Transcripts For CSPAN Atlantic Council Discussion With Secretary Of State Pompeo 20240712

Front page, the hash tag for the twitterratti among you. Its our honor to host the 70th secretary of state, mike pompeo, former director of the Central Intelligence agency, former member of congress, former u. S. Army officer, finished first in his class at west point, Harvard Law School graduate, and of course, much more. Im fred kemp, president and ceo of the Atlantic Council and mr. Secretary, this is a heroic day. The uae, israel, and bahrain are set to sign an accord, first theigned abraham accord, first such agreement between israel and an agreement in more than a quarter century. The leaders will sign with the foreign ministers. We have a lot to discuss and half hour. In half hour. The china issues, but lets start with the middle east, although i know you have a few prepared comments. My first question would be, looking at the longterm implications for the u. S. And the region of this accord. How does the u. S. Alliance structure look longer term . Then dig into the middle east. First, thank you for having me, it is a big day, as soon as we wrap up here, literally, ill ahead to the white house for the historic opportunity for the signing of documents with the reality and thats where i begin with the Trump Administrations approach to the middle east. I have prepared remarks and ill skip them for the sake of having a good conversation. That strategy began with the reality, for decades, this town, Foreign Policy with respect to the middle east gave the palestinians a veto right that they could act in a way that prevented any arab from engaging with the most important in the middle east, whether that be commercial, security, relationships, all the way to how nations interact. We took a different view, a that the peace, primary stabilizing force in the middle east was not the conflict between israel and the palestinians, but rather the threat by extraterritorial ambitions in iraq. We identified iran as a strategic threat to the United States of america and began to lay out a set of policies that would deliver security for the American People. I was in doha this weekend and it is not disconnected. For the first time, afghans sat down together to begin to pound out what a reconciled peaceful afghanistan would look like. It is a recognition of the reality of the things that america has accomplished, fewer than 200 al qaeda left in afghanistan today. We are now delivering a set of outcomes that will reduce the costs in blood from our american servicemen and women, in treasure, from the american taxpayer, and risk, to the United States of america. So what well see today at the white house is a set of countries that came to the same conclusion that we did, what was best in their sovereign interest and recognize the relationships with the state of israel and build up security relationships around that. A coalition that has been in the works for three plus years now. I heard someone say, boy, this happened overnight. I can assure you, this has taken all the efforts under President Trumps leadership for three years now to get us to this place today. And the question of what kind of impact this could have on the u. S. Alliance structure, could there be techtonic shifts . Tectonic shifts . What are the longerterm implications for the region and the United States and the region . I think this recognizes the reality that the gulf states have all recognized. It shouldnt go without notice not only have these nations chosen to recognize israel, but when the gulf states all got together and the palestinians demanded that there be a statement denouncing what took place, that did not occurment that did not occur, frankly. The only two countries that have vehemently denounced this were iran and turkey. And so, yes, there is a big shift in how these alliances are set. The Previous Administration took an iran center focused, funneled hundreds of millions to the Islamic Republic of iran under the hezbollah to undermine lebanese and iraqi sovereignty and stability and created chaos inside of syria. This administration has taken a fundamentally different approach to creating an opportunity for increased stability in the middle east and less risk to america. Youve mentioned iran. What are the implications for iran, do you believe . This week, reported to be an assassination attempt for the u. S. Ambassador to south africa. As you know, mr. Secretary, i was in the middle east at the time that we hit qasem soleimani, the iraqi general and the iraqi command earthquake. That assassination attempt was ostensibly to be in revenge for that hit. So i think the specific question is the implications of this agreement to iran, but also, a little bit of context, where you think we are right now in that struggle. Well, we should take the iranians word what they think about these agreements. They think this fundamentally is a detriment to their security. They have made accusations about their muslim brothers that are outrageous, and its frankly showed the true antisemitic nature of the regime in iran, as well. I dont want to comment on the intelligence, but the iranians didnt need an action by the United States to conduct assassination campaigns around the world. This has been their model for 40 years, now this, too. Their model of conducting political assassinations in europe and other places and building out networks and capabilities, proxy forces around the world. This is the iranian model. What we have done is strive to build out a set of understandings that denies the regime the capabilities and you can see it. You can see a weakened capacity from hezbollah. You can see them scratching and clawing and turning to narcotics activities to generate revenue. You can see whats happening in iraq, and the greater space. Shia militias putting the monopolies back in the hand of iraqi leadership. All of these things because of President Trumps fundamental understanding the way we had been conducting our business in the middle east for decades hpt for decades had not delivered on american security. And we are now getting to that place where well be able to do that. Thank you for that. Lets shift to china. As i talk to people observing the Trump Administration . s Foreign Policy the trip administrations Foreign Policy, they point to the middle east and china as the areas where theres probably at this point the most lasting legacy. Some believe your speech on china at the Nixon Library and museum was one of historic significance in july, following the speeches of the National Security advisors, the fbi director, and the attorney general, theres direct comparisons being made to Ronald Reagan and his trust and verify. You called china for its quote, desire for global, and how would you view this comparison to reagan toward the soviet union and pompeo and trump now towards china and do you want what reagan ultimately got, the collapse of the economy . The outcome is were seeking to ensure the rulesbased system that benefitted not only the United States of america, but freedom loving people around the world is the dominant force for the century that were in as well. Thats the objective set. Thats in fact when i talked about chinese desire for hedge money. Thats what im speaking to. That is what they are trying to undermine. The Chinese Party says, we should take them at their word when xi jinping is talking about national rejuvenation, hes not talking about a party, having a good day and a celebration. Hes talking about the middle kingdom. Hes talking about the central ideas of chinese nationalism and the marxist leninist underpinning of his regime. He is dedicated to that and committed to it. Hes put resources, and a model highly developed. They sponsor enterprises in the military fusion program. Thats are things that xi jinping knows and for a long time the west sat on its hand and turned the other cheek. What i spoke at the Nixon Library most clearly was the need to reorient and recognize that whatever the policies were chosen back in the 1970s, whether they may well have made sense at the time, no longer make sense for the security of the American People. This isnt just a security issue, this is a fundamental understanding about how economies grow and how weve preserved jobs and Wealth Creation and prosperity here in the United States of america. This is central to the Trump Administrations Foreign Policy, i believe its going to be central to every administrations Foreign Policy for years to come. Host Trump Administration critics say it would be easier to counter china, as you said for years to come into the future administrations if we had done more to rally allies. I know youve been in asia and europe doing exactly that. Where do you feel youve succeeded . Where do you have worries . When you look at germany, south korea, japan, even the uae, he they all have china as their number one trading partner at the moment. Mike pompeo fred, thats an important question and ive seen this critique. Let me give you two thoughts. First the most important ally to have on this is the American People. The American People need to fundamentally understand the threat thats imposed on them and youve seen ive traveled the United States, im going to travel to the state capital next week to talk about the threat from the united front from inside the United States. Youve seen what weve done to those five in houston, and thats been going on a long time and said, well, too bad. Goodness gracious, we have an open country theyre going to spy and steal our stuff. Were not going to do that. The most Important Group we need to take the case for convince the American People of a threat and challenge and i think weve gone a long way into communicating transparently why it is the case tens of millions of jobs have been stolen through the chinese predatory in the test to the chinese predatory Economic Activity in the United States and cannot continue and that connects to the piece to your point, the international allies, ive spent my year and a half as director of the Central Intelligence agency and now coming on two half years as secretary of state all around the world. Talking to them. Not coercively, not threateningly, just data, just facts about what the Chinese Communist party is doing to their people and to their country, to the threats that opposes their sovereignty, and i must say, it has been rewarding in the last six or to watch the shift, the world awakened and my view that the tide has turned. Whether its their recognition of the coverup that took place with respect to the chinese virus. Whether its the predatory activity now falling flat all across africa, whether its the countries who i spoke with, in meetings last week coming to understand that these attacks on their Economic Activity inside their resource zones are something that they have the capacity to stand up to so long as america is prepared to do it alongside them. I think these are powerful shifts in the worlds view of the threat from the Chinese Communist party and i think commercial activity, that engaging with china, will reflect those risks. Ive seen it, ive seen it from American Business leaders. They understand now much more clearly the Political Risk of risk associated with operating inside a country dominated and controlled by an i controlled by a single party, the Chinese Communist party. Host general jim jones, executive chairman emeritus of the Atlantic Council former National Security advisor, supreme allied commander of europe, sends in a question along those lines. Digging a little bit deeper. It seems to many of us that china has made europe an epicenter, almost a target of its global efforts. Youve been to europe recently, youve talked to people. Specifically, youve signed secure 5gmous, slovenia, elsewhere. His question is, how will you effectuate those mous, and do we have an alternative to huawei to offer our friends and allies . Mike pompeo jim asks, as he always does, a good question. What we can do in the United States, we have the capacity to control information, for example, that comes into our embassies. I will give this as a microexample. Weve now told the world that information coming to our embassies must only come from trusted vendors. That means they cant come across a system that has the capacity to flow information back to the Chinese Communist party or mms or National Security apparatus. Thats a microexample. We are building these systems , australians,s french, japanese, indians, each of whom have come to have an understanding of the threat. As for alternatives, i was very distressed to find the gap between huawei and American Technology with respect to 5g or for that matter, western technology technology. But the two last years ive watched erickson and nokia take up the mantle and others with the process, im confident there will be Cost Effective deliverable from western trusted vendors that can often the same services, better services, at comparative cost. We always joke about between airbus and boeing being state subsidized. That is childs play compared to what the Chinese Communist party does. These were companies that were built on stealing American Technology, bringing it to the homeland and then turning around and dumping it into america and around the world and then deleting countries. And then bullying countries. I think the nation should show up and say its free, theyve now come to know the real cost with untrusted vendors in their system and over time, i think the world will come to recognize thats not the right path and you will see western technologies that are verifiable, trustworthy and transparent come to dominate the telecommunications market. Host and then whats your vision then for an end state . Decoupling seems unlikely with a peer competitor as integrated in the World Economy as china is. So where do we land . Where is a safe and good place to land with this strategy . Mike pompeo yeah, its a good question. Ive gone back and read the histories we thought wed land when we challenged the soviet union. No one had a sense how that would unfold. I will tell you theres much to unfold here as well. We know what it will ultimately look like and we into that the Chinese Communist party will make decisions that well have to respond to. But what it looks like, it likes like a world that is controlled and operated in a way that freedom loving nations and rule loving nations and lawabiding nation will come to love. Not by a regime, or have the states under their economic um under their economic thumb. What it will look like inside of china, ng that the Chinese People will have a heavy say in and the chiensnese communist party will have to the make decisions. Theyre not ten feet tall. Challenges faced inside of china as they attempt this play for global hegemony. And i hope that what everyone on the call will take away is the theory so many have been talking about for the past 10 years. Its predicated on conflict between the United States and the Chinese Communist party because the United States is a declining nation is fundamentally false, it misunderstands who we are as americans, were not a declining nation and the Chinese Communist party is seeing for the first time that america is going to stand up for itself, respond in ways that are fair and reciprocal, and defend american interests wherever we find them. Host thank you, mr. Secretary. Most americans, most people in the world have not heard of something called the three Cs Initiative. Youve been advancing this in your trips to europe and your most recent trip to europe. We have a soft spot for this because the concept was originally born at the Atlantic Council. It is, for listeners, its a northsouth corridor of transport, transportation, energy. It doesnt really replace eastwest, but more deeply integrates Central Eastern European Countries with the European Union and beyond. And what do you see, in poland ambassador an advocate for this, adam bowler, running the International Development corporation has put some potential funding on the table i think has motivate this had to go further and theres going to be a summit in aestonia soon. What does this achieve and why have you gotten behind the idea . Pompeo its a fine idea, an important idea about thinking about a different part of european infrastructure. Youd asked the question earlier about europe. I always try not to respond to questions generically with respect to europe, because youre talking about dozens of nations with deeply different views. This is another example where you have a Baltic States that have come to recognize their security is separate and different from what you might find in other places in europe. Have taken so they on the mantle of their own security. Weve offered up to a billion dollars for support for the three Cs Initiative and weve provided support, too, through our extended readiness efforts, and Rotational Forces and operating in those regions as well and put a diplomatic push in connecting the countries to your point on the northsouth axis. In light of what were seeing in belarus today, this becomes more important. Is this also to a certain extent a russia play or china play . How do you view it strategically . Secretary pompeo both weve certainly been working with the initiative to recognize the threat that the Chinese Communist party and that they impose to nato and nations as well, whether those are Cyber Threats or threats from space or communication threats, Telecommunications Infrastructure that could deny nato the operational capabilities that it will need in time of conflict. So it is certainly the case that there is an effort to make sure that there is an effort to make sure we are respecting the threats that are imposed not only by the Chinese Communist party, but certainly by the nato historic addversarial relationship with russia as well. Host thank you for that answer. Mr. Secretary, one of your great attributes, you dont like to talk about yourself, but im still going to ask you a question about that. President trump made it clear through your own through his own comments last year that youd consider a run for the senate in kansas yet you decided to stay at state. And you spoke of staying as well should there be a second trump term. What motivated that decision, and what do you hope to accomplish in secretary of state this year, and if into a second term, what would you add onto that . Secretary pompeo yeah, fred, look, i love kansas, my wife and i miss it dearly. That was the attractive piece considering the race, but we never, frankly, considered running very actively. We always knew we had this incredible privilege to lead the United States department of state to work in the Trump Administration to try and layout try and lay out what ive been talking about this morning, these central underpinnings, a reaganesque model that says were going to be realitybased, do things that deliver good outcomes for the people of the United States of america where well respect all of our allies and friends, well build out coalitions of the likeminded to deliver these outcomes that matter to the American People , and so President Trumps reelected, im sure it will be a conversation. Well see what comes after that. Theres still a lot of work to do. Theres the challenge thats presented by the Chinese Communist party remains. Were partway into achieving the objective weve laid out, and theres a lot of work to do and id love to be a part of that. Host and if you are reflecting on your time so far as secretary of state, what do you see as disappointments . Would venezuela be on that, north korea be on that . I know nothing is done until its done. Where do you wish we might have been able to do better . Secretary pompeo its a little early to start the reflection process, i am still so focused every day. To your point, we still have americans held hostage in too many places arounded the world. Weve had a good number of successes, we have brought a lot of people home and we are proud of that but anytime theres one american held unlawfully somewhere, something i think and work on every day. As for north korea, which you mentioned, we had hopes that we could make further progress, that chairman kim would go in another direction. Its gone quiet publicly, but theres work going on between ourselves, our allies, the japanese and south koreans, and with efforts with the north koreans for them to understand where there might be opportunity as time goes on. Host the other thing you dont get asked about much, but i think is interesting, is this commission on unalienable rights. And also your whole mantra on the founding principles of United States. One quote from something you recently said, we cant confront beijing or other gross hr violators in the World Without understanding the roots of our Foreign Policy through the lens of our founders intent. How important is that to you in your core, and what do you mean by that . Secretary pompeo ive had this is something ive cared about my entire adult life since i was a young soldier. The idea that america is a deeply moral nation and has founding principles on which morality is based. So i have an opportunity to watch both as a member of congress and now in the executive branch what i consider to be an enormous crisis of human rights in the 21st century. Nations like iran and china use human rights language to cover up for the most unbelievable Human Rights Violations. Whats taking place in west indo china is unrivalled, i call it the stain of the century. I undertook a project, i commissioned a former professor to lead people from every abrahamic religion abroad to talk about how americas Foreign Policy ought to be based on its human rights, and ought to be grounded in the american founding. So they went to work and wrapped up the report and i hope everyone goes online and grabs it. Seven languages, pick which one you want read it in. But it comes the understanding of our declaration of independence, our constitution, u. N. Declaration from 1948 and sets a moral foundation for now the principles on which american Foreign Policy ought to base its human rights activity. So i hope it sets the foundation for my organization, the United States department of state for years to come, how we think about human rights in the world and the Central Foundation upon which it ought to be based, and were going to do it well and preserve the Human Dignity that each of us deserves because we are simply made in the image of god. A final question, again, going back to thet the Nixon Library and nixon museum. Clearly in those days, the nixonkissinger relationship was at the core of these efforts to lead china in the right direction and you quote some interesting comments from that period of time that recognize that things may have to be altered if they dont go the right direction. How do you characterize if it was nixonkissinger then, trumppompeo now, what are the dynamics toward mapping out the relationship to china. Where an earlier trump was very focused on getting a trade deal and this is a very different place were in right now and im just wondering if you could talk a little about the dynamics of that relationship. Secretary pompeo fred, i appreciate that. When i was cia director nominate today come to state, i called secretary of state jim bakker and he visited me at langley. The very first thing he said, may be the only thing that he said for the three hours we were together, he said a secretary of state who doesnt have the capacity to speak on behalf of the president is just some guy out on a trip. So i have made every effort to make sure that President Trump and i were speaking the same language, his language. He got the electoral votes, i cant get any. We were talking about things in ways when i was talking about something representing the United States, wherever i was travelling, i was speaking on behalf of the president of the United States of america. I worked hard making sure that relationship is good and sound, and we had a set of common understandings. We dont always agree, i make recommendations to him and he takes some of them and some of them he has a different view, and i go execute them as vigorously as i can and drive my team to do something. You mentioned something fred, and i know this is the last question, i appreciate this opportunity today. You mentioned the president began talking about economics issues and trade issues were with china and weve now moved past that. I dont see these as disconnected. The central threat that the Chinese Communist party, the tool theyve used to build out the capacity is economic might, the power of a market 1. 4 billion people, where it can suck in American Businesses to do the most outrageous things and tell the chinese, thats okay, you can get away with Human Rights Violations in your country, were going to take a pass. That is, we may oppose things here and support groups here in the United States, but were not going to do a thing to protect human rights inside of china , even though we take lots of money from them. These economic tools that the Chinese Communist party uses are the central pillar of its power. The United States needs to respond in a way that reflects that. All of the activity were take is driven by a comprehensive response to the challenges presented by xi jinping. By xi jinpings ccp. Host we understand what a busy day this is, we want to send our congratulations to the administration, the people who made this a longlasting piece on which the whole region can build. Washington journal. Every day we take your calls live on the air and we will discuss policy issues that impact you. California democratic commerce men Jared Huffman will talk about the wildfires in the west and climate change. 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