Bourg, strategic development, Wabtec Corporation. Chris matthews, assistant Vice President , Network Control systems, bnsf of railway, and jim derwinski, chief executive officer and executive director of metro. Todays hearing will evaluate progress in implementation positive train control, ptc, and examine potential challenges in meeting the final implementation deadline of december 31, 2020. As recent Committee Hearings have highlighted, ptc is an Important Technology that has the ability to prevent accidents, including overspeed derailments, such as the tragic derailment in dupont, washington in 2017, as well as preventing traintotrain collisions. Ptc enforcement and implementation act, passed by congress and signed into law by president obama in october 2015, required railroads to implement ptc by december 31, 2018, however it allowed a railroad to apply for an extension of up to 24 months if, and only if, a railroad met important milestones. I am pleased to say that under secretary chao and administrator batorys leadership, this framework has been faithfully implemented as of december 31, 2018, all railroads required to implement ptc by the deadline either submitted documentation to show that they met the requirements for system activation or qualified for an extension for up to two additional years to complete full implementation. As we will hear today, many railroads received such an extension. Since that december 2018 deadline, railroads have continued to make progress on ptc implementation. This hearing provides an opportunity for updates on the current status of ptc implementation across the network and the gains that have been made since the end of last year. Witnesses should discuss how freight and Passenger Railroads are implementing ptc and describe the remaining work needed to achieve full implementation. Full ptc implementation requires, among other things, that railroads be interoperable or, in other words, they must be able to operate seamlessly across tracks owned by different railroads. Achieving interoperability requires coordination across the Rail Industry, including between the federal railroad administration, Host Railroads, tenant railroads, vendors and suppliers, and other stakeholders. This undertaking is particularly complex in regions of this country where multiple railroads interact. I hope witnesses will provide an update on interoperability testing and any successes or challenges identified through such testing. I also invite our expert witnesses to discuss any suggestions they have for further facilitating interoperability throughout the network. With the final deadline for implementation less than a year and a half away, todays hearing will help this committee focus on any other issues that require additional attention. For instance, at past ptc hearings, we heard about challenges related to vendors and software, as well as railroads in the early stages of field testing. So, i invite our witness to update the committee on the availability of vendors to support ptc installation and provide testing services. Witnesses might also identify any other challenges to full implementation as the final deadline approaches. I look forward to a robust discussion of the progress of ptc implementation. I thank all of our witnesses for appearing today. And before we recognize senator duckworth or a special introduction, i will recognize Ranking Member cantwell. Thank you, mr. Chairman, and thanks for holding this important hearing on the next steps for positive train control implementation. I want to thank the panel of witnesses and we look forward to hearing your perspective on how railroads will meet that deadline of 2020 to fully implement ptc. The importance of this lifesaving technology was made abundantly clear in my state of washington, december 2017, when the amtrak cascade 501 derailed around a bend near dupont, washington, and fell into the highway before claiming three lives and injuring 65 people. The National Transportation safety board investigation found that ptc would have prevented this tragedy, but sadly this is just one of many ptcpreventable tragedies. In fact, since the National Transportation safety board first recommended positive train control implementation, ptc could have prevented over 150 different crashes, and many fatalities and injuries. So im pleased that chairman wicker shares my commitment to making sure that 2020 is a full ptc implementation deadline, and that this Committee Takes its oversight role seriously when it comes to positive train control. Its unacceptable that in the year of 2019 we still have not fully implemented this important safety, and even when ptc has been fully implemented, according to the federal railroad administration, there will still be miles of tracks that have not been part of ptc. They will be exempted, including over 1,400 miles of track used by amtrak. Both the ntsb and amtrak expressed concerns about this during a Previous Committee hearing last month, and we followed up that hearing to seek more information from fra about the Safety Measures that should be in place where ptc is not operational. This includes speed limit action plans, adequate crew training, and ptc equivalent technologies. I want to thank administrator batory for the fra response sent to my letter, and for your commitment to ensuring safety everywhere that amtrak operates. This will help prevent another dupont, washington accident from happening again. Even with ptc in place, we have to continue to prioritize safety. No technology is a cureall, or a complete replacement for welltrained engineers and conductors who have strong Safety Cultures at a railroad, and for the track maintenance and the structurallysound Railroad Cars that are needed. That said, implementing ptc is truly a major step forward for safety, and i know it has been a Long Time Coming to get where we are today. Railroads, and especially Commuter Railroad systems, have faced many challenges, so i look forward to the opportunity to hear from the witnesses about the steps to have ptc fully implemented everywhere, and to make sure it is required on our National Rail system. And, look forward to asking specific questions about that implementation and the 1,400 miles of track that wont be covered. Thank you, mr. Chairman. And now i turn to our friend, senator duckworth, for a special introduction. Thank you, mr. Chairman. It is my pleasure to introduce meca cl and executive director mr. Jim derwinski has success led the Organization Since 2017. Every weekday metro operates newly seven upgrades that transport nearly 290,000 passengers. Metra provide service to and from Downtown Chicago with 242 stations on 11 lines covering more than 1200 tracks, miles of track. Physics incident experts at the complex person is mentally one of the largest and most complex Commuter Rail systems in the nation while squeezing every drop of value out of the limited real estate resources that metra receives. A few months ago jim invite me to tour the 47th st. Coach and diesel shop and watch its highly skilled mechanics and electricians install, test and finetune ptc components aboard the rolling stock. Jenna explained how to able to stretch every dollar just a little bit further by doing much of the work inhouse. It was there that he gained a real and deep appreciation for the complexity of ptc. Metra has been nearly 215 million on positive train control efforts while receiving less than 50 million in federal grants or supported efforts. Metra expects its implementation to cost between 350 350 400 million, with an additional 1529 per year and increased operating costs. While these costs are a challenge unconfident metra customers are getting the most bang for the buck with jim at the helm. Welcome, jim. Angst of being here today. We stand here a lot from you and i thank you, mr. Chairman. I yield back. Thank you, senator. We now will proceed to hearing summaries of five minutes or less in each of the witnesses. We will begin with administrator batory. You are welcomed. Good afternoon, all. Chairman wicker, Ranking Member cantwell, and members of the committee. Thank you for the opportunity to testify about one of the fra highest priorities, railroads full implication of fra certified and interoperable ptc systems as soon as possible and by december 31, 2020. Fra commends the industry towards notable progress to date. As of march 31, ptc was in operation on 83 of the 50,000 miles subject to the statutory mandate. Nevertheless, railroads still complete extensive work in the next 70 months including activating ptc on the remaining required mainline and achieving interoperability with tenant railroads. Notably, railroads reported the full implement ptc on the record mainlines in 2018. 2018. The other 37 railroads request an alternative schedule which the statutory mandate required. Fra to approve if the railroad qualified by law. As of march 5, fra approved all applicable alternate schedules will be for the statutory ninetyday deadline. Fra continues to actively monitor railroads progress including the reports do today. Preliminary reports indicate ptc was in operation on 87 of the required mainlines nationwide as of june, 2019 including 91 of the Class One Railroads required mainlines. Post Commuter Railroads were conducting Revenue Service demonstration or operating ptc on 37 of their required miles as of june. A 12 increase since quarter one. Amtrak a Host Railroad on and off the northeast Quarter Report ptc is an operation on 99. 8 of its required mainlines. In addition, six other railroads must intimate ptc on the mainlines that host Passenger Rail service. One class has been operating its full implement implemented ptcm since 2015 at the other five are conducting field testing. Currently, fra is directing its focus to the ptc mandated mainline that have a high concentration of host and tenant railroads including Commuter Railroads with significant remaining work. On july 12 i initiated not less than monthly meetings with executive leadership of amtrak and the Commuter Railroads that operate on the northeast corridor, excuse me, or their own ptc required mainline in the northeast. As this committee is aware, interoperability remains the primary challenge to railroads full implementation of ptc by december 31, 2020. Approximately 101 tenant railroads operate on ptc mandated mainlines, because railroads operate on multiple Host Railroads there are 227 host tenant relationships where interoperability must be achieved. As of march 31, 17 of the of the ten railroads achieve interoperability and 38 were conducting testing. Since may ive met with leadership 61 of the 71 freight nonclass one tenant railroads to discuss next steps for interoperability. Fra also hosts four additional collaborations over the next 70 months focusing on best practices to achieve the ultimate statutory deadline. Railroads continue to cite the ptc vendors and suppliers are resource constrained. In part due to increased demand as the deadline approaches and certain railroads late engagement. After being confirmed as administrator, i met with the ten major vendors and suppliers to stress the Critical Role they play. This year i sent letters that underscore issues that require some suppliers immediate resolution, including the recall of the equipment due to manufacturing defects and capacity limitation hindering railroads interoperability. Fra continues to engage with vendors and suppliers as they are integral to the railroads ability to meet the deadline. In addition to technical assistance, dot has awarded 2. 6 2. 6 billion in Grant Funding and Loan Financing to support ptc implementation representing 18 of the 15 billion Industry Cost for implementation. Specifically, 42 of of the 4. 1 billion estimated importations costing the Commuter Railroads. The industry also estimates Operation Maintenance cost will be substantial with aar citing hundreds of millions of additional dollars per year in maintenance and operation costs. Fra appreciates congress prioritization of safety and the continued funding it provides for ptc. Fra will continue to work with all stakeholders to open sure that railroads full development ptc systems quickly and safely as possible. If any railroad fails to meet the deadline, fra plans to enforce statutory mandate by assessing the maximum terms offered by congress. Thank you and im here to answer your question. Thank you very much. Director. Is good afternoon chairman wicker, Ranking Member cantwell and members of the committee. Thank you for the opportunity to provide an update on Passenger Railroads implementation and operates oversight of ptc, which is when the most promising technological advances in real safety in decades. Over the years we have reported a on railroads progress in preventing ptc which has been a complex and lengthy process involving nearly all major rail lines animals every aspect of railroads operations. While railroads were carting of ptc by last december, fra was like to grant extensions up to december 2020 if railroads met specific requirements. While four four relative full implement ptc, the others continued to work to achieve full implementation. Railroads progress in terms of installing equipment and testing, but much work particularly with respect to interoperability remains to full implement ptc. Today i will focus on two main issues railroads implementation progress and remaining challenges, and fra approach to meeting the 2020 deadline. Turning to the of limitation update, since december many railroad support making progress on testing and limitation of the own ptc systems. Six railroads reported in fomenting ptc compared only one commuter being in this stage in december. However, 11 river to board they remain in field testing which is an early stage of implementation. Regarding interoperability, as of march 11 of the 31 Host Railroads that must have interoperable ptc systems reported they achieve interoperability with a least one of the tenant railroads. Collectively, of the two and 27 unique host tenant relationships that require interoperability can railroads have achieved this for only 17 of these relationships. Turning now to implementation challenges, in response to question her most railroads reported vendor and Software Issues were still a significant problem. These issues are more acute now because as 2020 deadline nears, last time remains to address these issues and associated delays. And the limited supply of vendors and high demand for services continues to pose problems. More than half of the railroads also reported that interoperability was a major challenge and can be complicated by Software Issues and coordinating host and tenant schedules. For example, one railroad said Certain Software functionality still have to be developed, tested and implement it to address reliability issues that a cause system disruptions. Interoperability challenges also differ across systems and geographic areas and can be take a difficult and dense urban areas like the northeast or chicago where railroads are at different stages of implementation. In the northeast eight Commuter Railroads, amtrak and most freight i have many a form of the trento system on at least a portion of equipment and track. In some cases to make different ptc assistance will be operate concurrently which adds to the complexity of interoperability. Moving on to my second point, fra plans to meet the 2020 deadline. Fra can to provide assistance and support to railroads on interoperability and the Testing Process but workload challenges for the agency process. Fra will continue to pay substantial workload through 2020. Overseeing railroads ptc invitation everything documents including lengthy safety plans. As such it remains important for fra to prioritize resources based on risk as we recommended last year. While fra has made improvements come the extended 2020 deadline for full ptc implementation is less than 18 months away and fra to railroads have substantial work to complete and challenges to address before that deadline. Going forward, fra needs to transition to overthink ptc as a routine part of routine operations after the 2020 deadline. Railroads would will need to transition from implementation largely done by contractors, to operating in making their ptc systems. Therefore, december 2020 represents that on the deadline for full ptc implementation but also a point after which railroads and fra will face a a new operational and oversight environment. Mr. Chairman, this concludes my statement and i would be pleased to answer questions that you are members of the committee may have. Thank you very much. Mr. Bourg. Good afternoon, chairman wicker, Ranking Member cantwell and all the members of this committee. Thank you for holding this important hearing on next steps for ptc implementation. My name is robert bork and im Vice President of strategy and growth Wabtec Corporation to it is a privilege to represent wabtec and appear before you today along with two of our earlier ptc parkers bnsf and metra. Going back to our origins in 1869 as a westinghouse air brake company, safety has been and remains a core mission for wabtec. Supporting our freight and passenger customer railroad commitments to make the december ptc implementation is a foremost priority. At the outset i thought it might be helpful to note that is currently approved by the fra and applied by the railroads, ptc functions as a safety overlay. That is, ptc is assigned to enforce existing railroad signal indications and other operating works. This means ptc presently serves as a supplementary safety assurance measure supporting existing Railroad Safety practices and procedures. Wabtec role in ptc built on her interoperable electronic Chain Management system which is deployed on freight and Passenger Railroads operating outside the electrified northeast quarter. Wabtec is a hardware and Software Supplier for ietms pt on board and segments. We serve as as a system integrr for a number of Passenger Railroads. To enable railroads in fomenting ietms to be the rs rsi 82018 requirements, wabtec manufacturer delivered more than 23,000 on board ietms systems. Wabtec also felt new Customized Software applications for the back office that interface to make and some cases replaced existing railroad backlog systems. Our focus on enabling our customers to be the december 31, 2020 ptc deadline is twofold. First, wabtec is committed to meeting a railroad customer requirements for ptc interoperability. Specifically we released Software Updates that enable increased track file size and were working toward another update this fall that will double the onboard capacity to handle train bulletins. These and other planned Software Upgrades along with even closer stakeholder collaboration are intended to enable our class when customers to continue to plan for completing interoperability and enabling more efficient ptc operations. Second, we are committed to delivering for our Passenger Railroad customers where wabtec has a majority as a major System Integration will. Building on our experience across the Railroad System including our early work with metrolink in southern california, the first Passenger Railroad to complete interoperability testing and receive fra ptc certification, we are supporting customer agencies to complete ptc Revenue Service demonstration, achieve fra approval of ptc safety plans, and validate host and tenant ptc interoperability. In summary, wabtec is dedicated to fulfilling its commitments to enable full ietms interoperability across the real system. We are teaming closer with our customers to continually improve ptc performance, and were working directly with our Passenger Railroad customers where wabtec has a late System Integration role. Looking to the future, ptc has an ongoing command for all tickled and work and investment will continue past 2020. New Digital Technologies will enable even greater safety and operational benefits. Wabtec looks for department with our customers and of the Rail Industry stakeholders to advance this vision for the future. Thank you for this invitation to testify, and i would be pleased to answer any questions that you have. Thank you, sir. Mr. Matthews. Good afternoon, chairman wicker, Ranking Member cantwell, and members of the committee. Thank you invited me today to provide an update on our recommendation of positive train control. Ptc is an important component of bnsf overall Risk Reduction program that has resulted in meaningful progress toward our vision of your accidents and injuries. Safety is most important thing we do at the railroad. Our ongoing Risk Reduction efforts combined aromas Capital Investment program, train that reinforces safe operating practices and maintenance of a strong employee Safety Culture that also increasingly involves the filament and deployment of new technology. Bnsf has invested nearly 65 billion in private capital back into the railroad since 2000 and plans to invest more than 3. 5 billion in 2019 at the railroads Physical Plant is in the best condition in its history. Ptc is important Safety Department and also one of the most significant costly and complex technologies that the Rail Industry has ever deployed. As the Rail Industry deploys ptc and other important technological advancements, we were working closely with the fra to support moving towards a regulatory paradigm that will allow for leveraging our ptc investment and support future innovation. Today the nsf is operating ptc on all 88 federally mandated subdivisions covering more than 11,500 route miles and 80 of our freight volume. Weve also equipped interoperating ptc on nine nonmandated subdivisions providing an additional an additional 2000 miles of ptc protection. We are running more than 1000 trains daily and ptc Revenue Service and it run more than 2. 5 million trips with ptc. Bnsf has trained more than 21,000 employees to operate and maintain ptc trains and equipment which involves not Just Technology but changes to the work processes for operations teams and many other departments. The volume of ptc trains running on our network demonstrate our people know how to operate and support the system. Moving forward, bnsf has three major focus is to continue refining and driving Continuous Improvement with ptc. Ensuring reliability, fully integrating ptc into our train operations, and achieving full interoperability. We are closely with our vendors to refine key components of the system and ensure the necessary capacity, longevity and reliability to support our operations. Bnsf is also actively working on interoperability with our suppliers and each of the railroads with which we need to be interoperable to identify their needs and provide technical and operational assistance along with services such as back Office Hosting and crew training as needed. Bnsf has now achieved interoperability with ten of the 23 tenant railroads that will operate ptc on our networks that includes all Passenger Railroads where the runon bnsf as well as several short line railroads. Last month we begin running ptc trains with the Union Pacific r largest interchange partner and the first class one Freight Railroad with which weve achieved interoperability. Bnsf will be able to fully test interoperability upon completion of ongoing effort with the remaining class when railroads. This is a time and labor intensive process involving weeks and in some cases months of preparation and testing with each railroad. Ptc interoperability relies heavily on the reliable flow of accurate information. The amount of data that will be transmitted between railroads and the various components that comprise the ptc system is significant. We are working closely with wabtec to ensure Upcoming Software releases will accommodate the amount of data required for full nationwide interoperability and testing to prove that out will be ongoing. Bnsf and the Rail Industry havee tremendous progress on ptc implementation but theyre still significant work to do in the coming months. A highly reliable system is important not only for the safety benefits it delivers but also essential to efficiently meeting the Transportation Needs of her customers. Venus will continue work with all stakeholders to meet the goal of implementing an interoperable ptc system as congress in vision. Thank you for the opportunity to be today. I would be happy to answer any questions you might have. Thank you, sir. Mr. Derwinski. Good afternoon, chairman wicker, Ranking Member cantwell and members of the esteemed committee and especially senator Tammy Duckworth from illinois. My name is jim derwinski, ceo and executive director of metra as sir duckworth. Oh. Im on the board of directors, and an chairman of the newly formed Commuter Rail coalition which was formed to bring a a distinct voice of Commuter Rail to advocate each unique needs to legislators and i get it done pleased to have this opportunity to speak with you about positive train control implementation and next steps for both metra and discussed in the body. First i like to provide background on Commuter Rail industry and our system. There are 31 active Commuter Rail systems in the United States that deliver over 500 million passenger trips annually and provides the safest form of surface transportation for committed. In the metropolitan region we serve our services for economic developing, tax base growth, we reduce congestion and emissions. Compared to comment on the highway we get back valuable time to our customers, time which they can get productive as it once or they can catch up on rest. Both activities not possible behind the wheel of an automobile. Commuter rail offers customers the ability to access more affordable housing. As they still be able to come downtown to work and be there safe and on tiger Commuter Railroads are in existence for two basic reasons. Freight railroads in the 1980 and beyond one able to sustain operations without great loss of the citizen state that invite the public necessity for commuter and begin funding the subsidies. These commit a railroads are now known as legacy system. Second on the new systems which cities and states have identified the need for commuter in the region and if we invested heavily in commuter for the benefits provided to those cities. Roddick in Commuter Railroads face major funding challenges. Our industry has been working diligently to install ptc but the federal safety mandate has but great strain on a limited dollars for state of good repair and capital project. Legacy commuter systems like metra face unique capital challenges as work to maintain and upgrade our aging infrastructure. Since its creation 1984, metra is going to be the largest Commuter Railroad in the country based on track miles and the fourthlargest taste son ridership metra has 11 separate lines. Are trains operate over our own infrastructure as well as infrastructure owned by our freight partners. Where both a host and a tenant railroad in chicago. Metras primary goals operate nearly 700 trains that run daily throughout our system with our partners. Intermingled with approximately 700 additional freight and passenger trains. Ptc of the petition will further enhance the safety of our network, simultaneously we will work to sustain our legacy system that includes capital components dating back well into the 1800s. A proxy half of all trips made from suburban chicago to downtown are on our network. Despite our complex complexity and our network and are were pleased to report since our inception weve been able to maintain and 93 ontime performance or better. It is with these realities in mind i provide an update to the committee on ptc supplementation status, challenges we face a potential next steps for both congress and industry. In 2018 we met all the statutory requirements for the extension, interoperability right now is one of our biggest challenges. Not only for metra but for the entire rail network in chicago. Ptc must work for any train on any track even the different railroads have different ptc sisson, different operating rules. In chicago there are 14 railroads working together. While admitting ptc we have to run it through some, we run into unforeseen challenges wouldnt set with hardware and software and a force us to modify or implementation schedule. And limited supply network include Technical Support has further exacerbated these issues for metra. Our suppliers wabtec and we share these resources with the majority of the railroads in the United States. Since the conversion of our dispatching system last year, we are on our 31st Software Upgrade in one year. Despite setbacks metra will meet the deadline. Of the alternative schedule and documentation. We must have increased timely support from our supplier network. This will help us build back in our schedule loss contingency we originally built in the schedule, lost because of the setbacks. There must be enough Resources Available not just for metra but the entire industry. Positive train control will increase safety of our system for nearly 290,000 passengers that we give trips to everyday, and it didnt work on time. However, utc limitation and its expected cost to maintain it put additional stresses on her limited capital and state a good repair budget. Ptc insulation is affected to cost metra over 400 million originally estimated at 75 million. That is equivalent to 2. 5 years of our federal formula funding. Original estimates were based on what was done at the time, and as you can see we didnt know enough. An estimate of 15 20 million is what our operating costs will be each year, and each Commuter Railroad will have to bear its perpetual operating cost. While were grateful to congress for recognizing the burden of ptc, we ask congress to increase the federal formyl formula funo help support that. Additional we encourage congress to great Commuter RailGrant Program that will provide some relief to address both ptc operations and maintenance costs. Congress will have several opportunity is coming up. I want to you for inviting us to testify. I look for to educate equations you may have. I also invite the members of this committee to come out, see, touch and feel ptc in chicago, the most complicated network in the u. S. Thank you. Cant wait. But, mr. Derwinski, youre going to make ontime. Curly were skilled to make evident on time. We do not need any more hiccups in the road. What we need is to have the software be delivered without any bugs, and when he does resources at hand on a daily basis. Mr. Batory, he said there are different ptc systems. How did that how did we get to this place . Thank you for that question. The Class One Railroad community, the leadership that was in place when this became law, it actually preceding law with conversation that was going on, they demanded among themselves standardization. Thats why you have a system thats called ietms thats represented across the United States. What was that again . Its called ietms and its a system that is across the United States among all the classroom railroads, ending at the short lines and regionals, they have to have it. It was with the Commuter Railroads that there was solicitation of the fra to agree to alternate systems other than ietms. I cant speak from fact because i i was a part of the decisionmaking process, but knowing, hindsight is 2020 i think was a leadership air in the commuter agency arena, and im available to make more comment later today insofar as the severity of it in certain parts of the country. But it was an error . I present opinion, i think they couldve done better and brought about standardization. Okay. Mr. Derwinski says theres a number of Things Congress will have an opportunity to do. To address the unique needs of Commuter Railroads. Consider creating a dedicated funding stream, a number of items listed on page four of his testimony. Mr. Batory and other members of the panel would you like to respond to these suggestions . Well, as far as responding to money amounts, it would not be appropriate for me to come if you will, site money amounts per se. Tell us what you like for us one thing i would like to say about metra, and it was mentioned and senator duckworth remarks, and i said this time and time again throughout my career. Its not how much money you spend. Its how wisely you spend it. And metra is a classic example of that on how wisely they spend their money. When they see the total spectrum of money being spent among different railroads, you kind of shake your head and say, whats going on here . A lot of it has to do with the attentiveness of the leadership in the corner office. Metra is kind of a poster child insofar as being a Commuter Railroad that spends its money wisely. Thats not to say the others dont, but i think they do an extremely good job. Anyone else want to respond to ways that congress can help . Mr. Chairman, i fully support his position. I think they should be additional funding. My perspective is that some of the funding challenges have led us to this compression of the schedule at this point. But notwithstanding, there would be an investment for ongoing maintenance of the system. Once we achieve the 2020 deadline, the will be an ongoing need for operational funding to support the maintenance and, therefore, i fully behind his position of additional federal funding in that area. Director fleming, are they going to be some disappointments after this next 18 months expires . You know, i think were at a crossroads. Im cautiously optimistic. I think weve heard on the panel theres been a lot of progress. I think those are taking this very seriously but that being said will have four that of crossed the finish line. We have 11 that are still in the early stages, and with some pretty complex hurdles to get through. You know, whether its the limited number of vendors, whether its the Software Issues. You know, the acses system, you have different issues. I think you also have the big hurdle of interoperability. Trying to work through that can particularly in different parts of the country. I think we are at a crossroads. I think a lot of work has happened, but if there continues to be Software Issues, reliability issue, if theyre still vendor issues, fra has a lot on its plate. Some of the safety plans are a thousand pages. Theyre trying to create a template to tide of some standardization but thats not going to work with every ptc system. So how is that going to all plays out . I think were at a critical juncture. I think, six months for now i think we will be able to take a closer pulse to where things are. Sounds like we may have some disappointments in 2020. I hope not. We are doing everything to keep that from happening. Senator cantwell. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Mr. Batory, you know i sent a letter after the ntsb findings and Lessons Learned from amtrak 51 derailment in the state of washington. And the fra response to my letter states quote, fra investigation of the amtrak 501 action found that cheney for assigned crew members did not comply with federal recognition and was a contributor factor in the cause of the accident and fras enforcement action is ongoing. I dont want to talk about the ongoing investigation, but can you explain how it efficient crewmember training standard was able to comply with fras existing regulation, and what are you doing to improve those regulations . As far as what transpired that morning and when i learned of it, just for my career experts, i shake my head in dismay. To think that youd have an inaugural train with an engineer, regardless of what level of training he had of proficiency not have its just unprecedented. We dont do that in the Railroad Industry. So there was a failure in management at about that to happen. On top of that, there was a contactor i was trying to get qualified on the territory. So now we have somebody thats not familiar with the territory, an engineer that supposedly was qualified on the territory, to mitigating backandforth at the early hours of the morning. And when i saw the video, in cam video and also the audio, i just shook my head in dismay and said, that should never have happened. It was like the perfect storm. What transpired there that morning was something that should never have happened. So what should we do to update our rules if youre saying like we did what should we do to make sure that amtrak creates that culture . The rules are there. You can white rules you can write rules and people responsible were not could go sants of what they were supposed to enforce or if they were cognizant they were lacks in fulfilling their duty. Do you mean people with amtrak . Yes. What should fra do about that. We had a discussion what may or may not get down in 2020. What should we do to address this issue . With that theres a Lesson Learned and Richard Anderson and his organization was new and realized theyve done a lot in improving the operating department and the culture there in addition to adding in, getting a rise with the engineers theyre supposed to, getting more training both in the field as well as in simulators. Richard has done an extremely good job in addressing that. So youre confident that adequate safety is it in place at amtrak . I feel very comfortable with everything that they have done as a result of that Lesson Learned. And so you think theres adequate safety there now . Safety never sleeps and never ends. Youve got to keep on top of it constantly and it doesnt matter who is at the helm, okay, youve got to stay on top of it. People dont come to work to have an accident. That engineer didnt want that to happen, but if you listen to what he said on that audio, okay, its scary. They should never have left. So im very look, i get cultures are hard to legislate. You have to create these Safety Standards and you do have to make sure theyre implemented. So, from fras perspective i want to know whether you think that everything fra has done to date, youve done everything you can to make sure that thats implemented . Yeah, i think the railroads, first, are the responsible parties and the men and women who lead and maintain and operate those railroads, its fras responsibility to do a check, doublecheck and make sure that everything is being fulfilled. As i often share with people, and i think this is a good news story even though its one too many, as far as headon collisions, which were the most pronounced type of collision that the Railroad Industry had, i may have shared earlier, there was a total of 68 headon collisions in 1978. And the industry today, and one is one too many, but last year we only had one and that was in casy, North Carolina between csx and amtrak. Were definitely going to be keeping the record open. If theres anything else they want to continue well look at implementation of n. T. S. B. On this accident. And if i can, i would certainly afford myself to your staff to give more information, both a request, as well as i have more. Thank you. Senator gardner. Thank you, i believe its senator duckworth next . Senator duckworth. Senator duckworth, go ahead. Ill take it. If its a jump ball, im going for it. Thank you. I want to commend the efforts of operators for testing and interoperability. Railroads that are still working to implement ptc has so far demonstrated progress towards the december 2020 deadline. Youll continue to keep us apprised of progress, is that correct . Yes. Thank you. Mr. Derwinski, as your testimony suggests, metro made the tough choice to make early investments in ptc and i saw that when i came out to visit the yard. Even after ptc is implemented, theyve estimated 15 to 20 million in additional annual operating costs. Can you scratch below the surface on ideas you highlighted on your testimony to provide operators relief from the tremendous ptc investments youve incurred . Yes, i think with support from the congress from the program, just an expansion of the program and grants available there, the discretionary grants are hard so weve been asking congress to consider a Commuter RailFunding Source in the future as they look at the fast tax reauthorization and anytime we can get increased federal formula funding 5307 and 530 planning is one of our biggest things whenever we have ebbs and flow in funding. We can actually take ptcs and look at the next wave of Safety Initiatives that the Rail Industry can undertake. Would you want that funding to be more of a multiyear type of funding then . Is that what youre asking for . Instead of a single year, five year, that sort of time frame . The longer the funding, the better for the industry. That helps us with planning. Thank you. Im troubled to hear about Software Glitches in the supply chain. Mr. Derwinski, can you tell us how it could impact the timeline for rail operators. Every time theres a glitch what exactly happens to you, to metro . What ends up happens, we beta test everything in labs. In the labs certain things are able to be smoked out, i would say. Once we get it out on the railroad and we actually start interoperating with the other trains, even on that track, not even on another railroad, we sometimes find operational glitches, things that werent found earlier. Were held handcuffed to the people that can actually write the softwear and they work on Software Updates and that he then have to be brought back to us, tested and redeployed out in the field and in a network like chicago where were having 1400 trains that will eventually work in that tight little area, we are continually always finding new challenges that just didnt exist in other areas of deployment in the country. How do those glitches get shared with other Rail Networks out there, other systems . Are you in contact with others or goes through the Software People . How does that happen . They have the availability to have only the latest revision of Software Available to everybody. As they come out with the latest revision, its not just fixing problems on our network, it might be fixing problems in los angeles, seattle and depending where the operators are at. Its called by the Itc Committee and so eventually theres only one software out there. If theres a glitch and the software keeps going and doesnt get do you reach out to los angeles, hey, were seeing this problem, what are you doing, that sort of thing so youre not out there trying to trouble shoot on your own with the Software Company . We have a great number of people, and were in constant communication with our peers and because of the complexity of chicago, the chicago Deployment Group meets every two weeks and we have constant conversations and lab techs hold meetings with us to chat about the latest and greatest thing in what is happening and what lessons have been learned elsewhere. Great. Id like to ive heard by a number of operators, that are concerned about the Software Updates. Can you discuss the challenges of update and how it might effect the ptc testing and interoperability . So, senator, the magnitude of the issue in chicago is significantly greater than elsewhere. Weve had challenges in chicago. I believe that weve turned a corner. Several of the subdivisions within metro are now within demonstration and are performing well. Weve had our share of challenges, but based on the progress that we made and the interoperability testing done elsewhere in the country, i have confidence that weve overcome the most significant problems. Certainly, a Lesson Learned is there cant be enough testing, and it also requires a lot of collaboration with the Itc Committees that mr. Derwinski mentioned as well as our other railroad customers to make sure that we stay in front of the problems before they cause an operational impact. Thank you. Im over time. I yield back. Okay. Thank you, senator duckworth. Let me just say that during my time as chairman of this committee i held numerous oversight hearings on the implementation of positive train control and i appreciate the chairmans and the Ranking Members continued oversight over this very important issue. Under administrative vitoris, implementation of ptc and overcoming changes, particularly those with achieving interoperability as we approach the december 2020 deadline. Aside from the 42 railroads subject to the mandate, im interested to hear more about the progress of dozens of short line railroads implementing ptc and tenants. Short lines have service in south dakota connecting facilities like Grain Elevators and ethanol plants to class one main lines. Im wondering if you could provide an update on status of ptc status long shortline railroads and those with Host Railroads . Thank you, senator, for those kind remarks. As far as the shortline regional community, when we finally were able to get a list put together from the Short Line Association and then the ar, we consolidate it and basically got rid of the redundancy. We came up initially with 76 railroads, of which 41 were independent and the balance were associated with conglomerates. Weve met with 61 of those railroads so far facetoface or on Conference Calls and today, i have not yet learned of any shortline or Regional Railroad that has basically thrown its hands up and said we cant get this done by the deadline of next year. The two i think so this, as far as challenges that theyre faced with, are primarily financial, one is the cost of equipping their locomotive. When you realize that the cost is probably 100,000 plus per locomotive and some of the low motives operate and purchase for the same amount of money at one time, so thats a hard pill to swallow. The second one thats emerging though is the amount of insurance that theyre having to take on now, as a result of underwriters reviewing their operation and their requirement to have ptc. So you know, here is visualize this, a railroad that handles maybe, 10, 15 cars a day and it has to make an investment of 100,000. They have the locomotive pull the 10 or 15 cars a day and then finds out that its insurance premiums are going up as well. Its hard. Its something that needs to be addressed, okay . And fra does not have the position to address it. Its through the Short Line Association and its membership and i think the Rail Industry network as a whole needs to recognize this because we are an integrated industry and we interchange traffic every day among all of the railroads regardless of sides. Just to the followup, mr. Mathews being an assessment leader and implementation ptc. Can you explain what youre doing on your tracks short line to achieve interoperability. Thank you. We take an approach with our short line tenants that we would work with. Over of the hundreds of short lines that work with our system, we work with them to understand the moves on ptc territory and whether or not we can protect that with alternate means other than ptc, speeds at yards and interchange points. Weve taken the large list, down to 16 short lines, right now five ever interoperable and we work closely to help them with training, in some cases, back Office Hosting, in some cases helping to equipping locomotives through us. Its a case by case basis on the short lines. Can you speak to what some of the challenges are in achieving interoperability with equipment and particularly high volume and numerous interchanges and in response to some things said regarding those resource issues and how you all are going to deal with that . Thank you, senator. Yes, so with regard to interoperability we did have a recent challenge with regard to capacity in the onboard system and file size and web tech received one of the letters that the administrator talked about highlighting the importance of solving that issue. We worked with our Industry Partners with the nsf and with others and we have implemented Software Changes that address that. We implemented a partial change initially that provided some release relief and we do have a Software Release scheduled for september that will fully address it and our Railroad Partners have agreed that that will address it. With respect to resources, it has been a challenge in the industry. Theres a lot of specialized operational knowledge and Software Knowledge that goes into supporting this system. I personally believe that were over the hump with respect to this, but the ongoing maintenance of the system will be a challenge and retaining those people and assuring that we keep the pipeline with qualified resources that understanding the application and Technical Skills to maintain the application and were highly focused on that. My time is expired. Senator blumenthal. Thank you, senator. Thank you all for being here today, as you may know, ptc has been an abiding issue for me, a challenge that i think our nation must fulfill. Were celebrating 50 years since the day we put a man on the moon. If we cant implement ptc, it is due to a lack of will, not technological knowledge, and certainly not resources because the nation has the resources and i hope none of you disagree with those two basic propositions. The record will note, no one is disagreeing. Id like to ask you about a recent report april 18th, 2019, in the connecticut post about hundreds of defective Antenna Assembly positive Safety System which were recalled, quote, threatening further delays in an already delayed project. It it reference to 1200 scanner assemblies that allow trains that says to communicate with a central system, recalled over defective parts. The system evidently was made by siemens. Are you familiar with this issue . Yes, sir, i am. Do you know whether that delay will threaten metro north compliance with the 2020 deadline . I certainly at this juncture think theres an opportunity to recover that lost time as a result of that Quality Control issue, but im not here to make a statement of fact that were going to make the finish line because of all the territories in the United States, the one that has my most of my attention is the eight railroads that represent the northeast corridor. Im going to ask you generally about that corridor, but focusing on the moment on this issue, do you think that siemens ought to be debarred. Thats an excellent question, ill leave that up to the commuter agencies. I know what theyve done with chairman foy. Its an alternative that others can look at, but this juncture my full concentration is looking at what we can do today to make the system implemented by the deadline. Im not going to ask you for definitive answers, but would you get back to me at some point in the next week or so with an estimate on whether or not metro north is going to make that most definitely. I will be with the leadership on monday of next week when i return from new york i will reach out to your office. Thank you. Let me ask you about the northeast corridor. Whats your level of confidence that those systems will meet the december 2020 deadline . In respect to the time that we have here and you can get back to me on the record if that would be i will, but basically here is what we have. We have eight railroads on the northeast corridor that operate a network. If any one railroad doesnt operate properly out there and has a functional system, it has a domino effect in so far as the service impact. If they dont have an operational system, the most railroad isnt going to allow the tenant to be out there because of the fines and risk. We brought the leadership together and we decided we were meeting once a month, most of its in new york facetoface and its strictly the leadership, not the technical people. They meet all the time and talk, but those technical people need support and leadership and thats why i decided to amalgamate this group and see what we can. Too many people. The risk is that the entire northeast corridor could be crippled transportationwise . It has especially in the metropolitan area, going up towards connecticut, it has a domino effect. You want seamless interoperability and you want everybody equipped out there. Given that threat i would appreciate your coming back to me after the leadership meeting, as soon as possible to give me an update and obviously not just me, but the entire dmunt because i think the nor east corridor is not just about any single state or about that region, it is about the whole country and the academic effect, catastrophic and disasterous economic effect that the failure to meet at that deadline could have on our nation as a whole. You have my word, ill be in your office. Thank you, and part of the issue with disciplining the vendors as ms. Fleming points out, is a limited number of them and the fact that debarring or disqualifying one sounds easier than it is in terms of the effect on meeting those deadlines, am i correct, ms. Fleming . Yes. I mean, this Everyone Needs these from everything from equipment to helping with Software Glitches, to helping with interoperability and securing Wireless Communications. You know, this is the limited pool. And at this point these types of slippages affect the railroads ability to move to that next critical stage, but at the same time they have that expertise and i think its critical that everyone kind of do their part in order for us to finish that and to make that 2020 deadline. I dont know what the answer is, but whether its in the midwest or the northeast, there needs to be a very aggressive and proactive intervention by federal authorities, make sure the deadline is met, which is required by law, but also that the potential market power or monopolistic power of the companies doesnt put your railroads at their unfair mercy and ultimately consumers in the entire country. And, you know, you raised important issues about the northeast corridor. Software is provided by multiple vendors, still have to work through and secure the Wireless Communications and you have 20 boundaries you have to work through. Its very complex and these are pretty significant channels. The northeast corridor is something weve highlighted as well in addition to chicago. Its two of the trickiest parts of the country for different reasons. Well, i appreciate you, also, senator stone for his leadership on this issue over the many years. Weve had a lot of conversation and hes provided a lot of leadership and i appreciate it. Thank you, senator blumenthal. Senator, if i could share one remark. Yes. In regards to northeast corridor and i asked for this yesterday, just to put it in perspective. If you look at the equipment configurations, theyre required to support two different types of ptc systems on the northeast corridor. Theres 40 different options among eight different railroads involving seven different vendors. Thats the demand thats put on the supply industry and keep in mind, some of these Commuter Railroads tonight can initiate their engagement until around 2015 and the law was passed in 2008. And so, im not defending the supply industry, but theres a little bit of blame on both sides of the equation here. Behind this, weve got to figure out how to get this thing fixed, sooner rather than later because were behind the eight ball as far as 37 in the commuter industry as a hole. When you go to chicago, its i atm s, its basically one system and thats not to say its going to be easy, but as i often tell the people in chicago after serving four different corporate flags over a third of my career, that can be chicagos worst blizzard or snowstorm if they dont get ptc right. I want to avoid any unfairness and i apologize, senator thune for going over in time. The apollo project involved 400,000 people across the United States, the companies that made the spacesuit, the rocket that carried the astronauts and somehow put it altogether. America can do it, other countries have done it and i understand the complexity and the challenges, but you know, ive been a longtime advocate of avoiding any further delay and at this point im very doubtful about any of the excuses for the delay. Easy for me to say here on the dias, but i hope that you all will do your best. Thank you. Thank you. Senator p i believe chairman is back, and i have one quick question and he indulged me and allowed me to ask this. You talked about the vendor constraint on implementation schedules. I would direct this to you ms. Fleming and in your testimony discussed this. Have issues with supply constraint improved since 2018 or gotten worse . I think, i think theyre about the same. You know, i think that the difference is that, you know, everybody is really trying to work through this. Everyone has gotten the ra attention, everyones attention. But theres a limited pool and everybody is working toward that same deadline and you only have four railroads that crossed the finish line and everyone is looking for their plans and their implementation schedule to be adhered to. But at the same time, when you encounter a Software Glitch or itms, locomotive memory they have to be worked through and get it right. I think, unfortunately, were at a critical juncture. I dont know if theres a better or worse. We really need the vendors and we need their agame and we need to cross that finish line and get it right. Thank you. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Well, thank you all. Weve now embarked on a series of roll call votes on the floor of the senate. Which were unexpected. I want to thank all the witnesses for being with us today on a very pointed topic. We remain hopeful, but watchful and we look forward to your suggestions. The hearing record will remain open for two weeks. During this time senators are asked to submit any questions for the record. Upon receipt, the witnesses are requested to submit their written answers to the committee as soon as possible, but by no later than wednesday, august 28th, 2019. Thank you very much, and with that we conclude the hearing with the thanks of the members. [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] and we go live now to a conversation this morning on u. S. Military air power. Well hear from two air force major generals at this event hosted by the Mitchell Institute for aerospace studies. Live coverage this morning on cspan2. [inaudible conversation [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations]