Transcripts For CSPAN2 In Depth Lynne Olson 20171010

History up to that point and poland was, had a, sizable army. Small air force, small navy. It was basically a poor country. It didnt have the sense and financial wherewithal germany did. They thought they could hold off germany at least for a while but germans rolled over them. Cspan you say it wasnt a surprise. The date was maybe a surprise but was the rest of europe preparing for war at this point . Guest they expected war was coming. Most European Countries hoped it wouldnt happen. Half the European Countries were neutral. They declared neutrality. Some prepared for war to a certain extent but none of them were really ready for what was about to happen to them. They hoped somehow something would happen to prevent germany from embarking on what, you know, hitler had been really preparing for a number of years. So they were basically keeping their fingered crossed. Obviously that didnt work. Cspan why werent they prepared . If they were aware of what hitler wanted . Part of the reason, you have to remember, 1939, was only 20 years after the end of world war i which was the greatest bloodbath in history up to that point. Many of those countries in europe had lost hundreds of thousands, if not millions of people including the two biggest western allies. France and uk, england. And so they were not prepared in any way, i mean they didnt want war. Nally, financially emotionally, financially, going through another cataclysm like that was anathema to them. There was essentially appeasement from the time world war i ended until world war ii broke out. All those countries really desperately wanted to keep war at bay. Most of them were readily to do whatever it took it didnt happen again. Cspan lynne olson, you talked about half the countries being neutral. Guest guest yes. Cspan what were some of those countries . Guest netherlands holland, norway, luxembourg. France and britain wanted to be neutral. They were basically pushed into an alliance. They started preparing for war in 37, 38, not really the way you prepared for war in germany against hitler you needed to mobilize. They didnt. They didnt want war. Neville chamberlain, Prime Minister of england, made it clear rather appease hitler than prepare to fight him. Very few in britain were not saying you cant do that. Win ton churchhill the foremost opponent of appeasement. He knew hitler was a tremendous threat, not only to europe but to the world. He kept saying weve got to get ready, weve got to get ready. Basically the government ignored him. He was in parliament at that point, he was in parliament and was a backbencher. Nobody paid attention to him. Same with france. France lost 1. 6 million of its young men, huge percentage of its young men. Cspan in world war i. Guest in world war i. They had invaded by germany. England was notinvaded. They were invaded and suffered terribly. They lost much of their industry. They were a country that really didnt bounce back very well. So they were just desperate to avoid war too. There was that spirit throughout europe, that we really cant have it happen again. Well pretend like it will not happen again. Cspan in your book, a question of honor, you write more people died in warsaw alone during the war then did americans in both european and Pacific Combat theaters . Guest thats correct. Poland was hit terribly, terribly hard in world war ii. The First Western country to be, country in europe to be invaded by germany. It lost 6 Million People i believe. 3 million of them jews in world war ii. By far the highest loss per capita. I mean the soviet union obviously had more than 20 Million People were killed but they have a huge population. The pols lost almost 20 of their population in world war ii. Cspan your book, troublesome young men, may 1940. What was going on . Guest may 1940 was probably the most important month in some ways of the whole war, for europe, for the u. S. , for everybody. May 1940 was the kind of the, cull minutetation of culmination of Neville Chamberlains appeasement policy. It hadnt work. Germany invaded poland in 1940, mildly to the dismay of the brits. They had not been prepared. They didnt know this was about to happen, this surprise invasion of norway and denmark, and it did. It was a huge defeat for Neville Chamberlain. So may 1940 was this amazing debate within the government, particularly in parliament, do we continue to appease or do we finally stand up . The, that debate in parliament lasted two days i believe. At the end of that debate basically, there was a vote. Neville chamberlain won it very, very narrowly. He knew his days as Prime Minister were done. He really did not have the support of many members of his party in parliament. It was an incredibly dramatic debate. Winston churchill was part of it, but he was not leading the charge of the antiappeasement members of parliament. He was in chamber rapes government at that point. He was defending chamberlain in front of his fellow parliamentarians of the meanwhile this group, troublesome young men i gave to the group, members of parliament who were antiappeasement, who were rebels, who basically thought they had to get chamberlain out and bring churchhill to power. So this debate was extraordinarily dramatic and exciting. These guys saying we have to get chamberlain out or were going to lose. He have to do something. The upside chamberlain was forced out and Winston Churchill became Prime Minister, may 10th, 1940, the very day hitler launched the blitzkrieg of western europe. For drama, i dont think you can beat that day. Once churchhill took power, he rallied, started to the rally the british to fight. Meanwhile, hitler was just making mincemeat of all the countries he was going through. Starting, it was belgium, it was holland, it was luxembourg. Then into france. He toppled them like nine pins. Once they got to france, everybody thought, he met his match. The french were supposed to have the best army in europe. They were mowed down within several weeks. By june, it was clear france was about to fall. So therefore, who do we have . We have one small country, standing alone against, you know this mighty germanbehemoth. Of course that was london, and britain. And so, it was an incredible month. Cspan when did british troops first enter mainland europe . Guest they came in before the blitzkrieg started. Once the war, once england and france declared war against germany, that was on september 3rd, 1939. The british did send two divisions into france, to you know, in preparation for an eventual offensive by germany. But, that period from September September 1939 till may 1940 what became known as the phony war. There was no combat. There was no fighting at all. Supposedly france and, france and britain declared against germany because of poland t was to, because germany had invaded poland, then the allies declared war but they didnt do anything for poland. They made all these high sounding speeches but nothing happened. Nothing really did happen until april 1940 when hitler invaded norway and denmark. That was really the beginning of the german offensive. Then it really took off with the blitzkrieg in may 19 who and by the end of that blitzkrieg, as i said, only the countries that there were a couple of neutral countries in europe, switzerland and sweden being among them, but the rest of the countries were under german occupation. Only england was still standing. Cspan when did dunkirk take place . Guest dunkirk took place at end of may 1940, first part of june. As the german troops were coming in, basically they cut off british and belgian and french troops that were in belgium. And then they crossed into france and nobody was expecting them to do that. And so they basically were given a free rein at that point. And those troops in belgium and france, the british troops, british authorities realized they were going to be basically cut off and in prisoned and some killed if they didnt get out. So pretty early on churchhill and British Military started making plans for that evacuation of british troops from dunkirk. Really only talking about less than 20 days from the time of may 10th when hitler, when germany marched in to western europe until the dunkirk evacuation started t was a very, very brief time and churchhill did not tell the french this is going to happen. They made plans for the ships to start to come over to evacuate british troops but the french were not notified until actually the evacuation had actually begun and they had made no provision in the beginning to take out french troops. Only british troops. So the alliance, that partnership between britain and france which already unraveled tremendously was basically totally gone by the time the french realized their allies were leaving them and going back home. Cspan is it common to think that the germans had they pushed on the dunkirk invasion could have changed the course of the war . Guest there are a lot of could haves, and one that could have happened. Why hitler stopped, he stopped his tanks for advancing on dunkirk for some reason. It was not really clear why that was true but he did. I think if there had been a lot of historians if germans had been much more aggressive they could have, you know, basically cut off that evacuation and not, you know, more than 200,000 troops, 300,000 troops, were evacuated, most of them british. And so, the british army was saved. It would not have been saved. Obviously it would have gone down if germany had managed to cut it off but they didnt. Cspan lynne olson, most of your books are about world war ii and europe but that is not your background or training. How did you get interested . Guest by happenstance. Serendipity. I was, im a journalist by training. I spent 12 years as a journalist. I have always been interested in history. Then ive been anglophile all my life but i never really thought that i would write, much of my life would be devoted to writing books of history about england and world war ii. It happened because i left daily journalism. I got tired of deadlines and i wanted to do longer work, more extensive work. I like doing reserve. I wanted to be able to do more. And so, my husband is also, stan cloud, is also a journalist. Cspan with time. Guest with time magazine. We were looking around for a book to do together, decided, edward r. Murrow, one of the great journalists is one of my alltime heroes. Couple of biographies were written about him, very good biographies so we didnt want to do that. We decided to do a work about correspondents he hired to create cws news before world war ii. Some of the research we did involved london because that is where he made his name in 1940, reporting the blitz and battle of britain back to listeners, cbs listeners back in the United States. I did a lot of research. I fell in love with the place. I fell in love with the period. I fell in love with everything about it. As is often true i think with historians and writers, one book led to another. That really got knee going on it. I had absolutely no thought it would happen. Cspan a blog entry last year you wrote, i rely heavily on the human angle in writing history. Guest yeah, i do. Part of that comes from my training as journalist to write about people, focus on people. I remember as a child history classes especially in grade school and high school, they were so boring. I remember mem liesing dates, e memorizing dates and events, i didnt enjoy it, i didnt like it. Once i got in, my husband as you said worked for time magazine, and time was very, very big, or writing about people, as newsmakers. Really on Human Interest stuff and im by training as journalist a feature writer. I was, that was focused that way too and so much interesting writing about people. People make history. History is obviously made by people. So i want to be able to bring whatever i write about, the period, et cetera, alive in the way, i do it is through the people who are making that history. Then talking about them. What makes them, what made them tick . Why did they decide to do this and not the other . Why did Neville Chamberlain decide to be an appeaser . I think that people like reading about other people. So and, so the human angle is incredibly important to me. It, when i decide on a book, topic, it has to have really, really interesting characters, at least characters interesting to me before i will, write about it. Cspan who were the murrow boys . Guest the murrow boys were a group of extraordinary journalist that murrow started to hire when he went over to london in 1937 for cbs. Cbs is, radio journalism had not been invented back then, not in the way we think of broadcast journalism now. It was basically commentators who were kind of pontificating. You know, cbs, for example, i mean, i think their idea of journalism back then was to record night tin gale not in Barclay Square but something else. They would donate ture programs programs or requires, not journalism the way we know it. Murder row was sent to london for talks for cbs he would arrange talks. He didnt want to do it. He had no training as journalist up to that point. He basically wanted to be a journalist and wanted to hire other journalists to report news from europe. Europe was on fire then. It was clear hitler was a threat. Mussolini was a threat. Sew went around hiring the best journalists he could find. His first hire william shire a correspondent in germany at the time. Cspan rise and fall of the third reich. Guest rise and fall of the third reich. Before he did that he was correspondent in berlin by murrow. He had a terrible voice. If you have seen a picture of william shire, short and dumpy and balding a little moustache, terrible, terrible voice but he was spectacular reporter. That is what murrow was looking for. He wasnt looking for guys with really great voices. Didnt matter what they looked like. You didnt see them. It was radio at the time. He wanted really, really good journalists. It was shire. Eric severide young reporter starting in paris. Charles whoinggood, howard k. Smith, people that watched television in the 1950s and 60s, they were incredible correspondents. He wanted people in the coming war and on going war as it was coming on. Cspan what was their impact on the war and u. S. Policy . Guest they had tremendous impact on the war. Murrow having the most impact. Murrow was probably, im going out on a limb, he was, probably the most prominent american war correspondent during the war. He had amazing impact. He had a huge following. Just giving you one example. He really thought we needed to get into the war. We didnt get into the war obviously until december 1941. Britain was on the brink of disaster, on the brink of defeat. It was the last Country Holding out against germany from june 1940 until december 1941. So murrow was on the airbaseally over and over again, we have to get into the war. He didnt say it in some words but that was clear from the tenor of his broadcast. We have to get into the war. We can not let britain go down and it had an enormous impact on public opinion. In fact a lot of people give him a change in public mood in the u. S. From isolationism, to if not interventionism, thinking we had to come to the aid of britain. That continued throughout the war. Cbs was by far the best in terms of broadcast journalism, in terms of war reporting and, throughout. They had an amazing influence on what was going on. Cspan was the u. S. Prepared at that point . Goodness, no. The u. S. Was about as badly prepared as in fact, not as prepared as many of the European Countries. You know in 1940 i think the American Army ranked 17th in the world next to portugal and you know, bulgaria. I mean we had, the army was pitiful. Very, very few forces. You know, they had no equipment. Our aircraft was, they were, it was really, you know, nonexistent. Certainly was an air force but it was, there was not a buildup that came later. If we were in a very bad shape in terms of defenses in 1940 and really it began to gear up. So by the time we got into the war it was better but still the big mobilization came after pearl harbor. Cspan lynne olson, one of your books, those angry days you write about american firsters. This is blog entry in 2015. John kennedy, gerald ford, curt vonnegut, gore vidal, kingman brewster, all household names in mid to late 20th 20th century america. Late in their lives, they had something in common, in late 30s, 40s, they were passionately involved in american involvement in world war ii. True. I did not know about that in research of those angry days. It was a story how america moved from the very strong feeling of isolationism in 1939, 1940, then started gradually thinking that maybe this is our war. And the book is really about the fight in this country about, about what we would do about the war. Whether we would help britain or not. Whether we would enter the war. It was a really brutal fight, and, as i said, one of the things really surprised me, to find on the side of isolationist, were a lot of College Students who basically said, you know, this is not our war. Look what happened in world war i . We were supposed to make the world safe for democracy and we got hitler . Why should we obviously they were going to be ones on the front lines . Why should we fight in it is not our war. It is not our fight. All those men, john f. Kennedy, sergeant shriver, they were College Students. They were part of this group called America First, which is the prominent, preeminent isolationist organization in the country. Many of those people you mentioned were founders of America First. It was yale College Students who founded this incredible isolationist organization. I have to add that all of them left, and by the time the war happened, they had enlisted. Virtually everybody that you mentioned was fighting for the u. S. Many of them win credible war records and a number of them left America First before we got into the war. They realized it was going to be our fight. That we were getting into it so they bailed out. Cspan want to play a little bit of video a little clip and this is charles lindbergh. I come before you at this time to enter a plea for american independence. There is no division among us about the defense of our own country. We have always been ready to fight against the interference of foreign powers in our affairs. If need be, we are ready to die for the independence of america, as our forefathers have died before us when the necessity arose. On a clearly American Issue we stand a united nation. It is only when we are asked to take part in the quarles of Foreign Countries that we divide. Cspan that was in 1940. Did he ever change his mind . Guest no he never changed his mind, he always thought we should stay out of the war until december 1941. When japan bombed pearl harbor, attacked pearl harbor, he instantly stopped that. Now that war was upon us he backed roosevelt who he fiercely opposed up to that point. He backed roosevelt in his declaration of war. He said now that were in the war, that he would support it with everything he had. Cspan lynne olson, up till niece 1941, was he in the majority . Guest that is a really interesting question. It is a complex question. In the beginning he was in the majority. I was saying in 1939 he was certainly in the majority. Americans, as a whole were felt as College Students we talked about, felt, world war ii was not our war. We had fought it. It hadnt worked. Many americans thought the british had tricked us into it through incredible Propaganda Campaign. And so they were determined that wasnt going to happen again. And so the mood in the country from 1939 through, i would say the fall of 1940 was heavily isolationist. That did begin to change i think with, there were a number of factors. One of them was the bombing, the blitz in london. The constant bombing, the battle of britain and the fact that the brits survived. That the brits not only survived but they said, we are not going to give up. You know, im sure many, if not most people have seen these incredible scenes of london afire but, you know the british people trudging through the wreckage to their jobs. The courage of british people was extraordinary, not to mention the courage of the Prime Minister who had become a household name in this country for his defiance of hitler. So thanks to murrow and others, that, the knowledge, the reporting on that, i think began to change peoples mind in this country. Also there was a big campaign. Not only America First fighting for isolationism, there were groups in the United States that were advocating interventionism. So they started having an impact also on the country. And so, this back and forth, back and forth was going on. Finally by the time of 1941, you know, i think, certainly by the time of pearl harbor, most americans did not want to go to war. Nobody wants to go to war but i think most americans, certainly, it was seen in the polls, were ready to go to war if it meant, that that was only way germany would be defeated. In other words they didnt want to go to war. It they were kind of resigned to the fact we were going to go to war. So there was quite a huge shift in American Public opinion but it took place over really basically two years. Cspan between september 1st, 1939, december 7th, 1941, what was the communication link between fdr and churchhill . Guest it started out before, actually before churchhill became Prime Minister. They started writing letters to each other. Roosevelt was obviously president then. And once churchhill became Prime Minister, there was a, regular, exchange ever cables. Sometimes, phone calls. Between the two and what it consisted of churchhill pleading for roosevelt and u. S. To get into the war. And roosevelt saying everything he can, i will do everything i can short of war. Roosevelt was very wary of isolationist mood in the country particularly in congress. Congress tended to be isolation istist republicans were heavily isolationist. This was a political guy. 1940 was the year a president ial election year, and he was running for a third term which was unheard of. Nobody had done that before. So he was particularly concerned about the reaction of him doing what many people thought was too much to help britain at that time, because he was running for reelection. He was worried about that too. It was interestingly fraught year for everybody concerned in 1940. Certainly for europe it was, but also in the u. S. You know, we, for the allies to win, the u. S. Had to get into the war. There, everybody knew that. For britain to survive, u. S. Had to get into the war, everybody knew that. The question was, are we going to get into the war . And so, it was extraordinary year in many, many ways. Cspan good afternoon, youre watching booktv on cspan2 and this is our monthly in depth program. We invite one author to talk about his or her body of work. This month journalist, author, historian, lynne olson. Here is a quick look at her books. The murrow boys which we talked about a little bit she cowrote with her husband, stanley cloud. Came out in 1996. Freedoms daughter which we have not talked about yet, the unsung heroines of the Civil Rights Movement, came out in 2001. A question of honor, came out in in 2003. Troublesome young men, the rebels who brought churchhill to power, saved england came out in 07. Citizens of london, the americans who stood with britain in its darkest hour, came out in 2010. Those angry days, roosevelt, lindbergh and americas fight over world war ii, came out in 2013. Her most recent book out this year, last hope island, britain, occupied europe and the brotherhood that helped turn the tide of war. Well be taking your calls as well and your social media comments. Here is how you can contact us. Air code is 202. If you live in the east and central time zones, 7488200 is the number for you to call. Mountain and pacific time zones, dial in on 7488201. We have set aside the third line this morning or this afternoon for world war ii veterans. We would love to hear your voices as well. 2027488202 is the number for you to call. Now if you cant get through on the phone lines, would still like to make a comment, there are several other ways. Twitter, instagram, facebook, all have our, handle for all of those is booktv. Well scroll through those addresses on the screen as well. Finally send an effort mail to booktv cspan. Org. Well take the calls and comments in just a few minutes. From your book, troublesome young men, you write, by 1936, hitlers Propaganda Campaign in britain was bearing considerable fruit. In certain upper class circles it was considered politically sound by height of fashion to be pronazi. Thats right. There was a very large contingent of progerman aristocrats, particularly aristocrats. It was true in other, in other realms of society but upper class, heavily progerman and it was very fashionable to go to germany and to hobnob with the nazis, including hitler. The medford family, they had, famous five sisters, two of them were very pronazi. One of them unity, went to berlin, became a, an associate of hitler and killed herself, shot herself in the head when basically, when britain went to war against germany. She survived for a few more years. Yeah, there were, it was very, very, there was very strong progerman sentiment in the chattering classes in england and some in the royal family as well. And so cspan what about the u. S. Ambassador to britain at that time, Joseph Kennedy . Guest kennedy, yeah. Cspan where was he on this . Guest Joseph Kennedy was loathed at the end by the British Government, churchhill and british people, because he was also, i wouldnt say progerm. Any. He was a business man and germany would bo to war against britain and britain couldnt possibly survive. It was clear that britain could not stand up to the might of germany and he thought he was a friend of Neville Chamberlain. Chamberlain felt the same way. There was no way britain could survive if it were forced to go to war and so therefore we had to appease hitler and that is the way Joseph Kennedy thought too. He continued to see that, even after britain did go to war. You know, until he went home in october of 1940, he was publicly espousing appeasement, publicly saying that britain couldnt survive. That it was going down to defeat. And as you can man, the british people just went nuts over that. First of all america was not helping very much to begin with in their struggle. Then you had the American Ambassador espousing, you know, capitulation to the germans. Cspan what was fdrs reaction to ambassador kennedy . Guest fdr didnt like joe kennedy, although he was, joe kennedy was his appointee. He was the one who incident him to england but i think a large part of, and he certainly didnt agree with what he was saying, but again, fdr, the political animal, was afraid of joe kennedy politically. He was afraid of his influence among the american people. So he wanted him to stay in london. He didnt want him to come back to the u. S. Before the election in 1940. So he did everything he could to keep him there until finally joe kennedy left, you know, fdr didnt call him back. He just left in october 1940. Fdr was going crazy. It was right before the election. He went through all the convoluted plans to stop him from speaking publicly until he met with fdr, which happened, and fdr managed to persuade him not to get involved in the, into the Election Debate so therefore he kept him quiet until after the election. So he didnt approve of him. It was not fdrs finest hour to appoint joe kennedy as ambassador. Clearly when he was appointed it was clear that europe was on, was about to be on the verge of war and he was the wrong person to send. Cspan who was john gilbert winet. It is winet. He was joe kennedys successor. Total opposite in every way. Kennedy was a millionaire. John gilbert he went by gil. Gil winet was former politician. Former governor of new hampshire. Very much idealist of economic social justice. Ally of Theodore Roosevelt even though he was republican. The two had been governors at same time in 1930s, late 20s and 1930s. And when Social Security act was passed, in washington roosevelt named gil winet as first administrator incredibly important program, a republican. And he took the job. Then he, in 1936 when the, republicans were against Social Security right from the beginning, and they made it a Campaign Issue and gil winet quit his job at Social Security administration, thereby giving up any hope of political career in the republican party. He basically destroyed his political career and basically denounced the republicans for their opposition to Social Security. So he was, he was very much of an idealist, a moral, a man full of moral courage. Then became head of the International Labor organization based in geneva, and when roosevelt was looking around for a successor to joe kennedy he chose gil winet. He went to london march 1941. That was probably the worst time of the war for the brits. They were close to defeat. They are Merchant Shipping was devastated by german submarines in the atlantic. They were having a terrible time militarily all over for them. The u. S. Was still dithering what it was going to do. Then this guy, this very shy guy with a stammer, he couldnt speak very well, anyway he arrived in london, gil winet arrived in london. Said no place i would rather be than in brit inthat the british people fell in love with them. They really bonded with him. During the blitz when bombs was falling, and go out on the the streets of london and walk the streets, basically asking people what he could do to help. So the newspapers got ahold of this. What he was doing was publicized. So he became a symbol to the british that maybe america, maybe there was something good about to happen. That he basically stood up for them. It was really, really important, you know, in so many ways. And then once we did get into the war, then he was this, so he helped create the american, angloamerican alliance. He put it together, you know, after we finally got into the war. Cspan now, lynne olson, you say he bonded with the british people. He really bonded with the churchhill family, didnt he . Guest yes, right. He is one of the three main characters in my book, citizens of london. All three of them, was gil winet is the least well known of these three. Edward r. Murrow, reporting from london and Averill Harriman was leader of lendlease the military aid Program Congress passed 1941 to help britain. So he was very, very important as well. So i tell the story of these three men and what they did for the alliance. All three of those men did bond with members of the churchhill family. In fact they all had affairs with members of the churchhill family. Harriman had very well, notorious affair with pamela churchhill, who was the daughterinlaw of Winston Churchill. Her husband, randolph was churchhills son, and was in egypt at that point. So they had, they did not keep this affair they were having in wartimelondon. Murrow, once, harriman, in 1943 went to the soviet union as u. S. Ambassador to soviet union. She switched her taken shunses to edward r. Murrow so they had affair. And winet had affair with churchhills favorite, middle university today. There was incredible romantic atmosphere within the churchhill family at that time. It is not surprising actually, because churchhill basically welcomed all into his, not only his professional family but obviously into his real family. He was determined to get american support and to pull us into the war, once into the war basically try to get his way with roosevelt. He basically did his best to know these guys and bring them in. So that obviously, they were, they spent a lot of time with the churchhill family. One thing led to another. Cspan well you focus on those three in citizens of london but did they Work Together . Did they collaborate in their efforts to get the u. S. More involved in the war . Guest from macro view they did. All three of them believed intensely, passionately, that america had to go to war to help britain. They all believed that. Once we got in they all worked to keep that alliance going. In terms of their own personal relationships with each other, murrow and winet were very, very close friends. They were very much the same way. The two are real idealists. They hoped and believed and were working to make sure a better world would come of this war. You know, that it would lead to equality, justice, all good things everybody wanted. Averill harriman was not a good friend of either one of them. Harriman was former businessman, a millionaire a businessman who was very much on the make. He wanted to make his mark in government. He couldnt do it in the u. S. Franklin roosevelt didnt give him a job within his government. So he decided that he was going to do it in england. So he basically set out to cultivate churchhill and his family and the government, and did make his mark. He was, churchhill relied on him to a great extent. And as a result of that experience, in london, in the soviet union, during world war ii, he became a uber diplomat after the war. But he was, he was, he basically tried to elbow gil winet aside, basically be the number one american in london and gil winet obviously did not like that at all. So they were at odds through much of the war personally. Cspan 202 is the air area code. If you want to talk with lynn olsen, 20274 in those of mountain and pacific time zones. A third line set aside for world war ii era veterans and people who were living during that time. 2027488202. I guess, if you were living during that time time, i was doing quick math, if you were in the war, born 1925, that was minimal, you would be early 90s these days. Guest thats right. Cspan do you have any idea how many world war ii veterans are alive . Guest i dont. I know it is rapidly dill diminishing. Cspan lets take calls. Lynne olson is our guest. Rona in sarasota, florida, is first to call. Caller thank you very much for this program. I got so excited when i heard lynne olson would be on. She is one of my favorite authors. I canceled what i was doing today. There is sign on my door, do not disturb me until its a emergency until 3 00. Cspan before you ask the question what is it about lynne olsons work that you admire so much . Caller what she says about history. I had same exact experience taking history courses. I am 84, is have a kid at time, i very much remember world war ii. My dad was only civilian on Roosevelt Field during the war. He was working on lindberghs plane, knew him, upset about his attitude toward the war. Even though i was a kid i did get a lot of information about the war. I can not thank miss olson enough. I love one about the polish pilots. I forgot about the pilot of that book. I became an honorary poll after reading that. Thank you so much. Guest thank you. Cspan now, rona, do you have all her books, talking about a question of honor about the polish pilots . Caller yes. I love that i love that. The rest of the book, i have two more. Rest on my night table to get to. Cspan you have a real fan there. Guest thank you very much. I appreciate that. Cspan which of your books has sold the best . Guest citizens of london by far. Cspan why do you think that is . Guest it is really interesting. Im not really quite sure. I have ideas, i asked people why. A lot of people come up and say, you know that is my Favorite Book that you have written, or i really love it, i ask them. I think there are a number of reasons. One of them, one of the main reasons is gil winest. I think. One of the reasons i wrote this book was to bring gill winet to the world because i had never heard of him before. Pretty sure nobody else had either. So, i structured the book in a way it wouldnt just be him. But he was really the inspiration for write writing the book. In this incredibly turbulent world that we live in, with ideals he he had, he did good, he appeals to people. It is a very, a very, romantic time. Terrifying time. But it is, it is very dramatic. I think people really like the story of not only americans in london but how the citizens of london are, you know, obviously brits too, mostly brits and how they reacted to, you know, horrendous life that many of them had. I mean being bombed. Being rationed. Yet with this incredible courage, a lot of good humor, and so, im a romantic at heart but it is a romantic story, and its a story of americans coming there and having lived in the country we lived in with two oceans, not dealing with all this, what they were going through but americans who were in london during that time had to deal with all of that. So there was a great bonding between americans and the british and you know, i dont know if you want me to talk about this but the citizens of london comes from a broadcast that eric severeid, of the murder row boys he made before he went back home. He had been in london during the blitz, covering london with murrow for cbs and was sent back to washington. But before he left, he made his final broadcast was about him. It was very personal. About how he had come to london and in the summer of 1940. He had been covering paris, was there are to the fall of france. Traveled over to london, stayed several months there and, at the end of the broadcast, he was comparing paris to london and how paris was like this beautiful woman who died, who just gave up, just gave up life. And then he came to london, and he said, he at first hated the whole idea because he thought brits were snobs. They looked down on americans. That he would never ever get along with the brits and then he found that he, he fell in love with the brits and fell in love with londoners. At the end of the broadcast he said, he was trying to keep himself together. It was very emotional broadcast, and he said, in years to come people will write, i was a soldier, i was a sailor, i was a pilot, and others will say, i was a citizen of london, and you know, every time i talk about it, i tear up because it was so heartfelt what he was saying. He was a citizen of london as were the other americans there. Going back to why it is most popular of my books, is it was a time most of us wished we could live through and this incredibly difficult time we live in, the idea of people working together for the greater good, i think is very appealing and people like that. Cspan well, lynne olson, when i asked you that question, i had preconceived answer. I thought it was going to be troublesome young men. Every summer booktv travels up to capitol hill members of congress what theyre reading. Over the years weve done this, we just want to show you a little bit of video. Reading a book entitled troublesome young men, by an author who escapes me, explores conservative members of parliament, back benchers, laid foundation for Winston Churchills replacement of Neville Chamberlain. Im reading a book about Winston Churchills rise to power called, troublesome young men. Rise of in the late 1930s, disgusted appeasement of chamberlain administration towards the nazis. They orchestrated election of win ton churchhill which was widely believed to elevated most important leader of world war ii. Last year i finished a good book that many of us in the Freedom Caucus, Marlon Stutzman read it. He gave me copy. I read it. We liked it. Gave a copy to everyone in the Freedom Caucus. It is troublesome young men. About the back benchers in parliament in 38, 39, 40, remove chamberlain out of parliament and bring upchurch hill. Fascinating book and involved in changing our leadership t was sort of an interesting book that i read in just the last Congress Trouble some young men by lynne olson has to do with a rise of a small band of conservatives in the parliament during the churchhill period and kind of motivated by, im a member the House Freedom caucus. We have 40 or 50 great folks trying to get country back on straight, solve some fiscal problems, and just represent the people more closely, do what the people want to do. So i think this book will give me a little motivation there. Cspan Vice President of the United States, back in the stay, Senate Majority leader, two members of the Freedom Caucus reading troublesome young men. What do you at this of that . Guest has appeal. Not only american legislators. Ive been to canada. Ive been to britain. Mps have said that to me in britain. Mps in canada said the same thing. It is kind of a rorschach test, people reading troublesome young men quote. They read it and see that and see themselves is what is going on as one basically said. It is not just, these are all republicans. Democrats have said the same thing to me. So it is, they, Winston Churchill is a hero obviously to a lot of people including many, many legislators and so, you know, it is i think they all think thats them. Or they wished that were them, i dont know. But i think, in terms of members of the house and the senate, on both sides, i really do think they put themselves into that situation. Cspan and on february 3rd of this year in the guardian, you wrote that among republican members of the u. S. Congress there are no profiles in courage at all. Ironically this collective cowardice applies to several current congressman and senators who have told me over the years how much they loved troublesome young men, clearly seeing themselves in the mold of those wartime rebels, yet not one of them has been willing to stand up to donald trump an emotionally disturbed authoritarian president , who equates criticism of his policies with treason . I did write that. I believe every word and stand behind them. Cspan was Winston Churchill immune to criticism . No. He didnt like criticism. He certainly didnt like criticism. But he would take it. I mean he would grumble and woe yell and he would scream but, depending who was offering the criticism, he certainly accepted it. For example, in, the war cabinet, people would often you know, argue with him about what he wanted to do, and again he would grumble, think about it and come to the same conclusion. His generals constantly were saying, you cant do that. He had a lot of cockamamie ideas. He had really wonderful ideas but a lot of cockamamie ideas. Again he would grumble and, but he would, basically agree. So he, he did listen to people. He was always in charge, but he did listen to people. Cspan lets hear from clyde in at kin, minnesota. Youre on with author lynne olson. Caller thank you very much. Good afternoon for taking my call. I have always been very curious about this particular part of our involvement in the european campaign, and once hitler knew that we were going to enter the war in europe, and then especially after we were bombed by the japanese in pearl harbor, the collaboration between japan and germany and what research might have led people to discover if there was any idea that if it were, hitler were to come to power and win the war quote, unquote, the real domination would have changed and was there any collaboration or unification or would there have been a large push between germany and japan after that point . And then if i may, i have a very proud statement i i would like to make. I have a few people having a father, im almost 70 years old and was in world war i. I would like the question addressed ill really curious about that thank you very much. They knew it was going to be difficult to win and said lets continue against the soviet union and britain and not get involved. Hitler had been furious at roosevelt and the United States for a long time and he declared war three days after japan bombed pearl harbor. We did not declare war immediately against germany. I think a lot of people dont know or forgot that. The Congress Declared war against japan an december 8th, 1941. We did nothing in terms of germany until hitler declared war against us and we declared a war against germany and italy. So, i think the lack of real closeness between germany and japan proved to be a real problem. You know . They had not really collaborated on, you know, on going to war with the u. S. Certainly that was one of the surprises. They had no idea what happened. Nancy, please go ahead with your question or comment. Thank you, peter. You have a brand new fan ms. Olsen. I havent known about you but what you are saying is incredible. My question is and i know you mentioned and i dont want to use the word sympathizer but there are rumors he was a nazi sympathizer and i was wondering what your thoughts are and i will take my answer off the air. It is a complex answer. Ly ly lynnberg was the strangest person i written about. He didnt understand human beings and didnt like being around he wasnt a great socializer. He loved technology. And his interest in germany was basically through that. He really admired what the germans were able to do scientifically and in terms of technology. E specially in terms of flight. He thought lis waffle was the most powerful air force in the world and germany was the most powerful country and at that point was foolish and certainly for the United States to get the win. In terms of how they brought back and hitler was going to revitalize the world. He knew what was going on and he was a strange individual. His approval in terms of technology and bringing the country back from economic. Was there a string of anti semitic in there . He was anti semitic in many ways. Certainly a speech in 1941 in des moines really basically shattered his image in the country and was anti semitic. He often said publically what others were saying privately. One of the surprises for me and doing research for this book and jews were barred from universities. They were limited to a small quota. There was a very strong string within the government and state departme department. It was very anti semitic. Barbara west on facebook please ask ms. Olsen to conflict on lynn more lynn burg. I write her in those angry days and my favorite character maybe isnt the right word but the most interesting character of the book was married to charles lynnburg and found that whole period to be totally upsetting and putting it so mildly. She was caught in the middle of this fight between lynn burg and the isolationist and Franklin Roosevelt and the interventionist. Her father came from one of the most eligible areas and he became the most important person in the world by flying across the atlantic nonstop. Hand some, modest, charming, everything and it was a time of being a cynic and fast living and corruption and then you had this god, you know, this god fly across the atlantic and avenued fell in love with him. He was the one who married him. Her life turned out to be far different than what was expected. He and Franklin Roosevelt were sprung into this male celebrity and as bad as it is now without privacy but lynnberiurg and his wife were beyond the pail and couldnt go anywhere without people following them and shrinking at them. She was a very shy woman and a very, you know, retiring woman, but a woman with a mind of her own. Very talented and a good writer. This wasnt the kind of life she wanted. When he thrust himself is in the middle of the debate over whether we should get into the war and became the spokesman of the isolationist movement, this governor was not what she wanted again because she was an interventionist but was loyal to her husband so went long with what we was doing. It was a time of great emotional conflict for her. I dont think she ever recovered from it. It was damaging to her personally, damaging to her family, it ruined his reputation in many ways. It was really, really difficult for her. And that all on top of the kidnapping . We havent even talked about the kidnapping of their child. People who were not around dont know about this but it was one of the most notorious events with their little by being kidnapped from their home in new jersey and taken and murdered and neither recovered from that and i think it played a huge role in what what happened to charles later on. When his child was killed and the way it was covered by the tabloid press it was so revolting to him he thought there wasnt any freedom left, individual freed. He took ann and their second son who was born well after the kidnapping and took him to europe in the mid 1930s and that is when hitlers government invited him to germany and used him for propaganda purposes. They wanted him to say the germans are unbeatable. He bought into their propaganda ploy. So, you know, went on from there. Robert in new hampshire. Hi, robert. Caller hi, ms. Olsen i really enjoyed your citizens of london. I really enjoyed it enormously. The question i had of you was churchills relationship to chamberland and how it contrasted to his relationship with Stanley Baldwin. He seemed to be personally loyal to chamber but really loathed baldwin. In your research, have you found out why he had such a deep personal animosity toward baldwin . Who was Stanley Baldwin . He was the conservative Prime Minister who proceeded chamber and he was Prime Minister in the 20s as well. I just always wondered why churchill disliked him so much. Guest you know, that is a really, really good question. I think part of it was just personal animosity and bad blood. They had gone against each other on a number of issues including if you remember when the king advocati advocate d because he wanted to marry a divorced american. Churchill was very much a romantic and a royalist. He supported the king in his fight to marry the woman he loved and baldwin was very, very much against that. You know, that that could not happ happen. And in terms of rearming, you know, in right of hitlers threats they were also very much opponents in that regard. That is a really good question you raise. Churchill was very loyal to Nevil Chamberland until the end and britain declared war. You know, chamberland invited him into cabin again as first lord of the admirality. Once churchill was part of the government he was pressuring chamberland to be more aggressive against the chamberlands. Publically he supported chamberland in what he did and even until the very end he was going against these and we were talking about men who desperately and widely were saying zee to get chamberland out of there. If we dont, we are going to go down to defeat. There is no question we will go down to defeat until the very end Winston Churchill was defending him. Churchill was very loyal to people who brought him into the government and certainly to Nevil Chamberland and he kept him in the government and didnt throw him out. That was loyalty but also because he was still very politically afraid that well he was polyt politically unpopu even once he was Prime Minister and wanted to keep the members on his side and kept chamberland and lord halifax in the government who was the foreign secretary because he was afraid they might try to oust him. It wasnt until several months later when he started making the great speechers with fire on the land and fire on the hills and he became the symbol of british resistance and only then did the tory party start lining up with him. But until then he was very nervous about what was going to happen. Host meredith from new york city sends in a question you answered about churchill putting chamberland in the cabinet. What was his post . Was he there for show . Did he have substance . Guest he was an advisor but was definitely in the cabinet. Churchill did listen to him. He may not have gone along with what he said but he did listen to him when he was in the cabinet. Chamberland was loyal become to churchill and supported him in those early days and months of churchills premiership. There is a new movie coming out in november which is about this period in late may of 1940 when lord halifax and others within the government actually were pressuring him to think about negotiating and making a separate piece with hitler. There was a lot of pressure on churchill at that point and many people think that was one of the primary aspects of the war. Linda is in kaufmann, texas. Caller here in kaufmann there is a number one flat museum which chronicles the history of the officers from the Royal Air Force that came over and learn to build during the world war ii and i am always interested in what the womens part of that was and colin baxter here from in kaufmann was a link instructor at the school but that has nothing to do with the question. I wanted to ask lynne earlier in the program she was talking about Winston Churchills daughters and their affairs they had with the american journalists that were in england at the time. I was wondering, although you can never really say how one person does anything, but if she thought that that was a calculated affairs or if they were true from the heart . Guest that is an excellent question. That is a really good question. It depends on which relationship you are talkinging about. The pamala churchill and harem relationship there is a lot large part of calculation in that. Pamela churchill was egged on by Winston Churchill. He certainly didnt express disapproval of her relationship with him even though she was cuckling his son. Churchill basically was a realist. He wanted the americans in the war. He wanted to win the war. His first thought was for britain and britains survival. If it meant sacrificing personal relationships i wont say he didnt care but that wasnt the most important thing. The most important thing was britain. I think Pamela Churchill thought he was encouraging her in this relationsh relationship because she learned what the americans did. He went along with it. I think the social element was very much from the heart. They were both they needed somebody. They were both very lonely and i think they truly did love each other. It didnt work out. I think each of them was very important to the other throughout the war the time they were together. When did avril and pamela get married . Guest well after the war. His wife was living in the United States and never came to london. And a number of other things. This wife died and pamela went on to have many affairs with other men and married one or two more. She was probably in his late 50s but they ran across each other and went to a dinner party and the whole flame next call comes from victor in california. Caller thank you. Ms. Olsen, thank you for your contribution to history and bringing light to this subject. Recently i read a book whose name i cannot remember because i am going into senality. He appeased incestantly. Then later when the war turned against germany they needed to have somebody to blame and his opponents and politics and avenui everything was appeasement on chamb chamb chamb chamberlands part. The blame was laid at his feet and the victors in england were celebrati celebrating. How do you see that, maam . I know there are a number of his to historians who argue and that is a strain of of history that has come up. He is talking about the need to have a stronger air force and there was some work done and certainly it was built up but not built up defensively. Most of the money went to defend britain against a german attack. They were saying maybe they will have to go to war but there was a feeling that there was nothing that could be done. There was this idea that the bomb would always get through. That was a Stanley Baldwin line. The bomb will also get through. The german bombers will destroy us. They will blow us to smith renes if a war starts and it is all over if that happens so we must do everything we can to stay out of that. He was fierce and more warlike against domestic opponents than he was against germany. He was a tough guy who punished those who didnt agree with him. Guest i did about a years worth of research to do this pook. After that and i had actually started writing and it is a huge project. Seven different cities beside england i would have to go to. It was overwhelming and i didnt think my publisher was paying enough money to do it. I put it aside and came up with the idea for citizens of london and fsu did not want that. My agent took to random house and they wanted it. My agent said why dont you go back to the idea of occupied europe and england. Inwent back and she was right. Several years went by and i thought i could tackle it and felt comfortable doing it. What became your goto places for research . England principlely. France. Where is england . The National Archives which has a lot of information obviously about the British Government but it has information about the european governments in exile that i write about and about their relationship with british officials. England is the home of the governments and exiles papers. At the end of the war, poleland was poland was handed over. London is still a treasuretrove of information and i went to most thof the can countries i write about as well. Researching in berlin. What was that like . I didnt do any research there. All the primary research was about the alied governments in london. We will talk about those stories and characters in a minute after this break. We ask you to share your authors and what you are reading and here are the answers lynne olson gave us. 9 00 p. M. Easterern. You can watch previous episodes on booktv. Org. Your Favorite Books. Is there a common theme among these books . Some were written among women. I said i wasnt i wasnt thinking that. You are right. I tend to read books that are by English Writers and i loved england before i went there. You are inspired by donald carson. Who is that . He was a professor at the university of arizona where i went to school. When i was a kid growing up, i was good writer in school but i didnt know what i wanted to do. I knew i wanted to go to washington. He waunz of my inspirations. I wanted to be part of what he brought to publix service. I wanted to go to washington and retained that gel of when i was in high school and went to college. When i was finishing my sophomore year in college, i thought you want to go to washington what are you going to do in washington . I didnt want to be a secretary or assistant. I wanted to do something important. And so i thought what can i do . So, i thought about journalism. I decided to take a journalism class at the university of arizona. I took my first class and i fell in love with it. I fell in love with the whole idea of journalism and the reason i did is basically because of the professors there. They were all former journalists themselves. There was a whole group of them that were just absolutely wonderful. They encouraged me to become a journalist. Everything about it i just loved. I loved the idea of going out and reporting. I loved the drama of going air and asking questions and do that are for a living. I thought it was fabulous. They encouraged me and i majored in Political Science and graduated and got a job almost immediately with the associated press. They wrote letters and thanks to them i got my first job. So they were and still are very, very important to me. Where did you get your writing style for your books . If you know about the wire service, it is just the facts. I learned it is important to attract the reader right away. Not only do you want your most important facts in the first paragraph but you want the most interesting facts. I soon gravitated to being a feature writer. It wasnt as fluid as i wanted it to be. I happens to have the good fortune of marrying is magazine reporter who is a brilliant writer. My husband. And we wrote two books together and he really did influence me in kind of opening up and kind of telling a story and i cant really explain what i learned but i learned how to tell a story better than i had been doing up to that point. So it was a progression. I didnt start out as a fluid, kind of setter of a scene. I grew into it. But stan really, really helped me in that regard. Host well, speaking of grabbing the reader, last hope island opens on april 9th, 1940. What happened . Norway was invaded. But i open with the innovation and the german ships coming up into osbrow at night and nobody is expecting it. It is april and still cold in norway. Everybody is asleep except for a number of ships. Norwegian ships who were guarding and a couple of norwegian shore batteries. All of a sudden they realize these two war ships are going up to the ship yard and they try to stop them. Norway has a miserable navy. Very small navy. Everybody thinks they are relics and they sank the war ship. It is about the sinking of the war ship and the king and his family and his government escapping just as the germans are about to capture him. That escape was treacherous for a couple weeks. He went by train to a town in a 6070 miles north and the germans were on their track and started driving in cars and again this is april but it is not spring time in norway. The weather is treacherous still. It was icy. At one point the german fighters caught up with them in a small village and took shelter there for the night and german plains, fighter plains, suddenly appeared over this Little Village and a warning was sounded so the king and his son, the crown prince and government ministers flood into the forest and took cover under the trees while these bombers were coming down and shooting at them and dropping bombs on them. None were killed. They all survived. But one of the planes was shot down and the pilot had in his jacket we got rid of the king of norway and his government. The king and his people were trying to allude the germans and eventually did. He made it to london. But incredible story. Chapter two. Queen of holland. Norway was in april. In may, the next month, the queen of holland is sound asleep and gets awakened and word that the germans have started to invade her country. They are not coming by sea but dropping by parachute in the holland. Totally surprised and people had no idea this was about to happen. She takes her daughter saying war has come. And she has, it isnt as dramatic but also has several days of dodging the germans and finally leaves holland. She didnt want to leave holland. She wanted to stay. She was a feisty woman and wanted to stay and fight. Not just be queen but fight with her troops. But was prevailed pawn to go to london which she didnt want to do. How interrelated were all the royal families at this point . King hawkin was the uncle of king george the 6th at britain. Queen victoria had so many children and her children married lots of royal families within europe. They all were, you know, not only knew each other but were related to each other. Hawkin married king edward the 7th daughter. He married his fifth cousin who became queen mod. When she was young, when hawkin was young, his parents wanted him to marry queen and he didnt want to. He wanted to marry mod but they knew each other. He wasnt even norwegian and didnt speak it until his 30s. He is one of the Great Stories of this book. Unfortunately, he happened to be the grand son of the king of norway in sweden. They were alive and part of a confederation until the early 20th century and norway in 1905 decided it did not want to be part of that confederation. It wanted to be an independent country and didnt go to war against sweden. They told sweden we want to be independent but we will take a member of your family, of the royal family as our king. They didnt have a king at that point. So the king of sweden and norway decided that the only person to fit that bill was prince charles, a danish prince. That was the last thing he wanted. He wanted to remain with the navy. His wife mod that was the last thing she wanted. Either wanted to be on the thrown but they were prevailed upon to. So he became king of the country that he knew very little about. He could not speak the language until becoming king and had to change his name from carl to hawkis and queen mod refused to. He was considered an outsider and felt like an outsider until world war ii. The government of norway is liberal and socialist and never accepted him as queen. They didnt like the idea of monarchy to begin with. He knew right from the beginning hitler was going to be a problem. He read mind comp and kept warning the government you better pay attention. He refused to give into hitlers demands he accept a norwegian nazi as the Prime Minister. He said if the government wanted to do that he would advocate and no longer be the royal family. A lot of government ministers wanted to give into hitler but because the king was so insistent they went along with him and the country resisted. He was really the centerpiece of norways resistance throughout the war. This guy who was considered an outsider after the war was the most beloved person in norway. You know, he had totally changed his life as a result of world war ii. And queen will meana, didnt she give a house to the kaiser from world war one in germany and he was living in holland . She became queen when she was ten years old. Her elderly father died. The king of holland. And she didnt act as queen until 18 but was very strong wild from the beginning and refused to often listen to what people thought her government thought was the right thing to do it. He gave haven to the kaiser and they were furious at her and she did. Terribly sad story when they wanted to go ice skating and they cleared off the canal and she wanted to skate by herself. There is another wonderful story. She hated what she called the cage which was the very straight laced formal stiff court that she grew up in. She hated it. She wasnt allowed to state with other people and had to skate alone. My favorite story about that time is she was once overheard as a little girl scolding one of her dolls and said to one of them if you continue to be naughty i will make you a queen and where you will have no other children to play with. That is heart rendering. Much of my story of here during world war ii is her struggle to break open that cage that she was in. Once she went to london, she was no longer surrounded by this court and she had power. She made, you know, great use of it. I say it wasnt churchill and the british who had their finest hour during world war ii. What you write in last hope island is why have the contributions by allies other than the u. S. , britain, and soviet union been neglected by historians. You see churchill bears much of the responsibility for the omission. Yes, he did. We havent talked too much about the contributions these countries did make to not only help britain survive but in terms of over all alied victory. And i think one of the main reasons is churchill p he sai that during the war, he said that the day the war ended, and he said that through, you know, after the war. They had all these other governments from these occupied countries who were contributing a lot. I think that is one reason why what you read is true. I think people look at it as the big three who were really the ones who made all the contributions. Lynne olson is our guest on booktv. We have another hour to go. I will put the numbers up. In case you cant get through on the phone numbers we have some social media sites where you can make a comment and we will look at those as well. But i want to point out we have set aside a third line just in case there are any world war ii era veterans or people who lived through that era out there who would like to call in and talk. 2027488202 is the number for you to call. Bruce in chesterton, indiana you have been very patient and thank for holding. Caller i want to thank ms. Olsen for her insight. It has been helpful looking at the origin of world war ii and intrigues that happened at the time. My understanding is that Winston Churchill was a very strong proponent of the British Empire and besides sitting with himself or england itself he was interested in reestablishing, maintaining the British Empire after the war. That probably didnt have much effect until the end of the war until it was obvious the germans were going to lose. I always understand that president roosevelt wasnt enclined that way and was kind of anticlonalist. I was wondering the relationship between the two and after the war. He was determined not to give up the empire as a result of the war. He was saying the days of the empire were over and this is a huge poipt of controversy between the two men. It occurred at the same time the United States and the soviet union were taking over more responsibility for the car. The u. S. And soviet union were clearly the big boys in the war stating in 1943. They had been close churchill and together a lot from pearl harbor onwards starting loosing interest in churchill and england. It was obvious he was siteing with him on a number of issues and the two of them making fun of churchill and it was painful he was doing this. He thought he was friends and close to roosevelt and when this started happening and roosevelt made it clear he was against the British Empire and thought it should be dissolved. It was difficult for churchill to accept. He fled too much work but a lot of people including i share the belief that he basically had been soheart by what roosevelt did to him he didnt want to go. The younger men who grew up in the upper classes, went to Public Schools in britain and got job in the foreign office, financial area, rank the best wine, 8 the best food and in the beginning their wonderful careers asked by the government to go and become spies from britain in various nefarious foreign parts of the world the used to be france when france was seen as the enemies of britain and then it became germany. To go off and solve the problem, stop the nefarious from invading britain or doing something terrible to britain and then back to their lives in the city or wherever. These are extremely popular not only in england but in germany. Interesting that hitler was a fan of these books, so was kim miller and reinhold heidrick, the two top people in the ss but they both were addicts of these spine also came to believe and i 6 was this allpowerful organization. The reality was very different. And i 6 was underfunded, tended not to have the brightest bulbs in the universe and its ranks, really messed up a lot and when the german blitzkrieg was going, all the British Intelligence networks had nothing when the war began, thanks to these occupied countries who brought their Intelligence Services with them to london am i 6 appropriated their work. Am i 6 was giving the money and their spies continued spying, their countries in france poland, holland, spies come intelligence agents picking up information about the germans, sending it to london so it wasnt am i 6 minimize 6 took credit for it. So all these great intelligence coups about the v1 and v 2 bombs, rockets, came from the french and the polls but and i 6 took credit for us so the gun emplacements on the shores of normandy, all this stuff the allies needed to know to invade and keep the bombs from coming came from europeans, didnt come from brits, came from european Intelligence Services. And i 6 took credit for it. John is calling in from new york. It is if i push the button. John in rural new york, start again. Caller thank you for resurrecting me. I am glad to have had the pleasure of those angry days roosevelt, lindbergh, and americas fight over world war ii, 19391941, and the latest one, last hope island britain, occupied europe, and the brotherhood that helped turn the tide of war. I sent you an email you were kind to respond to my email so thank you for that. You were just talking i did ask in that email why you didnt include something about the Channel Islands and you said succinctly because you are writing about london so i thank you for that but you were talking about the suspicions that the United States and fdr with respect to churchill, with regard to reestablishing an empire and i just finished reading two books by Matt Hastings and he wrote retribution about the war in japan and also armageddon the last year of the war and he points out adding to what you said that fdr and the government in general dissuaded britain from becoming more involved in the last year than the war in the pacific because they saw it as an attempt by him to have legitimacy, having a power base to reinstate a power base in britain over the pacific. I thought that was interesting. I came across that. Host your seemingly large interest in world war ii, why is it . Caller why is it . That is a very interesting question. I started when pearl harbor was attacked i was 4 years old but i am amazed at the recollection i have, i was 8 years old when the war was over and yet i have such vivid recollections, which is hard for me to explain. Only thing i can attribute it to is the war permeated every in our lives. It wasnt like today where the war is being taught by somebody over there, some country we understand very little about. It was so personal because everyone had someone who was involved in the war. In the pacific i lost an uncle. He was on the Aircraft Carrier bunker hill. He was killed. By, causey planes but i remember the day the family was notified happened to be mothers day. We went to visit my grandmother. I have a cousin who thought the north africa italian campaign. Went to italy and followed where he went. It was so much a personal thing in our lives, very vivid to me so as i got older i started to develop an interest in learning more about it. We are going to leave it there and let lynne olson respond to your question. Guest i cant add to what you said. You are absolutely right. I havent done Much Research about the pacific because my interest has always been in the european theater but no question the us tried very hard to keep britain from being heavily involved in the pacific. They considered we considered an hour war. We had done the lions share of the fighting and very much against having britain come in at the end, and they were thinking of the future, postwar. He talked about death. 400,000 americans lost their lives in the world war ii era. Half of those being soldiers and the rest somewhere else but that 400,000 compares to 25 million. No question the loss of life in world war ii was unbelievable. The soviet union for the brunt, but we got off fairly late, 400,000 is not light. That is a lot of people but compared to poland and the soviet union and other countries in Eastern Europe overall. Not even talking military, so many civilians died in europe and asia, astonishing how many and we had a handful at pearl harbor and other places, other people lost their lives but nothing like what happened the rest of the world. China and russia where the two guest i must say because of my fixation on europe i do not know much about the pacific but that is so true and people are beginning to focus more on the soviet union and what happened, max hastings being one. They did bear the brunt, no question and one of the reasons why roosevelt and churchill were willing if not eager, churchill wasnt eager to turn over poland and Eastern Europe to stalin at the end of the war, the reason they didnt they wanted to keep stalin in the war, want to keep the soviets as the main force taking the brunt of the germans so it was all political. Host max hastings, we interviewed him in london and the battle of britain, during the war years, killed crossing the street in london because of the blackout than the v 2s and bombings. I didnt know that but there were those killed in accidents. But there were tens of thousands killed in the bullets and the v1 and v 2 so he is more of an expert and i am in that regard but there were a lot of british citizens who lost their lives in world war ii. Host dave, bridgewater, new jersey. Caller on the issue i wonder i was a child in world war ii and have really vivid memories like the gentleman before, but i now in europe, for many years in europe the bad guys churchill the british manipulating the situation in europe, betraying a lot of people during the war. Some british espionage people wrote extensively on this leaving some question, england, just like germany, operated through the 20th century and race is the issue, that has a lot to do with why people are saying good riddance to england even though it may hurt them economically. I wonder if you would comment on the antienglish feeling so permanent in europe related to the two wars particularly world war ii. Host where were you during world war ii . Caller i was a child in Eastern Europe. We 90 where in Eastern Europe . Caller when senator mcgovern bombed in romania. Told to drop both leftover bombs to get across the mediterranean but decided it would be a shame to drop them in the field so they dropped it on the capital city of romania which had no military targets. It is funny my war was vietnam and we talk about vietnam, history is a funny thing. I totally agree history is a funny thing. I can speak about britain in terms that we were talking about, antibritish feeling. Toward the end of the war, it is very obvious why there would be antibritish feeling in poland and the rest of Eastern Europe, because of what churchill and his government did which was agree to hand over poland to the soviet union after poland and czechoslovakia were important allies, poland particularly polands contribution to the allies victories were enormous in so many ways in terms of espionage, breaking the enigma code, the battle of britain where polish pilots helped win that battle and many other ways. There were 200,000 polls in british uniforms across europe. The fourth Largest Military force, they helped on every european front and to have at the end they didnt get their country back, they were promised their country back and didnt get it back so i can understand that, but i have to point out for much if not most of the war britain was also a symbol of hope for much of europe because it was resisting, holding out against germany. Provided a refuge for all these government and military forces from europe where they wouldnt have been able to keep up the fight if it hadnt been for england, if they couldnt have gone to london and stay there for the rest of the war and i talk a lot about one particular important source of hope for europe and that was the bbc. The bbc broadcast to all these countries in their own languages during the war. Millions of people in occupied europe listens to the bbc even though is outlawed by the germans, in some countries the punishment for listening to the radio was death but they did. They had their radio sets and took them out clandestinely at night and turned it on to listen to the bbc. For many europeans it was the only place they could turn to and hear what was actually going on in the war, no there were countries still fighting against hitler. It did offer a flicker not a flickr it was more than a flicker of hope and inspiration for all those countries so britain did play an Important Role not only in terms of the actual fight but in terms of providing inspiration to the country but also did some really bad things as well. You have a very important point. Host from a question of honor the koscuiszko squadron forgotten heroes of world war ii, the by the battle of britains end, 303rd squadron was credited with downing more german aircraft than any other squadron attached to the Royal Air Force. Its pilots formally designated aces, the squadron because it was made from falls was not allowed to take part in official british celebrations following the war because the brits didnt want to offend stalin. Guest that is right. We begin the book a question of honor the koscuiszko squadron forgotten heroes of world war ii with this heartrending scene after the war, 1946, britain is hosting a huge victory parade consisting of all the countries that fought for the allies during world war ii so there is a huge parade down the streets of london, british, american, from all over, brazil, it went on and on and on but polls werent there. They were not invited because their country had been turned over to stalin. It was now a communist country, so the polls who had contributed so much to that victory particularly the pilots had to stand on the sidewalk and watch these people go by. Their country was gone and they werent honored in that parade. It was really tragic. Host your first book was the murrow boys pioneers on the front lines of broadcast journalism, your second book is freedoms daughters the unsung heroines of the Civil Rights Movement from 1830 to 1970, it is unlike any of your other books. It is an outlier. After we wrote the murrow boys pioneers on the front lines of broadcast journalism i was looking for something to do. I had not started on the path of becoming an expert in britain and world war ii. I was reading a wonderful book called parting the waters. Magisterial a biography, the first of a 3 volume biography of Martin Luther king but it is really a history of the Civil Rights Movement in the 195060s, brilliant, brilliant book. I was reading it and kept running across names of women who played a role in the Civil Rights Movement, taylor wrote really well about them but in my opinion didnt include enough. I wanted to know more about them. Many more women who i had never even heard of so i went looking for a book about them and couldnt find one, couldnt find a book about women in the Civil Rights Movement so decided to write it myself so turned out to be freedoms daughters the unsung heroines of the Civil Rights Movement from 1830 to 1970. We have some video of one of the women. Gathering like the day is not enough. You have to go back and reach out to your neighbors who dont speak to you and reach out to your friends who they say im making it good, get them to understand that they as well as you and i cannot be free in america or anywhere else where there is capitalism and imperialism. Until until until we can get people to recognize that they themselves have to make the struggle and make the fight for freedom every day every year until they win it, thank you. Who was that . Ella baker . Guest that is very embarrassing for me. Ellen baker was a really behindthescenes woman. I have not seen much footage of her. Everyone has seen rosa parks and some of the others. That is so fascinating. Ella baker is one of those forgotten heroines i had never heard of. She was kind of this thread that ran through the Civil Rights Movement. She connected all these groups together. She was the woman behind the throne with luther king in terms of setting up the southern christian Leadership Conference and she was the person who did it. Martin luther king was the leader but she was the one who actually created and curated, by the way he treated her as a woman and went off and became the inspiration, the godmother for the students Civil Rights Movement. The nonviolent coordinating committee, the student movement. These are the kids that went to the south, organizing for voter registration. Ella baker was there inspiration. The one who created the movement. I swear to god that is the first time i have ever seen that. There is so little that i know of. I have not ever seen that. She is so incredibly important to the Civil Rights Movement but she was one of many women behindthescenes doing all the work, not all the way, they never got credit for what they did. Host freedoms daughters the unsung heroines of the Civil Rights Movement from 1830 to 1970 came out in 2001. Not even sure there was youto that you write about ella baker. From her earliest days she kowtow to no one, she was always protesting something and Martin Luther king was not fond of any criticism but bakers complaints were particularly galling. Old enough to be kings mother baker guest that is perfect, you can tell that she doesnt take anything from anybody. She is extraordinary. Really an extraordinary person. Host just to make sure we have touched on freedoms daughters the unsung heroines of the Civil Rights Movement from 1830 to 1970, that is part of lynne olsons collection. Charles in, washington. Go with your question. Caller i am a big fan since troublesome young men the rebels who brought churchill to power and helped save england. Didnt know anything about that. As if churchill just appeared at the right moment and the polish book, i knew they had flown in the battle of britain. I didnt know about the huge accomplishments they performed during the war or that say had the fourth Largest Force in the war. I dont do autographs. I dont understand that. I got an autograph at an air show, the little air museum in everett, washington. I get choked up sometimes. There were two polish pilots there. The younger one had fought who is best during the war, the of what had actually 5 fught in t battle of britain. I had to get his name. When i read David Mcculloughs book about washburn, the ambassador to france during the francoprussian war during the siege, really put those two men together. If you havent read it, it is a wonderful book and a great story. I want to thank cspan for continually putting on this show. Host thank you for your comments, thank you for watching. Are you retired . Just a working guy. I do a lot of things. I drove cars, didnt have anything, and important career but i did world war ii because when i was 4 years old during the war, we lived near Mcchord Air Force base and they had what i found out later was a group of people he 7s and i had my own private air show as they did their maneuvers over our barn, just incredible. Looking straight up, a big wow. Host in tacoma, washington. Guest that is so i choke up too when i talk about these pilots, we got to know a number of these pilots when we were doing the book, a question of honor the koscuiszko squadron forgotten heroes of world war ii, still a fair number of them around. In seattle, washington, when we were there, one time, a tall, distinguished older gentleman came up to us and he said you remembering your book in the beginning when you write about the parade and talk about a pilot standing on the sidewalk and a woman starts walking away the woman says to him why are you crying, young man . He said i am not a pilot. I had a lot of tears that night too. Thank you so much. Caller i like all the discussion of your books but wanted to ask, as a norwegian american, we didnt think that much of sweden but always wondered why were sweden and switzerland able to sit out both world wars . The answer is because it was strategically important for both allies and germany that they both particularly at the beginning of the war it was important for germany, both of those countries, that they be neutral. In terms of money, laundering money, sending money to switzerland, freezing sweden provided some important elements like iron or. So if it wasnt important to remain neutral germany would have taken them over. The neutral countries in europe and world war ii are fascinating places. Portugal and spain were neutral but a receiving with spies from all the countries who were fighting, japan, germany, britain and the United States were all their spying on each other, a lot was going on. A lot of underhanded stuff going on in these neutral countries. Host was anyone in the 1930s, lynne olson, putting the dots together and saying the sky is going to fall . Wikipedia injuries people were were, king hawken was saying that, Queen Wilhelmina was saying that. Winston churchill was saying it in britain. There were people, there were groups. The overall attitude was because we dont want another war we will close our eyes and pretend it cant happen. That was the prevailing attitude in those countries and the United States. Host chapter 3, king leopold iii. What happened . Guest he is one of the sad stories, the monarch, i write about two others who made names for themselves and got to london, became heroes and heroines. Leopold was the king who didnt leave. He was considerably younger in his late 30s and 40s. The situation was different, he had some power where they didnt. He was commanderinchief of the Belgian Armed forces and he also, part of the reason his story is sad, he wanted to be like his father king albert who had decided over belgium in world war i, king albert was a commanderinchief of the belgian forces and when they invaded belgian, the first country invaded by germany in world war i. He said he was not going to leave and was going to remain in charge of the forces despite the fact that everybody was overrun by germany. He and his forces managed to win one crucial battle early on which means belgium kept a small part of its territory to the victory in this battle where king albert stayed and was able to keep that territory as fast as they kept a number of airports as well and he was a very popular figure, a war hero. So his son grew up hero worshiping his father and wanted to be like his father. His father died young in a mountaineering accident. When world war ii happens, i will do what my father did, be the hero, took charge and the germans were going to win, he said he wasnt going to leave, stay with his troops, his father said he would never leave belgium, leopold says i will never leave belgium so he stayed. It was a huge mistake. He surrendered. He be the subject of total opposition to him and britain and france was extraordinary. Churchill and the french laid all the blame for the defeat of all these countries at the foot of leopold. If leopold had not given up, everything would have been fine. We could have continued, father germans, beat them, it is all leopolds fault because he capitulated. He is being guarded by the germans, cant say anything so he stayed for the rest of the war, met with her to get the best met with to get better treatment for his people. He made a grave mistake. Host honorable the head of the french government said because they surrendered, that was the reason the germans were able to sweep in so quickly but the belgian forces allowed British Forces to leave at dunkirk. They were fighting and they were holding off german forces. If that hadnt been through, the evacuation of dunkirk wouldnt have happened so he became the whipping boy for the defeat in western europe. Host another thing i learned in last hope island britain, occupied europe, and the brotherhood that helped turn the tide of war is they recognized to be she france blues not the free french. Guest the be she government was the legitimate government of france. Turned over and designs, turned it over to marshall immediately it still was the government. The only french official who went to britain with a lonely Brigadier General name charles they gaulle who no one had heard of but britain did not recognize the government, Winston Churchill recognize charles they gaulle as the unofficial head of free france. It wasnt an official position at all. The us, france and roosevelt, but he could get them to come over to the allies side so they did officially recognize them as the legitimate french government. We had an ambassador, and embassy, and that continued until the germans invaded all of france in 1942. He tried very hard to get the officials to come over and they never did. Host lets hear from doug in brookline, massachusetts. Caller someone said history is an agreedupon set of myths. I have a question, as an anglophile i am sure she is following the trial in london and whether or not she had any opinions. Guest that trial was over david irving as being a holocaust denier. Historian who basically wrote is a holocaust survivor which indeed he was. The idea that the holocaust didnt exist, didnt happen, is beyond belief. Anybody who knows anything about world war ii and what went on in poland and the soviet union and Eastern Europe knows that it happened. So much evidence surrounds us it is astonishing he managed to bark out this which he did as long as he did. Host 2027488200, east and central time zone, 202, 7488201 in the mountain and pacific time zones. You live during the world war ii here and would like to comment, 2027488202 is the number for you to call. Lynne olson, churchill and roosevelt and other leaders aware of the concentration camps and what was going on in germany . Guest germany sent up concentration camps, they political opponents in germany, dakar was established in the 30s and some of the others were too. It wasnt until 42, early 42 the final solution was decided upon. And extermination camps. The difference between extermination camps and concentration camps, they were horrible, hundreds of thousands if not millions of people died but they were not set up deliberately to kill people. Many died as a result, they were murdered there, but it wasnt a systematic thing to murder as many people as you could. Extermination camps. The reason, hard to get information from poland, wartime poland, obviously so much in control but churchill and roosevelt both knew about the extermination camps by 1942. The polish government in exile, polish couriers with an occupied poland managed to get out and bring this information to london and elsewhere. Jewish organizations were passing it on, the polish in exile published a report in 1942 talking people who already died in these extermination camps in poland and that was published and the government spoke out, British Government spoke out forcefully, americans didnt do much but nothing was done about it and the question becomes what could have been done . I dont know. Certainly it could have been a more forceful reaction than churchill or roosevelt mounted. That was not something they wanted to deal with. They did not want to deal with it. Both of them saying the important thing is win the war. That is what will help. That was the rationale at the gates of everybody, why arent you doing this . Why arent you saving the dutch when they were starving the last week of the war, why arent you doing anything . Best thing to help the dutch to win the war and es, the answer is yes, they did know about it. Host john in west palm beach, florida. Caller give me a few minutes if you would. To know world war ii you have to learn world war i. People forget what we went through in world war i, the 100th anniversary, we didnt get there until april of 1918 a year after we declared war and didnt start fighting until summer time and we lost this is combat deaths, 53, we lost more, 63,000 because of injuries from the war and disease. The total of 116,000. The british in one day lost 65,000 men and when people look back at chamberlain they dont see what the english people saw which was horrendous death, renders personal tragedy from world war i, it is like a football team, the winning team suffers a lot of injuries but they win, the losing team suffers a lot of injuries but they lose, they want revenge and hitler was the revenge, they wanted to move on and last thing they want was a war. I have a question as far as Winston Churchills citizenship. His mother was an american citizen if im not mistaken. Could he have been president of the United States . Guest he wasnt born here, you have to be born here to be president of the United States. He would have loved being president of the United States. He was very proud of his american heritage, he really was. He was not all that popular before he became Prime Minister within london, he came from and upperclass background and was always regarded as not quite proper among the people he grew up with and they laid a large part of the blame on the fact that he was half american, that he was emotionally outspoken, all the things you are not supposed to be when you are british but he was so he took great pride and delight in being half american. He appeared before the house of representatives during the war and said if i had been born, basically saying i could be up here as president of the United States rather than as Prime Minister. If things had been different he could have been president. Host he was unemployed after 1945, plenty of time to come over here and to be president. Guest he was voted out of power, the conservative party was voted out of power which was stunning to virtually everybody, especially churchill. Everyone thought he was going to win or most thought he was going to win. He had won war, no question without Winston Churchill he we might be speaking german now. Im exaggerating, but he was extremely important and so everybody thought because of that he would win but the british people were tired of war. They had been on the front lines too. Their houses were bombed, they suffered tremendous deprivation and they wanted a better life. Especially those in the lower workingclasses wanted more. They had put out for their country and wanted something in return and didnt think churchill was up to the task to be a peacetime Prime Minister and they were right. He was old, tired, he had done brilliant work as a wartime premier but would not have been a good peacetime premier. He did come back as Prime Minister but that was a mistake, probably shouldnt have. Host from fredericksburg. Caller i want to ask lynne olson if she could relate why the germans fought so hard after the disasters of spring of 1945 and why it would take eight days to surrender after the suicide of hitler on 30 april 1945. I will read a lot of your books. Guest part of that came from hitler, we will not surrender. I will see germany ruined before i surrender. They feared what was going to happen to them afterwords. Thanks to the aggression of the soviet union. What would be the fate of those top officials wont be good regardless. Germany was being decimated by american and British Bombing campaigns but wasnt going to surrender or give up. Host is there another anglo centric book coming up . My next book is about the French Resistance. Host is it safe to say the free french and the French Resistance or two different . Guest im writing about someone in last hope island britain, occupied europe, and the brotherhood that helped turn the tide of war who was part of the Intelligence Network in france and the relationship of that network with england so a lot more of what was going on in france during the war. Host did several of your books build on each other . Did you get on idea from one end going this way . Guest each book is a Building Block for the new one. When we did the murrow boys pioneers on the front lines of broadcast journalism we watched an old british movie called the battle of britain made in the 60s with a cast of thousands, all the british actors known to man. One seen in the battle, in the movie, squadron of polish pilots, speaking polish, and we were surprised because neither of us knew there were any british pilot in the battle of britain, turned up 20 were not british, from occupied europe. The sparks or question of honor and one thing led to another, cant remember what it was but that men the rebels who brought churchill to power and helped save england. Host in citizens of london the americans who stood with britain in its darkest, finest hour you write the eight days after the surrender of japan, harry truman canceled food shipments to britain without any warning to the British Government. The war had been over for two months. Guest what they were going through wasnt over. Harry truman came to the presidency after the death of Franklin Roosevelt. He had not been prepared to become president. He was not in the loop in terms of policymaking, didnt know what was going on in terms of the bomb and all sorts of stuff he didnt know. One thing he didnt know was how bad off the brits were at the end of the war. They were bankrupt, had no money. He got a lot of pressure from people in congress, republicans and democrats to stop this aid program that was benefiting the british, so he did, not knowing what he was doing and it was devastating. The british needed this money to live. Rationing in britain became worse after the war ended than it was during the war. Rationing didnt end for the brits until 1954. They won war and they were worse off than formerly occupied europe which covered faster than the british. It was a horrific americans did, truman did without knowing what he was doing. Host patrick in baton rouge. Caller my comment and question is i am disturbed by what i see as present minded history. I am also a child of world war ii and in fact i was at fort benning with my father who was a professional soldier when the japanese bombed pearl harbor. And what i think people today cannot understand is the absolute terror struck in the heart of this country. You see things like the twin towers today but i have the feeling people watching fat, that is like specialeffects in the movies are on television. They dont really get. And the atmosphere of complete unity is that everyone is involved in this, this has got to be done. It was a wonderful spirit in many ways. That to me has been lost. To go back to the concept of viewing history by present day standards like the gentleman from romania was decrying the fact that bombs were dropped on cities and towns, but nobody cared about that because we were scared to death. Host lets hear from lynne olson. Guest theres a problem looking at history from the present day. That is one thing i and a lot of historians try to spell out. We can look, to give you one example, world war ii is known as the good war, the generous the greatest generation, we had to do it, it was a fight against the worst evil ever and that is true looking back on it. When americans were going through two years leading up to our getting into the war they didnt know that. The isolationists were wrong looking back on it but they were not doing it for bad motives, they did believe it was not good to get involved in this war. Those young men we were talking about early on, john kennedy and gerald ford and the ones who created America First didnt know there would be a greatest generation in a couple years, they didnt know what was going to happen to them. They didnt know what was going to happen in those extermination camps in poland. From their point of view they were doing the right. It is really important to keep that in mind when one reads about what happened before. Another example is people saying about occupy europe, in france and poland and elsewhere, people didnt resist enough. There is this myth about widespread resistance and it is a myth. Most people did not resist. Why didnt they . Where they collaborators . If i were there i would have resisted. I you would have to have lived in one of those countries before you can say that. You cannot pass judgment on some happened 60 or 70 years ago under circumstances you cannot possibly imagine how horrific they were. One has to guard against judging what happened and by the standards of today. Host lets see if we can get it from lakewood, florida involved. Caller i would like to make a comment about the prevailing viewpoint about Queen Wilhelm ina. I lived in and stood damn, i was born there, 100 which i can tell you Queen Wilhelm ina was totally offputting. The country did not like her even though she made a grandstanding statement to defend the netherlands. When they found out she left for england they considered her a traitor. Unlike king of belgium who got in the crosshairs of the population because there were statements to germany, the queen, nothing, absolutely 0, to help the netherlands. The Public Relations ended in the netherlands and london were so high and eventually she moved to canada. I that is the prevailing viewpoint. I stand on that stage. Host thank you for calling in. Guest parts of what you said is correct, no question she was regarded as an elitist and aloof before world war ii, that is the way most people saw her in the netherlands. And she was not popular when she left and that is what she feared. She didnt want to leave because that is the way she thought people would regard her. From all accounts and i have done a lot of research in this, the people from london, she did become the heart and soul of the resistance, made many broadcasts over the bbc encouraging her people to stand and resist and she spoke constantly about germans and hitler and using swear words nobody in holland had ever heard her use. I respect your viewpoint but the majority of people in holland came to love her. She did not move to canada. Her daughter and granddaughter went there during the war. She stayed in holland and visited the United States and canada during the war but she lived in london throughout the war and went back to holland the instant she could come back in the response from the dutch was she came back, overwhelmingly positive. There are elements of truth in that but overall not true. Host i couldnt find it but you recount her flight back into holland and the greetings she got, etc. The fact she wouldnt eat strawberries because none of her subjects could eat strawberries. She came back before holland was totally liberated, she felt she was gone long enough, brought back with her a royal retinue, two young dutchman, military aid to camp and secretary. They set up shop in a small manor house in one of the provinces in holland and as soon as she got there, thousands of people poured in by foot to greet her and every night she would hold court in the sense that she and her daughter came out in this manner house, lines of people would go by her and shake her hand and tell her they were happy she was home. Host for the last we 3 hours lynne olson has been with us, shes the author of 7 the latest being last hope island britain, occupied europe, and the brotherhood that helped turn the tide of war. Thank you for your time. Guest thank you. Cspan, where history unfolds daily. In 1979, cspan was created as a Public Service by merricks Cable Television companies and brought to you today by your cable or satellite provider. Booktv takes hundreds of other programs throughout the country all year long. Heres a look at some of the events we are covering this week. At the metropolitan ame church we will hear National Book Award Winning on how the Obama Presidency reshaped americas political landscape. Susan worden gaetz, former Vice President of Public Policy will talk about the collapse of the mortgage giant and virginia tech. Thursday we head to George Mason University in fairfax for the book festival where we will recall time as a camera man during the vietnam war. Saturday in maplewood new jersey and wards bookstore