Transcripts For CSPAN2 Robert Scoop Jackson The Game Is Not A Game 20240712

A number of fight up books by radical thinkers such as jackson, angela davis, naomi klein and so many others. Need bold radical ideas right now and its critical to support independent publishers and bookstores and you can do this in three ways. One, by books in the market. During that Haymarket Club and three, if youre in a position to make a donation no matter how small there will be a card on screen about how to do this. Folks posting the information in the youtube chat as well. This video will be recorded and shared afterwards on the Youtube Channel, described to this channel like this video and share it with as many people as possible and consider following haymarket on the social media channel and signing up for the newsletter. More important events lined up but i hope you can join us. Abolish ice, not just a slogan justice in the age of coronavirus. You can find these and other events haymarket Youtube Channel. With so many joining us if your screen gets choppy, reduce your image quality. Folks were given instructions on how to do so in the chat. If we are interrupted, you may navigate back to the haymarket books page. This will be recorded and shared afterwards on the Youtube Channel as well. We will have time for q a. Post your questions on the video feed wherever you are watching. Comment on the extreme. On twitter, post a reaction directly on the video at the haymarket books, who got up live on twitter. Im retreating right now so people can. Its my pleasure to bring in, i call him the full train of the sports page. I tried to make it catch on as a think because when i used to read scoop on the subway meeting magazine, i always thought his writing was like jazz. Not just the figure behind these terrific articles. Hes a National Writer for espn, is covered issues of race, culture and sports for various publications or 25 euros. Executive editor at the magazine publisher of the agenda and author of this, which i absolutely love and its called the game is knocking, the power of protest and politics of American Sports cant recommend highly enough. His name is scoop. Jackson scoop. I appreciate it. How much love for one another but we are brothers from different mothers. This is big. Appreciate it. Practitioner everybody my h hop. This habit of mine, ive got to show people. This was from another haymarket author, john carlos, 1968 olympics. He gave me this hot, olympic colors and then theres a shadow in there. Artwork of john carlos in the australian peter. Just showing off my hat for everybody. Behind me is ali. Its supposed to be a white backdrop on a white wall but surprised me when it send to me. Him and his legacy and he took the script from that piece and put it in the backdrop of the painting. It is one that im very, it means a lot to be. I want to ask you about mohamed ali and his i can pop first, i want to introduce you to a lot of the people tuning in from around the country in the world who may not necessarily know about you and your background. I find it fascinating. Can you tell folks about how you came up, your parents, there politics and commitment and how that translated into your life . My mother and father were both members of the black panther party. My father more than my mother because he was a newspaper journalist. His the first black newspaper reporter in chicago, one of the first in the country. My mother was a social worker. She was also a public activist. Back in the day, the 60s when i was born and 63, they will both contribute members. I was raised under that mentality and that kind of came with it from everything ive done. Thats kind of been my foundation. The thinking not only that, adding a live in chicago and ive always lived in south shore. My wife and i we both were raised in south shore. Weve been together 26 years, married longer than that together. Weve never left this area. Its worth mohamed was his laments. So i came up, i walked away from that. My mother and father necessarily amy any sort of religion, gnomic growing up was rooted in the ideology, we grew up following the word and was going on not necessarily religiously but also culturally. There roots of black empowerment inflect entrepreneurship and do for yourself or die a slave mentality that exists throughout my career tried to find a way to navigate using that as not necessarily a lead but a balan balance. If that makes any sense at all. It does. The party who reads this book will see it. Its run through with the idea of not just black pride with this idea of black empowerment infusing sports as a platform, antiracist platform. As it should be given the fact that without black labor black bodies, you dont have this multibilliondollar athletic industrial complex. We need to be reminded of that more than we are. My think is a broader, look at it through that. Sometimes we get shifted away because the power of black in america has risen to a level where we are almost forgetting that it powerful. They subtly hold the power. With me looking at the cultural and business side, not just performance side but the business side, always understanding the role race plays in that. I tried to consolidate that into 13 chapters. And you do it which is whats impressive. You say that about appearance of power without actuality of power, it does make me think about some of the National Football league, they are going to have a big three hour special on espn where they will unveil the schedule. Coronavirus and its just a distraction or just on the shoulder and this is going full steam ahead with this Going Forward with games this fall. It makes me think about lack of power of the black athlete in this particular scenario because typical career only lasted a year, contracts are guaranteed and nfl ownership, they need these games played to get billions of dollars in broadcast funds. The athletes themselves are in a position where its like where a lot of American Workers are in a position where its like play or go home, work or go home. No black owners in the nfl. Michael bennet said to me, he and his brother once, to very conscious former nfl players from an word for lease. So i see that in the importance to what you bring to the table to be part of our sports dialogue. The way you view that means you look at that dynamic as far as players, i thought about lack of lack executives. But the players inside. Theres nobody in the nfl to say lets not do this because of this. I wasnt even thinking about the ownership because just from the executive standpoints, somebody using provocative terms, sit down as a equal or partner or a voice or voices to say the commissioner and all the other executives in the Business Model that we call the nfl, we need to at least think about this because this is how it will affect this. Rethink this. Lets not treat this violence as an aside because maybe youve got somebody looking for the side effects. The role we are playing, others making decisions, not just the nfl. The impact nfl has and how people and what they nfl does. Without having executives or anybody of power, to within the nfl think tank to further doesnt discretion up with the agenda on the table so there may be hesitancy moving forward but my mind went straight it didnt go to the athletes. And went straight to the fact that we dont have black executives or executives of color. We all connected to the situation we are in. Wightman to at least make them think about the different. What trusting strikes to the heart of when and how sports are going to reopen because this president put together reopen Sports Committee and his committee, it would be shocking if we havent been living through this for four years but all male sports commissioners for the mens sports and its a group of owners. His buddies, jerry jones, robert, owner of the patriots. It is unbelievable, reopening sports and theres no Health Experts on it. No black people on it, theres no women on it. Given how diverse the field of play is, you have to go consciously make the effort to create something that looks like a country club. Talking about how sports are going to reopen. This is not just specifically executive sports. Looking at the people making decisions of what we do as a nation, as a black person other, this is a bad time. If you look at the governors, the people in the white house, the scientists, if you are a black conspiracy theorist minority who doesnt trust white males, this is a bad time. I this country is in the place that it is in. Before we go on that tangent i got off topic, very specifically we call this from ali to lebron, the road to freedom and wanted to know, and what his influence made to you. I came appear and an affiliation with the black social movement in operation push, to Jesse Jackson back in the day and Martin Luther king, john and tom and all the movement in our society. Ali, cant remember a time ever not having the mans name, his presence and practice being a part of my life at the forefront of our lives, an example of what black pride exemplified and more importantly the way you should feel about yourself, i put in something i always believed in. Mohammed ali is more important than Jackie Robinson and a lot of people couldnt get that but Jackie Robinson did open the door to black individuals to become part of different facets of society, not just sports and all other walks of life but Something Different about someone who makes an entire race feel about themselves. It goes much further than being able to be accepted by someone else. You dont need someones approval to feel a certain way, but ali made us feel a way about ourselves that no other athlete, nobody on that global stage had ever done before. Blocks away from the mob my parents being who they were, black society being what it was, ali had there is no a couple go without it. 64, 63. I dont remember cassius clay a year after i was born. And a small, quote, church down the street became the sensor of a global religion. To answer the question theres never a time in my life, he didnt play a role. You have to be something more than sports and if you have a platform you have to use it for something bigger than sports. Do you see someone like lebron james, do you see lebron being part of that tradition or do you think lebron is part of Something Else, did he build his own thing, where do you see lebron in that continuum . I think lebron knew the context of the culture we are in to reach audiences and to make moves and send messages that wouldnt have worked 50 years ago because of the reason, very strategic about the movement. He does his own thing but also theres a spirit there that had ali not existed, he may have made the move differently. Lebron is very grounded in what ali stood for and without saying a word, he carries it with him but carries it very smartly but at the same time im one of those individuals that listened to lebron and expects him to be the next ali. I didnt look at Michael Jordan expect him to be the next ali. I did look to Serena Williams and say you need to be the next ali. I understand this man is unique in a way we may never see him again. The same way malcolm x was unique in a way we may never see again. Nelson mandela in a way we may never see him again. We could go down the line of individuals and mohammed ali is in the realm of a conversation where we can include him in that and other athletes, they need to be at his level. In order to have a social, political, racial, economic impact. That is not healthy thinking. It is us being minorities. We talked about this the other day. We as black people especially when it comes to sports and moving forward, looking and searching for absolute blackness, almost becomes hardcore. We want all our black heroes, they cant have flaws, they have to do everything. Human beings dont do it that way. Not that ali is false, not like lebron, like stefan curry, serena, Michael Jordan, tiger woods. We could pass laws in black politicians, we could pass laws in black activists, we could pass laws down the line. Our problem is lebron doing everything, why does lebron have to do everything the why does he have to be perfect in order to be important . Let him do anything, as long as hes not doing any harm we cant expect him to do everything. We get caught up in a lot of that, not to be a part of that. Ali did things on such a level, almost think he was flawless and never made any mistakes and was the epitome of absolute blackness and held everybody else to what he did and there may not be another one and it is a problem. Host there is a quote by ken burns, the documentary filmmaker, he said the greeks understood heroes had flaws, a very specific part of our modern culture. And and it recognizing figures part of what makes somebody hero, negotiating a positive negative part of the character. And and it is something you had to. We get out of that but put the burden on somebody else. That separates, makes him special. If we think everybody is going to be like that he is not that special blues not that i want to take away the point of this but talking about entertainers, Michael Jackson everybody else has to be like that. And they do things on a level the average or super too many people cannot do but that separates them from everybody else and be considered greater carrying greatness within them, that is wrong. It doesnt help us. Black individuals, we dont have the luxury of having so many heroes. We need to be careful about bringing those people down. As an impossible level. There is only something to be accepted. I mentioned lebron being in that protection. He sent out a tweet the other day that has gotten tremendous play and publicity where he was speaking about the case of the young man in brunswick, georgia, was hunted down, white former Police Officer and his son in a case that has so many echoes of the Trayvon Martin case, we literally hunted every day, every time we set foot outside the comfort of our homes, cant even go for a damn job, are you kidding me . Now, are you kidding me . Im sorry, rest in paradise as my prayers and blessings sense to you. What does that do . Jaactually notices an injustice like this and amplifies it. What does that do . Doesnt do anything . Again we didnt have twitter 40 years ago. To have an outlet where you could voice how you feel about certain things without having to call a press conference, without having people around you or worrying how your message will be broadcast globally. You can make statements how you feel about some things, lebron has used that masterfully. This is how it feels and there is a lot of people who understand the feeling but dont agree with him having that feeling. The fact that lebron understands that there are there to support other society vo of people, i may be included and other people putting petitions, that is another thing. The fact we had to send out petitions to get these individuals, and they use Twitter Facebook and instagram. Used social media to put everything out there, lebron does validates their feelings. I hope it could play a small role in privilege about white people who are fans of lebron but had the privilege to not care about Ahmad Marbury and of lebron says something if you puncture that privilege it may have to be confronted with the reality of his life and justice in the country. I agree with you but heres why the hope will fall on deaf ears on nonmovement from the white side. He used the word we in this is a component of being black in america, i dont want to say globally but being black in america, White America doesnt understand how they separate us. When lebron used the word we they are like you are not a part of them. You dont get hunted down every day. It is in a different way. When you read his quote the backlash is going to be you are posturing, true to yourself in a part of society you dont exist in anymore and we know there is no separation from black folks, what status of life we live in. Most of White America doesnt understand so what you are saying, that is really hopeful, that the minute to use the word we, he included himself it is not a part of what he is saying. Host lebrons house was vandalized a few years back. Certain parasites of the sports page saying we dont believe that happened. And shake your worldview. That happened to me but lebron is not black. And he is the same believe. Im not black James Simpson a couple other folks, an amazing chapter in the game is not a game about womens sports. I read it with my daughter. It was fantastic, the unrestricted worth of the woman athletes. That speaks about megan rep eno and the way she tried to link with this tradition in a way that is interesting. A way that says i am not leading this, i just want as a gay american i know what it is like not to have my rights respected, making very little on the dollar that soccer players make, i get it and i support Colin Kaepernick and i will try to figure out a space where i can use my platform for Something Like that. Guest two regrets i have. We cannot spend a day together at seattle doing what wound up being a situation with nike, decent, long engaging conversations across the board. I got a deeper insight where he privately feels and respect her more. I have that entire conversation included in the book. I had a conversation with charles barkley, i could not include in the book. The other regret i had, had i not written a book before last summer. I would have included, and made it a 3 public chapter instead of the two pillar chapter. He is a powerhouse. She is not wavering. In my short time i get to spend time with her, doesnt seem like a person that will waiver or can be shifted because like many true, true, authentic people that try to not think about this, doesnt care what the response is. God knows. It is coming from the heart. Host coming from the heart. Guest i would be remiss, where Michael Jordan sits in the discussion we are talking about, sports, politics, activism, and where jordan fits. And what your impressions were. And you know what, i happen to be, it is funny because i wonder about a few individuals at 82 days in the superdome. I went to school in the university of new orleans and he found a way to get two tickets to go to the game in the superdome. They were way way up. People asked at the gate in North Carolina. Then came here and basketball at Chicago State University back in the day where it was something, michael did that. I cant remember if it was before or after but i am sure i met him at that point then. At some point during the course of the first 3 or 4 years we shook hands but the thing about it is i didnt mean anything to him at the time because he hadnt started the magazine. I was just a kid out of graduate School Getting my hope along. To be honest, when i shook his hand, you are scoop jackson, that came upon right on the edge of the first crime of maybe ring 3 or after that and host once you got to know him beyond the handshake what was your general impression . Guest i knew mike and all type of i was in his testimony even without meeting him and the people he hung with. I respected the fact that he seemed extremely authentic. A lot of people in a certain amount of fame, people dont understand how fast he became famous. They want to include the shot in North Carolina but we have seen chris jenny, chris jennings. Host it was Chris Jenkins. Guest Chris Jenkins hadnt won that and he sent his spark there. Michael jordans fame is really stark then. His fame really started when he got drafted number 3 behind sam dewey, that is number one and then introduced himself to the world during that olympics. That is when he started to go for broke. Than his first couple games in chicago where he went bananas and this kid is real. When you barely get in the first week of your career. A star is born. It started to really hit. This dude is like in chicago, he became extremely extremely quick. That being said, being around him and people i grew up with around him, michael introduced himself and didnt separate himself from the hood. Im a black dude from carolina, i am doing whatever the brothers do in chicago do, hanging with quinton daily, hanging with rod higgins, rod higgins was his boy, back in the day when there was no true celebrity kind of split. The world hadnt been invented yet. When you went places like we need to go through like charlie club or high black club back in the day, that could be it. You could intermingle, didnt roll like that. You hang out and walk around. He could be out there, the booze would be out there. For being as famous as he was. Never created a velvet gold. And over here. And Michael Jordan. He never did that. He does stories about it. He was like mister homebody not doing anything and walk into the hotel room and see the folks you mentioned and blocked in and walked right out, too much of a scene for him and thinking about his craft. Lets be real. Dont have me bring up the new york mets. My team too. You cant think the bold players or bold team, the phoenix suns, the nets around the line. That was what was going on, a little bit extra. He wasnt just ironing his shorts, kick it and he was part of whatever was going on and has always been that way but went from being part of what was going on to setting the standard. For what was going on. That brings me to the last dance. I have been very entertained. In the context of coronavirus, very grateful something on the sports calendar to look forward to, i have some real issues with this and problems with it. I want to ask what your thoughts are about it. Guest the same way you do. Separating myself or someone who was part of that last season, around the team, knowing of the participants of people in this i had to find a way, a fan of the dock use series and enjoy it for what it is and the narrative, not necessarily trying to shape, the purpose of this film. And keep the other side of things and find flaws in it, it what you dont have to do and what they are trying to do, they are trying to tell a story. What the last season was for them as a team. Not a documentary, not a documentary on whatever else you want to make it about, it is literally about that. I keep reminding myself why are they going deeper here, thats not a part of what this is about. I have to keep reminding myself to still enjoy it. I was upset about the absence of mentioning another author, mister craig hodges, no mention of craig when they were doing the flashback. Officially jordan and politics and a unique figure in the early 90s, to do something and craig is out of the script. Guest i more i love craig more than 99 . He wasnt part of the final team and everything is built around the final team. 2, ron harvard doesnt get admission and he is a big part of that. I cant expect craig to highlight the fact. Guest 9091. What is connected in the storytelling. Im not giving it a pass. I understand even if it is wrong. People currently on this team and they are not included. What the final season was like and being fair about all this. The fact they havent done anything outside of what Michael Scotti did i was talking about tony and he is important. A couple years before, the man of the year. He goes almost unmentioned. I am looking at people who were currently part of this team. And, and in cleveland. Questions piling up, i would be remiss about what you asked for and discontinue them, i want to phrase the question in two parts. When he took the deed, what are your thoughts now. This is something he didnt want to go public about. We members of the media but that. A movement he never asked for. Without saying that, he never went that route. I appreciated him not backing off because he never intended this. That is it. He never side away from the spotlight. I appreciate him on that. Moving forward i personally am glad he never got a chance. Never got the opportunity in the nfl. And and other individuals, what he did, i always wish he would have opened the very beginning. I understand how much this means but, the Bigger Picture of this, dont give them the luxury of being able to say we did this for you. Go out of this thing as a martyr. I never want him to give any nfl owners or the league itself a call in the story. Im glad what happened with him and whatever. Im glad hes not backing the nfl and never goes back to the nfl. Host not to self plug or anything, i have been quarantined and working on this book, got an idea about Colin Kaepernick, interviewing a lot of high school, middle school and college kids who took a knee. I dont think people realize how deep it got in really small communities. Death threats level at 14yearold kids, pulling up with confederate flags and guns, cheerleader taking finis in upstate new york, like so many stories. They really felt they had to do something but didnt know what it was and they can do that. Guest here is the thing, a brother cant take a dog in georgia without us having to do that, and investigations get those people arrested. You know what i am saying . That doesnt change the fact what Colin Kaepernick knelt for in the beginning, the situation we are living in right now, is what it has been about. Host shout out to people in georgia and indianapolis where shawn reed was gunned down. They are protesting in the middle of the pandemic wearing masks, trying to take stay 6 feet apart and it is not going to get one tenth of the coverage of the confederate waving, gun toting michigan protesters or anything like that and these folks are risking their health because they feel they had no choice to be heard. It is something. Let me ask you some questions. Ive got to run to the billy jones questions. Which book has changed the way you thought the most . Guest alex haleys book, not roots, but the book he did with all the interviews, alex haleys interviews. Alex haley interviewed a lot of the prominent social socially responsible individuals in america during a time with Playboy Magazine. People said to me, playboy or whatever, alex haley was that writer because he interviewed jfk, malcolm x, Martin Luther king. As a matter of fact his interview in Playboy Magazine was a spring board to malcolm x, they put all his interviews in Playboy Magazine in a collective and it is called alex haley the interview. I read them as i was coming up independently as a writer. We need things collectively consolidated, changes the entire digestion of what you just read, like listening to somebodys career musically over the course of their career and listening to that box, it changes everything, the one thing to answer that question was alex haleys playboy interview. That changed everything for me as a grown individual. Great answer. So many people when asked that question say autobiography of malcolm x and when you say alex haley i thought that is where you are starting but it was something more expansive than that. Guest not only has journalist questions but what he was able to answer, the answer he was able to get out of these individuals nobody was able to get. It was amazing to me to read, to learn about those people and what i learned about journalism and what i learned about not interviewing people but holding conversations, all of that came from that. Another question. Ive got to go through my billy jones questioning, referencing chapter 12 and the game is not a game. The chapter is called the numb in numbers and is a critique of analytics and the way analytics have done to sports and i get your point but do you feel analytics takes away from the soul spirit, emotion and intensity from the game. It is from a professional level and i am including college sports. They are professional operations. At some point because the money it generates would be foolish to look at them as anything but professional but i do think if somebody takes away the freedom on the professional level sports it is about winning. It is a winning business but i feel because of how relevant analytics has been not just from a consumer standpoint, and video and execution, there is a component. And from the athletes directly doing them as a reaction of thought. I do believe that. I never said analytics was all wrong. I said all analytics are wrong. There is room for both of these to be coexisting in professional sports, all or nothing. And black individuals and what that means, and, everything sports was meant to us. Howard bryant had a piece of coronavirus. And it was really difference when it was broadcast and brought to you and people played without being hung up on those front Office Details of analytics. The worst part was it puts the viewer in position of thinking like they were frontoffice persons conjuring crunching the numbers instead of immersing yourself in the joy of play. Lets take that back. How does it affect the athletes as they are out on the field. If they keep getting this information the way it needs to happen. It is low on the analytical breakdown. Guest im not going to take this shot because it is going to affect the percentages. It is going to bring down this. This is not a good shot. The one thing i do is separate basketball from analytics. Basketball such immediate reactionary sports, hard to include that type of data being at the forefront, strategically and and this, that and the other. Basketball and soccer. You react to what is in front of you and doesnt lend itself to think the numbers or movement. Hands video coordinator to the assistant coach or want the data executed. It doesnt lend itself as it does to whether basketball or soccer, and they specifically use basketball. If i was in the media, how we apply analytics to tell stories and leave so much out. We are stressing certain data why certain things happen. One last question, if you had the power to change the sports and entertainment industry, what do you do . Guest put more Winter Sports on. In our toxic maledominated society, those who control, we miss out on not just performance, the greatness women bring to the table when it comes to competition and i would find a way to highlight that a lot more and make it become normal. Our columns under power plays, but in the week before kids come trampling in. Anyone starved for sports can tune in and see diane and Breanna Stewart and all these amazing athletes, soccer, all of it and take it in, see it for what it is. Then you have a black History Month all over again. What is that doing . They deserve to be put as an introduction, make it just normal, make it part of the regular influx in this country. 80 of the sports or being told to watch or having the ability to watch. 20 of that is not equality. Host someone who lives in dc and got to see the washington mystics roll through the championship it was a lot of fun. Guest Christopher Christie tolliver. Host people would opt out of having fun, just so maddening, speaks to the sexism you are talking about. Guest i deal with this in the book. Those who champions Winter Sports. We are still not doing our part on our regular normal basis by incorporating medicine into what we do on a regular basis. The nba finals, we need to say it was the nba finals. Not watching wimbledon or womens soccer team or the basketball team. The engagement around me, lets go through the bar and watch it. I am not rallying like we do a football same the chief lady ram, guess what . You know, why not . Why wouldnt we do that . Why arent we doing that when it comes to the nba finals . To get to the barn and not show and demand they show it on screen. Considered more normal, as far as im concerned. Think of ways we can correct purposes of promoting what is really important. I you are absolutely right about that. Jackie moran has an interesting question for you. How useful is the w e b du bois booker t. Washington argument about political versus economic activism as a way to move against racism. How useful is that, to understand the the braun james Michael Jordan duality . Guest we are living in a day and age when at some point you need the voice was spectacular, talking about the duality that African Americans and blacks have to live in and talk about the souls of black folks in 1903, mister washington was on Something Else on the economic side, what black people have to amass to find some type of electric in this company in a few points, i look at both of them and understand the role they play today, i dont hold once again in those roles. I dont ask Michael Jordan to be a socially outspoken as lebron james when handling these economically. And no other. And replacing black executives, and what it means. A mask not only 1 billion, in a country, was first and foremost. Guess what, taken out of that conversation. And liberating us, normalizing us. Normalizing black individuals. Im not trying to be flippant about this but before jack johnson and joe lewis are considered 3 human beings, they gave us now you keep that role in mind and one of the only three black billionaires in this country, somebody who did it through sports. If you take that aspect out of this conversation, what role do sports have without somebody amassing some type of ownership or billionaire debt. Im not going to look at mike to be a social activist on the role he played. I understand the role he played in giving lebron a path to follow. You didnt have to follow the safepath but he could follow part of the past and still be socially conscious and put out messages that resonate beyond the money he will amass. At the same time i dont expect lebron james to be craig hodges, you know what im saying . I think at this point what du bois and washington were talking about, a balancing act across the board with everything they spoke about, part of the individuals at the top of the food chain from an athletic standpoint, socialism and economics. Interesting, interesting indeed. I had my critiques of jordan over the years but when people ask about him speaking out i asked are you speaking out and why do we ask of athletes what we dont ask . It is the superman syndrome where you expect somebody to come down from planet awesome and that comes out of desperation to see social change and a misreading of history. When malcolm x doesnt happen you dont talk about mohammed ali and a function of their time. Guest we were not existing, starting 8 or 9 years ago. There seems to be a large generation of apathy. By using their voice connected to economics. Had they used their voices or whether they feel a certain way and when dealing with black america during the time we are talking about, it let it go that way. More generations of athletics where what you are going to be charged with, and his athlete, society is apathetic also. There is no, quote, black power militant political, socially, active movement the same way it was in the 70s to the 80s 90s there was no, quote, movement, the way society was behaving. A few athletes who try to keep the flame alive, craig hodges, they found themselves on the other end of the booth, part of labor discipline, trying to say you are not allowed to do that and that is the thing about Colin Kaepernick. He has so much more value to the nfl it is like a ghost story to do what he did or else he will you will find yourself on the way out. A form of labor and racial discipline, a spiral of silence. You Say Something in society through the media for the most part, the power to spiral you into silence, many athletes go through that. Not such an island by themselves. At the time they did it from a media standpoint or business standpoint make them seem, they were not the norm they were the outcasts. Their voices became quieter and quieter and quieter, instructed not to rally around them because there was no galvano station what they were saying that we are in a situation where stephan curry or others want to take those things from rallying around. Colin kaepernick came at the right time, they were not able to isolate him because of the movement that existed where he was going to find support regardless of the direction the media wanted to take the story with the way the nfl or others take it. And outlets to communicate your ideas as well through social media. I remember interviewing 15 years ago people who were against bush and the war and outraged by Hurricane Katrina and all of these emotions, why dont you speak out about this . Their answer was have you ever looked at the sports media. There are not a lot of people i can talk to to tell my story. What is the point of talking to them if i just get crushed for doing it . Guest if they had individuals in sports who come to like you or i, trying to sell that story as well. Guest you wrote an article about being in a room with other journalists and being the only one who had editorial power about what you were writing but it made a strong impression on you as a young person that a couple black journalists came to you and said you get to actually see what you write. Guest a good thing for you but for me it is a sad thing because you look around and you see other individuals that are working at places that apparently you should want to go, and and if im a small entity and have you going where they are means useless. That is cool thing and it was sad for me. Host i thought the column was cool because i remember it 20 years later. The writing stayed with me. Guest that is my job, what i do. Host your writing is sticky in that it sticks in the brain. My take on it is that this is so dependent on the movement and cases going on outside the league. I think youre not going to see much if the nfl exists as a vacuum but if we start seeing and we are seeing it. We talked about almond artery. If we start seeing these cases pop and people get angry, i think theres a pipeline that exist between the people and players that didnt exist before. So its something you can see reviving american but its not going to revive itself in a vacuum. Its like the old expression, youve got the steam and the motor. You need both the steam and the motor for the motor to run. Heres my thing. The way i look at it, lets say that the owner of the falcons into happened of their backyard. If he does anything, if he speaks out for the families, the nfl owner does anything in this situation, i would say power to whatever youre fighting for. Thats what they are trying to call, a larger party of nfl ownership, at least acknowledge whats going on and act like thats not even an issue with us. The kneeling was about injustice. Human injustice to people of color, specifically black people at the hands of Police Officers. In this case, those who have guns or dont look like they have guns or things that happen to us because we are black. Thats what the entire movement was all about but because it happened inside the construct of the nfl, on nfls time, it became this. Where may have been trying to voice something latter outside of the nfl, i think their mission was to see if anybody inside the nfl heard them. Once again, lets use our current situation, if a situation goes on, tribute in some way, using his voice saying hey, an organization that would not stand for this. He puts the falcon seal on, and its working. You would be able to not be over with a feather if that happens. I would like to see that happen. I feel like the nfl is almost distinct from other sports we walked in love, theres an entrenched soul of racism in the National Football league because part of the sport, youre looking at black bodies like they are disposable. The nfl stands for not for long. There are only fully three black curtains right now. Thats how many when johnny clark tried to put in the first place. As the price 20 years ago and its three again. The amount of executives i think is even lower now. We talked about there being no ownership and its hard to separate representation of how the players are treated on the field with self and how to supposedly they are treated in the game. You look at running backs and they are predominantly black individuals. How disposable they have really become. That could be part of my argument toward power because analytically, they are running the. Reporter over the course of this. Basically, youre basically just exercising the right to eliminate an entire roll of football from a fullback and running back with 99 are black. What you said but i will keep it on the field thats real talk there. The canary and in the coal mine. Get ready. You could say there are three but for me, black individuals, we shouldnt just stop at the public situation. Theres so many roles within the nfl and other major sports. There are so many other roles that we are qualified for and should be dominant in to reflect our intellect in the sports that we are not even part of so i hit the conversation to stop, i just dont want the conversation to stop because we could stop it right now, that means when there are 11 back coaches instead of three, then everything is awkward. No, its not awkward. Its the same thing out there with my colleagues if a team back to the leak. If the team took him back, there would be a whole kumbaya situation where is back in the leak, everything is all good. No. Once he took it, theres a problem. Hill has that great line where she 720 years, the nfl will give out the call and up next social justice toward as if none of this ever happened. I could see the happening. If they do it, will we fall foot . That is the question. We had a request from somebody listening to you on my podcast, we are just about out of time. I always ask you what kind of listing music you are listening to these days. You have a mind for music. Sure some of what you are listening to. Ive been taking deep dive into the dj set, mixed crowd. Basically spend the crude since the quarantine, ive really just gone to mix cloud and looked for their various djs. Tribal help music. Everyday is a different journey. Outside of that, did you realize they put up strapless for the last dance . They did . It is so dope. Of course it is. The last day, ive been going through the playlist with the doc you serious. Is on soundcloud . I got it on spotify. Fantastic. I could listen to black sheep all day. Bc boys up in there. Its really dope. I think its like 45, maybe . Ive had it on repeat the last few days. That sounds good to me. The book is the game is not a game. Any last words . Not at all. Not about the book. I think the book weeks for itself. I was glad i was able to get out. Nineteen years in the making, two years to write. We have not just a better sports world but real world, if people take the time to read this and listen to what scoop is trying to say. Pick us up not only for yourself but that niece and nephew you have, get this for them as well. Buy a copy for yourself and five more copies give away to people who care about and both. Its an act of love to check this book. That is my hope. Scoop jackson. Thank you so much for taking the time. One shot up. Yes, and ive got a closing thing to read. I want to shout out to my knees data. Im wearing my hat today because today is their graduation. All the while, celebrating graduation but the situation didnt lock them to graduate on campus but i least want to give them a shot up because graduating from college is a big big deal. Yeah, well. The atmosphere. Im proud of my son, during remote homework teachers are piling on. I want to arrange folks about scripps events, another chicago event and jim johnson, what school means and how we can reimagine the meaning of Public Schools with an antiracist liberatory fissionable education could be. If youve never seen it, may 14, he want to be there. May 19, haymarket post abolished ice, not just in slogan. Immigrant justice in the age of coronavirus. Thank you, skip. What you remind people if youre in a position to make a donation, please consider giving to haymarket. Thanks to everyone who during this call from all over the world. We hope to see you soon as we live stream and thank you, scoop. Its an honor. You know how i feel about you. This probably means more to me thank you. I appreciate it. My heart is going boom, boom. Be well, scoop. Here are some of the current bestselling nonfiction books according to the wall street journal. Topping the list are two memoirists for untamed and former first Lady Michelle obamas first becoming. After that, thoughts on the medical community and plague of corruption. Followed by fox news host out of the presidency and future of the country and american crusade. Wrapping up, a look at some of the bestselling nonfiction books according to the wall street journal, the splendid and the file, historian eric larson study of Prime Minister Winston Churchills leadership during the london blitz. Some of these authors have appeared on book to be if you can watch them online booktv dont work. The president from public affairs. Available in paperback and ebook. Presents biographies of every president , organized by their ranking by noted historians from best to worst. Features perspectives into the lives of our nations chief executives and leadership styl styles. Visit our website from three spend. Org the president to learn more about each president and his terrain feature. Order your copy today wherever books and ebooks are sold. Lived throughout loss of confidence in our institution, a wave of cynicism thats left us unable to trust what we are told by anyone who calls themselves an expert, it becomes difficult for us to rise to a challenge like this. Our first reaction to say no, they are lying to us, their only and for themselves. A lot of our National Institutions have got to take on the challenge of persuading people again, that they exist for us in here for the country. Sunday noon eastern on indepth, lift conversation with author and American Enterprise institute scholar, you will. His most recent book is a time to build. Other titles include the great debate in a fractured republic. During the conversation with your phone calls, tweets, text and facebook messages. Watch indepth on book tv on cspan2. Up next on book tv, were going to show some author programs from our archives that focus on the issue of race in america. A couple of the authors you will see include cornell rest and