Author Jack Fairweather a former war reporter in iraq and afghanistan author of the good work. Served as the Daily Telegraph chief and video journalist for the Washington Post in afghanistan. Interviewing him today is doctor robert young one of the main authorities on the history of auschwitz. 1997 through 98 to develop the master plan and was an Expert Witness against the author of david ernie irving of holocaust deniers. The first if you click house coping on housekeeping note we will have about 15 minutes for audience q a at the end of the program. Make sure to hold your questions for the end we will get as many as possible. Please note the program is being recorded and will be available on the Youtube Channel within the next few days and i will follow up with that email tomorrow related to jacks book for purchase in a link to the video recording today. That is it for me so i will turn it over to jack and robert youn young. I will be interviewing jack today the first with a presentation basically presenting the core ideas so it would be best then we can start talking. It is all yours. Thank you so much into the museum of jewish heritage it is great to have this opportunity to share the story of a truly remarkable man and so to began telling you about who he wires as a steam to define so much of a man and his legacy and then taking it with a brief tour of his life so let me start sharing my screen. I would like you all to begin picturing september 19, 1940 just after dawn the operatives sitting in the district of warsaw that is the Apartment Building he was sitting in on the third floor. And here he is sitting to the left in this photograph. A reserve officer in the calvary a devout catholic and father of two. Here are a couple of images. His wife maria is a local schoolteacher. This is one of my favorite images. Before the war poland was one of the most pluralistic societies in europe and one tenth of the population is jewish. That was the scene for when hitlers forces invaded on the campaign. [inaudible] and those plans to exterminate europes jews. He said he was intent on the destruction of poland by a eliminating the intellectuals to round up lawyers and doctors and journalists, writers, even in the top chess player and there is images from october 1939 showing a typical roundup and to emphasize the germans were arresting catholics and jews alike with the indiscriminate roundup in many respects. 50000 polish nationals were killed in the first few months of the german occupation. A staggering figure. The following year in may 1940 the germans began a new concentration camp in the south of the country that they called auschwitz. A prewar map of poland in the eastern part of the country and in the southern arrow points to the town where the germans called auschwitz. Little was known what was happening inside the camp. A round up and you for warsaw that morning in the district and in fact that is why he was ther there. His mission for the underground was to infiltrate the camp and gather evidence for the nazis. Now getting back to the apartment, now imagine the sound of trucks pulling up outside with the gunshots following. A knock on the door he said get out while you still can. He doesnt. The mission is to remain at his sisterinlaws apartment and he is in a room with his nephew, a three yearold boy named maverick and polanski notices the teddy bear has fallen on the ground. Just as there were footsteps on the stairwell and the door burst open he picks up that teddy bear and hands it to the boy to see that he was scared and then polanski turns to the german soldiers and steps into captivity. Three days later he arrives in auschwitz. Here is the camp. The terrible words that we all now. And here he is now as a prisone prisoner. Over the next two and half years he forged an underground army and short one ill switch to assassinate ss officers and had an armed uprising. He was arriving at auschwitz and beginning as a concentration camp for polish nationals he witnessed the steps they conceived of the final solution to europes jews. He was the first person to seek to war in the world of the horrors of the camp in the first to try to stop them. Three years before allied commanders publicly acknowledge house with one the auschwitz role he was calling on them through secret messages smuggled out of the camp to destroy auschwitz. For all of his exploits, his story is almost unknown. I only know by chance i met up with the war reporter friend of mine and talking about our experiences in war zone china and my friend had just come back from a trip to auschwitz and had learned about the resistance cell in the camp. And that idea of resistance was possible and auschwitz was so startling and surprising to me i knew i had to find out more. And one year later, reports of polanski was finally translated into english. It was the most remarkable documents describing in great detail his experience in the camp. It also left unanswered, and any questions that polanski himself could not have known the answer to such as what happens to the intelligence that he smuggled out of the camp . Why did the allies not respond to his desperate pleas for action against auschwitz . So i will show you where he was house for many decades after the war in a small west london house with the understudy trust and one of the great parts of the story was revealed to me as i began to date into it which is why have we not heard about this man before . After the war, poland was taken over by soviet backed communist and he fought against them just as much as he fought the nazis in auschwitz and afterwards. And he was captured by the communist and executed in all traces of his wartime record hidden away. A single report of his was smuggled to london at the end of the war and it was housed in the archive. It was not publicized for decades for fear of sparking arrest back home. And then to be persecuted by the communist with the possible resistance and it took decades for his story to emerge. And here is a copy of the report that was kept under wraps all those years. And with the polish underground study trust that second shelf from the top you can see it is perpendicular to the shelf in that particular report because in my mind with the National Archives but know that is that remarkable document telling the story of his experience in the camp is housed. Many people dont seem to see the pictures. I dont know what happened. I can see it. Okay. Maybe we can have another go at reloading it so i will stop sharing. Lets try this. Is that better . Can you see them . It seems to be better i am guessing some people are saying we can see it. Yes. I can see just fine. Im so sorry for the inconvenience. And here is a filing cabinet where that report has sat so having acquainted myself with a report and having seen the mystery contained in it there are questions about what happens with intelligence gathered and as a personal challenge that i felt to understand what would make him risk everything for such a mission i also had a wife and two kids when i began the search and i really wanted to understand what would drive someone to risk everything on such a mission. So i went to begin to gather materials so the first person i wanted to meet. I am sorry again. We cannot see. I thank you just ended it or turned off the powerpoint . I see you but not the powerpoint. I will try again. There it is. That looks good. I flew to warsaw and 2162 we meet polonskys son andre how was a little nervous because he was a child when his father was executed and for decades he was told his dad was the enemy of the state not until later could he learn details of his fathers mission and so writing from his father story to write the mans biography but i should not have worried because he was the most delightful chap i could meet in his apartment and engaged and compassionate and curious. He said im not sure what you will find out about my dad. So i looked and said i am starting with you because little is known about your dad and his thinking so anything you can tell me will give me insight. So with the narrative nonfiction it reads like a novel everything has to be true so any insight into the thinking would be helpful for what change in the camp. One of the things that stunned me upon arriving in warsaw those that had fought alongside him. And even better when i could meet these gentlemen and women and take them to the places where polanski with that deed and i wanted to go to that where he looked at that mission. On the third floor we found the door and we knocked nobody answered so we should bang on the door like the gestapo. Because thats what it took with those inhabitants. And completely unaware this apartment was truly historic moment in history. That is the room in which polanski volunteered his mission to auschwitz. We are sorry again. We have the same problem people cant see it. Or maybe i stop intervening. Its hard to see if it is a localized issue. At this point i am nearing the end. I can see it. Case i will describe the images. For those who cannot. So now picture in your mind a very untidy studio apartment one of the things i want to do is to bring someone who had been in that apartment and you may remember that child that polanski had comforted moments before he was arrested sitting on polanskis knee that when america was still alive and looking very dapper. I took him back to the apartment and showed him around it was the first time america had been back since the war. And to push him to remember all sorts of details concerning the layout of the furniture in the room and he also spoke. In this moment what is going on . He was ready to go. What did he say to you when he was leaving . Know this is a video describing when the germans burst in and it shows him tearing up a little but at the end. And he was in tears remembering his engagement with his family. That was part of my approach to tell the story. And to those who had known him and taken to the places they had seen him in action. And with hundreds of thousands of details thats when i knew the book would be possible rising at the archives to discover over three. Doubt on three. 5000 testimonies hundreds of which describe polanski in an action or to describe moments he would have witnessed. So i could Start Building up scenes and collect for accuracy to create and immersive experience of his time in the camp. This approach was great to leave with a small anecdote with one of those great mysteries i began a project with, what happened to the report he smuggled out of the camp . And he describes his first report october a few weeks after his time in auschwitz. And a brutal atmosphere when they are starved to death and brutalized where polish nationals or catholics and then to control the world. But then he said no more and is concerned if he had and perhaps after the war the communist would have tracked him down and arrested him. But then to find his son and here is a picture of him. He had no idea he was the first messenger from the camp. But he does know his dad stayed with him and armed with that name my researcher went back to the underground study in west london and there are hundreds of reports from the underground in the archives there. So there was a folder in which contain the story how polanskis reports carried out by alexander in the camp made its way across occupied europe to reach the brixton london. I describe that incredible journey in the book i want to leave you today and what he wanted to tell the world in 1940 for the love of god that apartment on the polish government if we die in a attack it would be a relief this is the well considered request on behalf of comrades with torment. When i heard those words i had goosebumps they are pretty much verbatim what he made alexander memorize while in the camp. It is a stunning idea to think had the allies intervened i traced ten of his reports each time to find the process with family members and we tracing the journeys how the reports make their way to london. And the reason why i argue in the book so that he charts the steps by which the not teeten auschwitz into a concentration camp for polish nationals. And this things on extraordinary way and wind of historys great what might have been. I will leave it there and reconnect with you all with my sincere apologies. With the screen but hopefully we can engage in conversation now instead of the images. Thank you very much. Thank you. I would like to clear up a little bit of chronology if that is okay. So running up to half years april 43. So there are two major faces in the history of the camp to see the original formation of the polish concentration camp that if it is a transition and then when the first gas seeing takes place and also the mass murderer to be described in detail the prisoners not being useful anymore. And to the killings of the people and then to kill them and then finally and the spring of 1942 troops are arriving and initially in the gas chambers and the crematorium of that gas chambers are completed and thats exactly when he leaves. Of course there is quite an extent of literature from auschwitz. And the report that actually came out in 1944 the most famous report and he came unscathed and tried to warn the hungarians. Or if there is another discussion in the summer of 1944 of the raf and army if auschwitz should be blocked. Or bombed. So maybe i am interested of the polanski report or the request to bomb them when auschwitz is still a relatively small concentration camp and then to reflect a little bit but to the dilemma of 1940 and in 1944 the credibility and then to play a little bit. That is a great overview and it helps to show the full trajectory of the polanski story. We know of that debate of 1944 whether or not to bomb auschwitz and it is a simple as to what we should have done. But of course what polanskis story does is focus attention on his request many years before in 1940. Its important to understand the context by which his report is considered by the allies high command. Of the summer of 1940 and 1841 to be under attack by the blitz and that they have below 200 there is no immediate allies and in some ways to uncover the discussion like the air corporal and his subordinate i came to appreciate their concerns deciding whether or not to bomb auschwitz and with polanskis request seriously but he said something that was quite interesting. And to recognize it would be impossible with british warplanes all the way to auschwitz. There was no radar at that stage the Longest Mission ever from the raf. With the bounds of possibility its incredibly difficult that would be a political symbol. And then ultimately to order that like churchill. But the raf decided against bombing auschwitz in 1941 for those reasons. But i came to feel during the research that had they tried with a very powerful political symbol and then the name was hardly known among the allies. And then the president to try to stop with those atrocities that is crucial because two years later americans were on board and then access to heavy bombers that were more than capable and then the idea bombing the camp to stop them. And actually referred back to the first debate in their files to argue and that debate in 1944 to be informed of that first request from polanski and its important to understand the context and the decision regarding the polanski request and how that plays out and allied thinking stepping back from taking action. One of the great problems in the history of graffiti for the holocaust and particular from 1942 onward and then in their own population and any intervention is exclusively to be done on behalf of the jews considered to be unpopular would make it more difficult to fight the war because now it is a war to save the troops and not many people agree with. And that did not exist. So that interesting look how in this case the military in england were pro polish in 1940. They got the causes were heroic and very deserving even if not supported and that would have shaded their discussion the way in 1944 it was about the jews in auschwitz. And from that perspective but probably it would be an interesting way to look into the source of the military men. I came to the conclusion and then having his experience in the camp contracted with the response to what he was telling them. I came to the conclusion while it was understandable with the british response to the first request in 42 and 43 and with many sources had the lack of action unconscionable. Went to take approach to history and to those experiences at the time to let everyone have their say that is the failure to take action. I have the pleasure of writing the fourth biography the young man who ultimately was killed in the holocaust because i had to write an 80 page biography is to understand the diary. And a certain moment it clicks. That he falls in love with the character and get to the core of the demand. So i would just like to know so we really understand you. And there is a relationship between you and him and if you look to use shake his hand in the afterlife. [laughter] very nice thoughts. And the pursuit of your subject and it feels like you play catchup but i definitely remember the first time i really felt i did arrive at the same point in time as polanski and the recreation of his amazing escape from the camp. Thats why encourage everyone to read the book because his escape is one of the great war time escapes from any concentration camp. And then to write about the experience with the two narratives together is such a rich experience of what it was like to escape the camp. I wanted to follow in his footsteps that meant escaping from the camp the same hour, day even though it was decades later. At 2 00 a. M. I started along the banks to crossover the same bridge that polanski had done and to find the spots as he describes in his report but it did not identify otherwise, and he makes it back across the field ample and skied describes the hundred mile journey across poland and talks about the villages but not much more. I would usually turn up to say the only person here and on several occasions to families who had sheltered polanski and it was a lovely moment reaching the state house where polanski had spent some time to recuperate and maybe i can just share with you now that seen. Here he is. This is the man and has escaped and at the statehouse and here is it today when i got to visit it. [inaudible] that is the table where polanski sat down to start writing his first thoughts about the camp as a free man and i could sit at the table. It was a moment where i really felt i caught up with my subjects and to share in that moment with the hospitality of my house but also to reflect on polanskis experience in the camp as he had done in the same spot. If you were to meet him now what would be the first question you would ask him . I think for those of you who read through the book through his escape when he returns to his family and he really struggled and after the war was subjected to the communist takeover which is what we are emphasizing from 1945 cents polanski was plunged into the new struggle and was brought home to me that polanski had never spoken to his wife and looking over his experience and to share it. One of the last things he wrote as a free man was also one of the most beautiful and talking about sitting with friends in the camp knowing they would be executed the next day and reflecting that great regret in life they have not shared more. That was polanskis final thought as a free man. And if i could see him and to ask him if at that point he could Start Connecting with his family again. Everyone has had experience of stress in their lives and to drive wedges between those we love and to think there was a possibility of redemption but polanski offers that with his final comments and something we can all take away from his stor story. Looking at q a right now the questions im just picking out. Its about the title the volunteer. But to what extent was you really a volunteer that he was a military professional . And he saw his task as part of a continuous war as an officer of course the never capitulated. Because of that certain moment so a sense of duty and professionalism then in some way to suggest maybe he wasnt a volunteer or in relationship to his own ego. And to write very brilliantly songs about one of the great escapist in the book its a great question in the book is called the volunteer polanski is raising his hand and says i will do it but the story of how his mission was conceived is so important because it cuts to the heart of something about polanski that informs much of his time in the camp. He doesnt write much about politics i would say he doesnt like politics or politicians in the way they use issues to divide people but there is one act in his life when he stands up to his boss in the underground shortly after the germans have occupied warsaw and he takes up the fight against them. His boss wants to publish a manifesto to define poland as catholic and for polanski clearly that is divisive and he takes a stand against his boss to sign up with the polish underground to have that agenda. And in doing so and in the book. But then who he was. And then they all banded together and then to take the mission so i will have to ask you to volunteer and then to be told the mission that it was an impossible decision but still avoided the first roundup as he was struggling with this decision but in the end of course he did go and to me is the essence of why that the my began the presentation with and decided to leave behind his family and immediate circles and what he might be concerned with with an extraordinary journey. One of the people who is very famous especially with the holocaust and jews in polan poland, and he became famous was because of his appearance and incredible testimony and its very important in the movie. One of the interesting things in the beginning of the testimony as presented in the movie when he goes to the in the warsaw ghetto to see for himself what is happening inside the ghetto 1942 so in some way when he goes to the allied cuppercaseletter can say i start with my own eyes and bear witness to something i have seen. And very interestingly always an aristocrat from poland and admits to some friends of his that actually was quite wonderful because the jewish leaders i was meeting outside of the ghetto were not at all jewish. They would like polish gentlemen then the moment they go into the ghetto they slip the door and out wall in the house suddenly they became jewish amongst themselves and then it was incredible love and admiration but also the fact in some way he both recognized also the struggle. Now when he goes into auschwitz doesnt go there because of whats happening to the troops. So that would be a good thing for a moment to consider polanskis relationship what was known as the jewish problem. And that is one that i wanted to tackle in the book straightaway. So in prewar poland is multiethnic and diverse and the largest Jewish Population in the world which is just a melting pot of ideas and culture but also the scene of anti semitism and i think when i came to understand is its important to distinct on what distinction when you say antisemitism you tend to think toward the nazi ideology and that is not what life was like in the prewar poland pork one. There was a campaign to have polish jews in the gray to israel and different types of discrimination and he came from a conservative catholic background. I found no evidence to suggest he had anti somatic views but even had i think what makes a story so important is he left all that behind in his journey to the camp and found a way to reach beyond the immediate circle of friends immediate conception of friends to be polish to risk his life to report on crimes a prisoner of war and then the jewish families brought to the camp for extermination. Was such a pressing question but so relevant for all of us today and with those concerns to empathize with the suffering of others that is the challenge to us and that historians can teach us. I have a question for you said that is such a beautiful and but one question from me. Many would know his name and rightly celebrated the remarkable polish career as that was unfolding 1942 and in such an incredible job bringing that to the allies. And rightly celebrated in the United States and is a wellknown name. We now have many reasons why his name is not wellknown because of the suppression during communism but i am wondering why since the material has been widely available why is it were waiting until now to talk about this remarkable man . This is through speculation the history of research at the cm they have a really Good Research department. My sense is a little bit with an enormous amount of emphasis on the Research Department on resistance in the camp in the 1970s and eighties. And in some ways many publications appear he was person on a non granada so the emphasis on resistance in the communist era the Research Enterprise which is still at the core of Research Done on auschwitz and we always want to research the problem that coming into the late 19 nineties where polanski becomes more known and now that leads to the museum but in some ways the Research Focused on auschwitz and it shifted. I think in some way the discovery of activities came to the and natural flow and what material they were working on. It doesnt mean the research, the new focus on their work and with that have and flow in the whole history of the holocaust where we are looking at Different Things than from 20 years ago nowadays with gender studies are very much that we realize there is a certain moment in the 19 nineties after 40 years in the history of auschwitz people started to realize they didnt look at women in auschwitz. Sweat a certain moment it takes time for that Research Focus to become the chair for the work to be done