This hearing will look at a range of violent antigovernment actors, movements, and organizations, highlighting recent threats from militia extremists and accelerationists, including the Boogaloo Movement, who seek to accelerate society toward violent collapse. Anything that is threatening institutions, we also look at it. That is what we are doing today. It is incredibly irrelevant to me which groups we look at so long that we are looking at the principal ones that threaten peoples lives. Some of these Extremist Movements stream from ideologies that are decades old. Others are both having new. Others are relatively new. These threats range from decentralized and leaderless accelerationist networks to more structured militia groups. Antigovernment extremism is one of the Common Threads, but we often see overlap with antiimmigrant, antisemitic, antiblack, antimuslim ideologies as well, bringing these extremists into common cause with others who are extremist in nature. Today we had an opportunity to discuss the current Threat Landscape from these movements so we can develop an understanding of how they have flourished in our communities and in online spaces. We have seen horrific acts of violence. In april, a man in texas was arrested after skimming himself searching for a Law Enforcement officer to ambush. In may and june, a man in california shot and killed a department of Homeland Security federal protective Service Officer and wounded one more, and then went on to kill a Santa Cruz CountyPolice Officer before being arrested. He wrote the word boog in blood after carrying out the second murder. In may, three men were arrested in nevada, in possession of molotov cocktails, while reportedly on their way to incite violence at a black lives matter protest in las vegas. In june, a man in oklahoma was arrested and found to be in possession of an illegally modified machinegun, homemade grenades, and molotov cocktails, all of these men appear to be connected to the Boogaloo Movement. The list goes on and on. We doimportant today that thesese sight of how movements intersect with other popular extremist groups. We are going to be asking some really critical questions today. Number one is what do we do about this. How does Law Enforcement do, what is the federal government do, what should social media do . What do we do in it collaborative way and what we do in a mandatory way. We have a shared responsibility across the public and private sectors. The lives of our lawenforcement officials are on the line. The lives of innocent citizens who are congregating in protests are on the line. I believe in so many ways, the future of this country and sanctity of the constitution is on the line. With that, recognize mr. Walker. Thank you, mr. Chairman. There is no doubt that across the globe there is an uptick in extremist ideology. As the committee created after 9 11, we must stay focused on the continued jihadi threat. We are seeing the adoption of acceleration is to rhetoric with call to target government institutions and Law Enforcement for adherence to commit acts of violence as a means of treating creating further unrest. We have seen this in subpoenas movements, antigovernment groups and environmental organizations. This convergence of violent ideologies results in the sharing of tactics and propaganda and the spreading of misinformation and conspiracies as well as the liberation of violence. I probably should start with expressing my condolences to the families of david underwood, a protective Security Officer and a deputy that the chairman just mentioned. They were both murdered in the line of duty in may and june. I want to express support for the speedy recovery of their colleagues who were also injured. The suspect believed to be responsible have been arrested and the fbi is conducting an investigation into the links of the possible support for the movement which is an acceleration is term. We also must review others as the chairman mentioned. I appreciate that. These attacks are on all americans. I knowlike antifa, and that seems to be a conservative talking point but the kind of damage they are doing, a reporter sat in my office and i could still see the injuries. There has been a consistent effort by antifa supporters to infiltrate protests to lay siege to government buildings. In portland alone, the police chief has stated that the violence has costed the city tens of millions of dollars. Thingsre the kinds of that we must stand together regardless of politics. In seattle there is an effort to deny the antifa movement. We need to move forward. The reality is that antifa is not an organization. But it is a movement, an ideology, and a call for violent rioting. The zones involved in and violence around the city are part of these movements. We can agree that all of these anyps, boogaloo, antifa and other Extremist Movements must be condemned and i think that is why this hearing is crucial today. These violent extremists on all sides are tending to hijack legitimate protests and interrupt debate on needed institutional reforms. Some are targeting protesters. Some are attacking Police Officers. Many are vandalizing government buildings and others seek to create autonomy zones. We need effort to condemn violence and restore order. I want to thank the witnesses for appearing before the subcommittee today. I look forward to your testimony and i yield back my time. The subcommittee will operate according to the guidelines laid out by chairman thompson and ranking number roberts. Recognizes mr. Thompson for an opening statement. In chairman thompsons absence, the chair recognizes the ranking , mr. Rodgers for an opening statement. Chairman thompson, i will recognize you for an opening statement. Thank youhompson very much, chairman rose. I thank you for convening this timely hearing today and for your leadership. This committee is known for following the threats wherever they we lead they may lead. This hearing provides us with the opportunity to examine the emerging threat from violent antigovernment extremists. I believe todays hearing is the first congressional hearing that focuses on the emerging threat and i acceleration nests applaud chairman rose for examining this issue. It is important that members and the American Public hear from these experts today to understand those emerging threats. Recent attacks and arrests have showcased the threat from individuals affiliated with the Boogaloo Movement. This coalition present an immediate danger to Law Enforcement and the american people. As our experts have shared in their written testimony, this movement is complex and requires a nuanced understanding. Boogaloo the the Boogaloo Network appears to be largely antigovernment, constantly changing and drawing followers from the fringes of many different extremist ideologies. The Common Thread is the desire to accelerate society toward a second civil war. That means that many of them are driven to commit violence. It is imperative the department of Homeland Security and other fellow agencies immediately devote resources toward understanding and confronting these emerging threats. I understand that this is a difficult issue, but it is not acceptable for dhs to remain in the dark. Law enforcement officials made a top target of these individuals and extremists which means that it is even more urgent for dhs to produce and disseminate localation to state and Law Enforcement so they can stay ahead of the threat. Resources and attention must be appropriately allocated. We need to follow the threat. We should not be swayed by political whims. It goes without saying that Property Damage and any and all violence linked to antifa should be condemned. Public reporting, arrest records, the governments reporting indicate that right wing extremists pose a more urgent threat to americans. We will hear from experts about the threats facing americans. I look forward to the discussion on how the violent fringes of these movements have utilized Online Platforms to their advantage. This has been a major concern of mine over the last congress and one of the reasons i introduced hr 4782, the National Commission on Online Platforms and Homeland Security act. Commission would seek to understand how bad actors, including extremists, exploit Online Platforms in furtherance of violence. This bipartisan piece of legislation was voted out of this committee in october 2019 and awaits action from our colleagues in the energy and commerce committee. Tos committee will continue shed light on how social media platforms are exploited and also hold the Companies Accountable when they failed to enforce the policies they have set forth to combat extremists. I appreciate the witnesses joining us today and again and chairman woes chairman rose for convening this hearing today and i yield back. Chairman rose thank you, mr. Chairman. Macnab. T witness is jj he is an expert on antigovernment extremism. Our second witness is dr. Heidi beirich, cofounder of the Global Project against hate and extremism. She has more than two decades of experience fighting extremism including leading the Southern Poverty Law Center intelligence project. Is third and final witness jack donohue. He is a former chief of Strategic Initiatives at the new York City Police department. He brings his variance from his time as a leader at the nypd. Thank you for your Extraordinary Service for new york city with the men in blue im a the Great Police Department the greatest Police Department in the world i will allow eat with. I will allow each witness to summarize his opening statement. Thank you to the distinguished members of the subcommittee. Thank you forgiven me the opportunity to testify today. I am a Research Fellow at George Washingtons program on extremism. Im here to talk about the militant segment of the antigovernment Extremist Movement. People who want to change or topple the country by force or a threat of force. Like any large movement, this group goes through cycles and in the months following the 2016 election, supremacy groups experienced a rise. Military extremists either joined these movements or were quiet. They approve of the Current Administration and so there antigovernment rage abated for a time. However, renewed conversations about gun control laws, stress from the pandemic, the mainstreaming of antivaccine conspiracy theories, high unemployment rate, civil unrest in major u. S. Cities, and the extreme divisiveness plaguing the Upcoming Elections have triggered a recent reverb. The movement is not monolithic. The l keepers membership include Police Officers and glittery veterans has shifted from armed stand office standoffs to providing support to Small Businesses violating state harm pandemic orders. An organizing arm guards to protect neighborhoods from violence. The three presenters organization is a hybrid from between a Militia Network and a gun club. This group leaves they only needed 3 of americans to overthrow the current u. S. Government. Each subgroup is independent of the others and there is no leadership for structures. It has become them kept them from becoming a force. The militia is a much mueller segment of the business. Scattered throughout the country, engaged in armed training, have a relatively organized structure and even though many states prohibit their activities, they offer eight they operate with impunity. The idea of a second American Revolution where armed patriots rise up and overthrow a tyrannical government has been the dream of extremists for decades. Most call this the second American Revolution. Members of the weapons board renamed it the boogaloo which later turned into big igloo. Supporters were hawaiian shirts under their body armor and the look went viral. Other militants started copying the shirts and jargon. For most it was just an in joke, an aesthetic that separated those who were in the know from those who were not. Note members are libertarian anarchists. The goal is to hasten the collapse of the government through attacks on police. These are the major players, how they react to Current Events raises many red flags. To worried that any attempt stem gun control regulation could trigger violence. This could include red flag laws, bans on certain types of rifles or any legislation that is viewed as a foot the door leading to gun confiscation. Another potential issue is the pandemic which is facing significant stress on extremist groups. If states return to lockdown status, i am concerned that individuals and small groups will lash out quietly against the government, Law Enforcement, medical professionals, essential workers, contact tracers and medical infrastructure. Some militants driven by conspiracy theories have already turned to armed resistance and have taken of guns to protect Business Owners who want to violate stayathome orders. Michigan has been a hotspot for such activity and in may the state had to cancel legislative sessions because of the threat. I am also concerned for the upcoming election that will spark violent events if the president loses his reelection bid. I am concerned that there will at one of the black lives matter protests. There are too many guns at these events held by too many groups with conflicting goals. You can find that those taking to the streets to protect police or businesses from antifa for when boogaloo joined forces with black lives matter against the police, adding the National Guard and federal agencies and rights the premises groups along with a growing number of leftwing militants and volunteer armed guards, there is the potential street war growing. If there are militant groups and individuals willing to shootout protestersice and just to get that war started so they can use the chaos to accelerate their own plans for revolution, these groups know they need a catalyst, a big event. So they can be the next mcveigh. Most are waiting for the big event but there are some that will do what they have to to force this occurrence. Thank you for your time. Thank you for your testimony. Recognize mr. Donohue. Thank you very much. Good morning members of the subcommittee and chair thompson. , recentlydonohue retired chief from the new York City Police department for 32 years of patrol, intelligence and strategy. The opinions im giving are my own. I am testifying to discuss safety concerns and challenges for Law Enforcement made by the growing phenomenon of militia extremism and the power of online movements to influence violent actions domestically. The use of social media is documented. These cut forms are mobile. In the u. S. We cherish the right for freedom of speech and assembly and social media has been embraced by many to share ideas and opinions on any topic at any time. What is recently observable from social media data is that there is an exponential growth in participation in the cyber social domain coalesced around a revolutionary and extremist themes at either ends of the spectrum. Those extremists have Law Enforcement squarely in their sites. In the early stages to motivate some youth and disaffected to support devices, we know the recruitment started on the social media platforms and moved to encrypted communications to shield criminal conversations from authorities. The same cycle is happening domestically with militia movements on the far right and far left. In may on coauthored the Network ContagionResearch Institute shows that unions become viral and evolved, plant hateful and revolutionary ideas in the public eye often discovered disguised as inside jokes. The boogaloo code word for revolution is an example of that movement. In protests over the lockdowns, followers played out there joke wearing hawaiian shirts and caring carrying semi automatic rifles. Memes shared on the Message Boards game if i assaults on Law Enforcement, encouraging violence through dragon known in the gaming committee. Appears in a forthcoming report, we had records showing antiplease messaging and other farleft media spaces where they have seen special growths in the most recent period of unrest in america. These antigovernment messages have broken into Mainstream Media on facebook and twitter. Memes advocating murder of Law Enforcement and slogans found on the internet used by the farleft were scrawled on the face monument and buildings across america. Memes instructing peaceful protests that can be used as tactical subterfuge for violent action are being widely circulated on social media. What is apparent regardless of ideology is that assaults on and the murder of Law Enforcement that occurred during the recent civil unrest were motivated in part by the themes in the memes and the slogans. It is not unusual for police to be the subject of protest. There has always been inherent tension between Law Enforcement and protest because police are the most visible representatives of government and people are protesting against us. Protest activity is a constitutional right. We in Law Enforcement are sworn to protect that right regardless of the contents of the speech or whatever controversy no matter how controversial it may seem with very limited exceptions. Another right is to bear arms. Some states permit open care early open carry. Others outlaw that practice. Both have withstood constitutional scrutiny with exceptions. I highlight these rights because in real life on the streets when tens of thousands of people are finerled, explaining the points of rationality does not work. That is why police are at an disadvantage and challenged when they become the targets of protests as was more recently observable on the right and left. Intelligence gathering brings its own tension and limitations. Law enforcement needs to prepare for the safety of these incidents. And is smart government there are safeguards in place to prevent overage. What Law Enforcement needs and what is out there come from an open source. When people use encrypted communications, police have zero visibility into those channels and that is where tactics and opportunities for confrontations are shared. Law enforcement has a tough task pleasing events in the best of times. When protesters arrived intent on violence and are carrying semi automatic weapons, the stakes grow accidentally. Militia members know this and Sees Opportunities to amplify their message through direct confrontation with police. What can be done despite social media efforts to minimize the ability of extremist messages, they persist. Media companies are not in the position to identify those who encourage violence. Timeframe to be remarkably short. Law enforcement is the last line of defense against extremist who mobilizes violence and it may be their own lives that they save because they become the ultimate target. The outcomes of an militia and revolutionary extremists online movements are not protectable. The time for acknowledging it and rapidly working to preserve Civil Society is upon us and i thank you for having this hearing. Chairman rose thank you for your testimony. Beirich. Ognize dr. Members of the subcommittee, thank you for inviting me to testify today. My name is heidi beirich, i am the cofounder of the Global Project against hate and extremism. I have been researching for more than 20 years. Todays hearing is of the utmost importance. Face an increasingly violent Extremist Movement composed of an incendiary mix of lights of premises, neonazis and the boogaloo. All are interested in bringing about the collapse of democracy through violence. The accelerators, these extremists are sharing hateful ideologies for correcting internationally in a way that was not before possible. This group is at the defeat of Tech Companies that refuse to express the hate and if streams content on their platforms. The fbi considers the risk of violent as on the same footing as those of Foreign Terrorists like isis. Department,te Government Agencies and independent experts all agree is aight extremism metastasizing problem that this country will be dealing with for the long term. The tragedies in pittsburgh, el paso and christchurch, new zealand are testament to the devastation inspired by these movements abroad. Right now the movements are taking advantage of the pandemic and Racial Injustice protests to spread hate about those they blame for covid19 and to attack peaster peaceful protesters. It is likely the violence will intensify as we approach the november elections. Descriptions of groups and Movement Overall are laid out in detail in my written testimony so if i could take the opportunity to offer recommendations. Nothing is going to stop the growth and violent activity if we dont accept that the Online Platforms are driving extremism. Used what wass then the new technology of the radio to unleash his genocidal views, extremists today do the same with the web. In 2015 the number of perpetrators of terrorist incidents were exposed to violent extremist ideologies almost entirely online rather than in the real world began to rise substantially. Substantially in all forms. Ine platforms or crewmen are where recruitment occurs in strategy and strategy sophisticated. Standard withble how Online Platforms treat content produced by White Supremacists versus islamic extremist. The platforming is the accepted strategy for the latter and practiced by Tech Companies. It would be inconceivable for social media platforms to allow isis propaganda to go unchecked or be monetized, but thats whats happening with White Supremacy. 2017 that Tech Companies began to take kate seriously and ramp up enforcement. It has not been enough. Review civil rights review dozens of youtube videos by the International White nationalists Number Network that were monetized. Ad revenue from businesses and Political Campaign ads. Even after notifying youtube, most of it is still up. If we were to stop the spread of acceleration is meant violence, platforms must enforce policies. Supremacy as it does islamic extremism. It would help establish a baseline of data showing its platform status with extremist content that can be used to make platforms do better. We also need to address extremism in the military, there is way too many active troops in these. We cant be training people to kill and then unleashing them on the public. Act chairmane thompson would help us understand how prioritizing these movements. The extremism review act would direct to a threat assessment performed violence and extremist groups. I would suggest we be very careful in providing legal authorities before understanding what the impact must be. Used ent but largely against marginalized populations to violate civil rights. Closing i would like to say thank you for taking this seriously and having me here. I thank all the witnesses for their extraordinary testimony and would remind the members the chat five minutes to question the panel. I now recognize myself or questions. For questions. I want to get a sense from you will remeasure this threat right now and whats the worst Case Scenario . Where do you see this going . Mr. Donahue lets start with you. Clearly from my testimony i raised the comparisons between violent jihadi recruitment and the techniques used to motivate people to violence. That is certainly true here. What weve seen is the motivation to violence can happen in a moment. Concern that we had is that violence and triggering the events that have happened across United States as heidi mentioned before evening christchurch go to show that the power of what is happening online and the power of the messages are so vera lent that they make sense to certain people and that is where we need to have the ability to have visibility into those networks and the people who are motivating to violence. My biggest concerns are essentially twofold. What he subscribed describe which is an incendiary situation which you find at the protests were people are heavily armed and easily triggered and weve already seen officers shot dead and plots against protesters in las vegas. The attack like we saw in el paso and pittsburgh, this is an International Problem is what im most concerned about. Who usee supremacists terrorism and violence to bring down systems of government, multicultural democracies basically. That has motivated the big mass casualty attacks and thats not can go away because demographics are shifting in much of the western world and they view that as a threat. If we dont intercept how that propaganda is spread on mainstream platforms word allows recruiting, im just afraid the next trip christchurch could be around the corner anywhere here or abroad. We are facing an uphill battle here. You got social media platforms where people can post propaganda, they recruit, actively recruiting younger male members. But then from that point on, they move into private groups and from there they move into places like discord and cherry pick who they think are serious actors and move into places like signal. Trying to police this i think would be impossible. The bigger groups, the bigger propaganda on facebook, i dont think there is a large risk of these groups ever coming together and forming a private army, and very concerned of small cell terrorism. Protesters are addressed, police andcers are at risk possibly infrastructure. To takehe plots was down the power grid during a protest so than they could fire on protesters and the chaos would be horrible because it would be pitchdark. I dont think its can be largescale, i dont get a be coordinated too much through someoneut a possibility who learns new example of the las vegas shooter. Is a very big threat. Mr. Walker. Thank you sir. I want to start with mr. Donahue. With over three decades of nypd experience, you are uniquely qualified to talk about why Law Enforcement is a common target of violent extremist groups. Can you add to the testimony you provided about why this is the case . The impact it has on Law Enforcement and how the current environment is impacting Law Enforcement and their families . Thank you very much Ranking Member walker. Saiddition to what i had in my prepared remarks and in my testimony. Impact isive obviously great. What weve seen are the attacks directly to be sensational, to the true intention is visible arme most of government which is police and that impact on Law Enforcement over the last month and a half or so has been dramatic. Concerne is always a from a tiring out, from how can we continue to respond to repeated negative attacks on Law Enforcement. Whether the physical or emotional with Police Officers and sheriffs. Hours and being exposed repeatedly to the negative media attention. The reason i said is because Police Officers and Law Enforcement are the most visible representative and weve always of whomever ism being protested against and most importantly against the police. You mentioned upcoming research. If youre looking at violence and destruction. Link to the various militia groups. I dont want to tip my hand for the research but what i said in my testimony and written remarks that there has been an expensive growth in both farleft and anarchist social media participation. That is antipolice and antigovernment. The question want to go to is miss mcnabb, you warned or cautioned and are worried about for Gun Legislation, if any Gun Legislation was passed orphan election did not reelect president trump, you were concerned about various Different Levels of civil unrest , you may have used like a war on the streets. Is that something youre seeing from research or your concern . Can you elaborate for a bit. Those are two different issues. Gun control in the reelection of president trump. Gun control has been a high issue for antigovernment extremism for decades pray thats always been a concern. It was one of the factors that pushed mcveigh was a restriction on assault rifles. Its a hot button, is one of the very few things they all agree on brent its one of the few things that bring them altogether. There was proposed legislation in virginia at the beginning of the year and a gun rally was there to protest it. Ordinarily a rally with guns would draw 200 500 people. That rally brought in 22,000. It is a hot issue and most gun owners are not violent, not extremists, but there are a number in the world who talk about if this is going to happen im going to unleash. The reelection of the president is the second issue. Have beenhese guys very pleased with trump, they support him, you can see the hats at the cash in the trump signs. , they want him to continue and they have talked about civil war for years if he does not continue. Thank you. I did know if there is anything recent to encino would expedite this. All of this touched on the direct targeting of Law Enforcement by extremists. How can society and best show support for Law Enforcement and may additional training tools or tools do they need. We should understand that these movements, the militias and so on have for years been targeting Law Enforcement. Of lawlled dozens enforcement officials across the United States. Viewed as annt is arm of the government and its the first line level of attack. In a difficult position. We should understand that and support what the difficult job is and the threats Law Enforcement face. Two Law Enforcement officers were killed in california recently. Boogaloo boys. Se when it comes to Law Enforcement dealing with these threats, there needs to be study of enhancing authorities for them. This a lot of people calling for a domestic terrorism statute for example proposals from the chairman about applying the Foreign Terrorist Organization designation to International White supremacist networks and allow Law Enforcement to use other tools to combat this threat. I think these are avenues that should be investigated. I worry deeply at the implications if those arent used in the right way and thats why in my written testimony i talked abut the need for study. But it should be discussed. Thank you mr. Chairman, i will yield back. Thank you. Thank you mr. Walker. I recognize the chairman of the full committee, chairman thompson. Thank you very much. Witnesses for your testimony. It is how do we get the various platforms. Enhancer ponce ability bring in content respecting civil rights and liberties. But some of the things that we furtherg pushed out enhances the militias. To care for their message. I want each witness to, to what extent should we hold those companies responsible for the content pushed out on the various platforms. If you want to start off with it. Enhanced responsibility social media companies, its , the tower of the and freedia platforms speech. Sharedech thats being on a number of social media platforms obviously goes to provoke the assault. And jeopardizing others that are not involved. The to monitor that speech. Missiles media communities. Gone somewhat in the right direction. Types ofof those extremists speech and or videos altering the shown content of what other people are saying and amplifying messages. Part of it is really empowering the communities that are on the platforms. In coordination with the companies to police them internally. Its not a question of whether police and Law Enforcement can ast, as the few diffusive the number of people are using the internet, its got to fall on them as well as the companies. Your plan for a commission to look into this. I apologize. The process its going on here for too long now, the Civil Rights Organization screaming and yelling and criticizing the Tech Companies and public and then having sort of incremental moves to the situation. I believe its going to take a lot more than that. Itselfbook can submit which then finds it still has major problems on this front as well as others, then this strategy is much as brought the companies along, but i would suggest Congress Call the Tech Companies to account for whats in their terms of service and how they are enforcing those terms of service. At this point most of them claim not to monetize hate content, not to host a lot of aspects of White Supremacy and yet we keep finding it and we keep finding it. So much that facebook was found to have dozens of neonazis on the system recently. I would suggest its time for congress to use its invest powers to call the companies and ask about the procedures and what they are doing and how they do it. Modeled very much on what the European Union has done here which is create monitoring exercises where outside actors look at whats going on and reports are created by the european commission. Caution,last note of age shouldnt just be just Civil Rights Organizations to have to play this role in our society. Its simply asking too much. Miss mcnabb. Im guinness second that. Is theseem organizations chase the news. If theres a sudden influx of news and facebook comes in and does a purge of some of the more violent groups, the problem is the news doesnt often know whats going on in private groups and direct messages. I spent a lot of time developing a contact in this world. Bad they post a shockingly but because the news is not in these private groups and dont report it, some groups are left to fester. Im using facebook as an example per their other groups. With is a violent offense, the first place i go is facebook. Whos claiming credit, whose whack who is laughing about it. Whos saying we can do that better. Im gonna go to Facebook First and foremost. The Boogaloo Movement isnt really a movement, its a dress code, a way of talking, its jargon. On people who belong to it other extremist groups on facebook. It mightve been a White Supremacy and they picked it up somewhere. And yet they are treated as a separate movement. The problem is you are ignoring the underlying areas they came from. They most of the page with 551,000 followers. They simply violent things in the comments. Ive reported those and had one to lead it. I can report them and nothing happens. Unless there is a lot of attention paid to the social media company, they dont have an incentive to do anything at all. Its not really up to civil Rights Groups or even the news to be on all these things. There has to be some external provide an eye on it. There taken a leadership on this. Because asoncerning you said, chief donahue and others, as long as im making money off this product, its hard to pull back. Chairman rose if you remember, we asked several questions about how much are your Revenue Streams is to move devoted to managing content. I dont believe you ask a question. Its like and all we try to do is if youre serious about it and you speak with your resources. Without coming in and have government in a private business, thing we havent in the obligation to the public to make sure these Companies Just cant monetize hate and other things and claim free speech as the reason they are not doing anything. Thank you very much mr. Chairman, youve been gracious with your time and i yield back. Thank you very much. Now recognize ms. Watkins. Thanks for having this hearing. And them midmichigan issue of extremism and hate groups and incidents with those has been on the rise and just very recently from the coronavirus lockdown we had repeated protests in my district protesting on sort of all sides, protesting the lockdown that our governors put in place but also protesting response to the killing of george floyd and weve seen a fourfold increase in the state of michigan in the past year and a half. In instances of hate. Whether its graffiti, violence. One of the things im concerned about is back since the lockdown , we have hate groups that are present in the state of michigan. One on theboys. I was wondering, chief donahue, if you could speak to this group in any way. They are putting the signs on top of their cars, they decay proud boys. I think theres a discussion about whether they are a hate group, can you talk about that group and what you know about them. I would have to defer, i did not know the group specifically so perhaps one of my panelists do. Miss bay ridge. I would happy i would be happy to talk to them at the Southern Poverty Law Center be added their organization to our list of hate groups. Largely on the basis of very ugly antimuslim thinking. The proud boys in some ways were forerunner to the activism we are seeing in the Boogaloo Boys, a group thats turning militant, a certain particular kind of look and showing up at places like these protest movements and there is something to be concerned about. Military justian this week bandits members from being part of the proud boys. That gives you a sense of how seriously another government views the organization. Think the problem right now for the violence seems to be boogaloo folks. I think there have been seven different plots involving them. Led to a pretty terrible situation. And i would focus on them more. Very specifically we had a protest in front of the lansing , in response to the george floyd murder, but there was a number of armed men and hawaiian shirts who showed up at the protest. They were photographed at the scene. We talked talk more about the Boogaloo Boys and what we can expect. The problem with the Boogaloo Boys as there not a cohesive movement. You can have Boogaloo Boys that are White Supremacists and want to harm the protesters, you could also Boogaloo Boys and this is the larger group that are antipolice, not racist and they are siding with the protesters for the george floyd protests. You could actually in a really bizarre world have two boogaloo groups shooting at each other. Shirt, youhawaiian cant really prejudge what that person is there. Back to chief donahue. If you could talk, i held an event in my district with the local fbi and our attorney general because of the rise of incidents of hate in michigan generally and in my history. They talked about this ladder of escalation. Then theres graffiti and nonviolent incidents and how we step up that ladder. In the very long time i have left. In my prepared testimony talked about how people recruited online. Is people arere creating and sharing people modify and shift their dialogue from what was something that wouldve been inside judge and then start showing things that are more violent and i can talk of the specific incidences in the more recent protest were police were involved. There were some terms. Into aboutat turned how do you turn that into something that shows even more violence. The term itself means all cops are bass towards but there were memes that were turned into police cars on fire and the term was morphed in that. So you can see how the terminology, the visuals of the more recent unrest go towards modifying and amplifying a message of violence. Thank you mr. Chairman. We will now into a second round of questioning and start by recognizing thank you very much. Im out in the field. I hope you can hear me and see me. We are suffering from being in the epicenter now of covid19. This is a very important hearing. Theseompson come we seen intrusions with the vietnam war. Im interested in asking all the would be theat ultimate results of not dealing with the strange groups. Who can characterize important protests. Were people protesting from their heart and beliefs in the country. From their belief in peaceful the plightt would be of the nation without addressing these particular elements directly . Legislativeirectly, fixes, continuous oversight like this committee is doing and i would ask each witness to provide their response. Speaking abouty boogaloo and proud boys and other groups that have been known to do this in other areas of the history of the United States. Certainly. Result, we all believe in the constitutional democracy of our republic and the ability to protest with righteous rage is important. But petitioning the government, what we are seeing in saying what we are seeing is violence that is coming out of peaceful protests or being usurped at peaceful protests where people are petitioning the government for the right types of change and for accelerations purposes. You cant have a fine discussion about the Constitutional Rights when their tens of thousands of people protesting. Civility is the thing we need to have at protest. And thats lacking in many instances when you have acceleration missed show up with and intent on violence intent on occupation, where is the righteous rage shown so we can have change in government where its appropriate as opposed to violent revolution and thats where Police Become in the headline spread we need to learn from our past and from our mistakes. We need to move beyond that. There is a path forward but it is not violent insurrection. Something tot do address the spread of this material online, the rise of these movements whether its with Law Enforcement enhancements, research, oversight, i think we are facing essentially more mass terrorist attacks mass terrorist attacks el paso. Not just in the United States. Whites premises flourishing see a, we are going to rise in hate crimes much like weve seen from the pandemic as hate speech has been flown against asians and jews. We are going to see more terrorists taking advantage of Current Conditions whether its directly targeting protesters, which is already happened by members of these Extremist Movements. There are other scary things happening like neonazis who going to infect covid with others. Peoples a huge amount of unfortunately who have multicult who dont want the systems and dont like our changing demographics and are willing to use violence. Mr. Donahue. I went first. Im sorry. My biggest fear is that there will be active terrorism and active protest places that will put a damper on people willing to go there and make people afraid to go on the streets in protest. Thats terrible for our system of democracy. Im also afraid as i mentioned in testimony we are coming up on a street war. Theyre way too many guns at large protest events held by people with differencing differing views. Is a lot of paranoia. Some people bring it as a defense mechanism and some is an aggressive one. Untilver know whos who the shooting starts. Im terrified there will be a shootout. That will put a damper on the protest. Thats a stressful situation. Flowdifficult to stop the and stop them from speaking. But there is no counter voice. We shouldnt be waiting to see if the Research Memo is leaked before we know what the governments view is on these groups. I would like to see some form of public papers put out talking about who the groups are, how asy are dangerous, right now they come out looking for information and should be public record. That should be public information. Very quickly, what i got from intelligencetic positively to inform us. Weve seen homeowners, misinterpreting how deep should we begin to attitudete speech and legislatively. Modernize ourd to perception of how we interact so the different groups are not demonized. These people have First Amendment rights, but i do think as i said earlier that congress has responsibility to find out what is going on on this front. Companies are allowed to write their own terms of service. It seems to me that our government has a right to find out whether they are being enforced. World wherethe same for some its a terrible things about black people are jews or muslims. Now millions of people are potentially the target. They have been sucked into the ranks of these movements. Where its got to start. Thank you very much mr. Chairman mr. Ranking member. I yield back. Thank you for this hearing very important. We now recognize mr. Walker for a second round of questions. If we have some each of you the extremist content. Mr. Donahue called for social media norad version. Think inrities you individual Law Enforcement. If you think i hesitate to give police more authority to monitor and its a problem area. Unfortunately we on this left right idea wears we should be looking at this as a violent fringe. Police i think they need to be looking at rightwing even more than left at this moment. When he said they have a blind spot. Video of they protest. In portland or seattle, you have a line of Police Officers separating leftwing protesters and rightwing protesters. If you watch, the Police Officers have their back to heavily armed people standing behind them and are facing leftwing with the assumption that leftwings was going to harm them where there is the people standing behind them have some pretty rabid antipolice ideas as well. A number of Police Officers for or otherith 3 tattoos patches, these are extremist groups. Police need to be aware that some of these extremist groups want to kill them and thats not really coming through. They need to be a counter voice. Fbi,ly in security or explains these are what they are capable of. Police have some ability to discern rightwing protesters from right wing extremist. I spent the better part of 20 years in two different republican administrations and a Democratic Administration trying to convince federal Law Enforcement that the threat from rightwing extremists should not be abandoned. Now isis, thats too important. Looking rightwing extremism which was dropped. Created rightwing extremism. So i think it would be very helpful exactly with the federal government is doing. Adjusted tracking extremist content and imminent violence and social media as a whole whether its from the left or the right as far as what kind of tools or Access Authority should have in doing so. Im saying this is because the facts are right now that rightwing extremism is the bigger problem. If we were talking with 1960s i would not debate that. I just think the focus has to be there, thats where the deaths are coming from. It could change tomorrow, but right now thats the problem. I think no side and that hades that example. There are authorities that exist within the federal government and the attorney general guidelines on domestic intelligence. Domestic and ii believe in the nypd. For the types of intelligence investigation. Said in myd , i understandmony and how it can help event violence and injury and death. More recent protests , molotov cocktails mean throw Police Officers and Police Officials being beaten over the head. Know there is no one side and in fact when you look at the thects in california and death you mentioned earlier. They are incredibly painful and we need to have support through dhs and the intelligence training at the Regional Intelligence Center level. You mentioned from the testimony. With more conversations about that. The entirerstanding sphere of whats happening. Encouraged by all these things. Getting an update on that work. I see my time is expired. I appreciate my yield back. Agree. Mpletely its clear that extremism is not threatening the lives across the country. Commitment. D made a extremism is also affecting concerts and rights to congregate. Undeniably amplified across steroids. Two are anything,s is not do to crack down. Across the spectrum, are we putting the lives Law Enforcement and lawabiding americans unnecessarily at risk. The answer is yes. Longterm remains to be seen, the groups build and build without any dampening effect and engagement in random acts of violence and then they burn out. Atrt i think we are looking casualties. Could be three, could be 50, who knows and could be protesters, it could be press or medical workers it could be anybody as long as there is chaos and they will do what they have to do to bring chaos to the situation. Nothing think if you do , people will die. I agree. I think if you do nothing to try and stop trends are leading to this, we will have exactly what jj described. Its very clear that the tactics and rhetoric is being turned up. We are watching and need to acknowledge that we need to preserve Civil Society and i believe Congress Needs to act. Politicians often get lost in my new show. Thatve a group of experts have bipartisan support in terms of their stature and expertise and they are unanimous that if we do not act as congress to combat extremism and activity in america and the way which their ,ctivity is amplified lawenforcement officials and lawabiding americans will die. When that happens we have no excuse. Can putely hope we hyper politics aside and act together to figure out how we do something. Its of the need to be signed into law, democrats under publicans need to agree on something. For that we will go on another round of questioning. Continue the line of questioning i had in my first question. U. S. A highranking Police Officer and chief for many years , the latter of escalation. You talked about on the internet and how something goes from inside joke. For the people of midmichigan could you talk about that latter of escalation. Its arts become vandalism, harassment and potentially violence. You talk about how there is a theyr a ladder before perpetrate real violence. I was hoping you could walk us through what that looks like. I think it probably defies a logical order. Report theed a potential risk factors from radicalization to violent extremism in the context of the experiences from the u. K. In canada. From people who are seeking to support extremism abroad. I dont want to say im a social scientist, these are examples that are other experts. What you can among see our people who have the desire for status to want to belong or people who desire action or adventure, from people that have serious grievances that feel under threat and have enough subversives attitudes. Those are all part of that contribute to can radicalization and violence. Community members, members of their faith. And potentially people online. Identifying and toing from radicalization motivation to extremism. And as we said before and are prepared testimony, that timeframe that is specifically in pittsburgh. That murderous rampage went from a web host moments before going in those murders. Then proceeded to. It requires observation from many. Mr. Chairman i yield back. Thank you very much. Line of questioning previously. Believe its important for the government to have as part of his actions expanded resources to mitigate some of the intense dangers. That of an evidence in this hearing. Emails and the social media for the synagogue killing. I also know that black lives Matter Movement is a civil rights movement, its a Generational Movement that has drawn the attention of the nation. Latinx, but all americans understand black lives matter. Media, lack of governmentng the looking at these accelerators can interfere with the election, can be dangerous for those going to vote in order to provoke something catastrophic whats your response to this ports of the government using resources, understanding and being able to know where these are in this difficult time. I think thats a very important point you are making. The Racial Justice movement in black lives Matter Movement is a particular target of these organizations. These are people you want to stop from expressing their views and performing reforming american democracy in a positive direction. The government needs to be paying attention to this. Be watching these movements very carefully where theyre getting into violence in the online space. The need to be working with academics to study these movements to keep on top of these trends. The government needs to bring oversight to the online space. And yet it keeps popping up. Can have to be on in the months leading up to 2018ction to remember in there were four terrorist attacks in a month including the tree of life synagogue attack. In just a few weeks. In terms of the actions in 2018, which allows certain candidates to really take advantage of the divide that is going on or attempt to be going had been used as an instigator to divide people. In my knowledge in the eye sees congress and subserve, meaning whatend the constitution, roles do guns have in the provoking and the provoking of the Second Amendment on potential speech have in potentially impacting the elections . How important is it for the government to be played into safety laws as gun that have been promoted. I lost my connection for about the five the past five minutes. I am just logging back in. Play inroll will guns the encroaching elections and the provoking of the Second Amendment, using it as an excuse against people who want gun safety. All these issues provoking what we would want to be Peaceful Elections in 2020 that accelerants would use these components to disrupt elections. Obviously skewing people you need a gun toting advocate in order to win as opposed to someone wants to bring the nation together. What does that do in adding to the accelerants approach to disrupting Peaceful Demonstrations . Guns brainpower. Bring power. Some are using that power to intimidate and in the worst Case Scenarios using them to kill. The boogaloos who were arrested in las vegas were also from an accelerant, they were planning on bombing people. Another recent arrest was a car bomb, another was a man who want to globe a hospital with a car bomb. Guns are visible and intimidating. If anythings going to cause protesters to be afraid to go out, its the presence of a large army group. Thank you for that testimony. I think its clear this hearing is vital that action should be taken in particular dealing with the action by the government that cant sit idly by, the cant be leaning an indication. Groups liker boogaloo and proud boys. Dealing with particularly the jewish community, i look forward to moving on every one of these issues. So with that i yield back. Protecting Law Enforcement officials, millions of people as they call for Racial Injustice for Racial Justice in this country and protecting the rights our constitution and that will require real action on our part. Thank you i yield back. I think the witnesses for their valuable testimony and the members for their questions. They may have additional questions for the witnesses but we ask you respond in writing to those. The committee record shall be kept open for 10 days. Hearing no further business. [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. Visit ncicap. Org] [captions Copyright National cable satellite corp. 2020] White House Press secretary Kayleigh Mcenany holds a press briefing this afternoon. Watch it live on cspan. Chairssional black caucus congresswoman karen bass talks about Police Reform efforts hosted by the National Press club and our live coverage eastern. Treasury secretary Steven Mnuchin appears before the house andl Business Committee department of treasury pandemic program. Live coverage begins friday. Barr this month, william appears before the house judiciary committees general oversight hearing. On tuesday. Watch live coverage of the minutia hearing Steve Mnuchin hearing friday. Listen on the go with the cspan radio app. The u. S. House and Senate Return on monday to resume legislative is this following over the work period fourth of july holiday. The u. S. House considers the 2021 National Defense authorization act with both expected as early as 11 30 a. M. Eastern. The senate convenes at 3 00 p. M. And resume debate on the nomination of Russell Vought to be director of office of management and budget he has been serving in an acting capacity since january 2019. The senate limited of it and advanced his nomination on july 2 on a partyline vote of 4744. Votes on, the Senate Confirmation of the nomination. Live coverage of the house on cspan and live coverage of the senate on cspan2. Joins us now via zoom for a conversation on schools reopening. The president has made it clear that he wants schools open in the fall and has gone so far as to say last week that he will cut off funding for schools that do not reopen. Can he do that . Guest my understanding of that is no or it would be difficult for them to do that. Mostiggest thing is that federal funding has already been sent out for the school year. The second thing is that co