Transcripts For CSPAN2 Jill 20240704

So thank you. Today id like to welcome a good friend jill watts. And she is. Shes conducted Much Research here at the library, and shes a Professor Emeritus of history at california state university, san marcos, where she teaches courses on black history and social and political history. United states. Shes written extensively, including hattie mcdaniel, black ambition, white hollywood, mae west, an icon in black and white and god. Harlem, usa, the Father Divine story, which has its own sort of local connections, in a way, jills book, the black homeowner, about which shell be speaking today, is the black cabinet the untold story of africanamericans in politics during the age of roosevelt. And shes recently served on the external Advisory Committee for our special exhibition, black americans civil rights and the roosevelts 1932 to 1962, which i encourage you all to go see jill speak 30 minutes or so and then shell take questions from the audience and. We sure are happy to have you here and to have jill here today as well. Now, you can tell bill has a cold. So good afternoon and good afternoon to thank you. Thank you so much for coming out on this. What turned out to be Beautiful Day and i just have a lot of thank use to give out a thanks to bill for the nice introduction and bill and cliff for the invitation here to come speak at the reading festival. Its just such an honor. Cliff contacted me first and i think it was february or march 2020. So its a little late. Is it . At first he was like, oh, well just see what happens. And then, as you all know, right. So it didnt happen. So im a little late, but im here and im really happy to be here. And actually, im happy to be anywhere actually, after what weve been through. So i also wanted to thank the archivists. Ive been here for a month working on another project, and i want to thank all the in the library for being so great. Thanks to the authors today for providing such a great day of learning. Its just been so exciting to hear the different ideas in the work and how they the they interface, but how they grow. The body of knowledge that we have. And thanks to you all for coming out to this festival and sharing this experience together in this historic space. I cant think of a more important time for us to come together in a dedicated event to history. Its just so important right now that we share our history and. We encourage each other in discovery more and more about our historical past and telling those stories honestly and up front. So thanks. Thanks to you all. I really appreciate that. Cliff asked me talk about the black cabinet, but he also asked me to talk about what im working on now, which is im working on a biography of Mary Mcleod Bethune. So. Its a lot to do, right . But what i was going to do is give you an overview of what i was trying to do in the black cabinet and then what is going to do is kind of take you a little bit back to Mary Mcleod Bethune. Shes central to the black cabinet. Its a portion of her life, though. It is a very large life and has made a lot of contributions. But to give you this and i think if if you can if you havent, go see the exhibit because youll see how this articulates with the exhibit. That exhibit is so important and so significant. So i hope you make time to be able to go over to the exhibit if you bought tickets there. I think theyre good for two days. I hope thats true. So. So, so give you an overview of the book, then ill introduce bethune to you and the black cabinet and then ill take you another step back and talk about how the black community evolved. And then ill wrap up with kind of a record of the victories and the losses for the black cabinet. And im kind of wrapped back around to bethune, so hopefully i can do that in about 30 minutes, right . Yes. So watching my clock here, so you probably never heard of the black cabinet . Most people havent heard of the black cabinet. Maybe, you know, in an a high School Textbook or college textbook, every now and then, they get mentioned as fdr, as black cabinet. Its just like maybe a sentence at the most. And those of us who teach history, you know, will often refer to it. And so its kind of intrigued myself by it because it just sort of flies through and that that seems like a really significant of people and it has to be more than just fdr or black cabinet that you can see a sentence about the black. Cameron was a group of black appointees in the new deal era. You know, in the the 1933 to about 1942, when the new deal kind of transitions into World War Two. So they come into government throughout that whole period during the new deal in World War Two. And they are appointed to federal positions in washington d. C. And the received positions throughout the new deal agencies, but also throughout the cabinet departments. Now their story is hard to tell because the black cabinet unsanctioned by fdr, in fact, he never even mentioned the black cabinet and never discussed it. And when he was actually approached in, you know, late 1933 about organizing one, he actually said, no, he he he he said no. You know, i dont i dont feel that that would be advisable. So what you had was a group of black appointees who were scattered throughout the administration and at first their numbers are very small, but start to inch up and then they start to grow. So what i tried to do in the book is say theyre not fdr as black cabinet, theyre their own black cabinet. They established themselves. The government didnt establish it. In fact, the government actually discourage them from doing that. But they saw the need to work in an organized way. And youll see how bethune figures into that. But theyre self established, theyre selfsustaining, and theyre selfdirected. It and theyre a really important piece of that new deal history. Theyre unofficial, and because theyre unofficial, they have to operate carefully and often. They have to operate in secret. So theyre pushing internal for changes within the new deal and then changes during World War Two. But also work with external forces, with black activist organizations, the urban league, the naacp. They work heavily with the black press. They even there are members who will leak information to the black press to try to push the it administration to do what theyre trying to get to happen internally. So theyre working on the inside with people on the outside in some ways, as you think about that, you also should think about this. A lot of them were also activists themselves. Mcleod bethune was vice president. Nwc p, Eugene Kunkel jones was the leader of the urban league and they both receive positions within the government. Its the first time African American civil rights activists actually get a appointments within the federal government who were actively involved in activists organizations so that thats really significant. Now their kind of dual goals that the black cabinet pursues initially the idea is to pursue equal relief because the great depression. Okay but theres also a second goal to pursue equal treatment which as bethune becomes involved, people start to realize this is potential for the second reconstruction, that you can actually ice on black americans rights as citizens citizens. So the black cabinet starts small, but it grows bigger. And by 1936, bethune is center of the black cabinet. So i want you to picture this. I was thinking about this the other day because ive rewritten my talk three times since i came here. Were in this amazing historical space right. With all these achievements, you know, we think about fdr, we think about Eleanor Roosevelt. But bethune was here to people to think about that. Bethune this was white space. And bethune integrated this space. When i was in front of springwood, the home, i was thinking about her and i was thinking about in spring of 1936, her trip here to advise the president. Thats like amazing when you think about bethune born in 1875 in South Carolina to parents who were enslaved she grew up in total poverty. She worked in the cotton, in the rice, in the rice fields. She did Domestic Work with her mother in the home of the man who had enslaved her mother. And she didnt learn to read till the age of ten. And it was education that opened the door for her. Okay. She went impoverishment to the president of a black college. Shes the first and only woman to have founded a hbcu historically black college and university to this day shes a pioneer. She was active in womens clubs. She had a wide range of activities, and she grew in power throughout her life. But you can imagine her as she comes up to the roosevelt, the roosevelt home here in springwood, and shes standing there. Imagine her. Shes been selected to serve on the Advisory Committee, the National Youth administration, and that was a kind of community Advisory Committee. It met kind of infrequently, and they were to advise is the head of the National Youth administration at this point. Shes in an official post. Shes an advisor and shes come with a select group of other members of the Advisory Committee to talk to roosevelt and give him a report on the National Youth administration to talk from their perspective about how the work is going. So you can imagine her as shes standing before springwood and that moment for her. When you you go and stand in front of the home to youre standing where not only Franklin Roosevelt stood and not only where Eleanor Roosevelt stood, youre standing where Mary Mcleod Bethune stood. And that was an accomplished man. That was accomplishments. Her first visit to the white house in her accomplishment. So pride black americans to see somebody go from the background that so many black shared to becoming somebody whos going to advice the president. And theres a burden that is great. And she feels that burden. She talks about burden and responsibility that she has. You can see her walk through the front, not the back door. She walks through the front door and shes welcomed all the other advisors. You see her, you know when you go in the front door and you go to your left, you see the spacious study that Franklin Roosevelt occupied when at that time he received people doing business. So you can see Franklin Roosevelt in that spacious and beautiful study. And you hear her when her turn comes to speak and all the advisers were told to report, not advocate. But bethune believed it was her duty at all times to advocate. So when her turn comes, she says, the national you sit ministration is helping. But not enough. Its helping black youth. There needs to be a lot more done for black youth, she reports. President says in areas of this country, not just in the south, but in the northwest and midwest, black youth arent being served at all. Administrators are discriminating against youth. Theyre turning them away or theyre giving them a lesser share of the program arms. And she she the president. We are bringing life and spirit to those many thousands for who for so long have been in darkness. I speak, mr. President , for 14 million black people, and she says to him directly. Im not only talking about relief, im talking about giving these young people access to what is due to them, their full rights as citizens. So shes advocating shes not going to just report. Okay. And you can see her outlined there. Fdr, according to her, sees, sees and hears what shes saying. And within weeks he the office of Minority Affairs and he appoints her the head of the Office Minority affairs within National Administration in june 36. With that, she becomes the first black woman to serve as an as a head of a federal program in washington, d. C. Isnt that amazing . That is so amazing when i think about it. And in her era, she really broke down that door. Now, when bethune entered and, i just wanted you to keep in mind bethune vision for this isnt just relief. Its equal rights that this is this moment where equal rights can be secured, that black people are do their rights as citizens. And this is the moment where they can be secured a no win, but soon entered to administration. There was already a black cabinet. Okay, so let me talk a little bit about the black cabinet before bethune. So that would in 1933, how does the black come together under under Bethune Bethune in 1933, you know the story. Fdr takes office and rushing to save the nation, right . Hes trying to get nation off, off of its feet of on its feet during great depression. Now, what we dont talk about often in that narrative is how black people suffered more greatly then almost every other group in this nation and in the farming communities, black people were starving. Theyd been driven off the land in many cases or denied the opportunity to farm the land that they had farmed for, for literally generations in urban centers, black peoples employment rate ran to white Unemployment Rate. Im sorry, Unemployment Rate ran twice that of white americans in some areas youll find that black americans Unemployment Rate is 50 to 60 . So thats entire communities that are are almost all of them out of work. But at first, despite the dire consequences of the depression in black america, there are no black appointments. Fdr doesnt make any black appointments. And he starts to get pressure. Eugene jones from the urban league writes him and says too often in emergencies in the United States of america, black people get bypassed. And this is whats happening, he warns him. As early as march, april 1933, that thats happening. But it takes till summer of 33 before the first black appointment appears, and then it starts as a trickle. A few more black appointments start to drift in. And what you see is political pressure on fdr. So as i said, it will continue to grow. Now, bethune will tell you and other black cabinet members, too that it was never enough. There was never enough black appointments in the fdr administration, but it was more appointments than any other ever made before. So it. It grows and grows and grows. And bethune is ideas that you admit everybody possible to the black because their strength in numbers right you know the more the better not not less but more so as they try to construct the book. What i decided i couldnt write about everybody. Everybody in that in that black cabinet has Amazing Stories to tell. But so what i did was narrowed it down to in addition bethune for of the earlier appointments in the that became members of the black cabinet so these early members excuse simply until bethune arrives all men. So i just want to say that all men so thats the first challenge she has right . So one of the first people that i talk about checking my time, oh, when the first people i talk about is robert van. And robert van was a civil attorney. He was a newspaper editor. He edited the pittsburgh courier. If you see the exhibit, youll see him wellrepresented. The exhibit, his newspaper was one of the most influential in the country. Robert ben had been a republic and loyalist. Hed been loyal to the Republican Party. Most black americans were because it was the party of lincoln and the democrats were, the party of the south, right. You couldnt trust democrats. At least thats what a lot of people believed. And in 1932, hes the one who says, you know, im going to go for fdr. The republicans havent done anything. And he makes a very famous speech and says, turn lincolns picture to the wall. The debt has been paid, but the Republican Party isnt paying the debt it owes to black people for continuing to elect them into office. And so he goes for fdr. And, you know, what you see is van is kind of an old time political operative and he receives an appointment in the justice department. The democrats with ben are starting to think, hmm, i wonder if we could get black voters to come over into the Democratic Party. You know, van brought some people with him in that 32 election. And if you went to some the other talks, you heard how in 36 that that becomes a landslide and helps fdr win office in 1936. So so van comes in in the summer of 1933 and he takes office you can imagine what a lonely position that would have been. You know, hes all alone by himself pioneering this the second person i talk, theres a few more appointments. Second person i talk about, though, is Robert Weaver. And his name might be familiar to you because under lyndon johnson, he was the first africanamerican appointed to a cabinet. He was the secretary of housing and urban development. But his starts way back here in fall of 1933 when hes appointed into the department of interior. Robert weaver is has a ph. D. In economics from harvard. Hes the first africanamerican to earn a ph. D. In economics from harvard. So hes a social scientist. And before his appointment, hes teaching at a university. And what hes been doing in his spare time is hes been crunching numbers. Hes been looking at getting as much data as he can to see what the impact of the new deal is on the black community. And as he generates these reports, thats what we all do in our spare time. Right those of us who are teaching at night, this shows you a lot of commitment at night. Hes in his room crunching all these numbers. And what hes able to show is that the new deal is not only bypassing black people, its actually hurting black people, in part because it does bypass black people. But the policies of local administrators are actually hurting black people. Black americans, even deeper into the depression. Not getting out of the depression at all. And so Robert Weaver has been signaling the alarm. Now, robert vann got an appointment because the Democratic Party thought, hmm, i wonder if we could net black voters. Robert weaver gets an appointment because theres pressure hes bringing reports to black activist leaders and theres pressure to do something. And so fdr agrees to an appointment in the department of interior for Robert Weaver. Fdr will to people when they come to him about black appointments as long as they dont have to go to congress, you know, as long as they dont have to run it and get it, you know, approved. Okay, you got it. So. The third person that i talk about in that early group is William Hastie. And you probably dont recognize his name, but hastie is really important to our our national narrative. Hes a boyhood friend of weaver. The two of them grew up in washington, dc. He graduated from harvard law. He was regarded at the time as one of harvard laws best students. But his professor said this is one of the most talented students ever of harvard law had. He was taught at Howard University in the law school. He was an expert in civil rights law. He was a leader in the naacp and he mentored thurgood marshall. You know thurgood marshall, right. Who argued brown versus board of he was Thurgood Marshalls mentor. He joined the department of interior law and he left the government for a little bit and he returned during the war. And the War Department. The fourth person i talk about is Alfred Edgar Smith. Hes not your new york governor, al smith, even though he called himself al smith. Its just a kind of confused. So but al smith, Alfred Edgar Smith was from arkansas and he has a completely different background than weaver. Hastie he he grew up in in great poverty. He lost his parents young lied about his age and got a scholarship to go to howard where. He majored in social sciences and he, too, became a teacher. And he taught and he worked in the post office and he was also a journalist. And through howard tice, again, activist ties, he an appointment in the jobs in in the new deal and eventually hes placed within the wpa right he heads up the largest jobs program for black americans in all of the great depression. Al smith generated more jobs for black americans than any of the other programs in in in the entire new deal. So when but soon to rise its all men. Theres others i could you about but i dont have time right. But theyre fragmented. Theyre divided by generation. Robert vann is an old time, you know, political hack. Right. And younger people are like, yeah, were experts. Thats why were in here. And the younger people, the younger folks, weaver and hastie are ivy league and they recruit and bring up more ivy league appointees and but al smith is kind of off there by himself, kind of not really rotating in that circle and sort of separately. Theyre all trying to march forward and make progress, mostly focusing on getting equal relief for black americans. Or maybe i should also say relief proportional to what the need for black americans was right, because black americans need the new deal badly. So weavers crowd gets together and they meet in his basement saturday night and they play poker and, you know, smoke cigars and strategize about, you know, they share information. They start strategize. But, you know, vance often his his kind of older circle and al smith is kind of off alone talking to people actually at howard. And so theyre not working together. The one thing is they all agree theyre advocates for black people and that theyre there to secure equal relief and they this idea that the new deal could open up these other possibilities for reform of american society, theyre listening to the soaring rhetoric of fdr harvey kaye you so eloquently earlier about the idea of real democracy, and thats what really appeals many of the black leaders. And they think, well maybe this is the moment, maybe this is the president so as they all come into the government, theyve they they encounter some real reality. So even within washington, d. C. Washington, d. C. , a southern city, right. The workplaces are segregated and they have to break that down. When robert phan comes, hes a well known attorney. He comes to work in the justice department. Then they even give an office. At first he has to ask for an office. Hes on cases in the hallway, signing on benches in the hallway. White secretaries who predominate in the secretarial pool think will take from from black appointees. You have to in some buildings ride the freight lift youre allowed to ride in the elevator with everyone. The cafeterias are segregated weaver and hasty. Decide one day, you know what, were just going to go sit down and eat. Were to challenge it. And they won that battle. So but one of the great frustrations, too is, is that theyre generating documentation to show that black americans are suffering and they cant get the reports that lower level supervisors block them, even though the upper level supervisors are just like, well, maybe we dont want to give fdr bad news about the new deal. We want to tell him kind of reality. So so you can see them. They make some, but its very slow. Theyre not united. And then theyre facing this overwhelming kind of wall as they come in. So, so now, you know, in 1936, we get to 1936, but thune arrives. Right. And she hates this appointment in the National Youth administration. So you can now imagine yourself. Its august. 1936 and the first week. And mrs. Bethune and she summons to a meeting in her home friday night after work. And you dont say nobody says no to mrs. Bethune. She is one of the most important black in america. She is one of the most important black leaders in america. And in fact, shes regarded as important the most important Women Leaders in america. So and she never takes no for an answer. So she calls she summons this core group to her home to talk about this, in which she says to them is, we must Work Together and think together. We have to start sharing information respective whatever program were in and we have to start strategizing and we have to get out to the public what has been done. But we also have to get out to the public and to the president. What needs to be done. So she says, weve got to marshal forward and walk together she has a big vision for the new deal. Its not just relief relief. Its imperative. But this is the second reconstruction she really envisions a nation united and a nation that lives to its democratic ideals. And she speaks in that language over and over. And thats why she interfaces so well with the roosevelts. Her message is very similar to the roosevelts. But her job is to remind the roosevelts that this isnt happening okay. So bethune can open doors for the cabinet. She can get to the president mostly through Eleanor Roosevelt. Okay. Who shes met through women clubs, circles. And she gets group to begin to meet together in mass although the click off and me together and Robert Weavers like oh mrs. Bethune such a stick in the mud she doesnt like it when we drink. Yeah. So, so. And she was very was very straight laced. And you toed the line. So. But under her, the group is able to stage two national meetings. The first time the federal go and sponsored by the federal government. The first time the federal government has ever sponsored a grouping in washington dc to come together and talk about what black americans face and what the solutions to the problems that black americans face could be. You see more funding come in to job programs and for housing. You see more attention to rural policy so that black americans arent completely excluded from it. These are of the victories that youll see. I mean, they start under the first group, but bethune accelerate. Now you might be saying to yourself, all of this happens after the election, 1936, right . And thats because one of the contribue portions, the black cabinet is in full. In 1936 to hit the campaign trail, campaigning for fdr and the one of the things she says to them in that meeting in her home is the first thing we have to get the president reelected, because with the republicans were not going to fare well at all. So she sees that as imperative. And so bethune that the art of political negotiation clearly you know she always talks about fdr teaching her practical politic but i have a feeling she taught fdr and Eleanor Roosevelt a lot about practical politics by revealing to them the realities of of of the national situation. So so part of part of the contributions they make is this migration from the Democratic Party into the Republican Party. Its kind of the first step away. One of the things that they do, they dont get much credit for at all is this. They blocked a lot of things. The institutional legislation of jim crow at the federal level. There were all kinds of plans to segregation and differential treatment into new deal programs and programs within the cabinet department. And you could see part of them, you know, part, part of their a mission is to stop that from happening, because if it gets institutionalized at the federal level, the protections are all gone. You you know, at least if you can appeal to the federal, you know, theres a higher power you build a fairer government to live up to the standards of the constitution, antidiscrimination, theyre instrumental in seeing them become integrated into defense contracts. But earlier into work contracts under the under the new deal. But one of the things that theyre really pushing forward is the idea its fine to write a clause and say you cannot discriminate, but you have to have a mechanism to enforce it. And thats really important. So, so very important in creating those kinds of laying the groundwork for what later on will become. And i discrimination legislation at the level you know it wont be really actualized really until the 1960s but they lay that groundwork so but youre probably saying to me well what didnt happen because thats the way everybody always like well you know okay youre all skeptical right. And a lot didnt happen. The black cabinet would tell you a lot of their goals didnt happen. Maybe more came, but it was never enough to serve black america. And the idea of reconstructing the nation, remaking america to live up to. Its a democratic process. That didnt happen. The black cabinet pushed for desegregation. They were able to desegregate. To some degree washington, d. C. Workspaces, not the nation. The of disenfranchisement. The black cabinet pushed that and youll see roosevelt himself over later in the war to that idea, too. But they roadblocks especially in the south that antilynching legislation that was high on the black agenda. And as you probably know, that wasnt enacted until this year. So so theres a lot of things that didnt happen associated with citizen ship rights with protection of citizens and then the inequalities in health care and education and other kind of economic rights, those those were never really fully addressed. One of the things that but soon and we were both believed was that the new deal programs set were instituted realized were only temporary. Right. And they needed to be institutionalized permanently the ideas that was a short relief. It was an Economic Program to get us out of the depression right. Well, what they felt was this, that once the depression seemed to be over, it wouldnt be over for large sectors of american society, just black americans, but other americans. And so if you institutionalized health care, they called for universal health care, education reform, all those things. If you institutionalize there, would be protections for all americans in into the future. But but they didnt win that once World War Two happens. Funding to new deal gets cut and youll find most of the black cabinet out of office by 43 and 44. So but you have to say the the black cabinet really make the new deal richer and. And broader and i think the created this idea that democracy demanded that the federal government wasnt just responsible for your economic rights or generally citizenship rights. It was responsible to protect you in cases in which all anybody, no matter their background in those cases, in which their rights were were denied. So so the black cabinet in a lot ways pushes the new deal to become the new deal kind of more that, you know, if you think about it, when you think about the new deal, you often with civil rights but its black people, the black cabinet. And then as youll see in the exhibit black citizens and black active as that kind of reshape and remold the new deal. And while the objectives arent achieved, the promise is there and. Highlighting that promise is so important this group of black american, you know, i deal with the black americans in the federal government. The group is a bridge between an older Civil Rights Movement and a newer Civil Rights Movement. If you think about it, its a forgotten of leaders. We dont talk about when we talk about the panorama of leaders, we talk about booker t washington. We talk about w. E. B. To talk about frederick douglass. We might talk about ida wells. I hope you know who she is. Well talk about Martin Luther king and malcolm x and rosa parks. And we dont talk about this interwar generation. And i kind of feel like they need to get their due. So let me tell you a little bit about bassoon, right . Thats what cliff wanted me to do. Cliff, im i say a little bit because i havent written the book yet, so ill have to come back whenever i get it done. So just let me see my time. Hopefully im okay. Four time. Okay. The black cabinet, like i said, is just a moment in her. Okay. And like i said, what it is, is she has this kind of legacy of being this bridge between an earlier generation and then a later generation. Thats one of her big legacies is is shes kind of part of a longer Civil Rights Movement. We debate whether theres a long Civil Rights Movement or whether it kind of up and goes all kinds of different. But but bethune in this group kind of shows it in at least in this case there is you can trace it back to douglass and the activists in that of enslavement all the way forward. But she had such a broad influence, so many accomplishments. What im to do, so give you a preview. So hopefully i get done soon. Im trying to not you to do a traditional biography where youre born and you die. What im trying to do is do each chapter where i tell her life story by using a person who either influenced her or she influenced. So that moves her story forward. And you can kind of see all the different activities shes immersed, see her through these different lenses and through her different, different act, different activist programs. So now what i want to do when ive been here, ive been here for a month thanks to librarians. Hopefully dont kick me out. I want to do a chapter on eleanor. You probably, you know, Mary Mcleod Bethune, you know that they had a very famous friendship and it was praised by the black press. Women spoke of the friendship, but it was also in their era used by the racist south against fdr and the first lady as an attempt to undermine the new deal, fdr, his policies. But both women displayed that friendship very proudly after the second term began in Eleanor Roosevelt, the 1950s wrote an article about her friendship with black americans, and she mentioned specifically her friendship with bethune. So she of her closeness of bethune and i, you know, wondering, well, how close were they really . And there are people on both sides say, yes, they had a very genuine friendship one of bethune secretaries talked about when Eleanor Roosevelt came bethune kind of relaxed, that she fought all day against racism. And Eleanor Roosevelt came and she kind of relaxed. But i have to say, and i this in the black covenant, its based on an exchange both of them are marginalized women. You know, theyre restricted, but both of them have access to certain power, if you think about it. And its different power that they have access and combined they have overlapping goals and combined they can kind combine forces and achieve certain things that may be separate. They couldnt. And i think Eleanor Roosevelt realizes that in bethune and bethune realizes that in Eleanor Roosevelt. I think youll find that eleanor was roosevelt is very much fashioned and molded by bethune. Bethune helps create Eleanor Roosevelt into the first lady that you praised today. You see as a civil rights activist. And both of those women share a fundamental belief in democracy in its promise. But i think bethune moves Eleanor Roosevelt from being somebody who finds racism distaste for to being an antiracist understanding that its thats not enough. You have to do something. You have to actively do something to fight racism. And thats still in a roosevelt we know and we celebrate. And i think a lot of thats due to mrs. Bethune and William Hastie talked about when he first met Eleanor Roosevelt, he found her to very naive on race and even Eleanor Roosevelt said that about herself. But youll find people say that after that relationship with bethune starts to blossom, Eleanor Roosevelt started to think differently and, you know, they do become very loyal allies to each other on their different projects to protective of each other. For bethune, its her school and its the fight against racism. Its the womens clubs that shes so active in and leading. And for Eleanor Roosevelt, a lot of it has to do with Democratic Party politics, right. But also the united nations. Her goal to get the united nations, the charter through the declaration of human rights, and she gets bethune support on that when other black americans arent necessarily supporting that, too. Boyce, was very critical and said, well, you know, you can make a declaration on human rights, but we need it here at home. So but i think they develop up this common bond and both believe that women could and should lead the country, that theres something about also a unification between and white women across the board in terms of gender. And i think what happens is you find this is a common bond between two women warriors as and i think they both see each other that way and they both respect each other that way. And what im finding that goes deeper during World War Two, that they see the stark threat to presented by axis powers and everybody i think is kind of awakened to the precious of democracy. But Eleanor Roosevelt, Mary Mcleod Bethune experiencing democracy in different ways. Both see the war as this pivotal, Pivotal Moment and it raises awareness of their common common goals. They the thing about Eleanor Roosevelt is i think, again, shes a very specific kind of bubble the moment club bethune is out with the people will always stay with the people and she can feed that back to Eleanor Roosevelt. And in the war era, i think what shes able to say is, look at the hypocrisy of american society. You criticize hitler, look at what happens at home. We still lynching. We still have disenfranchized guys and we have desegregation. And throughout the war, bethune speaks about this real day ocracy thats so precious and so, so important and that we need to attain. I just ill close know if you can imagine yourself now in 1942 in madison garden you can imagine yourself there right . See if i was in california like say where now really they know. But you can see it and theres a big rally sponsored by a number of black activists, organizations, the pittsburgh courier and its a double v rally victory home, victory abroad, victory abroad against hitler. But victory at against jim crow and for our citizenship rights. And here you can really see bassoonist. Shes the stage and she gets up and she makes this vibrant address and she she and you can see her as the bridge. She says a new has risen in america. He is here in Madison Square garden tonight. His needs are young nor old. Hes just new. You are seeking freedom, justice, respect and opportunity. You are militant in spirit. You are unwilling accept less than the constitution to you as citizens of the worlds greatest democracy, you are no longer begging. You are insist, because you realize that america, the only country you know and love, cannot be preserved 9 10, three and 1 10 oppressed. I think those are words for our time. So thank you for listening to me because. Its so hopefully we have time for questions if you want to ask, please use the microphone. The question. I tired everybody out. Its a long day. The civilian concert corps was at least partially integrated outside the. 15 years before truman integrate to the armed forces did bethune anything to do with that . I actually would give most credit. Edgar g. Brown, somebody mentioned him earlier today. I cant remember. And one of the talks. Thats right. You mentioned him. I think he really he was in before and he received an appointment in the civilian corps. And they sent him to field to try to find out what was going on. And when he found he was he was like nothing is going on. Black americans arent even being admitted to a lot of the course in the north. And so he returned and he reported that. And they were like well, its military and under military discipline. So youd have to talk to the War Department. So brown goes to war with the War Department to try to integrate it. And really, he he gets the credit for that although she works very closely with him throughout, theyre very, very close. So so thats a great. Thank you. I want to thank you. Who was appointed these people . If fdr was like who was who was . The man or the woman . Not . Thats a great question to, because fdr really doesnt want to you know, fdr is always worried about the white democrat to the south and appeasing them. And so hes been very, very careful and like he tells jim farley and joe guffey, as long as i dont have to take it to congress, you can have the appointment. So theyre taking in recommendation signs from others. So if you look at whos really advocating for these appointments to the president , like who are the intercession areas, right. Harold ickes in the department of interior who, you know, in chicago, the president of the naacp, it was a white man. Williams, of the National Youth administration, Eleanor Roosevelt, you know, leaving notes on the president s nightstand saying, you really need to take care of this. Right. So so its really coming. When bethune when bethune told by aubrey that shes going to receive this appointment as administrator in the national you sit administration and he says well the president s going to appoint will you receive a letter and she says to him no i want him to offer it to me personally. She does. She does. And she him meet with her and offer it to her. I think thats really important when you think of it, nobody, nobody else in, the black cabinet was able to do that, but she was able to do that. So yeah, thats a great question about how of sidestepping and letting other people do it. Yeah. What do you know about field levels of frustration . People in the black cabinet during the cold war . What was not . So the question is what do i know about the level of frustration over didnt occur . I mean, its considerable and i think one of the things you can see as the cabinet continues to grow later on, they become more under bethune control, more fragmented. I think its because of the pressures they face, you know, the frustration over and over again circling and trying to get change this way and trying to get change way. And increasingly as you get into the war era, theyve got to work more and more with activist organization, audience and with the black press in order to try to leverage some kind of voice, you know, to get to fdr. So, so yeah. And you can see it takes a toll on peoples health, on peoples marriages. Is it really, you know, very time in their lives and bill hastie later on when they you know, they ask him, you know, well what was it like he he talks about, you know, i really feel like we didnt accomplish much. You know, he had a very kind of he was depressed about the opportunity opening and really be able to seize it. So he he you could see it taken its toll on him. So yeah. Great work. Jill, can you talk to us about some of the internal strife with the men in particular because all them came from very prominent places on the black cabinet. So can we look at some of the gendered strife that she might have been caught in in, endured, but also the idea of her considering the generation that rising . How did she seem to of select a protege or acolytes to kind of follow in succession. Could you talk about that . Thats a great question. I think with bassoons, when she comes in, she marshals them together. But she faces a considerable amount of resent that. Robert weaver and some others feel their ideas. Bethune is not a thinker. Shes great because shes very dramatic and she was a great speaker. If you ever are able to listen, some of recording of her, i dont think it captures people. They talk about people coming and they will literally sit on windowsills or sit outside to try to hear bethune speak. Thats how amazing she was. But these young men are, you know, social scientists. A lot of the Ivy League Educated young men felt let bethune was, you know, not quite at their level. She you know, she a she had an education from moody bible institute. You know, and what she was good for was a vehicle and so she kind of endured that and they called her mom bethune and in cases she didnt like that because mrs. Bethune even to them but there was also the tradition within the community of mother bethune. Right. Mother dear. And she was to river that was understood. And they would never, you know, very rarely even whisper criticism her because of her position but behind her back they were talking and they talked a lot a lot more later. You know, the. What she was good for was presenting the facts. Not really distilling them. But thats absolutely not true. She really they they short sell her and the thing about bethune is is that she she doesnt let she ahead regardless. You know ida jones system work on bethune it really important work and you know she just she when she encounters gender discrimination she just says okay im not going to listen to that. I just go ahead. So so she she forges ahead regardless. But i you know, i think part of her challenge is to marshal these men together. And to demand their respect and hold it so i think i dont i could go on and on. I dont know if. Thanks so much