Then to support the two authors as well as a bookstore click the button but with that you can take the screen. Hi. Welcome. Im tony words it is my pleasure to moderate tonight with my two friends jordan and chris. With the liberal and conservative tried to drive across the country. Thats the heart at the book union. Jordan was a businessman and a democratic speechwriter from berkeley and then they quickly became friends in law school but couldnt stop arguing about politics and in 2016 it became more so they decided to take a road trip across america to see different perspectives. And how that friendship changed and those lessons that they learned women we hope for a Better Future and better United States welcome to both and say hello to the audience. Hello everyone. Thank you everyone this is exciting thank you for staying up late for this on the east coast. We are happy to do it. Lets dive right in. On the surface its possible to have more similarities than differences what could these guys possibly differ on . So tell us about yourself and what shape so those experiences and why you found yourselves regularly disagreeing. Yes thank you for the question. The truth is we are good friends we are to white guys from california and at a deeper level there are similarities so there is a great friendship so when we first met at Yale Law School we bonded over our love for great literature. Chris wanted to be a journalist. We also talked about how our values were shaped and our character all the things that bound us together but also quickly we had very different worldviews. I grew up in a republican family after 9 11 my mother started a nonprofit sending packages to troops overseas there were differences but those Early Experiences were so formative for us. So it was inevitable. Absolutely. We isolated and in so many facets as was put there is a lot there but we disagree and come from very different political backgrounds that was enough to have the background to write together but also disagree about and if we have too much that was different in terms of the worldviews it would be harder to get a project like this done. I have two people to fact check me ive known him since 19 im from berkeley raised by a mom who is an activist to shut down a College Campus in the seventies. I went to the iraq war protest i grew up reading black panther literature in high school. We came from very different backgrounds with our influences and yes and in 2015 politics didnt seem that prominent so we could build our friendship on these other things not until 2016 it started to feel the friendship was not something socially acceptable and that is when the book and the project took flight. One quick followup we talked about our mothers but while chriss mom is protesting the war we actually had a chance to have our moms meet exactly one year ago. And what i love of bonding and those that have a common sense of love for that individual which is a nice thing. So now it sounds like you have described core differences and with those trips on the road. [laughter] you spent hundreds of hours traveling the country trapped in a car together maybe you could say what you hope to find on the journey. So we met and then it ended up over three hours and then we built a great friendship but as 2016 got closer we talked about politics all the time and the conversation ended with one of us red in the face and all around us people were talking so we both started to pull back from the conversation it never felt like it got anywhere one night we were listening i leaned over and said you want to go on a road trip and that first road trip together we were together for seven days it was a little unnerving that on the road the country is so beautiful there is so much magic to the american highways and National Parks and then we can have a great conversation and we fought hard in the beauty of the car you are stuck so you have to reconcile and then you realize we have the conversation so that we just decided there is so much to do on the road so to schedule some more road trips together. So first of all to your point i did cut my teeth on her arguments from god to how many wins the 40 niners will have next year. So after the first road trip we were so impressed how powerful it is to be on the road the ark the conversation can have from anger to understanding to apology and more anger and continue that cycle so we said lets do it again and see if theres a chance we can get out there and learn something to bring back something important to say. So we ended up going at a trump rally was the start we had no idea what was happening i saw it on my phone the day before i casually said do you want to check out the trump rally . He said absolutely what an opportunity and immediately i regretted the idea but we did it nonetheless and we are both gone away by how we saw the same thing inside or outside the would whisper did you hear that and we interpret that the same way and we were inspired by the activity outside and pulling back from the violence inside. Of amazed the president s ability to move people that nervous on the people on the edge of the rally. The simple fact we can see them through the same set of eyes at that moment made us think we have a voice that we can say together. But because of the street violence that night and the anger and the victory all with the near difference and that was a stories outside of politics. And those bonds that brought us together and then to get the story out. And then to identify values so we spent time with a group of veterans and i gun range with a truck driver who took us from las vegas and there we did all kinds of things that we found exciting from spending a couple days to rehearsing king lear with sound inmates outside of detroit to find stories speaking to a larger purpose of a different value set. I love that. Obviously the book is about your friendship and it captures that but also is enriched of the character he started to speak to i imagine you met hundreds incredible people who told a couple stories so wondering if you could give us a view into the writers process and what jumped out about the stories . Were you hoping to illuminate sharing their perspective . Each story was slightly different in each story spoke to realizations on our part and the country. We spent a lot of time with pete the truck driver we went in intending to tell the story about bluecollar work to be on the road in America Today we could tell that story but what ended up emerging why is how complicated americans can be under the surface he showed up wearing make America Great again sure and my first thought was so much for getting away from politics. The first thing he said was i wish the president talked more about climate change. How god is love and then to support lgbtq marriage. There is more to the country and the people than meets the are. At the same time jordan and i could come together to talk about regulation or corporate control of Truck Driving in the importance of dignity and that was one example and then everybody has the animating values as well is a take away from spending time with these people. One thing was that writing about these people without they were standing for a trend there was no real intention it was just lucky so what ended up happening so we were just trying to share that and share it with others so there are these amazing people but we didnt select them because youre a trump supporter. They were just great people. Thats great. So i would love to start bringing in audience questions. So now i turned to my next question. You use that firstperson narrative describing yourself as representatives of your respective tribes which i thought was interesting. I found it illuminating it made me think why these arguments feel heated because you are no longer representing yourself but the entire movement or community and then it becomes very animated very quickly. Can you take a moment to think of the more prominent voices in those camps like the polarization of the country and then tell us something you discovered on these journeys that thes groups that say youre wrong on the other side. If you are talking to the squad what would you say she doesnt understand about jordan . Absolutely what really struck me and i hate to out to you here but on the road it always felt like jordan and the conservatives he would spend time with do care about progress. Maybe not progressives but they want everyone to have healthcar healthcare. They want everyone to get a good education. They dont like the criminal Justice System as it is today but they approach it differently. And we would often fight until we were blue in the face and we would say i guess we agree. So the idea is if you want the same and then we talk about the means to get there. Thats a take away they are some shared values and we believe in second chances. So criminal justice is very clear knowing jordan quite well i cant say he is pursuing the same values and hopes and dreams im. Thats a powerful starting point. Thank you chris i think that was very well said. I my talk to my friends who are big maga supporters a say he only wines half as much as they think. [laughter] the left or Progressive Left that they will the narrative there always looking to tear it down and spending so much time on the road with chris i learned his perspective and those on the left that in fact they do put those values with those principles that are enshrined in our religion and generally they have a deep concern and empathy so as chris and i talk we often responded to minimize those challenges people are facing to respond to those communities to have a right in the american and tapestry and then it becomes much easier because now we talk about shared value and shared ground thats an easy thing to engage on. Sticking with this theme so maybe i will start with you, jordan what are the criticisms that you hear from the left that you agree with but we shared work on as a party or through political ideology . What are those things especially in this day and age is hard to admit as lifeanddeath struggle . Those things internally that we should do a better job . Yes. Thats a good question. There are specific policy areas. I think the Republican Party and the conservative movement has a really hard time to articulate we want all americans to have healthcare or the best education possible for the Society Everyone has and the reason they cant articulate that must be Government Spending and that comes off as deeply and empathetic to say of course every american should have great healthcare. I wish republicans would get much better. Because that is where we do share. There is a ton of overlap. So you might not agree. Chris, same question and the liberal camp could be better . One that comes to mind largely we talked at length is a more nuanced understanding of tradition. There are a lot of powerful elements of the american tradition that we need to embrace whether the democratic founding ideals the system has designs and there are deep flaws in that system that remained today and made worse over time we do a lot of writing how to wrestle with history but there are a lot of elements that are quite important to hold on to even while we change monuments and names we cant let go of where we come from. Also to hear this message from josh last few years i consider myself the obama liberal listening to the eulogy for john lewis he talks about redeeming the american idea living up to the creed in the original founding whether liberty or freedom more pursuit of happiness and more importantly are losing our ability on the left to talk about the amazing parts of this country alongside the difficult parts. Thats a fair point. The first question from a member of the audience. Have you arranged a similar discussion for members of congress . Are there lessons that you wish you could share with National Leaders or members of congress . They talk about the role the media plays and help to maintain the polarization that is helpful for the national dialogue. Yes the National Leaders when you try to activate the base and find ways to move forward i find it very distressing in the midst of the pandemic over the shared compromise of the narrative. And the two lessons i would offer is chris and i could have these amazing conversations and that i said early in the relationship that this person has values but we had so much built up i knew it would be in good faith and that in turn it just took time but once it dead we had productive conversations and we did have alignment and those disagreements were much smaller than we initially thought the way we talk about those issues were actually pretty close together maybe that means getting groups together every week and then the second thing i would offer is everywhere we went across the country has a deep desire for Common Ground and a better message and we actually found a study that was asking questions about the publics perception of government and issues in American Life it was just one question after another but when you get to the last page it said do you want a leader who can bring the country back together . 94 percent said yes. So my view to politicians is the country once it and they want to bring people together to find Common Ground than that would resonate far more than the polemic messages. Any lessons or advice for the National Leaders or members of congress . Absolutely. First it is the effort to collect stories from outside of bright lights. We talk to people new orleans, portland, south dakot dakota, not so much dc but to give us insight how dc can change. Only one wrinkle to what he said otherwise i completely concur that on top of spending more time together its important we spend different time together. Context is very important i think of the truck driver if i met him at the trump rally we probably couldnt talk we would be yelling are not giving any notice and not conducive to conversation bad at 9 00 oclock p. M. The sun had gone down when the two of us are talking we are farmer able to talk about human things and in the context to find that connective tissue. There is something powerful about that. At least my time in dc i didnt spend any of that intimate time with the other side. And with National Leaders and state leaders there needs to be a context for a quiet setting whether fear or a dinner at someones house it doesnt seem like a grand change to fix politics overnight but losing that is detrimental to the ability to communicate and makes it easier to get in front of the cspan cameras to say whatever you want you dont know who they are away from the bright lights thats a critical part of spending more time together