On Harvey Weinstein alleged sexual abuse of women in his book catch and kill in his book catch and kill. Good evening everybody. Thank you for your patience. I am the coowner of politics and prose on behalf of everybody here we are grateful here at the auditorium thank you for coming. We have been partnering with gw for a number of years now sponsoring the author talks and we are very grateful to have access to such a spacious and convenient facility here in washington we are also grateful for the support for all of you we know you have choices on where to buy books and we like to thank you for choosing to shop with your local independent bookstore. [cheers and applause] especially nice to be hosting ronan farrow this evening talking about his new book catch and kill it has been two years since he was writing in the neww yorker and with his writing in the New York Times since they published the separate Sexual Assault allegations against would be producer Harry Weinstein and that cause many other women to come forward with allegations for those that were privileged to help give rise to the Metoo Movement subsequently a Pulitzer Prize for public service. [applause] the award honored the reporting and in catching kill he talks about the weinstein story the institutional resistance in the intimidation and the threats he faced while doing so. It contains additional revelations not just for Investigative Journalism but it a self a compelling spy story writing only not about those extreme tactics but what he calls full on espionage to stymie the coverage like nbc news where initially he pursued the story to keep it from being broadcast. Im not giving away any spoilers. This is been widely reported that nbcs behavior was motivated by the desire to protect them out on matt lauer who also was accused of Sexual Misconduct and let go strongly nbc strongly denies the plot of the investigation they tried to cover up and lauer maintains his actions were consensual the controversy has certainly helped to have a very revealing and riveting book over the course of public attention leading resistance starting college at age 11 graduating at 15 with a delayed entry into work and after graduating from law school at age 21 he joined the state department rich one working for richardsi holbrook and later became secretary of state special advisor for global issues and then went to oxford as a Rhodes Scholar 2014 nbc signed him to a contract at the age of 26 on the msnbc program it lasted one year and in 2017 after lack of support for the pursuit of weinstein he took the story to the n new yorker and finished it there. Then he came out with a well received book over the decline of jewish diplomacy and then got a phd in Public Relations from oxford. All of that and has yet to turn 32. [applause] he will be in conversation with a former federal prosecutor who now serves as cohost of the view and senior lead correspondent analyst for abc news he also hosted executive produces a show thats about to start on investigation discovery to highlight the stories of their loved ones please join me to welcome our guests. [cheers and applause] thank you for doing this for me. I was thrilled to ask to be here because im a big fan and this book is incredible. Thank you. Lets get right in. And as we launch and was really asking hope you could doca it because to be such a powerful voice i dont know if you see the way she speaks up about issues and how its covered up by powerful people but its important and it really shows your history so i am honored. [applause] thank you lets talk about the allegations about former today show anchor matt lauer. That made a lot of news. He claims he was fired in 2017 for inappropriate sexual behavior in the workplace and a it very out about shortly before he was fired but in the book you write they knew about his behavior for a long time. Its important to know there are very salacious headlines that is not incorrect that they get a lot of attention they are very serious claims. But what is documented its much deeper than any one network star or executive or network by patterns of coverups in Corporate America and the people that get hurt if it is swept under the rug with a payout. We have talked about this several times like the Harvey Weinstein case it was on cbs news and then even nbc news. That there were no Sexual Harassment settlements and as i document in this book a paper trail of seven settlements of those of Sexual Harassment settlements the women complained about matt blauer years before he was fired. Years and i personally spoke to Senior Executives at the leadership level warned of problems and curry has talked about the leadership and that checks out with the reporting and again its about people getting hurt when the problems are not confronted. That they c are called enhanced severance agreements not settlement agreement. Yes enhanced severance. What does that mean these are the euphemisms and contortions that you see when a problem is covered up. Nbc news rebuttal goes into the book you can judge their responses and they continue to claim these were severance packages they just paid this woman seven figures and coincidentally she also had a Sexual Harassment claim inex place what a coincidence. While we all worked on this to see it was very fair to nbc it is worth noting this is what a coverup looks like they are terms that allow you that you know as a former prosecutor and attorney if there is Sexual Harassment or violence it doesnt say in big bold letters this woman was abused by this person on this date is just somebody who tries to talk around. As a substance agreement. When nbc found out about her allegation that was too much that now matt lauer is fired. She says she was raped she told nbc and they fired him but it was not reported to the police. It was not reported to the das office. So what exactly did she tellou yo you . She described unambiguously a rape by every definition of the term her full story is laid out i encourage people to read in context rather than just the headlines. His thinking is reflected in here he writes very fiery letter with a menacing tone that women might come forward with allegations and he meeemphasized the contact. I want to ask about that because he wrote a response letter and said it is categorically falseal the sexual encounter was completely consensual she was a enthusiastic and willing partner and also says that all of these women he has had affairs with has had shared responsibility that continued after the alleged rape to have a physical relationship with him. So if you were really raped then why would you go back and have a sexual relationship . This is a current theme and this is the response of Harvey Weinstein in many cases they went back in various ways. When he says at one point as we were Fact Checking this piece it to comment its not rape if they come back. And that is not consistent with any Legal Definition of rape and indeed you would know better than i it is a very common facet these are crimes committed by pastors and bosses and the Power Dynamics that attract people with professional dynamics that make it difficult to get away from someone. There was a machine that unambiguously described a nonconsensual sex act with potential criminal implications where despite the fact the attorney clearly signaled this is not consensual she was not using the term rate but was describing one. And then to discuss within the News Organization it was and matt lauer says its an affair up to and including weeks in the new cycle. And that they were under scrutiny for not doing enough to stop it that people knew about and talked about the problem but they downplayed it. Because theth fact is that is what she described in the followon contact that she described is not consistent with any definition of an affair that i know. At a junior employee, the most powerful man at that company was inin a dynamic when he said come to my apartment for drinks. Come to my dressing room. And then as she struggled to get away from this she was under orders to go get something for purely professional reasons and he would be demanding sexual favors in his office or his dressing room and that is a complicated dynamic with a mix of sexual and nonconsensual interactions and readily concedes after the alleged assault she tried to put him at ease that sounded maximum all enthusiastic into not anger this incredibly powerful guy. But with all the shades of gray to be laid out they are not germane was the Sexual Assault. And then to conflate it with what happened that night. But she eloquently points out regardless if he thought she was flirting before or how he interpreted the interactions afterward that night she was too drunk to consent and she said no repeatedly to a sex act that he did. He denies that but consistently this is how she has told the story from the beginning. You also describe a culture of misogyny baked into the very fabric of nbc but also just in our culture and describe no one to oppenheimer. You say that like. No i say that neutrally. [laughter] because i was trying to be generous. [laughter] my tone is very measured. Your tone may not be. [laughter] and was the head of nbc news at that time. And you write that you as a writer at the harvard crimson welcomed things that were pretty provocative. He had some headlines talking about transgender and the angry feminists, and then to be threatened but then apparently women enjoyed being confronted and prayed upon they feel desired and not demeanedhi. This is the same person that would have beenn told about brooke. And had the conversations immediately afterward and said she did not describe a nonconsensual interaction. And was part of that machine this was downplayed. The way this was handled after the fact was dramatic. But there is a bigger point about a pattern of corporate behavior. She talked very eloquently about making a painful decision to come forward in this book and the women that came before her had voiced about their concerns about matt lauer but she in turn carried a sense of guilt for anyone who could face violence afterwards. And ultimately that is why she wanted to break the cycle. A sense of guilt because of the silence . If you have legal structures to conceal the alleged crim crime, and to allow the perpetrators to stay in position of power, you expose subsequent people toma victimization. If that is a feature so many of the stories that i reported like weinstein there was nothing in the file technically about Sexual Harassment. And then to conceal the record and at cbs news this is not an mvc problem it is culture and corporate a america. It should not have been on her problems but now it is only because she was brave enough to speak and a variety of sources there is still a wider group of claims about the company and the series of misconduct. People were brave to expose this story. I t asked you how do the people that you outline on page 213 who have a history of praying upon the work forwo him for nbc news. She has read this book. [laughter] page numbers. Multiple women are on the record he slept with underthing underthings. So how do they survive Something Like this with magin kelly and Greta Van Susteren they are called to come in and investigate these claims andg are asking if it is true then they need to be fired. It is striking it is the wonderful and brave journalists. Those that hold their feet to the fire to demand accountability to say over and over again why dont we do an outside investigation . And they have flatly refused. Internal self investigations are not investigations. If you ask me to grade myself i get an a every time. It is a serious problem. And there are a set of p techniques when a company tries to conceal doing their own self investigation and having outside firms to rubberstamp with no access and nbc employed that full set of tools that we will not do an outside investigation and that is pretty telling. There is a dramatic moment as the plot unravels the journalist inside are so angry it is coming out there is a meeting with the general counsel to descend into the Investigative Unit from the general suites to do damage control. Theres all these questions and a woman journalist says what aboutut an outside investigation how do i know are you the parent of a new addition News Organization. And they saved the press would stop talking about this it would go away another reporter says we are the press. [laughter] talk about Harvey Weinstein because you won a Pulitzer Prize for that story. [applause] it was magnificent. Thank god for the sources who spoke. Talk about your prosecutorial record. When you are able to do something to help the conversation and help transparency and accountability you do it on the backs of fan because of the bravery of the victims. But you had that story at nbc and they refused to air it and they killed it. To this day they say you did not have enough. Your sources or your story did not meet journalistic standards. Then a few weeks later you publish the Pulitzer Prizewinning story at the new yorker. Did you have enough . And if you did why did they kill a quick. Of course we had enough. I dont think thats no longer in dispute because the working level producer is a great guy who resigned in protest. [applause] he is a profile encourage. He does what every journalist said this should have been on airro. We have and admission of guilt doing a sting operation admitting not just Sexual Assault but serial Sexual Assaults. We had multiple named women and every version to the body of reporting but thats not even the point it is a distraction tactic and to say with the judgment of that body and within a few weeks it was that story. But it wasnt that it was done or could not have expanded but they ordered us to stop. That is the striking smoking gun that this was not a journalistic decision. We were told to cancel interviewsic. We were told to stand down and not take a single call. I was threatened i would be exposed to be terminated and let go from the company if i ever disclose that nbc ever had anything to do with the story. Over several years of investigative reporting i uncover what was happening at this company and the secrets with the threat of exposure as he was bearing down on them with secret conversations and emails and contacts behind our back. You outline in the story that Harvey Weinstein was blackmailing nbc news over them at lower allegations over them at lower allegations only to go as far as the facts but it is true that nbc news and the National Enquirer and they can deny this to say there was a threat communicated that what you just alluded to but there was a bigger point that is un disputable the secret settlement in the high level conversations of matt lauer created a situation where nbc news was dealing with a lot of secrets ever about to come out at least 15 secret calls about Harvey Weinstein and then they promised to kill the story had of any journalistic decision. It was very clear that these were executives who felt they had secrets to guard and simultaneously brokering and enforcing while telling me the legal judgment is that we cannot report on secret Sexual Harassment of Harvey Weinstein. As it turns out i can now reveal they were parroting a talking point given to them by Harvey Weinstein. So my hope is by exposing a conversation of how to prevent this from happening to other people in a company that might be targeted with individuals cloaked and a conversation of how to prevent this from happening to any other journalist. Thats the thing that you also discuss in the book that Harvey Weinstein went to Great Lengths to keep the story under wraps. He went so far to hire spies to follow you and other o reporters that you felt your life was in danger and people advised you to get a gun. I moved out of my apartmen apartment, i was very stressed out, not getting a lot of yeep, looking over my shoulder. Like you except the Legal Training background im inclined toward skepticism theres many parts i am the last to admit even then you dont expect the answer is an International Espionage plot with russian spies have contractors outside of your apartment and an international femme fatale. But these are things that happened in an actual way. [laughter] people are reading the book. And there is a lot of reviews it reads like a spy thriller which is glamorizing after the fact but it didnt feel that way at the time. It seemed extremely shady. [laughter] i was scared. I had to stop telling my mom what was happening. I would always have my keys out before i moved out of my apartment work im not good at selfdefense despite the target practice. [laughter] and i would just point out that it isnt glamorizing and it is a sign of just how over the line the behavior is. These are tactics that should be reserved for spy thrillers not added journalist in real life in the country with the protections of the first amendment. [applause] unbelievable. And i do try to imbue that plot with a sense of perspective. I am very aware and grateful for the fact i am not a journalist they are killed in the line of work every single day of the work is so important and precious in our democracy also. And all the stories about tactics deployed by powerful people about the way News Organizations have suppression of powerful people. All of that goes to the questions of free and transparent information in our democracy and the stories they tell ourselves as we enter the next election cycle to make leadership decisions. This matters. [applause] and then to transpire here in our country. It is the most important. The only profession that is protected in the constitution. The book is a love letter to journalists. And also to their sources who continue to speak and refuse to stop even while facing opposition. There is one who comes forward in this dramatic turn off events. And slightly bumbling who was outside my apartment chasing me around then they said is that him . And then on the other side of town. So one of the spies on my tail has this evolution that becomes pivotal to the story and uninspected ways and talks about growing up in a police state knowing what its like to have the past on press control by the powerful. And therefore feeling invested. And its very moving to me that you close the back cover. You all have it did you all get your copy . [applause] im honored by anyone who takes the time to read it i hope you will finish it. Absolutely. One thing that struck me as we share friends in common. Is some of the stories you write about lisa bloom who was also an attorney and how you felt almost tricked by her. What do you mean by that quick. She apologized to me and other reporters. She came on our show and alsond apologized. It was an apology tour. [laughter] i would say justifiably. She should consider apologizing to some of the women that she victimized. [applause] and she has said in recent days around this book that she never lied to me. She really believes that then i dont think sheay understands the spirit of conversations among friends or attorneys or common decency. But she is a double agent. She is not disclosing she is representing Harvey Weinstein she is presenting yourself as an ally and for years appeared on my Cable News Program advocating for victims from powerful men who presented themselveser as an activist and wrote offense with the credibility of my sisters claim against woody allen. I respected her and she cashed in on the admiration and respect she had to work for Harvey Weinstein to gaslight and undermine and attack into squash reporting efforts. And she will have to reckon with the consequences of that. But that behavior specifically okth me when i said we are under attorneyclient privilege but as two lawyers working in a profession that is respecting the confidence if i answer your retrospect probing question i need to know that i have your insurance you will not disclose to the person i am reporting on or Anyone Around them. Yes. I swear. When i told her i was working on Harvey Weinstein and immediately i became increasingly suspicious butpi only later i confronted her and said you promised. By this time i had received threatening letters with her signature on them as cocounsel with arguments that my sister was brainwashed as crazy directly contradicting her. And put me out there as a friend. I said you gave me your word as an attorney and a human being that you would not tell these people she said i am his people. Yes. That is my reaction also. [laughter] shocking. It is shocking. And we had excellent reporting on memos and promising to admonish these women and expense reports she was planning opposition and soperations against me. Rosa galan was a target from lisa bloom and she disparage her and conversations with me but also with the whole International Espionage operation. She had an undercover agent pose as a womans rights activist and become her best friend to the point where rose mcgowan finally said theres no one in the world i can trust but you and she was recording rose sending those recordings to her alleged rapist. Most of this is about women who are real examples of bravery and also a lot of men and women on these pages who i hope have aal cautionary tale just how depraved and ethically bankrupt we can become with money and power. You mention your sister. I do think she is very brave as you know. Thank you. I agree. [applause] that has always been significant because in cases slike this when they look at the facts with fresh eyes it is shocking. What was also shocking to me is that weinstein called your estranged father, woody allen, to argue the situation of who accused woody of molesting her, although he maintains his innocence weinstein says you had an agenda and he tells you on the phone you couldnt save someone you love now you thank you can save everyone. There are a lot of instances in this book and beyond where personal and painful things are weapons these are occupational hazards a lot of stuff is thrown at you and one common playbook is how low can you get harvey h weinstein sent legal threat letters that were full of things like extensive discussion of an uncle of pedophilia which i have never met i dont know how this was relevant of how women are accusing Harvey Weinstein as rape but i guess that sense of hypocrisy. True. And just that we have an ax to grind. Reporters who become deeply invested and then to get it over the finish line and then to be kept up at night to use words like of obsessed and fixated. I questioned is there any truth to the ada to be too close to the story if you actually have a conflict of interest of a bad one business deal go bad . If theres no factual links but there is in terms of understanding the issue that is not only a positive but in some ways necessary to bring our investment in the issues i ndwas adversarial i was skeptical at all times wherever the facts may lead and those pieces go to Harvey Weinstein. Of how crucial this issue was. And i get asked this question often had you get witnesses to trust you . I would like to hear about your process. I was one of the prosecutors that was willing to go into peoples homes and knock on the door and say i care. I want to hear your story and do everything ig can to do justice to you i will do everything in my power. At an event have one to tell. The role of prosecutor and journalist is very different. It is about steady trust building and giving Someone Agency and not browbeating them. If people make life altering decision with a serious claim ef a powerful person and with the realization when annabella had an incredibly upsetting allegation of rape about aHarvey Weinstein. Having good days and bad days around trauma even to this day. It was almost impossible on the physical level to get the story out to articulate and almost impossible to listen to. That these are unfathomable horrors. She did brave thing after included picking up the phone to say i dont know anything i dont knowan anything. So now she has volunteered to testify in the case that is upsetting and traumatizing to go up against a dynamic that she knows her public price one profile will never be the same she never was to be known for anything but that and she talked during our conversations in the book about knowing she would be walking into restaurants with her kids are on the street people would notice this invasive horrible demeaning thing about her. And she has come to a feeling that they know about her bravery and she is standing up in ffor something much bigger tn herself and is so important to. But none of that makes it easy. I talk about this almost every day trump is involved in this book. Yes. This wasnt so shocking to me honestly. But you tell the story the National Inquirer filled with secrets with donald trump related documents that were shredded in 2016. But you saw some of it for go you saw it to spirit this is the first time a reporter has seen this master list of all the dirt the inquirer had over the years. Ive seen so many stories anabout the inquirer the story is the process that played out more than the content there were five affairs there was 60 items called donald trump killed in a reference to killing the k stories included references to about five affairs somewhere public some were not and headline descriptions about his misconduct to cares on some level there was one allegation of misconduct that has become public so to be clear and to not over blow its not what wedi discovered was something brandnew and it should also be pointed out it was supposed to be a complete list but it doesnt necessarily represent the full universe of all the knowledge about trump which makes another fact it makes it even more relevant because on that list were those that were not identified at all because it wasye destroyed in the days leading up to the election they had a multiples horse well document accounted a shredding party it has now agreed it may have violated election laws to swing the outcome of the 2016 race to bury the stories. And the trail of clues that lead me from the inquirer from Harvey Weinstein to a series of stories that i break and a brandnew one with trump and epstein is a saga that has a lot of significance not just the media world but the way the future of our country playeded out. The stories are really about a culture of Sexual Harassment. Cvs and weinstein and warner bros. And now nbc. I do think theres more to come. I know there is it was always very clear to v me that it wasnt significant just because of Harvey Weinsteinec but more than any one producer but patterns of power protecting power in every industry and all around the world we are just beginning to see a conversation about that. If you talk about the unique significance of the media and how it shapes the future of our nation it is happening including nbc but its not the only area we t focused on and it would take and to see a march toward accountability. Now we have questions from the audience. This could be contentious. How has the narrative been shaped in the news media and hollywood . What can we do as journalists to be claimed that narrative . I think every journalist speaking out about this is a part of that solution to see a live people step up. We eventually saw a leadership change that refused to shut up about it and less moon fez who was a darling of wall street in under criminal investigation and Stephen Colbert to get on the air to say i demanded accountability from my boss even though he is my boss and multiple nbc reporters maybe you saw the chris hayes program. [applause] wonderful. Thats a hard thing to do to stand up and call out your boss and say god there are journalist to have that. Ackbonege so with the decisions we make where we consume media and demand accountability can influence that decision. The Parent Company is comcast so dont you demand comcast investigate quick. I am a reporter not an activist my job is to very fairly interrogate the t facts. I am so grateful now that the facts are out they prompt things like this letter of apologies and there needs to be an effort from the Parent Company to ensure this doesnt occur. I cant be a part of that push but i can say im inspired to see that translated into change. I was disturbed by nbcs decision on the access hollywood tapes as well in 2016 that have extended beyond weinstein crack. And it is devoted to that and it is a trend with the backdrop of the access hollywood case and the effect had on the culture and is part of the backdrop. The women i was talking to especially it would come up as a theme that people would say enough that they will look the other way. And News Organizations and to ensure the public reacted in a way. Some thank you teresa for your question as a Sexual Assault survivor thank you for shining a light on such a big problem. As aob journalist i would like to ask how do you separate yourself from the work . I imagine it is hard. Thank you teresa and everyone. [applause] who is brave enough to be forthright. It is really hard. There is a struggle that plays out there is a beginning and a middle and an and i didnt do a survey piece or a different pieces of a different set of characters and part of that is for personal and honest to letdown people around me to feel vulnerable and frightened that is hard decision to make and desperately did not want that to be the story. Yes it is scandal and turmoil to have those incredible privileges and opportunities to pay those forward but because of that background i wanted the work to stand on its own to be in the long shadow. So a situation where i was on air every day and good journalists were asking me why are you talking about the way you were targeted or the shutdown of your reporting . Because i want the underlying story to have its moment the focus should be on them and none of us wants to be theou story that your story not being told is significant in itself and in the end i decide. They are right. I did have to spend a couple of years investigating this. And to tell it honestly to tell the full arc of my involvement. So if you have spies chasing you you will become the story a little a bit. And to be transparent in your role and then the understanding that it does both. How do you manage to juggle this book and reporting and your dissertation . [applause] mad props. Thank you. Thank you very much. I am a big nerd. I did finish a phd earlier this year. Congratulations. [applause] i did my doctorate at oxford i had to fly to england in the middle of a book deadline and it took me a full seven years. One of my Fact Checkers sent a gift of pokemon slow keying. But i did get it to the finish line i had to go to england just to tell the professors i was still working on it. Each time we would have conversations they would say so you are on an American Television show every day that thats not my main project. [laughter] that my academic pursuit full time at oxford. [laughter] im going for my final oral exam and then you just won a Pulitzer Prize . This is my main priority. [laughter] and they put up with me and my bullnt shipped and i did have to work very hard. It was more than 50 pages and social science dissertation whether there is a correlation between dysfunction and the cost of those relationships in the united states. It is not as boring as it sounds because very serious because stop laughing. [laughter] this comes from peter how do you prepare for interviews . This varies. I saw you preparing for this and that warms my heart. Its great and that is something to beat prepared on proud of with any positions beaming with broadcast interviews a lot of scripting and preparing thats very different versus taped interview i have done an hour with Angelina Jolie if it is special you have one set of priorities or if you are doing a contentious cable news interview with politicians thats a different arc you are constructing but thinking ahead to plot a series of satisfying reveals and there is a little more showmanship to the live tv cable news type of interviews cable especially because i really enjoyed your one interview but people dont talk about the seriousness of this version. Some people dont enjoy. That is a badge of honor. And rightly so you raise serious issues and this is important its important to get out to the audience that you have. Goes over a slightly longer format even twominute or threeminute and very often you are doing a lot of ramp up on the camera and then you try to get to the soundbite. But you have it all in a sequence to you not really listening to the answer. Absolutely. A lot of planning and a blueprint of where you could go and then to be in the moment and in a familiarity that you cannot focus on it and use it as a jumping off point you might go in a new direction. That maybe it. Are you feeling satisfied with a number of questions . Are you good . [applause] were only human. Like a true prosecutor. But i had several more questions. What is next for you . I get asked that a lot i dont know g a how to answer tht i feel that i stall for time. I have been so immersed in getting this book done i have so much respect for anybody who writes a book book writing is very hard how many here have written a book . We have a couple of book writers . I am there with you. I was a nightmare to put up with these events in the book and god bless my partner who put up with me. [applause] it is really hard. And this particular book youre doing several Different Things d at once to do multiple year very contentious investigations a high wire act in people with very difficult revelations very precise legalistic work and then you do a difficult thing to create a dramatic work where the plot with the nuance in the character and everyone has no coherent arc that there are threadss that hopefully are satisfied in onions unexpected ways and in pieces of this intricate machinery. It is critically acclaimed. I am sorafu grateful and whee people reallyro rally around and with the legal threats and then it was banned in australia for a few days. Banned the book. [laughter] and then trump did not want people reading this book you can imagine everybody from every region of the world and australia. [laughter] and a couple of others a couple of big retailers were not selling it but now talking about the importance of free speech then other booksellers imported it and now amazon is selling it in australia so free speech wins. But it has meant a lot people rallied aroundt it and to understood and more than the sum of its parts and im excited you took the time to talk about it. Mister ronan farrow. [cheers and applause]