Host senator rand paul with the most interesting people in american politics and the Republican Party i was a fan of yours long before i got the chance to meet with you and work with you here in the congress im eager to chat with you about your book but first reflect the role that you have within congress and our party is independent voice of someone willing to strike out that some are not willing to strike out. Sometimes i feel i am a lonely voice we believe in balance budgets and we should spend less or have a limited Constitutional Government controversial things like that. Unfortunately we lose a lot on our side bad is one of the frustrations that i try very hard whether republican or democratic president to spend power was hours we should keep our hands on the power to declare war and we too easily give that up what i have found giving up that republicans are better when its a democratic president or vice versa but when they are the same day acquiesce a little on separation of power powers. Host the case against socialism it operates as a debate guy against those who will try to grow the left with those socialist ideas to embrace socialist dictators so talk about the need of the book through the lens which is expanding or contracting. Most hear the title of they say thats great but we wish it wasnt necessary think it would be necessary and it is true i was born in the sixties and khrushchev was just admitting that stalin was a terror for many of those who died in about that time the great famine in china had just happened so many of these were just becoming known throughout my lifetime people were horrified about what they learned with socialism so now we turn the page with poll showing young people almost half of them hate capitalism and that it is perplexing to some of us if we read the history of socialism. It is necessary. We have a couple of socialist on your side or on the senate side. When i was a kid they were embarrassed of the label. They didnt want to be called socialist so then they call liberals but then they knew it would not be popular. Now they are in your faced to say im a socialist the democratic and socialist people of america it is alarming that they say what does that really mean for our country . And in a short period of time we have seen democrats socialist really embrace that brand now you said something earlier which i have never forgot about our prospects for growth and you said specifically once our party needs more people that have tattoos and dont so we have to find people with tattoos or tattoo more people . Thats a good question. With and without ponytails or earrings or without her tattoos we need to be a hipper and cooler party young people want to join and that is part of the problem now socialism is cool they dont know exactly what it is those that say they will are for it those that actually say that government owes the means of production they just think it is fairness but the government schools frankly teach everybody can have selfesteem. They need to feel good about themselves and pass out fairness and selfesteem but somehow the government will make things fai fair. We need to point out there is the difference under our system it is mostly based on merit if i am sam walton and sell something who sells and distributes that i can become a billionaire but nobody forced you to buy my stuff but he became a millionaire because people voluntarily bought his stuff. But when you look at socialism, maduro doesnt have a top 1 percent. As we pointed out the leader of venezuela that the average person is lost 20 pounds he makes ten kennedy look slim he wears a size 74 just jacket because it keeps getting fatter. And never read a book that better fat shames. [laughter] you went down this project as an interesting endeavor with marriage you wrote the book with your wife i not married by heard wallpapering could be difficult so talk about the process and you write a beautiful poem in the beginning of the book that i think speaks to a lot of people who have endured sacrifice and the notion it is linked to another human being that you love. Kelly and i work went pretty well together with like they give advice in marriage ultimately let her make the final decision. Thats not entirely true but i wrote a lot of stuff then she read it and said would be interesting to add this. Give us a sweetener. What really got her going to watch this what the media did to this and that link to socialism we have gotten to a point with propaganda filling the airways so this is coming from private entities but our kids went to Catholic School standing there waiting for the bus never says a word be at all these adults on cnn said he has a punishable face one week later when the truth had come out they said do you not understand what you are saying . Just everything about that story was wrong i hope in the end the courts will say you cannot lie about somebody because it really is a court case kids are not getting into harvard because they have inappropriate things on social media. He didnt do that but lumped in with those that are racist he could be excluded from schools or careers because people think he is a terrible person. He never said a word or did anything and on the other side were all these terrible adults getting in his face yelling at him and then the media got everything wrong because they had the agenda so she has a great job to pull the into the whole idea of what happens under propaganda. Those that we serve within Congress Tell us socialism is the path to fairness. Who are the Fairness Police . In the abstract to have fairness but we each have a conception of fairness. But for her to invoke hers on us if we disagree, she will not sell as her ideas she has to send the police so this is where it breaks down because this is why it has become popular with the idea of fairness they conflate that with charity and being your brothers keeper i think we should be our brothers keeper. I believe in the christian idea to take care of people but they believe that and conflate it to say if i come to your house and take your money but no its if you give up your money but also its not very charitable the way the government does it because this is the point that we make the balance from government could be tolerable if you want more you have state violence but then truly there is a point the only way you can get it is through violence you have to kill the people thats what happened under stalin. And from that we develop the question, teaching a course on George Washingtons violent an action or inevitable and i think yes absolutely it is inherent the closer you get to taking peoples property, they will resist you cant just find them but put them in jail and shoot them. I interact with a lot of folks who say how can i motivate my child or grandchild to embrace the principles that made the country great and i do say it does detail out the arguments a socialist make into good Historical Context but when we move past that Tipping Point citing a harvard study half the people under the age of 29 is a favorable to socialism have we crossed the rubicon for do we have to win back the argument . We are in danger jefferson said every generation has the tree of liberty that is true with socialism every generation has to realize the problems of socialism and what comes from it but what is out there right now the superficial platitude is intellectuals in america thats not the socialism that we want bernie was a big fan of castro but then he learned thats not so great. But we really like sweden we love scandinavian socialism so a big point of the book that sweden and scandinavia is socialist and the Freedom Index for trade in one of the main policy things is to raise the Corporate Income taxes we lowered down a 21 percent interestingly scandinavia has been 30 or 40 years as part of the success to have a low business tax. But he doesnt want the low Corporate Income tax but he wants to raise them also scandinavia doesnt have a minimum wage and this is the biggest run of the biggest lie of all socialist that you can have all the free stuff something for nothing, free College Everything you want we just give you free money and only tax the rich. The lie is thats not what they do. They do have a big welfare state they do give a lot of free stuff but they tax the heck out of everybody. So Bernie Sanders will not tell you that but in scandinavia everybody pays 25 percent sales tax poorest to the richest they also pay a significant income tax it is 60 percent starting at 60000 and that is middle class that is not the rich that is how they get so much money they tax the heck out of the middle class you dont see aoc to say 10 trillion for Climate Change a medicare for all but the middle class has to have 60 percent and contacts they say they dont have any tax increase just the rich people and that is a ally. Host is capitalism who one capitalism zero some . But you use a variety of examples to show it is capitalism the rising tide to lift all votes on boats. That has been bandied about in it is a terrible thing but we look at it and interestingly one points out pakistan and ethiopia you think it will be great is not how close you are to each other but your level but income inequality says it is a jealousy trope about how much money that you make but in reality that is coveting somebodys property. But another of the big lies comes from the socialist to say it is a pile of sticks if i get some you get less but the truth is the statistics are overwhelming the economic ties get bigger and bigger with less poverty human progress. Org associated with cato the statistics are amazing. Poverty and 90 percent of people live on less than two dollars a day when i was born it went from 90 percent in 1822 about one third of the world living in poverty in the sixties today is less than 10 percent that is incontrovertible those that escape extreme poverty every day the last 25 years so the facts are wrong the world is so much better than it used to be. You take that global lens i expect those policy reforms you have championed with government in our lives but i think readers can expect a global view of how qualityoflife has been impacted as those move toward Big Government. Right. The facts are there the World Economy is growing. Poverty is less, everybody is richer but starting off speeches to say there is never ever ever a better time to be alive i want that to sink in. This is not venezuela you take that on very directly in the book and you make people eat their words you take some joy to point out not only bernie but cnn champion venezuela as a great utopia with. Venezuela is such a disaster people are literally eating their pets we tell the story of a young lady, a teenage girl she has a gang to defend the turf of trash from certain garbage receptacles those are hers to look for food. How sad people kill the rats any the pigeons. It is sad but with the World Economy we have to understand why it is deteriorating into chaos that is what the book is doing what we dont seem to have in Congress Talking about which Economic System is better and nobody seems to care what aoc is supporting is stalin and mao and pol pot and these terrible ideas and a get away with it because they are not challenged. You trace the roots back to the arab world that would be a lightning to many who look at these monarchies and endeavors but you cite socialism as a brand it is particularly violent and harmful spirit as part of the problem since the 1930s. Hayek and others say if they come on board with the right wing dictator these were political scientist who had a spectrum when in reality there is different variants people were proud of socialism but said like most inventors they want to make sure it is distinct and international and his was racist and genocidal that he was proud he came up with a new unique form of socialism looking from the communist manifesto but they did it because after the war people became so horrified with the holocaust they said lets call him a capitalist or right wing authoritarian. But the commonality going back to the top 1 percent mubarak and nasser and dictators in africa have a socialist event but that was combined with cap talk or see that happens under socialism also. Then everybody gets a check and in every pot on a chicken in every parts the families enrich themselves. Host see you attack the notion that socialism is attainable by saying that every economy in the world will distribute resources unequally there is no opportunity for equal distribution. So in a world with unequal distribution you prefer merit over cronyism. So do we fall at some risk to lead into those elements does that take us on a slow march . I think so the whole idea of how things are distributed and the equality is that if things were equally distributed, then you would black incentive because you want to increase your share of the pie so that was always a problem do we fall into the trap . Sometimes. To get the things we take those off at the lowlands and of you have a tax system that is a lot different than scandinavia. Instead of everybody paying toward are very progressive tax code but the vast majority the top 20 percent of earners pay 90 percent of the taxes. We are very critical the way the socialist system can be viewed on the black market to look at the purchasing power to live within a normalized Economic System what are the most striking examples to directly fuel the black market economy . There is a price point that when people start selling things if you set the price too low all the goods will be gone if you price them too high then even conservative screwup sometimes what is the moral price of bread its when supply and demand across and then the invisible hand of the marketplace also has more efficiency so once the government sets those prices been is the correct price of anything its never too low or too high but it leads to horrific problems in the black market but also talk about how under socialism it cant be tolerated because it undermines all systems so you have to have informants and families in forming on families and neighbors forming on neighbors and after a while jury trials are too slow so our community by spread on the black market we put them on the jury the government will not get a conviction so things become more authoritarian because the policies are very unpopular but one of the examples in venezuela somebody selling stuff on the street so he apologized and said we actually have stuff in getting it to people we are sorry we are charging more than the price but theres no food or medicine in the store. Thats what happens it just doesnt work we want the price to be 50 cents so everybody can have it but then wellintentioned to keep it cheap then there is no bread and it happens everywhere. Bernie tells us the bread lines and you cited in the book when they wait in long lines for bread that is the sign of healthy socialism. Go see the lines of venezuela i think people are too excited about the lines and it still ignores the great wealth of our country. We are so wealthy right now we do not have a food problem we have access of food one of the biggest problem we have in health one of the biggest is too much food. The poorest people in our society is not great to be poor but they are better off than the middle class of most societies around the world we have to figure out to get people excited to be a part of that even though unemployment is 3 Percent People dont participate in the workforce in some communities its 50 percent so there still needs to be a thing that is coupled with a drug problem they are divorced from the whole process but we still have that problem but its problem of plenty and every day businesses say i cannot find enough workers but we still have a bunch of them who are not participating. You clearly draw from the vast Economic Resources from the Libertarian Movement but i sense you are frustrated by the willful ignorance how their own policies impact the communities and you tell a great story of aoc and the coffee shop and just the willful ignorance how that affects quality of life. She goes back to blame it on capitalism and the coffee shop goes out of business in the interview the owner and he says im out of business because minimum wage was too high in the rent was too high. There is rent control and minimumwage control. So this is the biggest problem with the left. Even grant them a big heart and want to do things to help people, many of them do, but they dont think through the second or third order through the unintended consequences. You can say bread is 50 cents is so good for the poor people but then in six months there is no bread then there is a black market and people sell it at different prices and there is no bread at 50 cents anymore. Now some are simply demagogues because we pay the top 1 percent it has been pointed out repeatedly to aoc that 1 percent tax on those making over 10 million i think it was 50 billion but the project is like 60 or 70 or 80 trillion. So you would think they have to know that but they just think selling santa claus is easier. And frankly it is so why always say they have an easier sell but you just cant give people that money doesnt grow on trees. The math does become challenging but one thing obama gets credit for is the message throughout the campaign repeatedly talking about the middle class as enduring to the benefit that you walk through a number of circumstances where socialism fights that middle class and talk specifically those trying to follow the rules and get by how these socialist policies a row that opportunity to get ahead. Went to get more socialism you get less Economic Growth and then the contraction. Probably the best example is venezuela with more oil reserves than anyone but they dont have food. How does that happen . The marketplace never allows that to happen it is growing with more Economic Growth but its not just one time it is time after time and going back to the question whether or not violence is inherent to socialism hayek said if the ultimate desire of socialism is to own the property to take it and people resist the more you take it maybe socialism is for the most ruthless because it takes ruthlessness because when they come to your house i will not resist i will not cheat but if they come to my house there will be violence you cannot have someone that has to be stall and the more socialism that you want the more ruthless thats why you end up with ruthless leaders to take peoples property you have to be ruthless to get it. That shows the lifecycle so why are all these socialist dictators dressed up as liberators initially . You go through the mud movement and the strong authoritarian violence how do you break that cycle . Thats why when they talk about the birth of our country and how extraordinary it was that so many revolutions didnt and the way ours did. Hours was amazing we kept much of our religious faith and traditions and virtues but also codified a written government document that government cant get bigger within the chains of the constitution and sometimes we dont realize how much of that is the lineage of the english tradition i think it is a continuous of the revolution in england and the magna carta theyve done a great deal but along this lineage we are incredibly lucky we have this constitution from her Founding Fathers and George Washington not becoming a king or serving again were lucky who we got but also they believed in a written document to restrain the size and scope of government. Morality is what the left says and they say the moral thing to do is to embrace the philosophy for your answer to that is interesting talking about house selfish socialism is because if you look inward it requires you to be morally in tune with the needs of others. To be a successful capitalist and i sell something i dont care about my desires but what you want so everything is focused to try to get you to buy my services or product but if im a socialist i dont care about popular opinion in fact when we socialize things like healthcare nobody will be bankrupt but you have to have rationing it doesnt matter if you wait in line for six months or one year it is directed toward the ideological concerns. For a country that is more socialist becomes more selfish. That is true. It is an irony because they would profess and then it is driven by selfishness in the end and how they consume all based on the cronyism of their system. Taking apart the scandinavia argument is also part of the debate of the kinder and gentler form of socialism that you point out those trendlines moving away from the overreliance on taxes where will we see scandinavia from 25 years from now . The private peak since the seventies moving to the right four out of five are led by governments the trendline also big trading nations and with worldwide trade in these economic indexes heritage has one and they all rank pretty high so its important you have to know if they are socialist or not because we have to know they are socialist or not but frankly they are not private property and ownership of people own their own houses with the massive welfare state. So walk us through the steps where we fall. It is a continuous him we are in the middle more towards a capital aside we have a great deal of governmental controls and involvement. Writing a plan to reform Social Security right in the book. In the spectrum thats where we are the scandinavia socialist there is a quote from von basis that said and talking to one of his students if you want a quick definition what it requires to be a capitalist nation is a private stock market so they really are capitalism with a big dose of welfare that basically is paid for with high taxes was still private ownership. Thats not something im advocating to buy a car in scandinavia is 100 percent tax of 30000dollar car is 30000 taxes. You dont think Bernie Sanders could get elected . The Prime Minister responded no we are not socialist mainly because they want to do business with the world and who was to do business in a socialist country . Denmark says no we are open for business and bernie says i love the socialism of denmark so it is funny the left all wants to be scandinavia and scandinavia says wait we are not socialist. As they awaken to this impact on the middle class as they try to have a more capitalist system as america shifts the other way will they cross . I hope not but was interesting about scandinavia they have a lot of success with health and among jevity there are several authors we look at to look at the statistics to understand why so they say scandinavians live longer and have higher incomes but if you look at scandinavian americans, once you live here their average income is still higher than ours and the argument is it is something about culture and the work ethic that makes a difference and i truly think it is. Its harder to teach people it comes from Family Structure and community and church but this is where we have to get away from the craziness of the government schools that johnny deserves to have a trophy even though he cannot spell. We dont teach of the work ethic the hearty work the more success you get that we have a whole segment of population, 38 percent dont work who have never felt the esteem that you get from work. Absolutely believe that work is not a punishment but it is a reward. Nobody gives you selfesteem but you get it through work. You can be a janitor or nurse or doctor or lawyer or a physicist you get it from trying to do something with your mind and hands and body and if you dont its a big problem for all of u us. You have a vision for the Republican Party far more appealing to a racially diverse electorate laws that disproportionately affect minority so would be shut subject to repeal but yet the same that advocate for socialism are the self aggrandized Racial Justice lawyers in the congress and you write about the ability for racism to animate those elements that may create a susceptibility that you would not see in capitalism whats the basis of that viewpoint . Under socialism and people collectively group viewed them as groups and under capitalism everybody is an individual regardless of skin color and religion is all based on merit but to see things as a collective black and white rights and gay rights this is still going on but there really are only individual rights i dont care who you are what you do for your personal beliefs the law should be the same for everybody but the problem is when you recognize group rights the law is not the same for everybody they have to have a special elevation above the individual and then that is what happens that under socialism everything is to be distributed equally the government has to be an equal because Society Works hard so to make it equal the law will not treat people the same. It is the iron he doesnt have equal protection and in order to make a sequel the law has to have not equal protection but unequal treatment based on their groupings poor or rich as they are redistributed with a lack of justice. Host you are very critical of china and the erosion of Property Rights changing society, what do the lessons from china tell us and also the Us China Relationship as they embrace these values . That is another book people talk about hope in the seventies opening a marketplace and people were very hopeful and many people predicted with economic liberty it hasnt worked that way but in recent years is gone the opposite way i tend to think the long run is what more than what we are seeing economic liberty makes people more interested in political liberty in Tiananmen Square there were hundreds of not thousands of people interested and in hong kong people are very interested not to be extradited to china by the hundreds of thousands. We can be disappointed we still have Chinese Government that is authoritarian but we can be encouraged there is resistance. How we get there i dont know it separates the more livery one liberated minded people i see the problem in venezuela and china but they thinks and the military we will give a new government and everything is great unfortunately that doesnt seem to work out that way. You talk about the purges that flow from socialism i know there are a lot of conservatives concerned about losing fair debate the dont want to debate the economic principles instead one day deep platform so why does socialism accelerate that viewpoint . Because once you monopolize the economy then you have to monopolize criticism and it is a consistent theme secret place under hitler, stalin , pol pot, mel one mao and then it gets back is that an accident . Or is that inherent they cant handle the debate because ultimately that leads to dissen dissent . The final issue it would not be a rand paul book if not a critique of forever wars as a member of congress who represents more troops than anybody else, thank you on behalf of those military families for what you do. You are criticizing a particular journalist when you say i respected eisenhowers warning small worsley to big course i never understood how one could be caught lying this fact checker have the deluded belief that somehow i belong to the war crowd and then go on to quote eisenhower i hate war is only a soldier who lived it can only one who is seen the brutality and stupidity so as we try to guide foreignpolicy and our government away from forever wars the word of advice for those who have a realistic view. Talk to the veterans you see a lot of veterans in your district we have two big bases some of the most thoughtful people are those who have served in particular and combat those that were involved in combat they are not kneejerk that war should go on and on we were okay after 9 11 but when you told us to plant a flag just mentioned the word nationbuilding and most soldiers will recoil they dont see themselves as policeman and ultimately i make the analogy like welfare to give People Welfare forever they will never take the world into their hands to become selfsufficient like afghanistan 50 billion per year they will never step up will they ever step up to defeat the taliban and . I think there is a chance the military and those retired 60 percent say we should and the afghan war over 60 percent say the iraq war maybe not in our best interest we should listen to them and also the constitution that wanted to make war are difficult some say it is so antiquated but my response is the times weve been attack the last 70 years was unanimous attacked and world war ii with pearl harbor the next day we were at attacked on decembe december 7th and then people voted 9 11 but it was virtually unanimous. I think congress can come together and people look at it to say we do better with Better Outcomes when we declare war and are all in together and not so well with wars that drag on without a Clear Mission my fatherinlaw was career military my dad was air force we see this from a personal point of view and i just cannot stand a Family Member or anyone else down there without being very thoughtful to decide what is in our National Interest we just cant have one vote 19 years ago this binds a generation after generation that is the definition of a perpetual war. Thank you for being a unique and inspiring voice for our party and for listing your brilliant wife and also anyone that reads this book will never lose an argument to a socialist ever again. Thank you. I appreciate it. Of course people say i dont like his tweets i will address this one time and one time only this is the best way i can address it. America is drowning in the middle of the ocean owned or the manage decline over the last 20 years both parties contributed to Big Government management and adventurism abroad while the country is crumbling and finally in the middle of the night while we are gasping for air a rescue helicopter brings us up and we can breathe again and the first thing you say is i dont like your tweets history. We are breathing again. It is completely irrelevant like the heart surgeon thank you for the triple bypass surgery by the way i hate your tweets but im glad we are breathing again i can make an argument that the twitter feed sets the cadence the public northstar for every Single Person to understand what the president is trying to accomplish and keep people accountable traditionally up to hold a press conference and the media doesnt cover it but now there is a real time standard and accountability measure for everyone to see what the president is thinking. I think he is hilarious i like a politician outside of the Cocktail Party say one thing to another consensus from washington dc i dont care if you offense a couple people i like the fact he punches back twice is hard. And then they have been perfectly okay with this manage to client so hearing this time and time again i say thats a thesis of the trump presidency. First and foremost when you go to the doctor tell me everything thats going on so basically it was pretty brutal he said we are losing, borders are wide open, trade deals are stupid, chinas laughing. And this was in the first 30 seconds the first honest assessment the country had received in a long time and thats the first part of the doctrine in philosophy i will tell you straight to the american people. I will not sugarcoat it or tell you one thing but what ideas are rooted in the renewal of a nation. The United States and other free and open societies will do everything we can to protect ourselves against the efforts of the Chinese Communist party for the free market Economic Systems and the democratic form of governance. The fact that most people leave prison with that analysis to see that we could be closing prisons already and jails already was cut by two weeks in three weeks and four weeks, much less than years with the types of sentences they are serving. Will come from everybody joining us today from scotland, australia, italy, scotland, australia, italy, souh africa and all over the world the author of the first civil rights and i am moderating todays conversation before i introduce our guest thank you to haymarket books with the abolitionist papers and the proud of the inaugural publication of the book change everything