed, in 2021. When it goes around the moon, we are talking about being able to navigate around the moon, change orbits, test all the systems we need to test with the crew capsule and the European Service module. That includes International Partnership right there. For artemis ii, when we have crew on board, the vicinity matters. We are going to launch into earth orbit with all the metabolic systems for human life support and we are going to test all those systems in earth orbit for a period of time. Why . We dont want to test them at the moon. We are going to test them in earth orbit and then take that orion crew capsule and launch it on a free return trajectory. That will be the first time we send humans to the vicinity of the moon, and we are looking at 2022, 2023 for that mission. I. En of course, artemis ii we will be aggregating what you identified as command module, we want a reusable command module that is there for 15 years. Launched to ae space station in orbit around the moon, we call it gateway. It is a reusable command module where we will have aggregated a human landing system. Our astronauts can go into the gateway, get into the landing system, go to the surface of the moon, and back to the gateway, then back to the crew capsule and back to earth. That is the architecture for the 2024 Lunar Landing. It is eminently achievable. A lot of things have to go right. Have to get the budget to achieve it. If all of that comes together, which i think it will, we will be having the first woman on the south pole of the moon in 2024. Thank you, mr. Chairman. That is very exciting and a. Senator blackburn. Thank you you, mr. Chairman. And administrator, good to see you in this position. I have known your passion for nasa, and that is really what you wanted to do. To see your leadership and your vision, we love it. I couple of questions i have dealing with china and great power competition. As you talk about commercialization in artemis, in gateway, what are your contingency plans if what you need is not commercially available or it is not mission say it islet us already earmarked for defense priorities . What is your contingency plan so that you stay on schedule . When we look at the architecture, we want to build dissimilar redundancy into as much of the architecture as possible. In fact, we talked about landers a little bit earlier, we talked about having multiple human landers that can go back and forth to the moon from the gateway. Want multiple human landers in the Development Process . If one of them falls behind her cannot meet the milestones, the others can go forward. That is how we build reusable i should say, dissimilar redundancy into the architecture so we can keep moving forward even if one falls behind. What we do not want to do is end up in a position where we put all our eggs into one basket and we cannot achieve the milestone. That is what we have done with sls and orion. Those are the only two systems that exist to that are going to be able to get us to the moon. We are going to finish those programs. They are going to be the flagship of our Moon Missions thereafter. That being said, we want to make sure we have multiple dissimilar capabilities that dont get us bogged down on the way. That sounds great. Mr. Chairman, im going to yield back my time. I know we have a vote on the floor that we need to finish. Thank you, mr. Administrator. Yes maam. Thank you, mr. Chairman, very much. Massachusetts has played a proud role in the United StatesSpace Program from the leadership of president kennedy to the hundreds of scientists who worked in labs at m. I. T. And other institutions in massachusetts. The massachusetts factories that manufacture gear for the missions, the ingenuity and massachusetts was key in changing the impossible to the possible with our scientists and engineers and physicists and designers and manufacturers. At the space race has turned from a sprint into a series of marathons, it becomes more important to make smart and balanced decisions for the longterm health of our Space Program. You have estimated that it will 20 toround an additional 30 billion to bring astronauts. Ack to the surface of the moon nasa asked for the ability to move funds to its moon landing program. Esther administrator, can you commit that nasa will not decimate valuable programs such as those in the science directorate, which study everything from solar wind to the possibility of life on mars in order to fund this mission to the moon . Aware, so you are senator, i have worked very hard to make sure the additional money needed for artemis did not cannibalize any other parts of nasas budget. I worked hard to achieve that. We achieved that. Where that money came from, that was well above my pay grade, but i can commit to you i continue to work to make sure we do not cannibalize one part of nasa to feed another. I will tell you why. It does not work. We tried this before in the 1990s where we were going to fund the Space Exploration initiative by taking money out of the International Space station. That created all kinds of problems. We were going to take it out of the signs mission directorate. That created partisan problems. In the end, it never works. What we are trying to do is make sure people understand that this achievement will be accomplished so long as there is strong bipartisan support. Thats what we are looking for. Thank you. That would be my goal as well working with the chairman and the other members of the committee. It is clear we cannot lift our gaze to the moon while engaging in tunnel vision here. Yes, sir. We have to ensure sciences fully funded. Nasa was appropriated 218 million for lunar science in fiscal year 2019. Mr. Administrator, has nasa been working with the National Academies or broader Academic Community in determining the projects that will be flown on the commercial Lunar Payload Services . I will have to take that for the record. My direction to follow the guidance of the National Academy of sciences. If there is any concern that we are not doing that, i would love to know it. As far as i am concerned, we ought to be following the guidance of the National Academy of science. It is imperative we stay close to the National Academies and the full scientific community. It will enhance the likelihood we will be successful. It has been more than 50 years since this country has built some of the technology we need on the moon, including lunar spacesuits. A Company Based in worchester built the suits for the Gemini Program and the radio headsets for the Apollo Missions. We have no spacesuits or deep Space Missions today, and it can take years to get Technology Ready to use, raising questions about how we meet this 2020 for target. Mr. Administrator, what is nasas plan for the procurement of spacesuits for the 2024 moon landing. We just had this conversation this morning. It is a challenge. Spacesuits are very complex. They are not easy to come by. A spacesuit for the space station is very different than a spacesuit for the moon. Youve got lunar dust, youve got different thermal challenges you dont have in low earth orbit. We do need the development of a new suit. What we are looking at is a spacesuit architecture that is flexible, one that can be used in low earth orbit and at the wen, and as early as 2020, will be testing parts of a spacesuit on the International Space station. The goal is ultimately to test the suits on the International Space station. Right now, the plan is 2023. If we were to get artemis funded, we could accelerate those to build margin into their schedule. I would request from you a timeline from nasa on what your plan is to develop these spacesuits. Without some kind of a plan that , i think it would be important for us to see what that is. Absolutely. To putust will be able it in place. Thank you for your service. Thank you. Commend to your attention the recent article on the first moon landing, which was published in smithsonian magazine, wherein it was revealed that the designer of the spacesuit was holding his astronauts the two were bounding, jumping up and down on the moon, for fear that buzz aldrin would, in his exuberance, fall over and hit a jagged rock. Things turned out ok. But that was a moment of anxiety. Members, we are going to try to other members were going to try to be here, but we filibuster no longer. Much. Nk you very thank you, mr. Chairman. We wish you well. Fore is great enthusiasm this topic. We look forward to hearing from you again. The hearing record will remain open for two weeks. Senators are asked to submit questions to the record. The witnesses are requested to submit written answers to the committee as soon as possible. So we conclude the hearing. Thank you, sir. We now adjourn. Thank you, chairman. [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. Visit ncicap. Org] a new poll shows a third of americans have a favorable view of the trump administrations efforts to create a space force. Nearly as Many Americans have an unfavorable view. The Largest Group has no opinion about space force at all. Theree the even split, are significant differences when you look at the partisan breakdown. Seest half of republicans space force favorably, while under a quarter of democrats share that view. Regardless of americas views on space force itself, National Security came in second behind monitoring earths environment when those surveys were asked to select priorities for u. S. Based policy. At can find all results cspan. Org. This weekend marks the 50th anniversary of the moon landing. Earlier today, members of congress spoke from the house floor to recognize that moment in history