Investigative reporter covering a story and i was really blown away by the fact when you cover stories were powerful interests are trying to shape them and youre not getting the true picture. We will talk about all that today. Carter can we start with you giving a little brief background about your education. Where you went to school, and very briefly your job experience in career . Guest yes, sherrill, think its much during this today its great to be with you. I grew up in Dutchess County new york. And i received eight nomination into the u. S. Naval academy which i started a week after graduating high school in 1989. And so i completed annapolis and was then commissioned in the u. S. Navy and served the u. S. Navy first as an armscontrol action officer during International Arms control negotiations and the pentagon. And then i moved into michael served on a couple of Surface Warfare ships. A couple navy ships in the atlantic than in the middle eas east. Host dont you have a couple of degrees . Guest i have been sort of a lifelong student. Although i joke around that when i was in annapolis, i dropped out in my junior year. But i have always been studying. Just because i have been working throughout that period, so i studied at night and go to night classes and stuff. So for example when i work at the pentagon i did my masters in National Security at georgetown across in the pentagon. And then while i was a Research Fellow at the Foreign Relations in new york, i did my mba in international business. At new york university. Host its worth mentioning that because if people follow any of your story, they likely heard you are not to in intelligent kind of hapless guy. And when i learned about your great bunch of background and learn more about you, i realize that is a not a clear representation of what you had done. I also think we should certainly be the beginning of this conversation with how you came to work in russia. Because if not for your presence in russia for business, at some point in time, they may not have had what some called an excuse to wiretap you for some would say to get to President Trump. So explain first of all why you were in russia. Some people act like it is so suspicious to go to russia or do business there. And actually many thousands of businesspeople from the United States live and work in russia. Guest it is ironic and awake, sharyl, i am a free market sky. And that was my other degree. I did tha that the university of london in oriental studies looking at affairs and thinking about how, i did a big Research Project on the tensions between capitalist and socialist approaches and different emerging markets in society. And what of the case studies i did, was on russia. My first time into russia was actually during the late soviet period in the summer of 1991. Just a few months before the soviet union, and i was part of the First Exchange program between the u. S. Naval academy and the soviet people as well. Ive been working over there in various capacities. Again as i mentioned when i was an independent i did a lot of u. S. russia armscontrol negotiations. When i got out and i was on the council for Foreign Relations i did a Research Project with central asia, caspian sea basin. In the course russia is one of the country is on the caspian sea. So i have done a lot of work in developing markets in general. With russia in particular it is a key emerging markets. I did a lot of work there. And eventually, you know, it is kind of on the interface between capitalist and socialist types of approaches with the end of communism that president reagan worked on in terms of transition to freemarket society. I was really inspired by that growing up. And i decided that i wanted to contribute to that process. Suet there was a time in the nottoodistant past when people who worked in russia for the United States were not viewed automatically with suspicion because this was encouraged by our government as we try to help from what was the soviet union to something more we hoped, to a market economy like ours. And then your base therefore a Financial Company lived there . Guest yeah, me and another guy opened Merrill Lynch, u. S. Investment britain interim bank. We open an office there in 2004 for it is kind of related to the overall transition to the market approaches. Because in 1998, Merrill Lynch was one of the few banks that decided there is a big world wide emerging markets crisis. Russia got particularly hit hard there. And merrill decided theyre going to shut down the office. So we fast forward six years later, and russia has been the biggest, fastest Growth Market in the world. Theres a lot of privatization going on. More of a transition towards freemarket approaches. So me and another guy ended up heading over there to open the Merrill Lynch office. Suet and last point on this. And this all plays a big part of the story of what ultimately happened to you. But of course it is not unusual if you are a businessman in the former soviet union, because of the way the economy works if you are doing business with a russian jew or essence coming in contact with russian government officials. And you are in essence coming into contact knowingly or not coming into contact with people who spy for russia. Those who work for intelligence with the russian government is that right . Guest absolutely. Ed again, i had a philosophy at the time that is useful to tell the truth and help serve your country to the greatest extent that you can. That was my philosophy when i served in the navy throughout those years. In my head through a lot of different work i had done, various contacts in the u. S. Intelligence community. And some people i know, asked me for help. Again i always serve my country in various capacities if its an eagle scout, catholic altar boy, or serving my community. As well as in the navy. When i was asked, i was more than happy to help. Again with the view that it is useful to provide accurate and insightful information. And since i had lived and worked there throughout, for now it has been over 25 years, it would be useful to provide some insights which could be helpful to our country. Host so you having been a source of the pastor information for our fbi and cia, ended up really being the thing that drove the nail in the coffin in this operation that the government had against you and essentially the Trump Campaign, will get to that of a moment. But the book, abuse of power tells a story paid work and people order the book, carter . Theres a website carter page book. Com, that gives all kinds of options in terms of where, whatever bookseller you prefer, amazon, the full range there. It is all available at carter page book. Com. In case people dont who i am which is understandable, im Investigative Reporter with history of working at pbs, cnn, ivan independent show now called full measure on sinclair tv show which you can find online. And ive written my new book is called slanted, how the news Media Censorship and hate journalism carter page and i have something in common. Our stories are different but they both involved the government having surveilled this. An improper or unlawful way. That is what chapter nine of carters book focuses on. Its called overcoming the abuses against american democracy it talks about surveillance in mind to read a short passage from that. And then you can provide some context. He wrote in this chapter, the illegitimate case against me reveals several other forms of dysfunction. Document the government spying on you. I was targeted with applications for fisa surveillance the applications were filed under title i defined me as a possible agent of a foreign power. Now as an aside, you have provided intelligence for intelligent agencies but they are secretly wiretapping claiming that you could be spying for the russians. And you write, but i was not the only target. With my surveillance the federal government could make to hops from you in other words listen in on people who were talking to you and people who were communicating with them which would include stealing your private data, private data from steve bannon for example, and Steve Bannons context, donald trump. In this respect, the carter page warrant or said direct result on the first and Fourth Amendment right of all americans. People from across the philological spectrum see it as an american issue. As this unfolded, when did you start to believe that they werent just after you, they were trying to get to perhaps President Trump or perhaps others on the campaign . Two its interesting sharyl. I actually threw my contact in the intelligence community, i had someone give me a heads up. Even before one of the main defamatory articles which was used by the cold me fbi to get this fraudulent warrant. That was way back in septembe september 2015. A contact of mine with ties to the Intel Community told me that the democrats had paid quote unquote Opposition Research people to dig up dirt on then candidate trump and his supporters such as me. So i knew that they were in the process of trying to come up with these lies. Primarily with the initial idea of pumping it out to the media. And getting people to a real campaigns mayor to deceive american voters. Again this is just a couple months, less than a couple of months between 2016 election. And then sure enough on september 23, 2016, even though im getting all kinds of questions from reporters, finally the washington post, new york times, cnn theyre all after me about these same false allegations which the democrats had paid for. And their consultants were trying to push out in every way possible. Finally they found someone who is immediate organization thats either unethical enough or gullible enough or possibly bot both, to go ahead and publish this article on friday, september 23, 2016. And really the rest is history. This is one of the elements imparted this election interference where these false stories were used as a way, part of the fraudulent fisa affidavits against myself as a way of spying on so many people that i was associated with. Other Trump Campaign volunteers say by way of summary the things that were said about you secret wiretap that you were already acting as a russian spy because of the qualifications you cannot wiretap somebody in our society. You are not supposed to on a hunch or a fishing expedition. You have to already evidence in hand in some other way that youre acting as a russian spy, terrorist, or eminently about to become one. And the very fact that they wiretap to four times over the course of a year without any evidence, to charge her with anything or do anything about it, seems to belie the notion youre eminently about to do anything, by their own claims. But part of this evidence claimed that you had visited russia and made improper contact with certain russian government officials as a liaison for the Trump Campaign. Is that if there summary . Guest i think it is. I think it is important, interesting insight. And it goes back to your personal story in terms of having to deal with similar things like this. I notes part of your ongoing battles into courts related to this. It is very similar to what we have seen over the last several years for Senate Judiciary chairman, Lindsey Graham. You have been making various allegations with a lot of basis to it. And unfortunately, people within the u. S. Government department of justice, which handles all civil litigation and investigation such as this, they, unfortunately have not been very supportive at all in terms of providing full information about what happens is precisely the same thing that Senate Judiciary chairman, Lindsey Graham and so many of his colleagues in congress have been fighting for so hard. I think we are all in this battle together. It is very much the focus of this chapter here in terms of understanding everything that is at stake in how it affects so many people such as your self, myself, leaders in congress that are just trying to protect Civil Liberties. And so it is a very long, complicated story. I try to make it as simple and understandable as possible with this chapter. While also illustrating what exactly is at stake just given the civil rights abuses or potential abuses they were all susceptible here. Host lets call the ultimate catch22. It is the very intelligence and part of the government committing the abuses but also in charge of holding the perpetrators accountable. And you find they have no desire to do that or to provide the information that would allow us to do that and courts. They hold all of the cards. And this is what is so dangerous about it. It didnt just happen to you and it didnt just happen to me. My investigation said there are many operations hundreds if not thousands of people involved over short time periods, long time. In other administrations. Not just one administration. There probably to me people to count to have been involved in potential abuses of their Constitutional Rights that we may never know. He also wrote in chapter nine, being a department of justice lawyer Michael Horwitz revealed that the breakdown in surveillance is been much worse and we originally realized. In examination done of 29 of these buys at wiretap applications that were reviewed for possible abuse after they learned about yours, all 29 had serious deficiencies. Think about this. And in several cases Inspector General could not even find the documents that show the fbi mandatory processes were followed. The Inspector General revealed something that is been apparent to many for long time you write, the whole system of secret surveillance is broken. And thats abuses getting if the heart of how does it impact people. So they said this happened to carter page maybe will get redressed in the end. This is much bigger than that is in it . Guest yes, absolutely. Theres so many different dimensions and challenges related to it. And again is a little bit of a spectrum. As you are saying this is a serious problem that is happened for impacts all americans on the one hand. But also, often, i think this is a core element of First Amendment liberties, First Amendment Constitutional Rights. In addition to having freedom of the press, there is also freedom of thought and freedom of peaceable assembly. So many freedoms inherent in the First Amendment. And unfortunately what you have some times is when people have a different view, over and people such as yourself might Say Something which is not exactly what the powers that be and again the incident that started with me happened during the Obama Biden Administration. Sometimes you have pretty harsh political activists working to achieve their political objective. Sue and this is a great story, the why think youre about to tell. This is an out of while insights when i interviewed you for my program, full measure. Because when they say white target carter page. Theres some evidence they were looking for anyone surrounding President Trump. Best Case Scenario they really thought trump was a russian spy so theyre looking for russian ties. Worst Case Scenario theyre looking for excuses, anyone whod been to russia had experience in that region to try to justify a wiretap to be able to listen in on them. But you with your experience with some of the fbi, they talked with you in a time period, was of the boston bombing . Take it from there. Susie well, it is funny. Back right after the boston bombing in the first half of 2013, i was helping the fbi with a particular russian spy case in new york. And unfortunately, i was writing some various ideas in terms of the certain approaches that should be taken. Id recently written a little academic article. I had offered this in one of my meetings with the fbi agent. I had mentioned my various perspective to them. And i think what we have seen is just a real severe bias. This big Inspector General report which led into this a major investigation. The initial isa abuse report that the Trump Campaign and myself, that were inflicted upon us. I mean that was a very serious issue. But unfortunately, it extends far beyond that. One of the elements of that, one of the big debates is the Inspector General horwitz, and obama appointee said that well, we dont find any political bias here. Its an interesting conclusion and a lot of people who actually know, pushback on this really hard. On the face of it, there is a ton of evidence of political bias. And unfortunately, and its very similar to what we are talking about, that you had to do with, chairman Lindsey Graham in so many members of congress have had to deal with in terms of getting the truth, it is only part of the story. I always refer to it is garbage in garbage out, right . So this Inspector General report, they interviewed 100 witnesses. And read over a million documents as part of their overall review. Unfortunately a lot of the same perpetrators were the same people they are talking about. So, i think it is understandable where if youre only talking to many of the same bad actors, of course theyre going to say oh we are not biased at all. I was begging them to let me provide some input. And unfortunately, forever reason this is another example where Civil Liberties is not being respected number one, but also the rule of law not being respected. The privacy act of 1974, which gives american citizens, if the government is keeping records on you, you have the right to review that information. Particularly before they distributed to the entire world. There are a lot of problems and that december 2019 Inspector General report. And i thought it was really essential that i have some help set the record straight. Too that is when i decided to write this book basically. Just because the story is so i just wanted to tell the full story in terms of everything that happened as far as the Election Interference Campaign and President Trumps first campaign. Sue and take us back. Wasnt there a remark you made to one of these fbi people, some years ago that you thought mightve stuck in their cross little bit . And it made them, maybe more vindictive when it came to coming after you . Guest yeah, again, it is typical freedom of speech, freedom of ideas. Again, i wrote in an op ed, which was actually very critical of the obama administrations policy. And one thing in particular that i tried to argue in this article is instead of, there were a lot of mistakes in Foreign Policy and inJustice System context during the obama administration, but if they had paid more attention and looked for more constructive approaches, so many threats coming so many National Security threats to america couldve been completely avoide avoided. There was calling people out for some of their mistakes in terms of this academic article which is got no real attention other than me talking to the fbi agents about it. And unfortunately, one thing led to another and just about a year end half later, her meeting in the middle of 2013 after some help i was giving them. Host way before the crime scandal. Guest yes. And then a year end a half later in january of 2015, eric holder, john carland, senior d. O. J. Official in the Obama Biden Administration come out with this indictment of three alleged russian spies. And unfortunately they gave highly Sensitive Information to this open indictment. And again, i had supported them and given them a lot of accurate information. The way the information was presented, number one i had no forewarning that this would be taken to the next level in terms of making this a public indictment and actually filing these charges. But even worse is the fact that some of the things that i had laid out and told them in my original meeting with them, and particularly that they juxtaposed it with some other information in this indictment, really miss portrayed the information i had given them. Which one thing leads to another and unfortunately with a not very professional way of managing that case or recognizing someone who had long supported the u. S. Intelligence community and the Justice System for many, many years, just really essentially putting my life at risk. Because eventually, i explained that on the book it is a long and some of the prior chapters, it is an ongoing sort of spy thriller if you will. My back and forth. Although i was supporting them on the one hand, just also calling them out and some of my meetings with them, explaining the mistakes that had been made. And unfortunately, voicing or telling the truth and voicing an honest opinion made me even more of a personal target for political reasons than i could have imagined. Host s a closing the loop on the violation of law, i think there were numerous ones. May know for sure now that happened against you by fbi, it is required when they make the secret wiretap applications that the person theyre trying to get a wiretap against, like you, has a relationship with the federal government as a source, which you did youd help the fbi and the cia, that must be disclosed that is in the fda rules among other things that they did not follow. And when you publicly implied or stated or discussed with the fbi in a letter to them, hey, i helped you in the past, please come to me if you have any questions about this, this is ridiculous when this being elites that youre some kind of spy, they withheld that information from the court. Apparently there is an exchange with them, the fbi, the cia. The cia confirmed to the fbi you had been a source. That was the trigger that should have forced them to disclose this Important Information to the court which might have made the court say, something seems a little funny here, why would a guy who knows hes being watched who has helped us in the past, is spying supposedly on behalf of rick russia . But instead this fbi attorney whos pled guilty to this, admits to having doctored the information, forge the document and said he would not man according to the cia, a pastor source. And that, i guess, what really makes everything fall apart in a very official way in terms of what they did to you. Guest yeah, i think that is a great summary. Again, this is one a very powerful fbi attorney who was involved in this particular part of the charade. I think if you read closely the indictment, and as you are referring to, me giving a heads up, the fbi in that case two days after the defamatory article planted by the democrats in september 2016 on sunday that timber 25th, 2016 i sent a letter to then fbi director james comey just explain the truth. In trying to explain reality to this guy. And i said at the end of this letter, i had been in touch with you and been in touch with the cia going back a long time. And please, if you will, this is obvious how ridiculous shes allegations are. If you have any remaining questions, if you have any sort of doubts whatsoever, do not hesitate to contact me. Not only did they not contact me during that period, over the five plus months of following that is when mr. Comey and sally yates submitted the first two false highly inaccurate fisa awards to the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court in washington. And unfortunately, not only were they not talking to me, they were instead dealing with a dnc funded consultant who is doing this major Smear Campaign against then candidate trump and his supporters such as me. And leaking like crazy to the media. I mean there is so much wrongdoing encapsulated in thei their. It is encouraging that some initial steps have been taken in terms of reestablishing the rule of law. But unfortunately, there is just so much more that needs to be uncovered. I hope this book provides initial impotence in terms of some of the major problems. I just wanted the American People to know what the full truth is. An underlying this completely incredible attack. The book is called abuse and power. The notion the attorney general wanted to speak with you during this investigation, 70 tried to get the fbi to talk and clear things up as they were targeting you, reminds me a little bit when the Government Operations against me, were confirmed. I never dreamed, had intel sources that alerted me because i never wouldve imagined the government was spying on me and other journalists. But i later learned the fbi announce the intrusions and it prove there were no intrusions that happen. We had half a dozen forensics it jams it showed various aspects of government it addresses reused and so on. But i learned through freedom of information act request the fbis provoked withholding most of the information for me about my own case, they opened a case when cbs announced there had been intrusions into my computer. And they listed me as the victim. Never contacted me. Never try to help me, never told me there is a case. I was not even aware of it. I can only assume it is because of some contacts inside that new this was an welding government agents, it was not a rogue case involving outsiders. Just reminds me a new say here you are waiting at the door to talk to them and to help clear your name and sort things out, which you have a right to do. And you cannot even get their attention as you are being smeared. One interesting fact, when i interviewed you for my program was, and i did not know the answer to the question before i asked it. I even forget how it came up, but basically, had you, it will be spoke before, ever met to donald trump . Guest i had never then baume last spoke. And i still have never had the privilege of meeting him. And you know, it is unfortunately i just being totally miss portrayed, i have been a man on the run. I refer to it as my International Fugitive years. Unfortunately with the same types of problems and challenges which were created by this massive government footprint coming down on your head, like a goliath, unfortunately, and i know you have had similar battles and terms of trying to reestablish justice with your own case, it is just been an uphill battle, nonstop. But no, i have never had the opportunity. And unfortunately, this is one of the core problems the Election Interference Campaign during the Obama Biden Administration. Unfortunately, they smear various people. And then it creates huge legal liability for anyone who wants to communicate or maintain a relationship. And i talk about this in the book for certain individuals. So essentially, by the time 2016 election came around, i was just a complete international pariah. Almost everyone i knew wanted to have nothing to do with me. Not just highlevel people within the Trump Campaign, including the candidate himself, but basically everyone i knew. So the one exception to that was a professor from Cambridge University in the uk. This judgment by the name of stephan, he has now been revealed. Unfortunately he was part of what is known as spy gate, where government operatives were looking to surveilled and be part of the spying operation against the Trump Campaign, unfortunately. And so, along the lines of well have you met them . So it wasnt really meeting with anyone with the exception of this one guy who i thought was potentially a goodhearted person with his heart in the right place. Little did i know that he was a high paid government operative hired during the Obama Biden Administration to spy on the Trump Campaign or the operation for the campaign at that time. Host the perception of the absurdity that youd be some high level russian spy working for the Trump Campaign with trump who was a russian spy in their view. And you have never met the man. I think you said youve never spoken to him on the phone, never emailed him, nothing. Guest yes. Soon the horwitz report came out in 2019, there was never any doubt, even if people had some doubt, that improper things have been done to you specifically. In obvious is bigger implications. And now that theres been a guilty plea by the fbi attorney, the former attorney i believe his name was kevin, theres been a guilty plea in your case showing that you have been abused. Has anybody reached out to you from government, department of justice, has there been any attempt to remedy this . I know theres no way to say get your reputation back or go back in time. And sadly even attainment of money will not be addressed in a significant way. But he gets that the only thing the government could potentially do. Has someone reached out to you of the giant apology and some offer to try to remedy some of these wrongs . Guest again somewhat similar to your case, sharyl, where it has been a long ongoing battle. Which just continues and continues. And i have been fighting this, going back to the time for years ago when i wrote that letter to james comey. I have just been fighting for the truth and fighting force some small semblance of justice. And so unfortunately, ive been in various litigation, myself up against the Massive Department of justice. And part of the problem is, this is literally the Largest Law Firm in the world. Countless i mean 10000 plus lawyers. With on limited resources with the ability to achieve their individual and many cases political objective. Although there have been important steps forward, my experience route this time theres been very few steps, very little willingness to write these wrongs. I will however, mention one small glimmer of hope. It also relates to sir kleinsmith. This month in august 2020, was the first time, we have talked about the privacy act, phis abuse, criminal activity by government operatives such as the one we were just discussing, this was the first time that some steps by d. O. J. Were actually shown to actually respect my legal rights and Constitutional Rights. Theres just one slight legal trivia, theres one block called the crime victims rights act. Many aspects of this law have been completely disregarded. Even though it was widely understood that all of these criminal acts had been conducted against myself as a way of damaging President Trump. But it was the first time this month that the department of justice took very limited steps to begin remedying the situatio situation. It is a small initial, tiny, glimmer of hope. We will have to see how everything plays out with that. Again, i was greatly encouraged. So that law, part of it one of the tenants of the losses you have the right to be treated with fairness and with respect for the victims and dignity and privacy. And i think that one sentence in this u. S. Law, is the absolute opposite of everything ive had to deal with, and so many other people had to deal unfortunately. Host can you say specifically, i dont fully understand the impact of what you just described in your case. Guest no real impact yet. All i will say is people have often talked about the boomerang were all of these bad acts by government officials creating incalculable damages for innocent people such as myself, various Trump Supporters, this is the first time that just basic legal rights, again the right to be treated with fairness and respect. So yes, you are right its a point well taken. There is certainly a tremendous amount of the needs to be done. As is the very first small tiny glimmer that perhaps people somewhere within the department of justice are now acting ethically and in accordance with the rule of law. So i am very encouraged by that one tiny step. And hopefully there are giant leaps in the period to come. So my last question along these lines, and might understand that that even today at least as we speak, you have been suing the department of justice to try to get some of these wrongs remedied somehow. And despite the fact that the Inspector General came out last december and found these violations and despite the fact theres no dispute about it, its a fight the court itself has acknowledged and further investigation of these abuses, you are still fighting in court . They have not come to you and said you were right there is nothing to anymore . We give up . Guest well, i mean, let me say this. I have a few initial steps that i have tried taking. Unfortunately the first time, originally i filed a case in the Southern District of new york. I talk about this in an earlier chapters well. But unfortunately, i made various claims against the government. And then it was during the rosen sign session years at the department of justice. And unfortunately it was a continuation of either false or Misleading Court pleadings. By d. O. J. Little did i known i first filed my case three years ago in september of 2017, that a few months later through a great investigation by chairman Lindsey Graham of the Senate Judiciary committee as well as then chairman of the House Speaker intelligence committee, kevin nunez, uncovered that none other than mr. Rosenstein himself was one of the people who signed this fall score pleading against me in jun june 2017, well into the Trump Administration already. So again, it is highly disappointing. But i bear in mind there are a lot of other Trump Supporters who are feeling similar problems, for example general flynn. And again there certain steps that need to be taken. But you know it is a big catch up game right now. Well have to see how everything plays out. Because after so many years of wrongdoing, we are in the process of rebuilding. And obviously, now that we are just a couple of months before the 2020 election, i am hopeful that there can be some progress. Because certainly if you listen to for example last week, sally gates, another person who signed to also buys out warrants to trample my civil and legal rights, she was a big pull or judge and political operative at the big National Convention of the dnc. What is the significance of the dnc . Will that is the same organization that funded and help put together this terrible dossier, which was part of the serious civil rights abuses which i had to endure. Suing the Democratic National committee. Again you sign off on these wiretaps, i am told by my inside sources you would normally stay far, far away from a political competitor. You just dont do it. And if you feel you must for some overriding reason, that would have to go all the way to the top to the president of the United States because it is such a sensitive matter that they would have to examine that. And then youd want to look at the wiretap if you sign off on it and make Crystal Clear that all the processes have been followed. Youd want to do that personally not just sign it as a say they did, and other people are implying they were fooled by the people under them when it was their responsibility to make sure it didnt happen. Anyway wow, what a story. Neeson carter page. Com is a place with all the options for the book. Carter page books. Com. Is called abuse and power this story is amazing. Thank you carter page. Thank you so much
vimarsana.com © 2020. All Rights Reserved.