Next, florida senator mark arri u. S. China relations and the coronavirus pandemic. This was hosted by the Hoover Institution. Good afternoon im a fellow at the hve wel conversations. The Hoover Institution one of the centers dedicated to producing pols iisaffirm economic prosperity, National Security governance. Detail a bit about our capital conversations series this is a time when hoover feels like they get to talk also some of our nations leading policymakers. Today were fortunate to have with us senator marcoo talk aboutmericas future after19. As part of a discussion will be taking audience questions from you so encourage you to submit your question at the q a button located at the bottom of your screen. Without lets get started. Senator rubio as all of you know is the trade center from florida. Number of committee assignments, committee on aging he is carly chairing the committee on intelligence as was the committee on Small Business and not of a new ship. Hes been a leading voice on a number of different issues. Thanks for taking some time this. I want to start with what i think is the single biggest geopolitical challenge we face the country and thats china china. A lot of news comingly the news this morning that the United States has asked china or cemented the china close its consulate in houston texas, because of activity has been going on there. Recent challenges in terms of chinese hackers trying to get and yes to find a covid19 ccva activities. I would ask you whe headed in this relationship . Do you see things getting any better anytime soon . Whats going to take from a policy perspective for us to address this rising challenge . I think first what are the first and most important things that we have to sort of frame itt historical unus every time in the World History which has been a sort of rising power, that creates the sort of tensions. The best way to think about it is at the end of the Second World War the United States was by far the worlds dominant Industrial Park with two of the potential rifles and germany had been this rebuttal war. Great britain had been badly hurting to detroit. Ng ced lots of force. E deal of the cold war was we which west germany went to japan come with a european allies and help them rebe favorable terms and interest. We allowed them to build these industries through protectionism on their end and access toets to do what well do all these things for you by the help provide national defense. In the case of germany and japan we did want to develop another armed forces again. T we wanted to s of u. S. And cold war ends and these countries are no longer and are now major industria powers and so about the mid to late 1980s china decides it wants to, ethics became to grow and build its armed capacity. China has used the last 150 ye world to be a great power and have been building towards that. Use makes a similar deal and that is we are going to help you poverty build your industrial capability because we think what you do, we said this to ourselves once they do this come once a get rich and pow to ascribe to global rules trade and power. They were probably not be communist anymore. The walkway fromore like this. That waset that was made. Turned out that way. Out is are certainly availed themselves of the benefits of these policies through a combination of protectionism and capitalism but not sort of moved at all have changed in that regard or were rescheduled it is china has made a a rapid economic rise in the last 20 years. And now the what use their newfound status in what you rewrite Global Trading and want to become the d and at sectors in the 21st century. The United States sort of made this guy commission that it was okay for us let industries go abroad envyrom lower prices and it doesnt matter where its made if theres borderlessd sort of benefit wil would be great. Didnt work out that way. Things didnt be readjusted. We woke up and realized thats not the way its play. Investing during the Critical Industries and capabilities in our own country. Now we try to make up for 15 years ofy short and condensed window and play catch up it feels like a lot. Its also happen at a time which china isssertive th result. Ul the two most powerful nation on earth for the foreseeable future. Our relationship with defined the 21st the 21st century and what we to see china become more democratic but whate have the most control over in the short to midterm is the nature of our relationship in that it is not an equitablend balance relationship between two great powers, then i think the potential for conflict and terrible things happen and begin to rise so we allow this imbalance to continue. That will require us to stand up to some of these unfair pr home in terms of what we invest in what w prioritize. And what of those times when our nati interest, when a a market come to market outcome leads to a result thats not in our National Interest . Yes, it is probably more efficient and cheaper to make certain things in china but we shouldnt want to depend on china for everything the basicrmaceutical ingredients to the ability . O be a leader in World Telecom 5g or biomedicine or any of the other innovations that are coming. Were in the midst of all that wetness and well have to work multiple administrations and takes that the converted time to get it right. You mentioned a number of pressure points in a relationship. I want to go through those and here all a bit about how you would address them, how you think congress should address how this administration should address them. Situation involving Human Rights Violations and the uighur population in western china. This is something i think its not been covered there enough here in the u. S. Are preferred about it now increasingly from media sources that foreign media sources. What more needs to be done to address this. Had we press forward on this issue when its clear that chinese have no interest at all their treatment of this minority groups . Group . I can tell you this. The duke about the global reputation. They do care about global perception. I think the revelations about that whats happening with the uighur population and xinjiang is damaged the global image tremendously. I think its made it very difficult for many in europe as an example to turn a blind eye. It increase of puts pressure on the muslim world to speak up more forcefully. About these extorting abuses. Number one we cannot allow this sort of practice they going on in the world. Suggest a moral standpoint i think that something our country needs to be clear on. Something i think the rest of the world needs to speak out on but theyre not going to do unless we dont do it first because many of these countries cant sustain a diplomatic oric bwback that comes from speaking up in the third is the hope is that of pressure will temper that behavior. They will recalibrate the cost trategy. Its a horrifying notion that the Mighty American or western companies benefiting from forced labor. Its deeply horrifying, and notion that we could actually be using tad no idea were made by someone working under the force and compelled theyre doing it is something that horrifies all of us. We saw some of the protective medical equipment that people are using was built in a factory that the government owned. There is no easy answer to stop it but its something we cant be silent on. It is having an effect on chinas ability to influence events in other countries and out other count phey are carryint. Another pressure straddleg kong whats going on in hong kong with the passage of the new National Security law there that i think eviscerates this one country to make systems promise years ago. Talk a little bit about the retion to that. Here congress has act there more that we nee is, a lot of hong kong wass sort of commercial base, commercial hub fortaff seems to be moved to other places. Is hong kong ever going to be the same place again that was s say ten think it can be. One of the things they give hong kong benefits that was not just the status economically but the notion that if united commercial dispute, you would go to a court it would adjudicate it fairly and nonpolitically. Nonpolitically. Now with the sort of take over in the judiciary there is growing doubt and the should be among companies that if they enter come if they get into commercial dispute with mainline Mainland China cup if there will not treated fairly in courts and contracts are not come to the adjudicate a philly. The personal consent if you world according to the law the way it is being defined you can be arrested. Theoretically could do travel to hong kong and they could arrest me for some tweet i put out once in my living room in miami, florida criticizing china. Ey have to be shocked how strong the response has been from drent places and on the domino scale is what theyreng what they eventually will do with some enforcement of reunification and some back when the time is is there a particular policy prescripon on taiwan you think we should be following . I know youve spoken very clearly on this and a number of your colleagues in the senate have been very clear about t need to. Is there more that needs to be there . Yeah three things. The first, i think there are individually persecuted and i hope our country will provide them what weve always provided people in circumstance asylum. The second we cant allowefit from im sorry, we cant allow the inese mainland to benefit from the best of both worlds. They abide by the nation two systems and they get the benefits of it. And we cant allow them to treat hong kong as anrules when it comes to and commerce we follow through with the complaollow through with it because part of the chinese calculation is ultimately the world will anything about it because they want so badly to have access to do business with us that in the end, banking on and assumed and if them right, then the next place is going to be taiwan and there will be no for them. If you look at the south china sea, militarized it changed the condition on the ground and they hope that everyone cant do something about. Thats what theyreoing with hong kong and with tibet and taiwan. On the economic piece, the economic relationship wthere more there that we need to be doing . I know theres a bunch of work youre doing trying to trance paint more with companies in the u. S. Is there me that we could do particularly around ip theft and the constant issue we seem to have wellments of the chinese par expropriate american ip and goods and things developed in o fre address the vulnerabilities theyve taken advantage of and the federal review of the purchase of a keyyre following sort of to find in europe as well who are distressed from the pandemic. Lend them money when these Companies Default that this they now take that company over. Its one way around the sifius refew review. And intellectual property if to do business in china. We have to identify what are the 5, 10 15 key sectors the economy that we have to have not just in domestic capability, but to be able to exhibit world leadership whether its technologically or manufacturing capability and we have to ensure that our preferably we have a domestic ability to produce it if not a domestic ability to produceit an ally. 5g is a technology and whoever dominates it will set the global standard and printing and products to autonomous vehicles, will all 5g 7 whoever sets the standard for 5g will also set the standard for the things that 5g. Huawei was getting a footprint in different markets and that was the [inaudible] risk of making them sort of the leader in reason they were able to do that is because their quality may not be as good theyre kia or any other americano they can undercut their competitor. There has to be an alternative. Some may be the software base. Whether its a u. S. Company that does it or a consortium with the brits and our allies and m technologically better than what china has to offer. That now exists. In the bill in front of the senat is a bipartisan effort in that bill to create a fund to spur not just domestic Technological Research on 5g, but to stand up an International Allied consortium along with japan, india, u. K. Europe and thats one of the problems. We dont want huawei, but its the only thing we can and we have to have 5g and we believe an alternative thats better and cheaper and huawei. Before we leave china, a question from steven one of our viewers, who asked about chinas involvement in other parts of the world. Are we still seeing china in latin america, cuba venezuela, something were seeing and we should be counter acting . I think the main way theyve done it through economic investment. Not dissimilar to what youve in some cases and they come in with a promise of a big investment and for a lot of these countries no other way of accessing the capital, it sounds like a good deal ultimately they wind up an in a death trap and the requires you to comply with their line of national institution. Thats the challenge and the pandemic created more opportunities for that, but just put your underdeveloped country, you want to have infrastructure and the only people out there offering you money to build roads ands or ports is chinese so you take it because politically it makes you look good addition there are of breeb br]gery, with are in addition to looking good politically, you or someone you know is looking good. You owe a bunch of money and you cant pay it back and youre in the debt trap. A new approach and help offset some of it and working hard to talk to countries around the world about it and weve seen blowback in many parts of africa awell against the debt trap diplomacy that÷z weve seen in the past. Yes, there are real challenges in panama where the chinese control of Significant Holdings in and around the panama canal zone is of d concern to this country from a National Security and commercial perspective. You talk about cuba and venezuela, theyre involved in those countries for different reasons. In the case of perations targeting the u. S. Coming from there. In case of venezuela theyre not as pronounced as the rushes russians and they want to get paid. Theyve been involved in exporting fiber monitor ll a censorship. I want to move from the challenge to economic challenges that we have at home because of covid19 and whats happened there. Maybe reflect back a little bit on t that congress has been able to do in conjunction with the administrationnomic time. Were still i of one now, obviously. What were some Lessons Learned from how congress was able to come together and act. People complain about it being such a polarized time and politics seems t r and get some things done including its tough, im a republican and the debt not thingss. In on the pandemic t the first is a lot of the ec is not the result of bad Business Decisions or moral hazards and you know just recklessness on part of is basically te you open under constraints and even if theyre not tel theyre telling the customers that. If youre open theyreo go out. Actually very similar to a right to deny you to take your property from you, but they have to compensate you for it. The way i view the reason the businesses are going tdk regulations are put in place for a public good, but an obligation if youre going to do that to compensate for it. The second reality, some these things are happening if unaddressed will ce to the economy and to our labor markets that will take us a decade to recover from and make it even harder to pay down the debt and make it harder to move the pandemic, which is a big deal in and of itself is happening in a moment of extraordinary economic realignment of which, you know weve had three or four p economic realignment and followed 20 or 30 years lateryical adjustment. Takes government two, two and a half decades to catch up to the changes in our economy, changes of wi nes and creates cultural and social friction that was happening and you put the pandemic which exacerbates the people who have job from home because of the new economy all living one way. People who have to show up to despite the pandemic or are out of work. You cant do hotels or auto repairs online, but you can do banking and do all sorts of other services. So thats created a fracture point as well. And then just the regular disruptions, graduating class of seniors from college have no labor market to enter into and what the impact of that is going to mean longterm. So all of those things its a pandemic that happens to exacerbate preexisting pension pension tensions that were happening because of the realignment that were living focusing in onng to happen next with congress and potentially another round to covid19 and some of the Economic Issues that have the patriot protectiont small that was actually quite at saving jobs. A study fromays it saved between a million and a half and three mil program was successful. The question Going Forward, moue continue to help Small Businesses gros they need t academy back on track . Is there more Small Business directed help youre looking xpect in this next round of relief . I think there are two ways. Extent they can is helping a business restart, in pra lets say you do a small restaurant and doing well and you want to restart, but in order to restart you need the cash you may not have on hand to rehire workers and buy supplies and local regulations, protective e like. So thats one function of it. Ultimately the phase is something thats more longterm and well have ton the road. Right now were in the response phase, well see surges in different es. Well continue to see surges. I dont think any governorld take a victory were not ireland or new zealand and and to recover it requires strength. The followup response will be more tailored and entities under 300 employees or meet the fda guidelines 60 for pay roll 40 for other allowable forgivable expensesment and designed not to put them in a place they were before the pandemic, but in a place to hold onto workers enough in the present so contagion in the real estate them on the unemployment rolls and the problem that creates for our country. And so you dont lose the businesses that may restart and take place. Thn the dealing with it with the pandemic alleviate symptoms so this thing cycles through, but we cannot replace a functioning economy with any government program. Eventually thats why we have to invest in the things that ultimately allow us to get back to normal. That means tiche disease and outcome as well. And what thing that impacted our health care in florida and all over the country. Do you have a view and this is a question from one of our viewers, doug view on the Health Care SystemGoing Forward . Are there other health care things that ought to be included in the next round of relief . Three things number one we have hospitals ap facilities around the country that have ted because the way theyre structured financially is that their ability to provide, whether its uncompensated care or Medicare Medicaid care andforth, and its ability to do nonessential type boththats the first thing that goes when theres a surge. So they lose that source. And you dont want to lose the viability of that the result there ho p my life were meant to wo happens if youre doing something productive. Youre rewarded for it, but makes you feel like you matter and it opens the door for you to be a father a mother husband, wife a member of the community and w take that away everything crumbles. Communities fall apart. u families fall apart. It all becomes very difficult so thats why i believe so protection. The more people we can keep job, youre helping a family when youre the uncertainty i think of my parents, my dad was a par tender a erer bartender at a hotel and my mother worked the at hotel. They would have had no job and i know the weight on their shoulder and our and i think its a policy. We talk about going back to schoife cost and benefit. And there are certainly e extraordinary cost to not opening, and meals at School Things we dont think about, substantial number of child country. Sports Football High School m of and for thousands of young men, the only family unit that they have. Men, the only positive male model is their coaches. Them at the fool and on track to college, not even for football, but just simplistic the best families to get ifferent times and places and lowers of the risk and allows the advantages. I live in south florida. I dont expect that theyllt august 22nd. Another without school what do you tell the nineyearold andake them probably in a muchiskier setting than schoolbe. I think there are two strong pro family that we getting the economy to create the jobs and theirid to get back to school in a setting that allows them to continue to grow intellectually is the two most pontiac things you can do for the School Reopening question is a big now. A lot o parents and people struggling with. A from you think the balance is between the federal governments role here and state governments, county governments, local School Districts . Where does the balance fall educational decisions this year . I think the bulk of decision has to be made at the local level. Because every community is in a different plfceh6nd if your Community Spread is at a school. If people go to homes, i think the spread is a key part of when you can reopen. Were goinghat o that in a lot ofof this. Its important that they open safely. Thermals apologize if in this business and the thermal cameras for temper kid are and what population largely asymptomatic, but lotf people with less tests. You know, if we somehow to innovate athome testing id available, if we had home testingorancy able. But if it woul affordable think how m would be if every day someone could take a tesve couple oest for everybody. Imon, but many ofschool buildings are lsed get the technology to get the schools open again andisthe decision at local level. They know wt theot all districtshe same. Do yoabout we talked abo this a little earl doing all of this economic support because were in the middle of a crisis we have. There are deficit here and there are implicationsappening Going Forward. Time to deal with those questions . D i mean there could be a pathway at some pointhenistration whatever to deal with the now . Yeah country in the worldnding at this the paci2gc. Because no nation to doillions there isnt a th that isnt feeling the short and longterm implications for their cmas to be dealt with. My big you thener s a decade or more to dig out of itano get harder to generate the growth you need to get out of the debt. Its not like is going to allow us to avoid ppp as an example. We can spend keep people attached to employment or were going to have to spend the money on unemployment becht. Going to have to do one or eventually it starts to through. I hate to use thenalogy war, in the civil war it had to do world war ii world war i as well. You dont to do it wont b to worry about. Im not talkingreckless im unrelated matter and that the debt in the longterm. Its mandator by Discretionary Spending and in the end,er the pandemic is the same as it wasore the pandemic and that is we are going to have a reckoning and theolitical will in this it is tha do with these em to a more sustainable path. Well our time together come to a close. Let me leave with one final question for you, in the time ive known you, youre a guy who articulates a hopeful vi and what we want to do. What is in the midst of pandemic and the midst we face with china . What is one thing that gives you hope as we l yeah so longterm i trade places with anyhe way things are going and worry about the problems who do i wish we were want chinas future which i think hasof i dont want the of most developed country, places like europe. Theres just no i would trade with. I think what gives me hope our nation has before that we have worked through moments like ink frankly. I would argue 1968e divisive than 2020 is despite what youre seeing on television on a daily basis. I know this pandemic is very serious. We fou world war that disrupted daily life for years and came out victorious. Our people and this cou to do those things. I think well do it i really do. This is a nation that constantly will invent itself. And everyone here canxw their lineage, refused the old country or brought here as horrifying thing, and thats who we are, gogetters and thats from as people. Its gng to be messy, loud chaotic and at times its goingless, but thats the way weve alw through our troubles and i ll again. We dont spend enough time catching people doing the right thing. There are a lot of people on a daily basis every day, keeping an eye on their who lives alone. Making masks at home to donate sending food local hospital to feed nurses and doctors because theyking written about. We dont dd every day. Somewhere in america there are thousands ofoking at things that are happening and learning lessons during the pandemic we do business and work thats going to eacr whole host of opportunities we havent visioned yet. Thats where i think well wind up. It going to be a rough ride were a rock and roll kind of place. Were not a calm place, but we get there. Thank you, th hopeful note. Thanks for taking time things are super busy for you. Thank you for taking time conversation on issues i know americans of thinking about. Well take you