Transcripts For CSPAN2 Abram Van Engen City On A Hill 20240713

Im the designer of Community Partnerships for the massachusetts Historical Society, gavin kleespies. I would like to welcome anyone attending a virtual nhs program for the first time. Considering the 5 virtual crowded geographic spread i am sure some are interacting with us for the first time. We are the oldest Historical Society in america founded in 1791 is an independent Nonprofit Institution dedicated to collecting and preserving, publishing and sharing our state and nations history for the past 329 years. These days of social distancing we have taken to hosting Virtual Events and we have Online Events planned every week through june. Our Program Next Week is in the afternoon it is a virtual tour of massachusetts, this is the 4 hundredth anniversary, hope you can join us for that program as well. We have Additional Details on our website. Today we have a great program, we are joined by abram van engen, associate professor of english, his ma and phd and be a from calvin college, is published widely on religion and literature, focusing especially on 17thcentury puritans. This afternoon he will be speaking about his new book city on a hill, new history of american exceptions. We are hosting virtual programs and i encourage everyone to buy a copy of the book and we had an agreement with local bookstores. If you enjoy the talk please consider buying in the bookstore. Before we welcome abram van engen, i would like to talk about how we view this. So if youre interested in contacting us, the Public Program coordinators at our website to contact us. If you enjoy our work or supporting the organization with the donation. We are collecting stories about peoples covid19 experiences. If you would like to share your time, visit our website on our covid19 experiences page. There will be two ways for people to ask questions, the first to use the q and a function at the bottom of the screen, you can click on that and type in a question, we will sift through them. We have 200 people signed on already so i am not sure we will get to every question. We will answer as many as we can. If you would like to ask the question in person, we will be alerted you raised your hand and try time permitting to allow a few people to ask questions in person as well. Once we click on that you will have to unmute yourself just so you know. Without further a do, join me in welcoming our speaker this afternoon. Thank you for being here. Its good to give a talk, thank you. I appreciate you joining me today. I want to say a couple quick things. We are living in a world of an shorthair, appreciate your understanding with that. We are living in a world of faulty internet connections. That has inflicted us from time today. Of that happens i appreciate your patience and please note that i will be back. What we are going to do today just to begin is talk a little bit about what i mean by american exceptionalism, what is the history of american exceptionalism but im telling. I wanted to ask a question at the beginning and you can type answers into the q and a function or think of an answer yourself and i will circle back to this question in a little bit. What is the origin of america . What do you think of where america bins or with whom it begins . How do you start your story of america . I will circle back to that question in a bit and think about why that question matters. Let me ask claim what we are going to do today. We have a broad audience with us today. There are scholars of history and literature and some are interested in the topic. Got my mom out there. It is a broad audience. We will talk through what we mean by american exceptionalism. What is entailed in that concept, what the general history looks like and why that matters and what it has to do with a puritan from 1630 in which governor John Winthrop says we will be at the city upon a hill. Let me share my screen and lets get started. All right. What is american exceptionalism . The general idea is we are identifying the United States he referred to as america as a nation that is different from or distinct from her unique from, and the role in relation, as relation to these other nations. And and following the American Revolution. And there was a strong feeling along a lot of prominent people that the United States. They would be seeking to achieve. They would be the model for other nations that they would want to emulate what we had done. This is the concept of the United States as a model nation. The concept is passive, demonstrating something the rest of the nation can in the late. There is a sense of american exceptionalism that comes to the 4 after world war ii, wealth and prosperity and prominence after world war ii and you get a more active sense of american exceptionalism. Whatever blessings or prosperity, whatever we have got is great. It is our duty and responsibility, the concept of the United States as a redeemer nation. And in both of these concepts of american exceptionalism, there is not a religious sense entailed. Got in providence set apart for this nation for these kind of roles for these distinctive features, this is the concept of the United States as a chosen nation. When talking about american exceptionalism, one of these concept is at play but also two other elements behind american exceptionalism that are always at play even if they dont become explicit. First and foremost it is a comparative assessment. What you are basically saying when you set apart the United States as distinct, you have looked at all the other nations of the world, you know something about all the other nations of the world and claim the United States is distinct. It is in a certain basic way youre making a claim that you have knowledge about what all other nations of the world are like in order to claim american exceptionalism. The second element at stake, historical, this is the part that interested me most when i was writing the book. When we make claims american exceptionalism almost always what happens as we write a story of america that explains the exceptionalism. We claim the United States is distinct and because of x, y, and z history. And that depends on historical story of america. They define as the conviction that our country hold a unique place and role in human history. We can see if history is always at stake in the concept of american exceptionalism. What really interested me when i was writing this book, the book is largely about is the writing of National History. We do that . Why do we do that . Whats at stake . Wise that such a fraud concept and what are the ways it has been done over time . I was particularly interested since im a scholar, a puritan and pilgrim of 17 sintra, what role the pilgrims and puritans have been given in the National Stories that have been written. Thats what drew me to this project to begin with. That brings us back to the question with which we began, where and when does america begin . You can think of your own answers to this question, answers that are coming in, but if youre going to be telling the history of america have to start the story somewhere at some point in time. Youve got to begin the story. The story has to have a beginning. I open my class on american exceptionalism with this question. Ive done that multiple times but we set up a survey of 2000 people where we could track the answers with Demographic Data and Political Data and see how it all shakes out. A whole bunch of amateurs come in of course to this question of where and when america began. Some of the standard answers you might expect, the answers tend to concrete congregate about cn edges of native americans, the first people in the americas, thats what america began. Or you didnt add to like columbus. The first europeans in the americas, the story of america begins with europeans discovery of america. Or sometimes you get an answer not as frequently jamestown virginia the First Permanent English Settlement is the really beginning of the story of america. The mayflower compact and Plymouth Rock which a return to in a moment and then an answer like like a declaration, American Revolution, constitution. One of the things to see about this question, the question really doesnt make sense. What the question does is it tells us what you mean by america. Sort of like a rorschach test if your answer gets your sense of the definition of america itself. A lot is at stake in that sense of definition. A lot of my book is about origin stories and how we begin National History and why we begin in certain places and not others. One does the things at stake is the question of identity. For example, if you start the story of america with columbus, with european discovery, what happens to native americans . How do they fit the story . How are they not part of the story before and suddenly become part of the story only when europeans arrived . How do they get woven into the narrative you are telling . Just as importantly, and this is the part that drew me to this question, purpose. Over and over again we see that what we will see is a certain origin story is given and the motive that started the people there is understood to be the motive that still drives and defines the nation now. So what purpose inspired america to come into being, and the question becomes how do ive much later relate to the original purpose which is been defined what america stands for. Whatever people came for is what we now stand for. This is a claim thats frequently made especially in the histories that first get written in the 1800s. This returns to the question of the pilgrims, why are they such a prominent role in these origin stories . If you think about it, it doesnt really make sense. Native americans make sense. They are the first people in the americas. Columbus makes sense, the first european in america if you want to start there. Or you can start with the first english for the First Permanent English Settlement for the first this or that. The pilgrims and puritans are not the first of anything. Not the first europeans, that the first english, not the First Permanent settlement here. They are just not the first. How come they get woven into origin stories about what america is and what it stands for . And hear the primary answer turns on a sense of purpose. We will see this again and again a special beginning in the early 1800s that by turning the origin of america to the puritans you could isolate a pure purpose, you could claim that america was founded on a higher purpose and then use that to define what america now stands for. You could make the claim, and claim is often made, that the pilgrims came for freedom so they were fleeing religious persecution. I came here for religious liberty and so on. They came for god, not gold. These are all stories they get written about the pilgrims and these are all of course good things. We like freedom, we like religious liberty and toleration. Would like selfgovernment. It are good things and so by making an argument the pilgrims begin these things we could say thats really the true story of america. What then happens though is that get set in such wit with everyg else that happens in America First of all you have to rewrite the pilgrims so it sticks. The puritans and pilgrims had their own slaves at that part did not get mentioned or the fact the puritans were often made a lot of money off of shipping the slaves to the south. These parts of the story did not get mentioned in order to make this pure purpose stick. The other thing that happens is it allows us to not start with these questions. The spanish we can claim, gets claimed in the stores, they came for gold. They came for all the wrong reasons and they are not really the true story of america. What also happens is the south then gets dismissed. Theres not the true spirit of america. One person i study in this book a lot as guy named perry miller. He plays an Important Role in making this famous and ali says about james tent is that likes the careers with which i could coherently begin. Hes just not going to start there. What happens then is you can claim slavery is not part of the true story of america. It is the true story starts with the pilgrims and starts with search for freedom, then there is a slavery but is not part of the true story of america and it will disappear over time. In other words, whats at stake in these origin stories is that National History the leads us one way instead of another, isolates one purposes instead of another deck and elevate one history and template another. Thats part of what im tracking in this book. When does this is begin to hap . Im surprised it begins to happen once you got a nation that needs a National History. Following the American Revolution you have this unique sort of interesting problem, so just think about this for a moment. The 13 colonies are primarily related to england. They dont and message of have agreed to do with one another. The culture of virginia, the people of virginia doesnt assert have a lot to do with the culture and people of massachusetts. Suddenly there are bound together as one nation. How do you elevate a sense of belonging together thats going to be greater than your sense of belonging to your state . Its one thing to claim your virginian. Its another thing to claim you are an american that has anything to do with massachusetts. That the widespread recognition of this problem and a lot of cultural work goes into creating a National Identity that can be salient for people now that youve got the nation. Theres a lot of big ways to approach this or understand this. This. Im going to isolate three. Three things that begin to happen. First, people start making a ton of masks. If your picture of your homeland or your country or your most sort of salient political identity is supported of virginia, then what does it mean when they start unfurling maps come hanging maps in taverns, painting maps on teacups that show you in a country with a political boundaries that includes massachusetts and george and Everything Else . They put maps over the place so people can picture themselves as one people. The other thing that happens is they start to emphasize civic rights and rituals. So the fourth of july becomes a really important holiday because its the one holiday everybody in every colony can celebrate. They might celebrate it in their own ways but its a way of saying we belong together, we are one National Identity. We can practice and rehearsed this National Identity together. The other thing that happens and the part im most interested in is to start right a National History. Whats interesting about that is they dont have much National History it. 17 90s, early 1800s you will have nation for about ten or 20 years. How are you going to write a National History of the . What happens in the first National History is the writers begin reaching back to the colonial era and beginning to pick and choose what is the origin of this thing that we now call the United States of america . Where does it will begin . How do we go back to that time into the people who never thought of starting and independent nation and explain they were the roots and the origins of this thing that we now have, this new nation . That begin to explore come this writing of history and National History begins to explode especially in the 1820s. This gives you a sense of that. You need to take it from 17901830, historical works including historical fiction account for order for a quartef americas best sellers. Climbing to a peak of more than 85 in the 1820s. People were reading history like mad. The other thing is you have new state laws to teach history in Public Schools. Your new Public Schools and send everybody to school happen and second of all when they go to school the state start requiring the teaching of history and of American History. Whats interesting about this is they of course to have private schools. The folks who go to private schools are told to read and study the classics because the point is they are supposed to become gentlemen in that way is by reading and studying the classics. The folks who go to Public Schools are supposed to become good citizens and the way to become a good citizen is to read and study history. This is the way these get sorted out in the early 1800s. You also have been just new schools, new students, new state laws requiring the teaching of history and for all these reasons you have a booming textbook market. That begins to dominate and the thing about these textbooks is there often go the way people get education. The teachers come and go, students, go. They have to get to the fields. This a lot going on but it textbook is forever. They take these textbooks home, pass them around to the family. You can see on the cover pages of these textbooks or notches written for students, the written as a reference work for the entire family. These history textbooks become hugely important, ways of embedding the cultural and national narrative. As as a picture i love to talk about in teach. Theres a woman in 1800 was hugely important and really famous. She is a major proponent of womens education. She starts, says we have to educate women the same standard we educate men. We have to take education seriously for everyone. She starts doing that herself. She starts a a really important school. Today its called the emma willard school. Its in troy, new york, better students stand out from the school and begin modeling the School Elsewhere to basically she startled movement of womens schools all across the country and it even gets picked up beyond the country in places like colombia, scotland, other places, they begin to build the school for women on the basis of the model of emma willard. Shes a very famous women in ia day. The other reason she becomes a household name is because she start writing textbooks. They sell immensely so she sold over a million textbooks during her lifetime, which aint bad. The thing that made her textbooks so important, so different is that she thought of history as the thing that could best be learned if it were pictured. She starts the practice of drawing historical maps in order for people to learn the history of the United States. She also thought that all history could be pictured at once, it could be kept in mind and remember. So this tree is her history of the entire United States. Her history of america all in one picture. Each branch in the tree is meant to be a key turning point in American History. You can see as you go along what turning point of matter to her and which ones do not. She starts the story of america with columbus. She next turns to Gilbert Patton which nobody talks about her nose about today but she uses that to explain the beginning of explorations in north america and what is now the United States. Notice the first really basic settlement that becomes a turning point for his pilgrims landing 1620. Shes quite explicit about that in the book. What does not get mentioned, what gets skipped entirely of courses jamestown virginia, the south. There is a turning point for them here. There is no Branch Prediction is not a key turning point. The beginning of slavery is not a key turning point in American History. Its just left out of the tree. So the pilgrims, for her undercounting its a mayflower compact that then paste the way for the constitution of the United States much later. This is the way which she begins to unfold the history of the United States. Theres another guy at the time George Bancroft who writes a ken buck history of the United States and he becomes a sort of the most famous historian of the United States at the time. Today if you win the big prize in American History you when the bancroft prize name for the sky. This is his account of the pilgrims picky says the pilgrims show the way to an asylum for those who would go to the wilderness for the purity of religion or the liberty of conscience. Therefore the citizens of the United States should cherish the memory of those who found the state on the basis of democratic liberty, gives the pilgrims who scattered the seminal principles of Republican Freedom and national independence. Basically the moment the pilgrims step foot on Plymouth Rock, freedom donned in america. We had at that very moment Democratic Institutions that would carry us forward ever since. You can see again the way accounting purpose is tied to a present day because the pilgrims came to this, thats what we stand for, and the rest of American History can be set aside in order to elevate this particular kind of story. Its not hard to see then how with all this writing going on in the 1800s how we can move forward and continue that kind of story to get to the point where, for example, Ronald Reagan in his last address to the public in 1989, this is his farewell address, the very last thing he said to the public as president , and he says, hes made his career on the basis of america being a shining city on a hill. In making that claim he kept turning back to John Winthrop and his 1630 sermon that we shall be a city upon a hill. Why does it matter . John winthrop was an early program, an early friedman. Here he is purposely combining pilgrims and puritans into one origin story. And again what we came for is what we stand for. The question is do we still stand for it . He says how stands the city on this winter night . And concludes she still a beacon, still inactive for all who must have freedom for all the pilgrims from all the lost places or hurtling through the darkest towards him. The pilgrims established us. They are the origin that defines us and our basic goal is just to stay true to the purpose. Thats the trajectory that reagan spells out in this sermon. What interested me about this and, of course, the history of that sermon is pretty mysterious and odd. By unfolding the particular dynamics of that history, of that one particular sermon that become so important to reagan, i could get at this larger way in which american exceptionalism creates the foundations that it needs to tell a tell a particuy of america. Here is the cover page of John Winthrops 1637, a model of christian charity. This is at the new york Historical Society. They have this and this is the cover page. First and foremost its not in winthrops handwriting. The second thing to note about it is its also not in handwriting of the sermon itself which is also not in winthrops handwriting. Theres one copy of the sermon that remains. Its written in a hand that isnt winthrops and discusses additional cover page in a different hand. We have no idea when this cover page was added to the sermon itself. The other thing you can see about this cover page is kind of a mess. Youve got people fighting over it and adding between the lines more details. Its clear it wasnt added in 1630 because it just wouldnt give a sermon and some have cover page on it that describes John Winthrop, here it says in the passage with a Great Company of religious people which christian tribes, he was a brave leader in famous governor. Its not a title page you would use in 1630 right after he gave the sermon, so we dont know when this cover page was added to the sermon. We dont have the sermon in winthrops own handwriting. This is the only thing that places the sermon on the Atlantic Ocean at the moment when winthrop was coming over. Were not sure thats true. A few other things about this sermon we should note. First of all, it was never printed, published, quoted or noted in its own day. Basically nobody paid any attention at all. The manuscript was completely unknown to everyone for over 200 years. It was first found and First Published in 1838. And even then after the found this sermon and after they published the sermon nobody paid any attention to. Nobody said we have key text American Literature. They ignored it for another 100 years and said thats kind of a long sermon by an early puritan. They said inside. Finally it started to gain National Prominence in the 1940s. Thats when when it begins to take off. You can attract its been a number of ways. Here is the contents pages of American Literature. On the left is 1961 are basically the Norton Anthology is one of the most prominent such anthologies we have got. In 1961 the sermon had become decently well known, perry miller was a harvard scholar. He spent the last years of his life claiming that the sermon was, in fact, the foundation of American Culture and perry miller has a very intriguing story that i i tell more of ine book. Im not going to get into that here. Perry miller dies in 1963. The sermon is known, its just its just not considered important. In 1961 its not include in the Norton Anthology. Its not considered a great text of American Literature. By 1979 its the first text in American Literature. It is chronologically out of place. William bradford came before winthrop but they put with the first and expect why to do that. They say this is the key text of American Literature. Its the text that explains the development of American Literature. 1961, hardly known. Ignored, neglected. 1979, the key text of American Literature. You can track this and other ways as well. Over the course of five or six years i worked with a team of students to track every citation of city on hill or city upon a hill in google books from 1800 to the present day. You can tell what this phrase is being used for, what is referring to and you can see here from this chart that the phrase basically is not referring to winthrop or his sermon and tell about the 1940s and 50s increasingly it becomes the phrase of winthrop, the foundational sermon of america. Theres another way to track this as well. So city on a hill is a phrase that jesus used. Its in the sermon on the mount. He explains it it should be a city upon a hill. Through the 1800s the primary reference for city on hill is the church. The church is understood to be the city on hill. Not necessarily a political entity, not a the city, not a country, et cetera. The main way is phrase gets used is to describe a a church or christians or followers of jesus or apostles, disciples and so forth. Its a religious phrase. Following world war ii we can begin to see more and more frequently this phrase begins to describe america or the United States. Should make up charge elsewhere but they can show the way in which a phrase that refers to the church was quite come you can charge when it was taken over the nation submission defined itself in the very phrase in the very term that used to define the church. So this leads to the second part of my talk. Let me sow im doing. Why we have winthrops sermon at all. The simplest answer is because of historical societies that saved it, reserved it, printed it and somewhat promoted it. But then of course that just raise the question why do we have historical societies at all works every as i get i just ask another question i guess. Heres the table of contents for my book and the part of what to focus on just a little bit at the end is this part, this idea of how we have the materials of which would begin to write American History or National History. And what goes into the collection of Raw Materials and records and papers and manuscripts that then provides a basis point is tales of American History that we tell. As gavin mentioned at the beginning, mhs was sent in 1791. Its a first of its kind in america and it begins to spread after that. The problem that jeremy had come he was a founder of the mhs, is as he looked around in notice papers a meniscus were constantly being lost. They were either burned or plundered or whatever. These are all mentions of losses that he makes when he found the mhs, all these events have happened recently and everyone knew about them. The other thing that is guiding belknap at this time is basically a powerful sense of american exceptionalism. He is one of these figures who believes america has achieved what do with the nation in the world had just achieved, and as result all of the nations would be looking to america to want to know its history sweats to emulate it for themselves. Hes driven by the sense in which we need to collect the papers and preserve the records of American History so that at the nations can see it and track it and follow it themselves. Thats guiding the process of the creation of Historical Society. Theres are meant on the left, Jeremy Belknap. You can see he is a bit portly. There are some stories about him hiking that are funny, but anyway, his basic idea was that we needed a safe depository, a place told all these records. Like i know right is Ebenezer Hazard which is just a fabulous name to begin with. But his basic role in this whole scheme was he said look, you cant no matter how may times would put things together in a safe house, no matter how safe that house it will burn down or be plundered or something. His idea was we got to copy everything. If we copy everything and we distribute everything, and once we lose one copy well have another copy somewhere else. Basically these to join forces, become very good friends. Divide whole streets of letters together, and what happens is whole series. Belknap start the collection of the massachusetts Historical Society. Basically they start printing a selection of what they have got in order to basically to reserve it but also to bring out to the public so the public can read its own history. Its in this series of collections that winthrop sermon first appears. So the first printing of the first appearance really of that servant in 1838 is in this collection of the massachusetts Historical Society. Thats where its printed but thats not where it is hell. Its held at the new york Historical Society and thats where the only copy was found. Whats interesting but that of course is the new yorkers did not really care about the sermon. How to come look at it and said i thought the mhs would be interested in this. Its not our history. The new york Historical Society when they went back to origin stories and founding notes, they celebrated the dutch in 1609 and had to do so forth when i came across this 1630, 20 years later, this sermon, they thought its kind of boring. But the road to mhs and said you want this sermon . We will make a copy of it for you. Thats how mhs ended up getting hold of it but the new yorkers did not think of it as important. What is important is the new york Historical Society which offended by john, i describe a bit of his rather colorful story in the book, they built themselves on the model of the mhs. Pretty quickly after this, the historical societies began to increase rapidly, so 1812 he get the american antiquarian society. Thats the third and then in 1820 they just start to proliferate. They must show out. Now to do if you live in new england and walk around to various small towns, almost all of them have some form of a Historical Society, a collection papers, preservation of the past. Its a Huge Movement that has, in fact, saved a great many papers from the past. Whats important to understand about this project is as you go about preserving the past youve got to make choices. Its not as though everything that ever comes and gets saved. In particular when the thing that gets saved is what you go out looking to find, which is hell belknap operator, which going to cut looking to find is the kinds of papers and records you think of as important. Those are the papers and records that are going to support the story you have of america and this is basically no maps story of america. Our virtuous ancestors fled from impositions and persecutions to which they are subjected in england, and found in this wilderness and asylum from tyranny. Their example was followed by others, and in north america, the oppressed of europe have always some safety and relief. Basically he was a minister. He preached and spoke this kind of story again and again and again. Its the story of being founded in liberty, the story of American History as as a progrs of history and the records he wanted to reserve when you explain how progress of Liberty Works here the problem with that story is it doesnt work very well with native americans, and belknap increasingly recognized this problem. The more he celebrated american as a progress of liberty, basically the less tolerance yet for native americans at all. By the end of his life he basically thought they just need to disappear. They need to go away, received into the wilderness and get out of the way so the story of america could continue. What you see happening, and sort of the big point of this story, is theres a reciprocal relationship between the National Archive which is what belknap intends for the mhs, and a national story. The story guides the collection that makes the archives and then when people go to the archives to see about the pascoe what they come out with is often a replicate of the story guided the archive to begin with. Theres more going on but to get back to in a moment but there is this intense reciprocal relationship going on. What to do with native americans who were clearly here . Basically a talk in the book about how the ongoing presence of native americans both then and now has represented for american exceptionalism and especially difficult problem because american exceptionalism often does not begin with native american. It begins with the arrival of europeans. Thats with the story begins and the story is meant to tell a certain kind of, come to enhane certain values which ditch dont work you begin with a history of native americans. Heres a various people solve this problem. Belknap and women and others. Basically make native americans a part of the wilderness setting against which the story of america unfolds. They are like the trees, just kind of here, theyre part of the blank slate for when the story begins when europeans arrived. We can see that happening here especially so mica said emma willard was partly famous for her historical maps, this is the first met in her book. Its called an introductory map. Its an account of where the native american nations were and her account of having moved around and with actually were located. Whats particularly interesting about this is she calls it an introductory map. The next map is called the first map and its an account of the arrival of europeans. Even her map of native americans is not even considered the first met in the story. Its basically a setting of the scene. Belknap does the same thing. His most famous book was called the foresters and its an account of American History told through that you anyway, its an account American History. In which he basically makes native americans part of come he compares them to the bears and the walls in the wilderness and they are just there, the landscape against which the story unfolds. The bears and the wolves turkey would take much later come different sorts of archives to recover the papers of native americans to claim the are part of the true american story, part of the same National History. This is a fellow, sampson, who traveled to england. He was a voice for native americans and basically wildly into this life spent time mocking this guy and dismissing this guy a basically never wouldve thought to collect the papers of this guy. It took a later archive in the work of others to basically, rent and say this guys papers have to be preserved. They are part of the story. One way to think about Historical Society is they are fast institutions of loss. Theyre like this one of the voices in the midst of a sea of silence. What gets selected is guided by certain choices. Preservation requires selection. On the other hand, and i was hoping the internet would not give up right there, he goes on the other hand, the visitation are fast institutions. Because of the work of belknap and hazard and other come because of the proliferation of these archives and a stroke decide all across america we have tons and tons and tons of papers and records which do not necessarily read themselves so well into the store that belknap not to click. To give an illustration come when i was working at the mhs and i was reading through belknap papers and letters between him and hazard, theres all these books on the shelves around that were written without of the resources that mhs and three books in particular were more prominently displayed. All three of his book were new accounts of native American Culture in history in early new england at all of them use resources that the mhs to be able to tell that history. You can see, Jeremy Belknap would never have imagined writing such books or imagine he was collecting material that would help write such books. And yet our ability to help write those books is because of the materials collected by him and by the society that he started. These things work in dynamic and in complex ways. With each of the characters that i talked with him about, perry miller, emma willard, jerry belknap and others theres a lot of theres a lot of complex dynamics going on. These folks of notches heroes and not just villains in the work they do of lots of consequences in multiple directions. Let me conclude and we can turn to some q a and i wrote this bit conclusion out just to get it right. Heres what i just want in with them. Among while we talked with the sister societies . Obama papers preserved by all his effort was one manuscript that would eventually change the shape of american political rhetoric. John winthrop Sophia Nelson with model of christian charity. Stroke societies which within cells formed a a powerful belif in american exceptionalism discovered preserved and promoted a lost and forgotten text which then later enable others to make that text very definition and and origin of american identity and purpose my book explains what the discernment in its own context and 17th 17th century, however sloss, why was that and how it rose to prominence after world war ii. The story of this one sermon allows you to tell much broader story about how and what americans have gone a variety the National History and how and why they so often begin that history with the pilgrims. This year marks the 400th anniversary since the pilgrims landed in plymouth and it seems like an appropriate time to think through what generations and generations and generations of americans have said about the pilgrims and about the puritans and how we understood them and what role you played and the stories we tell of our nation. Thats it. Thank you very much. Thank you very much for very interesting talk. This is a point where if we were at mhs egeland was start clapping but a fortune we cant get rich with or instead will just to some questions. So stephen submit a question the said recently some have a dichotomy of america between idea and nationalism are the other older cologne antecedents to this alternative . I think that they become increasingly a dichotomy. I dont think they were thought of as a dichotomy as much in the early period is what a basically say. When belknap was thinking of america was founded on a certain principle or purpose or idea, he was also thinking of it as certain lot and silken white version of American History. There were not as dichotomous. He didnt struggle to dismiss the self turkey just did it, or to dismiss native americans picky. He just sort of did it. He didnt see the dichotomy there is much as we might now. I would like to point out to people who are online watching this you can raise your hand if youd like to or you can type a question. We have a question, was winthrop channeling that the american in this some of the begin conceptual idea . I mean, so the whole first section a book is what was winthrops actual message, always he tried to get at in that sermon . For a long time that it was this sermon was establishing new england at the forefront of history, a model for all others to follow, singular exceptional model for all others to follow. Then there was a revisionist moment in history where they basically said no, winthrop basically did want to be known by anyone. He was seeking anonymity. This is not about modeling anything, not about exceptionalism. Basically thesis im in the middle. I do think he thought of the society was sounding as a kind of model. He never thought of as a singular exception model and effect what hes doing is looking at of the models and six we should be like those models. We should be a model among all the other models of communities in the world and the key to his sermon is to think of it as a community of love. Theres a Reason Charity is in the title. Its a very humanitarian sermon and he basically says we love each other well, of course we will be a model just like any other community that does each other well. Thats sort of the just of the sermon. Question, what was the reaction to the speech when he tried to pull native americans back into the story . I was left hanging at the end of the chapter. That was a very fun theres a a whole piece is abot william is also very important native american activist and was an intellectual in the early 1800 and how he relates the story of American Title viii and the pilgrims become no different from the spanish. They become the folks are after gold and willing to slaughter native americans to get rich and so on. Its very hard to know what the reaction to that particular story was and i think the reaction, i dont know, but the long and the store entries i dont know what reaction to the speech was when he gave that speech in boston in 1836. What i do know is the views in new england were quite mixed at the time. Its not like to thank everybody was in favor of indian removal. There were a lot of whites as well in new england, for example, the thought of indian removal as atrocious, and atrocious policy. They were not necessarily antiracist, but it was a complex view of things. I can imagine there being quite a bit of applause as well as disgruntled folks in the audience. We are adding lots of text questions are not many racing hands but thats fine. Can we dismiss the ideas in the sermon as it is a oneman who my have held these ideas alone . Cushy event expressing views shared by those random . Thats a great question. I think the longer we look at this sermon, one of the reasons given for why made basically no splash at the time is because it just echoed of the ills of what else was saying at the time. One explanation for why it never came to fame in his own date is because basically winthrop was not that original. When he gave this sermon. Theres some great work by Francis Brimmer and the new england quarterly a while ago about the way the sermon echoed, the kind of sermons they wouldve heard growing up. I dont think its right to say a singular person we can dismiss. I think he is echoing about a lf people and its a commonplace sermon at the time. The nationalistic history generated at the beginning of the 19th century impact the rest [inaudible] say that question again. I missed that. How did the nationalistic history june or if the beginning of the 19 said it back the Progressive Reform Movement they came to power towards the close of the 19th century . That is a great question. I do not know the specific answer to that but so let me put on that by explaining what sort of happens in my book as i talk about how these National Histories take shape in the late 19th century. One thing that emerges is, first of all you do have reformers, a lot of reforms in the mid19th century are reaching back to the puritans for inspiration and claiming, a a book just cannot like last week, a great book on the role of reimagining the puritans and abolitionist movement, and well worth another talk at the mhs. At the end of the 19th century you begin to splinter into different traditions. One of them is to have a celebration pilgrims and puritans but you also get at that same moment this radically oppositional tradition which basically says the puritans came here for principal freedom but then just a press to everybody basically the history of america is the history of escaping from the grass. Whats interesting about both of those traditions is both of them basically say america is what it is because a puritans and neither one of those traditions of america is what is because of virginia. But they are still in many ways opposite traditions. We have a couple people who praise the hands. Paul lambert, i will allow him to speak. Paul, can you hear us. Yes, i can. Can you hear me . Yes. Excellent. This is maybe a technical question, but John Winthrop wasnt a clergyman. John winthrop was a politician, a lawyer, and the city on a hill addresses is always referred to as a sermon. First of all, since he wasnt a minister, was it really a sermon . And number two, if it wasnt a sermon, does that mean it may be carried less weight with the people were listening to it in 1630, and maybe thats why it was given less weight if youre looking back at it now . Thats a great question. So he was a government and a lawyer and not a minister. But puritans did have this thing called basically thats a name for it but basically what it means is sermons from people who are not ministers. There was a long practice of that, and thats what it basically is to be is a sermon by someone who is not a minister. The reason i argued it is a sermon of a get into this in the book, this is where i get into my literature side of things. I love to think about the genre of this sermon in the way that john needs to other genres. It follows all the parts of a normal puritans from. Its it struck the sack is like a puritan sermon but in the book what to talk about is how though it goes stepbystep the almost part actually the first two parts, the part where you begin with scripture like every puritan sermon begins with scripture because you cant make up doctrines, is missing. It seems to me what weve got is a corrupt text, and theres a lot of ways in which we know it is corrupt but this is before the way which i think it is crap. Follows all the genre expectation of the puritan sermon and it doesnt start with scripture and what probably happened is we lost say the first page of this which is not unusual in manuscript transmission. I get into all of that in the book. Jenni has her hand raised. We will allow her to speak. Ginny, did you have a question . Yes. Thanks for this great presentation. Thank you. And maybe think about other things im reading right now. First, since i just finished the trials of thomas morton, so weve got a real antagonist of the puritans here, and he points out that people like Nathaniel Hawthorne in the early 19th century start to create narratives with the puritans are not the good guys. I i was wondering if you could talk about how these narratives, these littering narratives that are coming up that are championing an alternative view of American History and the narrative by people like emma willard, are they existing in separate strings that just are talking to each other or are they ripping on each other a little . So i get into that in my book because what you begin to see happening is if this happens among literary writers like Nathaniel Hawthorne which contrasts with the emphasis that happens among textbook works like emma willard. History begins to write the puritans and pilgrims one way of folks like hawthorne begin direct the pilgrims and puritans another way. The other thing to begin saban is you begin to see this split so you can have it both ways, s split between the pilgrims to become heroes and the puritans become phyllis. In the 1800s the pilgrims can be celebrated and youll see this happening some folks will say the pilgrims never had an ordained minister which was saved them for me so awful. The puritans were powerhungry and filled with these clergyman who made a terrible. You begin to see this split between the pilgrims as the good guys and puritans as a bad guys. Reagan is articulate about this recently calls John Winthrop a pilgrim, not appear to even the he was a puritan. Reagan doesnt want to associate his good guy, his foundation of america with the puritan peak e puritans have all these negative associations by that time. Hes quite conscious about saying winthrop was a pilgrim like all people who travel are articles i will call in a pilgrim because it sounds a little better. Theres a way which these stories get mixed and messed around with in order to make the point people want to make. Serotypes come in your research did you happen to come across references to america as the city on hill in popular media like films given the rise and in use of the phrase in the making \80{l1}s{l0}\80{l1}s{l} it would be interesting to see if their connection between the phrase and popular films of the air . That would be great to see and encourage you to go see. We study the google books database and that had so many citations that was all we could do to basically track and grab the data. That data did not happen lets was a printed account of the film, it didnt tend to have the film references in them. Ever since i had kids i stopped watching movies and so my own knowledge of movies is rather limited at this point but anyway, that would be interesting to see how it shows up in these areas films in the 1980s and 90s. I think we can take one more question and michael has raised his hand so we can allow him to speak. Can you hear me . Yes. Great talk. Thank you so much. Thank you. My sense of that sermon has always been, and i type this up but i realized i didnt phrase it as a question, when winthrop refers, its very selfaware on his part, in other words, you can extract portions of that sermon where he says we are a company professing our country dot dot dot. I wonder to what extent selfawareness, or section selfawareness is a factor and why that sermon as you point out rose to the top of the heap over the last two years . Whats interesting about his selfawareness is how to where he is now everything can go wrong. That doesnt necessarily filter into the ways in which it gets used. One of the things hes very aware of is how every other company has failed in some miserable sort of way. One of the the point of the sen is lets level on each other and not die. Thats the baseline message he is giving. He says if we start going after a selfish pursuit of profit at other peoples expense this thing is not going to last. He is very aware of the company they keep. He is in a certain sense, the way i write about is hes trying to great the community he envisions. So by saying that we profess ourselves fellow christians and we say we love one another and so one can what is trying to do is create a community of fellow christians who love one another. The sermon is in a certain sense trying to initiate what he is describing and i think thats part of the way in which then it makes itself accessible to be reused by others later as the foundational moment of American Literature in history. Want to be conscious of peoples time. I thank you very much for this presentation. It was great and has quite a see your back at this picture mhs. Absolutely. Its sunnier in your picture than it is here. Im sorry we werent able to get everyones question, but i would encourage people to buy a copy of the book. Here is a slide site with some information about a local bookstore where we are encouraging people to purchase from which is called trident booksellers and is a few blocks from where abram is currently standing. Supposedly. I would also point the massachusetts Historical Society is an independent nonprofit were group were able to bring programs like this to people thanks to the sport of our members and donors. We are aware of the fact during the current covid19 crisis many people dont have the ability to support nonprofits can what if you do happen to have the ability to do so we would appreciate a show of support by either joining mhs or by making a donation. I hope everyone will buy this book and consider supporting mhs and i hope everyone has a great rest of their friday afternoon. Having lived to a loss of confidence in our institutions come away the sins of that is left us trust what were told by anyone who calls himself an expert, it becomes very difficult for us to rise to challenge like this. Our first reaction is to say no, theyre like to us, theyre only in for themselves and a lot of our National Institutions got to take on the challenge of persuading people again that they exist for us come to hear for the country. Sunday june 7 on in depth a live conversation with you golovin. Yuval levin. Join the conversation. Watch in depth with yuval levin on booktv on cspa