And also served as National Security adviser to president george w. Bush. David admiral, great to see you again. We are two days after veterans day and that was the occasion for this event. There are plenty of public issues right now that i want to ask you about, but i want to defer that for a moment and talk to you about service itself. And i want to start by talking about how you came by service, because you came by it naturally. You grew up in a family of service. Tell me about your dad, who was quite an interesting person. Adm. Mcraven first, thank you for the invitation to join you here today. This is terrific. I certainly enjoy spending time with you and the students of the iop. You are right, i kind of came by it naturally. My father was a world war ii fighter pilot. Flew spitfires, actually, which was a british airplane, because, at the time, when we entered the war, americans did not have planes to take on the german messersmith, so the british loaned us spitfires. But my grandfather also served in world war i and in world war ii. He was an army surgeon. My dad, later in life, as i was getting ready to join the service, he said, i remember what got me in the service. It was when i was a young boy, i saw the soldiers heading off to france in world war i board the trains in his small town. He said, there was such a sense of pride, there was such a sense of duty and patriotism that was really infectious. That is in addition to, obviously, watching his father, that really spurred him to join the military. And then i grew up as an air force brat and loved my time in the military families and just seeing the remarkable dedication of not only the military members but their families. David how does an air force brat end up in the navy seals . [laughter] adm. Mcraven well, good question. So i had thought about flying. And my dad, having been a fighter pilot, was kind of nudging me in that direction. But, interestingly enough, i think it was close to my senior year in high school, my sister was dating an Army Green Beret. And of course, this was after the movie with john wayne had come out, the green berets. And i had this fascination with green berets. This young army captain came to pick her up for a date, and she was, as usual, kind of late, so i was entertaining the young captain, and he said, what are you getting ready to do . I said, well, i think i am going to join the navy. Ive got a scholarship, an rotc scholarship. He said, well then, you better become a navy seal. This was back in 1973. I had never heard of the navy seals. Frankly, nobody had heard of navy seals back at that point in time. But here, you had an Army Green Beret telling me to be a navy seal. And that really is what headed me in that trajectory. David and you spent 37 years in the seals. You can explain the bullfrog title. And special operations became more and more significant over time. You literally wrote the book on it. Why has special operations become such an important part of defense . Adm. Mcraven well, so, when you look back over the history, the modernday history of special operations, of course we had a little bit of a heyday during world war ii. You saw these remarkable operations done by all the services, including u. S. Forces, under both the oss, which was the predecessor to the cia, and then, of course, we had navy frogmen in world war ii and we had army special operations. And then after world war ii, it kind of waned a little bit, picked up a little bit in korea, but then in vietnam, the navy seals came about, and they were born from the underwater demolition teams. And they really earned this remarkable reputation fighting the insurgency in vietnam. But then again, after vietnam and this tends to happen after major wars the reliance or the expectation that we will need special operations again kind of declines, which it did. And then, when we had the disaster at desert one, the country did kind of a reassessment of, gee, do we need special operations . And the answer was of course we need them. Now, we need to professionalize them. Congress was the one that put in place the u. S. Special operations command, and then we really began to institutionalize or professionalize special operations. By the time 9 11 came along, frankly, we were, bar none, the finest special Operations Force in the world. The question becomes, why do you need them . Im always quick to point out to folks, look, special operations have a unique niche. They are not going to be able to stop the North Koreans from coming south. They are not going to be able to keep the straits of hormuz open. Theyre not going to be able to stop the chinese from invading taiwan. But the things we do we do exceedingly well. We are very surgical. We can get into a country, work with the allies in a way that sometimes larger battalions cant. And of course, you saw from 9 11, the hunt for terrorists, the insurgent fight in iraq and afghanistan, really, those were right in our wheelhouse. So the force has grown tremendously over the last 20 years and, i think, have done a remarkable job. David let me ask you about the military generally. We tend to draw from a rather small pool of americans right now. There is no draft. When your dad enlisted, all of america was in that war, mostly men who were fighting, and everyone else who was pitching in some other way. A student wrote to me, as i was preparing for this, and asked me to ask you about why isnt there more diversity in the upper echelons of the military, and does that have to do with disparities in the American Education system . That is one question. And another is, just generally, what does it mean for the country that such a small pool of people carry such a large burden . Adm. Mcraven there is a lot to unpack in that question, so let me kind of hit the diversity issue first. I think we are continuing to make progress in terms of diversity in the United States military. But, as you know, we were a segregated military until 1947, 1948, when truman initiated the integration. And then you began to see the rise of africanamericans in terms of being in more prominent positions, but you still had the challenges of the Civil Rights Era and jim crow. And when i came in, in 1977, there was a lot of racial tension in the military. And early on and i think it was about 1962 the actual term affirmativeaction came about, but i did not really see it until the 1980s sometimes. And you would sit on promotion boards. And the military understood we needed to increase our diversity. So we really had an aggressive affirmative action program. So when an officers record would come up, it would say minority or female. And we had a quota. At first, there was a bit of a reluctance to approach it this way. But what we found was it was not that we did not have great talent in the diverse pool, but we were not giving them the opportunity. So once we were able to kind of prime the pump by putting great people, talented people in positions of responsibility, then, after a while, we realized we no longer needed to single out the minorities, because we had built a deep bench, they were beginning to rise in prominence. We saw the talent in the minorities and female population. And in my career, of course, i have been blessed to work for colin powell and lloyd austin , and i worked for michelle howard, the first black female fourstar in the navy. So you are beginning to see a recognition, and i think you have seen it for a while, but it is improving. But we always have to make greater strides. We have to continue to make sure we are promoting the right people. You see c. Q. Brown running the air force now. When i am asked this question about c. Q. Brown, the first africanamerican chief of staff of the air force, i tell people very quickly, if you think he was chosen because he was africanamerican, you dont know c. Q. Brown. He was chosen because he was the best person for the job. He happens to be africanamerican, and he is going to be a great role model for the kids in both the air force, army, navy, and marine corps. But he was chosen because he is the best person for the job, and we just need to continue that march forward. David but you do have this disparate at the rankandfile level, youve got large minority representation. And, you know, it relates to a larger point, which is, i always felt like service, during world war ii, created a kind of commonality among americans of different backgrounds. And i am sure you found that you served with people of different backgrounds, and it broadened you. This aspect of service and the value of service, how do we recapture that . How do we because we live in such a polarized time between rural and urban and different communities in our country. How do we, through service, attack that . Adm. Mcraven well, to your point, david, you see the young men and women coming into the service, and, you know, you may get a white kid from the south and a black kid from chicago, and once they find themselves in the same squad, in the same company, in the same platoon, all of a sudden, those differences begin to kind of fall away, and they realize they have a lot more in common than they do apart, and that there differences their differences dont matter when they are focused on a particular mission or an objective. Thats the great thing about the service. That has always been the great thing about the service. You are right, what we tend to find today is the demographics of the Service Continue to be more in the south than the north. They seem to be more middleclass than they are upperclass. But i think that this serves us well, when you find these young kids that come in, they serve their time of the military, and a lot of them, of course, get out and become great citizens of the United States. And you see many of them today serving in congress. So weve got to continue to encourage men and women to join the service. I would like to see a National Service program whereby it is not just about the service in the military, but how do we create Something Like a National Service academy, where men and women, much like the Naval Academy or west point or the air force academy, they are selected by their congressmen, they come to a Service Academy for four years, and then they join a National Service corps and they have a career in this. The difference is the focus is domestically. So, we are going to teach people to be civil engineers, we are going to teach them to be teachers, we are going to teach them skills that are going to help the country, and then we assign them places like in flint, michigan, can they improve the Water Quality . I think National Service is important, but until that happens, we need to encourage young men and women to join. I think that will absolutely help the polarization you see today. At least, that is my hope. David another question that came my way, which i thought was really good, was what is the one thing that admiral mcraven wishes his younger self would have known before going into this field . Adm. Mcraven yeah, you know, i think the answer is, everything is going to be ok. [laughter] i know that sounds simple, but when you are a young ensign and you are trying to do the best job you can, or when you are a young enlisted man or woman and you are trying to do the best job you can, and challenges get in your way, all of a sudden, they become the most important thing in your life and you worry about them constantly, when, in fact, they may not be all that critical. And you just do the best job you can. When i look back on 37 years and i think about the times i sweated things, i think thats good. You know, you have to take your obligations seriously. But i wish i would have been a little bit more relaxed and realized that you work hard, you work through things, your friends and your colleagues will help you through the tough times, and you are going to be all right. David when you think back on those 37 years, i am sure you were inspired by people who served under you, people who led you. But is there one person who you think back on and say, this person embodied what i think is best about service . Adm. Mcraven i will say, i have an awful lot of them, as you said. The one thing that people that are in leadership positions, at least and i know ryan would say the same thing what inspires you every day are the men and women that work for you. The fact of the matter is, and particularly during, after 9 11, the young men and women that i saw who raised their hand after 9 11 and said, im going to volunteer to go to war. They all knew what they were signing up for. Those of us that came in before 9 11, it was just a continuation. But that generation that raised their hand and the thing i enjoyed the most was kind of spending time with these young men and women. You hear their story. Some of them are married with a couple of kids at home, they are e5s making a small salary, and you see their sacrifice, you see their sense of commitment, and im telling you, that inspires the leaders to do the right thing. Now, i have been fortunate in my career. I have worked for just remarkable men and women. We talked about colin powell, i worked with condi rice. I have worked for both 43, george w. H bush, for barack obama. But i think back on the senior enlisted i had a chance to spend time with. My command sergeant, major Crystal Harris chris ferris, a great Army Green Beret and special operations noncommissioned officer, one of the smartest guys i ever spent time with. He was my righthand man. I did not make any difficult decisions without conferring with my sergeant major. When i was in the navy, i had a great master chief named Steve Chamberlain along the same mold, incredibly disciplined, remarkable enlisted men. So there is inspiration everywhere, and you dont have to look very hard to find it. David what was the hardest day you had in your 37 years . Adm. Mcraven i dont know if i can single out a day, because you have a lot of tough days. Particularly in combat. Unfortunately, after 9 11, in the course of my six years in and out of iraq and afghanistan, i lost a lot of great men and women. That is always hard. It is hard because you know they were very young, they were very committed to what they were doing. You grieve for their families, and, frankly, it is a burden that i am not sure you ever completely get over, nor should you get over it. There were a lot of hard days. And i dont know that they ever get easier. As i said, they probably shouldnt. David what about the proudest day . What is the day that you look back at and say, wow, that was it, that was really extraordinary to be a part of . Adm. Mcraven a lot of people would probably say that i would jump to the bin laden raid, but that would not be my first thought. I was incredibly proud of the men that went on the mission to get bin laden. They were risking their lives. It was a remarkable mission, and it certainly brought justice to bin laden. But when i think back on the number of missions, and we did thousands of missions from the time i was the Deputy Commander of jsoc and the commander of jsoc, thousands of them. And the ones that i was always most proud of was when we could rescue an american. And we did a lot of hostage rescues. The thing about it was we were not rescuing prominent people. We were rescuing contractors, we were rescuing journalists, we were rescuing, you know, people that we knew we had an obligation, as american soldiers, to rescue americans. And when you save someones life and you realize that you have impacted them, their children, their childrens children, because they are alive today because of what you and your men did, that is pretty damn rewarding. David you have also been called upon and you have called on others to take life. And there has to be some psychic cost of that. There has to be some impact of that. And you have been close in on a lot of action over the course of those 37 years. How do you process that . Adm. Mcraven yeah, first, you have to recognize your obligation as a commander. So, your obligation as a commander, first and foremost, is the protection of the men and women under your command. So we understand that, from the rules of engagement standpoint, from the law of armed conflict, you have the authority to protect yourself and you have the obligation to protect others. So, whenever we were doing a mission that required striking a target, killing the enemy, you really do have to go through your mind, and you have to say because youve got to live with it, and if you make the mistake, you will live with the civilians you inadvertently killed you say, am i doing this to protect american soldiers, sailors, airmen, marines, civilians . And if you can, in your own mind, make that argument, and if you know that your decision is moral, legal, and ethical, then you can do that. Now, i was not always right. And we made mistakes. And innocent men and women died. It is the horror of war. And, once again, you have to live with that burden. And let me tell you, there are times at night when those dark memories come up, and you say, what could i have done better . What mistakes did i make and how could i have corrected them . And then you have to press on. I mean, the one thing i used to tell young officers is, you are going to make bad decisions periodically, but you cant be afraid to make the next tough decision. Because if you are afraid to make the next tough decision, then you are not the leader the men and women need you to be. Because every leader is going to make mistakes. You know, learn from your mistakes, be prepared to make the next tough decision, because that could save more men and women. David you are at the nsa during you were at nsa during that critical period in washington, during that critical period at the beginning of the war in iraq and after 9 11. A lot has been written and a lot has been discussed about the impact of that decision, to go to iraq. You know, we still have troops there, we have troops in afghanistan. What has the impact been on the country of this prolonged struggle, for which there really isnt a parallel . I mean, vietnam went on for quite a while, but we are almost two decades in now. Adm. Mcraven yeah, great question. You know, when i was i think it was in 2010, maybe september of 2010, i was in baghdad, and the decision had been made to pull u. S. Forces out of iraq at the beginning, i think, of 2011. And i was down talking to a squadron of seals, and it was a seal senior chief petty officer who was a little upset. At oneint in time point in time, he said, hey admiral, wtf, we are going out on missions every night, risking our lives, and we are pulling out of here in four months. Why are we continuing to go on these missions . And the missions, at the time, were to try to stop this network of suicide bombers that was coming into baghdad, hit the markets and those sort of things. And it was a great question. And the only answer i could give the senior chief was, look, we came here, we have a responsibility. And let me tell you something you have no idea about how your missions can change the outcome of the war history. So if you stop a suicide bomber from blowing up a market in baghdad today, will there have been a young man or woman in that market who was going to find a cure for cancer, who was going to be the Prime Minister of iraq in 20 years, who was going to do something great . You just dont know, so you have to do your job. From the military standpoint, we have to do our job. Now, that is not to say you dont sit around and say, what if, why are we doing this . Thats not to say you cant, in your own mind, question the policy. You should. And the senior officer certainly have an obligation to raise policy issues with the secretary of defense. But more times than not, you have to be satisfied with doing your job. Now, let me take it a little bit broader. I was with president bush last year or so, year and a half ago, and somebody asked him the question about his legacy and, in particular, iraq. He said something that i thought was very thoughtful. He said, you know, they are still writing books about George Washington not making the implication he was George Washington but he said, people will assess my legacy for millennia to come. So he said it is a little bit hard, at this point in time, not very far removed from iraq, to say it was the right decision or the wrong decision. And i had to think about that. I always, in my mind, questioned whether it was the right decision, but i realized, as a leader, i had to get out and lead my troops to do americas business. But having said that, i realized that history will tell whether or not taking down saddam hussein, trying to institute some form of democracy in iraq, was worth the blood and the treasure that we and the iraqis gave. And i think the jury may still be out on that. David you mentioned him and the other president s you worked for. Talk to me about the leadership lessons you learned from each of them. Adm. Mcraven yeah, you know, it is interesting, and you well know, david, having been in there many times, but when you sit in the situation room and you have an opportunity to really observe, up close, how the president of the United States deals with his senior staff, what i guess i was surprised by was the similarities, actually, between george w. Bush and barack obama, in terms of how they dealt with their staff. And what i found with both bush and obama was they listened. They would listen to their staff, they were happy to have members of their staff disagree. And then they would take that input, go off, and make a decision. And i think that was very important. Even though, as you know, their personalities are much different. President obama much more subdued, although, as you know better than most, he has a great sense of humor and a great personality. Sometimes, it didnt come forward publicly. And, of course, president bush much more outgoing from a public standpoint. But i would offer, also, very thoughtful behind the scenes. So what both of these leaders understood was listen. Listen to the subject matter experts, take in the information, and then make the best decision, the best judgment you can. That is kind of the fundamentals of leadership, i think, in any role any leader would have. David i said i was going to ask you about some of the current events. You know, when i first approached you about coming and speaking, you were reluctant, because you did not want to get drawn you had criticized president trump. You didnt want to get drawn into that. It is unusual for military and retired military to be as outspoken as you have been. Was that a hard decision for you . And what kind of feedback did you get from your peers . [laughter] well, it actually was not a hard decision. I thought about it, but it was not a hard decision and i will walk you through the timeline. One of the things i tell folks is when i am criticized, as a Senior Leader having spoken out against the president , i always tell people, that is fair criticism. We have this unwritten rule that, as a retired senior officer, you are not supposed to speak badly about the president , and, in general, i think that is a good rule. But i also realized that, for myself, i had to wake up and be able to look myself in the mirror and say, am i doing what i think is right . And all of this started when i was the chancellor at the university of texas, and the president came out and said the press was the enemy of the american people. I said, you know, i have fought the enemy of the american people, and it is not the press. I have been raked over the coals by the press. I understand how challenging it can be. But at the end of the day, to me, the press, the first amendment, is maybe the single most important thing we have as part of our constitution. And for the president of the United States to attack the american press, as i said, was the greatest threat to democracy in my lifetime, and i stand by those words. That, of course, began a number of times when i felt it was appropriate to speak out. I tried not to do it, you know, just every time i was offended by something the president said. I wanted to make sure that, if i was going to use my voice, and if i was going to have to suffer the slings and arrows, that i wanted to make sure that i was, at least in my own mind, on solid ground. But ive also told folks, look, if you are in the military, if you are a uniformed military person, you cannot speak out against the commanderinchief. Not your place. And for those of us that are retired and speak out, the criticism is fair. Weve just got to be able to deal with criticism. David what do you make of what is going on first of all, this the impact of what has the impact of this president been on the military and on the morale of the military . He has involved the military in ways that are unusual, unique, really. We have an apolitical military, and now, we are in this period where he has lost this race. He has fired the leadership of the pentagon, he has put some very strong ideologues into those positions, including a former general who is islamophobic and called president obama a terrorist leader and so on. How does this filter down to people in uniform . Adm. Mcraven i certainly wouldnt want to speak for the men and women in uniform in terms of the broad swath of this, because i do think there is this mix of support for president trump. There are some folks out there who absolutely believe he is doing the right thing, hes investing more in military hardware. And theres a lot of truth to that. He has obviously continued the pursuit of isis in syria. So he has done some things that i know some of the rankandfile believe to be good and appropriate things. Conversely, i know a lot of, on the other side, that, to your point, they think he has dramatically affected morale by intervening, particularly on some highprofile cases where the military was not actually able to adjudicate the case. The issue going on right now about firing mark esper and joe kiernan and the Senior Leadership within the department there, of, the issue course, as you know, is about the transition. I was talking to somebody the other day, when i was commander of the joint special Operations Force in iraq, and i dont know the exact days, but i would have to brief president bush on the missions we were getting ready to do that were outside of iraq and afghanistan, and there were a lot of those. And i remember, one day, i am briefing from iraq to the situation room there in the white house, and it is president bush and his team. And then, several days later, i turn on the video teleconference and up pops a new president and a new team, with the exception of bob gates. Thats the way a transition is supposed to work. Again, the days that separated my brief to bush and obama, i dont know the exact timeframe, but it was not very far apart. The reason the Obama Administration was able to come in and get up to speed quickly is because president bush had given president obama and his team a great transition, a great turnover. You really have to have that if you are going to be focused on National Security. So i think the concern i am seeing from some of my colleagues now is by kind of beheading the Senior Leadership of the military and putting in folks that are, certainly in my opinion, not qualified to do the job at this point not necessarily all of them bad guys, but, certainly, i would say not fully qualified to do the job that is going to make it tough. If we are not allowing the president elect and his team to do the transition, it puts us at greater risk. David i agree. Lets go to some questions from students, and lets start with seth, a veteran scholar sergeant in the marine corps, class of 2024. Seth, are you here . Seth i am here, thank you. Good afternoon, sir. Like mr. Axelrod said, my name is seth. I am a student veteran on campus. I am currently in hyde park. When i was a marine, i had the commandants reading list to guide me to find the right books to be reading. I am curious what books you would suggest for Young Leaders like me to broaden our horizons on American History and leadership in general. Adm. Mcraven great question. Thanks. You know, the books that i will put them into a couple of categories. There is a fiction book called once an eagle, by anton meyer, kind of a classic book for most of the west pointers. It is a great novel about a leader who starts off as a young enlisted troop in world war i, goes to world war ii, and then something that is kind of similar to vietnam. But it is also this remarkable novel about leadership and the contrast between his style of leadership, which is exemplary, and then kind of a careerist, who is a good combat leader, but not good at taking care of the men and women under his command. So that, from a novel standpoint, is good. One of my favorite books, although, is all quiet on the western front. You know, small book. And the reason i like all quiet on the western front is it is about a german soldier on the western front during world war i. Why is that important . Because if you read that book and you put your name in for his name, you would have the exact same experiences. I mean, you would recognize everything this german soldier is going through. And why is that important . Because sometimes you have to recognize that the enemy you cannot always dehumanize the enemy. They are people, too, and you have to recognize they are motivated in ways that might be similar to how you are motivated. So i kind of think of those two books. But of course, you can see the library behind me. I would say it hundred of the 800 of so i would say the 1000 or so books behind me are on everything from military strategy to special operations. You cannot go wrong with on war and understanding the great strategists as well. David seth, thanks for your service and for your question. Let me say, dont forget make your bed and sea stories, two great books. Honestly, we did a wonderful podcast together, so i had to bone up for those, and i so enjoyed both of them. And i highly recommend it. A lot of leadership lessons in both those books. Lets see. We have robert, class of 2023. Robert, where are you . Robert good afternoon. My name is robert deans. I am currently a second year in the college and spending my quarter in hyde park. I am in air force rotc. Is there any advice you would give for people in rotc or people considering joining the military after college that want to make a career out of it . Adm. Mcraven you know, i also went through the rotc program. I went to the naval rotc at the university of texas. And my son went through the air force rotc at clemson. So the rotc program is phenomenal. Because, of course, you get the opportunity to get a good military education as well as a more liberal education at the school you are going to. The one thing i would offer you, when you get into rotc, is it is important, always, in any organization, to learn the basics. That is what rotc does for you. Little things like learn how to salute, learn how to wear your uniform, learn the ranks. You cant be a good leader unless you understand the basics of whatever organization you are going into first. So your rotc time will give you that opportunity. It will probably also give you the opportunity to travel a little bit. Take the time to talk to the enlisted men and women in the rotc unit. Take the time to talk to the officers. Learn about their careers. And take those four years, as you would at any college, to absorb as much about the organization as you can. That way, when you become a second lieutenant, you will be prepared to go out and do your job. David thank you, robert. Best of luck to you. Kevin, a graduate student at the Graham School biomedical informatics and an army veteran who served in iraq. Kevin, where are you . There you are. You are muted, kevin. Kevin thank you for taking the time, admiral. Really appreciate it. My question is, how can we all help repair americas reputation post 45 . Also, how do we communicate with people who refuse to believe or unable to understand the truth . Adm. Mcraven great question. I think internationally, on january 20 at 12 01, we will find that a lot of the problems we have had internationally will quickly become resolved. People from nato to the asean nations to africa they want american leadership. They are begging for american leadership. So as soon as President Biden comes in, he is not an isolationist. He is going to value the relationships we have with nato. He is going to value our relationships with our allies and partners, and they will recognize that on day one. That is not to say that we dont have some bridges that we need to rebuild a little bit, but i think, instead of having to rebuild a bridge in one direction, we will find people coming to the middle, because they want us to be part of their interNational Security. In terms of how do you deal with friends and family, which i have a lot of, who are not necessarily supportive of my political position, you have to listen. And you have to not be too righteous. It is easy, sometimes, to think, my goodness, why dont they understand . Why cant they see what i see . Well, i would say you might want to check your pride at the door a little bit. Check your sense of righteousness just a little bit and listen. That may not sway them, and it probably will not sway you, but i think they will be a lot more receptive if they think you are prepared to listen to them and be thoughtful about their positions. Then maybe you can begin to build bridges a little bit easier. But if you come in, and youve already got your armor on and you are ready to go for a fight, that is not going to help anybody, and i dont think you will get much traction with that. David thank you, kevin. Admiral, let me follow up on these questions. And you speak about what will happen the day that President Biden takes the oath of office, in terms of how the world views us and how we view the world. What about yourself . Would you consider playing a role in some form or fashion in the next administration . Adm. Mcraven david, ive always said i am not into politics, but, like you, i like policy. And if the opportunity to work in a policy environment and to provide policy guidance were available, absolutely. That is in my wheelhouse. Its something i enjoy doing. So, if offered, i would absolutely consider it. David what would be the most important advice that you would as he takessident office . Adm. Mcraven well, i dont know that the president needs my advice. David i know, but i am asking. I am curious. Adm. Mcraven the one thing i think is, back to the previous question, almost 73 Million People voted for donald trump. So the president , if hes going to pull the country together, i think hes going to have to take a hard look at what were some of their concerns and is there a way to kind of bridge that gap . Recognizing that he is going to be a president for all americans. And if youre going to be a president for all americans, you are going to have to do what i think joe biden has done exceedingly well over the years, which is, you know, extend his hand across the aisle, see where we can get some compromise, and then move forward together. Youre not always going to be able to compromise. There are going to be some folks who are entrenched. But that is something he does very well. We are going to need that. When you have almost 73 Million People, there is probably something in there that is of value that he must consider if hes going to be the president. David in terms of National Security, what do you see as the greatest threats we face . Weve seen the power, for very little investment, of cyber tactics and cyber attacks. And democracies are particularly vulnerable to that, but so is the infrastructure of countries. Where do you see the greatest threats in this era . Adm. Mcraven i think the greatest threat to National Security is k12 education. And the reason i say that is because if we are not growing the next generation of National Security leaders, if we are not teaching kids, starting in Elementary School and junior high and high school, if we are not teaching them, giving them a liberal, a classic liberal education, where they have to think critically, where they are exposed to different ideas and different cultures they also need to learn stem. But education, to me, is where we need to focus our attention if we are going to grow the next generation of National Security leaders. Now when it comes to immediate threats outside our boundaries, my focus would be on russia. I mean china is going to be a competitor, we recognize that. I dont really see us coming to blows with china. I think they are too smart for that, and, hopefully, we are too smart for that. Russia, to me, and putin you know, he likes to play the great game better than anyone out there. You look at what he did to crimea and his push in ukraine and syria. Of course, he has been very aggressive. He threatened us on the high seas. He has that dose in the air. A miscalculation with russia could lead to a shooting conflict. I dont know whether it would be a big war. But i am more concerned about russia than i am china or even north korea. While kim jongun is only concerned about the survival of his regime, i think you can understand that that is a given, and that makes him a player you can work with, because you understand what he is trying to achieve. He is a rational actor in a very irrational way. David andrew has a question for you. Andrew, step on up here. Andrew good afternoon, admiral. Thank you so much for your time. It is great to have you here. And it is great to hear your insight. I have a question regarding history and historical studies. I am part of the chicago blue class of 2022. To you, what is the most impactful or beneficial period of history to study as a professional leader . Adm. Mcraven wow. You know, ive had thousands of questions over the years. I dont know anyone has ever tossed that one my way. You know, if i had to think about history a lot of the books back here are ancient history. My sense of history is it really hasnt changed much when you think about the nature of warfare and you think about the nature of diplomacy. I will tell you i think it is important to read how did we deal with the cuban missile crisis and how did the allies come together in world war ii and what were the bad things we did in south america in the 1960s . Those are all important things to understand. But if you go back and read about, you know, about ancient rome, ancient greece, if you read machiavelli the fact of the matter is the dynamics between human beings have not changed much in thousands and thousands of years. So you have to understand that, i think, kind of going into it. And then once you have this foundation and this recognition that battle does not really change the weapons might change. We may get machine guns. We might go from calvary to motorized. But the nature of warfare doesnt change. And i would offer the nature of diplomacy does not change. What changes are the circumstances. So read a little bit of ancient history and then find those kind of modern, you know, big ticket items, like the cuban missile crisis, how did kennedy deal with that, the vietnam war, those sorts of things, and then pull the two together. The history in between is all kind of the same, more of the same. David thanks, andrew. Jay, step on up here. Jay good afternoon, sir. Thank you for speaking with us. I am a former submariner. I currently in washington, d. C. Am with the class of 2022. My question is, what advice can you give to veterans transitioning to civilian life after a career of service . Adm. Mcraven thanks, jay. What youre going to find is you have to learn the business first. When i transitioned from running socom to being chancellor of the university of texas system, i knew nothing about Higher Education and nothing about health care. The ut system was not just ut austin. It is 230,000 kids, 100,000 employees, eight academic institutions, and six Large Health Care institutions. I knew nothing about that. I had a fivemonth sabbatical between when i retired and when i took a job, and im telling you, i spent that five months talking to people, learning everything i could about the business. Back to the question that was posed early on about what is good in rotc, youve got to learn the basics. I needed to understand, what does a chair do . What does a dean do . What does a provost do . Whats the difference between a researcher . Whats the difference between an oncological surgeon . I wanted to understand the basics. Once you understand the basics, or least as much as you can, about the organization, then the leadership skills you had as a submariner are fungible. They are transferable. You will immediately find that once you understand how things work and you build a matrix, you build your own little ok, i see how this works, you will maneuver nicely. If you dont take the time upfront to work hard, to learn the business, then everything you learn in the military will go for naught, because you will be struggling to understand the basics. And then, finally, its just a matter of working hard and earning the respect of your colleagues, and you know how to do that. Jay thank you, sir. David thank you for your service and thanks for your question. And finally, jack is jack lined up . If not, i have his question. We dont see him. Jack, who is a west point graduate, a former army ranger, asks what are the National Security risks and potential benefits you see in the trend of commercialization of the space industry . Adm. Mcraven yeah, you know, i think the commercialization of the space industry is actually a good thing. Ive got a brotherinlaw who works at nasa. I watched the space industry over the years there he is. Are you up there . So, you know, i think what nasa has been surprised by and ive heard a number of nasa directors talk about this fact they really didnt think the commercialization was going to work. And, of course, now it has worked. Weve seen spacex rendezvous with the International Space station. I do think this kind of marriage of public and private, if you will, is going to serve the space industry well. And, you know, there are always going to be those folks who want to work on the federal government side, with nasa, but then there are always those who want to work on the commercial side and have a little more latitude and freedom to be inventive and those sorts of things. I think the partnership will serve america well. David jack, you also sent in a question that i felt was really great, and i want to quickly ask this one as well. You asked, what do you believe about leadership that everybody else thinks is crazy . Adm. Mcraven yeah, i am not sure i have learned anything new in leadership in terms of everything that you are going to read. I mean we know, as leaders, youve got to lead from the front, you have to take care of your troops, you want to share the hardships. Those sort of things are the most commonly known things about leadership. But the one thing i think really has stuck with me is i get back to hard work. Whenever i went into an organization, i found that, in order to earn the respect of the men and women that i worked with, i had to work hard. I had to show up early. I had to bust my hump all day long, and i had to go home late. I will give you one more story. When i was a navy captain, i was in a very serious parachute accident. And 9 11 happens, and i was asked to come to the white house. So i went to the white house. I did not really have time to rehab. About 18 months after my time in the white house, the seals down in Virginia Beach were having a commanders conference, and they invited me down. I am a senior navy captain. Morning, theat seals knew, we all got in a circle and did our pt, and we were going to go for a 10mile run. I was still kind of broken, so i go to do the pt, and i kind of got through the pushups, but it was hard for me to do a lot of other things. Then we do the run. As typical seals, it starts off as a race, and i am hanging tough for all of about 100 yards. And then the guys take off. And i am struggling, because my injury was to my pelvis, and it was hard to run. But as i am running it was a twomile loop around a course we were doing as i am running, this kid, after a while, passes me, laps me. He is a young officer, and as he is lapping me and i am struggling to run, he stops and says, sir, what are you doing . I am plodding through, i said, what do you mean . He said, sir, you dont have anything else to prove. Hereont need to be out doing this. You have nothing else to prove. I did not say anything, and the kid ran on. And he was absolutely wrong. You have to prove something every single day. If you wake up and think you dont have anything to prove, if you wake up and you think you dont have to work harder than everybody else, that you dont have to lead better than everybody else, that you dont have to earn the seal trident that you spent 37 years you are mistaken. If you are a leader, you wake up every single morning and realize you still have something to prove. When the day comes that you think you have got nothing left to prove, it is time for you to move on and do something else. David i bet that young man who lapped you probably did think you were crazy. [laughter] so, thats probably a great answer to the question. But let me say, admiral, having gotten to know you a little and knowing what the people i worked with thought about you, there is no race that you would not win at the end, because your character and commitment is really unparalleled. And your insights, not just into military issues, but into people, which is such an important part of leadership. So we are so grateful for your being here. I am grateful for all of your years of service and to know you and appreciate what youve done in the past and what you will do in the future for our country. So thank you very much. Adm. Mcraven my pleasure. Thanks very much. Great to join you all today. Thanks. David thank you. [captions Copyright National cable satellite corp. 2020] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. Visit ncicap. Org] on cspans washington journal this morning, new americas lee drutman discusses his proposal that would increase the federal governments role in the election process. And then chief American HealthCare Association dr. David gifford discusses covid19 impact on longterm care facilities. Be sure to watch cspans washington journal, live today at 7 00 eastern. And be sure to join the discussion with