Transcripts For CSPAN2 Key Capitol Hill Hearings 20240622

Them in places in the country where they would be much less likely to be engaged, but if they were engaged there were not only have the right to defend themselves, my themselves my presumption would be re would assist in. Is that a fair estimate . That is my feeling. It is what i said. I think we have an obligation to do so. I do not expect that occasions arise anytime soon. To get to the chairmans. And the very first vetting the thing, mr. Chairman that made the number so small, and i said the i said the number 60 and can look at your faces. The same reaction i do. Why is that number so small. The reason for that has to do with the criteria we applied. Some of this is the law to these recruits. We do counterintelligence screening. We make sure that for example they arent going to pose a green on blue threat to the trainers that they dont have any history of atrocities. These are all things that are required of us. Theyre willing to engage in the campaign in a way that is compliant with the law of armed conflict. All of this is legal and principled policy of the us as far as fighters are concerned. That is why 60 of them got out the other end. Now generally got a he has 7000 more and expects that we will do better as we get better and that number will get larger over time as he learns more to get to the chairmans chairmans earlier. About the groups that are willing to cooperate. But they when we do get them they will deserve our support, and we will give our support to them. It will take some time to get the numbers up to the. Where they can have an effect. Thank you. I i should. Out what we are talking about fighting, while these numbers are small, i need to. Out that there are other capable Ground Forces fighting both the regime and iso some of which we can and do support with airstrikes and so forth. But we would like to see more and are trying to get better at training them. A number 60 is is as you all recognize not an impressive number. Thank you. Senator sessions. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Mr. Secretary this is a tough job you have undertaken. Dont blame me. You asked for the job but im not sure you asked for it. At any rate senator mccains opening comment is exceedingly important. To achieve what we are here for the whole purpose of this hearing is how to confront and stop isys and boulevard. We wont talk about that. Not all these other strategies. We need a strategy on this problem. And i am deeply disappointed i dont see i dont see the confidence in your testimony or general dempseys testimony. I believe we are carrying out a strategy that the president has and i dont believe it has sufficient respect for the use of military force necessary to be successful. I hate to be a critic about this. This is important. Sen. Mccain mourned senator mccain mourned in 2011 that we should not pull out all our troops and we needed jermaine engaged in that country, and he is also warned you if we do it in afghanistan the same thing is liable to happen both of which would be tragedies of monumental proportions considering how much we have invested. So i am not happy about this i think delusion is a word that is to accurate. I just want to say that. And. And i hope we will get into more details about what you plan to do to reverse this action. At at some time the president is going to have to change his mind. Cannot just function based upon a Campaign Promise reality is different. Would you like me to address that . A very fair question. Let me just go back to the issue of the strategy and then Say Something about afghanistan. The strategy is for defeating isys on the ground to train and then enable local forces. That takes time. I am aware of that. That. General dempsey was training the iraqi forces a years ago i visited him. That was his primary responsibility. We havent training them for nearly a decade. That is not the problem. I think the problem is confidence within the Iraqi Government and the iraqi soldiers that they will be supported and will be victorious. Victorious. They have that confidence you would get more recruits. I agree i agree that that is what was lacking. You are absolutely right. You just said the strategy i believe you use the word strategy to support capable and motivated Ground Forces where we find them. I think general stuart a few months ago testified the new intelligence had who was there led them the forces which ended around. You remember that effort. He said when pressed i felt that he was reluctant because it was not administration policy, policy, but he acknowledged when you have embedded soldiers forward observers United States forces embedded with troops moving on the, situations that those iraqi troops will perform better. Do you agree . I agree that there are points on the battlefield where the presence of forward of jerk too far forward observers would make them more capable clicks so, our strategy now does it remain that we will not do that . I can tell you that i am not recommended it. I have not recommended it senator. You can explain you can explain why if you would like. I would like to know. Lets take the issue of air power because it seems to be the most prominent. A similar time in the afghanistan conflict in 2012 number of aircraft the number of aircraft that returned with ordinance because there were not targets available was 83 percent. 65 percent in iraq right now the j. The j tag in the special force observers are not a Silver Bullet. A Silver Bullet is getting the iraqis to fight. I totally agree with that i just believe that we have a few forces thousand forces in mosul it never would have fallen. Now our policy is to try to take back this territory and what is the reluctance . What is the reluctance to ease our to leave our special forces here . This is what bothers me. I understand the problem and syria and i am dubious about what we have to do. We we probably should not have involve ourselves in libya, but we committed our nation in iraq general. We have been deeply committed for over a decade. Is it now our policy that you are refusing to even allow special forces to the embedded onto special forces with 600 iraqi troops in a battalion . You are rejecting that idea . What i have recommended is that if we find a unit which is led and is responsive as often submission where we can enable them or increase their likelihood of success i will make a recommendation. To restore or to put embedded advisers and on the habitual basis the environment is just not simply set to do that. By the way, it is not reluctance. Reluctance. We have 1600 pilots flying over iraq and syria today. 3500. 3500 boots on the ground doing training advise and assist. We had a few advisors. You are saying that would not make a positive impact on their morale and capability . I am saying that for a brief temporal tactical gain we should wait until we see a strategic opportunity to do that. I would think if we started having some wins isys would have fewer recruits and we would have better morale with the iraqi recruits and they would fight better. The chicken and egg perhaps, but i think its important and i hope i hope you will reevaluate that and recommends to the president we do that because without that we are not going to be effective. Thank you very much. Clicks thank you and thank you for being here in service to our country. You can tell this is a pretty a pretty sensitive subject in a very concerning subject all of us. As i go around the state of west virginia, very patriotic state. They are confused right now. You heard the frustration. Basically iraq is not a united country. The sunnis and shiites and kurds. I think secretary carter you said until iraq has the will to fight which group is the will to fight to defend the other group. That is what we are having a problem with. It has it has been said if you have a group that is fighting for why do we still have to make them go through the baghdad centralized government in order for them to get the weapons that they need to defend themselves . There are confused about that confused and syria trying to spend the money to find people to train. When when you acknowledge we only had 60 successful right now and the amount of effort we are spending, but you had the syrian kurds that were fighting and some things of that sort. I dont know. And then i asked the question. We continue to keep trying to train and arm the iraqis. It seems like all they are doing is supplying isys with the equipment the americans are giving them. When are we ever going to stop giving equipment to the people that want defend and fight for it . So i guess i we at your level, are you level are you talking to the white house about rethinking the whole iraqi position as far as one centralized government, one iraq or maybe a separated iraq . I think we are all aware that it is very difficult to govern iraq and a multi sectarian manner. Have we thought about the alternatives to that . I think we all have for years and im sure all of you have as well. We are trying to assist the Prime Minister and governing in in governing in a different way from the way malik you governed which, as senator sessions noted, led to the disintegration of the Iraqi Security forces, the sectarian coloration of them and that is what led to the collapse in sunni territory. Been asked the question. Didnt we see signs that malik he was incompetent . He would have gone strictly to the sectarian position as he did not for a strong united iraq . With all the people we have had committed we not see that coming . I can only speak for myself and i was not closely involved. To govern iraq from the center, center but in a decentralized enough way that the kurds kurds sunnis command shia each had a no space to carry on their own welfare and the way that they wished wished but there is a single ventricle iraqi state. And that is what he says he is working toward. That is why, for example for example, when we provide arms of the kurds we do it with the consent of the Iraqi Government in order to indicate that we support the idea of a single Iraqi Government in baghdad but also want of the kurds in the fight and armed command that has not delayed our arming of the kurds. They normally have the sunni in the shiites. And this is why it is so important to take the time to train a truly multi sectarian iraqi force. There are elements that have that right character. Cts. And so our strategy is to train and equip those local forces. Then we can help them. And it is a chicken and egg thing except that you need to have the capable and motivated ground force. And we can enable it. I think that i think that it has been pointed out. We had 100,000 troops at one time trying to train defend. 2,000 or sessions. That is worth mentioning my judgment about how this will evolve over time is that it is a generational issue. It is trans regional. Elements in afghanistan. We see it in iraq and syria, sinai, libya and we can just focus like a laser beam on one part. Has to be pressured across it. We are trying to achieve and enduring defeat which means we have got to work it through partners because they own people that have more to gain. Why are we forcing something upon people that dont want to accept it . Just follow up. Everything i recommend is recommended the attention of being flexible enough that we can build upon the. I i cant help but mention the situation they said general betray us in the surge iraq war was one. To ignore that in that conversation intellectually dishonest. Clicks just for the record pres. George w. Bush signed an agreement. We will have this debate later on. It was clear that we could have an everyone knows we could have. Sen. I want to thank both of you for being here for your service to the country. We appreciated. Wanted ask you, you ask you, you said in answer to senator mention then that the arms that we are providing. We are not the only ones, but we ones but we and others basically convey the directly. That doesnt delay arming. The Central Government quite seriously at her complaints. A few weeks ago. Grateful will be provided delays. Part of equipment or that of others the germans providing any take munitions which the value very much. Iraq is a single unitary multisectarian state. That is much preferred to the alternative. Let me follow up. They capture soviet. Some of them heavy armaments. Quite effective. Its hard if youre out armed. Are they now receiving. Our chairman. Again, just to say it is not just us. More than 12 nations overall arming the kurds. I noted i was with the German Defense minister in germany last week. She was providing these critical and i think weapons. Especially effective. An Effective Ground force that will stick up for up for itself altogether to take and hold territory. Brought agreement. We want to agreement. We want to make sure we have what they need. Address those quantity issues. I want to do a followup a different topic. General. General dempsey you mentioned your testimony the maligning influence. Today i read the press the lifting of the arms embargo and also the resolution of bands iran. I wanted to get your thoughts on those two issues and the importance. As far as i can tell we still need iran always supporting the asad regime has blah the hutu rebels and we have heard reports on the taliban. Your thoughts . I will start. You are right. I cannot speak to what is going on the negotiation. But i agree with your perspective that there are we have serious concerns with uranium maligned activities outside of the Nuclear Issue which is the focus of the talks. Whatever happens as far as an agreement over the Nuclear Program we have a clear duty in the department of defense first of all to defend our friends and allies to keep robust robust posture maintain a robust posture and to continue to maintain military strike irans Nuclear Program. We work on all three of those things and will work on them whether or not an agreement is reached in geneva clicks just of the clear, mr. Sec. It is not sound like based on what you are saying hell be a good idea to lift the arms embargo right now. Clicks military and limited. Clicks and also can you explain do is why its important that we also continue to stop them . We know they have one. Clicks the reason we want to stop them from having an icbm program is that in the the eye and icbm stands for intercontinental which means having the capability of life. Just answer your question. The pressure relative to Ballistic Missile capabilities. Clicks capabilities. Clicks thank you. I also just wanted to. Out something one thing that i think needs to be pointed out to the pres. Has said he will veto it. The Defense Authorization receive 71 votes in the senate. I i would describe that is very bipartisan. Troubles me that he would seek to veto something. Clicks thank you. I just got back. One of the meetings we had was with the member of the sunni tribal leaders. The people who are meeting your ass. No Food Supplies and have been told the only heir air with the can commend will be a military transport. Something you can do to be of a these individuals. We will Say Something about that. First of all, i want to thank you for traveling. Thank you for taking the time. The humanitarian situation is yet another tragic consequence of what is going on. On. It remains one of the coalitions efforts as i indicated in my Opening Statement to relieve the humanitarian situation which is difficult to do there is not order and control. This is why we need to get a do the security situation that is stable. Ground forces that are capable of seizing territory, holding territory, and governing, the only way to get the situation turned around. It is sad and tragic. In the case of iraq something brought about by the reemergence of sectarianism. Clicks one of the reasons we went to the air base is to advise and assist in the anbar Operation Center for these center for these kind of issues should actually migrate through. The iraqis the iraqis have the to address that. They have c130 j stateoftheart clicks i know they do but they are not. We will pass it to the guy who is embedded. When youre you are hungry your stomach doesnt tell you. You just want help. One of the bonds created we always felt that we could count on you. The followup not as we look at the money and other areas in the iraqi armed armed forces for one of the great tragedies of this whole thing was that the number of fighters was extraordinarily insignificant in terms of the overall number but the iraqi forces head of the other way. And so i wanted to hear your thoughts on making sure that the iraqi forces know that there is no back door. Theres only one way through and thats forward. I will Say Something about that and you may want to add. The way you recount the fall is exactly correct. Correct. The mady needs to be retaken the way to do it is to have a a force under the commandandcontrol competent command and control of Iraqi Security forces commanders which has been a challenge. And a plan and the means to as you say make sure that they dont bog down and are able to take riemannian move through, this will be a test of the competence of the Iraqi Security forces and it is a a test that they must pass and therefore power in the coalitions involvement is to try to train and equip and support them to be successful. Youll take the time and encourage them to take the time so that the operation when they do conducted a successful. One of the side spinoffs when it is successful and were mady is taken back is that isys will then look for a quick claim somewhere else. And so i just want to make sure that we are ready and surrounding towns in areas. The. Mady falls we know they will step somewhere else in that we have a plan in place to protect those of the council the campaign which about a month ago a month ago was about to be executed precipitously has actually been very deliberate Campaign First to isolate and then to go back and recapture with the supporting effort in falluja our presence in the anbar Operation Center is allowing the Iraqi Security forces to take a more deliberate campaign approach and to avoid the very toothpaste aspect of the way this court around. This is very much us helping them understand the threat and formulated campaign to address it so that they get credit for it and that they become credible to the people of how Anbar Province clicks as i am sure you know the sunni tribal leaders have a tremendous value for the relationship they have established over the years but the United States. Established in blood and treasure. Treasure. And so what gives them confidence more than anything is knowing that not that our soldiers are in the front enough that our soldiers are in the combat competently a day to help guide and help provide advice and help provide plan and help provide air cover is the other thing i talk to i talked to us about. You have no idea how our spirits soar. And so they want to make sure that all of that is going to be in place as we move forward. And they are willing to buy in. If if not they feel that families are exposed. I i see my time is running short. In syria you dont have to answer this. The question comes up when he goes it feels how does the space get filled with people who we think can be of help as opposed to mr. Or mr. Or isys . That is a tremendous challenge you have. And it and it seems like were getting further behind the curve as opposed to in front of the. Thank you, mr. Chairman clicks thank you mr. Chairman. Sec. Foster chairman, mr. Chairman thank you for appearing for your testimony. I would like i would like to associate myself with the remarks chairman mccain made helen arming the Ukrainian Government. Government. He and i traveled there last month. We saw very brave and skilled soldiers doing things like constructing Unmanned Aerial Vehicles out of styrofoam to meet their needs. In addition to lethally they also still need a substantial amount of nonlethal aid. Some soldiers have the improved first aid kit. Some soldiers have first aid kit of a great that came out of prophecies. Prophecies. The moving on to the Islamic State one issue i dont i dont believe has been discussed is the Islamic State in egypt. They have been a series of spectacular terrorist attacks in the sinai peninsula. The Islamic State takes credit. We still have the Multinational Force and observers almost 1800 soldiers 1800 soldiers with 1200 of which are american personnel. Can you explain to us what steps we have taken to ensure that our troops and the sinai are adequately protected and are working with the egyptian Security Forces to not just defend themselves and try to defeat the Islamic State clicks thank you. Let me address the ukraine part first and of the chairman can address sinai. Thank you. Ive been there many times. They the government and the people there particularly in the western part vladimirs conduct has had the opposite of whatever effect he thought it might have in terms of attracting ukraine in the direction of russia. He has strengthened the feeling among ukrainians particularly in the western part of the country. They want to have a future that they determined that determine that does not determine from outside. We are constantly assessing. And this goes back to the chairmans. , the kind of assistance we provide. The principal kind of assistance will come back to the military part but i cant emphasize the importance of economic assistance. And that is largely in the hands of the europeans. And also are the sanctions against russia. That is the main event. I cant emphasize enough the importance. That is mostly a a matter for the eu rather than the United States. Most directly involved certainly support the eu and its sanctions against russia which we share but theres are more important. Also their also their efforts to strengthen the Ukrainian Government and economy support reform in the independence of the ukraine. I did talk to the defense minister about what he needed and his principal focus was on training. As i said we will constantly reassess but we are assessing that. I am open to what we do in the future. I have indicated that but his emphasis was on training we have trainers now in a principal training range. He was asking me and asked for more of that kind of training. I think we will continue to do that and to support the ukrainian military. Military. The defense minister used to be the interior minister which is a very good combination. The russian separatist threat is a hybrid kind of threat hybrid in the sense that it is signified by the little green men phenomenon. A combination of the exercise of malign influence through kgb type tactics on the one hand and battlefield operations on the other. And he is someone who understands that hybrid warfare. Clicks thank you. I dont mean to cut you off. I have other questions clicks about nine months ago anticipating and watching the intel stream until stream but the radicalization of the sinai. In fact, the Egyptian Armed forces have moved resources to their western border. We did a joint staff integrated Vulnerability Assessment and as a result introduced blue force tracker, changed Movement Techniques enhanced communications put in counter mortar radars things you are familiar with we also have been in touch with our Egyptian Armed forces colleagues to increase the number of egyptian arms, brought back Egyptian Armed forces into the sinai accompany us on movements when we make them and we recently released some of the capabilities that have been withheld so that they could address the terrorist threat. You are confident that american personnel in the sinai currently have adequate protection against terrorist activity . I am confident they are adequately protected the fully expect that threat to increase. Clicks thank you. I you. I would like to move to the heart of the middle east and Islamic State. A grave and growing threat. Until they develop their own Ballistic Missile program have thousands of centrifuges and tons of uranium Islamic Republic will be a grave threat. The Islamic Republic of iran my objection to the course we have taken is well wellknown and i will not repeat them but iran remains an antiamerican terror sponsoring outlaw regime that is responsible for the deaths of hundreds of americans from lebanon to iraq, afghanistan. You served three different tours and are associated with iraq. How Many American soldiers died at the hands of uranium militia . I recently heard the chief of staff chief of staff of the army that number about 500. Hundreds of americans died and probably thousands of wounded or suspected of being wounded. What what should we say to the families . Tens of billions in sanctions relief without them changing their behavior clicks i tell you what i told them, solving the Nuclear Issue diplomatically is a positive outcome, make no mistake at least five other malign activities in which ran is engaged because the grave security concerns. You know what they are. Ballistic missiles sea bass mines, mines, cyber activity, arms training answer is. Clicks thank you. Clicks thank you. Thank you for being here and for your commitment. You testified before the House Armed Services committee that i would not i would not recommend we put us forces in harms way simply to stiffen the spine of local forces. You you continue that this plan is not stiffened nothing we do is going to stiffen it. So what is it going to take to stiffen the spines of the local forces . Actually, what i actually, what i said was if it takes us to stiffen their spine in the face of a threat that is existential than it does not seem that they will be stiffened. I do think the things that we are doing expanding our network of points where we touch them help them trying to help them target to help them understand how they integrate with each other those things that have the effect of giving them greater confidence. I just made the. That i dont think the added step of accompanying them in the combat would make a strategic difference except if we get to the. Where there is a major offensive that we think could be increased in terms of its probability of success by our presence. We are taking those steps that will enable them to be able to fight for themselves i agree that there is no number of troops we can send that will result in a lasting situation. You also talked about your recent trip to israel where you discuss recent scenarios i dont know whether his departure is anywhere in the near future but lets assume it is. How would it affect the dynamics . What i sil step isys step in to fill the power vacuum . How would the departure change our strategy regarding isys . Let me tell you about our military planning efforts. Israeli counterparts and jordanian counterparts very much believe that the possibility of either the regime collapsing or on clearing itself is possible. And so they were eager to have consultations with us about what that would precipitate. Your description of it is one that at least our regional partners express which is to say we dont want this to be a foot race if it occurs between how mr. And iso and all of these other groups converging. Sit here and sit here and tell you that i have the answer to that but we are in consultations even as i sit here with the turks turks, israelis, and jordanians about the scenario clicks what you are doing is to prepare for that possible eventuality and to ensure these other groups dont just happen and take over. Lets say that let me put it this way. If beside the parts does that somehow make our mission simpler easier to target . Is that a way to think about it . On marble. The presence of the sod these radical ideologies or they emanate somehow else and simply use the presence of the regime as a recruiting tool . Bennion how you answer that question will largely shape how you think about solving the problem. The situation militarily is such that what we are trying to provide with partners is options. That is to say were trying to form a network of partners that we may not have conceived before like the why pg, syrian kurds in and around the bonnie and over to the east bank. Were trying to provide options that will allow us to shape and to react depending on the internal situation, how it evolves, and we are working most closely with those who border syria who have the most to gain in the most to lose. Turning to the training we are doing with the moderate Syrian Forces will recognize you are having great difficulty while training out always syrians but in iraq and you have described this as a generational challenge. While we are slowly training the local forces to fight for themselves what are some of the other things that we need to be doing contemporaneously . Nine action items that need to be occurring at the same time . Clicks it is. It is. For example, sen. , if i may, in recognition of the fact that it is going to take some time to build the forces and how we are going to do that we need to defend ourselves in the meantime because there are parts that would like to attack us in our friends around the world and that is where Homeland Security and the fbi and the rest of our efforts to protect ourselves commend. On on the one hand we need to go to the territory where isys rose and defeat at their command we will do that, but at the same time and in the meantime we need to continue to defend our people and our country against these guys. Some of them have the ambition to go to syria train and come back to the United States. You see that in europe. We see some signs of that in the United States that is why i was so laborious and describing the lines of effort the ones we are talking about the principal responsibility, two of those nine the others really are critical as well because as sen. Cotton said a moment ago, isys is a grave threat. Threat. These guys do want to do us harm and our friends and allies in the region. You asked about the asad regime and the chairman answered. Obviously we would like to see asad to leave the scene but for the state of syria not to disintegrate completely because we know what is down that road for sectarian disintegration. Now, that is that is a diplomatic task that is underway as the chairman indicated that is the outcome that would be by far preferable only for the United States and our National Security interest but for the people of syria who are suffering so terribly. So terribly so many refugees. It is really a tragic situation. But asad needs to go. The structures of governance need to stay over health it will stay because we know what life is like without structure governance clicks thank you. Thank you, mr. Chairman clicks sen. Thank you mr. Chairman. First of all let me just say thank you for your service of the country. We find ourselves as country. We find ourselves as you stated, in a precarious position. General dempsey, as i sat here and listens to your assessment of the world today your. Of view it was alarming to find that i location after location we find ourselves being challenged. We find ourselves being pressured into positions of perhaps ten years ago who would not have found ourselves and whether it in b with regard to the pacific rim areas or anything area and so forth. Our challenges are many. Yet the same time it does not appear that this has come in as a surprise. His father along and specifically into the area we had today which was in terms of our challenges and defeating it seems to me that we have found ourselves once again the position where there were not surprises. The secretary stated that the Security Forces were severely degraded. A year ago this june. The sec. Was not in his position at the time. You were. Were. Was that a surprise . That collapsed because of poor governance and sectarianism. I was surprised at the rapidity of it. I suppose i would suggest that the degree to which the have had been changed out for all the wrong reasons for the conditions under which that occurred. If for divisions were lost if they were there today would forward divisions make a difference between us moving forward with the defeat, or is that not the right number . What is the right number in terms of its on the ground cannot not american puts on the ground but allied forces what is the number that it takes in order to move forward with whatever strategies are in place if there are strategies in place . What is the number we want to see on the ground . The commander of centcom has testified that to recapture eventually he believes he will need approximately nine brigades worth of Security Forces six from the government of iraq and three from the kurdish region. That would be for muzzle. Restoration of the border which would be the ultimate step for restoration of their sovereign territory defined as the border between syria and iraq that would be largely a federal police or border issue. I i am not aware that that number has been identified. The initial goal is to form the equip nine equipped nine brigades. What is the timeframe . Putting a temporal dimension on this is risky had passed because the campaign is dependent on the coalition and dependent on the network of factors that include the sunni tribes the Iraqi Security forces themselves with the Counterterrorist Service on the kurds the act of describing when those groups could all come together to establish the conditions to do this is just difficult to pin down. Even if i knew the answer i would be low to report it to you in an open hearing. I have said that from the beginning it was probably a threeyear effort to restore sovereignty. Here are eight months and. General, we pride ourselves and. Out the fact that we truly do have the greatest fighting force the world is ever seen. Yet yet right now we find ourselves as the president stated some time ago called isys the jv team. Clearly that is not the position that i think the administration would take today. They are they are clearly a threat. We have identified and ninepoint plan in which you identified all the things that have to happen including the defense of our country from these individuals. At what time during this threeyear timeframe or what is the possibility during this threeyear timeframe that the patients that you have shown that the secretary is alluded to call what is the probability that this timeframe gets away from us . Are we in a position to make this last . At what time does it look like we will have to have this up using our own resources to a greater degree . I said three years for iraq. The generational problem because of its allure. Notably the sunni sect. We just have to have the city partner in order to address this challenge. And so although i have said three years, it is more like a generation which is loosely defined as 20 years 20 years to address the violent extremists allure. And that will only be stripped away when someone takes care of them and governs them. Are there are there points at which we should and would consider the introduction of additional us military capability . The answer is yes. I think you have seen us to that in the raid that we conducted in the syria to capture and kill the group affiliated with abu sayyaf and the financial network. I think that we are always on the alert or always on the lookout for those opportunities and can use our capabilities as necessary to do with those. Do you feel that you are in a politically appropriate position and would have the backing to step in when needed to take care of the problem . If you are asking i cant answer what answer would receive. I have the confidence my recommendation would be accepted and debated in the context of Everything Else we are doing let me help out if i may. I think that part of our strategy is to look for opportunities to do more in the sense of creating cable Ground Forces that we can support. We kind of welcome those opportunities. We are taking them in the case of syria. I dont want to speak of the chairman, but in terms of his the opportunity to do more in that sense not as a substitute tall but as a a way of enabling them and assisting them that really is the strategy. I think we welcome those opportunities. Were trying to create the opportunities as was noted earlier. Are taking opportunities are taking opportunities in the kurdish area and hope to have more including and syria. My time has expired but i make one comment. It appears to me that if our strategy is waiting on other people to get their stuff in order that does not seem to be as practical as taking advantage of and literally going on and proactively taking care of the problem. We have the greatest fighting force in the world in the last thing i i want to see is have them engage boots on the ground. But if it means boots on the ground or additional folks there fighting there as opposed to having a successful attack on the homeland a think we all agree it will be out to be doing and hope that the strategy includes that is a possibility clicks senator clicks sec. , secretary, chairman, welcome to you both. Thank you very much for your service. Let me start by saying that surge or no surge it is pretty clear to my constituents that the iraq war remains one of the greatest us foreignpolicy mistakes of the last century and one that i hope we have learned a few lessons from. I want to follow up on what the sen. Raised. One senator raised. One lesson that i believe we should have learned by now is that eliminating one terrible middle eastern dictator and too often lead to more brutal influences. We have seen that play out too many times. We would like to not see that happen in syria even though the persistence of assad at the helm in damascus is a fuel prices and others fighting him. He needs to have that he will but we want to see the structures of governance go at the same time. That is the challenge but that is what were trying to achieve. I think that is the right goal ledges went to make sure we are prepared for that because weve missed the ball in the past. And if we saw a damascus lose governance capability but secretary carter you mentioned to be successful on the ground against isil with a fight led by local capable Ground Forces i dont think we should give bin to impatience and should not be western forces or american forces. We have heard that from our partners in places like the shortage which means we have to train motivated in reliable partners you have gone over this small number of forces recruited and what the challenges are in the vetting process. Are there other factors you attributed the lack of trainees . And what steps in addition to what you are taking is the Iraqi Government taking to address the shortfall to meet those trading targets . The principle of limiting factor on the sunni treaties which is one of our focuses is the belief the government in baghdad was not fully supportive of them. That is the challenge before the Prime Minister refuses to wednesday that and it is critical because only sunni can take back anbar and can govern anbar when it is over. So if were going to rest and far from the likes of isil remus have the sunni on our side and they are saying all the right things and for us. I agree wholeheartedly with your analysis of my concern is are they doing enough to generate the death in the region . At t is doing everything he personally can. I think he is challenged in baghdad by a others who would have it the old way, of the sectarian way. So he is not able to make everything happen and we have had delay and frustration as a result in things are getting better. It was noted earlier there was some confidence among the sunni tribes to equip them and support them to get them back into the fight 92 was standing the difficulties of the sectarian governance in iraq. In the meantime, and i said this before, we need to take action to defend ourselves against isil typically for fighters even as we defeat them in the place that they have metastasized with the Global Network and we have to fight where they are. And we do that every day. One very last general question you may have seen the article from a couple of days ago that is a modern example that the enemy of my enemy is my friend. There are a number of entities that may be enemies of the u. S. Our allies that share the say in opposition to ruth isil what are your thoughts on that observation generally . And isnt it that reality that is part of the reason this is such a complicated debt to crack . It is the reason why and sectarianism is what brought us to this point so we are and have supported elements of the Iraqi Security forces that have a very large faugh shiah composition to them but if and only if they are control of the government of iraq and there are she forces in iraq not under their direct control because that is sectarianism civil war. We go well beads that down that road. The qa secretary for being with us today and i appreciate your efforts in this area. I will like to start with you because i am very confused right now that you had stated earlier and had affirmed to the senator that we are directly are being the kurds in consultation with the Iraqi Government. Would you say that again . You guys are using the word directly but let me be clear which is we do that in a way that does not deliver delayed the shipments of but it is through the government of iraq. We are sticking with that principle not because we dont want to help the kurds but we also want to stick up for the principle of sectarianism that we are insisted it does not lead to delays but we want to make sure he gets the right kind of equipment in a timely manner and they are and are performing extremely well. So we are are being the kurds . But there are no significant delays because a want to emphasize over the last several months a number of my colleagues and i have been working on legislation in consultation with the Iraqi Government i know the u. S. Secretary kerry already had letters to the committee of this phasing he should not be directly are being the kurds in consultation because there were no delays but now the president has said we will arm them in the expedited manner but if there were no delays now why does it need to be an additional several hundred members on the ground that we are expediting the up process . I need to clarify because that is what secretary perry said he does not have the authority to do. Following the fall of ramadi if the kurds failed to be more inclusive that it could be curtailed so considering the of all of the most western part of iraq that did not trigger a Decision Point with its commitment to iraq i am not sure what else it needs to fail at before the administration changes its strategy. Peshmerga are willing partners and we need to do more for them. But continuing today get hope and pray the sectarian Iraqi Government which is still overshadowed the we have heard by previous Prime Minister from marion i dont believe they will defend them equally. But to talk about more inclusive i hear this time and time begin again and what does that look like and how do we measure that . I would beginning by noting the words of the Prime Minister if you use the word it decentralized i racked, there is a Central Government baghdad the state of iraq among the sunni and the kurds say indicia that is a wise way to approach will tell sectarianism. With the government in baghdad that allows the different parties there period the degree of Self Determination to maintain their own territory to govern themselves our share. That is what he says they are for and how they describe it. In my judgment certainly that is better than the alternative of sectarian disintegration which still could ocher but looking into that of this of further violence for the citizens of iraq and further opportunity for groups like isil better not preoccupied with the longterm welfare of the territories that the occupied that is the Prime Ministers definition of retrying to support that to make good on that definition anything too bad . But militarily what were watching for with the government of iraq and its control over groups that are not directly responsive if there is retribution. And as the families are coming back after they were captured or killed in return and once it unfolds to ensure the population force is this not characterized by i retribution and. Getty partners that are really we need to assist though assist them. You stated you have not seen a request last from the kurds on the type of equipment and arms that they need . No. I have seen them and we have honored them we have shipped equipment. There are a number that are eclipsing the kurds and in some places they prefer like germany and it is tied with us as they provide this. One thing that the president s press but i just want to make sure that we are clear on that. We just go with their German Defense minister and that it can govern within the territory that it controls and what we are looking for in that entire region. Thank you very much. Thank you. I have a number of questions and concerns about the one going problems against isil but i have to begin to save my eight concerns about the strategy pale next to my concerns about congress and let congress is doing. The reader not giving you a bridge in it and using a gimmick of the past but we are not giving you the budget because lets be blunt congress to this point budget caps enacted 2011 is the higher and then we will not give you the budget that you need. It is my hope when you testify we will find a better path and though the chair has been significant to speak out for this but were not doing what we ought to be clear also not doing what we ought to be doing under article one section eight to declare war tomorrow is the anniversary of the Campaign Spending 3 billion with 3500 away from their families and aside from a single vote in december there has not been a House Committee action, of any significance or any debate on us live on the floor even though threequarters believe there should be u. S. Military action against ramadi but we dont want to have that vote will want to be held accountable for a vote. We can criticize all we want to put congress is not doing either like provide a budget to win and authorize war. I think we could make our criticisms have of great debtor legitimacy as an institution of what we are supposed to do. I just returned from a the region. We are achieving some significant successes against isil in some parts of the battlefield and iraq and syria largely where we are relying on partners are the kurds. The Regional Government and the kurds in the north of syria. The president , you met him on sunday and with the Obama Campaign up to save the existence and they indeed with that. Not that youre not getting weapons are we dont like working with baghdad but thank you for helping to save us save our region and way of life. That was not by accident. It is the strategy to help save important ally by acting when the president did. There are challenges for go the iraq communication challenge was very happy and there is a mixed reviews. Positive of the intent but of the followthrough in the sunni area in particular some support the anbar governor with the Prime Minister is doing in the tribal leaders dont think that what we your doing well we can do when they looked at what we do with the currents compared to not doing with them. And dealing with the routing of the into expose flew but the third of their flagship promises by a kurdish and headfirst that has been they have deprived the militants but they would force them onto the defense it would have been unthinkable as one month ago. That is what is happening right now. There is no worm in the apple and as we have succeeded with our partnership has caused grave concerns by the turkish government and a number of the other forces in syria that we partner with. Fatah we continue to manage the kurds to be successful and partner with them without causing additional to also help. And thank you once again it is much appreciated. I will start with turkey. They have a longer common border with syria and iraq that has remained permeable throughout the course of the conflict. And we have people that as the chairman alluded to a while ago, in order to try a to get them to up their game , they have a strong stake in the next with the ability to the south. I believe they could do more along the border. In the meantime it is true the kurds are acting incapable and we are supporting them and that is successful. The tension with respect by a letting each of them succeed with their own territory within the allows them a substantial opportunity with their own destiny within or with control. That is multi sectarianism in iraq. It is a lot tougher in in this area. But syria but that is the objective. To have the sunni tribesmen the you have leaders to be as successful as the kurds are and we wrote them them as we try to stimulate demand so forth and were willing to do more. When we have the capable ground force as we did, said the kurds in the north have the it would be foolishness and as they come under attack for the regime of assad than we would lose all credibility in there was encouraging administration to clarify that aspect of rules of engagement. I have been asking that question for a long time and i keep getting the answer we have not made that policy decision. It is shameful to send people in and not assure them we will defend them against attacks by beryl bombs. Senator . I still down know what were talking about but we had the Legal Authority to. Is there a doubt . I am not sure about the legalities to be quite honest. Put it this way if there is any doubt whether or not we have Legal Authority to protect troops against assad you dont have to answer right now but there is no lack of Legal Authority. I appreciate the thought. Thank you for your decades of service. General dempsey would you agree there are more but any time since. When it comes to iraq but i certainly agree. For the turks is separate state would be problematic and with iraq a substantial autonomy of decentralized. Do you agree general . Partitioning is not a viable strategy. It do any of you believe the kurds have the ability for the oil to go liberate ramadi and youre obviously trying to facilitate the movement south said it doesnt matter the only reason i say that is they are getting a to the edge of the territory civics anybody to suggest the kurds havent answered our problems know they each. They will not liberate syria. Do you agree . They will not be a liberating force. What is more likely the president and. It is certain with the president s of that is an easy question. We will be in power then. Who leads first . I certainly hope it is assad. I dont think so. If he stays in power do you worry about jordan or lebanon to be in serious the way it is going . I think jordan and lebanon are already suffering those defects. It is even get worse step that is the concern we should all have. It is unjust the Syrian People but the neighbors as well. No arab force would go. She once to see we were getting and and were finding people whose principal security for their own people or villages is ijssel. And there are others who will go after another matter. Bay are recruiting so this will the only way that i will be to go into syria. Day you believe no Ground Forces but to go into syria. That some loans sensible and they certainly wish such a force would be created and one of the biggest disappointments is that that world more broadly. Dig into that. If we went to turkey, egypt, saudi arabia tomorrow and said we would like you use your army. Would do three that we have to make him a bad army and of you willing to do that. But sadly none of them has indicated that the rest of the sunni conflict but i know the answer is for the turks to state their position that definitely they want assad to go. I suggest we went to petre is steadier arabia and the middle east in they told us we would gladly join forces with you upon the condition is the hyatt target is nobody in the United States will tell them if we are willing to take them on militarily as part of the ground force. I would suggest with divvying upset with that world that our problems lie with ourselves not putting ourselves on the table militarily. Du think assad is . Senator as you know, his position on the battlefield is more tenuous to day then it has been for a long time. But the point is is our effort designed to take care not militarily . Our approach has been as we have stated clearly, to try to find a political exit rather than the u. S. Led military exit. That is the approach. Thank you. And thinks for your decades of service and that includes you mr. Secretary. I want to followup on the line of questioning. What would be the likely strategy . And the structures of the government of damascus not directly associated with assad or his deplorable behavior the structures of government are in place to identify which is reflective of those aspirations then in terni and the rest of the International Coalition they would be pleased to support them in that. Does is it assad exiting sooner rather than later, does that create conditions setter so chaotic for the interest of the United States or is the interest in him leaving sooner . But you dont know what is on the other side. I know it is an unsatisfying to talk about the political transition from. Which of course, will be difficult with iran to be his mentor. Private vladimir persian hair of rupees of accommodations but first of all, these community will fight for the territory in the northwest. But once again that it is further conflict and put the parts you can see on the other side but the russians perhaps and i know we have been in contact with the russians about that over the years. Certainly they would. There is a map of and maybe it is. The only solution is the solution of a political exit for assad so we can go after the extremist and provolone. But i changed this setting and in fact, we are peshmerga. Now he aims his gun. With iraq comedy think the new Prime Minister has the capability but with respect to a the first part of your remarks, i will always be truthful and the emperor. Get in retrospect then tell believe he hid a washington then disposed to many of field, the in the way did hence proceed to japan is. We continue to use support him for iraq is the best test of could very a ainge. We wish you the best of luck in your future endeavors for cry of not sure this is the last time regardless hall much we appreciate how much you have come for our country and the men and women deployed in iraq and so many other places for their service with mccain and carter how we might support the assyrian rebels. But mr. Secretary you said there is an obligation to those to bush of what it should entails. Telling one person. It is better they can never rather than not at all. When . Continuously over two hours and with respect to what were doing but it as i said we have an obligation and decide exactly under what conditions we will make that tactical decision when we introduce them. The main thing is that we increase that number which is very small. I look forward to that. Your strategy in syria is to ruth but for his supporters do give the support support, specifically what rule was the jennets states play to bring about the pressure is support to achieve this kind of settlement . I feel the way that it would look, the outcome weirton evening for is the one where assad and activities involved in syria but the structures of damascus sandarac that remain lower continue on in the inclusive read the third wave that is multis sectarian but we have that solid territory from isil with the project that looks like what we work with baghdad to accomplish on the left. That is the post. To believe that reauthorization use military force to give that authority necessary that may come into conflict with any rebels we may trade . I will be very careful how i answer a legal question would prefer to get back to you. Okay. Mr. Secretary what level of command and control does isis leadership have over these various affiliate groups across the middle east and Northern Africa as well as loan group lone wolf individuals . It is mixed. In the main is a mixture of groups that were already too early already radicalized and by attacking western interest to ruth brown ruth brandon cells of vetting and those who have had no association including americans to go on to the internet to find themselves in thrall to that are in thrall to by the violence a river is associated with isil to self radicalize. To see that spectrum there . You do see some efforts to rename isil to command and control but not exclusively because it is distinctly different from the al qaeda model which was very hierarchical and very clear command and control type of entity. But that meant they had discipline to take on big things like an 11 but also when we go after them they were vulnerable to attacks on command and control structure and isil is more resilient and it takes a different kind of campaign and we are aware that. Also wanted to thank you foreign the people on newer countries but did we have a strategy weekend defend ourselves against telomere then did then we have to go on to protect ourselves but in the meantime what takes the time, just in the nature to give to a lasting results that is where not only as isil defeated but they stayed defeated and in order to do that there has to be somebody on the territory keeping the peace and governing and replacing isil in the territory. That takes time we are working with the kurds but that is the nature of things. We wanted to go as quickly as possible and we hasten that to the best of our ability with other members of the coalition but it takes the time to build day and keep pressure. But your question is really patients increases risk. Than it probably does emended it has a time when of things could happen but. Stood does that increase. How do you reach a decision where you can maintain with there is in russia or the region that is a recruitment item and will inspire a tax had you balance that they yet have the rest . As we say in our homeland homeland, continue what i think or continued to grow because of a possibly overabundance of patients. I will keep that because this is the issue on which the campaign turns. Correct. You have to be assured as to manage risk, were looking at those things that could threaten facilities around the globe and in the home and. Where we see risked occurring. That necessarily requires the degree of patients may need to nurture and reinforcing and to understand in the context of what we try to accomplish not just the middle east but clore but if you say the threat could increase because of this but i would also but then to invite them into iraq because is they know that iran will be there fame but arent we opening the terror of the we have been reaching yeltsins 2004 roughly and they probably have increased their outreach but it has very little to do with what were doing our not doing but the fact that they believe their future and it is their turn and their particular form of governance that is not yet to inclusive as it needs to be, is the right form. So we will do this whether or not. They have boots on the ground in a rapture no action or inaction by the United States. I would say the of pfizers with some other capabilities come i would agree that they have provided that. It was a statement. Yes. The q mr. Chairman. They key for the testimony today. General day mci want to commend you for your decades of service and secretary carter your keeping me updated last week thank you for your outstanding services. There has been a lot of criticism of the president and then at the g7 and and hes had been and what he says the has put it on to your place. Each time. That the department of defense is coming up with options. We have now caught in them yet though. You literally said that of version of that august 2014 and june 2015. Did it take the department of defense one year to come up with a strategy to defeat isis . To make thank you for your conversation with respect to asiapacific strategy. I am grey for that with your travels and your leadership. We just spoke yesterday at the pentagon with the president about his strategy and that is the one that i described to day. By the way and that dozens that involves us as an Important Role but it involves other parts of the government as well