Transcripts For CSPAN2 Heritage 20240704

Like this americans can see democracy at work citizens are truly informed. It informed straight from the source. Unfiltered, unbiased, word for word from the Nations Capital to wherever you are. If the opinion that matters the most. This is what democracy looks like. Cspan, powered by cable. Pleasere welcome bridget, director of the Heritage Foundations Assignment Center american studies. [applause] welcome to 2023 russell kirk petrie the diocese of winona, rochester, minnesota. Have the task of introducing a task made difficult by the fact that his publication, media presence, teaching and leadership exemplify faith in reading. Have become a regular campaign gets picked instructing us in the gospels, the old testament, catholic social thought, the meaning of great literature and philosophy, contemporary culture and, of course, the finer points of catholic doctrine. So tonight Bishop Barronil will address the topic of the breakdown of the detail filion equilibrium here prior to his 2022 appointment as bishop of winonarochester he had served for seven years as auxiliary bishop for the archdiocese los angeles. Bishop barron was also the rector the director of mundelein seminary in chicago where he taught for several years, but most know him as the foremost evangelist of roman catholicismsm in america. Globally even. He is without is then fire catholic ministries which uses quote media both old and new to proclaim the gospel of christ. On that front Bishop Barrons work iss nothing short of spectacular. Isn awardwinning and part sers catholicism offers an amazing presentation of the church through its sacraments states come church, architecture and history for he is a member when amazon bestselling author. He has published numerous books, essays and articles on theology and the Spiritual Life. Bishop barrons website word on fire. Org reaches millions of people eachos year and he is one of the most followed catholics on social media. Is youtube videos have been viewed over 90 million times. But what is noteworthy in this regard is the quality and manner of his engagement. He is at the forefront of the effort to reconnect the socalled nuns, persons of no religious faith to christianity. A segment of americans that grows every year, a phenomenon not limited to roman catholicism, and one that is slowly changing our country, and not for the better. What Bishop Barron stresses is that the most significant cause of the greek affiliation of nones that the motive taught seriously their faith to begin with. Translation, this is an important business peer nhf and belief and not hostility towards christianity, Bishop Barron urges the recovery of the church fathers, thehe bible, the livesf the saints, classical philosophy and literature, and the record of living in the church that stretches over centuries. Bishop barron response to the new atheists that he agrees with them in terms of the god they dismissed and their arguments. He too doesnt believe in a god who is merely the highest be on the topmost item in the universe, a god that succeeds by making us his puppets or demanding irrational belief. God, Bishop Barron argues, is transcended, the creator through whom everything comes to e be in the world. God is the sheer act of being itself. The fear is that god wants to dominate us and diminish us to controlling us. He asks, what if its the exact opposite . Bishop barron repeatedly quote the second century state, saint irenaeus, quote, the glory of god is made fully alive we become what we love and what we praise, right brace manifest itself in a well ordered, joyful, and flourishing life. In the recent interview with jordan peterson, Bishop Barron was repeatedly asked by so many in the western countries continue to fall away from religious belief, including catholicism. Why are you in . Peterson inquired. And bishop responded that his sense of mission in life was fired for him at an early age. The culprits were Thomas Aquinas cosmological argument for the existence of god and Thomas Mertons wonderful book seven story mountain. In their own way these authors had summoned him to a foundation for his life. The third part of Bishop Barrons answer offers the example of father walter cheswick, the Young American priest who20 spent 20 years in soviet prison camps. 15 of those years in siberia. As a young seminary student he heard pope pius the 11th call, quote, for heroes to go into russia and he decided to train for that mission. But following that call led to severe consequences for him. And in this book, with god and russia, father cheswick said the two decades he spent in prison involved accepting gods will and doing what do he could pick he decided to quote the christ and bear the sufferings around the eblast doctrine last russia when he finally evacuated her but we too need heroes to go into many areas, pursuit to save the country, to recreate the world with the six renewal. And there isct no one better to instruct us in that call in Bishop Barron. Welcome. [applause] to what god bless you. Thank you for that lovely introduction. Thanks for reading me so carefully. The years and drawing out the themes that really are central. I think to my to my writing and teaching. I want to apologize in advance for my somewhat scratchy voice. I mean, what hope are the last stages of a bad cold. And i just got through an all day meeting the usccb. We started at 830. We ended at five. So this is a relief from that experience of now that im bishop of diocese especially, i dont have time to prepare more serious lectures. I, i try to take maybe one or two a year that i can really sink my teeth. And when i received this invitation, i said, thats what i really want to do. Because of my respect for the Heritage Foundation and my deep respect for russell kirk someone that ive studied and whose writings used for many, many years. So it inspired me to do some work on this, on this paper. As everybody in this knows, the issue of the relationship between liberal democracy and the Catholic Church has long been a vexed one. If one consults catholic leaders in the 19th century very much including the popes who dominate the second half of this century, namely pius the ninth and leo the 13th, more refined, vigorous condemnations of and the liberal order. Moreover, if one surveyed the writings of leading figures within the american policy of that same century, one would discover sharply worded critiques catholicism as a system alien to the american way of life. For a particularly good example, take a look at. Ulysses s grants appraisal in 1875 that catholicism prove more divisive in america than the confederacy itself had been. And if one harbors any doubts whether, this attitude survived well into the 20th century. When he look further than the ruminations of Woodrow Wilson and the warnings of a slew of cultural at the prospect of a catholic president in 1960, at the end of the beginning of the 20th century, a number of catholic ecclesiastic, including james gibbons, the archbishop of baltimore, john ireland, the archbishop of saint paul, commenced to advocate for rapturous between catholicism and american democracy. Subsequently, toward the middle of the last century, catholic academics such as john murray and john ryan began articulate in a more rationally manner the points of contact between classical, catholic, political philosophy and the principles of modern liberalism. The ruminations, both ecclesiastical and academics, often around the importance of tolerance and religious liberty and. Indeed, the vatican to document dignity. This humanae largely penned by cortney murray, made the american to the rapport between objective religious truth and freedom of conscience, part of the official teaching of the catholic. Then, in the years following vatican two, a plethora intellectual players within the Catholic Academy in the United States emerged to continue and deepen this line of thought. One thinks of george weigel, michael novak, George Robert sirico, and perhaps especially of richard john neuhaus. Their influence upon saint john paul. The second became unmistakably in the great popes 1991 encyclical letters a. Z. Moss, which was simultaneously celebration of leo the 13th groundbreaking rare novarum and a thoughtful consideration of the of 1989. In the course that letter, john paul enthusiastically endorsed the market economy and form of liberal democracy that obtained generally in the west. Now if we look more deeply into the arguments presented by this school of thought, refer todays fusion ist since it appreciates the tight connection, catholicism and political modernity. We notice a number key themes. First, the insists that the liberal democratic emphasis upon the dignity of individual is unintelligible from biblical assumptions. Thomas jefferson implied much when he said in the prolog to the declaration that all people are quote endowed by their creator with certain inalienable rights. If rights are granted by the state. They can be withdrawn when its convenient for the state to do so. If theyre a function of cultural consensus, they can disappear when that consensus even essos history. Of course provides numerous examples of precisely those moves. Furthermore, equality, one of the most foundational liberal political principles is similarly grounded in a theological vision of things. For as the ancient political theorist with such clarity, we human beings are in almost every regard, radically unequal in size, strength, beauty, moral virtue, etc. Point of fact, the political systems proposed by both plato and aristotle are predicated upon the assumption of irreducible among the members of the polis. For plato, everyone in the city falls into one of three altogether distinct social classes. For aristotle, only a small of property intelligent males are permitted to partake of authentically life. Once again, jefferson gives away the game when claims as selfevident. The assertion quote all men are created equal. Despite our enormous inequality in practically every respect we indeed all equally children god created by his and destined to share eternal life. Him take god out of the and it becomes extremely difficult to defend this crucial principle of, a democratic polity. Finally, both the rule of law and the notion of limited government, biblical inspiration. Time and again, the prophets remind the israelite kings of their obligation to follow torah, and that those potentates stand, whether they like it or not, under the of god. This means that the law has primacy over, the whims and private designs of anyone including and especially kings more to it, the sovereignty of god implies that the scope and power of any rule are strictly limited hemmed in by the demands of, the moral law. We might refer in this context to the magnificent of the corruption of kings found the speech given by the prophet samuel the fusion have long argued persuasively. I think that the myriad restrictions placed Civic Leaders within a democratic polity, as well as the system of checks and balances are predicated. Finally upon these biblical assumptions. Now all these observations lead me back to the beginning of my talk. If all this is true, indeed i think it is, why did so many reflective people . Am i . Do just bigots . I mean, there were plenty of bigots, both sides of the divide. But there are also a lot of reflective people who felt that the two systems, the catholic and americans, were incompatible. Well, to provide a fully adequate response to that question would take me far beyond the confines of this paper. But permit me to explore just a few angles. Antiliberal catholic theorist would have drawn attention to the roots of liberalism in thought of Thomas Hobbes and john locke, and would have remarked how those thinkers represented a radical rupture from the classically catholic understand ing of both the political and moral orders. In this regard, of course, hobbes particularly instructive, consciously breaking with the long tradition of political philosophy that preceded him. Hobbes endeavor to articulate a science of politics like inform and purpose to the physical sciences that were beginning to emerge in his time. This amounted to a setting aside of causality and questions of moral aims in an embrace of efficient causality alone in the political order. Accordingly, set out to explore what actually motivates beings to act as they do in reductionistic conclusion was that the efficient cause of our behavior is at bottom, i should say the efficient causes of our behavior are at bottom. The accompanying the desire to preserve and to avoid violent death. This quotation from chapter 11 of leviathan signals the sea change that hobbes represents. Im quoting directly from this the original english of leviathan, the felicity of this life not in the repose of a mind satisfied, for there is no such finish ultimate, ultimate aim nor suman bonhomme greatest good as is spoken of in the books of the old moral philosophers, close quote the complete relative izing of truth and goodness in the hobbesian program. Clear. Furthermore in this passage from the sixth chapter of the violent and im quoting again whatsoever here is the object of mans appetite or that it is which he for his part, call with good and the object of his hate and aversion. He call it evil, close quote. Whereas classical politics was predicated upon keen sense of objective, moral value and indeed a highest good which all people aspire by nature. Hobbesian politics was predicated upon the preservation of biological life. Now, any collectivity of individuals, all motivated, a selfish desire to live and to avoid violent death will necessarily come into conflict. And the result will be, in hobbess famous phrase, a life that is, quote, solitary nasty, brutish and short. Close quote. It is to avoid this intolerable situation that human beings resolve to enter a social contract by which they surrender their rights and prerogatives to the leviathan and state the practically Unlimited Authority granted to the sovereign. Paradoxically, in the selfinterest of each party to the contract that was at least hobbess assumption. Once again, hobbes would insist that the sovereign remains utterly indifferent to matters of moral excellence or, spiritual attainment. Rather his purpose is to protect warring individuals from one another. And this touches upon a deeper matter, namely hobbes, is unambiguous assumption that patchy practically the entire tradition of political philosophy that came before him we are not by nature politico or social. We are only artificially and by means of a contractual contrivance. Relatedly, were not natural, good or ordered to friendship. Just the contrary, the entire hobbesian program rests upon the conviction that our natural state is one of utter selfinterest and hostility to our neighbors. Thus, in his pithy formula, the state of nature is the state of war. Now, hobbes, his program was in essentials adopted by john locke. The locke softened it in many. For instance he opined that a kind of natural moral law even in the pre political state of nature. And he held that one exert that state by means of two contracts. Not one is in harms, thus allowing, for the possibility of rebelling against a corrupt state without reverting ipso into the state of war that was decisive for jefferson. But the amoral 90 teleological conception of life remained in place. Thus, for locke, rights are. But a function of our desire to preserve life, avoid violent death. It is language. We have the right to those things that we cannot not desire. Namely, life itself. And its necessary covenants, liberty and property. Any of a transcendent good to which human life is properly or of a common good that goes beyond the mere physical wellbeing of the members. The Political Society is the hobbesian manner missing . The government, which secures these rights, remains if i may put it this way, protective rather than directive the citation from letter on toleration is apposite. Im quoting now from locke. The commonwealth seems to to be a society of men constituted only. And thats his his own italics. Only for the procuring, preserving, advancing of their own civil interests. Civil interests. I call life liberty and health of the body and the possession of outward things such as money, lands, houses furniture and the like. Close. The lockean suspension of the metaphysical good becomes even clearer when we venture of lockes explicitly political writing and turn to his epistemological masterpiece, an essay on human understanding. In this text he lays out revolutionary idea of will as primarily an active power of selfdetermination. Whereas, on the traditional a good outside will prompts that faculty respond, unlocks the will, has primacy, and remains undetermined by anything outside of itself. Heres his account and quoting again for that was determines the general power of to this or that particular direction is nothing but the itself x exercising the power that it has in particular way. Close quote in a radical departure from the standard interpretation, locke holds that the direct object, the will is not a thing but an action, namely its own. Rather than appreciating the will in the to mystic manner as extending itself into reality, the being lured by the good locke effectively shrinks its area of concern. Heres his own extremely clear and illuminating formulation quote the will or power of volition is conversant about nothing but our own actions terminates there and no further close quote. So concerned is he to maintain the control that the will has over itself. Locke argues that the self quote that only begins its act of will from itself alone. But that movement likewise ends exclusively in the self as the wills proper object. Close quote. Were a continent away from from someone like aristotle aquinas in that whatever connection eventually obtains with the world outside of the dynamics of the will remains secondary and extrinsic subordinate the sovereignty and sufficiency of the choosing self. No, this treatment of the thought of locke me to quote the man for whom this lecture series is named. Throughout his russell kirk remained disquieted by the manner in which locke departed from the classical political tradition. Instead being created in the image of god. Man is unlocks interpretation simply. Economicus. And his purpose is not to do the will of god or pursue the common good, but rather to protect his property. Im quoting kirk. There is, he concluded. No warmth and lock and sense of consecration. And utility. Not love is the motive of lockes individual ism. Close quote. Thats russell kirk. So what was concerning to many catholic theorists of the 19th century. And again, not just anti modern, you know, the bigots was precisely this hobbesian lockean reductionism regarding political life which they saw on display in the most important of the founding documents of our country. Now, without for a moment, the observations made above regarding biblical overtones is difficult not to see that the prolog to jeffersons remains a distinctively modern text. First, the conventional artificial of the political enterprises defended, as well as fundamentally hobbesian view of the rights that government is invented to defend. To be sure jefferson is adjusted the lockean of life, liberty and property to liberty and the pursuit of happiness. But that adjustment only confirms the manner in which jefferson departs from classical political thought for the Great Western philosophic tradition. The determination of what constitutes objective happiness was perhaps the preoccupation. Think aristotles treatment of virtue in relation to us monia in the near conviction ethics. Think of platos subtle phenomenology of the good in a variety of his dialogs. Think of aquinas as exhaustive analysis of beatitude or happiness at the commencement of the previous a good day of the summa. In all three of those thinkers, the object of good was construed as the determining factor in the establishment of a just social order. But in jefferson, a typically modern way, all this left to the selfdetermination of the individual subject, the pursuit of happiness rather than happiness itself. Taking pride of place. These worries of 19th and 20th century figures are taken up. Several catholic scholars today who question the philosophical underpinnings of the american founding. One thinks of, among others, formule, patrick, deneen and dc. All these philosophers that the distinctively modern or metaphysics informs the political speculations of the founders compromises, the practical arrangements that they put in place. So the question naturally arises who has this at least relatively the right . The fusion whom i was praising earlier with complete. Or these neo integrals who might be more sensitive. The issues ive just been raising is american style liberalism with or repugnant to catholic christianity. No adequate answer to that question would. Take me again far beyond the confines of this presentation. But at the risk sounding a tad facile, i would venture to respond both. My position is that the american polity is fundamentally moderate in form and inspiration, but remains conditioned by certain deeply held religious assumptions. Its a hobbesian lockean system, but with overtones of the christian worldview that still haunted the minds, the founders, and perhaps more importantly shaped the souls of the First American citizens, said odds are equilibrium between a modern conception and but. But yet this religious undertone, which leads me to the person im i name this lecture for. Its almost a cliche to point it out, but no one managed to pick his way. This intellectual thicket more precept tively or creatively than the 19th century french diplomat and political philosopher alexis talk show. After an extensive tour of the jackson United States in the mid 1830s, tocqueville shared what he had discovered about the peculiarly american manner of reconciling liberalism with an ardent religiosity. His conclusion, in a word, is that the latter effectively makes possible the former or better provides it with an animating purpose. A handful of citations will sum up his argument. Heres a first one quote the americans combine in the notions of religion and liberty. So intimately in their minds that its impossible to make them conceive of one without the other. Close quote and next quote it must never be forgotten that religion gave birth to angloamerican society. In the United States, religion is commingled with all the habits of the nation and all the feelings of patriots, whence it derives a peculiar force. Close quote. And third. So religion which among the americans never directly part in the government of society must be considered as the first of their political institutions. For it does not give them taste for liberty. It singularly facilitates their use it. Close quote as a very to me, i that last quote is the most illuminating for articulates the idea of ordered liberty or freedom not an end in itself which you see in the epistemology and anthropology as directed to a moral good meal. A sip of water. Was there a water . Poets over here the table tonight. I called, keeping it a little bit. Tocquevilles saw that the proposal of the moral good is the business of a liberal government, which retains its typically modern in that regard, but is offered to the society, the administrations of the churches and religious institutions that pervade commonwealth. We might say that, in his view, the vibrant of america served as a corrective and complement to the hobbesian nature of the liberal project, rounding its pointed edges. Though there are many concrete examples, this dynamic that could be cited. Suffice to say that the two greatest social transfers in american history, namely the end of slavery and the end of racial segregation, were both prompted. Religious people drawing their moral inspiration clearly from the text of the bible. The suggestion of the good in both cases did not come as. It were from above, from the secular authority, but from below, from a religious least saturated culture. Now all these reflections bring us to us. The most significant cultural phenomenon of our time. What i would characterize as the collapse of this tocqueville in equilibrium the last roughly 60 years have witnessed a disturb unraveling of the political the religious texture of our society unprecedented in american history. And indeed, i would say in all of history as Charles Taylor is indicated, it would have been unthank bowl for some to say in 1500 to believe that happiness could be had. Apart from a reference to god. But now nonbelief god and the acceptance of a completely this worldly frame of reference for Human Flourishing are widespread. The mainstream protestant in the us are in freefall and cathar ism, to be frank, is not far behind its numbers, relatively strong, only due to immigration. In 1970, roughly 3 of americans would have described themselves as having no religious affiliation. But today, that figure has risen to 26 . It still higher to 40 . Among those 30, though, these trends were emerging 30 years ago. Commentator was at that time tended to reassure us that though fewer and fewer people were church services, the basics of religion, belief in god, the afterlife, existence of the soul, basic moral principles, etc. Remained in place. The sociological work of father Andrew Greeley from the seventies and 1980s is an extremely instructive, but in accord with the will hertzberg cut flower as principal. All of these convictions one depressed native from concrete religious practice and institutional affiliation, endured for a time, but then commenced very rapidly to dry up. And as tocqueville, excuse me, would have foreseen, this waning has had enormous political and cultural implications. Permitting, the more severe hobbesian structure of our polity to assert itself. One of the most conspicuous consequences the collapse of institutional religion, is joseph ratzinger, Pope Benedict 16th, called famously the dictate ship of relativism or conviction that there is no objective for morality and certainly no summum bonhomme, which would serve to regulate human thought and activity. See how like hobs that sounds doesnt it but reasserted today strongly absent this normativity, the freedom of the individual comes to generate value instead imitating and appropriating for oneself the objective goods of the natural and moral orders, the sovereign self creates a personal good and cultivates a personal truth. How familiar that sounds, in the words of karl truman. Mimesis imitation has given way to places creation instead of and incorporating the great objective values i now create them out of the sovereignty of my own. Again, that lockean overtones of the nature of the will that isnt lured by the good outside itself, but terminates in its own activity. Its reassert itself. One of the clearest artistic expressions of this viewpoint was the film that won the Academy Award for best picture a few years ago called the shape water. The plot of film. Because, believe it or not, was a young woman who falls, love and then has sexual relations with a creature half human and half fish. You remember the villain of the story, of course, was a believing christian, presented as a boorish hypocrite. But the title gives the game. The only shape there is is the shape of water, which has no form except the one that we choose to give it. Though this understanding held sway in halves and in a more mitigated in luck, it was largely covered by the widespread and deeply held religious convictions of americans prior to 1960. And though this is not immediately obvious to most the subjective assertion of value, conduce is automatically to the war of all. Against all. Why . For theres no common of reference, no transcend instead of norms to which all people in can submit themselves, but autonomous individuals atoms with no natural affinity. One another. If find yourself doubting whether the state of war obtained is go any time of the day or night on twitter or practically any social media site that allows for comments arguments about moral, intellectual matters have largely disappeared from these massively venues because authentic argument has to be based upon sense of shared assumptions and values. All thats left is insults at one another from opposing trenches as numerous studies indicated. This breaks my heart that young people who frequent social sites are so often beleaguered, depressed and suffer from something akin to post stress disorder. It further supported my thesis in the absence of religion, the hubs zionism of the american experiment is reassert itself. I would draw your attention to one of the principal preoccupations of young people today. Namely, safe spaces guaranteed by municipal or government authority. What seems to preoccupy many is once again the protective rather than directed purpose of authority. I mean, dont give me direction. Thats up to me to decide. You just better protect while i engage in selfdirection. Right. Its not at all surprising that many studies have indicated how young people in our country increasingly are suspicious of freedom of speech increasingly open to more powerful government regulation. Two basic tenets of hobbesian. So whats the solution. Its facile enough to say that we should go back. The cultural consensus that obtained prior to 1961, which was an instance created through a plethora of mediating. It would at the very take time to build back that structure if that was even possible. I might suggest the first step to recovery of the sense, especially in our young people of the objectively valuable opposed to the merely subjectively satisfying in using this language and borrowing the terminology of dietrich von hildebrand, one of the most significant catholic philosophers of the last century, is example of the merely subjective satisfying hildebrand, frequently proposed the receiving of an unjust to fide complement. Though kind words typically produce a rush of good feeling in the one who receives them. There is, in the case of such a complement nothing of substance behind them. They merely flatter the ego and leave it unchanged and unsure challenged those empty words. Simply find their place within the psychological structure, the ego, and do no significant spiritual work. But the objectively valuable. Confronts the one who perceives it and changes him really changing his psyche and subjectivity. Dantes comedy or beethoven, seventh symphony or shark cathedral or the moral of Maximilian Kolbe are not merely subject to the satisfying, ludicrous to say that. Rather, the sheer density of their objective value arrests us claims us, and sends us on as evangelists. Their truth and beauty. They they arrest the will. They lure the will, they direct and send it. How . But were stuck in the little welllighted space of our own ego. Created own value. What a dull space. Deliver the objectively valuable bricks breaks through the carapace of. That sort of selfregard in the presence of such values. Were like the great israelite prophets were placed in the passive voice. We dont so much speak our own truth, but weve heard word of the lord and connection to god im making here is not incidental, decorative for objective and the epistemic moral and esthetic orders arrange naturally in hierarchies. Which means as Thomas Aquinas saw so clearly they are named and understood in relation to that which is of highest possible value. The supreme truth, goodness and beauty. When paul introduces himself to the romans in his famous epistle, he characterizes himself as quote called and sent to be an apostle, close quote. A higher power has claimed him and commissioned him. In a word, the objectively valuable gives the lie to the culture, selfassertion and selfaffirmation. The so dominates today. Therefore, i think if we want to restore Something Like the tocqueville in equal librium, which gives a liberal democracy its moral and spiritual, we have to resist the shape of water and must, with confidence, enjoy introduce our young people to the infinitely more interesting of objective value. God bless all. Thanks for listening. Thanks. Bishop barron. I think they like what you had to say. Yeah, i appreciate them much. No, thanks. Thanks again for being here at heritage for for your witness. And i want to home in on one of the key parts of your address. Have some questions fo one of the key parts of your address, answer questionsir for you that are only onlyd but ill be abusive later. Objectively valuable. We spent a lot of time here at heritage in addition to the work we do in policy helping other institutions, not just policy institutions, get started, expand, scale as a business friends like to say. The question for you and s america have a healthy enough institutional to cultivate what is objectively valuable . I worry about us and especially with the Educational Institutionsns because if they e predicated upon this sort of dominant subjective as our culture theyre not going to draw people into that world. Or if they just accept this view that we create value. I think a great teacher someone who again breaks into your subjectivity and rearranges it at offers you something. In the introduction you made reference to two thomas to me very important as a kid, Thomas Merton and Thomas Aquinas. Both of those represent the a breakthrough, something new, in my consciousness. That lifted me up out of the loop i was in. Thats what our education institutions have to do. I think of all the institution, a great advocate of that we should just think of government of the people but government yes a slew of media institutions whose basic purpose is to inculcate objectiveet value here whether thats a local business organization,lo a local kiwanis club or whatever it is they are meant to inculcate value of some kind. Do we have the strength to do it . I dont know but thats what we have to do. Ill press on that if you dont mind. Go ahead. Because we also like to think about when we have gatherings like this, people leave, they are inspired which another will be because of your comments. What do we do as individuals . I mean really, pressing on this, tonight we when our friends e home come tomorrow morning when theyre up in their thinking Bishop Barron mages really good philosophical, historical arguments. But this is what ive been tasked to do, to revitalize institutional life the press is what does it look like for us daytoday . I think parents are teaching your kids and being deeply aware of as a set of the epistemic and the moral and the aesthetic rounds and to introduce them to those realms to make sure of your own school boards, make sure your schools are doing that their vote for politicians that understand the dimension of public life and avoid a merely sort of purely hobbesian understanding of things that i think lyrically, socially, educationally addressed institutions and make sure their trading in real objective value. If i may come a look at a hard question for any of us who care about institutions. Are the institutions, thinking primarily about schools, that are too far gone . Could be some of them. Not to put you on the spot. There could be at a friends of mine who found her schools and theres no movement in our country. Think of the chester academies in the catholic world, people who have taken upon themselves to admit new Educational Institution and have done a good job and it appeared raise the money and hired the faculty and administrators and organize them institutionally. So i admire that. Instead of complaining do something. And elect, remember Cardinal George of chicago who died what about seven years ago was sort of a mentor to me. As a major archbishop of the country you get complaints of the temperedha whiteness of the church doing more . Whatssa going on . Cant we . He would say you elected these people. He would say, you elected them. So now take public responsibility in your political life and get better people elected. If de tocqueville were here hubert my gist of that. Is speaking of him i would love the concept that you really push on the equilibrium and it causes me to ask this question. It seems as if we have two problems, among others, the degradation of civic culture and the deterioration of political life broadly, what we feel often here at heritage and scanning the audience people from entering the Nations Capital doing political work and sort of an aristotelian sense, the collision of those or the combination of those things seem like were almost in a helpless spiral. And is the only answer out of that, or the first only answer out of that, Spiritual Life . Is anything in the secular world that can initiate that revitalization . Sure appeared that when youre in touch with moral values come so people were in the world of business or finance or entertainment, the cultural realm, what are the moral values to obtain . Not just making money or its not just advancing my repetition but what are the moral values . Vatican ii met for catholics talks about the role of the lady is to sanctify the world. So its not the bishops job to do the. Bishops job as a teacher to sanctify and into sand great catholic business leaders, great catholic lawyers, great catholic writers giv a great catholic politicians who are not incidentally catholic but they are catholic at the heart of what they do. And every time you make a moral choice, john paul two said that. You are doing something good and also making yourself better. You are creating your own character in a way. So do something morally upright in whatever area of life youre in. Related to that is we have sort of forsaken philosophy and theology in the name of science. Disaster. Help us doth that. I say that solely because i see it all the time in young people. A scientism obtained by which i mean a reduction of all knowledge to the scientific form of knowledge. I love the scientist or the sciences came i would say exclusion they came from the heart of the church ultimately. The church ultimately. I love the site is but the site is can handle one dimension of reality. The Scientific Method can address a swath of reality but it leaves huge areas of experience and illuminated. Sites get to think about whathi makes a moral act good science cant tell you about what makes a city just pick they cant do anything but white or something rather thannt nothing. The scientists cant explain why there are objective intelligibility based upon the subject of objective intelligibility. Once you see that, groups open up and the trouble of scientism is a lot you again into the buffer itself of the little world i can manage the Scientific Method. But thats where the spiritual, the religious comes in. Region is not the closing of the mind. Its an opening of them i. Thats a great prejudice of a lot of m young people to save it to be religious means im superstitious, im turning away from science, im living in my own little fantasy world au contraire, religion is what opens you up. It opens you up to transcendent dimension. So scientism is doing great damage to young people i think in damaging their soul in very serious ways. Subject would encourage us, thinking about homework assignments come to make the distinction especially speaking to people inng the ever increasg category of not religiously, making the distinction between science and scientism which might open the possibility of a conversation to raise some of your additional points. Quite right here ask the matter questions. Why should the world be intelligible at all quick its a really puzzling question, and theres not one science that can answer the question because the sites depends upon it that you have to assume the world is radically intelligible. Where does that come from how do you explain that what einstein said the most incomprehensible thing about the world is that its comprehensible. Or its eugene witt near the vins article from 1960, theff unreasonable effectiveness of mathematics in the physical sciences he was a secular jew but in that article used the word miracle like nine times because it just struck him as so odd why would highlevel mathematics work so well in the physical work which it clearly does in this for Something Like real intelligibility, and less the one behind the world is Something Like a mathematician. To be legibly interesting questions. In my dialogue with atheists online i find when you get to those questions they get really uninterested real fast. Thats just the way it is. Just the way it is . That your answer,el just wait i . Icy religion is what teases you to as. Wider, higher perspectiv. What is your greatest Success Story . Either anecdotally or a larger group with atheists with people religiously unaffiliated a little more open to your message . I dont know if i have to pick one outto there just to get the bishops meeting of stop by a brother bishop . Right. He was an atheist and now hes a bishop. [laughter] you give it such hope, Bishop Barron. We have a ritual called the right of election where people come into the Catholic Church and theres this great gathering of the catechumens were coming in and took me aside and said three of the folks toby they were atheists and they started listening to your videos and that brought them to the churc. Things like that, thats what makes me happy, give me a sense of achieving something worthwhile. House they genuinely and i know from other half of 20 noncatholics who were here at heritage and ive catholic friends in the audience they find and it would save us very gingerly bishop, thank you for that. Its motivatenk of other peopleo think that in addition to whatever theyre doing in the quoteunquote j job look at they do in social media to aid the cause . What an encouragement or somg some specific idea would you give . I wouldhe say get as much as you can come help people get out of this suffocating subjectivis subjectivism, that its growth in the course of my life its rampant today of i admit myself, i invent values, its up to me, i decide, i choose, dont tell me. I will vaguely tolerate you and you vaguely tolerate me and lets have a leviathan state to make sure wee dont kill each other i mean come what a horribly restricted view of life. Thats white and talk objective value. Languages in the aesthetic order of epistemic order, the moral order that is drawn you out of your own egotismd and make you feel alive and has lit your own soul on fire, didnt share that with people. Let them know about that theyre introducing to the world of dante or the world of whoever, youor know, beethoven or whoever has made your soul saying, and get help your argument people out of this more as that subjectivism is drawn into expert as a followup question to that do t you think that this trend toward a higher percentage of the american populace being religiously unaffiliated will continue apace, or do you sense and sort of searching for some openness here, that were going to turn the corner . I dont know about turning the corner. Looking for helpful thoughts. I will say this though. I started doing my evangelical work, what, about 20 years ago and you two pages come into being at that time. Its like 2007 and people have little video of my dog jumped off the roof. But i but i have this idea of if i just started talking about films or about books or ideas, and we didnt knowd that i have no idea if anybody would want spirit in the beginning we had like a couple hundred people watching and i was thrilled. A couple hundred people watch my video . But i started, comedy, people would comment that i would answer. Usually come up with something sharply critical remarks about meme or god about religion all right, all right, i got a toehold though. Youre out there somewhere and you made an argument so let me try to answer that argument. And its now what, 125 million views later. I think thats a hopeful sign that most people that use them some art about religious people that would watch my videos but a lot of them still would be i would say young people searching i dont know if you know this, this young fellowju like Christopher Hitchens junior. His name is alex oconnor and hes from oxford, young guy, very bright, very articulate and is called the cosmic skeptic, just an arch atheist or ive been out twice within know and above those conversations. I do think its great help if we can speak in a rationally compelling and passionately about the things of god. I think people will catch the fire with great cheerfulness. Be a happy warrior and just fight the good fight but thats what the lord has given us to do i think in our time. Thats the cult of our time that we are up against this wave of secularism appeared like when i was, i cited statistics for when i was scared early in the 1970s, 97 of our country what it said im religious. 3 back then said im not religious. Now 26 . 40 among young people. That make a huge difference in the society. I think thats the cult of our time is to fight that spur a couple of minor questions e wrap. The first is for the catholics in the audience especially scanned the audience for nothing against the people who are perhaps a little bit older than us, but heavily young audience. Many of them catholic. They will often ask me and other catholics on the capital, on capitol hillen why havent we bn taught the tradition of church . If we understand our catholic heritage it is everchanging, ever new. How do we reclaim that live that out . I know this is a question of great interest even for noncatholics in the audience. Yeah, and honestly i i lived through that and it i still remains a bit of a puzzle because we did it to ourselves to a large degree. You look atsi catholic even like six great books of catechism or theology. They are darned serious with your teaching sixth graders in 1945. What i got, as a first generation after vatican ii met i got banners and balloons. [laughter] but i did pick religion, no one took it seriously. It wasnt a serious subject and was presented that way to ask your us. Math and science history were kind of serious. Religion was like gym s class or you know, justse not a serious subject. My generation took that in and then they grew up as a realized this kind of silly superficial banners and balloons religion was not going to stink them and let go of it. I dont blame vatican ii at altered vatican ii was written by the smartest people in the mid 20th century catholicism. And their marvelous vatican ii documents but i do believe the postconciliar church that trained me, and you know god knows why they were trying to be irrelevant or they felt they would lose the young people. Just the opposite happened get them lost the people because they thought that way. But we are making a comeback. We really have i think turn a significant point in improving our religious instruction. Hi i fight it to this date we still dumb ourselves down and i been raising against dumb down catholicism for decadesf and epc it was a pastoral disaster pic if you look at the surveys, the asking people why did you leave . You know what the number one answer is, not sex abuse scandal picked the number would answer is i dont believe this but i dont like the doctors but they dont make sense to me. They were very, very poorly educated and thats on us. We did that to you, we met the enemy and its us. So a thats, im beating that, l the time, believe me, my brother bishops and i said at the Big Los Angeles religious education congress, 40,000 people and as it stopped on the get down and they allso cheered and i said well do something about it. [laughter] it was a room full of publishers and teachers and i said change it. People have a lot of faith in you. Last question for them to any audience. Th we have a lot of people online, and thank you for doing it, and that is this is a group of folks who work on capitol hill, and even though they are cheerful and helpful, they sometimes i can speak on their behalf, are on the brink of despair, meaning they care deeply about this great republic. They could give me about their faith. They care deeply even about people with whom they have political disagreements but on the best dateda its a grind, ad on a state its a lot worse what encouragement do you give us . Remember why you got into it but remember the earliest moment when you decide this is why i want to get into this life. I do i think Public Service is a beautiful form of life. And to shape the laws, look, law shapes the way which shapes how we choose. Law is always about morality. So youre in them around the business. If you are legislating. Remember what it was like, like why you got into this for the first time at what and r discovery i would argue if we focusing on the welcome you discovered the call of god it was god summoning you to something. S i colin thatik when i some days like a grind. So i would say to anybody here remember when god first calls you into this form of life and into something noble every day, do something morally, you know, noble every day and you will get through. Thank you for that. Well, we will conclude you momentarily. I will just say before we do that as we conclude, thank you for being here, thank those of you who join online its a great look out in this wonderful auditorium and see every seat field, and things out there and if you would just permit us a moment of courtesy as the bishop and i will head out and just give us a moment to do that but most important, please join me in thinking Bishop Robert barron. 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