The but not to pay i95 or to deliver a package to my po box church. Pgo works book is a cry from the new middle visit the website booktv. Org and type the authors name or book title into the search box. To the of the program. Good evening thank you for joining us for the program today. My name is gavin im the director of programs, exhibitions and partnerships for the massachusetts Historical Society. Before i begin the program on extend a special welcome to anyone who might be attending Virtual Program for the first time. If youre not filming with mhs was the oldest Historical Society in america in a been collecting preserving collecting and preserving our history since 1971. Have an amazing collection of close to 14 million manuscript pages and putting papers of three of the first six u. S. President s. In these days of social distancing we take into hosting virtual events. We have Online Events planned for the rest of the calendar year exploring many subjects of u. S. And massachusetts history which including seminars, brownbag lunch talks in the upcoming conference. For making our collections and online programs available for free we are only able to do this actually support of our members. If you are not a member or supporter, i hope you will consider joining us. With a special event this evening, will explore the life and legacy our speaker is who is a professor of history and the Beckett Family senior fellow at the university produce also National Endowment for the humanities fellow for 20202021 season. This area of specialty is cold war modern presidency and u. S. Political and double medic history with a focus on the 1960s from got john kennedy through watergate. Professor is a noted expert on Richard Nixons white house tapes. He is a maritime lifetime author of seven books including Richard Nixon in europe the reshaping of the postwar atlantic in his most recent book is making of the cold war. Since the first full biography whose public career spanned from the 1930s to 1970s. He is also a longtime friend to mhs. His research brought him into the mhs reading room and his work have been supported with a known fellowship the massachusetts Historical Society so that further do, please join me and welcome professor nick and dermot. I am grateful for the massachusetts Historical Society. Not just for hosting this event but for all of the reasons mentioned in the announcement of the book including facilitating is gavin said Numerous Research trips over a period of several years. And also for loaning many boxes of microfilm all the way to texas. I mean it literally if when i say would not be your thigh your health. Money also think cspan book tv. Not just for covering the event tonight before truly being the best in the business that what you do. I like to give a preview in terms of what i plan to do with our time. With the books officials pub date thing tomorrow, meaning many of you might not had a chance to read it yet. I would like to talk a little bit about what i learned anyway. Of lodge, about writing and research in the process of discovery for that way when you do have the chance to read the book these points might have greater meaning. At the end, it will be happy to answer some questions you like to ask a question and dont get a chance, the free semi and email. I always enjoy hearing from readers from those who tend book talks. Course the new ideas and conversation that are stimulated by those messages. I think or i will i see in my students. Henry cabot lodge is the most famous person youve never heard of. That is what is students. I do not know when i personally first heard the name Henry Cabot Lodge. Probably either in high school or college. However i do remember my reaction. He was a person with a famous sounding name yet i cannot place him. Was he the one who was Woodrow Wilsons nemesis . If so, how old he have been Richard Nixon in 1960 . Lodge did look older like the grandfatherly eisenhower than the youthful nixon during that race. You know, for this kid who grew up in the midwest, lodge has when this names you knew is important but you did not know why. For many the misunderstanding is compounded by the fact that Henry Cabot Lodge junior was named not for his father who died when cabot is he known was young. But his grandfather. And in addition, there are so many cabot and lodges especially in the northeast and family traditions are such that certain first names like henry repeat through multiple generations of the family tree. This is a book i never planned to write. As a writer there are things you spend a lot of time on, but they never quite gained traction. Then there are things you have no plan to write that come together relatively easily. This book is in the latter category. In early 2015 the executive editor of Yale University press of who would go on to become my editor called me to it ask what i knew about Henry Cabot Lodge junior. I tried to think of an area to answer but my answer is not much. I knew it lodge was a figure whose name appeared often on the kennedy, johnson and Nixon White House tapes making him almost unique in that sense. But he was still an enigma to me. Then bill asked me what the big book on lodge was nice that i dont think there is one. Bill was intrigued after entering a big book ought Richard Nixons vice presidency in which lodges name also kept coming up. So he asked me if i like to propose a biography. At the time signing a contract in the summer of 2015 i knew lodge had a substantial volume of papers at the massachusetts Historical Society. And the researcher probably necessitate research every president ial library from Herbert Hoover all be up to ronald reagan. And probably also extended trip to vietnam. But he really did not know it is getting into. And if i did i mightve thought twice about it. Im the kind of research are that if youre going to write about for example when lodgment eisenhower during the war, youve got to go to lg or to the hotel st. George on the top of the hill and see the site eisenhowers headquarters. Researcher me as an obsession that can be especially problematic when writing about summit like lodge was such a long career that took him to so my parts of the world. Now at the other end of this journey whether one comes with the first biography of Henry Cabot Lodge junior liking him more or less, the real purpose is to show that lodge was so much more than meets the eye. The sheer number of notable events of with he which was associated. Yet his role was hidden in those events make some kind of a cross between a wheres waldo, a forest gump and at times even a james bond type figure. A member of the greatest generation crossed with the best and brightest, lodges values and sacrifice of self or bigger causes are traits in short supply that our Society Needs again. While some politicians give lip service to serving the greater good, most famous is stated in john f. Kennedys admits ish and ask not what your country can do for you but what you could do for your country, lodge lived it. He was the last troop boston brahman to be active in public life. His career goes back to a time and compromise was an art and a comedy of virtue instead of a political they become today. Difficult finding a photo for the cover of a book like this. One photo capture someone with so many different phases of a life, of a career. Besides the one thats on the cover i would like to show you a few more that helped illustrate his life in his career. If youd please advance to the next slide. This photos Lyndon Johnson captures a behind the seam role with five consecutive president s from Dwight Eisenhower through gerald ford. Here in this photo on the south lawn lodge and johnson mustve escaped the oval office undetected, containing their conversation outside away from johnsons taping system. Once the press figured out they were on the loose, they quickly work to catch up. It is a theme throughout lodges career. And in the photo, this is the one of the one that appears in the book. He could see a number of familiar faces in the crowd including his son george in the back of the room. And then as you move aright from their secretary of state dean rusk. Secretary state mcnamara and Vice President hubert humphrey. If you could please advance the next slide. The next one is also something i noticed a lot in the various White House Photo collections. For a period of nearly 20 years lodge was often in the room when important decisions were made. While not always in cabinet, he consistently operated at that level or even as a second secretary of state at times. Having the actual title was something lodge rarely asked for or mentioned. And here again with mcnamara and ross injunction, when ross was asked his opinion many others in the oval office took note. Rather than learn what Henry Cabot Lodge junior stood for or the lessons of his life, and said we have largely forgotten him. As we did the other members of the best and the brightest for the role of vietnam. For example, similar question that my editor could have asked me what is the big book on dean rusk . There is not one today. Or robert mcnamara, there isnt one. Most of these wafer big biographies will surely be written one day. Unlike russ and mcnamara his life other than vietnam for the postwar era in terms of Foreign Policy influence ensure versatility i put them up there with Marshall James baker each represent their own era. Lodge tapes of his best years of Public Service and Democratic Administration with the other party its heartedly people like lodge willingly works for democrats to consider it a duty to do so. But harry truman and Dwight Eisenhower each appointed members of the opposite party to the supreme court. We should member lodge for taking part in an expanding the american adventure in southeast asia. The halfcentury public life is more than that. Entire generation of americans has been born and come of age since lodges death in 1985. The lessons of his life and times except at most a brief mention of the vietnam war. Lodge being oldfashioned did himself no Great Service controversial subjects or tellall memoir. Never tell them how she did it when asked if you plan to write a comprehensive history of his career. I do not sing book he said its interesting i dont reveal them than the book will be dull he wrote to evan thomas the Second Period one of eight editors interested in publishing lodges memoir. Its an air of big personalities and ideas that stood out against the mundane and the mediocre. Once again about Public Officials seek opportunities to serve for a primary reads other than financial gain. On three occasions lodge gave up his political career to serve the greater good. Thank he reserved to serve in kent by combat world war ii second when he sacrificed his senate seat to manage eisenhowers campaign for the presidency. And we willingly accept an appointment from the democratic present too the most challenging posts in the world. Knowing including those have benefited from lodges sacrifices were there to help in 1964 when he had a genuine chance for the presidency following his surprise when in the New Hampshire primary even though his success to withhold their support. His first ambassador tour in saigon from 1963 to 1964 represents where the greatest turning points and not just what would be known as the vietnam war but you have this time with the cold war. The people Like Community with her corresponded in some form for the buck including family members in virtually every form that i could track down who was still living, one in particular gave me early on a suggestion that not only did i carry out what resulted in the particular book you see. Phillips wrote a good book himself about vietnam holds aye vietnam matters about a decade ago was a jfk era official who is serving in vietnam at the time of lodges first appointmen appointment. As ambassador which began in august of 1963. Over breakfast at a diner in arlington, virginia, Rufus Phillips encouraged me to it study the origins of lodges appointment to vietnam. Most important contribution you can make, brook philip said to me was to determine in these instructions regarding the kill on november 1, 1963, for me then hearing that advice it hardly seems possible that i could find something new that adds to our understanding of an event that is been written about so many times. The most famous account being those featured in pentagon papers which began appearing in 1971. And then later the mid 1970s publish volleys of the Church Committee. The conventional wisdom today is that the coup which occurred at least to some degree of cia support was a key turning point in terms of American Military involvement in vietnam. Resulting in the assassination a u. S. Ally. By removing a widely and destabilize in vietnam as colin powell said about iraq when you break it, you buy it. And the coup of the events leading up to the coup with the fall of 1963 was when the knighted states bought it. Three weeks later they were deployed to the beaches in 1965. His lodges meetings with kennedy to occurred after the initiation of the taping system the summer of 1962. And occurred in a location of the taping system functioned in the oval office. Thousand june and august of 1963. I have seen plenty of strain things with respect to president ial tapes after working on the nixon tapes for so long. But to help with the kennedy tapes is defined in evidence of a tape that once existed, a tape that remain restricted or classified that i could request a review and hopefully in time for this book. Or anything at all that might simply lead me to the next clue. What Rufus Phillips suggested to determine what kennedy and lodge discussed about the coup seemed like an impossible task. Kennedy of course did not live to write about it from his perspective. And lodge generally did not talk about the subject with only a few exceptions were he was generally disciplined and would stick with the general account of his conversations with kennedy. If you could please advance to the next slide. And so of course and a talk like this at the skip over quite a few details. But the first thing i did trying to track down and follow through with his advice that phillips gave me was digging in some records about the promise of the county tapes. The deed of gift, where the tapes were stored at various times, the chain of custody, how they were process ultimately at the National Archives. Any irregularities along the wa way, major press coverage during the time, leading up to when they became public. And then of course when, why existence and knowledge of the taping system became public. So that is what you see here in this 1982 frontpage story in the Washington Post authored by a journalist who had already become famous for writing about president ial tapes, bob woodwar woodward. I think an informal word about the taping system has begun to spread as early back in 1973 and through the 1970s, it was relate this peace by woodward in 1982 they gave front page attention to the tapes first time. Besides the big headline the inside pages of the paper that day are several pages listing the extensive logs of the kennedy system including the dates that were recorded, subjects that were discussed, people that kennedy met with. Giving you tantalizing clues about what may be on the recording system without actually giving away any tapes themselves or transcripts from this tapes. So these are really logs. This was really the first strike against me and my task that phillips gave me. Because the list of dates that go on for pages, have a full copy here but i cannot reproduce it for the screen. On the righthand side is a list of dates taped in august of 1963. So those corresponding with lodges for world meeting with kennedy in the oval office. We can see the qualities of the best i could make it, the dates skip right over the farewell meeting with kennedy and august 15, 1963. In other words according to bob woodward and the official logs of the kennedy taping system there was no recording made of the meeting. But i was not ready to give up yet. Again comics friends with the nixon tapes showed me sometimes you can still find other clues. So if you could please advance to the next slide. You know, many writers over decades better known than me and more than a few famous vietnam era journalists have been over this long before me. Thats her like a good starting point after striking out with the coverage i found in the Washington Post to see whether writers before meet looked into this mystery and what they might have discovered. They started to look into it and might have lost the scent or the trail went cold at some point, maybe with future tapes and document releases that will be a good place for me to it pick up the search. So i went through all the obvious things. David howards panthers in boston, and others. The prominent journalist from the era from that kennedy years through the pentagon papers era. In part because, some of them are still in private hands, even today. There are still a few people who are live from that time. One in particular i was able to get access to was some of arthur dolmans correspondence. As one of firstgeneration great scholars of vietnam. And the papers were perfect example of those were private hands i was able to get access to his estate. He found a number of letters is one in particular that interested me. You dont have to read the entire thing right in the next slide ill blow up the part of it i carried the most about. I found this letter to be particularly interesting from ones kennedy scholar to another from arthur dolman to arthur dallek for the last paragraph is really caught my eye for i will enlarge it on the next light if you could please advance to tha that. The next paragraph which i will read in just a moment, really appeared to be kind of the second strike against me in my search. I would like to read it, this final paragraph of this letter dated august 1, 2003. Two i am grateful to you for confirming in your letter there appears to be no written record of kennedys instructions to lodge. Knowledge of what kennedy asked lodge to do in saigon, of course he read a serious disadvantage. I doubt seriously that it will turn up at the Kennedy Library. Although i will keep checking as she wisely suggests. And im convinced that logit average of cover his tracks after mastermind the overthrow of the legally constituted governors of South Vietnam in the murder of the president destroyed all copies of his instructions. Which most assuredly did not instruct them to do these things. That is white and blair did not find them in lodges favors at the massachusetts Historical Society when she went through them. By way of background, and blair wrote a book lodge in vietnam about 20, 25 years ago. Also published by Yale University press. She was the first scholar to have a chance to look at the papers even before they were all opened. The first to be unopened. After reading this i thought it looks like others have been down this path. And looks even further like my search may not be very fruitful. So finally, the third thing i thought about was are there any others before me who might have had statutory access or some reason to know what kennedy and lodge might have discussed during that farewell meeting . Or during the earlier meeting in june when they met in the oval office . That led me to it several people it led me to it les gelb he was a general editor of the pentagon papers. When it met with him, he gave me some additional clues to followup on which were helpful. But not in this case, the clue was really looking for. I kept coming back to the Church Committee. But other than the published volumes that exist and are Available Online and fulltext, not a page of those records in terms of the work product of that committee have ever been released to the public. Even today. Fortyfive years later. They are currently in a physical custody of the National Archives private access to them remains restricted by congress today. So then i thought about the state departments Foreign Relations of the United States series. First, as it is known as the official documentary record of u. S. Foreign policy going all the back to the lincoln administration. It basically is important Foreign Policy that occurs during administration its in there. Somewhere in the volume. The volume usually appear about 30 or 40 years, sometimes more pre30 or 40 years after the events. They document them. Once the records in question become declassified and obvious to take a very long time. She could please advance to the next slide. Dealing with the kennedy menstruation in vietnam through august of 1963 was published in 1991. So its been out of the oval for a a while. It had three editors predict tract at only one of whom was still living. Edward keefer. The volume skips right over any substance of lodges meeting in june and in august of 1963. But it left me a breadcrumb of hope. All other books and many other fine work skip right past august 15, 1963 often times not even mentioning lodges farewell for the possibility that kennedy might have given him instructions prior to his farewell. To this volume led me to it this obscure editorial note 254 armed page 891 of this roughly thousand page volume. I reproduced editorial note 254 here on the screen. And added a red box around the whole thing that caught my eye. No record of their discussion has been found in the description of that meeting between lodging kennedy for his farewell he left office in 1963. So over the years i came to learn ted keefer style, the way he wrote, the way he did footnotes. Over the series of many first poems later in his career became the general editors of the series while this volume on jfk in 1991 was one of his very first. So i tracked him down. He was semi retired and working as a consultant in the office of the secretary of defense. He was kind enough to talk to me. I did not expect him to remember the content of this note, this footnote in a volume from nearly 30 years ago. But he did immediately. That got my attention. I told him that i noted this phrase, no record of their discussion has been found was not his usual style. And he agreed. And then he told me, he went on to tell me completely unprompted about the unusual process that he and the other first editors had in terms of accessing any kennedy tapes. Despite that statutory responsibility of the office of the historian to produce a complete record of Foreign Policy, the first teams access was restricted only to cuban missile crisis tapes that were specifically approved by Kennedy National security adviser. At this point ted keefer had my attention. Former jfk Library Archivist sheldon stern argue be the greatest living experts on the kennedy home about the bundy review process. It was a joke. Bundy was so old and he could barely hear the tapes as it was. Keefer told me that according to his notes related to this editorial note 254, he had a postit note to check out or to refer to kennedy tape 104. So i jotted that down. I was already making regular trips to boston. In that lares on my regular stops or research. So i got a plane ticket and went up there. This was when the Kennedy Library is just starting to digitize the tapes and records and put them online. Some things are online already. Some things werent. It is still that way today. Over the Kennedy Library, credit is due has arguably been the best leader and to volley president ial libraries in terms of digitalization and putting things online and during the pandemic allowing research and education to continue without access to the originals while the president ial Library Remains closed. Lodges meetings with kennedy i found at the Kennedy Library, the two main ones june of 1963 and the farewell in august that was the subject of this mysterious footnotes in the first series. Or important enough to have photos taken per if you could please advance the next slide. This first photo, and there are others taken from the meeting is from the first of the two meetings in the oval office between kennedy and lodge. This is in june of 1963. Just after the worldfamous shocking self emulation that got Many Americans attention when its printed on the front pages of many newspapers. And it was through this meeting the historical consensus is that this is the event, the discussion when kennedy first asked lodge to go to vietnam as he was the ambassador. Despite what has been written as part of the conventional wisdom about the kennedy and lodge families being enemies, i think that is really been overdone. I think i would call them friendly rivals. Its clear they were cut from if not the same a similar cloth. One mightve been old money, one was new. One mightve been a Third Generation irish immigrant catholic family. Mr. They had more in common the most bold realize. And of course theyve known each other for a long time if you could please advance the next light. Speck seven the first faceoff of the senate 1952 when commentators at the time said it was really the race to watch in the country. The winner was seen at the time is someone who would probably have a shot at the presidency in the coming years. You know i look at this photo today, the first thing im struck by is how Young Kennedy looks in the photo. What was interesting is kennedy was the same age as lodge. When lodge first when the senate seat in 1936. Kennedy and 36 was still an undergraduate at harvard never imagine one day he would faceoff against lodge for the senate 1952 let alone defeat him and take the seat away from him. If you please advance the next slide. Photos were also taken here of lodges august 15 farewell meeting with kennedy in the oval office. When i first saw this photo i think the historian any kind of studying it and looking for certain details was dying to know, what could possibly be printed on the paper the table directly in front of kennedy or in the envelope which might have been a department of state envelope that looks like it is open sitting there perhaps with some other documents. None of these records have ever surfaced in the archives as far as i know. So its tantalizing to think what might be there were just inside in their jacket pockets. These photos, like the previous one unusual they were captured in color at the time. Give you a vivid fly on the wall sense of these conversations. Yet we remained just out of earshot of what they were talking about. The fact is, ambassador of farewells as i knew from the nixon tapes were often rarely substantive right often times about 15 minutes the main point was a handshake, a photograph, may be a comment about do something great for the country. I hope your wife enjoys shopping, something along those lines. After alton no president is known to be experts in Foreign Policy can possibly know enough about all parts of the world to Say Something substantive to an ambassador preparing to leave for that country. So i did what few people ever do, start to listen to hours and hours of kennedy tapes. At this point id no reason to believe a tape existed. Again there is nothing posted in the pub Washington Post, notebook and mention the tape or the discussion of the meeting, no record of the conversation had ever materialized or surfaced. And neither had the Church Committee or the pentagon papers ever mention. All i had to go on was the clue that ted keefer at give me from the first series. So where to start . You really cant dive into president ial tapes at a certain point. There is no substitute for listen to hours and hours. So start at the beginning of 1963. That way i could get months of context prep prior to his departure in august. I listened carefully toyed site easily 100 hours of tapes, took notes along the way. Ice had lots of grad students are probably never speak to me again to follow up on certain clues, certain things i heard of other records to track down to corroborate something heard in the recording. I heard of lot of really interesting things that possibly, as i inched forward in the tapes of conversation by conversation from the summer of 1963 what i hope to find a thought i would find really were conversations about lodge of the deliberative process among kennedy and his advisors to appoint him to the job in saigon, the summer months in vietnam increasingly took on more of kennedys personal time. Ultimately lodges departure in mid august. Finally i got chronologically up to tape 104 which is the one that ted keefer had said to look into earlier. On the tape and includes lots of other conversations like most tapes, the kennedy tapes are a little easier. Often times 20 or 30 minutes as opposed to our reels of conversation the nixon tapes come into. There are other conversations on subjects recorded at different times. You might have an entire day or might be sporadic spread out over several weeks of taping. And all of a sudden i heard and recognize lodges voice on the recording. I knew it sounded like, i knew what to expect i had studied him. His accent i knew was not a typical boston accent light kennedy or relevant for me on the nixon tapes i knew lodges accent was different more like fdr almost eastern accent. And when i heard it i was stunned. I immediately went to the reference desk at the jfk library and asked whether anyone had ever transcribed the tape . Was there a researcher they are or were there anyone internally on the staff of the library and archivists, whether a transcript it ever been published anywhere . They can never claim with certainty. They keep a fairly good eye on what is published. In most president ial libraries have a substantial reference volume of books that cite and utilize their collections. But the staff to me they didnt think so, they were not aware of anything with they cannot be sure. So iceman several months really studying the recording itself. And listening to it over and over, easily more than a hundred times. I learned from the nixon tapes that you cant listen to something 100 times and really think you have it figured out. And then as soon as you take that break and you go and do Something Else to clear your shortterm memory might be gardening or something outside or playing with your kids in this case i have a 6yearold who does not let me listen to tapes very long without wanting some attention. You can back that hundred and first time in your something different, a slight word that might even change the meaning of an entire passage. I spent several months going over the conversation. As i felt my transcript got better. I even as i think it got refine refined. I shared it with no one. Wheres many researchers would have been excited to a degree i was. I was terrified at that point. I was terrified because i think i felt a great burden to get this right. It was potentially an important event. And i did not want anymore to overstate something than to understate somethings importance. And really what i did was the opposite of what i think someone should do in that situation. Which is to fire off eight or 50 words in a hotbed to the first place that will publish it. We should really do is claim it as your own, plant your flag. Instead, it took about four years to study this recording and try to cooperate its content. Hoping of course no one would beat me to it it in the meantime. I knew from working on the nixon tapes for many years that tapes can give a listener a false sense of security. Perhaps he believes something more because we heard it ourselves. But instead, tapes really must be interpreted, corroborated, triangulated and put into context. Even with tapes the writing of history remains very much a collaborative process. As my understanding of the content matured over that period of time, although there are still mysteries in it i cannot answer even today, i started to share with a very small group. I felt in a way i was protecting a trade secret. I thought to protect a trade secret the purse ice recipe of cocacola are the you tell everyone of you tell no one. So a dish i took gradually started to tell more and more people so i can be sure of what i had. I decide i cannot share thinning journalist friends and certainly fellow historian stephanie could not be trusted. Instead, i shared it and gained additional insights from those who are close to the participants prefigured those in government whod already been entrusted to keep a lot of secrets could certainly keep one more mind certainly paled in comparison birds are shared initially with just a very small group george cabot lodge, henry kissinger, and the last two are really the final two living kennedy officials were senior enough them to know the subject of worked on it Rufus Phillips again introduced earlier. And Thomas Hughes the Kennedy State Department director for intelligence research. You can read more about some the back story in the book. Because i tell the story better there. But he also discussed a number of other secrets i found in the archives. But the following is the bottom line my interpretation of this recording which you can read more about in the book. And from august 15, 1963 the farewell meeting his seat in the photo here with kennedy in the oval office. I take on this tape as well as its mysterious providence which goes well beyond the daunting task of writing a biography is jfk green light to contact the generals in saigon. For lodge to do that and to look to the possibility of a coup. Jfk recording convinces me was willing to accept the coup under certain conditions. The tape represents the first evidence to surface that demonstrates jfks knowledge and involvement and discussion of a possible coup at an early date. Prior to lodges departure for saigon itself. I do not argue in the book of the conversation represents an order for a cue. And they clearly say it was eisenhower not kennedy the maid regime change part of the midfifties. Not sure another president jfk situation wouldve come to a dramatically different of the followup 1963 and vietnam. So this conversation and the meeting between kennedy and lodge in 1963 and august is an important peace of the puzzle part of the certainly not the final one. It is a significant revision of the conventional wisdom that theres not a scintilla of evidence that kennedy had knowledge the precoup. Of a q let alone an assassination which lodge warns kennedy about more than once. During this recording and also in later cables about an assassination plan from saigon. Many of these records but later it was claimed kennedy new nothing about. Some of them even have apple and lincolns handwriting in the upper righthand corner the president has read. Now kennedy obvious he never spoke about this meeting with lodge because he did not live to tell his side of the story. Lodge did not know he is been secretly recorded. I was never asked by anyone during his lifetime was suspicion to believe anything substantive was discussed during this conversation. And the mysterious tape that showed up in the jfk library decades later after is not supposed to exist. When the tape was declassified i learned in 2009 married only the briefest mention and a brief Associated Press write up that actually devoted more space being 2009 to discussing president obamas Foreign Policy in afghanistan that parallels with vietnam and with the tape actually said. So the tape really remain hidden in plain sight until i finally took the advice that was given to my own students on countless occasions go back and check the audio for yourself. Could you please admits the next slide. After the coup lodge made plans to return to the u. S. For consultations with kennedy. Now that wouldve been a conversation i wish we had a tape of. Instead while on route lot learns that kennedy himself was killed just three weeks after the q at the end of novembe november 1963 went lodge arrived in washington he was the First American diplomats that president johnson met with. Johnson as you see here in the photo was still using the Vice President s office and the executive office building. And instead of huddling with Kennedy Lodge paid his final respects to him and Arlington National sanitary and he commenced lodge estate in vietnam here with rusmac in america and george ball everyone looking fairly somber given the recent events. And i think lodge at that point knew he was going to find no easy way out of the vietnam. And his commitment to kennedy needed him to stay there. So where does that leave us tonight . And with this book and with lodges legacy . I think Henry Cabot Lodge junior started up earlier saying he was an enigma. He really did little to redressed such misunderstandings else will many other mysteries in the book during his lifetime. Instead he left his secrets as personal papers at the massachusetts Historical Society including many memoranda to himself or his personal files. Colonel and even diary entries. Handwritten notes scattered throughout different portions of his papers and covering different phases of his career. You know of simply fortunate to have been the first researcher to utilize them for the full value. It is about a four year process to go to these boxes. The result is a book i cannot entirely say i remove the mystery, move the enigma behind the man. I did my best with the canvas i had available rate as all authors know i can and can relate to i had a book contract for one or 50000 words, submitted a manuscript of 283,000 words and what you see in the initial book as a compromise it ended up around 2000 words. That said, certainly new evidence will continue to come to light one day. What id written is final the final word. I was going to say this is all we know. In that sense in closing, our understanding of lodges life and times with the appearance of this first full biography that really tries to simply restore him to the place in history that he always occupied, which is itself the essence of history. Its never really over. Thank you. Sue back that was a fascinating talk about a really indepth study. I just want to let the audience know they can use the q a function of the bottom of the screen and type in a question will try to get to as many questions as we can. There were some that were already submitted while luke was speaking. John wrote, i am interested in whether there is a vietnamese or vietnameseamerican scholarship on the activity of harry cabot lodge junior thats maybe a first question to start with there any such scholarship . Guest there are. I incorporate the vietnamese perspective a little bit in this book. Although it still a u. S. Senator to study. One of the other things i found in the archives the vietnamese archives were the president s handwritten notes written during the coup written debunker of the palace but i reproduce those in the appendix of the book. But of course on balance it is the focus of American Life it is a u. S. Centric study. I would say the best scholars that i would refer to are also the ones who do know vietnamese thoroughly parts dollars like peter at san diego state, scholars like lynn at columbia, scholars like ed muller at dartmouth college. Those are certainly the books i use in my classes are for my students. They are very readable very downtoearth. And go a lot further than this book in terms of covering the vietnamese perspective. We have a couple people have raised their hand in the past sometimes and people raise their hand its because they are next. Actually i cannot i dont have the power to do that at this moment. So perhaps sara could perhaps allow naomi to speak . And while we are on that there is a question. Could you explain a little bit about who the lodge family in massachusetts for those who may not be from massachusetts customer asked him extra can start with that one. So the opening chapters more or less a chronological approach to lodges life. In the early chapter of the book i talked about the family background. There are a number of different types of establishment families i think new york certainly has their own, philadelphia has, boston has some many are linked to other colonies. There to distinguish families of their own intermarried the 1h century. And kind of joined as one. Kind of creating a political dynasty in the first real namesake of the dynasty was Henry Cabot Lodge that is the grandfather of the subject i have written about he was the Woodrow Wilson nemesis of one of the reasons the United States did not join the league of nations. So this family in summarizing and concluding is really one of these oldest families in the nation in terms of Public Service to the nation. I think six senators, governors, cabinet members going back to even before the constitution was finished. And so all they have exited politics the beginning in the mid 20th century kind of had an almost unbroken line from a nations founding up until that point. Its really interesting. Even if youre not interested in colonial history but this is clearly a subject i could of got lost in without better focus for my editor would have probably never finish this book. It is so interesting to read more about them. Naomi if youd like to ask a question . Guest wonderful presentation. My note she was its a fantastic representation what was around lodge. And investigations and they dont have a clear sense. What if they could say what lodge was actually doing in your words in a nutshell . For so many administrations its very rare so many diverse ministrations to want someone present in the inside of those rooms were decisions are being made. And it is mysterious to me that so many different administrations would want him in those rooms. What was he doing . Guest that is a great question. We left that photo up for a long time. Have a prominent democrat and that prominent republican. And the idea that mightve been the occasion for that such a sensitive discussion is hard to relate to. And on top of that i think most ambassadors. It seems like most ambassadors with political appointees. Are not representing the nation because the Foreign Policy expertise or because they understand the american policy. Once i think theyre still a number of mysteries here about this tape. I think my conclusion ultimately is kennedy trusted lodge because he knew where he came from. He knew that lodge did not have a history of leaking. Kennedy knew that in the 1950s lodge served a very sensitive role for eisenhower as the u. S. Ambassador to the un. Serving the full two terms of the eisenhower presidency in addition to become a political advisor for eisenhower. That is a term at the un no one has exceeded before or since. Before he was involved in some of the most difficult discussions of the cold war rate and had i found some of the records had cia officials at the un that helps and researches speeches encounters of the propaganda the General Assembly of the soviet spray think lodge was trusted. They knew where he came from, he is not someone who wanted to leak or betray a confidence. They had no record of that is not part of the background. Nice to be a revolving door Factfinding Missions to vietnam. Seems like every couple of months Factfinding Mission to vietnam, theyd return that have dramatically different conclusions about the wars going well, the wars not going well. I think for kennedy appointing lodge there are many reasons to were appointed but he was a republican may be blamed but something went wrong pres a journalist by training but he could talk the talk of the journalists and david halbersta halberstam, and brown. And get a better handle on the press relations. I think really in the end calculation, pointing the lodge was a bit like appointing a permanent factfinder. This is someone to be very discreet hayward port only when asked. And could kind of feet met kennedy boots on the ground sort of speak. Things are certainly more we could talk about. Lots of communication between lodge and kennedy in the fall between the occasion of the tape in the ultimate coup on the first in seconds. I think that is the origin for lodges appointments in saigon in the first place. Thank you very much. Sue back so peter did think lodges responsibility for this controversy will grandfather papers influence his preservation and control of his own papers . Guest interesting question. And so here its almost like it folds upon itself. And lodge through his own life is revisiting the lives of his grandfather. You know, i tried to avoid doing a deep dive into lodges grandfather. Just because her so much material to go through. Fifty years of materials and vibration hoover to reg and part lots of other archives. Lots of archives in many countries. I do believe its august something. What you see is there are about two periods when lodge started to reflect. One is arguably the 50s when his become custodian or co custodian of his grandfathers papers. Still a lot of correspondence it is sold papers within serve access control, researchers access to his grandfathers papers. Dealing with criticism that occurred with this grandfather sought requesting to pick up some boxes to look at and study over the weekend and set a return the next week. You start to see the daytoday business of managing another large archival collection. Secondly the 1970s when lodges start to slow down hes only sort of working parttime as a parttime ambassador over the nixon ford years. You see them again thinking about history, writing a lot of notes to self. A lot of memorandum for the fil file. Copies of this papers end up in his own papers but i think ultimately what he tries to address during his lifetime, never successfully where the charges of isolation lizard that his grandfather was prone to during the league of nations. Ultimately that haunted junior during his own lifetime. I think in the book i ultimately document is quite a bit away from the neo isolationist views international views following his service in world war ii. But no, think the question is exactly right as custodian of the papers. They are very revelatory in some cases. Papers are papers. Some things end up in the fireplace something in it being retained by the family. But for what they are, i think they are an awfully good collection. Smyrna think we have about time for one more question. Compared to your other works is a tape buried on purpose . Not excited in his career i said i promise to read the book. I never planned to write this book. I am someone who tries, really tries to keep my own views out of my own writing. You know we all have politics and voted certain way as we will assume. I see archives and records almost like a scientific proces process. Meet for me when i discovered this tape discover is the wrong word. I found hiding in plain sight. Its certainly possible others listen to it, it has not been published prior to an effort you cannot find a transcript of it anywhere. As soon as i thought i knew it the tape meant, as soon as it thought i knew kennedys instructions, my entire effort turned 180 degrees to disproving this. In trying to find evidence of say the opposite. So that is what took so many years to meditate on the tape and think about it. As i said i did the wrong thing but what i should have done is write it claiming and say this is the big finding. But instead i really wanted to prove it wrong. I wanted to prove, to find evidence to the contrary talking to family members talking to Administration Officials talking to those who work for lodge, looking for every record, peace of paper i could lay my hands on. Did he go to the final are in the book . So look im lucky i had to have a job that i love her to get to do this. It doesnt feel like work on a lot of days. But it does take an enormous amount of effort to try to get this right for it i will leave it to leaders to see if i did. Thank you so much for sharing your work with us. 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