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Welcome. If you quick housekeeping notes note. You could silence your cell phones now so we dont get interrupted it would be great but usually we have about 30 minutes of talking and then we take questions. We are filming so it important and i hope you all have questioned that use the microphone and get up and ask them as opposed to shouting from the audience. If you would think of questions from there and asked them that would be great. Those of you who are familiar with our offense would ask you to pull that the chairs, dont fold up the chairs today. Thank you. If you enjoy this event we do 500 operatives a year so check out the events calendar. We have november and december out a lot of good stuff. If you havent been down there its beautiful. We have events there and its a great space. Now for the good stuff. Im excited to introduce kimberly mehlmanorozco. Kimberly holds a doctorate in criminology law from George Mason University with an expertise in Human Trafficking. Shes one of the few researchers with a background to qualify as an expert in human trapping and promote Civil Court Page served as a peer reviewer for Human Trafficking publications and publications and talk team attracted new material the number one ranked Criminology School the country the university of Maryland College three cheese here to discuss her new book hidden in plain sight americas slaves of the new millenium with information director narrative accounts of reallife trafficking cases interviewed with Empirical Research in criminal case files and intellectually rigorous account of mock him enslavement. Every sizable city in this country is home to some form of Human Trafficking and every one of those at some point as a product of modern day slavery so we are all affected by it and it behooves us to learn more about the roots of the issue and what we and more importantly our government can do to address it. Please join me in welcoming kimberly mehlmanorozco. [applause] first and foremost i wanted to say thank you to politics and prose for hosting my first book talk and signing event after the publication of my first book. Thank you for the wonderful and forgot chin. Though bit more about me in addition to serving as an Expert Witness being an author and consultant on Human Trafficking issues im also the mother of four children, two girls, two boys so its very busy in my household. But i tell you that because i wanted to tell you how i became interested in looking into Human Trafficking. I first heard about the graduate school i was taking a course by dr. Louise shelly who is one of the foremost experts on the issue and she was telling me about how modern days later he existed which was news to me. Theres something very troubling to me that this was going on. I hadnt heard about it up until that point. I started looking into the issue myself. I started researching articles conducting systematic reviews conducting Empirical Research and publishing an ivory tower in graduate school but nothing could have prepared me for the moment in which bank counter the first person i suspected of being a victim and the reason being is it was on the front doorsteps of my home in montclair virginia. I was cooking dinner and my husband was still at work. We were getting ready to take my oldest daughter to track tractors and i heard a knock on the door. It was a dinnertime interruptions and as you can imagine with four children i was kind perturbed and i didnt really want to answer it. I went down and it was a young lady selling an allpurpose cleaner. She said hello maam im selling this magic in the bottle. A few squirts and it will erase any stain you have. Can i talk to about this . Most people if you are like me dont really like doortodoor salespeople and usually they will shut the door pretty quickly but i have recently learned about Human Trafficking within doortodoor sales groups. I heard her out and started asking her questions three she was up here in virginia from north carolina. She was staying in a motel with 15 other kids. Some were runaways, some were homeless and they were all pooling their money together. Their money was taken every day. They didnt eat if they didnt make money and it was red flagged after red flag situation. Thats when i started to look into it a little bit further and the concept for my book came out of the reality that existed behind the headlines. Im sure a lot of you have heard about Human Trafficking but i guarantee none of you have heard it from the mouth of the human trafficker from inside of the victim and understanding what happens behind those headlines. The objective of the book was really threefold. I wanted to take data behind the headlines of what actually happens. And i wanted to expose the various forms of Human Trafficking that existed in the United States that we consume and interact with on a daytoday basis enzi i wanted to confront sales and understand how we bridge this gap between law and the pokemon action. Objective number one in order to do that i actually did a survey. I started writing interviewing convicted human traffickers but i want to get insight about their crimes through their eyes. One of the things that i found was they are actually quite nice. It didnt happen like ahmad made for hollywood tv movie. Coming in and rescuing his infant daughter from mobsters. These men were very nice. They were very intelligent. They were very charismatic and thats what they used to exploit and use women. I want to read you a few quotes that are in the book because i think it sheds light onto who people are. The first quote i read this from chapter 1, page 11 and this comes from a man who trafficked a 12yearold girl from new york to d. C. He was the first person to spend time in prison for his crime. Sex traffic to a woman across multiple states or this child rather. When asking him why this happened why did he engage in this type of crime this is what he told me. Why does a prostitute need need . To guide her, to love her, to protect her. The is the father that she never had carried he is the big rather or the boyfriend from back in the day. He is the husband that she fantasized about over and over. The popular guy in school that paid attention to her in class. To her it is what christ is to a christian the length of thompson are hard and keeps you moving. Without him there is no hard. You need to understand she was put on this earth to be by her. What we all have in common is a unique way of life and love for women and how they are put to use what they have two get what they need. Notice i said need. We all need money to survive. Chilling. Disturbing. This convicted human trafficker never lets his left hand know what the register and katie was compartmentalizing information in order to exploit and use each of the women and children who are being sex traffic by him and he wasnt alone. Interviewed trafficker after trafficker after trafficker and they all have this Common Thread thread. They were all extremely charismatic and very intelligent intelligent. In chapter 8 of the book i interview a convicted human trafficker from the ukraine. He trafficked adult women from the ukraine to a strip club in detroit. He spoke four languages. He could quote great philosophers from memory. He was very very intelligent. He told me a cunning individual is very capable of making another person believe that he or she is in control concealing their intentions and lead that person to the edge of a cliff. Thats how i trafficker is able to recruit, control and exploit victims, concealing information. Thats one of the reasons why its so very difficult to prove it in a court of law because these men make these women and children believe that they are in love with them and promise them promised them every dream that they could imagine. They will fulfill those dreams. The reality doesnt come out until months, years later and by that time sometimes it can be too late. They are too afraid to. Reporter Law Enforcement. They have done things that they think they would be judged for criminalized for and thats what happens. The same trafficker the one who trafficked girls to exploit this as an early stage of the interview and it shows how he can interact. He knew i was smart and he knew i had a doctor than he wanted to portray himself also as an intellectual person. He wrote at the end of the day the experience makes me a better and stronger person to do things it took i took for granted before will be cherished now. Like a sica rebirth. You get to experience life all over again. How many people can say that put people out there tired of monotony. They go through life like a repetitive exercise always complaining and never content not realizing how fragile life is and how easily it can be turned upside down. We never truly in respect things so you lose them. I lost almost everything but it never lost the will and determination to persevere. I didnt buckle under this but instead forged as a person. In the grand scheme of things you can always obtain material wealth. The question is can you obtain character . Character is forced under pressure. Pressure alone can make or break you. I think that was beautifully put put. It really resonates in me and i said wow this person is really smart. Hes very intelligent. The emotions that he expressed about being in prison was really affected me and i said this is really surprising but thats exactly what they do. They put on this facade, they put on the persona and it isnt until months later that comes out. This was in the early stages of our interviews. Can you imagine what he said to me six months later . Do you think it changed . Well, it did. He wrote if i were a dude and i could get my hands on you i would eat your [bleep] brains and anne grimm member how to [bleep] your words. On the streets you get me or i get you [bleep] you. Now go play in traffic trades sorry for all the bleeps that there might be children. Its not leapt out in the book. Shocking. It was like dr. Koechlin mr. Hyde. Let locale we spoke in a matter of six months. They believed they were engaging in a consensual relationship. They have no idea that they are being used and exploited until its too late. Those are some of the posts from trafficker is but for this book i also interviewed and the pain post for consumers of the commercial sex trade, men who purchased sex for sale. But demand aspect of the commercial sex industry. When i first saw this i thought these are in back alleys. This isnt somebody that i know. The man that i interviewed most of them have masters degrees. I interviewed a journalist, a ph. D. Educated professor who started in the commercial sex services after his wife contracted cancer. I interviewed and antiaids nonprofit j. D. , an attorney. Men who purchased these services are all shapes and sizes from different socioeconomic backgrounds from different educational backgrounds and races and ethnicities, it bridges all demographics. In one of the chapters up, in a later chapter i talk about the mentality of these men. You hear about them in the news as john. They pay for sex. Thats not what they call themselves. They call themselves mongers, monger as in war. This one individual, i followed him over period of time. He was a former member of the military and he engaged in sex tourism across the world procuring services. His wife had divorced him and he thought he was living it up. He claimed to be making 160,000dollar year salary and this is how each of us to spend this money purchasing women. If one tonight one of his requests he would have another within 20 minutes. But it the pool on him as well. These men are not good, they are not bad. They are multidimensional. Later on after he had been purchasing the services for years and years and years he wrote this is bad, very bad. Im presently an eighth downward spiral in my life and may not be able to reverse because my behavior and the women i surround myself with. Im so sick of my lifestyle. The garbage to boast that is a veritable substitute for intimacy. New country new [bleep] more money but the same hollowness inside. God forbid the day i start hitting the minibar that i would give it all up in a heartbeat if i could pick became an addiction addiction, being able to purchase women for as cheaply as possible being able to pay for them to do anything you want and thats what happens. So having this inside a pink provided me with a nuance is of who is fueling this demand, for the people that are committing these crimes and it gave me insight into the survivors and victims as well. One of the women i talk about in the book in one of the later chapters i rescued her in front of the springfield mall in virginia. Per human trafficker was down here on pretrial release for Malicious Wounding charge against another woman and he was selling this woman for sex. This woman have been trafficked on and off for 20 years at one point being shot at point blank range requiring a transfusion. Which he called the police the Police Arrested her for prostitution. They did not arrest her trafficker. The trafficker eventually had this charge is dropped in this woman bounce from facility to facility seeking services that were never provided. The gaps are so stark its not a surprise to me that most of these women find themselves read victimized or criminalized. She told me it took them five days to dig a hole so deep that it would take me five years to get out of it, about her trafficker. And she still working and struggling to try to get out of that trafficking situation. Its one of those things where you are operation Cross Country on the news then you rescue all these women and children but they dont tell you the story after that headline. They dont tell you the story thats in the up that most of the charges are dropped against the traffickers they dont play the story that most of the victims find themselves read victimized, criminalized and denied services with no place to live, no job, nothing to sustain or reestablish their life. Also in the book i wanted to go to the various forms of Human Trafficking so a ill talk about sex trafficking because i got a lot of things from the Different Actors that in but in addition ipath about trafficking up runaway children massage parlors mail order brides, military sex tourism gang trafficking, trafficking of legal nonimmigrants. How many of you enjoyed chipotle every now and then or mcdonalds or taco bell quickset think all of us that one time or another. Do we question how we are able to procure that labor said chief chief cheap . To a question where they get their akel products from quite a lot of it comes from tempore guestworkers that have their documents held in arthel than indentured servitude or slavery type conditions fighting in protesting for a 1 penny increase. Peter care about that. We dont realize that in sometimes we take it for granted. I think they have all enjoyed chocolate at one point or another. Do we question where that chocolate comes from . 75 of our chocolate might be tied to the exploitation and slavery of children in the ivory coast. Its not something wed discuss. Textiles, each of those industries is discussed in this book in depth telling you how you are likely to encounter different forms of modernday slavery. I also talk about sales pollution there a few stark gaps with how we are applying Human Trafficking laws. I brought some items for show and tell for show and tell because its important to understand the history behind antitrafficking laws. The one thing that i notice in how these laws are applied today today, they are very racialized. Incredibly racialized. I talk about in this book during a oneweek time period i was interviewed by a number of Media Outlets for two different stories. One was a white mother who was shopping at ikea and she thought traffickers were targeting her children. Do you remember or have you heard that story of the ikea mom who was targeted . Google it and you will find it. She was heralded as someone who stopped her children from being slaves. At first everyone is saying great job he recognized the red flags that thats not how typically Human Trafficking happens. Human traffickers are going to go to public space and kidnap kids with a bunch of cameras and people around. It would be an anomaly if that were true but another story with viral, the d. C. Missing teens, the girls went missing. The pictures portrayed of them are mugshots or pictures in unfavorable poses are not looking the way the other mother did. People said they are not being victimized. They ran away. They chose to leave. When i was interviewed i sent those kids are the ones that are at highrisk of being trafficked trafficked. It was astonishing to me that they take that potential victimization seriously so i started to look back. One of the earliest and the Human Trafficking acts, if you know the history of how was applied it was applied very mutually. On the far right your far left i have an article from 1913, original. One of the first people that were prosecuted under the man act for sex trafficking was a black oxo by the name of jack johnson. In his prime he was giving material to his white wife to say interracial marriage was okay. Thats why he was arrested. I also have a pair i dont want to go too far with my mic. These are original mugshots of women who were arrested for prostitution. I will pass this around. I want you to look at those. Do they look like sex workers . Texas was in the early 1900s. Or possibly could they have been recently emancipated slaves that were falling under jim crow and being exploited the question, i wont know but i will know. That same period of time when those women were being arrested is when we started to see white women portrayed as the victims of white slavery sex trafficking trafficking. While white women were being portrayed as being white slaves being sex trafficked somewhere being arrested in this carried on for years and years and years years. This is a magazine from the 1940s. I was sold to japanese white. Do you have any guess when this might have come out . One year after pearl harbor. Criminalizing. Who is the criminal it was a the victim in portraying beast people how we have portrayed them racially over time. Racialization has been an issue with the application of Human Trafficking laws. We also have a lot of advocacy issues. This upcoming week the Commerce Committee of the senate is going to vote on a piece of legislation called the this piece of legislation is supposed to go after web sites like backpage that are being used to sell sex. They are being accused of facilitating the commercial sex trade but as an expert with us i dont think that should happen. I think that is the leading catalyst. Quite frankly i dont think that they should be blamed for something that happens across the internet and has been modernized by the internet and something that actually has been done for hundreds and hundreds of years. Perhaps the most rare piece that i have up here, this is a blue book guide. Its a brothel guide from the early 1900s of where you could find sex workers and brothels of new orleans. These were distributed new orleans in San Antonio Texas but it didnt begin there. Before that we saw the same types of ruffles in england and the harrisons list in the early 1700s. These have existed for hundreds and hundreds of years. Its just evolved over time so you have brothel guide. Then 1960s mailorder bride catalog and i hope youll come up and take a look at these after the talks because these are really interesting. Showing how the commercial sex industry in our country has persevered over time and white pieces of legislation like this will not be effective. It will evolve again. It will be a continuous game of cat and mouse. Instead of passing legislation and i talk a lot about this. A lot of politicians like to help symbolic victories for public athletes. Give me a pat on the back. As a modernday antitrafficking advocate and modernday abolitionist i think that we should be advocating for things up actually have a measurable impact specifically preventing new crimes, prosecuting the offenders protecting victims and establishing partnerships. The partnerships between these web sites and Law Enforcement so they can facilitate rescues. And i think in doing that and measuring the outcome we can actually make a difference on modernday slavery on the Human Trafficking epidemic thats going on in our country under that i will conclude my path. [applause] thats taller than i am. Thank you very much. As a lawyer also is an area that it has interested me for some time and i have my taskmasters as well. I was going to ask whether there has been engagement around approaching this industry, this sector of commerce not only from i hear the societal issues and the social legislation policy of taking the approach. You cited the pimp was not arrested or prosecuted for the pimp being charged in violation of whatever that particular and law in maryland would have been but rather for tax evasion and also a violation of the labor laws. There are nest of loss created and in some ways the early acts were labor related. So do you draw on those networks of laws rather than im a big lever and tax enforcement. Let me ask you what you are discovering and the conversations around the community abroad which can be effectively applied, not necessarily new laws but simply enforcing what we have. Thank you for the question. I really appreciate that and i think its an excellent point. In the book i talk a little bit about that because i do see their convictions for tangentially related items. However the cases that i followed her example one is the massage parlor. Back in 2013 it was touted by the Northern Virginia Human Trafficking task force. We prosecuted this woman. The owner had been bringing in women from new york to this annandale virginia suburb and was accused of sex trafficking. She was arrested were eventually convicted but only sentenced to three years prison at 250,000dollar fine. The book i talk about how tom jackson the Washington Post reporter wins three weeks after her conviction in the same location went back and knocked on the door and a woman in hot pants and heavy makeup answered. To this day actually there is a massage parlor operating with the same phone number. They are posting advertising on backpage. Com. Those advertisements have videos of scantilyclad women dancing to sexualized music and its plain as day. Try fair but i think a lot of these Police Officers have gone jaded to making these arrests and eventually gets the bargain down to to a slap a slap on an sentence. I talk about that case in the book and thats frustrating for me as well. This is being touted by politicians and police and Task Force Members as a Success Story story. Its like playing a game of whackamole. Three questions in rapid succession. What happens to women who shows up at your door and whats going on when some Media Outlets take offense if they do with the storys . Why wouldnt they present it, dont want to say this one objectivity here but why dont they presented and what you see is more fair and maybe i forgot the third one. And what can we do . I cant untangle myself from an Global Supply chain that is partly economic and offers up offers a cheap earth good or eating chocolate, problematic stuff. Terror chocolate manufactures, smaller one that tracks being too far chocolate. Its more expensive and i talk about how much more expensive it is in the book. That is something that can really inhibit people making change but if you think about it this way and think most people would prefer to put their money even if its a little bit more into slavery free items. At least i would have i would want to try to push that for Corporate Responsibility but to go back to your order of questions the first what happens to women knocking at my door so i talk about that in a book. I invited her into my house for dinner with my kids. She sat down we have spaghetti dinner and i read her from the Human Trafficking hotline web site exactly why is that she might have been in an exploited physician and she was really shocked because she said it described her situation to a tee. I called and Service Provider and Law Enforcement to try to intervene but she said she wanted to go back and wanted to go back to the hotel and was afraid. I gave her my personal phone number and i told her she needed a train ticket to go back to her family i would take her there or take her to a Service Provider if she ever needed me that me that once she got back into the situation with the person that was quote unquote employing for the nature of the Text Messages changed and she started demanding money. I dont think it was her. Two is back in an exploited physician and thats one of the things that is frustrating for Service Providers. A lot of these victims and persons being exploited they dont realize it and they are very recalcitrant or persistent to hell. All i have done is always told them that i will be there unconditionally when they are ready for help and if they do need it but im always willing to be there and they can calm a day or night, anytime. Ive maintained that. The woman i talk about the arrested in front of springfield mall i was in shock that how many Different Task forces with a served him that i was not able to get her a long time placement facility. I was beside myself. I have been talking the talk for so long. I wanted to put her in a place where she would be safe. None of them provided vocational training. It was only through connection the neighbor that we got a local beauty salon to provide her with a full scholarship to cosmetic school and it was amazing but it was through happenstance it wearable to do that. That should be the norm not necessarily the exception. The news, so i have quite quite a few experiences with these agencies and sometimes the click of the story is the most likely to want to get picked up and it depends on who is pitching the story. Ive written extensively on this behindthescenes and by that reporter who asked me why hasnt anyone else written about this . They are arrested for Human Trafficking but its just that either the press release doesnt go out and the charges were eventually dropped and there arent any convict sends in i do know there are other fact checker reporters looking for hard numbers about how many are job is just very difficult to combine a lot of these agencies keep it close to the vest. Think about it you are getting paid hundreds of thousands if not millions of dollars combating Human Trafficking to expose the fact that your interventions arent effective. Thats one of the things i say in the book that Human Trafficking is a crime because people value money up for human life. The same should not be true about the organizations that are supposed to combat it. My experience unfortunately i do see that frequently. I hope that answers your question. I would love to hear more i dont feel theres anything i can do about it pitts i talk about in the back end of the book. Im looking to prevent itself having pollen tuitions advocate for everpresent for people who say they are they are combating Human Trafficking investing money into evidencebased information but how do we identify people who are highrisk of being trafficked and how do we empower them to come forward to Law Enforcement . A few of the chapters talk about persons who are noncitizens both legal and undocumented and we are supposed to have a piece of legislation we were supposed to have a provision which makes it so somebody who is trafficked if they are a victim of a crime they can report it and be protected. Advocating for the application of that law. Another thing a lot of people were advocate for safe harbor laws which is supposed to decriminalize children engaged in sex work. Right now children are being arrested as prostitutes but they say we pass the safe harbor law. That doesnt happen anymore. They are still arresting these kids and charging them with prostitution crimes. Calling your legislator and telling them that you are aware that it may need to look her everbank is tased approaches is important and dont believe the hype in the media. The act is being touted as this allencompassing act by documentaries like i am jane doe. Do we really believe really believe . I progreso criminologists say thats going to happen to any to do is advocate for legislation that forges partnerships with these web sites. The internet is the final frontier of criminal industries. We need to empower Law Enforcement be able to police the internet in a way thats getting these bad guys. Call your legislator and tell them if for example they are on the Commerce Committee dont pass the sex traffickers act and i see you shaking your head. The good thing about, the good thing about Human Trafficking is that if garners bipartisan interest. Republican and democrat everybodys against modernday slavery this, explicit forms but i think for any legislator there is something you can advocate for to combat this scourge that the thing our community. I am maybe naive but hopeful that is the case. What are your thoughts about legalizing the sex. Map . Thats an excellent question and timely as well because recently there were legislators in washington d. C. That proposed a of legislation to decriminalize sex work. The book i make the important point that do do not compound to the legalization is different from criminalization. Legalization is when its a freeforall and theres licensing and so on and so forth. In places where its legalized we see an increase in sex trafficking so the clubs in germany which i passed out women are still brought in from different parts of europe and are still trafficked in a situation. I dont think legalization is a good approach. Decriminalization on the other hand im in favor of the nibert an oped in the letter to the editor and all things that were published locally saying as much. The reason being decriminalization doesnt make it legal. Impoverished victims to come forward in support victimization. Someone is a sex worker engaging in sex work, we dont know if they are trafficked until they reported or theres an indepth interview so i am in favor of that type of legislation. I am enjoying your presentation. Very nice. One of the industry that we know of that has been exploited forever and ever is the diamond industry. Nobody has stopped buying diamonds and the story has good put out there and here we are in 2017th and the industry and even though the kids are being exploited in all kinds of ways with worldwide. Do you have any new information about the diamond industry . I dont talk about diamonds in particular the book you are absolutely right. I think sometimes, the saying is he who controls the media controls the masses or she in this case. Think we need to bring these issues up really the reality of them to the public. Movies like blood diamond, people got invested and interested and they didnt want to support the interest industry but it eventually died down. Its important to keep in the Public Discourse to keep the efficacy up and the public space so they can demand to know where their money is going and also another thing with regard to the earlier question about what we can do there are a number of different web sites put up to grade different businesses on how well they track their raw products and whether there is exploitation. Its not just chocolate but text files in there are ways we can look into it more instead of and instead of looking at it as an issue worth its not happening here expose those realities and they think chocolate is not going to taste the sweet if you are seeing the kids were being exploited for it. With that politically charged issue of ilLegal Immigration could you discuss a little bit of confusion in this country and are we contributing to Human Trafficking with our ilLegal Immigration policy and a lack of a consistent message there . I talk about it that in the book as well as one of the things we did with contemporary tightening of our southern border did see the increase in the number of undocumented persons think for smugglers to win owen from maybe 30 to 40 of people paying for smuggler to 90 or 95 could not only did we see the increase in the number of people using smugglers but an increase of the charges. They went from paying 340 to 10,000 sometimes 15,000 to get from either mexico or Central America or south American South American Country to the United States. When they are paying a smuggler a criminal network there is the potential they could be trafficked. That can happen in the form of bait and switch tack tick where they are told its only going to be 10,000 but the fee goes up to 20 and they say you are going to be working for free at this restaurant or this bar or you will be selling yourself for sex and then they feel powerless. They are afraid to go to Law Enforcement and they believe theres a light at the end of the tunnel. I will eventually get free. I will eventually be able to make money. Sometimes that pipe dream never comes to fruition. If you look at some of the experts and immigration they do say if you did not address the causes and the push and pull factors you are not going to address the overall situation. You are just going to make it complicated. Before we started enforcing our immigration laws and we started tightening our border there was actually a cyclical flow of people would come and they would leave, they would come and they leave and thats how it happened for hundreds of years. When the economy declines and we choose to enforce the people just, they dont leave and thats why we saw growing growth into a 12 man dollar bubble. I think immigration when i think of Immigration Reform we do need to look at these push and pull factors but its Legal Immigration as well. Our Guestworker Program is rife with exploitation because of some of the aspects of who controls the guestworker visas and their housing in their food and their income. Are there any national vertical leaders did you feel understand this issue and have spoken out elevating it as a topic of interest and concern and making proposals that you think might help us . President ial candidates somebody that is on the horizon . Unfortunately no one comes to mind. Democrat republican ive seen them all talk about trafficking that to me a lot of the things in the proposals and policy solutions that they discuss are very hollow. I dont think they are evidencebased. I think they are pushed by experts within the field but you need to understand after the trafficking victims reduction act was passed in 2000 everybody jumped on the bandwagon. It was seen as the newest anticrime issue the fastestgrowing crime in the world. Sometimes, therefore ways to passing policy. This you have the expert pathway which is basing it on evidence which almost never happens. Long and drawn out and a lot of politicians will rely on that. The famous quote from mark twain analyzes to statistics. You have the partisan pathways for republican democrat and you vote for my act or my bill and i will vote for yours. The last one the most effective for problematic ways of passing policy is the symbolic pathway. Its taking the case for an example or an anecdote in getting peoples emotions invested in and say support this. Look at these poor children that were trafficked on backpage. Why do we support them and thats what they used to affect policy but they have no idea what the collateral consequences are. They want to do something that makes them look good and that gets passed in pixley with bipartisan support. If they have collateral a lot of them dont think that far in advance. I take quotes from a web site that is based out of the country and they are hoping backpage closes because they have said they will not corporate with Law Enforcement that they will absorb the traffic of women and children. They are not going to tell anybody about it. Hope that answers your question and i hope thats not too thats not cheaply been my experience my experience i havent seen evidencebased politician pushing that policy for Human Trafficking issue. Hows it going . Good, nice to see you. The thing about it so easy to arrest if they come forward ever crime and then the trafficker. Why is it so hard to arrest them and make the charges stick packs is it possible that kidnapping is one of the charges . Thats really heavy and its an easy way to put someone away. What is so difficult about that . Thats one of the reasons i have an Expert Witness. When i testify in court and bridging the credibility gap on the victim and traffickers worked very hard to reduce the credibility of their big them. They feed them drugs. They will make them seem like consenting participant in our own expectations when they do go before court a sex trafficker will say i was paying her and am pandering sort of way but it was not trafficking. Its very difficult to discern the difference between the two especially for adults. The definition of trafficking is the use of force abroad coercion deception for the purpose of exploitation. Their defense is she was consenting to her own exploitation. Can you imagine trying to prove consent versus corson . Thats one of the reasons why a smart trafficker or a tenured one they dont kid now. They make their victim believe they are leaving on their own consent. In resort towns they have a lot of a lot of workers some out of town and they can hide them under the shield. Absolutely. Thank you. Now problem. [applause] thank you so much. See a oaks are available at the register so definitely grab one. Thank you so much. [applause] [inaudible conversations] good evening. It should hardly come as a surprise to anyone in this room that colleges and universities have become flash points for the most heated culture war conflicts of the day. Universities are now besides a far leftwing

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