[inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] hello, everybody. I we good to go . My name is mark, until recently i i was ceo of the Nature Conservancy. Im really delighted to be here to be the moderator of todays discussion. We have great panel to my left is monica, senior fellow at the Peterson Institute for international economics. To her left is daniel, director programs at the climate and landuse alliance, and then on the screen is my good friend peter, the cofounder and ceo of and new ngo focused on a lot of issues that will be discussing today. It is also well known as the founder and longtime ceo of Conservation International where he continues to the chairman. Our topic today is the Global Impact of the amazon rain forest. You been reading about in the news you can of course so many issues. First of all whats really happening, its hard to tell on the basis of the news, how much of this is due to illegal logging or industrial agriculture or bad government policy or is Climate Change itself impacting the forest . Also question arises what happens . Until recently the amazon was on of the great conversation Success Stories through a great effort of the brazilian government, local government, brazilian growers and ranchers, international companies, international ngos. One of the great Success Stories the conversation field used to boast about was bringing d4 station wait at any amazon but thats change. What happened . Another question on my mind, important to discuss at the council on Foreign Relations is what cant International Community deal . Who really owns the amazon . Most of it within brazil, not all of it but its impact on the rest of the world especially visavis the climate challenge is huge. Where are we in terms of Tipping Points . We know as Climate Change progresses or worsens, like it can accelerate that outcomes. Ivory coast conducted in the amazon . There are a whole host of other issues. What about the other amazon countries . What about the role of Indigenous People and impacts on Indigenous People . Or biodiversity itself. We are going to try to touch on all those issues. I could ask questions for about 30 minutes and then well open it up to all of you, okay . Peter, are you all set . Can you hear us and everything . Can you hear me . Sound good. I will start by asking dan to just give us an assessment of where things stand. I think its hard to know by reading the paper. Whats causing what right now . What is the role of fires, logging, big ag, ranching, policy . What is deforestation stick with the outlook . Are we at the scary Tipping Points Jair Bolsonaro thanks, t, mark, thanks an opportunity to be here with all of you. I think were all here because of these fires and d is for station the spinning news in the amazon over the past several months deforestation, peakg in the summer in august. Its important to put a bit into the context, fires occur all the time within the region, part of land clearing. I think its really important though to know in brazil in 2019 these fires were not induced by Climate Change. They were not driven by drought. Through the end of august this year the 2019 try season, which is over now, was about 50 wetter than what weve seen in the previous few years. Yet on average we had about 50 more fires during the same time. So the fires were not driven by drought. The drought season, the number of dry days were fewer than the past. The fires, naturally first thing i want to take on from here. The second thing is these were fires that occurred deliberately for the purpose of deforestatio deforestation, for the purpose of land clearing. Most of that, and when i say most, estimates are 90 of that is illegal. Perhaps 30 of that is driven by speculators who were clearing public lands. This is a complex criminal enterprise in brazil in particular with many variations that are all aimed ultimately at selling falsely legitimated cleared lands at a huge market. About another 30 occurred on private properties. Mostly exceeding limits on deforestation that were agreed to in brazil in 2012 under a major revision of brazils poorest code. That was agreed to by all of the major agribusiness associations in brazil. Another 20 was likely small farmer clearing mostly on poorly managed reform settlements. At about 10 occurred in areas that have no designated ownership, unlike the first category, thats really all about land speculation. You can find all these data, there in technical notes prepared by a group called Amazon Institute for environmental research. Overall, these are official data that just came out this morning, year on year deforestation increased in the brazilian amazon by 30 this year over last year. So nearly 10,000 square kilometers. Thats the official data. Its the highest in the past decade. And it goes, but its important to know that doesnt cover the time were talking about which mostly emerge beginning in august because the deforestation year in brazil goes from august 1 one to july 31. Thats weve had several square kilometers cleared since then between august, september and bit into october. The third point i want to make is that this mostly illegal deforestation and the fires associated with it both began and ended with the support of executive branch of the brazilian government. Which has prioritize this current government has really prioritize the undoing of 15 years of governmental progress in deforestation control. The fires peaked in the second and third weeks of august following what were to liberally organize fire days in parts of the amazon, which are pretty much an open secret within the responsible government agencies. But what happened then was knowingly counted on a huge amount of smoke reaching so paul, and blackening the skies in the city of sao paulo for about four days. And following that later that month following what youve already got about a lot of controversy and international fronts, president bolsonaro sit in the army and declared a 60 day moratorium on fire in the region, which point fires stop being set. And the fires diminished and ultimately the dry season ended. But Government Support is responsible for both starting and ending this problem this year. So its not climate, delivered turn on and off by Government Action and inaction. Work asked for me to Say Something about this issue of Tipping Points that is, in the news quite a lot, and suffice to say its a very complex. Around the science, but the consensus as more and more data are emerging is that we are very, very close, particularly in the southern and eastern parts of the basin to Tipping Points where the combination of landuse change and Climate Change will mean that forest will not go back. We are seeing the conversion of large areas and tropical forests, savannah like tropical ecosystems over the coming years. So having said that depressing statement, i will turn a bag over do. Let turn to monica. Monica, given the challenge what are the options the International Unity faces, and the brazilian government, how can this challenge be addressed . So starting with the International Community, i think theres one area where not a lot has been done, not a lot is perhaps a fairly infamous way of putting it. That has to do with payments for Environmental Services. Of course conserving the amazon come concerning the amazon in brazil, in the of the countries that the amazon spans is a service that is provided to the rest of the world. Because as a term that has come out that some people use and i particularly like, we can go into the explanation of this term from is the amazon is really a carbon bump in the sense that it retains a lot of carbon under the soil. And the moment that you start d4 sting, this carbon is released into the atmosphere in very, very large quantities. So the service that is being provided by keeping the fourth in fact, is that of keeping all of that carbon underneath the ground. And it is an issue of how to actually set up payments for this kind of Environmental Services which would be very beneficial from the point of view of incentivizing governments, particular governments that have recently taken different stances on deforestation. It provides a powerful incentive for them to change the policies back to one of preserving and conserving. This is an area where the International Community have to think more about and has to do something about. Because in essence we are talking about an entire wyoming that has this characteristic bio maintaining carbon underneath the soil and the services which are global in scale are not being paid for. So that i would say is one area that the International Community needs to think hard about. There are other things like the amazon fund, for example, which is chiefly an initiative that was spearheaded by norway and germany, but largely norway, and did serve the purpose of trying to do a few things in conservation and deforestation within the amazon, but we know the size of the amazon fund is small, you know, in relative terms. And at the moment there are issues with the amazon fund and the government of brazil. This is another area where some thought has to go into sort of what do we do with the amazon fund . Do we make it larger . To ask for more contributors from other parts of the globe . What can they effectively do . How do we set up a Good Government structure for this fun if it is to become much larger, and now do we do this in continents with the current brazilian government wants. As for the government of brazil specifically, there are lots of things that, and then reference some of them we know there was a huge period spanning from 2004 until about 2014 just before 2014 [inaudible] they fell dramatically because policies were put in place and so we knew what to do to reduce deforestation because we tried in the past and these policies worked. The monitoring, the very sophisticated satellite imagery monitoring Law Enforcement and coordination of several of our mental agencies in brazil. But also measures like, for instance, i take like this measure, the central bank of brazil in 2008 instituted a resolution that essentially created, because in the Amazon Region rural credit is essentially, actually and a lot of in the Amazon Region specifically, world credit is essentially provided by public banks. And so what the central bank did was institute a blacklist, lets say, a district within amazon or anissa pedaled his within the amazon where deforestation rates were occurring at a much higher pace and where there was evidence that farmers, local farmers were not meeting the environmental regulations and the environmental norms. This blacklist, so anybody who is put on this blacklist was essentially shut off from credit markets. They were not receiving any kind of access to credit. And according to a lot of research thats been done on this initiative alone, that measure, just that measure serve to reduce deforestation by about 20 in different parts of the amazon and in different parts of the amazon where it was applied. Those are things like this that are already worked, in essence you carrots and sticks, and you have policies and things that have worked in the past. This Bank Resolution image is still in effect. So it could be used once again. It hasnt been revoked. Its just the current government is not moving in that direction, is not using these tools that has available to it. In fact, one of the thinks it has done is dismantled to some extent the capacity of the monitoring and the Law Enforcement ability of environmental agencies. Thats where we are. Thank you, monica. Lets turn to peter. Peter, there are a lot of additional issues. I know you been focusing on them. The other amazonian countries, the role of china, the role of indigenous gamers in the amazon. How did all those players get into this storyline . Pretty directly. [laughing] i would say that part of the driver of deforestation, of course that weve talked about, is agriculture towards him whether its solely or whether it is beef. So if you trace where the fires are taking place, and what commodities are being grown and where those companies are going, you can see direct correlations. Theres an increase in delivery to europe and an increase in delivery of soy in particular to china. Beef to china to russia to egypt. So theres a direct correlation between this increase and actually the tariff war between the United States and china, which has resulted in a decrease in the importing of soy and be from the United States to those of the countries. Number one, theres a Global Economic connection. Number two, its really intriguing to me as that the amazon, which is 880 million hectors, onethird of that, or 30 of of that actually is under the guardianship of recognized indigenous protected areas. Sure the constitution of brazil is actually very clear as to the rights of Indigenous Peoples. As a little bit of an aside, president bolsonaro has stated in speeches that the institute that he admires the most in the United States has been the u. S. Calvary because of its effectiveness in eliminating indigenous native americans. So what is happening in brazil now is not only is 30 of the amazon under indigenous guardianship legally, but the government has said those areas need to be accessed. We know we cannot do it legally that we will look the other direction. And so what is happening is an assault on Indigenous Peoples rights. Whats interesting about those Indigenous Peoples is that they are very effective in securing the help of these large ecological territories that are the own. In fact, if you look at maps right now to look at an overlay of fires with indigenous territories, indigenous territories are actually the most secure of the territories actually resisting invasion of fire and agriculture. So Indigenous Peoples play a very, very Important Role in securing the help of the amazon come at a schutze its not just the amazon. Until about 35 of the entire terrestrial earth is under the garden ship of Indigenous Peoples, and those are the territories on this planet that contains about 70 of the intact ecosystem. Direct correlation with commodity price, direct correlation with Indigenous Peoples. And thats just the state of the world. So weve got some important allies in Indigenous Peoples, and we also need to be looking at those organizations that are directly involved in the financing and the trading of commodities so that we can get at the heart of how to solve some of these problems. Id like to comment for just a second something that monica talked about, which is this concept of payment for ecosystem services, and the enormous role that brazil plays in terms of carbon captured sequestration. About 5 of the the co2 that is human caused is absorbed by amazonian parks. So there is an outsized role that the amazon place. And when you look at solutions, when you to look at both whats in the selfinterest of the brazilians in terms of not allowing a Tipping Point so that that forest becomes savannah, which would be devastating to the agricultural and precipitation at agricultural productivity within brazil itself. And so that in the selfinterest of brazil to keep that forest standing. But the waters and precipitation that emerges from the amazon doesnt just a in brazil. It actually goes up to atmosphere rivers to benefit midwest United States. So there is a strong argument that this is a global good and it should be a common there should be a concerted, thought the way to balance the benefits to brazil and the benefits to the rest of the world. So i would just say that, its a complex question for sure, and its a very difficult question right now in terms of how you address the challenges in brazil. Its no less complicated than the challenges we are facing in the United States in terms of the political world. I wish there was an easy solution. There is not. Thank thank you, panelists. Really interesting. It reminds me in my time at the Nature Conservancy the way i think about this is welcome we wish that federal governments were doing more to address the climate challenge but for a variety of reasons they in many cases seem to be backing away. Ngos i think are doing everything they can. I think there are limits to how much an ngo can deal. But then i thought about the private sector and said how can we get the private sector to do more . Well, you know, during the time of success producing deforestation the private sector both international and Brazilian Companies played a very big role in helping brazil understand in their self, enlightened self interest to get this right. What can we do is that a lever that is available for us now . Can the panelists imagine somehow global multinational food companies, Commodity Traders and their brazilian counterparts can take stronger action, boycotts, these kindsf things . Because you would think that would get the attention of the coming fast. They care about the economy in general. They care about agribusiness. Is there a potential there . What do you guys think . Happy to kick off that part of the discussion, mark. There is, as pete and monica mentioned, really clear evidence that there is self interest, if we are looking the level of a kind of national selfinterest, public selfinterest. This period of decline in deforestation of the decade roughly from 20042014 in brazil was accompanied by actual increases in revenue and protection from agriculture from the very same places where deforestation was going down. Thats because as occurred in the u. S. , you know, 150 years ago, ago, you close this agricultural frontier. Innovation increases, and action itself increases under the conditions. What that requires though is it requires investment and it requires actors that are functioning within the bounds of the legal system that is imposed in a democratic society. What we have now in brazil is just this huge amount of illegal activity. Its not that the whole sector is acting illegally. Far from it. There are many, many good actors in the sector, but like any other sector, even though there is a percentage of criminality that in the space. And because of corruption and because of governance challenges, that percentage of criminality is not insignificant. And it is going to continue to be acting in those ways that are in pursuit of selfinterest rather than public interest, as long as its competitively allowed to do so. And in some cases even encouraged to do so because of the challenges around corruption that are deeply ingrained in the system. That doesnt mean that there are no points of intervention. The International Business community has a huge role to play in this space that should seem selfevident. In response to the fires, in fact, a number of International Business coalitions put out a letter that they all signed that was broadly supportive of deforestation control agenda, supporting progressive business in brazil that was attended to these issues. There was an interesting sentence in that letter that said something to the effect, no Multinational Company can afford to have illegality in its supply chain. Or the risk of illegality in its supply chains. But the fact is that in Agricultural Commodity supply chains, in Precious Metals supply chains, they are full of illegalities. They say that they cannot have the risk of this, that they have this in their supply chains consistently. And seem not quite ready to rip it up. We havent experienced it from a very, very different sector that evolved over the past two decades. Sure you and the ideas here is all familiar with work done around conflict minerals or blood diamonds, where norms in commerce changed. Over a remarkably short period. So the conditions of productions associate with precious gems that were considered to be embedded in the product themselves. It is both a norm as well as a matter of, a legal matter to not purchase conflict minerals but what we have got now are conflict commodities that are in the form of whether its Precious Minerals like gold, about 90 is infected with illegality, or soft commodities that a a much higher volumes ad lower value that have deforestation in addition to the Rights Violations of indigenous and other peoples embedded in the period thats the Current Business norm that we have come not only in brazil and other amazonian countries, but throughout the global marketplace around commodities that are coming out the places in the developing world we dont have adequate governance. Panelists, how can we get those norms to change . Time is heavily on our side when we think about this challenge. Monica or peter . Go ahead, peter. I wish is going to comment on something that dan said. Go ahead. What we have right now which is extraordinary powerful tool is social media. And social media shines a powerful light on companies that do the right thing and do the wrong thing. You do not want to be seen as a predator versus a partner. And so thats really the power of the consumer. And it affects the mood, the sense of value of employees in companies when they are fashion with her compass or criticized its an enormous important tool. And that tool needs to be deployed picky needs to be focused on who is financing and who is buying. And i think that if that were to happen, you will see, thats out transformation takes place. Thats what happened with the mining industry. It was a clear demand by the public that this was behavior that could not be tolerated. European market says we will not by or be the territories. That will affect the behavior of the government of brazil. China has a policy of not experimenting with international countries. Affecting american political actions as well. The sounds that resonate in the public and intermediate. I think that everybody understands that amazon places important goal. In my understanding, brazil recently rejected aid from the g7. On the one hand, when it comes to aid it is very ill resolved. The way that countries and other governments sort of talk to the government of brazil is very important. You cannot just go in and accuse. You have to engage in a different way. Otherwise you are infringing on this issue of and sovereignty. It is inevitably going to happen accusatory type of dynamic. I think we have seen of france going overboard very, very quickly. I think there is an issue here that would have to be better dealt with. Specifically, of course, someone like the service that the amazon provides which we are all speaking of, economists call public goods. Their benefits accrue to the public at large. They are not privately accrued. Pricing public goods is the economics pressure has grappled with over years. We have managed new ways to find pricing of public goods. We need to figure out what is the best way to price foreign public goods which is carbon within the amazon. It is complicated. It is complicated. Even more complicated by the fact that you need actual coordination between the private sector and the government and different parts of the world. You do need that coordination and the world today is not towards that at all. It is going the opposite direction. It is something that we do know how to do. We do know how to price public goods. It should be something that is doable. Something that is feasible. Let me say one thing that touches on what dan was saying before. The private sector and what role the private sector can play, there is one crucial. The brazilian amazon. The brazilian constitution and what it covers. The issue that peter was raising. There are areas in the amazon where it is just not clear. It is not all that clear. That is something that the brazilian government specifically has struggled with for a very long time. Has not been able to resolve. One issue that they want to address. They have not said exactly how. Addressing this issue also involves one other thing. Dealing with, you know this incentive currently exists because of this complication which lead to deforested land being worth more than land that actually has standing forest on it. That is a recipe for speculation the type of land speculation that we have seen. It is an economic design type of thing. You can correct those distortions. Ultimately, you have to do this all within one strategy and you do have to have cooperation between the private sector and the government. Can i just add one thing . The president of columbia called the meeting in a little town which is just adjacent to the brazilian amazon. It is in the columbia amazon. He invited all of the heads of state of the amazon the end nation. All of them participated. It was after the recognition that there was an increase in fires. The only president that did not arrive was president of the narrow. He was having an operation. He called into the meeting. Out of that came a leticia packed. Now activated. Activated in terms of a conversation amongst the heads of state and the ministers of environment in terms of how do they collaborate in terms of addressing the invasion, the burnings, the fire and the damage within the amazon itself. They have the president that put together a small task force, a small group of people to actually come up with recommendations as to pathways forward. There are a few things that have emerged as ingredients for solving these. One is realtime and accurate data. Where are buyers and how do you deploy in real time brigades to put out fires. Another one, putting together a significant find for investing in reforestation. Reforestation, not only increases the carbon exorbitant, but also creates livelihoods and jobs. A third was really recognizing the rights of Indigenous Peoples a fourth was generating the revenues so the protective areas that exist can really be secure. The commodities and the Agricultural Industry to look at what are the incentives for their behavior to shift into one compliance instead of can you actually get around this one way or another. These conversations are ongoing. Brazil has not yet committed to being a formal part of this. There is a serious amount of pressure being placed on brazil just acknowledging that if you do not, this could very well affect a flow of foreign assistance. It could affect private sector engagement as you asked earlier in brazilian commodity markets. It is in real time being played out right now. We will see what the results are i just wanted to mention that they have really spearheaded this in a really thoughtful way. Thank you, peter. Lets open it up to the audience we have mics, dont we . My name is edwin. In the heart of the amazon. Part of it is natural for us that nobody touches because 300 to cut down the forest. 150. Some years ago, somebody offered me 250 mi. 2 of square miles of intact forest. I contacted lots. Spent a lot of time doing it. Conservation international sent out somebody. He came with an airplane followed by a guide, very well known for flying around the amazon. Sometimes carrying interesting substances. A very thoughtful, knowledgeable person. They found all five kinds of monkeys present in great numbers they found a sometimes extinct. And then they found the largest, they think, the largest alligators they have ever seen. Again, i was willing to buy the land. Give it to you and you simply look after it. Flew off. Nothing ever happened. The other i contacted, i cannot spend my time contacting. None of them were willing to do it. By the way, my neighbors, just died and his sons want to sell the land. 30 an acre. 35 35 an acre. You are getting intact land. Where the forest has never been cut. Full of wildlife. My experience so far is they have conferences, meetings. Nobody is actually willing to come and spend 35 bucks to buy and anchor. You can buy and do what i did. Cows in the savanna. By the way, the smoke, i dont know what happened to brazil. The smoke we are getting is a gift. It has not increased as far as we know. This is subjective. I dont know what happens elsewhere. Whoever burns the rain forest, must cover it in fuel. The forest they are cutting in brazil is would. That kind of stuff that really does try out. The actual rain forest, you cannot burn it. Do you have a question . Yes. The discussion so far reflects the fact that we have a roof onto trend population of thousands of ngos all around the world. None of this do the simplest thing. Pay somebody 10 a week. I will turn it over to you. Who knows in that particular case why they did not step up and die. I challenge the idea that that is the solution at scale here. Nonprofit ngos funded by donors to raise the capital to buy the amazon. Peter, since the gentleman mentioned your Great Organization the floor is yours. Thank you. Okay. I would like to see if the offer still stands, number one. Number two, in bolivia. The very First Initiative of Conservation International in 1987 where cia acquired debt and traded it with the government to create the Biosphere Reserve in santa cruz. It is an area of extraordinary ecological importance. I am interested in learning more about that particular opportunity. Number two, mark, i think you are absolutely right. To get to the sale of solution, it will not need the acquisition of individual properties. Just will not be able to get to the scale. You are looking at a territory of the amazon which is about 80 million hectors. I also want to say that i really appreciate the interest on behalf of the speaker. That willingness to engage in a construct of solution is really important. That is why its important to continue that conversation. Well said, peter. I agree with you. Other questions or challenges . I am from the Norwegian Embassy here in d. C. When we speak about the paying for ecosystems, i need to mention paying about 1 billion for very hard to produced deforestation. Money has been going to the amazon fund. Monica, you mentioned amazon. How do you think that we could scale up that. I am deeply grateful. I think a lot of others are deeply grateful to norway for the efforts with the amazon fund and for, you know, being the main funder, actually. The amazon fund is almost entirely norway. When it was set up, it was one of the First Initiatives by the un in the context of the un. I think it has and it still has a lot of potential. It would, of course, involve bringing other countries and in that norway has already done a lot of its share. A question of what we want to do with this fund. Do we want to make it into something much larger where you can have an impact and address the issues that the gentleman to your right has raised. You know, what do we want to do with it. What is the strategy . I think that question involves what rozelle is thinking of doing. At the moment, they do do not seem very inclined to make the amazon fund one of the main mechanisms or vehicles through which or by which you can resolve the conservation aspect and the deforestation aspect. Things seem to be moving in the opposite direction. Talking about changing the government structure of the fund they talked about doing several things to the fund that norway rightly disagrees with, and so does germany. At the moment, there is a divergence of youth in terms of those that actually find the amazon fund and provide it with the resources in the way the brazilian government is going about it. I think that we need to find some common ground. The amazon fund is really important and we do not need Something Else to replace it. We already have it. The norwegian government provided really extraordinary leadership. One of the most remarkable things about it is it has persisted from one government to the next which is just a completely foreign concept. Engaging in working with colleagues involved in running that fund for very long time. It has always been viewed as a pilot. As an experiment. Not a thing that would solve the worlds problems. One of the challenges that comes up currently when you look at the kind of scaling that monica is talking about which i think we all recognize as needed, who is going to pay for that . Where is this money going to come from . It is not all going to come from the generous government of a small scandinavian country that has five people in it. There is interest in this kind of work emerging from the private sector where we really need to be able to use Public Finance to Leverage Private sector investment. And it creates challenges. It creates challenges for the environmental community, for the private sector itself. Thinking about where does this problem come from and how are we going to solve it. One of the more interesting experiments going on now is from a space that is often considered to be the enemies of the environmental movements. The oil and gas industry. There are a number of Energy Sector companies that see the opportunity to actually be finding this kind of work in the forest sector as a means of addressing the fact that they are selling gasoline to all of us. All of us are part of this climate problem. An example of this is shell oil now in the netherlands experimenting with allowing people to pay and extra euro sent earlier of gasoline. It ends up being pretty much the same amount that the norwegian government is paying. Paying into the amazon fund. Five dollars a ton. Expanded it to encompass a large number of people who buy gas frequently from shell and the uk. They are using that money to buy credits from the highest Quality Projects that are helping to reduce emissions from forests in Southeast Asia and in peru. Theyve got tens of millions of dollars, hundreds of millions of dollars theyre planning on investing in the space. The modality, the structure could be very large scale. Around these kinds of payments. Just starting to get formed. Largely in the space of experimentation. I would surmise from what weve been seeing over the past decade. It is not going to happen based on foreign aid. This is not a problem that foreign aid is going to solve. It is a problem we are all part of. Via the companys that service our needs, we will need to be part of the solution. One actor you have not mentioned broader interreligious with the rain forests, interface rain rain forest initiative. The amazon just earlier this month. What more could be done on that . Secondly, what do you see, practical steps that is after all an enormous transnational force that might be mobilized to do something, something may have actually addressed as a priority issue. Great question. Peter would you like to take a look. Extraordinary adoration for his standing and his push and his commitment. I do not know yet whether the extraordinary inspiration that he provides to people is actually going to be converted into transformations in the way governments will behave or if its going to result in a change of the behavior of Agricultural Commodities and exploiters of forest. I do know that the sinnott is inspiring Indigenous Peoples and its inspiring indigenous activists and inspiring young people to become engaged. I think the most hopeful part of this moment and perhaps the most hopeful part of the climate week that took place in new york a couple of months ago was the raising of the voice of young people. Their inspiration and their inpatients and the raising of the voice of Indigenous People and their inpatients, i think when you get these forces coming together and when you add to that the power in the voice of the pope, it feels to me that there is actually a Tipping Point going in the right direction despite all the bad news that has been going in the wrong direction. It is hard to quantify, but i feel, globally, that there is a change in the wind and a change in the directions. We will have to use that power and that voice as well as we can that is how we vote and how we consume. If we can activate those two forces, we have a chance chance of actually changing the way capitalism in the Market Forces play. Thank you, peter. My former organization had a very big plan to bring socalled Green Infrastructure to washington, d. C. To deal with the storm water runoff challenge to do that, we needed a big real estate owner to be our partner. We struggled with the real estate committee. That program is alive and well. When i had to go to the ceremony to thank the bishop, he attributed to the pope. He said when the pope speaks, we respond. I think we really need our leadership like that. Obviously. I want to endorse everything peter just said and i want to add Something Else. I think it is really important to keep in mind this sort of macro trends under happening. Brazil is on the cusp of becoming a majority evangelical country. It is a particular kind that is predominant. Evangelical. Christianity. Which does not have the same value associated with the popes emphasis on the Natural World and the relationship between people and nature. In fact, a particular approach that looks at the end times as a good thing. We may want to cultivate arriving at the end times. Understanding these dynamics as a religious space is extremely difficult. Very different directions. This demographic shift and certainly the current government in brazil has that evangelical days as a core part of its political support. We have a complex set of issues and respect to religion. Go ahead. Thank you. I am with the brazil u. S. Business council. Just a piece of information. I have a question. The brazilian government has reached out to us to initiate a dialogue that we kicked off last week on sustainability and resource efficiency. The brazilian government is putting out the table the amazon issue and asking us to help bring with this dialogue a private sector. Its been very positive. It is how you engage with the brazilian government that is extremely important. Sustainable investment as part of this dialogue that we have with the brazilian government. My question is the following. What is the real narrative here . I keep getting confusing information. I see graphs such as this one on the handout such that the four station has been rising for the past 15 years. Why is the real story, the forest i say should really on the decline or is it really rising . My recent paper is very clear about this. For those that are interested, i have a paper published. It has, googling it is fairly easy. I have the data on there from the Brazilian National space institute. If you look at the Historical Data that it collects, it starts off in 1988 and it shows a very clear pattern. And then that trend, in 2004 we reached the critical point. From that point onward, the governments that followed were all looking at the issue of deforestation and putting in place policies to reduce it. Between 2004 and 42014 what you see is a very dramatic reduction in deforestation of over 80 starting from the base point of 2004. What has happened since, when you you look at then, 2014 onward what has happened to deforestation, the rates of deforestation began to rise again in 2015. Two years where deforestation picked up. Especially in brazil. Those two years, brazil was was in recession. A lot of budget cuts to the environmental agencies that were responsible for monitoring and that of course had an effect on deforestation. By 2017, 2018, the situation in brazil specifically was still not solid. You still saw a relative uptick in deforestation. In 2019, it really takes off. As just a matter of looking at the data. It is all there. Time for one more question. Yes, sir. Steve rock. Center for climate security. I would also like to commend norway for the tremendous role that you played in a really creative way with your commitment to the rain forest and amazon in columbia. My question for the panel is, how is the vast tracks of rain forest now open, since the peace process, the first peace treaty that had sustainability at its core, how is that going since the park has laid down their arms and open the area for our culture and other things . Deforestation in columbia. Peter. I dont know the data. The first is, i wanted to just comment on norway real quickly. Norway has done an extraordinary thing and providing the funding for liberia, guyana, brazil, other countries, indonesia to really take on deforestation. That has really been transformative. We are now seeing the real resistance, especially in brazil i would like to encourage norway to think about a different approach. Begin to explore the possibility of relationships with some national actors. Like different states in brazil as opposed to just dealing with the Data National level. Some of the other states that have massive importance for rain forests. They are ready and have governors willing and able to engage. I know there are complications, but there should be a way to do that. I also suggest that one way to increase the Resources Available since this is such a powerful and potent issue today, the health of rain forests is, for the government of norway to make these Funds Available are crowd forcing. Crowd forcing to matt match it so we can double the money. I think we need to think creatively how do we leverage the funds from norway. It has nothing to do with columbia. Columbia has really been intriguing. Although the peace treaty has resulted in laying down of arms, it has also resulted in a lot of people coming back to their territories, their homelands and their home areas in columbia and looking for work. One of the results has been searching for the opportunity and one of those opportunities has been logging deforestation. Columbia is caught in a twist in between. There is been a great impact. A great interest in the creation of larger protected areas by president santos. We are seeing a real increase in the number of protected areas. At the same time, an increase in deforestation. One of the things that is happening in columbia, led by the government of columbia in the military of columbia, trying to provide Employment Opportunities to those people that have weighed down their weapons for reforesting. There is an area in the western side of columbia where there is a major Reforestation Effort that is actually being financed. Cis involved in another organization. A great Employment Opportunity for those people that lay down their weapons and are now looking for good unemployment. We have to bring this live lay conversation to an end. Lots to talk about. Please join me in thanking our panelists. [applause] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] the u. S. Senate traveled back in. Lawmakers on the u. S. Court of appeals judge for the 11th circuit which covers alabama, florida and georgia. Watch live coverage at 3 00 oclock eastern. This week the House Intelligence Committee and chair adam schiff continue public impeachment inquiry hearings. Beginning Tuesday Morning at nine eastern on cspan three. Watch live testimony from Jennifer Williams aid to Vice President mike pence and Lieutenant ColonelAlexander Van min. At 230, ambassador, ambassador kirk bulger. National Security Council white house aide tim morrison. Testimony continues with u. S. Ambassador to the European Union gordon. Deputy assistant secretary of defense for russian, ukrainian affairs. Under secretary of state for political affairs. On thursday at nine am eastern, the committee will hear testimony from fiona hell. Senior Director Director for europe and russia. Watch the first two public hearings in their entirety on our website cspan. Org. You will find transcripts of witness testimonies and procedures procedures for the hearings. Plus a point of interest feature identify key moments during the hearing. This week, watch live coverage of the house impeachment inquiry hearings on cspan three, cspan. Org or listen live wherever you are with the free cspan radio app. Mark randolph is a cofounder of netflix. He is the author of this new book that will never work. Mr. Randolph, where did the idea of netflix come from. Well, ideas come from the strangest places. I talk about this crazy idea that we had and of all places, carpooling. My cofounder cofounder and i were commuting back and forth to work brainstorming ideas. One of these crazy ideas we had was maybe we could do video rent