Then, another look at democrat president ial candidate joe biden on the death of Ruth Bader Ginsburg and the upcoming confirmation process. Is ourharold holzers second hour about your new book the president s versus press. While i invite people to find the first hour, for those who havent seen it, whats that the sis of your new book . Is we may the thesis believe we are living through the most chaotic and unpleasant confrontational era ever between a president and the media. But in fact, its a long tradition in American Government thatmerican media history the president and press do not share the same interests and have been out war, and a sense, ever since george washington. Startedrom the time you this project, was it always it versus the press . Mr. Holzer im glad you asked. No. Originally it was the president s and the press. In my research about president kennedy, i found that he gave a very defensive speech in 1961 for the American Publishers Association in new york city. Said, ing the speech he wanted to call this speech the president versus the press because you are not always living up to your responsibility to protect the american interest. And i have to be talked down so i could call up the president. But i like the first version better, he put it all out on the who and kennedy is the one got our interest. Susan is that why he also earned the photo on your cover . L, i went backl and forth on that and did my myderful and went to wonderful editor team. There is a great shot of Lyndon Johnson looking sour. Which hadnnedy one, photographers and newsmen appealed to me. A softadmit that i have spot for jfk. I was 11 years old when i was elected. And his vigor, as he himself would put it, is what really interested me in politics when i was a kid. Susan its clear from your index and your notes that you did Extensive Research for this book. It was interesting to me that one name kept popping up again and again in your chapters. Thats a longterm White House Correspondent helen thomas. Who is she for people that dont will the name . And why was she so important in your storytelling . Mr. Holzer i picked a few people who lasted for several president s and could look at ahead and back. Another groundbreaking woman reporter who was known for her to questions, that often triggered a laughter when president kennedy responded. She started out in the roosevelt era and faced pretty sexist comments and teasing. But she helped establish the right of women to be a president ial to be in president ial press conferences. Helen thompson was the upi correspondent who was sent to cover the birth of the Kennedy Kennedys son in 1960. She covered mrs. Kennedy and earned her way into the white house beat. And she lasted, as you know, until the obama administration. She was 90 years old, being helped up the press room to the Briefing Room for press and still reporting. She was feisty and she wrote some very funny and revealing books about her experiences. Those of us who have been watching press conferences for a long time no her. And the woman know her. And the woman who always got the First Western because she was in the front row and was the senior reporter. She always said thank you mr. President in during those formal structured briefings. In the book she asked very, very tough questions. She was the woman that president s loved to hate. Someone once said that she was the woman president s loved to hate, but she kept asking those ferocious questions. She undid herself at 90 by giving an answer to someone on the white house lawn about the middle east. Of arabic heritage herself. That did not become known until later in her career. She basically said to this father who had come for jewish history data the white house, should gothe israelis back where they came from, to germany or poland. At then she was not working for the upi, she was a hearst columnist. But she left. Susan we will start this conversation with fdr. About him he right, few president s were more gifted and better prepared in the art of pr. How did that play out . Mr. Holzer he had been a governor of new york for two two year terms. He mastered the art of the press conference and radio address as governor. Inthen, on election night, the absence of a victory speech in 1932, in the absence of a concession from herbert hoover, and this was not a closed election, was wheeled into the second floor parlor of his home. Where i should state very probably that i now work, it is now the roosevelt public house policy institute at Hunter College in manhattan. In 1932 it was the roosevelts family home. He gave an adjusted the people. It was, in essence, the first of a series of brilliant two dozen speeches not speeches, but conversations he held with the American People during the depression and during world war ii. It revolutionized president ial communications. Susan the big issue with him gness topress willin hide his disability. How does that look to us . Mr. Holzer it looks like an obligation of responsibility. He was certainly capable of doing the job for 12 years and a month. Walk did not to hamper his might or his heart, although he did suffer from heart disease, literally, at the end. There was general disagreement between photographers and the president elect and the president. Guy,said, he is this nice hes trying to help us, hes trying to help the country, why should we add to his burden . There was a news blackout, or a photography blackout, and he pursued the blackout. He got a magazine to do a story about his health. It sort of reminds us of what donald trump did when he produced his doctors alleged record that he was the healthiest patient he had ever treated. Overvelt got doctors to go his medical treatment and say he was healthy as a horse, with no mention of his enduring paralysis of the polio he suffered in 1921. So what began as a gentlemans agreement and a little bit of nudging from the president , continued when it became the rule of the right house and the very tough press secretary stephen early. The photographs of him in the wheelchair were not permitted. Photographs of him being lifted into a car or using his braces were not permitted. By then, photographers had violated that code if photographers had violated that code they could have their film ripped out of their cameras. They would purposely jostle a photographer who was trying to take a revealing picture. It showed that there was a connection between roosevelt and the press thats unique. Susan we learned in our first hour from you that adams, and lincoln all crackdown during war. When world war ii broke out, what was the Roosevelt Administration supposed to accomplish . Mr. Holzer he enjoyed hiding a little bit. He went to a conference with Winston Churchill in canada, but he did not tell the press he was going. He said he was going on a vacation and his son reported that he loved the idea that he fooled them. Winston churchill arrived to this conference with his own press contingents. The American Press was mightily annoyed by that. Exercised loose lips sink ships policy once the war began. He reduced the number of press conferences he had hosted. Notingway, its worth that no president in American History met the press as often as fdr. He helped 998 press conferences over 12 years. Those who claimed that he would diminish to a point where he can no longer leave, should look at his last press conference a day before he died and see how he manipulated the press. How he did not allow a guest, the president of the philippines, to say a word. How he reminded everybody everything is off the record and set i will see you back in washington. We have a transcript for every one of his 990 press conferences. He was a master of that form. Two days a week, tuesdays and fridays. Withholding access was the perfect formula for control. Famous for those fireside chats. We will listen to 30 seconds of one from 1939 and then talk about how he used those. [video clip] will the people of this newsry, while receiving through your radios and your newspapers at every hour of the day, you are the most enlightened and best informed of people in all the world at this moment. You are subjected to no censorship of news. And i want to add that the government has no information which it withholds, or which it has any thought of withholding from you. [end of video clip] susan what is your reaction to that big statement, not withholding anything from you . Mr. Holzer it was generally true up to that point. He answered questions. They were off the record, but he would remind them to put things back on the record, or issue a news relief with a statement of the day to conform with the news he had made. The fireside chats were amazing. He assumed a confirmation of power. A new deal activist who traveled the country to officially measure the impact of recovery programs, all took note of the fact that americans throughout the rural area of the country thought of roosevelt as a friend who entered their parlors every so often, and whose voice was perfectly textured to the radio microphone. He did not shout, he did not speechifying, he talked. The way that geniuses of this new medium converse. They considered him a family friend. They laughed with him, they cried with him during the awful news of world war ii, they prayed with him when he wrote a prayer for the dday invasion, and recited it. His voice was everywhere. Whats remarkable is he did 998 press conferences that he only did 28 fireside chats and people could swear he was always on the radio. Always a part of their lives. Part of it was because he did speeches on the radio. But there is a great story i think my favorite story in the book is a recollection by the person working for the government in a project, and would later go on to win the nobel prize in literature. He remembered being on a big avenue in chicago as a young man and there was a terrible traffic jam during a fireside chat. He cannot stand the heat of the summer with the windows down, so he decided he would get out and walk the length. , everyry place he went car window was rolled down and every radio was tuned to president roosevelt. So as he was walking a mile along this promenade, he kept roosevelt with him the whole time and the voice never stopped dominating the space that he was traversing. If fdr used radio to his advantage, john kennedy write about television, he all but weaponize the medium that help elect him. Mr. Holzer he did. The big experiments that propelled him into using or theion that way Nixon Kennedy president ial debates. Which, from the moment they began, gave an advantage to kennedy. Not just because of what he said, but the way he said it and the way he looked. He had great makeup. Nixon was initiated in a d. Ated dash emaciate those who watched on television believed kennedy had won by a large margin. Once he became president he used the same team of makeup artists and set designers who collaborated on the background of the first triumphant political debate to design a place for him to hold press conferences. Eisenhower had introduced the hee press conferences, but was clearly annoyed by doing it. He did it in the Old Executive Office building, which was he stood at a desk and fought with reporters. It was not successful, even though he had a brilliant press secretary. The kennedy set was the new state department auditorium, which had great theater style seating, professional lighting, they installed a blue background, they built a famous podium with a president ial field, they had a place in the back for cameras, and they had 400 people for those press conferences. They needed the space to accommodate them and they simply darkened the lights on the outer reaches were people were not seen. Thatther innovations were he was introduced ladies and gentlemen, the president of the united states. Happened before. With fdr the doors flew open and the reporters flew in. Brilliant. I listened to all of his press conferences again and watched him, cant courtesy of the Kennedy Library archives. They were as masterful as i remember them from my afterschool viewing in junior high school. He was informative, he took , success has a thousand followers and failure is an orphan. He said after the bay of pigs when they failed in cuba. He was funny. He was witty. Again, by this time meg was an elderly reporter and she wore flowerpot hats to distinguish her. And when things were getting a little tedious, you a call on her and she would inevitably ask a question that was almost as funny as the answer. She had a way of doing her questions that got people giggling. Maybe it was a little patronizing, but the giggles were there. And he would giggle when he answered. Inse became so popular cultural phenomenon, that they album. D a record if anybody remembers what a record album is. A comedian did an uncanny impression of president kennedy, or as jfk said, of teddy kennedy. It became a big bestseller. They were just the optical events. The press did not like the idea of theatricality of it. But one reporter said it was like getting president kennedy to do the equivalent of in carnegie hall. They realized they were getting called on and getting airtime and they were getting famous themselves. So they signed on. They like it. Susan we are going to play a brief clip so people can get a sense of it. Timent have too much more to talk about kennedy, but lets listen to how he sounded. [video clip] platform onratic which you ran for election promises to work for equal rights for women, including wipeout job opportunity discriminations. You have made efforts on behalf of others, what have you done for the women according to the promises of the platform . President kennedy im sure we have not done enough. [laughter] president kennedy i must say im strong believer in equal pay for equal work. I think we ought to do better than we are doing. Im glad that you reminded me of it. [laughter] susan i will just [end of video clip] susan i will just let that stand. One aspect of the relationship between kennedy and the press is that they were willing to cover up his medical issues. On medications to deal with some of those medical issues. And importantly, his philandering. Why were they willing to do that . It was ther. Holzer last gasp of the old network. Kennedy had been a journalist after world war ii. Of sorts. Riter we can debate whether he wrote the book on which won the Pulitzer Prize or if you just supervised the production. He was a charmer and he has lifelong friends in journalism. Ben bradlee and others, he played golf with supporters and gave them scoops. He was very clever about keeping his friends in his orbit. Giving them stories, giving them exclusives, giving them tips. So they were willing to overlook those things at the time. The prevailing idea that the president s private life is offlimits if it does not interfere with his public life was still prevalent. And years later, the man who had turned the other way defended theypractice because insisted it did not interfere with his conduct of the government. And in the closed to his chapter you recognize the fact that television also canonized john f. Kennedy in his death. What were you thinking about as he wrote that . Mr. Holzer i was thinking about my longtime studies of the lincoln assassination, and how the images of his funeral, assassination and death all caps drive desk contrived into a the sameink that could be said about kennedys funeral. It was an elaborate affair in which his body was taken to where Abraham Lincoln was buried. On live tv this little boy saluting his coffin. Jackie kennedy and his brothers walking slowly across ellington bridge. No one who saw that will ever forget it. It is seared into the national memory, and may people forget forget theople successes and failures of the administration and fall in love a new and permanently with john kennedy. Susan the chapter in your book on Lyndon Johnson is important because of the vietnam war, that we dont have enough time to talk about it. I hope it will interest people in reading it. Nixon. On to richard but start with a piece of video and then we will talk about it. This is from 1962. [video clip] you had an opportunity to attack me and i think i have given as good as i have taken. Youll now write it, you will interpret it. But as i leave you, i want you to know, just think of how much you are going to be missed. You dont have nixon to kick around anymore. Gentlemen, this is my last press conference. I hope that what i have said today will at least make television, radio, the press recognize that they have a right to give thebility shaft, but also recognize if they are giving the shaft, put one lone reporter on the campaign who will report what the candidate says. [end of video clip] [indiscernible] what was the source susan what was the source throughout the campaign . Mr. Holzer he always believed he got the shaft, as he so charmingly put it. Deserved lynas asian zation for intensive hits. A taxon politicalization and he never got it because the press did not like his tactics and his anger. That moment into when he was conceding the 1960 to come back bid for governor of california. That, although he did say it was his last press conference, he famously did have many, many press conferences after that. And most of them were brittle and tense affairs because he did not like press scrutiny. By the way, if there was really a shaft involved in coverage of Richard Nixon, he would end up giving journalists the shaft when he became president and do toe than any president change the relationship and accepted area of coverage of a president of the united states. Susan how so . Mr. Holzer i think the totive thing was definitive things was sending Vice President spiro agnew to rail against the negativity with his illiterate if fuming of Television Critics and talking heads and talking stations. That really fueled the press. They do not like it, they do not like agnew, they reveled in his subsequent downfall and they blamed nixon. The second thing, and i wont even deal with watergate yet, the second thing was the white house enemies list. Nixon kept a list, and absurdly long list of people who he believed should be everything from taken off socialists to investigated, and it included many, many new reporters of consequence. Those familiar to the television world. There is a great story about mary mike luery. Somebody came up to her and said , mary, you made the enemy list. It said you write an antinixon column every day. She said, thats absolutely not true. She said, i only write three days a week. So reporters took it as a badge of honor, but they never trusted Richard Nixon again. , nixon tryingwed to prevent publication of the pentagon papers, losing in the Supreme Court, affirming the freedom of the press, really quite consequentially, and of course the watergate coverup in which he said very few true things to the press and the final year and a half of this presidency. Susan by the time watergate broke, was the relationship with the press corps at large just so fractured that there was no reservoir of goodwill towards him . Mr. Holzer i would absolutely agree with that. There was no sympathy for Richard Nixon. He was too dark a figure, he was to calculating a figure, he was too aggressive and secretive. Watergate was the latest and greatest manifestation of the general hostility against societal norms. Press smells blood, they never relented on watergate , justly so because he tried to norms over the election defensively,sily, and the coverup was worse than the crime. Has itsnixon always good to have a press secretary. I am a former Political Press secretary and its a hard job. You have to tell the truth to the press, keep the press informed, keep your loyalty to the candidate who will be the elected official, and stay informed by the candidate. , you have to leak very, very carefully. President nixon had ron zigler as a press secretary who was not trusted by the press. And not even liked by the president. His spin doctors, his operatives, his communication was crafting the dark strategy of his attack on the media. He was really the first president to make media attacks an integral part of his platform in his daily method of operation. And the press were never going to be interested in finding his corner, much less being in his corner after that. Is the storyook not just of the president s, but also of the changing press corps and changing technology that enabled them to do their work. It was the outcome of the Nixon Administration on the press corps that cover the president . Mr. Holzer the good outcome for them is, the New York Daily News had helped fund raise for franklin roosevelt, saying that he needed it for physical therapy. Which is close to saying that he needed to exercise his legs. Roosevelt did not like the idea. He invited them. Richard nixon covered up the pool. I use the word cover up, because thats what it was and it seemed to be his mo, covering up. Gave the presshe a theater style setting for daily briefings. Theit really changed operations of the White House Press corps. Moving out of closer proximity to the oval office. But also giving them a state of the art and Television Broadcasting to allow more to be allowed in the daily coverage of the white house. It also created a Briefing Room. Which we know too well today. Think, when we see those briefings that they are standing over the old swimming poor that roosevelt used to swim in for rehabilitation. Lyndon johnson used to take. Eporters in for nude swimming look magazine reporters and others. Andn ended swimming replaced it. Susan i know that you spoke to president bill clinton from your notes and newt gingrich, who they famously squared after in the clinton presidency. I will ask one question to capture the flavor of the clinton years. Hillary clinton famously complained regularly over vast right wing conspiracy against the president and herself. Hethe book you ask, was justifiably agreed or it rationally self pitying . Did you come to a conclusion . Mr. Holzer my own conclusion is that he was unjustly covered. The residue of the aggressive coverage of nixon, the ability of the press to remove a president , the ability of two journalists to become full heroes folk book, as i say in the what journalist does not want to be played by Robert Redford . I think he was a bit selfpity, but he was enormously agreed. The last time i visited little rock i have a little voice segment in the clinton library, in the video say, it really was a vast rightwing conspiracy. Clinton suffered the arrows of a radioggressive rightwing culture. Rush limbaugh and others who said while, personal things about him and his family. And also just a culture of investigating things that shouldnt that should not have been investigated. I hope i make that point in the book about the tragedy of vince foster, the folly of whitewater and travel gate. I think they were all do nmtchens degressions and and in enormous disservice to the americans. George w. Bush, to talk about him i am going to show a clip from his last press conference in 2009 where he talks about his relationship with the press. Then we will add more context of the story. [video clip] bush i see a lot of faces that travel with me around the world. Places like afghanistan, iraq and africa. Faces. Ome new which goes to show there is some turnover in this business. Through it all i have respected. Ou i sometimes did not like the stories that you wrote or reported on. Sometimes you miss underestimated me. I haveays a relationship felt has been professional. And i appreciate it. I do appreciate working with you. My friends would say, what is it like to deal with the press corps . People who are trying to do the best they can. [end of video clip] susan there is the present reflecting on his eight years in office. You wrote about it, what was it like going through it for the president . Think mr. Holzer i there was an ingenious structure in the communication operations of the bush white house. Very much modeled after the reagan system, which is kind of withd cop bad cop set up the communications aides were a great deal more negative and aggressive than the president. Pt which the president was ke relentlessly on message for photo ops, for chats, and even for press conferences. And president bush was a very friendly man and a charming man. I think he made some bad Public Relations mistakes. The flight over Hurricane Katrina where he did not land, but you sort of hovered just sends a terrible signal to americans that he was out of it. At this point, Television Coverage was aggressively liberal or conservative and they ot ya moment gp and any opportunity. The dramatic landing at the uss lincoln with a Mission Accomplished sign in the background years before the mission was accomplished. They think that was also a mistake. Cuteof them thought it was and liked it, others thought it was a southern control mechanism. So i think he did respect the professionalism of the press. I liked his little miss underestimated joke, because he props,te famous for now which the press but to report. Susan our conversation is how president s become restrictive during times of war. After 9 11 and when he began the afghanistan and iraq wars, what was his stance towards the media is trying to cover the stories . Mr. Holzer it was unlike franklin roosevelt. Think about fdr and his propaganda during world war ii organizing the great of the day. Getting them to go and form the record america had the in battles. War correspondents were at the front reporting back on the blood, the gore and the agony and injuries. It was all covered from the beginning. It was reported home. Lyndon johnson, for all of his in famed demand to control every message did allow the press to cover vietnam. Cronkiteurse walter raised questions about the war and he says, i have lost Middle America and it was the beginning of the downfall. The Bush Administration did not allow embedded cameras into the wars against terrorism. Were able to see coffin among coffin flag draped being brought back, almost on an assembly line. There were only occasionally limbs and unloaded from aircraft because they did not want like that to accept the American People or the electorate. Rather they showed to play bombing, which was like watching a video game. So i think that was a major change and i think that is coverage of war. Dont let them in. Susan what about the administration pushed through to leaks. The bushr administration and the rate in dutch Reagan Administration were very aggressive on cracking down on leaks using lie detectors and trying to find the source of leaks. By this time there is a patriot the use ofr bids information that might give comfort to terrorists and terrorist organizations. There was a new crackdown and new kind of informal censorship that prevailed through the obama years. Speaking of president obama, i would like to do the same thing with him, which is listen to him talking about his approach to information and then talk with you about his record. This is from 2010 and its a youtube interview. [video clip] one of the top questions was worn hunter saying, i expect the country to trust you when you have broken promises on the campaign trail. Most recently having a Transparent Health debate . Obama first of all, i would say we have been certified by independent groups as the most transparent white house in history. Its important to understand. We are the First White House and the founding of the republic to list every visitor that comes into the white house online so you can look it up. People know more about the inner workings of this white house, we havengs we have excluded lobbyists from boards and commissions, but we report on any lobbyist to meet with anybody who is part of our administration. We have followed through on a lot of the commitments that we have made. So war and is mistaken in terms of how he characterized it. [end of video clip] susan there is the president talking about it. But you write he finds a place among john adams, Abraham Wilson as onedrow of the president s in blocking press scrutiny. Mr. Holzer he does make a valid point about listing appointments to his credit. But he also has the most the detailed information about the discussions or those records. He limited his interactions with the press and he was the theident who is there at creation of the really phenomenon of the internet explosion of the web. He created a white house website and the information that was often put out to the press and the public was on the official white house website. I have instances of reportings reporters asking to cover it and they were directed to the website, which is an affront to the working journalist. From the obama administration, there was very aggressive investigations of journalists. And the two bestknown ones, who are the most consequence owens have similar names names. Ential ones have james rosen and james rising. One from fox and one is a print journalist. Both of them were wiretapped in the case of the fox news reporter. Family phones were wiretapped all to find the sources of the material. Whether you agree or not that america was in the same kind of peril for its very survival as it was during the civil war, i think you have to see that barack obama was a president who could crackdown on press accessibility and coverage. And if you look at the rankings that resource organizations did at the end of his presidency, i think they come down on the side that he was not transparent, except in the sense that he argues he was. As with bill clinton, you describe how the obamas went around the press and went to Communications Media to tell the real story. Would you talk about that . Mr. Holzer barack obama was the first twitter president. Im sure he still has more twitter followers than anyone in the world, except for one or two into trainers. Enormous numbers. Tens and tens and millions of followers. Website, thehouse twitter account, instagram, all of the things that the obama team originated. They have the first office of Digital Media of any white house , and they were masters of the craft. Of course, they were invented by a president who was in enormously gifted, Natural Community both an art or in public places, and as a oneonone or one onscreen communicator. Talent andtion of technology was enormous. He is really the first internet president and took full advantage of in the best of ways, the most moderate communications, technology in his disposal. Susan the press at this time was no longer about press. Media spans all sorts of types of communications from talk facebook ands to social media. How did all that change the relationship between the consuming public and the president . Mr. Holzer i think it is rendered some of the press more and less prepared to be aggressive with president ial questioning. I sort of bemoaned the level of questioning at president ial press conferences these days. I think there are got ya questions, and the followups have no relations to the original questions. But they are not probing, they veryot deep, they are modern media moments. Amongk the competition media is probably more important , to White House Correspondents, than they healthy antipathy between the president and the press. Theyre fighting each other, they are fighting their platforms as much as they are doing just battle with the president , and giving the president an opportunity to really explicate on his policies. Susan the president is a constant presence in our lives, even if we dont wish him to be. Because of all of the various kinds of communications. What has that done for the president s ability to govern, versus earlier president s who can control when and how often they were seen . Mr. Holzer i think President Trump controls how often his messages get out. Its basically many, many times a day. Heres another criticism of the press, if i may. When President Trump tweets early in the morning, as he does almost daily, the new site immediately bends to his latest issue, idea, rant, complaint, attack, and half of the days news cycle is devoted to rehashing his tweet and analyzing it in the case of talking heads talking about it in some networks. This is nothing short of genius. Obama may have been the first twitter president , but trump is a president of such mastery of twitter that he ranks, i think, with fdr in radio and jfk and television as the three most technologically savvy president s. The news cycle, i wont say to his will, but to his whim. Susan we have a clip of him of of first solo conference february 17, 2017. [video clip] President Trump i am having a good time. Remember i gave you a News Conference every time i made a speech, which was like every day. I won with News Conference and probably speeches. I did not win by people listening to you people. But i am having a good time. , donald they will say trump rants and raves. I am just telling you. The public does not believe you people anymore. Maybe i have something to do with that, i dont know, but they dont believe you. If you were straight and really told it like it is, as Howard Cosell used to say, of course he had some questions also, but if you were straight i would be your biggest booster and your biggest fan in the world. Including bad stories about me. [end of video clip] susan criticism of the press that has continued in the white house. What do you hear in what he is saying to them . Mr. Holzer it is very hard to his sentences are so incoherent sometimes, the diversion is odd, its hard to really take anything from it and make any sense of it. I think one of the things he is saying that is sad is, if only you liked me, i would like you. Says, what are you like me and i would be nicer to you. Very firstrump, his press activity as president was going to the cia and attacking the press for saying that he criticized the cia, which he had done during the campaign. It was that moment where sean spicer had been instructed not to talk about policy initiatives, but to go off on this thing that lasted a couple of weeks, insisting the inaugural crowd was bigger than barack obamas. I will not play psychiatrist and try to understand what that was saysbout, but spicer later he did not know why trump fixated on it. He was ordered to do it. And then when he did not do it successfully enough he was replaced by a person with no press experience, anthony scaramucci, and the rest is history. Of thesuccess and relationships with the communications director. Kellyanne conway attacking the press while her husband attacks trump. Its bizarre. It has never been like this. , i do say inhile the book that Donald Trumps bark is worse than his bite. But clearly john adams did more to injure freedom of the press. That Abraham Lincoln did more fdr. Ilson did more and trump has sort of crushed down credibilityd its and the professionalism that george w. Bush acknowledged. He may do longlasting harm from which we may never recover, in terms of our fate, our dependence on and our need for the press to ask the tough questions. Susan one of the stories that you tell about george w. Bush and barack obama is how they went into every press conference having rehearsed, to stay on message, and going out there fully prepared. President trump enjoys the spontaneity. How did the two different techniques impact the publics view of the president . Mr. Holzer we wont really know the publics view of president , december, november or whenever we successfully count votes for the 2020 alexion. Election. According to the polls his spontaneity leads donald trump into polls that are hurting him. Whether he is talking about saying nasty things about women, who he says are nasty, or advocating bleach as an internal medicine. He tends to get himself into trouble by not being prepared. But he does not read briefing books, much less rehearsed for briefings. Example, atan, for his most thought moment, the rewrote hisscandal, briefing book in longhand because that is how he would learn scripts in hollywood. That is the way he would commit his lines to memory. Really worked on the lines that he wanted to convey. There is nothing wrong with having a message to communicate to the American People. I just think the press enjoys scraping away the scabs that are barely covering the wounds that trump thinks he has endured. So the kind of circuses we see now are probably helping neither the press nor the president. Susan we spent two hours with you, you have spent years researching the topics of the president s versus the press. What are the most important things you would like leaders to take away from what you have learned and the stories youve conveyed . Issueszer schematic that the most successful or influential president s, like them or just like them, are the ones that went around the press and crafted new technologies to andumvent medias coverage speak directly to the American People. The second thing is that, the media landscape is everchanging, its not frozen , itime that it has evolved was more partisan and has become more partisan than it used to be. There was a great middle period when disenfranchised disinterested coverage was relied on. Whether we can get back to that or the news that was put to print. As donald trump might say, we will have to see. I think the major message that i that, this, ats its best, can be a very helpful adversarial relationship. It does not have to descend into sexist insults, racially insensitive insults. It does not have to include threats or mockery of disabled people. And it does not have to include wholesale, personal attacks on either the president or the press. It is an adversarial relationship, but it is a healthy one at its best. We always come back from the this. F after the civil war the Supreme Court said president s could not ever have the military close down the press the way the press is functioning. Continued the committee on Public Information the day after world war i ended. Fdr relaxed his propaganda after world war ii ended. I think there are extraordinary thatts that we need sometimes upset us and the president , but there is a tradition of their going at it, these two great pillars of society, the press and the american presidency. That benefits us for the adversarial nature of the relationship. And that has to come back from the extreme in order for the body of politics that we serve and for government to fly. A lincolnold holzer scholar and someone who has contributed many hours to cspan over the years, thank you for two hours on your newest book, what number was it for you . Mr. Holzer 6465. Susan book number 64 called the president s vs press. Thank you for your time. Mr. Holzer thank you so much for having me. All q a programs are available on our website or as a podcast that he span. Org. [captions Copyright National cable satellite corp. 2020] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. Visit ncicap. Org] sunday, october 4 at noon eastern on indepth. Our live twohour conversation with a Harvard University professor, whose most recent book is other titles include the secret history of wonder woman, a history of the united states, and the book of ages. Join in the conversation with your phone calls, facebook conversations, text and tweets. Watch sunday, october 4 at noon eastern on book tv. Journal. s washington every day we take your calls live on the air on the news of the day. And we discuss policy issues that impact you. 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This is about 40 minutes. We have now come to Prime Ministers questions. Just let people settle down. Congratulations. We now come to Prime Ministers questions. James daily