Transcripts For CSPAN2 Key Capitol Hill Hearings 20240622

Between 2005 in 2010 the Judicial Council notes parties recorded 2881 antislap motions in trial court throughout california 81 anti slap motions in trial court throughout california were roughly 481 motions per year. An appeal an appeal was filed in only 375 cases. Put another put another way nearly 90 percent of the cases no appeals while. And that is sort of given that there were about 6. 2 million civil filings and superior courts during that time the 2881 the 2,881 constitutes about i dont know,. 046 percent of all lawsuits. And thats just california. I think thats a good question. I that is for california. We dont know. This bill is a federal bill. We dont know anything about how many of these lawsuits are being filed in other states and federal court. Is. Is a good question to ask for before we pass legislation thats going to circumvent the rules enabling that and also expand the jurisdiction of federal court. How big of a problem is this goahead quakes one thing to keep in mind is that a slap that is filed in court and that is moving forward is generally the last step of the process that were talking about here. It is not that you immediately say you are going to file a slap suit and and file it against the person who wrote a review or made a statement. You generally let it linger and have your attorney basically go through this whole intimidation process to try to get the statement retracted or to get the review removed before you actually has the plaintiff even bother filing in federal court. When you look at that number that number isnt really indicative of the overall threat and the Chilling Effect is having. And in this world that is constantly changing, i find slap very critical to our society. You know, the ability to speak and the ability to speak freely and for individuals to have opinions and to not be threatened and the Chilling Effect which you can imagine taking place fairly quickly unless we come together and say, you know, you are not allowed to threatened to sue me because i wrote about your carpet company. You know those seven individuals probably arent going to be posting many more reviews. So i think that we have an opportunity now to take a look at communication and allow people their opinions. Not only media organizations but individuals. That is that is where i see the import of what were looking at. Also, just to provide a little bit of context because we are having a very good and thoughtful conversation about antislap, slap suits in general and also about the speak free act and the but in regard to the speak free act in particular, while the aha has expressed concerns about the bill there was recently a letter that was sent to congress to the Judiciary Committee that had about 35 different organizations and groups in support, and these are folks like yelp, trip advisor benefits glassdoor. Com, groups such as public knowledge, the center for democracy and technology, the our street institute, freedom works, folks on the left and the right and even the National Association of broadcasters that said that they support the speak free act and that they want the bill to move forward in congress. And even that is specifically in regard to the speak react. On on the issue of federal anti slap legislation there are even more companies and organizations that have said they support the federal anti slap legislation. And even on the state level as well that have been promoting it organizations like the npa going around supporting state anti slap bills in different jurisdictions as well. So when you look at this bill and this issue, it is one that has united groups that traditionally have been on the opposite side of the debate here in congress. I. I want to reiterate that. On the issue of supporting slap legislation, who is in support and who is against many of the state affiliates have supported slap legislation at the state level. I dont think not to say i dont want my testimony to be taken as there is no solution, turn around and go home. The devil is in the details and you are getting into a careful balance of constitutional rights. I think this discussion should have a lot of creative thinking and any solution should be narrowly tailored and carefully crafted to make sure that it affects slap lawsuits and nothing but slap lawsuits. Hi. My name is quinn martin. This question is primarily for kevin. Kevin. On ask you whether you think adopting the english rule the turn of companies for filing a slap lawsuits. Am sure it will be a deterrent, but i also think of that would be perhaps a truly overbroad solution to the problem. I mean, it should be clear now that we do not all agree. We agree on the concept but not the details. One of the differences is that i do not think this is necessarily overbroad. I do not think it goes too far. I am sure there will be instances where people are caught up in a slap situation and the little guy really does lose out even where the anti slap statute exists. Im sure that will happen. It will be unfortunate and i do think that on the whole we would look to preserve freespeech rights with a broad speak free act and thereby protect more people because there have clearly been a number of people that have been subjected to slap suits. You have given one example. We could come back with our own. It goes back to what i said about the balancing. We both agree that there is a balancing that must be done. He balance everyones rights were just on were just on different sides, but i think that adopting fullscale would be too far. I want to chime in quickly. I i want to make sure to get this. In their. It is important, especially in regards what was discussed earlier. You mentioned in texas the church of scientology and then filing an anti slap motion and having it really tied up at the appellate level of discovery. It is my understanding that with the speak free act that there is actually language in the bill as well that if you are the defendant and you frivolously file an anti slap motion that you would still be forced to pay some sort of fee or restitution. That is what i was going to get at. Does allow the judge to impose that. Now i see what you are saying. Would saying. Would you adopt the fact that the losing party pays. And it does exist in the speak react and i do not think it is not that it is always going to be a full attorneys fees or that it will be in every case but it does create that right which is extremely valuable more so as a deterrent and simply saying the case will be accelerated and kicked out more quickly. I think this is a good point. Is it enough to deter true slappers or true people who are abusing the court system. The problem system. The problem is it stirs the david but not the goliath. The goliath has the money to pay sanctions, to pay the other sides attorneys fees. Does not prevent them which is what youre trying to get at. Has a Chilling Effect on david for particularly those that are presenting novel theories under law. There is a time in our country when brown versus board was considered novel and they one. That does not mean that have they lost that they should pay someone elses attorneys fees. I think imposing that kind of english rule on our american system what is it have a significant Chilling Effect. They created a ton of side litigation on the satellite issue. Someone would file a motion and then you immediately file another. In response saying this is frivolous that theyre calling me frivolous. It got out of hand. The federal judges asked congress to change it back to the original american role. I think that is an excellent question. This threat that you have to pay and other attorneys fees is significant but it is significant to the davids, davids, not the goliaths witches who which is it were trying to prevent, the goliath for going after reporters and yelp reviewers from people who really do not have the resources to fight someone on a court of law. Clicks speaking of goliaths, i want to give one more example and i realize are almost out of time. But it helps to go to the heart of why you need federal antislap legislation, and it involves the state of nevada. So nevada for about a year and a half has had a really good anti slap law on the books or had one. And a resident in nevada and hopefully he does not listen to this or hear this because then i will i will have to hire one of you guys steve one, steve when lost a lawsuit, a defamation suit in california on march 4. Dont exactly quote me but i want to say around march 4 based off of an antislap motion. Anti slap motion. He lost it in the state of california. And then about three weeks later around march 2021 in the state of nevada there was a bill introduced in the state legislature to get the antislap law that anti slap law that nevada had have about less than two years. And who was it supported by fully . Who was aback by . It was backed by wayne industries, steve once company. And so this bill was introduced. And in less than three weeks afterwards already passed the nevada state senate. It passed the senate. Over in the nevada house. Companies like yelp and trip advisor and others were scrambling. A lot of those sort of First Amendment freedom of speech groups were scrambling in the state to try to help throw this slow the process. What was otherwise going to be a bill that would got the rights of nevadas speak freely online. And thankfully eventually we were able to work toward a compromise, but still a the core of the law, but it kind of goes to the. Of when you have this when youre talking about goliaths and you have a billionaire casino mogul who literally goes and works to get the law of the state changed in order to protect the interest of people like him this really goes to say that if you can have that much of a fluctuation in regard to legislation that will impact the ability of people to speak freely online and to share their opinions why you need a federal minimum standard command that is what the speak react does. I know we are right at time. I want to re fame it the discussion. And by doing so bring it back to where we started. You talked about in terms of willie attorneys fees be a deterrent from bringing the suit . We will this hurt them . No. That is not the point. The. Is Daniel Snyder saying indeed the cost of litigation will presumably quickly outstrip the asset value. He thinks the city paper will roll over in the face of having to pay litigation fees. Guess what now they dont. If they believe they have a merited case and are going to win and to get their attorneys fees back they are willing to go to court and fight and that is the way you have to look at it, the penalty is not on the person suing for the benefit comes back. The deterrent effect is that you are pushing on them hitting them wont make an impact at all. Thank you. On behalf of behalf of the congressional internet caucus on the Advisory Committee really great discussion. The twitter information is on the programs. Number of organizations have reports floating around about this issue and we encourage you to look into it further and come to our events for the rest of theis really important. Sunday night at 8 00 8 00 eastern and pacific on cspan q a. And newly discovered strain of bird flu has caused a spike in egg prices. The Senate Homeland Security Committee held a hearing on the outbreak and what is being done to avoid a new outbreak this fall. Senator ron johnson chairs this twohour hearing. [inaudible conversations] good morning. This area is called the order. I want to first thank the witnesses for taking the time to come here this morning. The time you have taken to provide very thoughtful and important testimony. This this hearing is really about the recent outbreak of Avian Influenza bird flu that has plagued really primarily the upper midwest although we have a map here. Unfortunately we dont have a chart but it has been sprinkled out west, a little bit further east fortunately it has not gone up and down the eastern seaboard yet, but this is a serious issue. We have a Mission Statement from the committee, to enhance the economic and National Security of the country. This is an economic issue and a serious one. I asked for unanimous consent offer my written Opening Statement for the record. I want to just cover some quick statute because i think we may be interrupted by votes a little later. In terms of how this is going to affect our economy there are 300 million egg laying chickens, over 40 million of them have been affected by this and destroyed. A 13. 3 percent of the egg laying population. 200 million turkeys raised every year. 8 million have had to be euthanized. That is that is estimated to be about a billion dollar impact on to our economy. Fortunately we have not seen a new outbreak its since about midjune. The migratory the migration is over but it will starting in the fall. We are extremely concerned about what will happen when we have the Migratory Bird pattern once again. The purpose of this hearing really is to examine our initial reaction to the outbreak the spring and also ask and really explore what our reactions will be kamal we will further limit damage for additional outbreaks so that i hate i hate to say it pretty probable in the fall including we dont want to alarm anybody but we all heard about bird flu potentially mutating from animals to human beings which is why we have a a pretty good panel here to discuss that and try and minimize the concern but also to provide assurance that we will be monitoring that and do everything we can. We have a real good panel of people from the department of agriculture represented from the centers for disease control, the jail kemal professor from sen. Carpers home state and state and senator carper will introduce professor galpin. We have a victim not a direct victim. You are human, but somebody from the state of wisconsin who lost his entire egg laying flock of 200,000 chickens. Scott snyder is here to describe what he has gone through and his appreciation for the usda and also just the frustrations in terms of getting compensated in a timely manner. That that is part of the hearing. This is an important hearing totally appropriate for this committee. With committee. With that, i will turn it over to the Ranking Member. So far delaware has dodged the bullet and lets hope that remains the case. Not always dodged a bullet. So far we have been lucky. Better to be smart lucky than smart. I want to welcome the gentleman from delaware. I want to thank you and your staff. We look forward to hearing from each of you. You. As some of you in the room now the issue of Avian Influenza is important to our country to all of us. The peninsula which includes parts of delaware, maryland virginia, usually important. We raise more chickens in Sussex County delaware. The Third Largest county in america and we raise more chickens that in any county in america. Big part of the economy. About 80 percent as poultry. So it is hugely important. My hope important. My hope is we come away from this hearing more confident the strength and the importance of americas poultry industry and be better prepared to respond any further outbreaks should they occur. I think some of you know. The poultry know. The poultry industry is an integral part of our National Economy supporting over 1 million jobs nationwide and about 350 billion in 350 billion in total Economic Activity every year. Some of the industry, tied to production which are colleagues know well. Other parts of the industry focus on the kind of chickens we. Marvelous the word on the peninsula. We call the chickens we eat boilers. I boilers. I dont know what you call them where you come from. Some of you know the birthplace of the boiler industry actually comes from Sussex County delaware. A big county that we are proud of. The industry brought to delaware about 3 billion in Economic Activity last year. We export our chickens all over the world. The pacific, Transpacific Trade Partnership attempting to negotiate and probably have a chance to vote up or down pushed to sell chickens and the canada. Pose a 200 percent tariff. Their sacrifices have made a difference seven also like to recognize the Public Health officials for their hard work of the friends and academia and also h. R. Nodded time to rest on laurels or packed ourselves on the back in real need to remain on high alert especially true as they come in from migratory season produce a better opportunity to understand the threats to help us examine the steps people are taking to make sure new cases do not spring up. Also to identify a Lessons Learned. My response as well as breast best practices and especially interested to hear about measures we have taken to further contain the virus we need to Work Together to stop the spread of the Avian Influenza we must act with a sense of urgency with people all over the world to make sure turkeys are safe to eat it is this a matter. Well have experts around the country that dealt with these issues with the laser focus with continued hard work and coordination to solve the problem together. Please raise your right hand. Du promise to tell the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth so help you god . Please be seated. Our first witness dr. Clifford is the chief veterinarian officer with the Plant Health Inspection service to provide leadership for Animal Health nationwide serving at usda since 1987 in a variety of positions. 80 for the opportunity to testify on behalf of the United States department of agriculture. Those founded u. S. Poultry farms have slowed considerably it has been a little over three weeks for iowa and over four weeks for the state of minnesota. Months ago to start the process of repopulate date with poultry Largest Health emergency in our countrys history while Encouraging Development the impact of this outbreak is still felt throughout our industry and training partners have restricted exports and then reemerging in the fall is significant. Our help hearts go out to the producers and employees i ensure u. S. Has the usda fullest attention to get them back on their feet. The leading efforts to assist producers as we look to the fall we look to the challenge so working around the clock on the response. With 180 million in payments to producers to control the spread of the disease to help them recover the usda has committed over 500 million an amount more than half to respond aggressively to the outbreak we can and will request additional funds if we need you to assess that epidemiology in conjunction with partners wild birds brought this to the United States in the 2014 we saw a point source introduction of the we cannot pinpoint a single practice that the epidemiological report to suggest by a security was a factor. For us to think more comprehensively. We have a shared interest to eradicate the disease to get it back on its feet. We met with state officials to ensure we have a highlevel to deal with their reemergence impossible spread in the fall and we encourage partners to review the existing Avian Influenza Response Plans to understand what we expected what actions we will need them to take should the disease strike. The with said depopulation plans for composting of birds. The experience in the midwest shows the biggest roadblock to receive them process dead birds. For our part were hiring more than 450 additional employees including technicians and medical officers also a vaccine strategy should we decide to address the of brick we will have those in place also with increase surveillance radiate to identify a the virus as quickly as possible to stamp it out. But the meeting in des moines iowa will help to insure our collective pile security is more stringent than we are as prepared as we can be for the fall. Thanks for their cooperation in this process their efforts are appreciated to help us plan for the fall. This concludes my testimony. At our next witness is currently the director for periodization and respiratory diseases with the cdc a position they have held since 2005 she is says insistent in the Public Health service then joined the cdc in 1980 as an Epidemic Intelligence Services officer. I am here to discuss the of impact from the influenza outbreak and the cdc actions to prepare for human infections it is a formidable adversary the virus in each case represents the potential for a bit timid. Strong collaboration with domestic and International Partnerships are critical to identify and monetary and respond to viruses of concern by the aba and influenza virus currently circulating cdc continues to assess the risk of these viruses for the general public as low however people with close or prolonged contact with infected birds are likely at greater risk of infection this includes poultry workers of those responding to the current outbreak. Although there are no reported cases to date cdc is taking action to insure we have the systems and tools in place to protect Public Health have guidance for testing and treatment and Worker Protection and dingy gray be posted guidance on testing for those who may be infected. And posted guidance for those exposed to those viruses and hhs amended the antiviral drug to be available for use in response to the current domestic outbreak. Riposted Worker Protection with the use of personal protective equipment and we recommend pp for those in direct contact going into buildings with a sick or dead bird species or litter from infected poultry. Recommended ppe is properly fitted safety goggles goggles, disposable gloves and boots and inappropriate respirator as well as disposable flew with resisted coveralls we have protocol in place in the event of a suspected case. State Health Departments are asked to investigate potential human cases and notify us within 24 hours of identifying a person under investigation. For monitoring the health of workers for signs and symptoms that occur within 10 days of their last exposure. Also with the Public Health labs using the kits that we develop and distribute to carry out genetic analysis which do not show any markers previously associated with increased severity. We have ongoing studies in animals including my san ferrets to evaluate the severity of these viruses. Seasonal flu vaccines dont protect against Avian Influenza so should a back seat become necessary. A collaboration between the cdc and the usda is critical during the current outbreak we have coordinated messaging and collaboration i of the analysis of the vaccine virus and the cdc expert with the usda incident command unit for this response. Want to emphasize the importance of collaboration and our Strong Partner network from threats with the strong of capacity at the federal, state, and local level our investment a survey listing communication and prepared this helps to protect future outbreaks with strong collaboration rePublic Health with the Health System and the Global Partnership to protect from Infectious Disease we were with said who to strengthen global capacity to perform lab testing to respond to the pandemic it more rapid detection bolster the nation is prepared this the Current Situation has enormous impact on farmers and agricultural communities. But fortunately it has not yet led to human infections this is just one challenge opposes to our economy we must continue the effort to prevent the consequence is that these pros here and around the world. Thank you. We have the director from the gao to leave the light wave Emergency Management National Preparedness with protection issues accompanied by the gao researchers from those issues. Thankyou other members of the committee we appreciate the opportunity to testify they give for the introduction and i handle national prepared this issues and to be safety for agriculture true answer any questions that i can have a bite to discuss some recommendations but with the bio defense work as it pertains to the outbreak of highly pathogenic a beautiful when said in the midwest will we have 95 rated their response to the current outbreak but we plan to use this year. We have reported on efforts to such outbreaks we also have reported that the highest level with the surveillance and defense efforts all the way down to specific efforts like food and agriculture. It is important to note it is a huge and complex effort with Cooperation Among different federal agencies government and private sector of our work has shown preparing for emergencies whether Natural Disaster or a tax requires careful planning to better know who is responsible for doing what and how we will coordinate and what resources we need. One key area is bio surveillance at the federal, state, and local level. That is a collection and analysis and interpretation of data for humans and animals in the Agriculture Sector is a challenge because it requires working across the ridges department of health and Human Services all have a separate mission and authority but have common goals to respond to the outbreaks it is so important because they dictate the actions taken in the event of a real emergency for example, we found there was no National Strategy or a focal point lead to develop a surveillance capabilities recommended the Homeland Security council developed a strategy to designate a full point they issued a strategy however that hedges not yet identified the investment needs and priorities which is an element we thought was critical to prioritize resources such as bio surveillance. Drilling down the findings are very similar the president issued Common Security directive number nine to better coordinate the responsibilities and efforts of food surveillance the homeless and Security Department is responsible for coordinating efforts across all federal agencies like hhs however well and has made some effort has not filled that role fully and in addition it has undeveloped a departmentalized strategy for all requirements we recommended that they do so and they said they intended to that has stalled the effort so far. So we reported to prepare to the outbreak to what we are facing now to make several recommendations in the recommended to identify that capabilities they would need with federal state entities to respond to the al grey can develop a Response Plan to identify responsibilities and resource needs the states develop their own Response Plan and conduct exercises to test these Response Plans no day implemented all of these now they are being tested during a real life outbreak with some challenges such as the disposal issue so we will monitor these efforts and look at this specific response later this year this concludes my prepared remarks. I think we will have senator curve for introduce the next witness. With Research Activities to participate in international of reach tuesday that efforts a poultry industry and why aid expert joined today by his wife of 35 years joined by the 11 children and 37 grandchildren and the audience. [laughter] part of that is true. [laughter] but when asked why a passage to help the family they said we eat a lot of chicken. [laughter] is a good thing we dont swear you with. [laughter] never let the truth get in the way of a good story. It is the great pleasure and an honor to be with you today. So the region that includes the Eastern Shore counties of maryland and virginia experienced the outbreak firsthand 2004 we were very very fortunate to have a successful outcome because of the various planning and rapid implementation of the regional Response Plan by a command system. Were very fortunate to have many outstanding experts in the Poultry Health field again within academia i want to emphasize within the Poultry Companies we are blessed to have those individuals work handinhand with us with members of the state in the federal government but only three farmers were positive in the incident which is remarkable given the high density of poultry and farms in the region the al, it those of cancer and other fatal diseases are time dependent and recognition is critical but of my cancer the situation is a bit more complex because that fibrous is highly contagious and it will multiplied to an enormous concentrations it poultry and spread through the air and through the movement of infected poultry , human carriers and contaminated Farm Equipment. All Farm Equipment procedures must stop immediately and they busted the vial security plan part of the emergency plan new york infected fox must be depopulated within 24 hours following the identification of the virus this is important to end animal suffering and to stop the shed of the virus into the environment that poses a significant threat in transmission there are several areas i went into more detail what we to boca for the future but i will briefly refer to them here to develop and implement by a security programs to help farmers to to respond and buy a security is the term that describes every day and the emergency deceases to prevent and control disease and probably the single greatest weapon that we have against Avian Influenza but unfortunately by a security is not consistently applied by all for farmers and Poultry Companies three also need to a few aspects of the current emergency Response Plan to respond more quickly and more rapidly to read incident and we can get into that later. Number three provide an Insurance Program for poultry farmers who contractors Poultry Companies to mention indemnifications paid it is very important by for farmers who were contract farmers they may or may not received the indemnification so there is a need for a new program. And there are discussions under way and we should look into this area seriously. Vaccination requires careful consideration and it was mentioned and earlier about developing vaccines and now i talk more specifically for poultry but there are limitations they have limited efficacy even under the best conditions we need more research to make them more effective than the vaccination is the slippery slope and we need to determine whether or not we will go down this road with the effect on trade and the fact that they are effective can push the of virus lastly there is a growing body of evidence that terrestrial wild birds may play a role and the transmission of Avian Influenza of reno waterfalls are the Main Reservoir where it resides on a longterm basis and we have heard earlier they are the primary source we have known this for years so why are these birds port important that they do support by rivers replication the cages carry the virus many times you will cfa insurer us bear in the poultry house of the toothache the senators for their kind invitation to be here today also Robert Bradley to reach out to me about this opportunity. Thank you. End it is unfortunate we have Scott Schneider here because you lost your flock block if youre losing money in the process the order of nature link forms unfortunately to of hundred thousand chicken farm was the first one hit that then ravaged others across the midwest were glad you could come here to provide testimony sperry chairman a Ranking Member and members of the committee thank you for inviting me to discuss the impact of highly pathogenic by and poultry producers i appreciate the opportunity to be a part of a comprehensive solution to recur for from the future spread of the diseases of the current outbreak for, a flock of 200,000 to more than produce a product it said my family and paid my bills and enabled me to help my employees pay their bills and we have always played by the rules to ensure pristine conditions for members and employees and i have done my part to keep the industry competitive but as producers know all too well strictly following regulations does not protect against a i my flock has been reduced to zero in face of the outbreak my shortterm prospects are grim middle and long term are challenging especially with future threats although containing a vial security efforts are admirable survival of my family farm depends upon meaningful protection against future outbreaks it will cost a minimum of 500,000 in revenue before the year is over that is a sizable blow for any operational most imaginable for a small producer such as myself my farm will be completely out of production for least four months to generate no new revenue no calling for a gradual depopulation i will build a back toward the pre infection best case i and facing an eight months with zero or heavily reduced revenue and surviving with life savings. In addition to the direct loss of revenue refunding payments for some of the cost for containment efforts until the usda is able to reimburse me of course, my farm is one of the many operations devastated today more than 48 million birds have been affected in 20 different states ai has killed more birds than any other at this point the current outbreak has set in the tory back by more than a decade prior to the current outbreak there ruth 300,000,008 laying hens over the past six months about 35 million have been lost mhz american aid supplies driving up prices as indicated by a 4. 1 reduction for 2015 it has led to the importation of shell eggs from europe an extreme situation that seldom is seated never industry consumers are also hurt to seasickness increases with dry and liquid aids it is of 70 for the prices in u. S. Consumers could pay 8 billion more to buy a switches an increase of 75 from last year the importance of the response efforts cannot be overstated no word can my gratitude of the partners thus far their resources baja are integral but the teams that i have worked with are highly professional and courteous than they have the best intentions with a true desire to help and i appreciate that very much. Despite progress the sheer bureaucracy doing business with the government that do not act with government bodies every day i do not have administrative staff to keep up with the workplace and san Compliance Agreements and a rotating staff inherited a recovery process. It is frustrating and training. But we must push on to work within the framework established for the benefit of those like me in the landscape a Response Plan of true eradication must be comprehensive. Via security are indispensable parts of the plan but not enough. We need to stop the aim the fact the usda is considering the use of a vaccine it is encouraging. For producers like we it is difficult to imagine investing time and money to repopulate the flock without the availability of the effective vaccine. This is made even more true in the face of bird migration which prince to reintroduce of. Over the country without the targeted safe vaccine the path forward is far from clear. I am proud to be an american aid producer and an industry to see thousands of jobs if there is one message that the threat of ai can take that away in one fell swoop they give for your time and the opportunity to talk with you today. Thank you for your testimony. Sorry for your loss. But you share my perspective with the federal work force do dedicate that is the good thing of frustrated by the problems you encounter what they try to follow. You are a contract producer . You run the operation. When we met yesterday you described the indemnification rasas the actual chicken and owners it took for six weeks . But there is no Business Interruption you cannot buy this of the open market to have this indemnification . There is the problem through operational losses as well as trying to recover to read make your farm. Can you describe coming to have spent and a juror frustration . This situation i run into is that will be fronting close to 150,000 with the population and clean up before i can repopulate for good is difficult to come up with that type of cash when it comes to the format usda will require to identify which are recoverable for the end every day i become more concerned some of those may be forgotten or not covered than that is more money on top of what i am losing. So your operation comedy venues start generating revenue anytime soon or nothing . When mr. To repopulate it is incremental and then we will add the flocks about 35,000 every month. You buy those as a delaying chickens right off the bat . Correct. You will start generating revenue. Direct. Dr. Clifford with the Insurance Market onsite or research to the adobe gore to. To me this is a Pretty Simple claim to adjudicate the chickens. It is federal law they have to be destroyed in the indemnification that we verify it is ai and chickens are destroyed i know why the government coated check the odors of the chickens why does that take between four and six weeks . With regard to indemnification we can do that within one week or less but what we require is a flock plan to be signed with co pay indemnity and tell then it is the strategy and plan for that location specific to that location with regards to buy a security to ensure we do as much as they can to prevent real infection if there is no oh flock plan and they are reinfected we will do not we will not pay that a second time so there are things that we can do together to make that a lot quicker process my heart goes out to scott some of these are complex so one thing we do is decide one person to that facility to help them get through these. Tel long did it take usda to inspect the flock . Usda needs to wait until the presumptive positive is confirmed by the laboratory and i was before they can do anything. So maybe it was sought thursday and saturday evening it was confirmed by the National Laboratory in ames, iowa dead on that monday we had people. How was the flock destroyed . Cusack chickens dying. They die quickly. And then they destroyed the clock the following thursday or friday. You said that process should be 24 hours that is the big gap there is a fair amount of continuous improvement. Their goal of 48 hours. And that is an important one is the process the presumptive positive made by a local or Regional Laboratory is that mouthful the highly regarded member system can based out of a messiah lot. The confirmation must come from the National Laboratory in ames before it is a done deal. So if they restructure the process sometimes they have to incubate if you could design a structure what is the best case with their current structure to redesign . Once they are submitted with the molecular test to be completed within three hours and then to be said to this central lab for testing at the local it is presumptive but to be sent by overnight delivery may be another 24 hours before they could take action in terms of initiating flock population. So how often do you have that initial resolve . Are there other instances . Could we rely on the initial results like a flock of chickens . These are basically laboratories that many times accredited laboratories with high quality staff proclaimed giving you a little more background for those who run the molecular test have a the proficiency panels from usda talk about highly qualified laboratories. So the point is we could improve the model to destroy that flock of chickens within your guidelines over 70s the likelihood that they will not be contained. There is a real top priority i have plenty of their questions but i will turn it over. Colleagues are coming and going we serve on four or five committees and there are other hearings going on as well. Senator tester has asked for my time and i will yield to him. I appreciate that. Dr. Clifford is there a vaccine . And how costeffective is said . If i may, there is not know well matched back Seat Available so we are working on them for the fall but usually with the cost of the vaccine. So were still researching . There is work and going that we will have those by the fall. They give for raising cage three chickens i am also involved of agriculture of a different kind but i want to figure out where were going with grains read by insurance is is part of the Disaster Program for with the usda . That is important to earn no. We by and share with is heavily subsidized. So what can you do to be sure will not come back . Directory have to follow the protocols to clean and depopulate and disinfect. Are there other elements . Then you are required that 21 day rest period that you do sampling that they do testing. You are in the middle of the process . And you destroy the chickens or usda . It is reimbursable expense. But you actually do the job . It depends if there is the contract or we can as the farm. We assisted the contract it company. To talk about foot and mouth disease how serious is that . It is very serious. But we are free of foot and mouth. Case of a true open up brazil and uruguay and argentina they are not flipped and mouth free countries. Do you talk before you open trade with other countries that have a highly contagious disease . Did you talk to his office . No. Okay. Why would i talk to his office about disease mitigation . Theyre not better in areas we do risk assessment. That is fine. My brother is a veterinarian so dont take this person of. But the fact is that why did reopen trade with countries that have fled to and mouth disease . Because of vaccination they have not had an active outbreak for years. Did regions. All of them in the entire country there has not been a verified case of foot and mouth disease in south america over two years period why is your grey not considered certified . Because they still vaccinate. You can ship boneless beef safely if you vaccinates and you are free and we have been doing that for years we didnt from argentina years before they had the additional case. Go the other direction. So if we had foot and mouth that would not hurt the export business . Of course, a wide. Weve base trayvon Risk Mitigation we dont vaccinate for foot and mouth disease nor will we unless we get it. But they faxon they routinely to make sure they dont have it. What do these days north america will probably be the first continent free of foot and mouth disease over the next 54 ted years. My concern is that it stays that way but i am thinking you leave will be in better shape. But that is not correct. I said boldest beef. From areas of the world that have fled and mouth. Here is my concern. You are the doctor. I just raised them but what happens if we get that in this country . It would have the effects of the experts exports you believe transferring that is zero . I said it is extremely low risk. 10 . A lot lower than that. Less than 1 . As close to zero as you can without saying zeros. Perfect. Thank you very rich. Thank you chairman johnson and their Ranking Member to the Witnesses Today and i as we met in the air for Cultural Committee today discuss the issues we do want to recognize someone today a good to join you today. Iowa was hit extremely hard. We have a little map period and you cannot see iowa to well because of the of the millions and millions of birds effective in destroyed twothirds were from iowa. Sold poultry and turkey have been affected quite heavily is a big concern for a number of months and the Economic Impact to i a weld will be about 1 billion. Very significant. So i sympathize with you as a number of a producers have gone through the exact savings. It is not only devastating for the producers but their employees and the communities that are supported by these producers thank you for being here today. Dr. Clifford i would like to visit about the vaccination and process. Is the usda working on that process . If you could explain where we are with that. Groups will support that and some will not relent to insure we are working with trade partners as well that would be helpful. What were doing is developing a vaccine bank to go out to Ask Companies to bid indri have several better in process to develop vaccines and we believe we will have of vaccine Bank Available this fall may be late fall depending on the companys ability to get that manufactured. A tool in the toolbox that we really need to have if we decided is the right thing to do any particular situation so working on the protocol to our training partners to encourage them with these conditions to not shut off trade in and if we are successful that will help us to utilize the tool because right now if we use that they will shut us off potentially we will lose threeyear 4 billion additionally in trade. Not a partial shot off but the entire country. That is why we have the turkeys production you want to use those and you want to use those layers or the cage free birds parker you have the groups that dont want to use it because of the impacts of retry to balance all of this getting our training partners to support the use of a limited way where it makes sense a an example would be the turkey flocked in minnesota that has a close proximity to a lot of lake said potential waterfall. I appreciate that. And doctor, you had mentioned therein is the Indemnity Fund but some are not seeing the funds flowing in their direction and so do you know, of a mechanism we could follow those dollars . We want to make sure if the growers are entitled to a portion of the indemnity payment that they are receiving that. Is there a mechanism to ring gauge for followup . A little bit out of my area but working with the latest local trade association, speaking with the director i think he would be of better resource but for contract growers there are many contract growers in this country where they provided that he than ventilation and the facilities to grow them but the birds themselves belonged to a paltry company and then the indemnity goes to the company some will then share the fun to with the contract growers so it is a contract grower issue in the manchin and the interest and current proceedings thinking about moving forward with the Insurance Program that they could purchase where the fund would go directly to them rather than the company. You break up an excellent question and i am not sure i am the best to redress that. Thank you for raising the issue. And mr. Currie works with Emergency Management perhaps as we discussed the idea was it did have plans in place. Have a number of places but even the best laid plans, we had an uprising that said how do we know our birds are not hit by the virus . It was the great concern with the people of iowa that we are not affecting additional forms out there. Even the best laid plans may not go as intended the thank you for being here today. Senator peters . Thank you for your testimony this is a an issue that is somewhat frightening to head the poultry industry so quickly as so many die to have a massive impact on a production and with other producer as well and how the by threats are so a significant and michigan became the trustee for state to confirm a case recently i believe some peace is where it showed up bin where it started. But that is my question how closely are you working with fish and Wildlife Service or in the wild bird to impacting the farming sector do work with them . What are you doing . We do. We work directly with the Wildlife Services division leads the effort to work directly with the state department of National Resources and fish and wildlife and other entities regarding wild bird surveillance we have been doing battle longtime. We began doing more jeeringly the occurrence of years ago in a shell when it was a human health issue and we increased surveillance. That became less of a concern we did a lot of testing and monitoring. Then we reduce the level of monitoring because of a the threat so we have increased that and we have plans out there available that includes fish and wildlife and Wildlife Services to go across all four flyways to take examples up north in the Bering Strait area to see what is happening right now today. This virus really doesnt care. The more you have no location the more virus production the wider spread can occur. But occur. But we need to be thinking about in the way of security and why this is different than what it has been prior this is the first time in north america we have had a high pack virus travel teefive wild birds to north america, the first time, and it is because it has adapted itself to these dabbling ducks and is moved across the Bering Strait. It never happened it never happened before. Low path may be, not high path. So what is different now is we at least have to consider bio security where was fine and well and good for what we were dealing with prior to this we must not consider to me after more importantly the density of farms does facilitate the potential for rapid transmission. We are dealing with a contagious virus. We are dealing with a situation where the ventilation fans that are used to maintain the proper environment of the chickens are turned on. Material dust, other material that is coming out of the air will have virus which will travel to some degree. Degree. Not miles and miles but in delaware we might have for five farms and each of those might have 60 to 80000 chickens. They are all contract growers and they are with four different integrated operations. So you have a situation as doctor clifford indicated where you may have these very large single farms layer operations. In other areas of the country you have independent facilities that is essentially the same thing. The travel on office different, when birds are taken to market they are caught, put in cages trucks take them to what we call processing plants or slaughterhouses. They may go by 15 different other farms in the dust and feathers are coming from these live haul trucks. A lot of complexities that we need to think through. That is why and delaware we concerned is not the right word thinking about what might happen. Doctor, a quick clarification. There may be 56 Poultry Companies but there are a lot of locations all right . Sure. There are 20 states we would consider to be major poultry producing states. Were not talking about 56 locations. We are talking about thousands of locations. Correct, correct, but there are areas with higher concentration and others. Got you. Senator. Thank you, mr. Chairman. This years outbreak has had a a deeper impact as i am sure you have talked about. The outbreak has wreaked havoc on farms where producers have faced the devastating reality of sick and dying birds. I am so pleased that we were able to be joined today by mr. Schneider of wisconsin to share his story of his farm and his livelihood. The impact, as we discussed is really brought on farmworkers individuals working at processing and packing plants whose jobs depend on those lines running as well as on the broader Farm Community which depends upon demand for grain, supply, and services. This avian flu crisis is also a community crisis. Wisconsin is proud to play a role as host to Research Labs that are laser focused on the key questions in front of us questions about how the virus mutates howard is harvard and wild birds as well as diagnostic labs that help us track it spread and track viral strains as they emerge. Dr. Clifford, producers in my state have relied upon the tireless work that you do and your team has put in lots of time and energy into addressing this crisis over the past many months. I want to thank you for your of Research Labs responding to this virus spanned several different federal agencies and are supported also by state labs. Madison wisconsin is home to the Usgs National Wildlife Health center and conducts research to determine which wild bird species might carry and spread various viral strains. I want to just note parenthetically that i am quite concerned the labs aging infrastructure is not allowing it to fully perform as needed during this crisis and it is something i have paid great attention to. Dr. Clifford, as you know, this Wildlife Health center conducts research that supports the Industry Focused Research and i am wondering if you could share general comments about the importance of interagency collaboration and Research Investment and coordination on this crisis . I think interagency, a cross agency across across state and industry, the collaboration is extremely important. That was well stated earlier by the testimony of chris curry with regard to the importance of collaboration. We actually collaborate on an ongoing basis with cdc. We work closely with usgs. We work closely with the department of interior as a whole. The money and funding we provide for wild bird surveillance, some of that would get to help support the testing that usgs and others would be doing and collection and testing of samples. We have we work with customs and border patrol, dhs fda. A whole host of food Safety Inspection services. We have an internal mac group within the department of agriculture across all agencies to help address this issue as well as the state agency. It is critically important. Every piece of this is the mine feels there are issues with epa, issues with transportation, issues with a lot of these things. They must be coordinated. There could be issues with availability of water. What we use what we use for depopulation of birds requires water source for farming. You would not think you would want of water, but certainly and small rural areas you very well may not have an effective water source. You cannot take it out of the lake because it has to be filtered water otherwise it shuts down your machines. You have to have carbon sources for composting and things. So so this really is a massive effort that requires coordination. Thank you. Also on the issue of research the university of wisconsin hosts a large team of researchers studying pathogens that endangers human, animal, and plant health. We have pioneers in developing Research Efforts that could potentially help us understand or treat Avian Influenza viruses. However, some of these efforts have been put on hold by a federal pause on gain of function research. This continued research pause is delaying the potential benefits of studying viruses, including research that could protect human, animal, and economic health. When when does the cdc plan to issue final guidance on this research to be able to end the pause . I will need to get back with you with the specifics on that. What i would like to say is that the Public Safety is really important, and public support for research is important. And we take seriously the need to make sure the scientific experiments being done are done in the safest possible way. Influenza Virus Research is critical to make sure that we have safe treatment and effective vaccine and get ahead of viruses before we get the kind of problem we are seeing right now but the avian outbreak. And i know that across government with nih, cdc, fda, the question of the moratorium is important and we can get back with you with the specifics of timing. I would appreciate that. Doctor clifford, i understand the state veterinarians are considering restrictions on the movement of birds and poultry separate from guidance by the usda. I know that i know that i have heard from farmers in my state to have contract to deliver birds across state lines. We all share the common goal of containing and eradicating this viral outbreak. But our but our producers as you have heard, as you know her face a substantial economic strain. These uncertainties, of course, make things even more difficult to conduct business when it is safe to do so. So i am asking doctor clifford, what steps is the usda taking to ensure that quarantine shipping practices are safe and effective while also facilitating these contracts in ongoing commerce . Thank you sen. So within our approach we have what we call an infected zone and a control zone. The control zone is around an infected flock that goes out 10 kilometers. Products that are negative are tested regularly. Nothing can move out of those zones unless we permit the product to move. And there is regular testing requirements for those products within that to be able to be safely moved in and out of those zones. That occurs ongoing. We issued thousands of permits out of those zones to allow safe movement. We share that. We have weekly calls with the industry and state and explain these things to them they know how it is happening. Some states have taken additional action because of concern for because of the live Bird Marketing systems. Some of those have caused issues. We intervene on behalf of states such as wisconsin, iowa, minnesota to try to help facilitate the movement of birds and the states and we do the best that we can. As you know, the states do have often times rights to go above and beyond our requirements. We try to we try to work through that with the industry. Senator harper. Thank you. Great hearing and appreciate you being here. I want to come back and revisit the issue. We have had a crop Insurance Program for a long time. It is a shared partnership which helps subsidize. We changed the fund. It would cover as im sure mr. Clifford remembers fruits and vegetables of farmers want to participate. My colleague from delaware included in the bill the call for maybe trying a Demonstration Program with respect to insurance for poultry growers and other livestock growers. That was in the bill. And i dont know if we have had enough time to get it up and running. Is this. Is that something you are familiar with . Sen. Come i am aware of the discussion, but i am not involved in the specifics. That is outside of my range. Out just ask you for the record. Maybe some of your colleagues can give us an update. And our experience with contract growers and boilers if there is an Avian Influenza outbreak the chickens are owned by the integrators, Companies Like that. The contractors they are indemnified as far as i know as mr. Snyder said, there is cost to bear. I want to go back to something. Ill bounce it over. You mentioned gracious in your comments about the support you gotten from the federal government cant department of agriculture and others. You others. You indicated there is a lot of bureaucracy and red tape that can be frustrating and timeconsuming. There is an effort to try to identify one person. Is that something you are actually doing . One designated person so that you dont call a call center. Do we have that effect . It is actually an effect, but not in the way we wanted to be. That is right now it is one person. Because person. Because of our rotations of personnel in and out of those areas because most of these people come from different parts of the us command we have them on a three or four week that they can go home clicks it would be great if we could figure out right now it is a three or four week turnaround. What we are doing is assigning a a Single Person that will stay with that producer. One of my favorite sayings, if it isnt perfect make it better. You have a good idea better. I i would like to ask a question about Lessons Learned. Doctor clifford. I want to ask, can you take a minute. I have been called worse. Im sure. But the three of you just take a minute and share with us one key lesson that you have learned so far from this outbreak that can better prepare us for further infections should they occur. Sen. , thank you. I have not have not had direct experiences in this current outbreak. We have had some people from experts from the university of delaware travel and participate in depopulation efforts because that happens to be one of our strengths. We help. We helped develop that years ago. I get stories and reports from other individuals. I really feel that bio security is a key issue. That has been repeated several times, an area that bio security is not sexy. It is not something that easily accomplished. It is a challenge and sometimes you dont see results. Certainly we know it is not the entire answer as mr. Schneider indicated. You can do bio security almost everything right and sometimes maybe its an act of god. You have the introduction of the virus. I still think i still think bio security is a really key weapon in this process clicks thanks. Dr. Clifford clicks sen. If i may expand on that, i would that, i would like to hit a few. Do it quickly. First and foremost, the questions foremost, the questions that senator johnson and the chairman was asking earlier about the timeframe of depopulation do to positive testing at our National Veterinary services lab we have already implemented plans quite a while ago to base the depopulation of those birds based on presumptive positives by the non laboratory. We dont require confirmation anymore. That that is one Lesson Learned and one action we have taken. In in addition one of the things looking at his clinical signs we already have virus in the area. On the area of disposal made state and local plans in place that we know will work bio security is based upon new bio security for mayor filtration systems, air handling systems have to have some type filtration to reduce the amount of dust and potential for virus particle standard through the ventilation system itself. Those are just some. Just briefly, one briefly, one good take away the one Lesson Learned. In addition to all of the bio security efforts i suggest that the increase of funding for Agricultural Research service to identify areas that those specific bio security protocols need to be implemented to help us prevent this happening again would be a wonderful place to start. Good. My time has expired. Clicks thank you. Clicks very quickly, i want to get into the insurance, the emergency funding. Is there a program in place to indemnify mr. Schneider as an operator . There is a program in place that pays right now for the owner of the birds. So if mr. Schneider is a contract grower will we have been doing is working with the companies to make sure that payments to go to the contract growers or contract razors. That is something you try and do working with the law that does not contemplate indemnifying the operator clicks actually will we did quite a few years ago it is part of our regulation that requires the contract growers to be paid. The problem is with this particular hike path that particular regulation is written in to the aai rules below path not path, not my path. We paid the owner of the birds. Correct. Mr. Schneider, you got a problem. We need to work with the Ranking Member to figure out what we need to do to address that because demonstrating for the operator, humanely agreement between the owner versus the operator. That is something that needs to be addressed. Doctor clifford you talked about personnel rotation. How rotation. How many usda offices do we have around the country . Clicks Veterinary Services offices are usda offices . You could have a qualified personnel to respond to this. I am this. I am surprised were rotating personnel versus just having we dont have that many trained people to do this. You are talking you are talking about Animal Health technicians and veterinary medical officers. Ive got about 1800 people to serve and Veterinary Services. Im not talking about any usda person. If youre talking about a. Person to manage a case he really needs someone skilled in management not necessarily in the hard science. When theyre working with them and help them develop a flock plan and the Compliance Agreement they not only need to understand the red tape but the science. Again, that could be an interesting discussion. The the purpose is to coordinate an effort with one point person that an owner or operator is dealing with. Train and managing and coordinating the different expertise is. Let me move on. The virus and potential vaccinations. How robust is the flu virus . How long can it survive . Is this virus going to last days, weeks, months . Pretty fragile. The virus wont last that long. The Colder Weather and drier weather permits. Its favorable. Right now were in a quiet time. Talking days . Clicks the issue is to make sure that you have reached everything and it is not going back clicks in terms of the vaccine, concerned about trade, i think swiping genes with other influential viruses. Two of the three h5 strains we are dealing with our these reassortment, high pathogenic h5 Avian Influenza from eurasia that swapped out parts of his jeans with a low pathogenic Avian Influenza that we had here in the us already. So the virus is just constantly changing which makes Vaccine Development difficult. The vaccines the vaccines that we have for humans as well as animals are not as highly effective as the other vaccines, and the virus could mutate away from or escape from the vaccines. There are a lot of balance about the avian vaccines in the Human Vaccines. We do work to prepare vaccine viruses and have stockpiled vaccine against the original age five strains were major those are really preparing for pandemic readiness rather than what we are using every day. I was expecting a miracle. Only going to be a certain percentage effected to begin with. Plus we have a real real problem with vaccine production, do we not . We have a hard time producing enough vaccine sometimes for humans. If we start trying to vaccinate 300,000 chickens with 300 million chickens to leave even have even close to capacity . Ramp it up quickly enough . Let me answer about the Human Vaccine and let doctor clifford respond about avian vaccine. An enormous amount. An 80 percent increase. The plastic as plastic as well as a much stronger infrastructure. But the animal vaccine production works differently the Human Vaccine. This is important. We had a had a pretty robust vaccine production capability. It just was not an attractive business to be in. Drug manufacturers exit of the business. We have Government Intervention to try and boost production. In case of a pandemic or in reaction outbreaks. Thats right. There has right. There has been a lot of Us Government investment in stimulating the vaccine industry both for influenza vaccine and actually for routine vaccine we have a very strong a very strong publicprivate partnership. Vaccine companies are making pretty good profits. I want to go back to some of the root causes why we did not have the amount of capacity we needed. Needed. It wasnt an attractive business. People being sued and just exited the business. It was less the suit on the issue of profitability. When you are producing drugs people take medicines for their whole life. Successful vaccines you need a couple doses of. The market was not that favorable. Things have changed a bit and we are in much better shape. The manufacturing capacity different . We work with the companys year. I am not concerned about capacity. It is more economics with the companies knowing that we would use the vaccine. If it is still the same production technique. By and large. There are new techniques being used as well that can speed the production development. More capacity available for animal vaccines. Why do we have so much more capacity . I really cant say. We have a lot of companies that are both domestic and international. If they dont have the capacity here they can have approved products. If it cannot be produced here it can be produced somewhere else. The capacities there. A quick question. You will have aga allotted on this. How do you think usda will fare . I realize it is unfair. I have had my facility audited. I think they will find good things and i think i think they will find areas that we need to improve on. You will oftentimes find the situation. Some of the Lessons Learned while we are probably are taking them and working with the industry and state. Do you think you will see improvement . Have already learned from lessons . I think we know we should report on the potential response to an outbreak like this. A number of recommendations the touched on almost to a t the challenges we are facing i dont know i dont know if any of us expected it to be this big and bad. Usda address those recommendations. They are being tested now. In any emergency there will be challenges and Lessons Learned and things we did not expect that we will have to study. There has been a good reaction to prior reports. Hopefully never perfect always room for improvement. Thank you so much. We talked about this a couple of times. How do we mitigate . Only have a fund that goes down a lot of times a country around the world will just say there going to take any of our chickens the useful vaccinate defend vaccinations. To what extent is that impair . Some countries just dont want to have animals imported in the country. Vaccinated. How can we mitigate the impact of vaccine related export bans that are imposed on the us . One of the ways to do that is to have the plans available to share with certain countries so that they can see them firsthand how we would use it. They would have the knowledge that we are not just going to rely on vaccine. There would be an indie game so you dont continue to use vaccine because as already stated the virus mutates. Vaccines do not remain effective. So other countries, if you use a lot of vaccine they will see that is a weakness to control or eradicate. Eradicate. They have to understand were using it only as a tool. If we can convince them to do that that would be your first step but if i may expand to senator testers questions earlier. He asked a lot of questions. The same thing. We would take no action to put industry of risk. We care about the mission and about american agriculture would not do that. The fact is there is a lot of concern about the use of vaccine in a country that is free of fmd with vaccination as the same thing with high path ai. We cannot ai. We cannot go around the world and say one thing no one country because of our position and do Something Different to somebody else. Thanks clicks thank you, sir. This is not our first rodeo. When it when it comes to Avian Influenza this is not our first rodeo this year. We have seen this a lot more than we want to. One of the things we try to focus on on not dealing with symptoms of problem causes just talk to us about causes. Is