Transcripts For CSPAN2 Former DHS Secretaries Testify On Homeland Security Threats 20240714

18 years ago this week the epicenter of ground 0 makes todays program especially meaningful. I know many of you toured the museum last night, some for the first time. The events we chronicle here, the lives we remember and the aspirations we embrace for a world free from the scourge of terrorism are inextricably linked to the work of this committee and the topics you will discuss today. Here at the 9 11 memorial and museum we testify to the largest loss of life resulting from a foreign attack on american soil and the single greatest loss of rescue personnel in a single event in american history. Our exhibitions and programs recount the collective experience of profound shock, unprecedented vulnerability and overwhelming grief caused by the attacks. Yet visitors take away more than a cautionary tale to remain vigilant to continued threats by sharing the manifold expressions of courage, compassion and service in response to 9 11. This museum also affirms the best of who we can be. As human beings. From its inception the 9 11 memorial and museum vowed to honor and preserve the memory of all who were killed. Two days from now this memorial will host as we do every year a solemn ceremony to arc the anniversary of the 9 11 attacks. In recent years, our understanding of what it means to remember has had to evil with a tragic recognition that for far too many 9 11 is not past history at all. For the survivors, responders, rescue recovery workers, relief workers and volunteers and community members, exposed to hazards and toxins in the aftermath of the attacks, 9 11 is an all too present reality. The massive 16 acre recovery effort of this site lasted 9 months including on may 30, 2002, with ceremonial removal of the last column standing behind you in Foundation Hall. During that time as well is on the day of the attack, hundreds of thousands, estimated 400,000 responders and survivors, workers and residents were exposed to hazards and toxic dust released into the air at and around the World Trade Center. In the 18 years since, thousands have died, tens of thousands more suffer injuries and illnesses sustained at all 3 attack sites including the pentagon and the crash site in shanksville, pennsylvania. The scale of the 9 11 Health Crisis is almost inconceivable. Over 97,000 People Living in all 50 states and in 434 of 435 congressional districts currently enrolled in the cdcs World Trade Center health program. This tragic situation exemplifies what we call here the longitudinal impact of terrorism, its ongoing human toll. In just two years we will mark the 20th anniversary of the 9 11 attacks. For the witness generation, it is unbelievable the two decades will have passed which are memories of that day are still that vivid. There is a new generation growing up in a world that in so many ways by a pivotal event they could not experience personally. Some are in college, some are starting their careers. If, as someone recently remarked, the 21st century started here, we must ensure that the next generation and generations to come understand the significance of the events and legacies of 9 11 so they have the tools and the perspective to negotiate the challenges ahead. National security, the topic of todays meeting, is among the greatest of those challenges and it is a programmatic focus of this memorial and museum as evidenced by this mornings hearing, the museum has emerged as a vital convening space in which to explore issues of global security, counterterrorism, crisis leadership and Public Service. We provide specially tailored Training Programs for professionals in Law Enforcement, intelligence and the military and we regularly offer Public Programs on security, defense and foreign policy. The museum also hosts an annual summit on security bringing together leading voices on Security Matters from across the public and private sectors. Our next summit takes pl. November 12th and 13th and will kick off with keynotes from former dni director dan coats and our chairman, mike bloomberg. This years summit will also offer an opportunity for attendees to preview the next special exhibition documenting the more than ten years and for osama bin laden. If youre interested in attending the summit or would like to visit this exhibition at another time, please let me know. Standing here, sitting here in Foundation Hall at the heart of ground 0, we are witness not only to the remnants of what was destroyed but to the promise of a better future. This is now the foundation at ground 0. A place to build up from and create a safer world for our children and our grandchildren. Thank you for being here today and for your dedication and service to a singularly critical goal. Please be seated. This hearing of the Senate Committee on Homeland Security and Government Affairs will come to order. I would like to start with a brief moment of silence to honor the memory of those who lost their lives on this terrible day, and the First Responders who continue to lose their lives to diseases they contracted in acts of heroism. Thank you. I would first like to thank Alex Greenwald and everyone involved in the creation of this special place, i would like to thank the Memorial Museum for hosting this hearing on Hallowed Ground and providing a sobering and moving and educational tour for Committee Members and staff last night. I would like to thank everyone for attending what i hope will be a thoughtful and informative event. In particular i would like to thank three of the former secretaries of Homeland Security, secretaries Michael Chertoff, Janet Napolitano and johnson and their service to this nation. We truly appreciate it. The title of this hearing, 18 years later, the state of Homeland Security after 9 11, describes our goal, to look back and assess what has transpired since that awful day, what actions were taken, what has and has not been effective. Most important, what has changed. In 2011, the 10th anniversary report card by the Bipartisan Policy Center focused on the extent to which the 9 11 commissions 41 recommendations have been implemented. The report concluded with a reminder that, quote, we have done much, there is much more to do. Much work remains because we are living in a world of rapid and dramatic change. It is essential to acknowledge that the world even all, enemies adapt, new threats and problems emerge. For example, if isis existed in 2011 it wasnt on most peoples radar. We are worried about largescale plant attacks by al qaeda. A group using video and social media to inspire lone wolf terrorists, i doubt the creators of the internet and social media platforms ever contemplated how their innovations could be used for such evil. In his book, robert bork illustrated how the internet provided an opportunity for previously isolated deviants to connect to others. Social media has sped up the process Daniel Patrick moynihan described as, quote, defining deviancy down. We experienced a proliferation of homegrown violent extremists, Mass Shootings and domestic terror attacks. Another dramatic shift involves illegal immigration. In 2011, only 3098 unaccompanied children from Central America were apprehended on the southwest border and the phenomenon of families exploiting our laws, we were not even keeping track. 11 months into this fiscal year, 69,000 unaccompanied children from Central America, 432,000 family members have been apprehended with most claiming asylum and being allowed to stay. I use these examples to highlight the evolving complexity of the problems we face and our inability to effectively address them. Unfortunately, there are not Many Solutions as easy and effective as hardening. The chairman of this can be, i have attempted to guide us through the problemsolving process, gather information, properly defined problems, identify root causes, establish achievable goals, and then, only after completing that work, begin to design workable solutions. Too often in the political realm solutions are directed toward unachievable goals and do not reflect reality. The 10th anniversary detailed implementation of the 9 11 commissions 41 recommendations but those were solutions in response to 9 11. In 2015, this committee as Ranking Member tom coburn issued a report reviewing the department of Homeland Security, detailed 544 million spent by dhs from 20032014 and criticized the department for, quote, not successfully executing any of its fine main missions. As an aside let me mention what those 5 missions are. Prevent terrorism and enhance security, secure and manage our borders. Enforce and minister our immigration laws. Safeguard and secure cyberspace. Strengthen National Preparedness and resilience. In that report as harsh as it was does not reflect the current secretary, secretary johnson or past secretaries. He calls that report the management skills and unity of effort, unity of effort initiative. Still a pretty harsh assessment and after 18 years it is necessary to ask hard questions based on experience. For example dhs too big . Does it have too Many Missions . Can you expect one department to be responsible for national disasters, domestic terror attacks, Cyber Security, protecting infrastructure, enforcing immigration laws, securing the borders, investigating counterfeit currency, protecting government officials . Not only does the list go on but in addition to operational responsibilities, dhs points to 92 committees and jurisdictions plus plus 27 caucuses, commissions and groups. A complex set of problems our nation faces will not be solved with heated rhetoric in the midst of political squabbling. It will require individuals working together in good faith as members of this committee have done so often in the past. That is why i am grateful a Bipartisan Group of senators has the opportunity to be here today to learn from a Bipartisan Group of former secretaries. Through this work i hope we can evaluate past successes and failures and use these assessments to guide future actions and policies designed to secure our homeland. I thank the secretaries and look forward to your testimony. Senator peters. Thank you for convening this important hearing and thank you to Alice Greenwald and the National September 11th memorial and museum for hosting us today. Im grateful to our former home integrity secretaries for joining us to share your thoughts as well as your expertise. This hallowed space is quiet and peaceful today. We are surrounded by the remnants of the towers that were destroyed and the treasured memories of 2977 lives taken 18 years ago at the World Trade Center, the pentagon and shanksville, pennsylvania. My colleagues and i had the opportunity to tour the museum and the memorial yesterday and we experienced this extraordinary tribute to the lives that were lost in the most devastating attack on american soil. Tribute to the families that lost their loved ones and the First Responders who so bravely ran into danger to save the lives of others. Behind us is the last column, the final piece of steel that was removed from ground 0 after the 9month recovery effort had ended. It stands as a monument honoring the 441 First Responders, police, firefighters and rescue workers who gave their lives in the line of duty. This week we remember and honor the lives lost september 11, 2001. And we reflect on the lessons weve learned in the years since as we work to prevent a tragedy like this from ever happening again. In the days following september 11th our nation felt for the first time we were vulnerable to the dangers in a volatile world. No one knew what the future would hold. Only that we would rise from the rubble united and resolved to be stronger than ever. It was out of that uncertainty and determination to protect this nation from future attacks that the department of Homeland Security was founded. The new department which rapidly grew to be one of the nations largest federal agencies was comprised of nearly 2 dozen large and diverse agencies many of which operated for decades as independent actors. In the face of tragedy these organizations each with unique cultures and histories coalesced around a single and focused mission under one banner. The department of Homeland Security was created with one primary mission in mind. Combating the scourge of terrorism and making sure we could say with confidence never again. However, in the years that have since passed as the world around us is changed so too have the challenges facing this great nation and this vital department. Dhs confronts a new generation of persistent and evolving threats more complex and diffuse than we could have imagined a few years ago. With each passing day our world becomes more interconnected, cementing the Important Role Cyber Security plays in our everyday lives. A rise in violence done by racism, religious accommodation and other hateful ideologies has altered our perception of domestic terrorism and the threat they pose. One of the gravest threats to National Security does not fly a flag or adhere to an ideology. Climate change poses an accidental threat not just to the United States but to our entire planet. That affirmative Homeland Security is our first line of defense against these and many other challenges, some of which have evolved or risen since this department was created. As threats to our homeland change, so must the efforts to protect our National Security. With nearly two decades of Lessons Learned the time has come for clear id assessment of what has worked and what needs to be improved. As we reflect on what the department has accomplished today we must consider the size and complexity of dhs can keep pace with constantly evolving threats of a rapidly changing world. To build a more Sustainable Department and defend ourselves from Global Threats we must look to the future. It is not enough to understand the threat of the moment. We must ensure dhs is prepared to anticipate those threats arising in the future. This is a difficult conversation but one that we must have to keep our country safe and ensure that we never again face a catastrophic event like september 11th. Thank you, senator peters. It is our tradition to swear in witnesses so if you will stand and raise your right hand. These were the testimony will give before the study will be the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help you god . The seated. Our first secretary is Michael Chertoff, founder and executive chairman of the Michael Chertoff group and covington and burling. Michael chertoff was the second secretary of the development of home integrity serving under george w. Bush. He left the department in 20052009. Earlier in his career he was a federal judge on the Third Circuit court of appeals and was head of the Us Department of committal justices Criminal Division. Michael chertoff. Thank you, mister chairman and senator peters and members of the committee. I deeply appreciate and am honored by the opportunity to appear before your committee and particularly in this setting which is so meaningful. I also know a number of Senior Security officials from the state of new york, the Fire Department of new york and the port authority, which of course is the organization that has this facility. I also would like to request respectfully my written testimony. Objection. I have personal memories of september 11th. I was head of the Criminal Division and within minutes after the second plane hit the tower in the World Trade Center i was at the Operations Center in the fbi with fbi director bob mueller trying to figure out first who had done it and more important how do we stop it from happening again. I have vivid memories of hearing about the plane that went down in shanksville, also having heard the transmission to shoot the plane down and necessary. Something i never imagined i would live to hear. Within a matter of days after september 11th i was here on the site with the attorney general and the fbi director and you could still experience the smell and visual sites of the destruction which were almost unimaginable. For me, this is an opportunity to remember, the whole country, the whole world, a seminal event in our lifetimes. It is very appropriate to use the impending anniversary as a way to honor those who died, and those who volunteered to run into harms way to try to protect victims of this attack, firefighters, police and in weeks and months and years after words, those who left the comfort of their homes to volunteer to join the armed forces to continue to protect us against an enemy that was based overseas. Im also mindful of the fact that we are coming up on 20 years, a generation of time has passed since september 11th. I think about the fact that there are now young folks in college for whom this is a history lesson, not a vivid memory. Of course the question naturally arises, when the next generation comes on the scene, what will they be facing and what will they remember and will there be another similar event to reflect upon . That is to my mind the importance of this hearing. What is the next generation going to face and how do we adapt ourselves to what that might be . I have basically three brief observations about this. One, i regard the 9 11 events and so many after is what i just call terrorism 1. 0. The vision of high impact events with large mass casualties and very dramatic visual scenes of destruction and death. And i have to say the department and the whole United States government has been quite successful in making sure an attack of that scale has not been successful since september 11th. We came close a couple times. Some of you will remember the august 2006 airline plot which would have blown of 12 airliners. It is important that our success not lull us into complacency. Because the enemies of this country still have the possibility of a massive tax, whether it is explosions, chemical attacks, or biological attacks. As we saw in the months after 9 11 if you give terrorist organizations a safe haven, they will begin to experiment with chemical weapons, biological weapons and other kinds of weapons of catastrophe and it is important that we deny them their safe havens and in connection with that as we look at ongoing discussions with respect to the future of afghanistan, lets be sure we do not sacrifice our ability to strangle any plots to recreate the Training Centers before they get started again. We have seen more think of terrorism, what i call 2. 0 or 3. 0, 2. 0, smallest air attacks like we saw in dubai or the nightclub in france which are coordinated and trained, and even more alarmingly, 3. 0, inspired attacks, where people are incited over the internet to go out and pick up car keys, guns or make bombs using materials in their mothers kitchen in order to kill people randomly just in order to keep a marker that terrorists will continue to attack. We have not only g hardy terrorists which are networked internationally with each other but we are seeing other ideological terrorists, what we sometimes called domestic terrorism whether it is White Supremacists or other kinds of ideological groups. Even those are not fairly domestic. They are reaching across borders to incite each other, to boast about the number of people they killed and continue to carry out these attacks. We need to think about strategies to deal with this kind of terrorism which to my mind involves local authorities and local social services and also the creation of off ramps, ways you might intervene with people who are beginning to get into that mindset and diver them before they are in the criminal Justice System or worse carrying out an attack. The third area we need to focus on his cyber warfare, use the iran somewhere attacks on our cities, shutting down services. We have seen in other parts of the world like ukraine attacks on critical infrastructure, we need to raise our game with respect to this and it has to be a publicprivate partnership. Along these lines we are beginning to see what used to be called active measures which is the use by foreign adversaries like russia of social media and other tools to influence and disrupt our democracy and inseparability. And dhs has succeeded in mission set out for ourselves, we havent had another 9 11 and the Organization Must continue with the new challenges and new threats. I think most recommendations of the 9 11 commission were adopted but i do have to say Congress Still needs to streamline oversight which is the one major suggestion which has not been implement it. G questions. Sen. Johnson thank you. Our next secretary is former secretary Janet Napolitano, the president of the university of california. Ho got some great rankings recently in the wall street poll. She served as secretary of the department of home and security from 2009 to 2013. Under president barack obama. To serving as secretary, she was attorney general of arizona from 1998 to 2003. U. S. Attorney for the district 1997. Zona from 1993 to secretary napolitano. Ms. Napolitano thank you. I want to thank you for conducting this important field thank you, chairman johnson and Ranking Member peters and members of the committee. I want to thank you for conducting this important field hearing and for inviting me to participate. I am grateful for the work you do a map of the American People, and im honored to be with you this morning. The National September 11 memorial and museum. 18 years after the attacks come such a 11th remains a somber day on which we mourn and reflect on the nearly 3000 lives lost in the attack on our nation. As we honor the memory of those whose lives were taken on that fateful morning, so, too, express our gratitude to the First Responders, Law Enforcement and volunteers who pull people from the wreckage of the pentagon, from the World Trade Center, and who themselve themselves, maybe later succumbed to illness or died as a result of thefo recovery efforts. Id also like to thank the many women of the department of Homeland Security for the work they do to keep us safe day in and day out. They are true patriots and im grateful for their service to our nation. And finally i would like to acknowledge former secretary chertoff and johnson who are here today and his ably led the department during their respective tenures. From the beginning of my tenure as secretary at dhs we focused our mission on terrorism, Aviation Security, cybersecurity, and Border Management and security, as well as the security of the Global Supply chain, the trafficking of goods in humans and the resilience of the nation to Natural Disasters. To meet the challenges we relied on intelligence to develop and implement effective programs and operations while working to make travel, trade, and commerce more seamless for the public. We created tsa precheck and significantly expanded global entry, Customs Trade Partnership against terrorism, and customs preclearance. We also transform Border Security, Immigration Enforcement and disaster preparation response and recovery. But as we all know and as the former speakers have alluded, threats against our homeland are not static. They evolve, and we and the Department Must adapt withwi th. So today i would like to speak with you about three areas that i believe the country must focus on, cybersecurity, mass casualty shootings, and the effects of Global Warming or Climate Change. Will address one issue that i believe is not a threat to the homeland, the United States border with mexico. With the cybersecurity and infrastructure security agency, dhs hasuc stepped up to its cybr capabilities, but we have much more to do in this area. Our nations critical infrastructure, its utility grid, election system at a public and private networks all are vulnerable. Our adversaries and International Criminal organizations have become more determined and more brazen in the efforts to attack us and to steal from us. We need a whole of government and whole of public and private sector response to this threat. And it needs to happen now. Those who seek to do us harm by among other things, investing in our Nations Research enterprise and leveraging such things as the tremendous capabilities and intellectual resources at the department of Energy National laboratories. The less technical threat of mass casualty shootings is no less consequential than those posed in the cyber arena. Maine in our country is sadly grown all to a custom destroys of yet another mass shooting. Dhs office of intelligence and analysis was created to evaluate the nexus between threat and vulnerability. It needs to be aggressive in doing so with respect to gun violence and mass casualty shootings. I believe in the second amendment, but it did not contemplate citizens with combat ready assault rifles. I believe people should be able to use weapons for recreation, hunting, and protection. But if you cannot hit your target with ten shots, you should notot be shooting a gun. It is time for congress to ban highcapacity magazines and assault weapons, and it is time to enact universal background checks. Its also time for congress and dhs to recognize that Climate Change is adh generational thret to the homeland that must be addressed in a meaningful way. The uptick and extreme weather events on land and on our shores clearly impacts the missions of fema and the u. S. Coast guard. From rescue and reconnaissance to disaster preparation, response, and recovery, our changing climate requires dhs to approach those missions differently. Climate evolution also implicate our border andat immigration system, thereby directly affecting uscis, cbp, and ice. Extreme weather is destroying crop yields in central and south america, devastating economies and drying of jobs in gainful employment opportunities. With lost jobs in lost wages, the aperture towards radicalization widens, as does the drop of more northward migration. There are many factors that lead to migration to the United States, at the downstream effects of Climate Change are certainly among them. If we as a nation failed to address Climate Change in in a holistic and global weight as the threat to the homeland, we will be ignoring one of the nations and the worlds greatest security risks. And finally i would like to address the topic i do not believe is a threat to the homeland, u. S. Border with mexico. Ive worked on issues related to the border for nearly 30 years as a prosecutor, a governor, and the secretary of dhs. Ive walked it, written it on horseback, floated in fixed and rotary wing aircraft, explored its tunnels, and visited almost every land port of entry. There have been times during my three decades of Public Service when i did argue that the board was a threat, but now is not such a time. The border is a zone where millions of dollars of lawful commerce, trade, and travel traverse each day. It produces jobs for citizens living along it and throughout the United States. On its own it iss an economic engine. Proper borderr management requires a blend offr physical infrastructure, manpower and technology. What we do not need and what doesnt make sense is a wall from one end of the border to the other. As governor of arizona i once proclaimed show me a tenfoot wall and i will show you an 11foot ladder. That was more than a decade ago, and it is still true today. The debate about a costly and needless border wall should come to an end. It distracts from the Overall Mission of dhs. It is a red herring. I urge this committee to consider putting an end to discussions on the border wall, and to return your worthy attention to more immediate challenges of securing our homeland. Im grateful for the opportunity to appear for you today, and like secretary chertoff and secretary johnson, i look forward to your questions. Thank you, secretary napolitano. I would ask you to turn off your microphone. Only through these big operating at one point in time. Our third secretary is warmer secretary jeh johnson whos wha partner with newark citybased law firm of Paul Weiss Rifkind wharton and garrison. Mr. Johnson to the secretary of the department of Homeland Security from 20132017 under president obama. Prior to serving secretarygeneral counsel for the department of defense in 20092012 and the Department Df the air force of making 982001 and an assistant United States attorney for the Southern District of new york from 19891991. Secretary johnson. Chairman johnson, Ranking Member peters, members of this committee, good morning. Welcome to new york city, my hometown. Accompanied by my predecessors, Michael Chertoff and Janet Napolitano, i welcome the opportunity to testify at this field hearing in lower manhattan. In conjunction with the 18th anniversary of 1 the 9 11 terrorist attacks. Senator johnson and carper will recall that on the 14th anniversary of 9 11 they accompanied me to the annual observance in shanksville, pennsylvania. Like millions of others, 9 11 is painful and significant to me. I am a new yorker. I was in new york city on 9 11 and i personally witnessed the collapse of the two towers. 9 11 also happens to be my birthday. Out of that day 18 use cocaine my personal commitment to National Security. In the years that followed as the chairman noted i i served s general counsel of the department of defense, and azure secretary of Homeland Security for three years. Three years ago onsi the 15th anniversary of 9 11, i presided at the ceremony to welcome the federal Government Back to one World Trade Center. My dhs office in new york city sat on the 50th floor of that building. As a point of personal privilege, id like to acknowledge someone here who is probably one of the five best friends i have in the world, roger perino, retired new York City Police detective. Ive known him for 30 years. We worked drug cases together when i was a prosecutor and he was a cop. He was one of those who ran into harms way 18 years ago on 9 11, and for his action was awarded the medal of valor by the mayor of the city of new york. Any assessment of todays Homeland Security must include an assessment of todays department of Homeland Security. I confess that i view todays dhs with despair and dismay. The department appears to be under constant siege and constant crisis, suffering from management upheaval and leadership vacancies and crippled attack and constantly sued for the abrupt launch of the open sea controversial immigration policies. More so than ever before dhs is galvanized and politically radioactive. There are public calls for a boycott of private businesses that contract with dhs. While certain elected officials call for the outright elimination of certain components of dhs if not dhs in its entirety. In the current environment it is easy to forget that dhs is responsible for the Vital Missions of protecting the American People and their homeland from the land see air and in cyberspace. Their homeland from the land, sea, air, and from cyberspace. Coast guard performs vital airtime safety, National Security, and counter drug functions. The secret service protects the president and others. Tsa provides Aviation Security to over 2 Million People per day. Fema is the nations Disaster Response agency. The end kick is the u. S. Governments primary Information Exchange hub for the nations Cyber Security. These are matters in which politics should play little, if any, role, and around which there should be bipartisan consensus and support. Yet the department, and its leadership, appear to be overwhelmed by the politically contentious and emotional immigration mission and the crises that have existed on the southern border to the exclusion, i fear, of all these other important Homeland Security missions. For the nations Cabinet Level Department, charged with rotected the American Homeland and its people, it should not have to be this way. I know every member of this committee agrees with that. Mr. Chairman, i am very appreciative that you and the members of this committee have held this hearing here in this hallowed place, in this bipartisan spirit. I look forward to your questions. Sen. Johnson thanks, secretary johnson. Normally, i would defer my questioning, but in my Opening Statement, i asked a generic question with what i consider a lively discussion last night, so i will throw it open to all three secretaries. You have alluded to it as well. When you have a crisis, whether it is three hurricanes and wildfires, when you have, as i described, the flow of primarily children but also family members reaching thousands in a year, and you all served as secretaries how can you handle it when you are overwhelmed in one area and have this department that has so many Different Missions . We will start with secretary chertoff and go down the line. Is dhs too big . Does it have to Many Missions . Should we reevaluate how it is structured . Should we reevaluate how it is structured . Let me say, mr. Chairman, i appreciate the question. Let me begin by saying first of all, fortunately the secretary doesnt have to do everything himself or herself. I have to say one of the strengths of the department has been the professionalism of the career people who work in all f the agencies, and that was something which i was able to rely upon during a very tumultuous fouryear period. I would so you can tweak element of the department, but honestly particularly as its been matured by my successors here and subsequently i think the ability to have unity of effort where you bring the resources and skills relating to prevention of terrorism, to reducing vulnerabilities, i think that is much more of a positive that a negative. Response in resilience. I think that is much more of a positive than a negative. There were debates over whether to treat cyber as a separate agency. In my experience in government and the private sector, often the attacks we view as Cyber Attacks come along with a physical attack. The ability to protect your infrastructure requires you have a holistic view, what we call convergence, rather than a fragmented view. I would argue that the key is to continue to build and mature the unity of effort and to maintain tradition, which i think we have had, through a number of of having a nonpolitical, relational operator carrying out the Important Mission of protecting the country and building resilience. Secretary napolitano. Yeah, i agree with secretary chertoff. And you know, i would note that when the department of defense was created in the wake of world war ii, most analysts say that it took over 40 years for the department of defense to really become integrated. The department of homeland much younger than that. It has many more missions. But it is maturing, it is coming together, and the efforts spent tweaking, moving one box here, one box there, would not be worth the effort. I would suggest, respectfully, that one area that could really help the department would be to streamline congressional oversight. I know that is delicate and requires committees to give up some jurisdiction, but the committee on Homeland Security has a tradition of operating in a fairly bipartisan way and being a very good overseer of the department, and it needs to push some of those other committees out of the way. Sen. Johnson thank you. As you know, youre preaching to the choir here. Thank you. As you know you are preaching to the choir. This committeeee actually passea deal to begin that process. Im completely sympathetic with it. Again, your voices will be important to get that accomplished. Secretary johnson. I have the most recent experience here. In answer is, in one sentence, its too large, and in one sentence it is not large enough. Prior to dhs i confirming the general counsel for the entire department of defense which is larger than dhs i multiples. The department of the air force or the department of the navy and of themselves are larger than dhs. Nd its the Third Largest Cabinet Level Department. But its too big in the sense. Ing ts missions are very diffuse, very decentralized, cultures are vastly different. The ulture of fema versus secret Service Versus the coast guard, and the command and structure of dhs lacks maturity of the dod. So one christmas, i set out to every person dhs lacks in dhs who was directly reporting going and just kept going, thinking of people who report directly to me. Stop. On i had to there were so many people that i felt like i had to write to. By contrast, if you look at the department of defense, there is, example, somebody, a Senate Confirmed undersecretary who has oversight function over all intelligence missions, and so, except for the component leaders, and there are seven or them, there is no middle Level Management really those people and the secretary. Congress leased that just before or after i left the joint task structure that i created so we ould have more of a dodtype model when it comes to Border Security. Thing i would say is, in one respect, i think we actually need to go further. Like to see our government, and this is probably unobtainable, consolidate more of the federal aw enforcement missions under one cabinet level person. Would uld wave a wand, i take every federal Law Enforcement agency, put it under official, not vel necessarily the attorney general, who is the chief and de conflict all of the missions, much like they do in ministries of the interior in other nations, but, you know, its probably politically impossible to do that. In that sense i dont think weve gone far enough, law lidating our enforcement mission. I know there is discussion of possibly moving the secret back toto the treasury, the treasury department. I would not do that. Secret service is essentially a Law Enforcement agency and when youre talking Operations Security like the general assembly, it makes a lot of sense to have the service as part of one Cabinet Level Department with fema with the coast guard, and one pair of eyes and one pair of eyes and ears looking at all the threats and all the different ways someone can enter the country. I really appreciate those responses. K i think its important testimony. They can and should carry an awful lot of weight. So thank you. Senator peters. Thank you, mr. Chairman. While the department was established in 2002 in response to an attack planned and directed by Foreign Terrorists organization, since then we know that the country and the Threat Landscape has evolved dramatically. In recent years domestic terrorists have killed more people in our country and international terrorists, and most off the fbis domestic terrorism investigations involve white supremacist violence. Secretary napolitano, during your tenure you were there probably at a turning point when we saw the Threat Landscape change in the current wave of White Supremacistsur violence. Id be curious as to your assessment as to how you address that, what more you think we need to do where there are impediments and i would like to hear from the other sectors as both in terms of how we deal with this significant threat were facing now. Yes. So one of the manifestations of this threat is the radicalization of loan actors throughst the internet. Radicalization of lone actors through the media. Et, through social when we dont really have a good about what causes somebody to read something all the way tera, up to going out and purchasing a and taking weapon it out on their fellow citizens. To me, we need to do much more in the sense of motivations the behind these violent actors. Need to involve more local, Law Enforcement and social trying to viders, in find, as in trying to find, as secretary chertoff said, off ramps for these individuals. And we clearly need to prioritize these kind of domestic terrorist events in the sense of the threats facing the country. Secretary chertoff . I agree with that. First of all we need to recognize that in many ways what i call terrorism 3. 0. Oh which are the inspired jihadi terrorists that we saw, weve seen in various things, for example, in california are very similar to the white supremacist terrorists who were inspired to carry out shootings in synagogues. A capability networks of people who are very ideological, to find like beginning le who are to move in that direction, and to incite them to carry out acts violence. And, as secretary napolitano said, we need to understand that. To recognize, this is a global challenge. Its not just a domestic challenge. You look at some of the recently, eve seen weve seen references to the supremacist, the Christ Church shooter, where they essentially look for an along that line from the network around the world. So this, to me, is not just an this to me is not just an american issue, but its an issue we have to deal with involving our partners overseas as well. Secretary johnson . My first, second and third answers are gun safety, gun safety, gun safety. The on that, continued good Law Enforcement, initiatives to counter violent extremism at the federal and local level, grants from the National Level the state and local Law Enforcement, which include active Shooter Training exercises, support for active Shooter Training exercise which i think every important. And public vigilance, public awareness, various, if you see something, Say Something campaigns. Dhss partner with the number of cities, number of professional sports teams, public awareness, public vigilance does make a difference. Secretary johnson, you mentioned gun safety, gun safety, gun safety. Theres a number of actions we could take the one that may be before the congress this week is to expand background checks. Would you support that . Do think its necessary . Id like to hear from others as well. Support anything consistent with the second amendment. That has bipartisan support. That makes it more difficult for a deranged, violent person to get his hands on a gun. Specifically an assault weapon. Secretary napolitano . I think that universal background checks is a good step towards greater security for the country, but it is a first step. Secretary chertoff . I agree. We ought toof have universal background checks and in a similar vein, socalled red flag laws where, when someone winds up behaving in a way that is suggesting they may be amended, that we actually remove their access to any firearms they have. There are some of the things we well, as secretary napolitano said. Im not sure why we needna to be selling magazines with 100 rounds. If you cant hit the bird with a firstin, you probably shouldnt be hunting. Secretary johnson and i just over a week ago sent a letter to dhs with our Homeland Security Committee Colleagues regarding allegations that this administration has quietly dismantled or cut back on alterable programs that were created after september 11, attacks to detect and prevent terrorism, specific programs operated by the departments countering weapons of mass destruction office. So my question is id i like th ofli you give a brief opinion on your assessment of the nations current readiness to prevent a chemical, biological or radiological or nuclear attack. We will start with you, secretary johnson. I haventt been pretty to intelligence or nonpublic information obviously for the last two and half years on this. My sense is that its a threat that we have and we continue, should continue to monitor, among a range of threats. But its obviously not the only threat. I dont on a daily basis with the threats of some of the things that mike referred to in terms of smaller scale terrorist inspired attacks, but this type of threat that you describe, senator, something we need to keep to be vigilant about. Senator, i agree. We need to maintain vigilance. We need to understand that active intelligence sharing, realtime intelligence sharing with our allies around the world increases our security in this area. To the extent we are dealing with weapons of mass distraction that are manufactured abroad but are attempted to be smuggled into the United States. So the intelligence sharingly internationally, globally should not be overlooked as an effective tactic or technique to help secure the country. I agree with both secretaries have said. And as i sit in my Opening Statement come when i was secretary we did worry quite a bit about chemical and biological, biological attacks. Afghanistan, when we entered, we found labs where al qaeda was to developng, trying these kinds of weapons. The good news is, by reducing isis, weve of reduced the territory in which hey could carry out that kind of work. But i think complacency is a risk here. And again, as we talk about the would of afghanistan, i not want to see that become a safe haven again, where we could these erimentation with kinds of weapons. I would also like to mention which, to my mind, till remains maybe the most proficient terrorist organization in the world which a regime that certainly has moved in the irection of wmd, and again, we need to be and again, we need to be very careful in sharing intelligence with our allies to make sure that hezbollah does not become an attack vector with some of these weapon. Thank you. Senator romney. Thank you, mr. Chairman, and thank you to those that it helped organize this event at the place where we can remember and mournan and honor those who stepped aerobically in to save others, and we can mourn the many, many, not just that were killed on 9 11 but those in the years after who have been so devastated by the effects of their heroism. I appreciate the testimony of each of the secretaries and your willingness to be with us today. You acknowledged in our discussion last night that in some respects we play the role of a policy loop. As a committee we have the opportunity to help guide the leadership at the department of Homeland Security. The area of Cyber Threats has been mentioned by each one of you as being a major area of concern. And id like us to dwell for a moment on that. Secretary napolitano, you indicated that perhaps more health to department of laboratories would be more helpful. You also that you also referenced Public Private partnership. There is no doubt the to protect various entities from cyberattack. Secretary johnson, you indicated in your written testimony that deterring actors from attacking us, cyber actors, is something we should pursue. Perhaps we will begin with you then secretary johnson and have each of you respond to what we might do to up our capabilities in deterring Cyber Attacks. Specifically im thinking with regards to your testimony. How can we deter those entitys that attack us . China, russia, north korea, iran. They continue to launch hundreds, thousands of the tax on technical databases, government databases, corporations and so forth. Is there some way we could do a better job of deterring that . And for all of you, how do we up our game in cyber beyond where we are today . I think its a basic equation. In myjo experience, all nationstates, all organized nationstates can whether their democracy or monarchies are communist regimes, are deterred if the behavior is made cost prohibitive. If the nationstate recognizes that it is not worth the cost in terms of the reaction from the arget. Between and among governments there is a certain amount of surveillance activity that goes on. Im sure you recognize the new level of the theft of property, weaponizing things for political purposes that are hack, that are stolen, and i believe that you cannot create a complete line of defense gainst these kinds of attacks, therefore we have to put it to the bad actor and simply make the behavior cost prohibitive. I think that a lot of good things have been done in this administration in terms of sanctions directed at the ussian government. And by the congress. If you believe the intelligence assessments, a lot more is necessary both directed at russia and the other countries you mention. In terms of what more we can do on the defensive side, on my watch we really enhanced the capability of the which is ithin dhs. It is the information hub for Cyber Security. I was disappointed that not more private sector actors had partnered with dhs for information sharing purposes. I recommend to congress that you so i would recommend to congress that you check in on that occasionally and you see which you can do two more encouraging that type of information sharing. Yes. I believe that nccic is about the resource at the department for bringing together the public and private aspects of cybersecurity. Sc cyber is a complicated topic. Its international in scope. The Technology Changes faster than we can change laws or policy. It requires an agility and nimbleness that is truly not the hallmark of government. Not commn government. That is why it is important to bring the private sector in two how we deal with cybersecurity s a country. We need a whole of government a whole nation approach this area. We need to recognize that it is among the top three risks we face as a nation. When you read the 9 11 commission report, one of the key critiques it makes is that they were reverse engineering how the 9 11 attack ccurred. The report points out all these red flags that had arisen. They said that a key critique is that the government leaders suffered from a failure of imagination. In a cyber arena, we have all these red flags now. We should not entertain such a failure of imagination. Perhaps it is time for the country to have a 9 11 commission for cyber before we have, for example, massive Ransomware Attacks simultaneously conducted around the country, or where we suffer once again i direct attack on our democracy as we saw in the 2016 election. So let me just add this. I mean, the challenge here is that much of the infrastructure is in private hands, and even when its incumbent hands its often distributed and local governments and sometimes even the basics do not get done. Ibutd and local governments. Often the basics do not get done. Youre trying to herd cats in a particular direction. I would say there are three things i might pay some additional attention to. One is i do think that the department has made a good step forward in standing up cease up what used to be the nppd and be more operationally involved. None of the things that would help would be to give private sector actors more access to private information. Right now it is hard to pass the test that is a requirement that you have a need to know request for information. It has nothing to do with whether or not you are a reliable person, it is just whether or not you need to know. If youre a contractor, it is an easy thing to satisfy, if youre running infrastructure gets difficult. I think changing the mindset on that and opening up the aperture for information would be very helpful. I do agree we need sometimes, articularly with nationstates, to be able to impose a cost. I would like to be candid. The structure in terms of how we escalate is still very undefined. What we do not want to do is accidentally trigger a war because we overreact to something. Think there needs to be serious thought, and perhaps some hearings on the question of what is the appropriate scale of escalation in response to certain attacks. Finally, i think we need to look at what i would call industrial policy as it relates to technology. Mike mcconnell and i did a piece on this a few weeks ago. We do not have a policy to encourage u. S. Or allied businesses to invest in Critical Technologies that we need to control in order to make sure the chinese dont own us. You see this play off with 5g right now. Where while way with government subsidies is pushing out 5g round the world. We go to our allies and say dont do this. I have done this myself, a lot of times what we hear back is you cant beat something with nothing. What do you have that is better and cheaper. Part of the problem is we have not facilitated a market in that kind of technology. We do it in a defense business with a Defense Industrial base. We do in a defense business with a Defense Industrial base. I would argue we need you now have a policy like that with what i would call the czech National Securitybased and that a think would would be well worth looking at. Senator carper. I want to begin, mr. Chairman, and two senator peters, thanks so much to you and your staff are for really g up with this idea and for us to have been your last night and have an incredible movie, inspired to worth led by the very gifted, talented woman who leads this organization and is done so for more than a dozen years. What to think everyone who is part of this team. All of the volunteers who probably serve here, too. Its important we never forget what happened here all those years ago. If we use our memories of those that tragic day, we also look forward. And look forward in ways we have been talking about here too we also look forward and look for in ways we been talking about here, today. We are fortunate to have three of our Homeland Security chairs, past chairs who are here. I had the privilege as a member of the street to work with all of you, secretary chertoff, napolitano, johnson, i consider friends, and just wonderful Public Servants in many, many roles. Not just here. I had a chance to work in this thing as well. We got also secretary john kelly, we all know john kelly, retired 4star p marine general who served briefly, to briefly i think, and succeed by Kirstjen Nielsen and now with kevin mcaleenan. You are all good people. I think all Exceptional People and your leadership has been a blessing for not just the department but our country. I want to ask you a quick question about leadership and leadership churn. When jeh johnson was secretary, tom coburn and i met with him and said you have all these holes. Look at the Leadership Structure of Homeland Security of the deputy position, deputy secretary, assistant secretary on down the line in our muscles. It looked a little like i call it swiss cheese. We worked hard to do something about that. Secretary johnson, would you reflect on that again in context of whats going on today within the department of Homeland Security, the leadership . Thats kind of an unpleasant memory. There were a lotjot of vacancis when i stepped into the department of december 2013. You and i and tom coburn spent time talkingng about that and it was impressed upon me during my confirmation that we really need to fill the vacancies. And so that was probably my top priority, since i took office. There were a number of Senate Confirmed vacancies at the time. I think that we benefited from filling those vacancies in rapidfire by i think that much just about every job had been filled with the Senate Confirmed person. There is a virtue in having a Senate Confirmed president ial appointee in a lot of these component leadership positions. Its more job security, and when you go through that process you recognize you are accountable to the present but also to other degree you are accountable to the congress. When youre any Senate Confirmed position, they are all terrific people, when youve been confirmed by the senate, you are in a position to provide the president with honest and candid advice, sometimes that he doesnt want to hear. And i certainly got the benefit of that from our dhs leaders once they were in the job. We had some terrific people as you know. Crates you gave is of the first to come to mind the work with jan also, and craig to take needed almost no oversight for me. He was a National Asset picky was first rate and really did a lot to restore fema to the position that it now holds and occupies. I believe then, and i believe now, filling the vacancies in this very Important Agency has got to be the number one priority of the the president d the congress. Thanks so much. If you consider the threats to our homeland, we talked a little bit about terrorism, huge threat. We talk about cyber, also a huge threat. We talked about illegal immigration, and i agree with secretary napolitano. The movement of folks, across the border from honduras, wada mall and el salvador, thats the real cause and we address too often the symptoms. Wehe need to also address root causes thats causing folks to come here. But whether the issue of threat is terrorism, cyber, illegal immigration, Climate Change, we cant do theseim by ourselves aa nation. Its got to be a team. I always like to say we are a team. Would you just talk w about the importance of relationships in cooperation with our friends and allies from around the a world, secretary chertoff, janet . When i was in office we had great relationships with our allies overseas, even when the was a little bit of Political Tension and their sometimes was, for example, around the war in iraq when themi Bush Administration was not necessarily popular with the person in the street in your period on an operational level i very close relationship with my counterparts. We worked together. We exchange information. I mentioned the august 2006 airline plot. Working with my counterpart john reed and what a very small number of people in the u. S. In this, we were able to coordinate and stop what wouldve been a devastating plot, and do it in a way that was minimally disruptive. Likewise, even if i travel around a lot and i meet senior officials from foreign governments, and they are hungry for American Leadership and for american values. Ioi think its very important, particularly that the congress emphasize our commitment to our allies and friends around the world. Thank you. Yes, senator. I think the name Homeland Security in a way is a misnomer, because if you wait until a threat actually reaches our homeland, you may be too late. And it requires the department to have good alliances around the world for realtime intelligence and operations, port security, passenger screening, cargo screening. That happens abroad. And so the department really needs to be able to look outward as well as inward to improve our overall level of safety and security. And it would be benefited if the country was seen as actively engaged and welcoming of these alliances as well. Thank you very secretary johnson, just briefly, please. I agree. Antisemite. [laughing] appreciate that. Senator scott. Chairman johnson, senator peters, thank you and your team for putting this together. I want to thank alis and and it here at the 9 11 museum and memorial for hosting us here. I want to thank each of the prior secretaries for being here. This this is a solemn time in or nations history, that they was. I was in the city on september 11 and saw the devastation inflicted on our nation. Unfortunately its so impacts a lot of people, who survives him First Responder many of the families of the victims. I want to thank each of you for your hard work. You can continue to be proud of the department of Homeland Security for everything to do to keep us safe. I was just in the bahamas with the coast guard. They are right now saving quite a few lice from Hurricane Dorian aftermath. I was just at the border, the mexican california border, and you can be very proud of your Border Patrol for what theyre doing to protect our homeland from drugs, weapons and terrorism. One question i have for each of you, as you go back to a lot of discussion after 9 11 was federal agencies didnt court coordinate derivation very well. I just finished eight years as governor and i i watched the sae thing continue to happen. We had the pulse nightclub attack. We at parkland should come with five People Killed at the airport in Fort Lauderdale and we had three, i think three People Killed in the yoko studio right before finished finish m. In every casehr yoga the federal government had tips chd it wasnt followed up with. To this date no one has ever been able to explain to me why and if anybody has been held accountable. And so are we any better position than we were after 9 11, or do we still the same issues that federal agencies specifically in those cases the fbi are still not coordinate information with other federal agencies and local governments . So each of you, give me your ideas. From my perspective from my perspective its much better than it used to be. I think that our intelligence committee, come our Law Enforcement community does a much better job of connecting the dots than it used to, though im sure that there is more we could do to get better at this. In my experience i had been impressed with the level of information sharing. I think a lot depends upon the personnel is at the top of each agency. If the personalities att the top have a good collegial relationship, that trickles down to the people who are sharing information, particularly in the intelligence community, i will say originally i was not a fan of the creation of dni. I thought it was an extra and unnecessary layer of bureaucracy in our intelligence community, but i saw how jim clapper really made it work, when i would get an intelligence product every morning. It wouldod come from multiple intelligence agencies. They would be courtney depended, there might be this sense and i thought that processed worked well although the low different agencies in alphabet soup the forgiving as these products. I adopted the practice if there was a dissent in an intelligence report, i would bring the analyst up towr see me, the one who wrote it and well talk it over and very often you would realize it was a lot of difference. While the overall impression is that we are doing a much better job then we certainly did on 9 11, but it depends a lot on the personalities at the top. [inaudible] i do think intelligence sharing is better. Its always a goal. Its never perfect. I agree with secretary johnson. It depends in part on leadership from the top. From Homeland Security perspective, i think that one of the focuses should be effective intelligencece sharing in to the state and local lawenforcement and five at and that sure is a work in progress. I would agree with that. One of the challenges that we are facing is, as we are dealing with these inspired terrorists who were operating at the local level, its often owing to be the local authorities who get the first word. And just as we have in nctc thats ordinate among federal agencies, i think the fusion centers, which dhss stood up for state and locals, ought to perhaps have a Broader Mission i can to look at the issue of domestic terrorist and not only the jihadist terrorists. What would each ofis you like the private sector to do that its not doing today dealing with Homeland Security . Let me begin. Id like to see more investment and more coordination on cybersecurity. Most of the assets that can be attacked are in private hands. Some companies have done a a vy good job of stepping up, but a lot of them just hope some one will take care of the problem for them. I agree. Thank you. Senator hassan. Thank you, mr. Chairman. I want to thank you and Ranking Member peters for your continued attention to the issue of Homeland Security, and for convening this hearing today. Id also like to thank all of todays witnesses for their lifelong dedication and attention to public safety, and for your efforts to protect our citizens and keep the homeland safe, secure, and free. Those thanks also go to everybody whos here from local and state Law Enforcement. Homeland security is a team effort, and its emission, and im very, very grateful for all of your efforts. And a special thank you to the 9 11 national Memorial Museum. Ms. Greenwald, to your staff, for hosting us on this Hallowed Ground. It is such a moving tribute to all of those who perished nearly 18 years ago today. I, like many people on the panel, have a lot of memories about 9 11 but i think the most significant one for me was the feeling i had when i picked up my then eightyearold daughter from school. And realizing how much her world had changed. As i sit here i am once again overwhelmed by our countrys profound loss that the date ane sacrifices made by First Responders, the military and civilians. And by their lovedil ones. In some ways 9 11 9 11 changedr country forever, but our response reinforced who we are. We are strong. Sere a kind. We are resilient. At times and places such as this one, we are reverent. And we will fight for a protect our freedom. I wanted to turn to all three of our secretaries, because i been dealing at home in New Hampshire with members of different housee of worship who are now increasingly concerned for their safety. No wonder things that you have to fear for the life when you visit the house of worship for reflection and prayer. And sadly, as we talked about over the past few years, americans have witnessed an increasing number of threats to and fun attacks on houses of worship, both at home and abroad. These threats are not confined to major metropolitan areas. Over the past months i have visited with members of houses for ship in New Hampshire and heard about the disturbing threats that they ands theiron communities have received. One rabbi noted that not only open the doorsrs to the temple shortly before services begin, and lock the doors shortly after the start ofei services. In addition to being concerned about that limitation, on the openness that we should market house of worship, this rabbi says, as surely to competition from those minutes when the doors are open, she wonders, is this the night we die to ask a few of t these houses of worship received a small amount of funding from the department of Homeland Security Nonprofit Security Grant Program in order to secure them against these threats. But not all who apply for the grants were able to get them. There is much more to be done to keep houses of worship in New Hampshire and across the country safe, secure, and free. Secretary chertoff, the Nonprofit Security Grant Program was created during her time as dhs secretary. Secretaries napolitano and johnson, the program continued to expand under your watch, but so have the threats. Can each of you share with me your thoughts about how the congress, the department, and the entire federal government can work to keep soft targets like houses of worship safe from threats . And secretary chertoff, whyti dont we start with you . Well, on issues, this is like been a challenging issue and houses of worship are very sensitive. We had seen in schools and we seen it in commercial establishments. And it is impossible to lock down everything and have a free society. I do think the grants health and to do think frankly ive observed during certain holidays in various houses of worship that please sometimes are hired to do some overtime into some protecting. Some of it is training and advising people about what to do if theres an active shooter, for example. And the third piece of this hass to be again better intelligencec sharing. But i would be keeping you if i would say theres absolute way to stop this kidding you. This is a question of risk mitigation. I dont think you can getet risk elimination but we always do the best we can. We on not going to let the inning the be the perfect of the good. I think theres a real insight into what secretary chertoff said. We cant lock down an open society. What we can do is to help mitigate risk. The Grant Program helps, active Shooter Training helps, additional local Law Enforcement resources during particular holidays may help. It really requires using a menu of approaches. Theres not one single approach. Secretary johnson. So the grants program you mentioned, what i was struck by when i would look at the grants every here is, the program was well known in certain communities but not others. Right. Certain communities had figured out year after year how to apply, how to get the grants but it was not well known enough across the full spectrum of organizations it was intended to help. And so i hope that we have moved in in a direction where theres larger awareness over the last couple of years, and at something i i suspect cargo can help with in your respective states and districts. So perhaps congress should consider raising the level of funding for these types of things because i agree with your assessment of the threat. Thank you. The other thing i wanted to touch on is something that others have mentioned too. Guest . The other thing i wanted to touch on others mentioned, too, on the issue of Cyber Threats. I wanted to look at locally, almost every level of government including strafford county, New Hampshire and weve seen attacks across the country. Is there more to do to assist with deterring, preventing Cyber Attacks . One thing that could be done is to have locality do some basic things to secure their infrastructure, including things like, for example, having backups. Like for data. Its not going to eliminate the problem, but its going to reduce the issue. The impact. Yeah. Yeah, helping mitigate the risk is important and, also, i think we ought to be exploring what the federal government can do and is doing by way of atr atribution so an appropriate response can be constructed. I think the single best thing anyone can do in that situation is raise the level of awareness about security among the people that use the system. Youd be surprised the number of people who dont know how to respond to a suspicious email and a lot of these attacks begin with an act of spear phishing. Somebody opened an email that they shouldnt have opened. And raising the level of awareness of people we trust with the system. Im pleased to report that our county officials did recognize a phishing email when they got it and had a pen and pencil backup system and its something we need to focus on. Thank you for your service and for your testimony here today. Senator. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Secretary johnson can i ask you one more time to tell us about your special guest with us. Roger perrino, sitting there. He doesnt like to be the center of attention. He is a marine and i met him when we worked drug cases together 30 years ago and on september 11th, 2001, he was a new York City Police detective working in midtown and saw what was happening, ran into harms way and frankly was almost one of the people we had a moment of silence for and was the recipient of the medal of valor from the mayor. Went on, as my recommendation, to be appointed by Governor Cuomo to be commissioner of Homeland Security for new york state. Thank you for that. And detective, commissioner, i thought it would be appropriate we might take a moment to honor you because i notice as i look around here, i see men and women wearing the uniform of the United States. I see some of new yorks finest here. Ive got to talk with some of the families of the survivors. This building, this place thats such a monument to the courage of folks like you who put on this uniform and who protect us every day and who return towards danger, and here you are a living monument to that. I dont want to miss this opportunity to say thank you for what you did. And to give everybody here a chance to say to you, and to all of you here in this building wearing uniform, who are protecting us, who are serving us, thank you for protecting us. Thank you for representing the best of new york and the best of north america. So thank you very much, detective. [applaus [applause] i do want to raise an issue now that has not been raised yet, but is extremely important to, i believe, the security of the American Homeland and certainly to the security of my state. I represent the state of missouri. I spent part of my time in august when i was home in missouri travelling around to the most economically distressed communities, counties, in my states. 114 counties in missouri, and i chose to visit some of those that dont normally get visits from the press and media and so forth. And something that every single person, every single one in every Single Community that ive visited told me about was the epidemic of drug abuse that is crippling and killing entire communities, literally killing, families, schools, its unbelievable. And in my state, its overwhelmingly meth and its coming according to the federal government, it is coming overwhelmingly across the southern border. Just according to the 2018 dea National Drug threat assessment report, most of the meth available in the country and certainly in missouri is produced in mexico and across the southern border. Missouri has seen an increase in treatment admissions, in the last years, according to the Health Services administration. Its hard for me to describe to you, unless you were to visit, and to see what this epidemic of drug abuse is doing to the towns and families and schools in my state, what a crisis this is. And so i want to ask about, what we can give voice, first of all, to that crisis and ask what it is we can do to address this very real crisis thats being driven by what is going on in the border. And secretary napolitano, let me start with you. I think i must have misunderstood you. I read your testimony and i heard you say in your opening remarks, that you did not think that the border represents any threat to the homeland. I must have misunderstood you, surely you couldnt have meant that the people in my state who are losing their lives, losing their children, losing their family members, the Law Enforcement who are completely overwhelmed by this epidemic, that its coming across the border. I mean, surely that constitutes a threat to the security of the people of this country . I mean, dont you agree with that . Look, i think the border, as i said, its a zone to be managed. It is certainly an area where Law Enforcement needs to be engaged in terms of drug smuggling and gun smuggling and the like. It requires a whole of government effort. It requires partnership with mexico in terms of how the ports themselves are managed, and thats where when smuggling occurs, the bulk of it occurs through the ports of entry. It requires using the best Available Technology for inspection of vehicles and for manifesting of cargo and the like. Like. But what i mean to suggest is that the border itself is not the number one threat to the safety and security of American People despite the overwhelming public attention being drawn to the border as the function of dhs. But you think that it is a threat . You said if your testimony both this morning and in your written testimony you didnt think it was an a threat at all. Not the number one threat, but no threat, that it isnt a threat to Homeland Security. I cant understand that and what concerns me about it is, it seems to be increasingly the position of some members of your party who say its also not a threat at all and i just, i dont understand how that can be the case given the threat that my state and the people in my communities are facing. If we dont do something to stem the flow of Illegal Drugs across that border, i dont know what these folks are going to do. And i just dont understand when people say its just not a threat. I think we need to look for areas of agreement. But a threat, we can agree on that. We can all agree that we deserve a safe and secure border, that the border needs to be enforced and you wont get any question about that from me. The way i wrote my testimony, however, was to say that the border is a zone. Its a zone to be managed. A zone to be managed in terms of threat, but it is not the number one threat to the safety and security of the American People. When you talk about drugs, right, and i understand Opioid Epidemic and the meth epidemic, i was a local state prosecutor, i was a federal prosecutor, i understand this phenomenon very well. I reach out and sympathize, empathize with the people of missouri and other states across this country who have experienced the did he have station caused by this epidemic. I think what we need to be looking for is how do we prevent the importation of drugs, how do we deal with addiction as a disease, as a country. Thats really where the threat is, not in terms of overall Border Management. Not in terms of a wall between the United States and mexico. Thank you, mr. Chairman, i see my time has expired. Thank you, senator hawley. We do not have time for another round of questions so i think this could go on literally for hours. I would like to afford all three of you an opportunity, if theres something we didnt discuss, to talk about it and as we discussed last night and i think its pretty apparent here today, the fact that youre willing to offer your time, your counsel, your advice, first of all, this committee appreciates it and wed appreciate in the future. That is a solid offer, i mean, i would love to have you work with us to move this country forward, but why dont we start in reverse order with secretary johnson, if you have a few closing comments, please make some. As a former public servant, i guess i would plead with all of you who are today in the United States congress in positions of power, what i have observed happening over the last couple of years is, we dont seem to have, except at levels that the public doesnt appreciate, we dont seem to have enough opportunities to reach across the aisle and achieve something that requires Political Risk and is politically hard. It wasnt that long ago that we came very close to comprehensive Immigration Reform. The Senate Passed it by 68 votes. With a lot of democrats and a lot of republicans. On the recognition that Immigration Reform included both path to citizenship, daca, take care of the dreamers, and Border Security, and smart Border Security and people on both sides of the aisle were willing to coalesce around both those principles and a lot in between. What i observe happening now is very few people are willing to do that anymore and everyone is standing in their corners screaming at each other, as the positions on both sides become more and more absurd. To the disservice of the American People, you were elected to serve. And that is reflective of a lot of other issues, in my judgment and so my plea, as a private citizen, is to tone down the rhetoric. I think this committee in particular is an excellent place to do that because i do know that you try to operate in a bipartisan way. Please tone down the rhetoric in washington to take care of the peoples business, thank you. Thank you, secretary johnson. Secretary knapp. Secretary napolitano. I think the greatest service this committee could give is to provide a strategic oversight of the entire Homeland Security enterprise. What are the greatest risks facing the country . How are they best mitigated . What resources are necessary to make sure that we are as safe as we can be albeit we will never be riskfree and we live in an open society. But i think if this committee can occupy that overall kind of board of directors role, it would serve the department we well. Secretary chertoff. Well, mr. Chairman, id be delighted to accept your invitation to continue to work with the committee on these issues. You know, it means a lot to have this hearing here because i vividly remember in the days, hours and days and weeks after 9 11 how the country came together, and we recognized that this wasnt an attack on people of one party, one religion or one National Origin, but on all americans and i remember being with congress a few days afterwards in the house chamber, both the senate ap the house present, republicans and democrats all unified in terms of their attitude to this. I had one of the privileges i had as secretary was to go to camp victory in iraq and swear in new american citizens wearing the u. S. Army uniform. They came from all over the world, some of them actually from the region, all religions. They were legal, they had green cards and they qualified for citizenship and they stood in uniforms, not far from where there was live fire, taking the oath of american citizenship and to me, thats what america is about. Its what binds us together, its not National Origin or religion or ethnicity, but belief in a common set of values. So i think its important when we think about Homeland Security to recognize it begins wi wi with unity of effort not just in the department, but that ought to be requirement number one for everybody to reemphasize and to underscore that we are a nation bound by common values and a common constitution and that is what makes us great. That is what motivated the people that weve celebrated in this hall and thats something that we need to continue to cherish and uphold. Thank you. Senator peters, do you have a few Closing Remarks . Thank you, mr. Chairman for holding this hearing and your staff who has done an outstanding job putting this altogether. I also want to thank greenwald, as well as your tremendous staff and amazing place that allows us to pay honor to those who lost their lives here and also, they continue to educate us as to what happened here and why we must never forget and make sure this never happens again. I understand your job is going to become more difficult as the next generation comes along who looks at this as history, not something as vivid as in the mind of minds of all of us today. If we dont educate the next generation, it leads to potential to happen again and thank you, thank you for having us here. And the secretaries, for your testimony today, and i thank all three of you in your wrapup said it extremely well and something that i take to heart as i work on this committee, thats to understand the department of Homeland Security has one of the toughest jobs you can possibly have in the federal government because you have to do, you have to do two things, firstoff, you have to keep us all safe and to me, thats the number one job of the federal government, to keep americans safe from harm and thats got to be first and foremost on the mission. But you also have to balance it with the things that all three of you mentioned, the values that have built this country, that we are a free society. What makes the United States so special is that we are an open and free society. And we have to endeavor to keep americans safe while also protecting constitutional rights, to protect civil rights. Thats a balancing job thats incredibly difficult to accomplish and one that were going to have to constantly work at to make sure that we can achieve that right balance. The other thing we must do for the department of Homeland Security, while youre keeping us safe, you have to make sure the economy is robust and moving forward. So i know the borders in michigan, some of the busiest borders in north america, the folks there have to keep us safe while making sure that commerce is getting there on time and our just in time deliveries for the Auto Companies are there when they go on the assembly line. Any kind of delay ripples throughout the whole supply chain so they are watching that very closely, but at the same time youve got to keep us safe. So this is a very, very tough job and i thank you for your service to the country. I thank you for your willingness to continue to work with us, because as we deal with a rapidly changing world and rapidly changing threats, its always important to step back and remember where we came from, understand the lessons that we learned in the past, so that we can apply those lessons to the future. So thank you for your service. Thank you for being here. Thank you, senator peters. Again, id like to start again by thanking the secretaries. Its an overwhelming job. Its a responsibility each one of you assumed and every secretary assumes. Its hard to contemplate. Youll just get blamed for failures, dont get a whole lot of credit for success. So i truly appreciate your past service and again, your willingness to consult this committee in the future. Again, i want to thank Alice Greenwald and everybody who has worked on this amazing and remarkable place. If youre an american watching this hearing, come here. You need to be reminded, its true, we can never forget and the thought that went into this place, as we walked down into this chamber, the way those First Responders did, what really struck me were those pictures of the people that day in new york all fixated on the exact same thing as we were told two billion other people around the world watched in real time the tragedy of that day. But as others have remarked, we have the First Responders, we have members of the military. To me we had a great dinner last night and we all went around the table. I think it was senator peters and senator romneys idea, lets go describe what you were doing 9 11. Those of us alive remember it and for my part, in oshkosh, wisconsin, looking at the tv and making probably the exact comments that probably two billion people made or thought, this changes everything. But then in the days that followed that, the pictures that emerged of the firefighters, the port authority, the cops, the new york city responders walking up the steps, rushing into danger to save their fellow americans, as we watched the finest among us, the men and women in the military also respond and volunteer and go halfway around the world to not only defend our freedom, but literally, trying to develop freedom and liberty and democracies for people, they have no idea who they were. Thats something pretty unique about america. Were not perfect, but i happen to think that we are phenomenal force for good in the world and in the midst of tragedy and not just 9 11, every mass shooting, every hurricane, every Natural Disaster always seems to bring out the examples of the goodness of the American People. To me, thats what this hearing is about. This is what our responsibility is to not only preserve this good nation for future generations, to make sure that thrives, thats our responsibility. Thats what we dedicate this committee to do. So again, i just want to thank everybody for attending. I want to thank everybody for their service, and really, just conclude by saying, god bless america. Now, i have to read the magic words the hearing record will remain open for 15 days until september 24th at 5 p. M. For the submission of statements and questions for the record. This hearing is adjourned. [applaus [applause]. [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] the house will be in order. For 40 years, cspan has been providing america unfiltered coverage of congress, the white house, the supreme court, and Public Policy events that washington d. C. And around the country. So you can make up your own mind. Created by cable in 1979, cspan is brought to you by your local cable or satellite provider. Cspan, your unfiltered view of government. The u. S. Senate is meeting today to consider several nominations, including Foreign Missions Office Director who keeps track of foreign diplomates in the u. S. , office of personnel director and Veterans Department deputy secretary. Senators will vote on confirmation of nominees at 11 eastern and start on debate of several more, including a Federal Reserve member and a number of federal judges. A number of nomination votes is set for this afternoon at 2 45 eastern and throughout the day remarks are expected on the 18th anniversary of the 9 11 terrorist attacks. Now to live coverage of the u. S. Senate here on cspan2. The president pro tempore the senate will come to order. The chaplain, dr. Black, will lead the senate in prayer. The chaplain let us pray. Eternal god, you are our defender and hope