Transcripts For CSPAN2 Jim Mattis Call Sign Chaos 20240714

We dont want to blind our speakers. And if you will put all of your cell phones on silent. That would be wonderful. And if you want to post anything on social media, we would love for you to tag at politics rose and at each of you underscore events. So we can see your stuff and possibly reposted. My name at britney and i am the partner Events Manager at politics and prose and i first just want to thank all of you for coming out on a friday night for tonight his event. Tonight is the joint effort its our venue partner George Washington university and we are also pleased to bring you jim mattison conversation its david brooks tonight. Before we get to tonight his program i just want to tell you of a few other Exciting Events we have coming up in partnership its gw. So next week on september 11, we have an event its malcolm and bill at listener for his new book talking its strangers which will be part of a live recording of sam sanders podcast on npr. On september 12, right here we have Samantha Power as well as Josh Campbell its james comey on september 16th and on september 24th danny smith will be here for her memoir. Tickets for all of those events are on sale now so i hope to see you guys at some of those this month. Now into the event that your guys are all looking for. Secretary jim mattison is the Pacific North west name and that serve more than four decades as a marine and freight officer. Following two years as secretary of defense, he returned the northwest and is now the familys distinguished fellow at the hoovers in hoovers and cupboards and chaos at the account of medicine storied career. From wideranging leadership roles in three wars to ultimately commanding a quarter of a million troops across the middle east. Along the way, he recounts his foundational experiences of a leader. Exacting the lessons he had learned about the nature of war fighting and peacemaking. The importance of allies in the strategic dilemmas now facing our nation. It makes it clear why america must return to a strategic footing so it cannot just continue winning battles but fighting floors. Manis divides his book into three parts. Direct leadership, executive leadership and strategic leadership. In the first part he recalls his Early Experiences leaving rains in the battle. When he news his troops as well as his own brothers. In the second part, he explores what it means what it means to command thousand of troops how to adapt your leadership style to ensure your intent at understood by your most junior troops that they can forum their own mission. In the third part, metas describes the challenges and techniques of leadership at the strategic level. Where military leaders reconcile grim realities but political leaders human aspirations. Complexity rains and the consequences of an wooden his are severe. Even catastrophic. The cast is the memoir of the live of war fighting and lifelong learning. Following along from Marine Recruit to fourstar general. It is the journey about learning to lead in a story about how he through constant study in action, develop a unique leadership philosophy that made him into the man he at today. General matus will be in conversation tonight its david brooks. Political and cultural commentator who writes for the New York Times. And he at also currently a commentator on cbs news hour npr his all Things Considered in nbcs meet the press. He at the author his of but was in paradise the mu upper class and how they got there. And on Paradise Drive how we live now and always have in future debts. In march 2011, he came out its his third book, the social animal, the hidden sources of love character and achievement. It was the number one New York Times bestseller and his latest, the second mountain, will not stop flying off the shelves at politics and prose since it was a motion april. Please help me welcome to the stage david brooks and secretary jim mattis. [applause] [inaudible conversation] obviously the campaign has begun. [laughter] there are many surprises. I love right reading the book. There are many surprises, the first surprise was that you are hitchhiking around the west at age 13. Give us that basic facts about your founding but to give us the emotional tone of your founding what kind of house to drop in. Its the military was preparing you for the marine corps. Jim i was not brought up in a military founding at all. We like being outdoors. We camp the weekends. My mother and father traveled the world as young people. My father was a merchant marine for 15 years. My mother was in the army g2 crypto clerk. It went off to south africa and worked there for the world was a place to be explored. They didnt move i was hitchhiking at first. They figured out. It was more trusting time. You could hitchhike around america and be picked up by the crosscountry Truck Drivers in the afternoon and not knowing where you would stop at night or by the night nurse coming off duty early in the morning and pick you up to drive you to the next town. It was a great education. David you are not the most devoted student. Either high school or in the past for college. But you are perhaps rhonda the hardest working people i have ever met someone did that kick in. Jim ive never thought at what ive done it at a lot of work. Just enjoyment of being around people. It was sort of thing right wanted to be outdoors and wanted to go explore the world and i loved books. But i dont think i was much of a student because it seems to structure to me. Everyone has a different way of learning. But one thing when he joined the marines, everybody has to read certain books. Its a reading list. Then we do make folders and then even another whole new reading list and we do make sergeant here at another reading list. As matteroffactly generally general, they get handed a new reading list to go back to work. They werent really interested in your midlife crisis we do said i didnt have time to do the reading. They were very adamant about it. Little by little, i think frankly, i didnt like a lot of the jobs in the marines, i loved being around young infantrymen who would do the dirtiest jobs in the most dangerous jobs and i learned to hate mine fields at age 20 one but i loved being around Young Marines who would crawl into minefields fighting and biting the look still in their teens probing and looking for something that they didnt want to find. If they missed it they move that there but he could get killed and thats the only reason i stuck around that lowpaying outfit for 40 odd years. I just loved being around the young sailors marines who made up the units in the infantry. David this book at almost a leveler to the marine corps. When they are in its the trips especially infantry, you feel your happiness in the pros. And when they are often wrestles nato, a little less. So what did marine corps takes young men and women who were hanging around the 711 at high school or college and doing all of this stuff remote men and women do and it turns them into something different. How does that happen. Jim first of all they are volunteers. Whatever damage it did to our country, i came in at a time when i probably wouldve joined, i doubt i wouldve joined the marines had not been for the draft. You had to go. Thats all there was to it. You could try a duck out of it but you had your edit even a young age you dont want to look like your a boy you will be a man. So when off to canada, 1969 the vietnam war was going on. We thought we would never be able to come home for her brother his wedding. We didnt think theyd come home as heroes a few years later but they did. You signup and you go off to do your patriotic duty and thats where i found that the marines really valued excellence. Ive never once had running the Obstacle Course against another platoon and our whole cartoon running through to see you could get through fastest and i realized i was going to beat this guy. Physical things came easy to make. So i didnt give it everything i need it to, i still beat him. And you get to the end and you climb the rope and you touch the top and drop down any enterprise. The sergeant lit into me and said you were giving it a hundred percent. I am fed up its you. Communist assented to the marine force. He went all over me. Let it let me make it clear to you young man. We do give a hundred percent, i will be a hundred percent satisfied. You give 99 percent i will be a hundred percent dissatisfied. When someone at in your face like that, you get the idea. To start learning about its the word commitment means. Your flight from then on. Its a beach for your founding to community or wherever you go, that stays its you. Its a very formative experience. David there at one passage in here we said on government mice. Personal sensitivities are irrelevant. If there is a mistake. When i read that sentence, i thought the last 60 years of American Culture just crumbled. Because we in most workplaces in most schools personal sensitivities not making people feel bad, is the high priority. You think that comes at the expense of excellent supplies or does the marine or just his own place. Jim is the good. That the fact at on the battlefield there at no trophy for second place much less ninth place. So youve got to win. So you brought up its this very grim set of skills by people who have been there and done it and theyre not really interested in reasons why it cannot happen. Youve got to simply carry it through. A Pretty Simple carries you along at you move everybody beside you at also going to be there when trouble looms. They will come even at the risk of their lives so its humbling. Ed at energizing to. They are now something bigger than yourself. I think that is really what expands you. It does not shrink you to be part of an organization. It expands you to have that sense. David earlier in your career, you brent recruitment i think in your home. Sounds like you were working 80 hour weeks or some long amount. And there at always who did not want to do that. I challenged you and said maybe in a founding, i did it and you busted him and ended his career. What about worklife balance. Jim there is a worklife balance but what its gotta be at everybody at doing everything they can so you dont dove more of the work on someone else. In this case i made clear that the young man that you could be a marine i could be a quitter. But you can be both. Im not going to care more about your career at the new care. You tell me what you want to be. You are the marine i will coach you i will be its you all the way through. And he decided to test it. The thing to remember at especially its the number of young very good students. David and i got account before walked out. You always want to help people. They wont even waste my time as a couch and thats really what i did. About 95 percent of my time in the marines, i was a coach. But i will not waste my time coaching somebody who its not humble. It at worthless. You might as well just give it up. If theyre not humble enough to recognize they need coaching, if they are not and im not that humble, then really you cant help them. In any organization if you become a leader, you dont get to be a leader because you have a rank on your caller or a title your business card, your juniors make you a leader. They determine if you are a leader or not. They will boast whether or not you are a leader. On the battlefield, they will follow 19 yearold if the 28 yearold captain doesnt move abc at doing. Just remember to that at times even jesus of nazareth had rhonda 12 go to crack on him. [laughter] you can maintain a firing squad. You gotta get rid of them. [laughter]. David i miss that part of the gospel. [laughter] lets go to coaching. Connor who was his mentor, did you have somebody that that was my coach, thats the guy you may be who i am. Jim i had to think about who my mentors were. I and this tour, look back on things. The whole. Was to pass on lessons that i had learned and what works for me. For you to consider not to follow blindly but to say does this make sense to you. When they are in the infantry, you are oceans rise or fall on your ncos. They are living out there its 40 sailors and marines and they are in the mud and you have no Better Living conditions. The last officer and a chain of command so you must represent all of the orders that come down. To those in our line of her going to the intimate killing zone. The close quarters battle. In my first platoon sergeant was an immigrant from the british in the caribbean. His name was wayne johnson, corporal wayne johnson. Senior enlisted guy out of 40 sailors and marines and he was only 20 one years old and i was when one years old at the same time. And of course its a name like wayne johnson, everyone called him john wayne. Absolutely and then hed been overseas for a long time and he taught me not just what i did but he told me what not to do. When an officer doesnt do. Just leave them alone and let other people handle certain things. Im starting to learn right then about delegating decisionmaking and responsibility. My second platoon sergeant, also a corporal, was manual rivera. He was 1973 timeframe. He wasnt you work more was of you here in the audience. He was immigrant from mexico. He was the same way, he was stern, and yet he was a guy who could get down there and show a marine who was having trouble how to do something right. I used to just admire the way he could and a few sharp words get someones attention and then just turn the person in the right direction mostly spiritually and the physical the mental followed. Then my third sergeant, i finally had a Staff Sergeant its about 15 years in the marine corps remain the room, hes from quebec and were good again. I was also learning about the immigrant role. In the us military and just how they were overrepresented and it was a broadening experience because somehow growing up in my hometown, 99 percent of the people i was its were native born. That sort of thing. Why do i bring it up because the military by its very nation will expand you. In a way that no other organization will. In a sense of diversity. The mentors come in all shapes and sizes and they come from all parts of the world. David rhonda the things at in the book says that you have an affection for the rains yet i assume there are times when they are leading any size of unit, you have to be unpopular. Were you to the people you are were there always some distance between you and those under your command. Jim i use to encourage, i was taught this and used to encourage officers should come as close to the line that separates them from the true. As they can. And be themselves but that went out giving up one ounce of their authority. Because there at going to come a time when the chips are down and you are going to have to. To someone and. Towards the enemy and tell them to go. At that. , everything in that young mans body at dont get up and dont move against them, you move it can happen. They are going to need that authority. We do use a very critical word. Its only 25 years to come the word affection. You need to trust and unique respect. Trust is the. Of a brown. If you dont have that as a leader, you probably are going to accomplish much of anything. David i knew that the troops respected their leaders, marine corps anywhere from 40 to 60 percent of all of ready screen people who have tried to become officers but why were some units so good. I was some 40 man cocoons were as good as a hundred and 50 man. It took me a long time to figure out it was the other word. Affection for example, and foremost around me as a two star i had 29 sailors and marines and informants, 17 of the 29 were killed or injured around me. When casualty start getting around 50 percent, thats not good. They sculpt a landmark providence. This very tough fighting. Day in and day out. What held them together was an affection for each other that no matter what happened, it would keep fighting. They would keep fighting and fighting and fighting and fighting. The affection at the opposite in its own way of popularity. Popularity brings favoritism. That is rhonda the reasons why you will see the military so anti anything that would bring other impulses inside combat assault units. Because when they are putting someone and sending them forward, you can read in some very old textbooks about when favoritism rotted the unit right out from underneath the king here solomon. And others. The point at that affection is the sort of think that does not rest on any sort of favoritism. Son about being popular when they are going around making people get up and move. When they dont want to and you are telling people that the first thing they have to do when they have to clean uniform his job in a mud puddle, because you dont want them to be reluctant to hit the deck in the mud. When they get shot at, they are not doing things that make you popular. You find to that if you have been honest its your troops, if they had trusted you, then they will stick its you. For example, deep inside a city that we lost boys taken halfway through it, and we move at that the enemy on the run, and were told to pull out. A Television Camera gets shoved at a young light machine gunners face blonde haired filthy dirty marine, hes got his machine gun over his shoulders at coming out and the reporters are staying this at terrible you must feel terrible. You lost your buddies, at terrible and they are being told to do Something Else. These he has a slow talking kid from down south. He looked at the camera said doesnt matter, well just buy them somewhere else and kill them. The gist of the spirit of these young folks who sign up this blank check payable to all of you in this room. It at to this experiment we call america. I would also tell you that if we hadnt been honest that young woman all along, and we havent kept him informed, and he didnt trust us. He couldve said yes terrible. And when morale at down in a combat unit, you move right away they are going to lose more people. Its affection i think the bills on the trust and respect and its not popularity. David theres a thing called a brent study which meant graduated from college in 1940 and followed them through live. Some became colonels and privates or whatever. They wanted to move what correlated success in warfare. It was an iq and it was a socioeconomic status and it was a physical courage. It was relationship its mother. And that the men had received love from their moms knew how to give to their men. A deep reservoir. The first battle of falluja this was an unpleasant moment in the warfield were a lot of them who were given orders to take it down you didnt like to be told to take it or to stop ticket so how do you marsh your personally and your men and women through to Marine Operation that you think is the mistake we were in. Jim we were in a landmark in the enemy was rising up but would become known as the semi uprising against us. He had plenty of help, it turned out that we were outnumbered there. We were under troop kept so we couldnt even bring additional troops even though we had them waiting in Southern California to come in. Shortly after we took over the district from the 82nd airborne division, the contractors were out wandering the battlefield we used to be very upset about this sort of stuff, wandered into a town called falluja and they got killed they were burned their bodies hung up and people were very angry here in this town. It was a tribal town so what we did was we knew we would get a hold of the tribal elements basically hated the people who done it and we find where the bodies were and where we divided spak by the people who done it and had them down and kill them didnt want to do it we did it its rage into their homes at night, that sort of thing. I didnt want to charge into a city of three and 50000 people so after a couple of days of arguing about this, i finally received the order that you will move against scotia and stay in the fight. I knew that my boss and the bus above him, agreed its me that they fought the good fight its washington and thats why its called orders ladies and gentlemen. His socalled likes. Youve got to do it. I said okay, lets do it and what you have to do at im going to do it as well as if i thought the plan myself if you have to embrace it. Going to Something Like that halfway and people are going to suffer so i only had to assault payout battalion. Many innocent people evacuated as many as we could. Over 307,003 to 10000 and then we went in and swing in. I would just tell you that the one qualification i put on it i said okay, i am going but dont stop. Deep inside the city the enemy was very effective warfare, for example photo film age in fact we never fired one artillery or ground in the first battle. I would have if we need it it but the helicopter gunships in the tanks were given us what we need it. We didnt fire artillery. It was played as if we were doing that on pvc and other networks here in this town footage that was i think they call them trailers or something. Guys who bring stuff into them. So we got stopped deep inside the city points my lads literally within grenade range apart and we were losing people in the same. Then we got orders to pull back and thats when the machine gunner was asked about it. You just have to do the best you can because sometimes live doesnt go the way you wanted to go. So you give it a hundred percent. David howdy command about like that. Some are busting through walls and houses. What what at in general how did you command. Jim first of all you have to make sure that you clearly what you want. So the commander his intent at what it at called. I said my aim at to destroy the terrorist stronghold inside collision. At the least cost to the innocent as possible. And i want to move quickly to assault battalions and ill bring in more battalions just as soon as possible. We must move fast enough because we cant resupply. We knew they hadnt got ready for the value. Then we do go around and you talk to the assault units. Write down what you literally lock down pull them together in small groups and explain it. So now you say you have asked me questions. And they would ask questions. Go back and forth and if you could draw out of them what would really concern inside. Many would have a unit ready to go. You just do this, that is the leader his job. Once you have made that clear if you train your people and they work very well trained the assault units than you take the hands off the steering wheel. Just take it off and give the initiative if you trust your young ncos, your young officers, they keep the social energy going in the units, their call for the support young ncos, are doing their job. They will blow holes in the sides of the building so they dont have to go in the way that is boobytrapped. They move what theyre doing. But if you start getting into a place where you want to control, like in the marines, we dont call it commandandcontrol. Have many of you ever heard of that word. Love you marines believe and command and feedback. In other words, we told you what we need done now youll see me on the front lines up there listening to them going to talk to the wounded marines what happened. That sort of thing. To get feedback from a hundred different directions. Take your hands off the wheel. After you have clearly stated what needs to be done. David preparing for battle, they were huddled in these covered by the shields, they were so terrified that you could hear each others teeth chattering. Have you felt that kind of fear in the course of your career even the battlefield or someone else. Jim absolutely. You feel it, they are trying to overcome it. There are things you can do to overcome it. Your body will also help you. Your mind will help you. It will slow some things down but the most important thing, theres nothing strange about fear. Its going to be there. His primary live. First time i got shot at, i couldnt taste for three days. It scared the hell of me. But i think that they are well enough trained over really drives you forward because they are probably going to be very tired, i cannot to be and explain to you how tired you get in combat. Some of you in here have been there and you move what im referring to. Safir at going to be there coupled its the petite that goes beyond words. There at going to be also just a sense and almost a time of doom and exhilaration going back and forth moment by moment and the adrenaline at pumping and pretty soon they are pretty tired out. Anyone can get tired enough that it just doesnt work. But what keeps you going really at that affection and that love for one another that i dont care what happens, i am not going to leave him uncovered. Sear back up on your knees firing for the monies as they are Going Forward in the muslim ricketson. In the are real good at socializing people for that level of commitment when they come in. You go into fight its its a lot of confidence. David after that battle, your time two years. So you went forth and then you wrote a book. Manual. A bozo like revolutionary document, writing a book that come while the marines were fighting in iraq, at that just part of the rotation and what was the intellectual process behind that. It really dim revolution doctrine. Jim and took advantage of the Lessons Learned but this at the normal behavior of a learning organization. If the organization his learning, you bring some of your people back dave and i were old friends and we serve together as kernels. Now at to start and then next as three stars. He was at Fort Leavenworth and i was at quantico. We just admit write something. We said okay, map out the chapters understaffed and it. We said okay the army at going to take these chapters and read these chapters. Then we would meet just like the senate and house of representatives, [laughter]. David that works out well [laughter]. Jim we could give them a lesson. We turned out the book very quickly and most important thing in it to me was something called design. Go back to einstein called confronting a problem how to save the earth, how would he compose his thinking. And allegedly he said he would give them one hour to save the world, and its been 55 minutes defining the problem and save the world in five minutes. So the marines, weve got to define the problem chapter in the Campaign Design chapter book for all of you as you go into these kinds of issues, whether it be incorporations or School Districts in your local community, wherever you are at. Take your time to define the problem to what i call the level of satisfaction. Dont go charging into a war and then you pull a statue down in capitals say well, then that what we do. Not a good idea. So i put the book out and we think we learned a lot while we were there david and i, and then we put it out we change the training in the doctrine and the weapons in the uniforms and mostly the cultural aspects of the Services Going on. Once we got enough people on the ground, we were able to turn it around. David when my favorite section in your book at they are going to lead the invasion of iraq immediately one but the first thing to do at lead and there is a good favorite passage of the book at where you say if you havent already read hundreds of books they are functionally illiterate. Which at good for politics and prose. [laughter] [laughter] you really did and time to read and every day of your career. Jim again the marine corps expected it. They dont mind if you make mistakes, i made a lot of mistakes got chewed out in the marine corps doesnt look out for your ego or anything when they go after you. But they also promoted me every time i mayday mistake. They promoted me every time i think the marine corps made it clear that they werent looking for and they expected me to study but they didnt expect me not to make mistakes. And for all of you because they are all going to be leaders of something. If you want to be. That is your choice. That is the opportunity you will have their own leaders at all ranks in society and on the job and in families. Make sure you move the difference between a mistake and a lack of discipline. In the naval service, in the marines, you save your on the ship on the rocks, they are going to get hammered. This the varsity, they are going down. As your savior, they are probably going to go out. You are young and you get a Second Chance maybe. Just as long as not moral interpretive. But a mistake, human beings make mistakes. Ive made a lot of mistakes. Let me tell you, in the middle of the open desert, i command 1250 sailors marines and arabs. In my battalion an assault battalion we were going through minds and in the middle of an open desert, i get my battalion surrounded. That is almost impossible. [laughter] i was at the top of my game but it was the wrong game. It [laughter] as i went into this, and you move when your mortars died and they are setting up for shooting this way and for shooting that way. They are not very brilliant. Later on ive seen they got me out of that mess is it too. I walked around and said hey they are just checking us right colonel. He just wanted to see if you still had it. No i messed up. They told us we had a breakthrough to quite city tonight. Theyre starting to murder innocent people in the streets. The army at retreating in front of us. They were committing atrocities so youve got to get there. You got something. So its getting late and it was going be difficult. The colonel called us together. The four colonels who led the attack into quite city and when we got done, and were all moving back to our vehicles back to our units and look heres the order cisco. He called over to me and said hey jim, october, did you learn something today. I said yes sir. He didnt anymore he didnt have to rub it in a just wanted to make sure that he knew that i do he saw it. He want to make sure that was a big deal but he didnt make a big deal of it. He thought thats enough. And he knows im going into another attack and i dont need some song and dance about tactics right now. I learned a lesson. So i think to if you can tell help people get through mistakes and use them as learning opportunities, doesnt in any way except lack of discipline. For crying out loud, lets not have a no mistakes world. I went to jail twice. Twice before i went into the marines. I would just tell you that the marines forgave that is it too. [laughter]. David we do make a decision there its not a mistake in their losses, do you torture yourself about it or do you just say ive learned a lesson i cant and i moved on. Jim you do not forget when your lads lose lives are for what you did. You just have to live its that. David two final questions that are political. First at about president obama relieve you of the command. And you have some clear places where you didnt not think you were fighting the right civilian leadership. Describe that relationship and your overview thoughts of him. Jim i found them curious, i would be in meetings its him but heres the thing, you heard when we were introduced, that at times military leaders have to bring wars but you refer to the green realities into the discussion. Its politicians who are trying to go for peace and prosperity and healthcare educate and all the things we care about. Again we defend the country so i can have those things. And so we have to bring that thinking in to the decisions made in war which at completely alien to what we are trying to do in this beautiful democracy. In bringing the harmony of our Team Together in this country. At least i hope we are. And so its president obama, i thought that if we polled all of the coops out in the intelligence, the cai came to brief me, before i went up to the discussions in the white house each time. They said they would brief and say heres what the enemy will do in all this, and one time a insignia hello my admirals and generals are sitting on the and the cia prefers are there briefing me and some kind of they wouldnt say anything for a long minute or so. Or two minutes. After a brief period so im sitting there and my guys are all smiling knowing somebody at going to break the silence present. The young lady who at leading the brief, from cia said let me put it this way general, you pull all of our troops out of the end of the year and by the summer of 2014, this at in 2011, by the summer of 2014, and al qaeda groups stronger than ever more well resourced than ever and more vicious than ever will come out. Im not sure which one time i think i move who it at, not going to tell you what i think i move i am telling you they will. And youll have to put troops back in. David are intelligence communities regardless of anything in the newspaper, enters of other people assessment. Rhonda the best in the world. If not the best. Maybe not in each region, not top. But overall at the top. So i would carry the message in and then on the issues of rn, the president decided i would go. And ladies and gentlemen, the words are you serve at the pleasure of the president. Threat right into the commission. I bear him no rank but he didnt have the right to do it. His words have to mean something for when he keeps you there we do live. I lift there in 2013. And 14 months later we had to go back and troops its millions of people turned into refugees by the very people i sense, that the cia refer had briefed on. 50000 dead and wounded in the first months of what was going on. City falling, girls as young as eight and seven years old being raped and taken into being made slaves. That is the catastrophic result of a strategic decision. So i gave what i thought was the strongest admonition of why we must not do this. But if you believe in the constitution you are going to uphold it and you keep faith its it. You carry out the orders of the civilians, as you think they are immoral. I did think it was strategically unsound, we that was his right as the elected commanderinchief. And you do not suddenly think that you start telling the civilians when we are going to work and were not going to work. You just have to deal its it. David on this book to her, roughly 500 journalists have asked you to diss on president trump. [laughter] so far at the batting average at zero for 500. Yet im going to try. [laughter] as i have heard the argument about why you dont want to discuss the current president , military people should not discuss the present red just for civilian military relationships. But you have no military relationship its president trump. Im not aware that political presidencies there at no about talking about a sitting president. [laughter] isnt that the right to preserve. Jim where are formed by our formative experiences. Where i come from, personally right write the brand. Im from out west. You write and read in the red of the Us Constitution and the Us Constitution says if a man at elected and a woman at elected commanderinchief, they are they commanderinchief. Secondly, as a republican or democrat president calls you and says i want you to do something, you dont set up on the wall of the castle bringing your hands and you dont pull a hammons and say no, should i do it or not, just go to work. If you think they are ready to do the job, roll up your sleeves go in and give it your best shot. We do leave and administration over a policy difference, and you write that policy difference in a public letter and you lay it out then youve said, why you lift. The sellers saw it. And it was over alliances and it was over whose our adversaries, and i was upfront about it. That is straightforward talk its the president and he and i alone in the oval office. We had the straightforward talk walking out of the office. It was not an adversarial relationship. Most people thought i was doing things behind his back, i was very open its the president when i was doing. We have lunch most weeks. Just the two of us. We were always right up front its each other. Weve a million trips right now and many of them are deployed to see, they are fighting in syria tonight and of afghanistan, they dont need a former cabinet official coming out and distracting from what the secretary of state and secretary of defense the president staying to do right now. I dont believe that is helpful. Since, by the way the divide reserve. A duty of part of why its. For a while. Im not against coming out and talking about strategy or policy disagreements. I did it its the last several president s. I make clear what i think about what we did in iraq. Under president bush. But i dont believe that people its a military background should come out and make political assessments of civilian leaders. Let me be very clear. George washington and newburgh, said you will not do what they are trying to do here and these were his officers who legitimate gripe. The mutiny for a reason. He would out and look them right in the eye and said you will not do it. General bradley after world war ii, Straight Army general said when general retires, retires his uniform, retire his tongue when it comes to political matters. When i was introduced here tonight, when i walked out there and talked to some of you in the line, many people called me general. I may tell you i am no longer a general but in many people minds, i am still a general. And when the time comes, that our military people start going out into the and if they want to run for office i am all for it. Three Hannah Ringgold said okay. But you dont go out and take part in partisan politics and start staying how many generals you can line up on this person versus that person. Our military his most admired institutions in terms of the coffin at American People year in and year out on the pupils for a reason. Apolitical. Then when we start getting into the politics of it, i think the bipartisan nature of the, i had 87 percent of the republican and democrats both representatives and congressmen and senators to vote for a record breaking budget last december before i lift. 87 percent. Do you think that wouldve happened if we were politicizing the department senator vandenberg, michigan, late 1940s, rightwing republicans senator. Challenges home district his home state, why are you working that terrible democrat truman, president truman. Basically he says, the defense of our country at nonpartisan. The quote they are here often at politics and or stops at the water his edge. Id stay its that tradition. I hear the other ways the secretary carter asked carter good friend, my predecessor. Under president obama refused to engage in political discussions and he would order the military officers sitting next to him on capitol hill. Not to answer question. Because it was purely political. Weve got to keep the military out of this. None of us have any fear of the military moving into the political realm in an authoritative way. But believe me most countries of the world are like that. It gone on is it too long. [laughter]. David [applause] [applause]. David now will move from the questions i wrote a note pad. These are your questions. The military awards medals for physical courage. At there ever a way to give awards to moral courage. Jim i think a promotion. By the time you get up in rank in the armed forces, you really do get promoted for your moral courage. Its not just because you move how to do this science of work. The art of war. A matter of fact ive said them many Selection Boards as you do at you get a fire and rain, but the time you are for example lieutenant colonel, at elected boards for whos going to be promoted to captain. And we do are free force or a fourstar general they are going to select the one and two star generals and the surest way to get passed over, the absolute easiest way to be told were not going to promote that guy, but i go, at that they have shown a lack of integrity or moral courage. So it at really the selection because in the institution gives the behavior it rewards. The institution gets rotten, then you can have a problem its this. As happened its happened to corporations and institutions. At why you have to be very alert to this to keep your personal and managerial integrity. I think the way the award that we would give would be probably promotion. David i see most field grade and officers struggle its technology and the cost of the dod as a result. Henry says this before its is it too late. Jim i think rhonda the things you have to do at make certain that your organization at fit for its time. A few years ago, we set up us Cyber Command, which is the combatant command for example, i have commanded forces command in a committed us central command. That was a one in the war in the middle east. Id we now have a command and some for sometime the us Cyber Command and it works on that very issue. So we do have now, our people being promoted ncos and officers where their skill in that very area. So what you have to do, you see technology coming forward like this, you have to organize the institution so you start promoting people based on their capability there. Weve been doing that for some time. The us central, and for example if you walked in to a certain operations room, you would see the intelligent people sitting there and then you would see the guy who at coordinating the strike coming off of the aircraft carriers at corn dating strikes from the air force. Whose corn corn any Army Missiles and youd see sitting right next to them, some of these cyber folks sitting right next to them its like just another rhonda the supporting arms. As we integrate it all. Some of the silmarillion sitting there, the hiring headquarters because we have outgrown all of that military rank and its coming fast its young people coming in now. Some of the girls had more tattoos than any sailor in the fleet. [laughter] some of the guys had more earrings than any girl i dated. [laughter] [laughter] but they were darned good at their job and we will love having them there. They were great. David what at the greatest National Security threat against the united states. Jim to. In terms of this world where we focus a lot on terrorism, terrorism at going to be its us. As an ambient threat. Its not going away real soon. It reflects other things and were going to have to fight it and then try to set the conditions of education of Economic Opportunities and at going to reduce the need for people to think they got to go in a violent way. Were just going to have to fight the rest of them. But in this world today, the bigger threats are what i would call the great power of competition. Russia and china want to give Veto Authority to themselves over surrounding nations economic decisions, security decisions and diplomatic decisions. China the president would stand in the rose garden its president obama and say they would not militarize the Spratly Islands and then they would in and put weapons into the Spratly Islands. For russia that would invade and take it over we are going to have to recognize that russia at what russia at under pudding. Not the russia we wanted to be. So thats where i would see it now. Terrorism goes on we got china and russia, russia the declining power, i think in some ways that actually makes them more dangerous in short term. But the longterm, as i told my chinese counterpart, were going to have to find a way between you and i between our nations that manage our differences. Because we are to Nuclear Powers and we dont want to be as stupid as the europeans twice in the 20th century. And engulf the world in a dog on war. When everybody hears about this crap ladies and gentlemen about rising power and a power this big, its just gonna go to war. Number one it hasnt always gone to war. So the smart guy, nuclear age they wouldve written a different book. Just trust me on this. I will enough and ive talked to him. [laughter] but i think theres a bigger threat to me. Lets go back and read Abraham Lincoln his lot at the young mans list in 1858, when he talks about there at no army coming from europe or africa thats going to come over here and cross the blue ridge across the ohio river even if they have a bonaparte. Napoleon and little short guy. [laughter] easily cant do it. If going to destroy his country, wheeling to do it to ourselves. The bigger concern i have right now at twofold. One people of my color of hair are not maintaining the physical discipline of the country. We expect that weekend just turn this over to you young folks. This debt every day. Were not going to tax ourselves we are going to take all of these benefits on board. And youve got to deal its it. Well just transfer it to you and you get old you can find his big debt. And by the way, how a big incident. As these that record frankie budget was for the pentagon this last year. Record breaking. Probably by next year, will spend more than that every year servicing the death. That money moscow or beijing or riyadh or tokyo or wherever its going, to the people about our bond who loaned us the money, were going to be sending the money back overseas to marine donation histories history at ever retained his freedom at liberty at military security, they couldnt keep its fiscal house in order. But even more worrisome at what lakin warned us about. And that is, were separating into these little warring tribes we wont talk its each other were contemptuous of others and we dont think that the person we disagree its might actually be right once in a while. As we go into this more contentious role, we become almost perpetually its election. I understand the election. Im smart they are dumb. Right they are wrong. Not always simple. I accept that. Welcome to democracy. Especially for your young folks here, that is not the right model. To stay in governing where you try to divide then get yourself elected. Once the election at over, you have to go into governance and governance at about unity. Not dividing. Weve got to come together and most 55 minutes roller sleeves up to find the problems and must take time to do that. Then we solve it. That worries me more than anything that right now this is the problem its all of our weapons, not just, look whats going on in london right now. This at becoming dangerous. We have to understand experiment of democracy can fail. If we dont think its valuable and precious and defendant. David what advice would you give to your younger self. Jim [inaudible conversation] dont mess its the police. [laughter] no, probably for you young folks in the audience, dont wait until youve got my color of hair to do something. They are pretty impatient now and thats a good thing. Do your homework. Make a difference now. Dont wait until later. I bring this up because we need fresh ideas and we need bigger and you dont need to be running for national office. Run for school board. What could be better in your local area. Temp may concern the young people that the young people are going to grow up and have good educations. Run for city manager became the mayor. Do things where they are rolling up your sleeves. They are putting your thumbprint on it. We need that right now. I am part of the luckiest generation. I was raised by the greatest generation. Im not so sure what we are turning over to you at as good. At what we got for mowing the greatest generation. You need to step up quickly and start challenging people its questions and being impatient and we some governance going on here. No longer accepting that you can just seven your hands when there are problems. Take the time to listen to others. Make certain that you define the problem well enough that then you can go to work and solve them. David do you believe the telephone deal at likely to result in more or less stability in afghanistan. Jim im not going to comment on current things. I dont know enough back channel, i move weve got some great negotiators here. But one thing about it, for all of us we are going to have to decide what we stand for and what we wont stand for. And when we got there, to afghanistan i went in right after 911 and i remembered types of only being flown over the stronghold of the taliban had held. I remember how proud the children were especially for girls. As they walked down the street on the first day of school and walking by heavily armed us shoulders and marines sailors seals and foreign troops because when we were attacked, other allies came to our aid. Here in america. New york city and washington dc was attacked. We carried our values forward. Now for the first time, and these young girls lives, they can go to school. It worries me that if we dont think those kind of rights are valuable for everybody in the world, and were not im missing work we need to go round being the world his policeman. Thats what alliances are for but we do need to keep our moral voice in our leadership for most. David could you discuss the interplay of National Security and also what you think of the solution at Carbon Dividend plan that you secretary schultz. Jim i think the Carbon Dividend makes sense. Let me talk a moment to those who are skeptical. To those that might not be the case, if there is a chance that its Climate Change and it can be as potentially catastrophic as some think it can be, would be good to have an insurance policy . I have not had an accident driving in my car ever, i still have insurance on my car, when you be a good idea to do that, im trying to find Common Ground to move forward because why on earth would we take a chance with something that big when you can see it proceeding in the way its never proceeded before. We would work at defining the problem in a way that is your refutable and at least to about 80 . We lived under live in a age today that the magnificent number you can reach it, then we have to do something about it. In terms of National Security, theres a lot of reason to look what happened in syria as part of the civil war goes. As relating to a drought, i spent a lot of time in the middle east were not always talking a drought there. But a drought that drove many Small Farmers of the land to the city, not enough seats in the classroom, people were angry, food seller said to himself on fire and he angered comes through the arab world and you can draw only some conclusion that this has indirectly bed into the discontent of the refugee flows. My question to the skeptics would be wouldnt you at least take out an insurance policy on this . Finally, happiness is to will one thing wholeheartedly. In your life is more coherent than any other life ive encountered. The marine corps has been your community, secret mission, belief system, moral community, youre out of active service in the marine corps, youre out of the secretary defense unless Bernie Sanders asked you to come back. [laughter] what is your calling now . The reason i wrote the book, i wanted to pass on what i learned along the way. But really, the absolute joy of serving alongside marines that kept me there, it was more than just the marines. I was not in the marine corps, i was in the u. S. Marine corps. In the spending of your money, the combat that we went through, and i really had a love affair with u. S. Constitution. I even enjoy reading the dongguan thing, you find great things and you think you read it ten times or hundred times and you find Something Else in there that is great. Its the idea that this is so precious that it probably cannot even be taught to you how precious, you must have to since it as you read it and think of the young and old guy sitting there starting with the declaration and when they sign that, they know they are signing their lives on the line, of king george catches them, they are dead, thats the way kings did it. And for us to have this today, this experiment seems so precious to me that i will commit whatever i can to helping young people become the leaders that they want to be, i dont care business, diocese or small town or wherever it is, i dont have all the answers but i tell them heres what worked for me. I dont know whether to think of secretary mattis general mattis, jim mattis. Jim mattis will define. Thank you. Thank you. [applause] [inaudible conversations] [applause] [inaudible conversations] you are watching the tv on cspan2 with top nonfiction books and authors every weekend, book tv, television for serious readers. Yell history professor Joanne Freeman was a recent guest on the calling program in depth, here she talks about america founders and the designer to dress and act differently from european monarchy. One of the wonderful things about studying and writing about it, they put all kinds of things in writing that you dont expect them to put in writing. So john adams writing to a friend and saying, how should an american politician spread. I do want to look like those british or french european aristocrats, the clothing i had is for my years in europe, a lot of lace, is that too much lace for the american, shade strip lisa wait or washington. How many horses, with the carriage was seen a appropriately for americans. It sounds goofy and why its so much fun to teach, on the other hand there susan thinking about the fact that those kinds of little stylistic decisions are really going to shape the tone in the character of the government in the nation and everything sets a precedent in improv can have a big impact. On the one hand, its a most comical because it seems trivial, on the other hand its really not trivial and that is really interesting. To watch the rest of this and previous episodes, visit our website booktv. Org, click on the indepth tab on the top of the page. Here is a look authors who appeared recently on book tv after words. The weekly Author Interview program that includes bestselling nonfiction books and guest interviewers. Last week then how fast whether evangelicals are choosing political power over christian values. Coming up, journalist ben will report how labs in china manufacture fentanyl. In this we can on after words, American University professor argues that america must choose to be antiracist and work toward building an equitable society. I realize that no matter the racial group, when a person is antiblack and thought there was something wrong with black people, they spent their time intellectually and in terms of organizations trying to civilize black people or attack black people, attack everything that the real problem which is racism. And thats how it literally functions. Not on the ideological perspective. Then they came to how a policy, i think it is absolutely a case that black people have limited amount of power, whether it be white people, but to say no black people have no power is just not true. And even to also say that even 100 years ago when we did not have all these black elected officials and did not have a black person on the supreme court, and have assessors and so on and so forth, we also have the power to exist. In some of us use that power and some of us did not. Typically those who did not did not because they felt a problem of black people. We are still working through all that, but ultimately caused me too realize that black people can be racist to particularly to black people. And ultimately racism was real. After words at 10 00 p. M. In eastern and pacific on cspan2. All previous after words are available as podcasts and to watch online booktv. Org. The new cspan online store has book tv products, but a cspanstore. Org to check them out. [inaudible conversations] good evening. I am steve with the Public Affairs and a want to welcome you and thank you for being with us tonight, and thanks to rainy day books,