Really the founding personalitys the cia. One of most powerful men in the cia from the founding in 1947 until his forced retirement in 1974. So, really a founding father of u. S. Counterintelligence use what type of issues and areas did he work on . Guest angleton used his position as chief of counterintelligence staff to really create a kind of cia within the cia, and so he dabbled everywhere. He was very influential in u. S. Policy toward israel. Created programs of mass surveillance, opening the mail of americans. Involved in the domestic surveillance schemes of the nixon white house, for example. Involved in the early dives the mk up to mind experiment mck up to mind expert. Very involved in u. S. Policy toward cuba. So, this position a lot of cia officers rise through a geographical directorat. A Division Within the cia. Angleton had his fingers in many things. Was hey wellknown personality during the years he was active. Guest he was not. In fact there are stories that pun story i heard one man worked for him four years and never knew who was. Her was very sec secretive in his ways, even within the cia. Host one of the underlying theisms the book is the importance of bureaucratic infighting. That comes up again and again. Guest yes, angleton is a master of that. As an administrator, hes i in a onetoone meeting he was intelligent and his presentations were very compelling. He cultivated allen dulles, richmond helms, cia directors, and maintain his position even with criticism from colleague jive you century rife in the cia as survive in the cia at the level andie think about J Edgar Hoover surprising president s. Did he get close to the president as well or have dirt on people . Guest he was like edgar hoover and was hoover didnt like the cia at all but came to trust acknowledgeton because acknowledgeton supplies him with secret information, and both hoofer and angleton warrers anded in using their knowledge for power. He was probably closest to president nixon, nixon appealed to him most. He thought eisenhower was a bit stock county jfk weak, lbj, crude. Nixon for acknowledgeton was the best prepared present so he likes nixon a lot. Its telling they both fell at the same time, and are and for the same reason, because they were spying on their enemies, obsessive about secrecy, nixon resigns in august of 1974, and angleton is fired in december of 1974. The last chapter of watergate. Host there is a room at the cia named after mr. Ang delton . Guest no. Within the cia angleton is no not good standing. When they sent people agents back to review what had this man done, because it was so secretive this, cia didnt know. And the internal consensus of the cia is negative. He made mistakes and his, as harmed the agency. So he is not honored that much within the agency. Host you say in the book, the ghost, that his legacy is the mass surveillance of americans. Guest yeah. Today we have these powerful systems of malls surveillance that we learned where the nsa can pick up on your email and your telephone calls. Angleton nye in other words the opening of the pioneered the opening of me mail of americans, overseas mail. He picked up the program in 1955. Very small. Open 1 00, 200 letters a year. Want it few years he was opening 10,000 letters a year and on the barest of tomorrow. Really no legal justification, no warrant, no probable cause for opening peoples mail. He ran this program forgot late 50s to early 70s. Opening 10,000 letters a year, copying them, indexing the names, so this really was americas first mass surveillance program. So, you can see it as the progenitor of the systems we have today. He used the same justification for these systems that we hear today from the nsa and the cia. Host another line from the book is that mr. Angleton was not surprised when lee harvey as weld shot jfk oswald shot jfk no might have been surprised when he shot him but knew very well who Lee Harvey Oswald was and one of the most important pieces of the book is that angleton put oswald under close monitoring in november 1959, and for the next four years, wherever oswald went, angleton was informed, in detail, about what he was doing, who we was in touch with, his politics, personal life, foreign travel. So, the story that was fed to the American People after the assassination, that thats guy came out of nowhere and shot the president. That was a consider story to protect angleton. As world had been monitored four years before. Host did the cia know he was in dallas in november of 63. Guest on a week before in the assassination, angletons top aide signed for an fbi roth. Received the report and in that report the new orleans nib Office Record that oswald return from mexico city and was living in the dallas area. So i believe that angleton read the report. The was a voracious consumer of intelligence if believe that angleton knew oswald was in dallas a week before. You have been a reporter for years. Did you go to the cias archive snooze. Them for an interview, and not surprise thing they turned me down. I got this book from interviews with retired cia people, declassified material and archivals at the lbj library, gerald ford library, jfk library and different collections at standford, yale, and boston university. This was an investigative biography. Host if the cia document were available would this be a different book. Guest absolutely. Theres secret stud of angletons careers a chief of counterintelligent theres 12 volumes, each volume 300 to 400 pages. That study which encomp pauses his entire cry is totally classified. The full story of James Angleton is still classified. This as i say in the beginning of the book, the story as best it can be told so far. Host if americans are suspicious about a shadow government running this country, your book gives a little bit of support that, doesnt it . Guest well, when i started this book, nobody talked about the deep state. That was an unknown sprays phrase. Two years later the proficient the United States believes in it and its in headlines all the time. This suspicion us very deep. I wasnt going to look for the deep state but you look at angletons career you see the power that somebody can accumulate, operating within the secret agencies, and it does leapt credence to feared that people secretly manipulating our political system from these positions of secrecy. Angleton sort live did. Host what should we know about his personal life . Where did he live in washington, who were his friends . Guest angleton was a very attractive man personally and people really believed in him. He was a father of three. He lived very modestly in arlington, virginia, off of gleeb road. His would wife was from a wealthy family but there was nothing awe stentake obvious about him himself cared about books and travels and he was tend of hills career an alcoholic and that tended to isolate him, and it also made his thinking rigid and this is what led to his downfall. He laos allies in career cry by the early 1970s. Even when i didnt like him, he was very never an uninteresting man. He was very complex character and always try interesting to try to figure out how he was thinking and made hills way. Host he was in this offers until 1975. Have you talked with people who knew him well . Guest yes. I did. I talked with man named if ram hell the chief of the mass sad and he knew angleton from when acknowledgeton would go to israel, which he did frequently. And hele have i was junior officer who was carrying his brief case and driving car. But helevy knew him well. Talked with a man named petter who was a cia officer who worked with him in the 1950 sunday. Attacked jiff jane rowman, his aide. Bill hood worked for him whoer spur interviewed. This retired cia people who are now dead, provided insight into what was the man like and his wore. Jeff morley spent men years at the washington post. Dot you ride for them anymore. Guest occasionally. Host do have a piece coming newspaper the jfk files in the weapons washington post. The ones revealed in trying to figure out what is new and significant and i have some ideas. Have you found in your questioning through these 28,000 pages or files have you found some new material . Guest yeah. There are somethings that are knew. Its a little bit confuse because some of the stuff has been made public before and people who come to the subject for the first time, think, look at this. Those who have been involved in this know thats not true, but so far there have been some interesting things. But remember, the cia knows what is in there, so theyre not going release the good stuff first. Theyre going release the good stuff last so were still waiting for the most important material to be regees the author is jefferson morley, the book the ghost the secret life of cia spymaster, james jesus angleton. Tonight on after words, Washington Examiner editor on his book, bannon, always the rental interviewed by republican tax representative, louis gulmer. You hasnt sim with steep vaccine bannon. Heard his goals. What odds to duive him for being able to help reach those goal. Guest you want me to be utterly honest or hopeful . I host both. Guest come do agree with a lot of what he says. Think theres i think there is a decent chance because i think bannon believes the electorate has changed. Even in the general election trump was victorious, despite obvious flaws in trump, not a perfect person, trump would admit that himself, and disease spit a lot of controversial they elected him. I believe that bannon believes that already the longing for populism and nationalism is there. He believes its already victorious among the base. It hasnt changed is in washington. This leadership of the republican passion particularly the senate and that is what is drive him. Watch after words tonight at 9 00 p. M. Eastern on booktv