Transcripts For CSPAN2 Alicia Garza The Purpose Of Power 20240712

Thank you for joining us all tonight. For ideas and action with alicia garza and Chris Jackson. Im negations wreck of a color change, the countrys Largest Online Racial Justice organization and appeared introduced nights event. We are partnering with one world to make a virtual space for critical conversation between editor in chief of one world Chris Jackson one of our most powerful organizers and visionaries alicia garza. In 2014 alecia wrote a Facebook Post that change the war and create a movement. It read like people i love you. I love us. Our allies matter. Black lives matter that moment continues today. Tonight alicia and chris will discuss the importance of resistance in resurgence and how they ground the work any vision for collective humanity. I call the change we believe that everyday people are powerful enough to in the practices that are Holding Black people back and harming our country. We Champion Solutions that move us all forward. In the last two weeks we have helped 6. 5 billion people take action for Racial Justice in our country and we are thrilled to be partnering with one world for this important conversation. Without further ado here is Chris Jackson, one world editor and chief to kick us off. Thank you so much for being here with us tonight. I can imagine someone i i would rather be talking to tonight than alicia garza, one of our countries most powerful and influential activist and some who can speak well to this moment. Before we start of what you think color of change for which with us again on this project tonight, and to all the people at penn random house have been so active in getting this all organized. I would like for us to take a short moment of silence for the many tens of thousands of people who we have lost in this pandemic that we are undergoing come people have been disproportionately black and disproportionally brown, native, disabled, elderly and poor and also for all those that weve lost to racially motivated violence, particularly racially motivated violence in the name of the state. Im going to call it three names tonight, ahmed arboretum, Breonna Taylor and george floyd. Join you for a short moment of silence to begin. [silence] and now id like to invite to our virtual stage alicia garza. Hey. Hey. So good to see you. Really good to see you and its good to be seen. So i want to start a conversation out by going back a little bit. I think of moments like this as being, for a lot of people obviously very upsetting and jarring to us but also i think for a lot of people moments awakening. I think about in my own life growing up in new york in harlem in the 70s and 80s, own political consciousness developed most rapidly around some of the most dramatic moments of that, of that comingofage. Normally having to do with proximity of death. There were so many people who were murdered during that time in my neighborhood would also so many people who were lost to Police Violence and those with a first times i was out on the street to protest those deaths. Can you tell us about, i know we worked on this book together for sometime now and so i know so much about your own story one of the interesting things you have always been someone whos been driven towards activism practically from childhood, but there were these Inflection Points like the murder of oscar grant in oakland that really drove an accelerated your commitment. Definitely. I mean for me i actually came up in the Reproductive Justice Movement and got really politicized around the idea that young people, right, could make good decisions about what to do with our bodies. This was a time when bush number one and others were really pushing this narrative in this country around not only like a focus on the family narrative but it was very much about controlling womens bodies. For me, my mother had me and she didnt expect to have the alone. The thing that gave her options is that she had them. She used to talk to me coming up as a young kid and she would tell me, sex makes babies and babies are expensive. I didnt keep any of the birds and bees talk. I didnt get any of that. Its really when i was in college about to be frank i got politicized around Racial Justice. At that time in the late 1990s, early 2000s there was a lot happening in terms of the aftermath of uprisings that shape our entire country. We all watched as rodney king was brutally beaten on video cameras which are not actually popular at that time. And then of course if you fastforward, you fastforward to oscar grant in my community which was just a few blocks from my home. I remember coming home after a new years celebration and turning on the television after midnight and seeing that just three blocks from a house oscar grant had been shot in front of a train full of observers. It just so happen that a young person who was interning at an organization that i worked at was one of the people who caught the entire thing on camera and it actually became a part of the movie. Are these Inflection Points, youre right, when we start to understand that our lives are bigoted as but we also understand that our lives are being shaped by people other than us. We have an opportunity to decide if we think that is right that if we think that is fair, if we think that the ways our lives are being shaped weve is towards wellness and dignity, humanity and wholeness, or whether the ways that our lives are being shaped our leading us towards punishment and criminalization and injustice. And each one of those Inflection Point we get to make a choice about who were going to be. For me at a very young age at 12 years old i decided im going to be somebody who not only tells different stories about one young people are doing. No, teenager not running about having sex like crazy, but there are those of us who are in intimate relationships youre trying to figure out whats best for us and we are being denied the information and resources that we need to make decisions that work for us that we are being denied access that we deserve to desire and pleasure and intimacy by somebody who frankly has a whole different agenda about our bodies and our allies. Do we think thats right or do we think that is wrong . If we think that is wrong what are we going to do about it works for me i got politicized an active in the movement. For others people might shake their head and say, commission of a shame that some people to access to what they need and they move on with her life. But then of course make a minimum was like this where you cant move on with your life. Your everyday normal is interrupted by people have decided to take action and even in those moments you get to make a choice about who youre going to be and what youre going to contribute. Thats really interesting. Part of what i think is, i question that comes to me particularly in his home and listening to your story and thinking that your story as i been doing for sometime now and thinking about my own life is they is the seem to go in these moments where there are these eruptions of visible movement activity. You talked about like what happened with oscar grant in the bay area. Of course black lives matter which formed around a series of events going back to Trayvon Martin and ferguson and so forth. And then you we are again. I would just going in a loop or do you feel like with each one of these things were getting closer to something . Its such a good question, chris, and i should say in writing the book i was like army going, going in a loop or moving forward . I will say that i will see the way that i think about and look at history and look at the present and the connection between the two is that we are not going in circles per se where we end up right where we began. If anything i would imagine its like a spiral, where you are moving in a circle, coming back but not coming back to the place that you started from. You in new place and you can look at where you started and assess the gap in between. No, things are not the same now than [inaudible] ss assessor strategies ad require us to frankly keep pushing forward. I know theres a law [inaudible] black lives matter. People were saying all lives matter and that was the [inaudible] can you hang on one second, alicia . Alicia, can you hear me . One second. Can you hold on . Were having a little bit of a technical difficulty with your can you repeat the last thing you said once again . Thank you. Sure, totally. I wish you saying that in 2013 and 2014 we were pariahs in terms of politics. People would say, we would say black lives matter and people would say all lives matter and those most common response. We were not seen as a legitimate political force. We were not seen as as a movem. We were seen as people who were radicals. Even in her own communities we received as people who were trying to move a gay agenda and interrupt a black agenda, right . Lots of ways in which we are in such a different place than we were then. What do you think im sorry. Go ahead. There is still work to be done. I do want to paint a rosy picture here. Frankly, we are so watching the extrajudicial murders of black people on television because we capture them on cell phone cameras. It is only when there is an outcry that there is any semblance of political will to address it. Were going in a circular pattern in relationship to how we conceive of how we solve this problem once and for all. I do worry that just like in 2014 we cut by the cameras as a result of protests that ferguson leaders are led in relationship to the murder of mike brown. Maybe today what we get is better training or nicer police. But fundamentally theyre still a big challenge that were facing, which is what do we do about the role of Law Enforcement in our communities . Is it enough to have better training or to restrict their practices . Or do we need to narrow the focus and the role of Law Enforcement in the first place . Its an important conversation for america to have right now. For some its an uncomfortable one but i can say seven years ago black lives matter make people uncomfortable, and being uncomfortable is actually good for this country. People were uncomfortable when black people were fighting for the right to be enfranchised. People were uncomfortable when women were fighting for the right to be enfranchised. Look where we have come, right now is starting comfortable to believe that women should have the right to vote. Its not uncomfortable for us to believe that black people should have the right to vote. Does it mean that those rights are not still under attack with absolutely not, but it needs we are in a different place because we have those rights and we are defending them as opposed to needing to create those rights. History is not secure in that way. It is a spiral and i believe really deeply and profoundly that we are closer than we have been before, and that gives me help. That is an encouraging thought. You have this thing in the book where you talk about, you reference a lot this theory about changing common sense, that being the core of a revolution is when you change common sense, the basic premise in society operates from and you can grow something new. Reading today about the Minneapolis Police department or the city council in minneapolis talking about literally like eliminating the police and rebuilding something in its place, which was unimaginable that the major city would be talking about that. Does that kind of thing give you a sense of possibility of what might . Absolutely. I woke up and i saw the article the first thing a bit when it opened my eyes this morning. All i. T. Think of myself is what a time to be alive. The fact that the Minneapolis City Council is not only considering redistributing funds so that we dont address needs that communities have with police for not equipped to address those needs, is incredible and its a conversation that organizes and advocates have been pushing to the better part of 20 years. I can tell you what a a time te alive. I can also say i keep saying things like, you know, the School District in minneapolis saying that their ending their contract with police. What that means for a decade at having police in schools and how to say when not going to do that is very, very powerful. Similarly in los angeles they are moving some of the same proposals. We should remember that when we see things like this it is the result of organizing. It is the result of the pressure that protests build on people to have the political will and the courage to examine new ways of operating. And that is fundamentally what movements can accomplish, and we shouldnt expect that every movement has a strategy on a blueprint that they can hand to you and you can plug into. So much of what movements do is respond to changing conditions, takes the pulse of what communities long for but also what communities are scared of and push the envelope to get closer to what it is that we deserve. We are watching this in real time and its fundamentally incredible, and we must, must, must give most credit to the bad ass organizers in the city would really help to create the conditions to make this happen fn have engaged us to work with them to amplify it. Thats just really a blessing. And so thats a lot of i think what, i mean, i feel like you to offer particularly in your book but also in a model of your life. Is this question of how do you, the original title of your book i think with Something Like how a hashtag became a movement. How was he can take something from being this germ of an idea as it was in 2014 and then of course like to sit 20 years before that people been working towards this kind of reform, how do you keep the pressure on . How do you build from being like a kind of moment to being a movement . Bears a science well, there is a science and an art. From the time when we created the black lives Matter Network which started from a series of social media platforms and grew into a network with chapters all over the world, we didnt have a roadmap. We really relied on instinct and we relied on relationships. We paid attention to is going on and moving in the world. I hope that doesnt feel for sound amorphous but thats literally the secret sauce is who you are in relationship to, what theyre working on it and what you are working on. Also frankly what time it is in the country, right . And your willingness to keep pushing things for. We tried so many things. We held a Conference Call, National Conference calls for people to talk about issues that were of interest for that moment. Our first gathering frankly was a Conference Call that we put together after the killer of mcbride was convicted of murder. We all know in case of vigilante murder and also cases of Police Murder that oftentimes the aggressors are not held accountable. In this particular case he was healthy cattle and he currently sits in jail. That was a victory that was result of organizing. Dream will be mad at me but i will say it anyway. Dream hampton is not only a bad ass organizer, a bad ass writer but also an organizer. She worked with people in michigan to make sure that her death would not go unaccountable for. After that we held a conversation because frankly so much of us come so many of us believe that justice comes from people going to jail. While that might make us feel better, make us feel like they are fitting that we are feeling, the fact of the matter is present and jails are terrible places to be. Prisons and jails cannot rehabilitate people. They cannot bring lies back. They did not address harm. So we held a National Conference call as black lives matter about whether or not ted way for being convicted was justice. We had people in all different sides of the spectrum giving their feedback and input, and those with the types of spaces we really try to create. And from that think we start to build a reputation of creating spaces for people to connect not only online but then moving into 2014 when mike brown was killed, patrisse and darnell had a great idea to organize a freedom ride to ferguson. Another way for people to connect directly to what is happening on the ground. Not only was it intended for people to be able to connect and offer support, but it was also a strategic aspect to it. Frankly, one of the things we heard a lot was that Mainstream Media was telling their own story of what was happening in ferguson. They were telling stories of looters and rioters and unrest and all the images you would see on tv were of tanks and rubber bullets and tear gas. So we organized black immediate to go to ferguson and to be able to tell that story from a black perspective, which made a difference in terms of how the story began to be told from that point forward. Without getting too far into the ferguson conversation because ferguson leaders need to tell the story so i am winking and nodding at you, that might be the next book for one world, but i will say that we let ferguson and didnt think were going to go back but the people who came said they want to keep organizing, and actually forced us to form chapters. We would like we are not prepared for this. They are like, but we are. So you all have already run your mouth. You created this umbrella, so lets go. I just want that story out to say that theres no recipe here. Its really about instinct. Its a Network Tickets about tiny and, frankly, its about being able to move when you just know its right. One of the things that are so beautiful about the way you talk about movements, in the book, not to plug the book again but in the book you do talk about this speedy thats okay. You know, for you, activism was fundamentally a way to connect to other people which i thought was like a beautiful way to begin the story. Its not about some big abstract Political Goals necessary. This is how we connect and we can start to share a vision for the world we want to bring into being. That connection cant just happen online although we are obviously doing a lot of connect online right now. What interesting is its not online the movement is happening now. Even under the cloud of this pandemic people to like me to go in the street and see each other and to be with each other in march together. What is the special sauce of connection . That includes like youve done in your life like knock on doors, in peoples homes, touch them, like here didnt come sit with them, listen to them. How does that make a bit different as opposed to just, its not to dismiss what we can do online are what we can do through social media, but what is that human component, why s it so important . You know, everybody longs for connection. That is what makes us human, literally. We cant live in isolation and, in fact, when you put people in isolation you actually see folks deteriorate. When you hear stories the people or in solitary confinement they tell you that literally they start to deteriorate because we as human beings depend on connections to survive. It is how we read the world tickets out we read one another. Making sense of this moment, organize is fundamentally rooted in connection, and when i was being trained as an organizer i was always told that organizing wasnt about getting somebody to get involved in your campaign. It wasnt about getting somebody to use her slogan. It was fundamentally about relationships, and everything moves at the speed of relationship. Ill give you an example. When i was coming up in organizing, the only way i could get people to do something that was outside of their comfort zone was to spend many hours on the front porch, at their kids recitals, you know, leading her friends at Kitchen Table while there were making dinner after a long day of work. People need to know that they can trust you. And, frankly, when we look at all the great movements throughout history we noticed a similar response. We will look at the last period of civil rights, people move at the speed of relationships and that was both for connection but also for safety. In certain environments if people didnt know who your people were, they didnt mess with you. And i can tell you, my southern relatives are still the same way. They are like, yeah, but like you are your people . Where do you come from . Its way for us to make sense of who you are but also what your motives are. Moving into this moment, i think you saw people rush out of their homes in the midst of a Global Pandemic because the isolated in your house while youre watching on Television Come somebody who looks like you being brutally murdered, while the officer looks into the camera while he is doing it, it makes you feel so incredibly alone and fearful and hopeless. And so why people pour into the streets is to be connected to the energy of other people who are sharing a similar experience. Every one of us who has experienced injustice in the world wonders if its only us or if other people have had that experience, too. And movements fundamentally bring together people who long for not feeling gas lit about the experiences that they have every day, that they know are wrong but they cant quite place why or who is responsible. And movements also give us an opportunity, a way to challenge and channel the anger, the isolation, that fear and the rage into something productive. Sometimes it becomes a law or a policy. Other times it becomes an ecosystem of organizations that are fighting back against the injustices and ways in which our communities are disenfranchised. So when you look at organizations like the movement for black lives, you will see that this is a beautiful, rich ecosystem of black organizations that are working together and independently to impact the lives of black people. And in that coalition we suddenly again feel less alone, less helpless, and we feel more powerful. When we feel powerful we take risks that wouldnt necessarily take a loan. But the very nucleus of being able to go from why is this happening to me too, im willing to be some of the changes it, fundamentally requires connections and relationships. So interesting. And it feels so true. I was out at a march yesterday and sort of watching whats going on like from a distance, very different from being in the middle of it and feeling that energy. Even the people would hang out over the stoops and claim their pots, you feel like youre not alone and that is the beginning of i think that since what you said like feeling like theres some real power in this, its not just my feeling. Its a feeling and we can do something with this feeling. Its powerful. That brings me to my next question is how do we do something with that feeling. First of all, going back to your Renisha Mcbride store, youll have to consider what does justice look like in this case . What does accountability look like right now for the people who are obviously immediately responsible for these deaths . Weve seen in some these cases but it hasnt even happened, like the level of accountability hasnt happen. But in a larger sense, larger sort of structures that we need to make accountable for this. How do we go from this moment to that level to that reckoning with the people who have the power . Im going to give a deeply unsatisfying answer, which is stay in the fight. We are in this moment where we have so much anguish that we want the pain to stop now. The fact of the matter is these systems that we are fighting are as old as this country, and they will take a while to undo. There are times when we can speed up the progress of the project, and there are times when the progress of that project really requires a methodical approach to changing what is possible politically. And you need to be able to do that in a range of ways. I could see to right now and tell you theres policies that we can enact right now that will stop police for me able to use choke holds or make it illegal for police to put their knee on somebodys neck as a way to restrain them. I could tell you theres things we could do to train police to be nice to police, but i wouldnt be honest with you if i didnt say that maybe places already have those policies in place that they have no one to enforce them. We get i get into this cyclical pattern of what i think is sometimes trying to find the shortest distance from a to b. Rather than, or in addition to, let me say, because i dont think they are contradiction. We should do stuff down to stop the bleeding for sure, but if im trying to stop the bleeding and i have also broken several bones, i can put a cast on but it doesnt mean that the bone, it doesnt mean the bone has sealed and is going to take a while for the dont youll. I might need to take a different approach for the bone to heal versus dealing with the cut on my finger. In this case when it comes to policing i just have to be honest, like the reason that things are so bad in policing is because we asked police to do things they shouldnt be doing. We are asking police to be Domestic Violence counselors if we are asking police to be therapist. We are asking police to deal with people or in crisis in terms of the Mental Health and police are not trained to do that. And, in fact, sure, we could spend a bunch of Time Training people with badges and guns to be able to respond differently to that, and maybe we should, but we also people whose actual profession it is to do that work, and the reason that we dont have enough of those people in our community is that because we dont have enough trained people. Its actually because we have had government that has whittled away that safety net. We have had government that has whittled away that infrastructure and our communities and they have replaced it with control and surveillance which ends up exacerbating the problem. If you actually limit what police do in our communities and how often they come into contact with our people and for what, that is actually the key to saving more lives. As long as you also invest on the other side in making sure that there is a robust set of resources that people can access, that it wont be criminalized for accessing but also where you dont have the option for for a mistake of trg to deal with a Mental Health crisis and you shoot someone. Therapists dont carry guns. The other tools that the use and so we need to make sure that that infrastructure is really robust in our communities it we need to make sure that it we could be calling police for things like petty shoplifting or we could also be dealing with whats underneath that which is that somebody doesnt have what they need. And so for me when i hear people go, we cant just get rid of fleas, im like sure sure i get where you are struggling and this places where i struggle about this, too. But i want change as much as you do and i want us to believe that we deserve better than tinkering. We did buy the cameras, right . We have done commissions and task forces and blue ribbon panels. At the end of the day we have the answers, but do we have the courage, right, the courage to say actually we are going to restore the role of government in our communities . We are going to enfranchise communities to be a part of the solution and we are also going to limit the ways in which we punish people for not having the things that they need because we have created a society we are not everybody can have the things they need to live well. Thats what i think we can be doing in this moment. One of the interesting things thats been popping up in the news over the last few days as people are starting think about what our police . I think its odd because weve had police forever, and yet now for the first time people are starting to wonder, what is this institution . And they are starting to look at the budgets for police and they are astonishing. Like billiondollar budgets in los angeles and new york. Even in a in a place like minns they had enormous, millions and millions of dollars devoted to policing the white population barely interacts with. It makes you wonder what are we paying for if perhaps like an Occupying Army in certain neighborhoods . I want to quickly safe will do a q a in a minute your questions theres a q a button down there and you can ask them. I feel like you are talking a lot about what we are sometimes use the second person can you said you can do, about some of these things. That brings me to this question of, because its hard to remember a thing thats happened in 2020 2024 is because thereo much that we have an election coming up in 2020. Being an oped that Stacey Abrams wrote in the New York Times of morning saying voting feels inadequate in our darkest moment and ended by saying silence will surely dam is all. What role do you think electoral politics has in the matrix of what it will take to get to the point of accountability . You know, i am somebody who believes that electoral politics is harm reduction. The lessons help us choose the terrain we want to fight on and they help us choose the people that we want to fight. And i never expect that a candidate that i support in very few cases is a candidate that i support, somebody i want to have over for dinner or like , build a deep relationship with but i do need them to do things for me and for my community and i believe that the process of making elected officials accountable to the people they represent is fundamentally important for the future of thisdemocracy. Thats why i spend my time these days, at least as of a few weeks ago spending a majority of my time taking about how to make black communities powerful in politics, through my work at the black future club black to the future action fund. We spent a lot of time over the last few years listening deeply to black communities acrossthe nation. We did the Largest Survey of black people in america in 155 years. Literally slavery was abolished in this country is our time listening to the experiences people are having in the economy, our democracy and our society getting ourselves clearer about what needs that need to be addressed from the mouse our own people and how we translate that into a fight for power in the electoral arena . Because the fact of the matter is black people want what everybody wants. We want safety, we dignity, we want to be treated as fully human and we want to have our needs met and there are so Many Americans who want the same thing and for various reasons cant access that but in order for us to be the kind of force that changes the balance of power in this country, we have to be able to see ourselves as connected and elections and electoral politics is one way we can do that. I also know that when it comes to elections and black communities so often we are used as symbols rather than substance. And whether its politicians showing up on ourdoorsteps in october when the election is in november , whether its the concerts that we get rather than the town halls that are discussing policies, to change the rules that are rigged in our communities, whether its the Fried Chicken that makes mysteriously shows up every time black folks need to get engaged. All of these ways in which frankly racism is deeply entrenched in our electoral system as well so our work with the lab and action fund is really not just centered around collecting data using that data in theservice of building power. For example chris we have a program were running called black to the ballot where we created a black agenda for 2020 from the results of the Largest Survey of black people in america. These are the things that across gender, across income, across ideology that black people can agree on in terms of solutions and where using that to motivate our communities to register to vote and to turn out and we have a hunch that if we dont focus so much on candidates but instead focus on what we need and forcing candidates to adjust to things that we need that maybe, right, maybe participation will be greater and larger and more robust as we are united around not just talking points like rebuild the middle class or lift every voice or whatever nonsense is out today and yes i said it, but instead we are united around the rules that we want shifted and how we want to change those rules and if then we have a way to determine whos with us and whos against us. If the people who we elect dont choose to move our agenda forward and we find elected officials who will or we become them ourselves. Thats the way i look at politics. Thats how i look at electoral organizing thats an important point and this is one of thethings that excites me about your work and your book. It talks about politics as i said a form of connection between people which i think is inarguably something we all want. Its fundamental to our species the desire to connect with other people but its also work that can be voidable and creative and imaginative. Thinking about new worlds and one of the reasons people turn away from politics as they feel like its just the grim work of reinforcing the status quo and i think again these moments of awakening are potentially moments when you can build, you can fill that gap with imagination and say this is what we canbe. I love this idea of getting people to say what are the things that are important to them and you can actually use your vote to get closer not just to forestalling disaster , thats part of it but its also to start to bring into being the world that you want. Do you think that we need to get a Different Group of people like actually into running for office and at that level not just boating but being involved in the electoral system in that way. Hundred percent. Ive been so energized by some of the folks that we have elected who really engaged in politics in a very transformative way to whether its a oc or whether its our sister ion oppressively or whether its people like Elizabeth Warren who probably never saw themselves as somebody who would be a senator who worked to make any quality go away and realized that there are people who are this defending riggedrules every single day. And can throw rocks at the capital as much as we want or we can evade it. People like rashida tommy, people like my congressman barbara lee was been in politics for i want to ageher like that but forever. And got her start actually through was meant toward by Shirley Chisholm Everybody Knows says bring your folding chair tothe table. So i just, i dont want people to take away from this that the only path to power is to become an elected official. Not all of us are cut out for every role but i do think its important that if we want to change the way that democracy functions that we actually would people in that democracy can model what that looks like. Can model Accountable Leadership with integrity. That can model what it means to have a radical vision but also know how to get things done. And i think we need many more aocs, many more recipes. We need many more squads, many more ill hans, many more people who are not afraid to say the way that this country isset up his rate. And we have the power to change the rules but do we have the courage do we have to will and then they show us how todo that. So i think that ive been asked 1 million times to run. I dont think thats really my jam. I think im better in this role but i also encourage people to run and i hope to groom people on how to run and i believe that our people can be powerful inside of virus and the city hall across the nation. I also think people can be powerful in our communities and those are not mutually exclusive class i think thats really a beautiful thought. About what politics could potentially be. I have one more question im going to ask and then bring some questions from our audience. We have quite a few filling in. So one of the things that i think is really special about i think your vision as you sort of laid it out is that theres a kind of discipline of inclusiveness by that i find in the way that you talk about movements and talk about political change area you talk a lot about the necessity of Multiracial Movements. But you also talk about how at the heart of them, all these movements they there needs to be a particular concern for black liberation. As well as wholly devoted to black liberation or black people can Work Together for that purpose but also places where we can all come together and of course working with these you have Domestic Workers, thats a true Multiracial Group that has come together to create real change to some of those vulnerable workers in the country. Immigrants and the black people and from all over the world. And so i was curious what you would say about that sort of tension between meeting those racial movements and also centering the need for black liberation and why it is you think those two things and go together. Thats a good question that it gives me the opportunity to talk about my squad at the Domestic Workers alliance. Let me start off by saying that if we understand antiblackness as the fulcrum around which expressly operates. And we have a better understanding of why we need Multiracial Movements but why we also need black liberation movements. By those movements need to be in relationship and in coordination and they also need to be resourced and invested inequally. So when you look at the history of Domestic Work for example, Domestic Work is in the legacy of slavery is the work that was predominantly by black women and black women who were enslaved area so when you look at the conditions of Domestic Work and Domestic Work sometimes is the term people dont understand though Domestic Work is literally work inside the home. Its helping to take care of a family, helping to take care of children, helping to maintain ahousehold. Helping to support and care for aging loved ones or helping to support the independence of people with disabilities. These are folks who work inside thehome to add additional capacity. To a family. And that work used to be as i said black womens work and it the conditions of the industry today are very much shaped by the conditions that shape the industry under slavery. You know, low pay, low wages and no contract or agreement, no benefit. Note sick days off, notime with your family. Very loose rules or any rules at all. And i will say that we see those same conditionstoday. And if we werent investing in undoing the vestiges of dynamics that come out under slavery and were directed towardsblack people. Then we dont actually have a shot at changing the conditions that exist in the industry today. I can tell you that most Domestic Workers are not covered under many federal labor protections. Same thing with Agricultural Workers and the reason is because there was a race race is compromised and excluded Agricultural Workers, exploded Domestic Workers who were largely black and brown. From access to the things that most workers have access to now. Those exclusions that racist exclusions to continue today. And so if we are not dealing with the unique conditions under which our communities are attacked, the unique conditions underwhich our communities are disenfranchised , then we dont give ourselves enough leeway around the potential of what we can build. And having been an organizer in Multiracial Movements for a long time i can tell you i often feel alone and isolated in those movements because black folks while there may be smattering of us, there arent really legions of us. In Multiracial Movements and ive always asked myself why is that . One of the answers that ive come to is that sometimes what we do in an attempt to build Multiracial Coalition or alliance is we tried to flatten everybodys experiences as the same. Theyre not the same area we can walk around until were blue in the face and say were all human of the fact of the matter is some of us are able to access amenity in a very different way than others. And if our movements cant address that you cant hope to bring people to them. So we just have to be honest about that. But also, i believe that we need Multiracial Movements in this country to live. And what im seeing across the nation is making my heart left and sing every day because its not just black folks out there in the streets, theres a lot of white folks and a lot of folks are latin contacts, a lot of people identified from theasian diaspora and on and on. And i want us to strengthen that. And then i remember too that part of what it means to strengthen Multiracial Movements is to make sure that all of us have the infrastructure that we needto be able to fight back. And one of the consequences after the last period of civil rights and certainly the period of black power is that our Community Power infrastructure was intentionally estimated. In part by the government that was really intense on dismantling a very successful black Power Movement was also Getting Energy and excitement and participation multiracial he. Theres folks who will tell you i was part of the panthers. Theres whitefolks that will tell you i was down with the panthers. We have government sponsored programs that were intentionally designed to dismantle thatlevel of unity and while they did it , they also dismantled the infrastructure that black communities had built to be powerful and so we cant as black folks actually contribute to a Multiracial Movement if we ourselves are not organized. If we ourselves have not built the kind of infrastructure we need not just for ourselves but to be able to contribute to the larger project of structural change. So for me i fundamentally believe that there is a science to building Multiracial Movements and some of it is about understanding how antiblackness functions within thosemovements. Some of it is about being careful about trying to flatten everyone into sameness rather than examining differences and how those differences are actually strategic to the project were trying to dismantle. And really how those movements can create a new model for how we see each other in our wholeness. Multiracial movementscannot be colorblind. We cannot do that thing where we say i dont care if youre blue, green, purple, white or black. There are no purple people as far as i know. No greenpeople. But also i want you to see all of me. I want you to see me andsee me the way i want to be seen and the way i want to be seen is as a beautiful , courageous black person who loves the skin that im in and has done a lot of work to get there so rather than saying im standing with you and by standing with you im notseeing you , tell me that you see me and that your joined with me that youre committed to helping other people see me and helping you be seen. In the ways that we determine for ourselves. That is the most fundamental component of what it means to us to build movements across. That is beautiful. Im going to turn out to some of the questions youre getting from our audiences, particularly answer that question by the way area because it was a mix of people and it was very exciting to see. I found myself excited to see that it was a mix of people who were all campaigning together, black lives matter. I think what youre describing about understanding that so much so many of these impressions were dealing with rrated and antiblackness. And that you dont deal with antiblackness, its hard to deal with any of these rating issues but you identify that area you actually have acheck. And to see people understanding that finally, sort of is exciting. Okay, so heres some questions. Lets see here. This is interesting, what advice would you have and you may not have any read some of these are not questions that youre not necessarily, okay. I think this is an interesting question, people who have police and their family and or even police themselves. If theres something to say now, and another person talked about the kneeling at some police are doing at events and some people finding that to be a little bit almost like a strange reenactment of the things that were protesting. And maybe and of course, having with a very small number. Anyway, what do you think about, is there a redemptive move that a policeman or a woman can be in . You were asking that question and i was actually thinking about you know, how lots of black people have police in our families. And you know, the experience of policing and being in relationships with police and i think is really fascinating. I see, i hear this from what folks a lot, what if i, my uncle is a police officer, my dad generations of my family have been police officers. And im like i get it and im just harkening back to the notion that for black folks weve dealt with this tension for a long time area Law Enforcement in ourfamilies and even they know. Even the members of Law Enforcement in black families know yes, there is a problem here. And different people have different ways of making sense of it. But i dont think that this is such a contradiction. And i think that what, when it rises to the level of becoming a contradiction, its when we defend the perception and the role that it plays. Because our relationship is so deep to the person in the profession. We need to be very clear that you know, when we say the fund police we dont mean your dad doesnt matter. To say that policing is a profession, its not, its a profession and wheni hear things like Blue Lives Matter , i do id like strange. Look, if thats something that you choose to do. Being black is a way that we are born area so there are already starting from very different fundamental places. But let me also say this. And people might be surprised to hear me say this again, i have been in this game for a long time and illtell you , when you talk to Law Enforcement and you really have a conversation like not a conversation thats what do you hate the police or do you love the police but like a conversation about what its like to do the job. Lots of people will tell you i got into this profession because i wanted to help people. Ive met very few people who are in Law Enforcement say i got into thisprofession because i want to mess people up. People come into it because theyve learned that police and for our protagonists in our communities and we Learned Police are a way to solve problems and people come to the profession because they want to be a part of solving problems that they see in their community. They want to be a part of protecting people and making people feel safe against threats that they mayperceive in their communities. Here something that happens. Most of the time, when i talk to people in a Law Enforcement say i got into the profession because i wanted to help and then i quickly began to get frustrated at my lack of ability to doso. Actually im getting called to a Domestic Violence situation and knowing that as i take away one person and also impacting a family that has no resources to rebuild. And actually it doesnt make me feel like a hero. When i see something on the street having a Mental Health crisis knowing that theres no shelter to bring them to, theres no program to bring them to and the only place i can take them is jail but thats probably the worst possible place for them. It really erodes that sense of effectiveness and can entrench a sense of battle. And fighting a war. And that gets peoples perception of the role that theyre playingin a community. Most Law Enforcement officers that i have talked to will tell you i wish that those things were not my role. I wish that we were able to address the needs that people actually have and frankly i dont think we should do that. And people will talk about law and talk about order area and its very complicated but i wonder. If theres also a place for connection there. Im somebody who fundamentally believes that policing is not the wayto solve problems. And that doesnt mean i dont like your grandpa where your uncle or your mother. And ive got Law Enforcement members in my family to like many black people do and even myfamily member , understands as well what im saying and what were doing across this country. They also want tosee the profession get better. And i dont know if theres ever going to be in alignment there because thereis such deep hurt and pain. I know lots of people who do the work to bring that alignment together and they are good people, honestly its hard to do systems change work and with that being said, with the solidarity shows that you talk about, i want something more. I think that we deserve more than Police Taking a knee. I really do. And i heard that in some cities yesterday there were Police Taking a knee and then an hour later they were arresting people and shooting people withrubber bullets. This constant dissonance is part of why the trauma continues. And its not that the people behind the shield are good people or bad people. Thats not the point. The point is it their job is to control and to contain and now were also giving them the responsibility of solving problems that they cannot solve. And that is always going to create a kind of situation where theres a powder can and a match thats waiting to be lit. And so im for symbolism. But im also for substance. And i would just compare folks taking a knee to the thing that the police union had said 2 days ago in minneapolis where he said ive been involved in three murders and i never lostsleep over any of them. So i think one really important way to get involved is with Law Enforcement, to curtail the scope and scale of theunion. I know in my city are police union and the leader of the police union in particular is a constant source of racist diatribe and dialogue in response to the brief, hurt, loss and pain and as long as we have that dynamic, it will only land as symbolic when police take any. I got asked literally last weekend because there was all this blah about who was joining the protests and all the chaos in the protests and suddenly im being asked should we be telling protesters to work with police to identify bad protesters . Im like weve lost focus year. Now, number no, what we need to be talking about is how do we keep from getting to a place where people have to take the streets in a Global Public Health Pandemic just to assert that our lives matter. That is the most important thing for us to address in this moment. All of the other like symbols and shows are just going to remain close unless we get to but the core of what is putting america in so much anguish right now. Its a good answer and i think its a fair one. Life, these areall people who are part of the community. Yes, im sorry. I hear you now. One last question. I think this is not something were going to talk a lot about tonight but its a relevantthing. We are in the middle of a global Health Pandemic and also this period of isolation which has been the cause of lots of depression and economic dislocation which we know, near depression, convictions and job loss. And now this. And how are you for instance like taking care of yourself within this. Yes. Ill tell you my selfcare this week has notbeen great. But thats how this goes. In terms of the pandemic, from the beginning of march all the way up until a week ago i was riding my bike four times a week, 45 minutes a day religiously and that was my way of moving through the stress and anxiety of what it means to be told that not only do you need to stay home but you need to limit or not be in contact with people outside your home. Which takes a toll on you because again remember, connection is at the heart of everything. And then a week ago. You know, all kinds of stuff broke loose and frankly, my days a little last week have been 13 hours straight on the telephone in meetings, trying to get people to do things or trying to get people to stop doing things. And im giving advice to people about what they can do right now even though theres so much stuff out there. And im trying to make sure that im Drinking Water and that i eat more than one thing a day. So on monday i was doing awful. I was crispy as i say. I was just like dont mess with me today and then i watched the president teargas people to take a photo with a bible upside down at the church hes never attended area and the symbolism but also the substance of the symbol literally broke me. As if its not enough to be dealing with a public Health Crisis and the ongoing slaughter of black people. This country is now sliding into fascism in a way that terrifies me and i dont use that word or phrase lightly. But then i started to see people continue to resist and for that resistance to grow. And that makes me feel like we really are the majority. We really are the majority. Our values are majoritarian values and we can win. We can win. So im, thats where im at now and thats actually whats taking care of me is seeing the progress. Allowing myself to see whats changing, what victories are happening and also letting people take care of me. So my partner makes sure that i stick food in my mouth in between sentences on Conference Call and that my water glass is always filled and that i get the rant and rave for a good hour after i shut everything down and then i get to be quiet and its glorious so that time caring for myself right now. Thats a wonderful way to end, take care of yourself by watching us a little bit. Thank you so much alicia, i could have talked to you for another twohours. Clearly gotten to my question but its okay, will do this again sometime thank you so much and get some water. Thank you everyone. President trump traveled to kenosha wisconsin to participate in the discussion about Community Safety following civil unrest after another Police Shooting of a black man. Will have the discussion live 2 30 p. M. Eastern on cspan2. A look at, as he departed forwisconsin today. Weeknights this month we are featuring book tv programs as a preview of whats available everyweekend on cspan2. Wednesday, beginning at 8 00 eastern dd features several programs the late author and columnist William F Buckley junior enjoyed book tv on cspan2. Welcome to the manhattan institutes