Host made a decision a lot of the ccf coming debate then vote on that neutrality regulation the newest member of the fcc on the republican side was a guest on the program and here is what he had to say about that neutrality. With this document and from december 14th this to that exact same framework that governed the internet starting in 2015 going back 20 years that preceded it and we saw massive investment in the internet system, consumers protected and a free and open internet the most fundamentally but the question is what is there right to Regulatory Framework to ensure that . Sold the doctrine puts us on the right remark before us. Host you are at the fcc with democratic chair wheeler at the time that neutrality was debated. I think that is a little bit of the of vision mr. I will explain the proposal. Number one broadband. It takes broadband oversight out of the fcc entirely and gives it to that ftc that does not have a strong the tools number one. Number two it eliminates the rules like against at t and comcast and allowing for the fast lane to charge those online providers with a better quality of service. Third, it prohibits the states from protecting competition with similar goals. So 20 years of republican and democratic chair say we dont think the fcc has the authority and we think we should do something about it. So i do disagree. Host why did you feel it was necessary to have title ii . January 2014 and overturn the germans rules. They were pretty strong rules i did not agree with all of them in with the nonprofit to support the sec but they said im sorry so to have strong rules we went to title ii but even more importantly we did not apply all of title ii but in fact, to think it is then the Public Interest. Host former republican commissioner Robert Mcdowell you have heard this discussion. Thanks for having me back. Its great to be back on and happy holidays. I think it is important to talk about history there is a lot being written about this debate so thank you for having this opportunity and what this means for consumers and entrepreneurs. And that was a good clip to play. If we a sign that neutrality as maximum Internet Freedom for consumers and everybody in this space we are looking at a weak federal statute that does that and then with a prize then with that title ii order so there are three acts were three federal statutes and the sherman act and the clayton act and there also state protections with that mitscher fcc to regulate those economics of broadband said windows Internet Service providers those that can bring classaction lawsuits so those three powerful federal statutes have provided since the beginning of the internet so in the way that harms consumers but on top of that to have a more robust broadband markets it has been going mobile for many years over 90 percent there more mobile broadband providers that is a key element they have faster speeds to dave and cable did 10 years ago. And overthetop fragmented content they are looking at the mobil screen in their reseed that marketplace try to adjust with vertical integration. And at t trying to buy time warner and comcast and Nbc Universal those are all defensive maneuvers because the internet marketplace is disrupting. But if you have more households you saw last cybermonday became mobile monday almost half of all the of purchases made were from a mobile device. So this is very good news. This will preserve it preserve Consumer Protection and allow more uncertainty that would be needed in the next 10 years with this fifth generation wireless in the five and a billion dollar Economic Activity we can have though win win environment to win the title ii order injected with all the independent wall Street Market analyst with the downturn of capital expenditures. But i am glad were here with gigi sohn. So i am delighted we have this time here. If i could shed some light and facts talk about the federal trade commission because what chairman pai is trying to do is give overall oversight of broadband. First of all, i find that remarkable the sec started 1934 and was told by congress that your job is to oversee the networks the broadcast networks the Telephone Network so this fcc says rita one oversight to access and i find that remarkable so why does the ftc fall short . Number one has no rulemaking authority. They prevent the harm before it happens. Number two the sec cease its authority is very narrow. With Internet Service provider lives i will not have fast lanes or throttle and it will go after that isp. It will not do anything for example, if comcast doubles prices the sec will do nothing what if i esp box something it doesnt like . Frankly they can do nothing about it. Now even more importantly in this is something that really gets lost there is a case right now pending in california the ninth Circuit Court of appeals that will strip the fcc of all oversight of bribing and even if chairman pai reclassifies getting into the weeds but this case is out there by at t so even if chairman pai reclassified the ftc does not have the a 30 if at t wins the case. Lets talk about competition chairman pai put out his own number of Internet Access and what the ftc considers Internet Access 58 of all blocks have a choice between zero or one Broadband Access provider 87 have two or less. If one person has broadband then they all do so nobody knows what it is on a household basis it is not competition it is great indeed be one day 5g will provide that but today it does not do that. There is a lot there where to begin . The ftc can intervene or the department of justice with the sherman act sections one into the sherman act, the clay enact actually to be broad and flexible you dont have to hire lawyers of ftc itself what they do is look for trends and bottlenecks with the giant Public Interest law firm so that which comes out can all be cured but the first six years of the Obama Administration we didnt have a Net Neutrality complete come to fruition. So that begs the question what was broken you were trying to fix with title ii . Because those Market Forces and all that is out there is a powerful deterrent there are some incidents all of which were resolved before title ii and through other that neutrality. The antitrust case takes years to come to fruition there is a Supreme Court precedent that makes them harder for the public to bring these cases. Antitrust gets into competition. You cannot afford to go into the fast lane your investors say we will not invest unless you can get into the fast lane so people can see you then you dont have time for the antitrust case to go to the court. This is why they are so important. So let consumers know what their rights are. And the antitrust law and ftc can do that. Actually they can. And ashley creates common law but again Section Three of the clayton act that is lessening competition that is the claim so they can act quickly because they did not have system of market failure. That is what is lacking under title ii since it to say systematic market failure. So i would call lit mother may i . So you go to present your case. Can the market place experiment . There was a product that would not count against the data cap and then to start the investigation is very popular with the public and t. Vogel says if you need those technical parameters and it will not count against Consumers Bank accounts. But in the meantime with the mother may i there was the interruption of how this could happen it was a question that could have been. Also when free Internet Service was offered to india but you cannot offer free Internet Service to the poorest of the board because that could violate because of the conviction with the markets and the analyst that spend all this money to build a five jesus and we will go slowly from small wireless Internet Service provider through the Service Areas that they wouldnt get as much money to build up the network and really that is the one reason chairman pai does that. But i need to talk about mother may i. Go blocking were throttling or fast lane with paid prior jersey should. That is prohibited. It is not prohibited by antitrust law. You can read your talking points. You have notes. [laughter] you are right. Im not sure this was the best idea on Second Thought but this is about Certain Applications they do not apply to the data cab. We had a problem with at t with the direct tv content to is a dead data cap does not apply. If video was not applied then why have the data cab in the first place . The reason is to create scarcity so we did not have that zero rating but we did not do it just to allow that waiting to happen some like team mobil was fine but at t had its own favorite affiliated content. People have to see and listen to what the i sp says about wall street in washington d. C. Now one publicly traded isp told the securities and Exchange Commission in fact, it said the exact opposite the Sealock Charter and comcast said the stronger regulation just give me in the neck a minute i have to read something from charter of lot post just from last week. While customers may experience the speed upgrade made possible by the ongoing investment of infrastructure technology. To better serve customers every day. Since 2014 charter has invested 21 billion of these critical areas. So they are investing. There is a lot there. With cap ax has fallen 18 and that is from privately Held Companies that is at a crucial time and that is a Global Competitive issue we beat asia at 40. They will be dassin friday of were not careful. And consumers and entrepreneurs are protected by data cab you dont see data caps anymore. But use that as an example of mother may i. Go so go renegotiate your contract. [laughter] we do have vertical integration i talked about this earlier. So at t and direct tv to those sports content they have the incentive to show their content they want their customers whether a Wireless Company or not so thats a rise in wireless they dont want to block the content and that is mutually assured destruction. Because of Market Development then they will kill bid Revenue Streams so the incentives are there. Because of the of vertical integration. One more market pressure. What you are not discussing is the department of justice with this administration that vertically integrated carriers have the incentive to terminate so when charter by time warner or at t bought direct tv now attempting to buy time warner all three times they are concerned there is this incentive and ability to favor their own content goes against all of those records that is with the department of justice n sec. You havent got there yet. Maybe someday. You never knew. But what about the republican side has made that this is a problem looking for a solution or the Net Neutrality cases to justify a title ii . And mickey bin he admits with the at t face time netflix was throttled both by comcast and verizon there are examples. There are not dozens because up until now the fcc chair has believed in the open internet. If there should be a policy statement or rule under title ii 04 one but the first time anybody says no rules or no policies or no authority whatsoever. So they are on their best behavior. I will tell you one thing next week is that six months comcast at t and others will start charging online providers. And that will happen and the proposal to talk about the Innovative NewBusiness Model this is what he is talking about with the a two sided markets this is what the Internet Service providers have wanted to do this and i will not allow them to go over my pipes for free. But this is what they want to do should this go through. Commissioner, as gigi sohn said earlier without strict rules we have i is peas who can be on line seven there are three strong federal statutes very strong Government Agencies with 50 states attorneys general general, lawyers all over the place so many legal arrows. I thank you need to read that. It is in the deceptive trade practice absolutely. So let me read you something talk about revisionist history talking about the Clinton Administration policy plenty of rules that were out there why wasnt it out there before february february 2015 when title ii came along because everything i just said was there as a counterbalance providing the greatest to regulatory system of all time. But how did they get there before 2015 . So let me read you back in 1998 bill clintons second term fcc chairman that became known as the stephens report said it is a matter of Internet Access to have significant consequences for the Global Development to recognize and not presume those remarks are applied to add and two years later it just doesnt make sense to apply 100 year old regulations for the ip networks of today. And we know that markets can move faster. So it has been the bipartisan history where consumers are protected with though win win win scenario with the uncertainty came with title ii when they may remain not decide to implement those it is unfair to chairman pai to say there are no rules. 1998 the companies that provide infrastructure were regulated far more heavily than they are now subject to the full panoply those regulations are not happening now. So those infrastructure providers with many of the same companies here actually had to share their networks with competitors and at that time 7,000 isp we certainly not in that world now. It is a very different world. Excellent point. Dialup internet she talks about the underlying copper wires with Internet Access services. But you do have Tech Companies and Wireless Companies with the fiber and a the routers with a lot of ones and zeros. Is there a role for congress . Yes. Of course. We see this go back and forth so what might happen in 2020 or 2020 for so we ask of clear rules so to protect consumers it will take the sec had of oversight. A preview on Net Neutrality, said gigi sohn where are you now . I am at Georgetown Law Center and several fellowships. Former sec commissioner . Im at the Global Communications law practice and still affiliated with the hudson institute. I am not the only person with more than one fellowship. [laughter] host things you both for being on