Transcripts For CSPAN Former 20240704

Buckeye broadband supports cspan as a public servi along with these other television providers. Giving you a front row seat to democracy. Coming up next, former National Security advisor Robert Obrien talked about securing supply chains and managing economic challenges with china. He also comments on the Semiconductor Industry and the importance of selling goods to china versus investing. This conversation. Welcome to the Hudson Institute. I am the director of the hud states to do Channel Center here in washington, d. C. Today we have the privilege to host a talk on a very important topic by a supremely qualified speaker. This event will last for about an hour and will begin with remarks by our distinguished speaker followed by a conversation between me and our speaker and then open up to q and a with the audience so get your questions ready. Our speaker today has has an outstanding career and that deserves a much larger space to introduce but due to cut due to time constraints we have provided a bio here in the Live Audience on your seat. For our cspan audience and if you want to see the full advisory biography of our speaker, at hudson. Org. That is the website. I will highlight a few important aspects of our distinguished speakers career. Ambassador Robert Obrien is the cofounder and chairman of American Global strategies llc. He was the 27th United States National Security advisor from 20 through 2021. Ambassador obrien served on aspects of American Foreign policy and National Security. During his tenure to the president , ambassador obrien orchestrated the history historic Abram Abraham accords, achieved sniffing into his fit defense spending among our allies. He has received numerous awards during his illustrious career. In 2022 he was elected as the chairman of the board and has been cochairing with our own secretary mike pompeo on conservative realism and National Security. Ambassador obrien received a jd from uc berkeley which is my own alma mater and a ba in Political Science from ucla. I give you the honorable ambassador Robert Obrien. [applause] amb. Obrien thank you miles. I think that calls for goberts theres a lot of harvard and yale and stanford and ucla guys. Its great to be with you. Thank you for the kind introduction. Miles did tremendous work for us in the last administration. I think you are also in policy and planning and let our china efforts. Thank you for your service to the country and that kind introduction. My mom will appreciate watching that. Ive got some good friends here. Fellows here at hudson, this is one of the great think tanks to watch. Hudson dives down into the issues and gets to the bottom of things and punch way above its weight. The Hudson Institute plays a bigger than life role in Public Policy debate. A great think its think tank and institution. We are here to talk about china. Specifically the Chinese Communist party. Its one of those mixed things ive been to china many times in the past. I can go now, theyve disinvited me permanently. The Chinese People are great people and chineseamericans play a role in our country and our great immigrants. Unfortunately they are governed by a regime that wants to change our way of life. We were talking before the speech today, they are relentless, they are across every sector, every region of the world. Whether you are in the South Pacific or europe or africa, china is the popular desktop of your agenda. They are trying to change the way we live our lives, change our way of life and change the way the world is organized and thats dangerous. Today want to talk about competitiveness. There are so many areas we can talk about robotics and ai, evs and davies and batteries. I want to focus at least before we get into our q and a talking about semiconductors. Semiconductor technology is big with us. Everything we do everyone has an iphone or android phone. You probably dont think about it. Many semiconductors. Everything half of an f35 at the highend and the cuttingedge all the way to your washing machine to the f150 in my garage, it all depends on semiconductors so its Critical Infrastructure and the supply of those semiconductors is critical again to how we live in modern society and so the u. S. Investing in the chips act to bring Semiconductor Factories back to america and improve our fabrication plants in the Semiconductor Sector and secure our ability to live a modern life and literally enable our daily life. Without them, almost every aspect of Global Manufacturing comes to a halt. We saw this in the pandemic. I had ordered an automobile truck and it sat for months waiting for a semiconductor. The truck was constructed but it couldnt leave the lot or the factory without the semiconductors. We saw that not just their but people want to get refrigerators and washing machines. We saw the backlogs could happen in the pandemic. We also saw sky high prices and inflation. Not surprisingly given the importance of semiconductors at set to dominate the market. Not just the markets for the super advance, but for the semiconductors, the commodities, the legacy semiconductors. They want to control the market. We can eliminate our reliance on semiconductors. What we can do is minimize the risk that beijing poses if they can control Semiconductors Related to the rare earth elements and they become world leading chips. So diversification of our semiconductors supply chain is one of the areas we are on the cusp of achieving and i have a lot of criticism for this stance on supporting the chips act. As did secretary pompeo and secretary ross. The government managing the market. It was some of those critical to National Security. They stepped in to do something that geopolitical challenges in the generation, and not just in china but for what we are facing in russia. Secure the supply of chips, a particular semiconductors. It is critical. We cannot do it alone. Weve talked about what we called in America First foreign policy. Harkening back to ronald reagan. People singing goes back to roman times. The idea of America First, we need to work with our allies to secure the supply chain in the semiconductor area. When i talk about the west, talking about the idea of the west. Japan, south korea. So collaboration between Software Developers in the netherlands and equipment manufacturers in holland. Manufactures clause the across the globe. Japan, korea, all of that improve their situation visavis china. It is critical if we are going to derisk the supply chains and secure our ability to maintain our way of life, but how we manage our self in a minor society. Chinas economic rise provides a lot of hope. This idea more generally if we turned a blind eye to human rights abuses, to Tiananmen Square and tibet, a blind eye to the extinction of democracy in hong kong, if we allowed unfair trade practices, if we did all of these things china would become richer and in turn they would become more like us and become part of the global democratic world. The opposite happened. We saw society become more autocratic, to radical. They used the blessings of their membership in the wto to develop a surveillance society, something George Orwell would be astounded by with cameras everywhere and a way of life that is anathema to the west. No privacy, no liberty. We hoped they would become different but they havent. As they recently demonstrated the Chinese Communist party is not interested in becoming a partner. They seek to append the entire Global Economic order. Made semiconductors, dealing with robotics and ai, all of those are dependent on semiconductors. Going back to 2013 the ccp spent over one trillion yuan trying to become the dominant power of the world in semiconductors. They want to have an industry that dominates the entire sector. Like many things the chinese have done they have been successful. We constantly underestimate the chinese. When it comes to carrier aircraft, they spent a lot of years refurbishing it. We said they wont understand carrier aviation. Not only do they understand carrier aviation they are Building Three of their own they demonstrated they can operate and integrate with their ships. Landon launch on a rapid basis. We underestimate the chinese and we do that to our own detriment. They are hardworking people and they are motivated per they want to win. So in 2011, china had 1300 companies in the Semiconductor Industry. By 2020 they had over 22,000 companies in the Semiconductor Industry. Providing significant incentives to a lot of these companies to produce Semiconductor Chips at this scale. Granted most of these companies are focused on legacy chips, mature chips, not the super advanced chips. While these are less technically advanced than their smaller counterparts, they are Still Critical parts of our infrastructure and industry. Including defense. Whats amazing is the United States, our Defense Industry are still buying chips, Semiconductors Made in china. Which is incredibly dangerous. Including the legacy chips. If we dont we are vulnerable to supply Chain Disruption and thats worse. It provides economic leverage for the Chinese Communist party to affect policy. In the event of a conflict especially in the taiwan straits , theres no way our Defense Industry will be able to continue to buy chips from china in that situation. Moreover the chips are vulnerable to spyware and malware embedded in the systems. So they could deliberately choke us off and coercion as we know is the method to promote its own interests. They see economic interdependence and engagement and integration as folly. They talk about winwin but really in the ccps world its win lose. China wins and everyone else loses. The only way china can win is if everyone else loses. Chinas position has become clear. And addressing those ambitions head on. Military exercises, propaganda. The stability of our partners in china and taiwan, japan and korea. We saw this with the cutoff of minerals a few years ago when china was not happy with japanese policymakers and did for a time cut off to japan. It standard practice. With a sense of American Intellectual property, china and chinese firms legally disregard a national law and international law. Fortunately this is begun to wake up to the threat and the reality of the risk china poses not just to our country and National Security but to our business in the individual economy for businesses that rely on china. We need to figure out what our supply chains, onshore, resure and trust partners. We cannot do this alone. It has to be a group effort in the west and i might as well call the free world. To make sure supply chains for everyone. For african countries who choose not to go down the belton road route. For the countries that dont want to be the dont want a social credit score. The dont want cameras recording the lives of their citizen. For the countries that want to remain free, we have to create supply chains that are safe and secure. Doing so in this day and age in a strained budget environment, its going to be difficult. It will take added cost and effort. It will take a little bit what they dont like on the industrial policy side. To fail to do so would subject the United States to risk and allow people to be reckless. One of americas greatest advantages is that we have real allies. When you look, china does not have allies. They buy and rent allies. We have real allies. They are likeminded and share our values. They believe in liberty and the rule of law. For us to best compete in the Semiconductor Market with china and any tech sector for that matter whether its robotics or quantum or ai, cyberspace. We have to do some cooperation. Weve got to do some cooperation with our friends and allies. A discussion we will have and all of you, this is how we start to raise the awareness of the American People whats happening. We wrote an article, not just in semiconductors and all regions again to protect our way of life. A promotion for the rule of law and liberty excuse me to educate the american maintain our way of life and do so in a modern fashion. We will be modern people and leaders in tech and we can do that. At the end of the day, i bet every single day, every single hour, every single minute on the United States of america and people who are here. We will prevail in this competition between autocracy and liberty and the rule of law. We are doing it in a way that thank you very much. God bless you. [applause] thank you very much ambassador. A very good opening remarks, lets just stay say supply chains is a chain. Some links are strong and some are weak. What do you think are the strongest link on the american side . What would be the strongest on the china side and then the weak link on both sides. Amb. Obrien the strongest thing we have going in america and our allies, our ability to research and development. Our innovation and creativity. I was recently in japan and taiwan. Freedom breeds this entrepreneurial spirit. In the free world and the west are strongest area is innovation, entrepreneurship, and new ideas. I think we can maintain our advantage i think with the have done and i give them credit for it they are smart people and they had a plan. They hollowed out our industrial manufacturing capability. Starting out with toys and things now its at the semiconductor and robotic level. They moved manufacturing to china into countries around china they control where they have interest in the countries around china. They move that whole manufacturing sector. Its difficult to replicate that. We are seeing this with a chips act and we will have to invest a lot to bring manufacturing back to america and our partners. Our partners are all over the world. Mexico is a great partner. Costa rica, colombia, brazil. Singapore, vietnam. The philippines and thailand can be great partners in the manufacturing sector. India. It will take a lot of effort diplomatically and economically. They understand because there if to shift there is a conflict, they would lose them. We have to start thinking about now its derisk but i think its more, how we protect our supply chains and move them out of china. The chinese really control manufacturing and in certain important areas. Puerto rico used to be a big pharmaceutical manufacturing area and now its gone. That manufacturing is in china. Our strength is on the innovation front. Miles we all mentioned about u. S. China competition, the word competition is nice and gentlemanly and genteel. Meaning something a berkeley, stanford, army navy. With the assumption that both sides will act very cordially and follow a sense of the rules. China and the United States, they the state in china can command the entire economy. The u. S. Government cannot really tell apple and google what to do. We can only give them advice on the National Security front. How do you compete if both sides are completely different . Chinas definition of win is an americans loss. So its not like berkeleys when must rely on stanfords destruction. We used to think about u. S. C. Stanford is a Great University as well. Its not a competition. Whos the Top Ranked School in secondranked and thirdranked school. Its a competition about whose way of life will prevail and as you mentioned the chinese dont play by the rules. The intellectual property tax attacks over the past few years is what the director of the fbi said the biggest transfer of human wealth in history, the theft, not the Economic Development of china but the theft of american and western intellectual property and the transfer of that to china. A lot of you have been to rome and seen them bringing back the odd cart falls of loot that kept rome going for another 100 years. That used to be considered the biggest theft of property in history. What china has done, thats child slaves. Theyve literally stolen trillions of dollars from us. When you talk about competition its hard to compete with someone whos stealing everything in your house. If youre trying to keep up and theyre coming to your house and stealing your stuff as soon as you buy it thats not really competition. Theres no way to keep up if we allow this to happen. If it was just stealing rip that would be bad enough and we could talk stealing our ip that would be bad enough. Its also our trade practices. Its claiming to be a developing nation under the wto. That is following the norms of human decency when it comes to climate. We talk about Climate Change and what we can do. Theres nothing we can do because china is opening coal fire every month. If we closed every one of them in the west, china is making so many it wouldnt make a difference. If the chinese were pumping dirty coalfired plant emissions into the atmosphere theres very little we can do about it. Its the same with the ocean. Conservation is cleared about cared about clean water and air, but the water in china is the dirtiest in the world. What theyve done in the pacific ocean. Theres an island bigger than the big island of hawaii of garbage in the pacific ocean. Most of it came from the chinese and from their shipping and ecological practices. No one cares. Its difficult for American Companies and western companys to abide by the rules, to do what the epa tells them to do. We talk about worker safety and the chinese shipyards, they launch these ships, two or three destroyers a year at best. There are massive injuries that take place and they lose 60 to 80 workers a year to death at shipyards. At our shipyards we have signs that say zero deaths for 36 months. The way we treat our workers, environment, the rules we abide by arent abided by the chinese. Its hard to compete with someone when they are stealing from you and not abiding by the rules. Thats not a competition. We have to think of a different model to deal with the chinese. Miles last question before it goes to the audience. Recently a senior diplomat from a european country which has very heavy involvement with china. Its policy is prochina in a way. When you look at the actual number of investment in this particular country with china its relatively small but its concentrated on one or two Big Companies. Multiple in that country have divested from china because they realize theres tremendous risk from the investment. You cannot guarantee the return in the future is uncertain. So investment will not go there. So therefore there is derisking versus decoupling. Recognizing China Investment as such a big risk. Why do people like black rock in the Big Companies keep putting money in and how do you prevent . Amb. Obrien every time we took an action against china, human rights abuses, the white house would get inundated with calls from the most famous businessmen on wall street complaining. Some upset with us for taking action against china. But American Companies for the most part, the tech sector has started to realize the risk dealing with china. When you go into business in china you have to do a joint venture you have to have a political commissar from the ccp telling you what you can and cannot do. When you have to turn over your data and information on your company and share your patents, thats a bad idea and most Manufacturing Companies are sorting to realize that. You really dont own a factory in china you are renting from the Chinese Communist party. One area happens to be incredibly powerful thats in love with china is wall street. Guys like gray dally oh, they love china and theres a lot to love about the Chinese People, but the party is a threat to our liberty and they keep investing in china because they think eventually china will become free. I hope thats their motivation. And they think there or hedge fund or the return they will get on the investment investing in Chinese Companies will make them rich. A lot of houses in the hamptons and it was a cheap way for the ccp to have tremendous access to this country. Theres only so much we can do to regulate. What i tell them is if a war breaks out in the taiwan straits , relations get worse, there will be heavy economic sanctions. The toolkit america has his economic sanctions. A lot of it rises to that level. It may not be true in the taiwan straight but theres a blockade or Cyber Attacks or actions against taiwan the first reaction will be economic sanctions. The chinese have been preparing for that for many years and they are trying to suck as much American Investment into china as they can because they dont want their bonds canceled, they want to have some thing to fight back with. The way theyll fight back, the more u. S. Investors they can get the more leverage they can have over us and the more they can mitigate financial sanctions down the road. The wall street guys think thats ok because the u. S. Government will bail us out. It doesnt matter what happens. Wall street will get bailed out. I assume they feel they will get bailed out but i think theres a consensus the American Public wont go for bailing out black rock are for these companies that have made massive bets on china. Its a patriotic issue there. I understand money doesnt sleep and you have to chase the best return as a fiduciary and banker, but to invest in companies that are building warships or airplanes that will be used to kill american servicemen and women, theres something very concerning about that. To invest in companies that are abusing uyghuras. We have American Companies buying those products from slave labor. There are men being sent to vocational camps, work camps and han chinese men are being moved into their homes. When you think about whats going on, this isnt a contest of ideas. This is a choice between liberty and the worst form of totalitarianism. To have Big Companies on wall street say we can get a slightly better rate of return, theres no better investment we can make in america, europe, vietnam, the philippines or india. Theres no better investment in an economy thats dual use that will make platforms or they are abusing people of china, that something i think some of these wealthy guys, some of these masters of the universe on wall street, they dont care. They have to look in the mirror and think about what theyre doing and how much is enough. I say this is a republican. Im all for Free Enterprise, taking advantage of the opportunities, but to use your money in that sense it took a long time for people to get over investments in nazi germany in the 30s, a long time. I think at some point some of these Companies Investing in china will face the same reckoning and i think it will be sooner rather than later. If not as americans than as human beings. Miles i have one followup comment on that. During the cold war we fought against the soviet union which was the primary adversary of the United States. Today many people say we are in a similar situation with china but the fundamental difference between the soviet union and china today is in the soviet days, theres no major lobby group for the soviet union within the United States. Very few. Today its totally different. China basically advanced its interests mostly through lobbyists on wall street, k street and massachusetts avenue. You and i both served in the administration and i can say one of the one of my proudest moments achievements was under secretarys leadership, we almost completely repulsed a push from the lobby group on chinas behalf. Thank you very much. Amb. Obrien secretary pompeo, i initially worked for mike, you and mike did incredible work. Not just for this country but for people around the world fighting for freedom the way you did. I think on january 19, secretary blinken has cap that deck relation in cap that declaration in place. Thank you for the tremendous work. On huawei, i was given a brief and saying theyve taken over, they will have every cloud, every transaction that takes place will go through some sort of huawei base. So we will have to encrypt it from the chinese. We pushed back on them and not only to be pushed back, we won. Most of the allies and the free world have a skewed issued huawei. It was primarily you and keith and secretary pompeo, larry kudlow in the white house. I hate to name people because i dont want to do get sanctioned by the chinese. I know im not going back to beijing for holiday anytime soon. The work he did was tremendous. The chinese have a lot of money and with the soviet union did not have was the kind of wealth the chinese have generated. Weve never face this challenge as an american. Maybe when we were fighting england, the dominant superpower in the world to get our independence. One of the reasons of the challenge is they have every tool of National Power including economic weight to hire former congressman, former officials, through tiktok or hiring directly as lobbyists and then they fight to promote chinas agenda in america. Think about this, if america and American Companies hired former chinese officials in beijing to go to the communist party, the congress, the Central Committee as foreign agents to advocate for america how long do you think those lobbyists in china would last. Theres no reciprocity. Because we are open and the chinese understand our system they are taking advantage, lobbyists are just one example. You and secretary pompeo standing up to them, we are very proud of what you did. Amb. Obrien thank you for the remarks miles thank you for the remarks. Everything weve discussed today has been so obvious for decades. It takes leadership and enormous courage that really threw all these observations. Im so glad to be part of the team undersecretary pompeo. The surrounding and him sure the white house leadership and we have at term in this group of colleagues and im proud to be part of them. Thats go to the audience today. If you have a statement or analysis, please refer your answer in the form of a question as well. Wonderful presentation, a great discussion, its been interesting watching the trajectory of the Current Administration when it comes to china. At the very beginning they all felt they seem to be following the lead of the Previous Administration had taken and understood the adversarial nature of our dealings with china. It was important to be strong and even confrontational in certain key areas. But over time it seems the attitude has shifted to one of more accommodationist approach in dealing with china especially recently. The article you indicted for Foreign Affairs stressed the role congress could play in helping them deal with an adversary like china and i think we can say Mike Gallagher with a select committee and others have done a magnificent job in following up and pushing ahead with those measures. You and i know that there is no substitute for having an executive branch that fully understands the nature of the china threat and is willing to use tools that it has at its disposal to push back on chinas bid for global hegemony from supply chains all the way through to the pressure it brings to bear on the taiwan straight and all over the indo pacific. And now in europe. My question is lets suppose theres a change of administration after the election in november of 2024. From your perspective, what would be the two or three most important things a new administration could do to deal with that china threat. Amb. Obrien ive complemented the Biden Administration when theyve done the right thing on china. I think Jake Sullivan whos been particularly good with National Security in regards to china. They had the same issues we faced. Treasury is riddled with wall street folks, its very accommodationist towards china. Janet yellen going to china, kowtowing in a way we havent seen in many years. That was not a good sign especially on the heels of finding out there were reports the chinese had a lab in california they were running. If the chinese continue to keep up their malign activity we need to get the pressure on them. Its reasonable. Appeasement is something in a democracy thats very popular. We think other people are like us. We project our reasonableness on other people so we think if we stretch out our hand and say we want to work things out with you we will get reciprocity from the other side. They will take whatever we give them and say what have you done for me lately. There is no benefit from this onesided policy. Saying youll apologize, tell us that the lab had a leak and how do we work to prevent it again. That will never happen with the commonest party of china or any communist party. Going to your question i think its been a mixed bag with the administration. Weve got some hawks on china. But i think youve got janet yellen and a lot of those people who just want to do diplomacy and have agreements and appeasement and go back to how it was in the old days. I think secretary blinken has been pretty good but i dont think he truly has been mike pompeo with china. The chinese, we dont even know what happened to their foreign minister. Can you imagine of tony blinken just disappeared . And was scrubbed from the state department. That the type of regime we are dealing with. Back to your question, what this administration should do, number one we are facing a crisis with agriculture and farm land purchases. Some more mysterious but most were openly and notoriously chinese. The chinese are interested in buying agriculture in america. They have to be interested in agricultural lands, whether its in grand forks or locklin or sacramento. All the land and acreage around these air force bases is being bought up i the chinese. The fact we are allowing that is beyond absurd. And then were allowing them to build buildings with line of sight and buying property next to nuclear sites. We need to end that now. Some state governments are trying to do that. We would never let the soviets do that to us and the chinese would never allow, americans coming in buying all the farmland around the bases in china. We will bring in American Workers and staff that property. Thats absurd. This Outbound Investment in china. One of the things larry kudlow and i did, we had the savings plan and investing in Chinese Companies we would do this manufacturing. So we have the Retirement Funds put into a fund that was then invested in Chinese Companies that were Building Military equipment. We stopped that. We have to stop all u. S. Outbound investment. We should not allow american money to go to china. Number one its totally risky for the investors. The people investing, this is other peoples money. They are not putting their own money at risk. They are taking American Retirement and putting it into china knowing it could be shut off the second theres a crisis because of shame sanctions. The after protect american retirees and then the third thing we need to do which we need to proactively do. We can do without any those are american actions with american farmland, the third thing goes to we want to have a greener economy. We need rare earth elements to make those prague product. We can mine the rare earths here, in greenland. We can process them because we wont allow processing plants. Greenland or australia, texas, we need to start extracting rare earth and process them years of the free world has access to Rare Earth Minerals to build semiconductors and all the equipment and batteries we need for our defense and the economy of the future. Those those are three steps this administration can take. These are three steps the Biden Administration can take right now to increase her security and Economic Security and protect supply chains in china. From china. We dont need any cooperation to achieve those results. Thank you. Thank you so much. We are big fans. I want to talk to you and pick up on what you are talking about earlier. It seems if we will effectively compete with china we have to do it through outside our borders and be more engaged. You know this but every time i go to subsaharan africa, i dont care how remote a region i am in, the chinese are there. When you talk to those leaders or those Business Owners they all say the same thing, we would love to trade with the u. S. , we would love your Foreign Direct Investment but we are either not there or the chinese are there and upfront with all their bags of money and no strings attached. There still seems like theyre getting their first. I would like your thoughts on that because it seems if we will compete with them we have to do it in the regions of the world where weve been hesitant to do that investment. Amb. Obrien thats a great question. America has to engage globally. We have so much goodwill around the world, people love american music, culture, combined with our allies, of british and the french, the influence we have is tremendous. I used to travel a lot is an International Arbitration lawyer , all over africa and asia. There is always a sign up that says this is being brought up by the peoples republic of china, of this road is a gift to the people of kenya. These fiberoptic lines are a gift to the people of rwanda. I went to the east asia summit, his envoy to the east asia summit. I asked my staff the common refrain we were getting was america is abandoning asia, we are not there. I thought this is very concerning and i asked my staff put together what our investment is in the region compared to the japanese and chinese, our competitors. And they did so. The results were shocking. We invest over 1 trillion in asia, china and japan combined invested over 500 billion. We were two times china and japan combined but the narrative is we have pulled out of the region. The reason for that is twofold. Most investment came from American Companies, the microsoft, the googles, the exons who were there with your Company Brand names. Some sort of standard oil consortium. But not the usa. The chinese were touting what they were doing and our investment we werent broadcasting that so the narrative has taken hold and was fed that america has abandoned you when in fact we were two times china as far as investment in the economies. We need to let people know we are different and investment from u. S. Company, its the american way of life coming to invest in your company. National security advisor, but it doesnt actually say usa across the top. We try to do this branding. People of said its childish, but we send so much foreign aid overseas. Sacks of grain and rice, it will have all kinds of different labels on it. We came up just to let people know the more subsistence level foreign aid, this is a gift from the american your country. Were not giving 10 to a swiss bank account. This is aid from the American People who want you to do well and succeed and not go hungry. That program hasnt gone forward. We need to do a better job with our privatesector investment, of these privatesector companies are a result of the Free Enterprise we have in america. We want the more involved letting them know. The direct investment, we need to brand it and not be shy about it. Theres something about the judeochristian ethic we have that we dont want to tell people saying im giving you this and you owe me something for it. Yet thats not how things work in the world. We need to be more upfront about letting countries no the American People are supporting them and we are helping them out not in a way to make them dependent but to make them prosperous. And the chinese do a great job of that. Even if they eventually take the collateral back and own half your country. We do a better job explaining what the American Government does so we know we are engaged and not isolationist. We have to show that america cares. Amb. Obrien we need to do miles we need to do a better job explaining americas role. Unreported good deeds would show a tremendous display of influence. Just read the recent Public Opinion poll of 24 countries. China has a global reputation which is terrible overall. 67 average of 24 countries have a negative view of china. So all this money spent, the intention of chinas global outreach will be revealed to people sooner or later. Thank you so much for your time. A rising senior at berkeley so go bears. Amb. Obrien a lot of cal alumni year, this is great. I want to turn attention to industry and whether it be semiconductors or at large emerging technology and assertive interest in competition with china. See a lot of action in terms of export control, but we also have seen industry pushback against a lot of these actions the Current Administration has taken or is planning to take. I think coupled with the fact there are theories at times that pushes them to have capabilities on their own and have less reliance in the west for us, how do you balance the need at some level cooperate with the industry and make sure theyre able to be profitable and became this presence in the indo pacific at the same time ensuring we are not furthering chinas interest. Amb. Obrien its a hard question, hard to figure out where the balance is paid i knew the best way to do business with china is to sell china things. China should have an open market so minerals, oil and gas, raw materials, films and entertainment products. A lot theres a lot the chinese want from us and theres a lot we can sell. It furthers the interest of america and the trade deficit. The idea we should trade with china is a great idea. The problem is when you invest in china they get their hooks in you, they force you as soon as your company is doing well, they try to buy your company up in a fire sale and put one of the companies in place. They build a factory next to your factory and start making the same bits that were building a brand name american product in the morning and doing the knockoff at night. That kind of trade isnt helpful but selling things into china is good. The question you ask is where you make the distinction of something thats dual use or can be used against us. And what can we sell knowing its not a problem. Selling products with a technological advantage in a war fighting scenario. We need to make those calls but the idea of exporting to china is good, setting up and working in china is riskier. But we the idea isnt to cut off all trade with china but the chinese dont want to buy things from us unless they have to. They really want to get an auto targetingthey want to make everg they can in china and sell outward. Selling our goods, selling california and midwestern Agricultural Products to china is great. Even on those fronts if the chinese are upset with you they strip the imports. Or with the Film Industry where they only allow 10 or 12 American Films and they use access of those films to censor the films and take the taiwan patch of mavericks Bomber Jacket in top gun. If we can do it without hurting our National Security we get the chinese to open their markets, that would be a good thing for everybody. We have not had free trade with china for many years. Great question. I i have to apologize because we have a time limit. Thank you very much. I wish you could go on to further engage with us at the china center. Please visit our website and join me for a round of applause for our speaker. Thank you very much. [applause] [captions Copyright National cable satellite corp. 2023] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. Visit ncicap. Org] [indistinct chatter] congress rernin september with a busy schedule, both the house and senate e pected to take up federal spending bills funding the government there next year to prevent a government shutdown. Cuengovernment funding expires on september 30. Wmers are also facing end of the month ddlines to reauthorize the faa and pandemic preparedness programs. The senate will continue wor on more of president bidens judicial and executive nominations including for the federal reserve. Watch live coverage of the house, the senate on cspan two, and a rend that you can watch all of our congressional coverage with our free video app or online. Cspans washington journal, our live form involving you to discuss the latest issues on government, politics and Public Policy. From washington dc and across the country, coming up thursday morning we are getting your reactions to the most recent indictment of former President Donald Trump as we speak with hugo hugo lowell reported for the guardian on the latest indictment on the president and his efforts to overturn the 2020 election and his arraignment in court tomorrow. And then james from the Washington Examiner discusses the latest Trump Indictment and campaign 2024. Cspans washington journal, joining the conversation live at seven eastern thursday morning on cspan, cspan now or online at cspan. Org. Today a News Conference ahead of the federal arraignment of former President Donald Trump stemming from a special counsel jack smith investigation into election interference. It is being held by the not above the Law Coalition made up of a group of organizations calling for accountability for those that oppose certification of the 2020 election results, live coverage starts at noon eastern. Order your copy of the 100 18th congressional directory now available at cspanshop. Org, it is your access to the federal government with bio and Contact Information for every house and Senate Member and Important Information on congressional committees. The president s cabinet, federal agencies and state governors. Scan the code to order your copy today or go to cspanshop. Org. It is 2995 plus shipping and every purchase helps support our nonprofit operations. In 1848 husband and wife ellen kraft embarked on a journey of emancipation disguised as a wealthy man with evading traders and Law Enforcement all while trying to conceal their identities. The author of master slave husband wife recounts their harrowing journey north