In the next rm youll find the exhibit stitching history from the holocaust, developed our colleagues at the Jewish Museum of milwaukee, telling the story of a family who attempted to escape from nazi occupied prague via impassioned plooe for american visa based on talent as a dress kainer. The request failed. The family perished. Her designs survived and have been brought to testimony of what america lost when we decide the desperate souls were unwanted. As we hear the case of this evening the the case of in family wasnt ewe nic and it wasnt just the haters complicit in the murder of the innocent. Mr. Dobbs talk is part of the shapiro lecture series made possible by gloria l. Shapiro. I want to thank Program Partner willings, the library and the United States Holocaust Memorial museum. Here to to introduce mr. Dobbs is a Holocaust Museum midatlantic regional director, patterned t patterned, andre abraham. Thank you, marvin. Im andre sabril. I have occasion to get to baltimore and speak to many groups and work oft want Jewish Museum of maryland and many others. Thank you for having me. Outside of the Museum Building in washington, d. C. , there is a large wall hanging as you leave the museum that captured what animates our work every day. The next time you witness hatred think about what you saw. The next time you see injustice, think about what you saw. The next time you hear about genocide, think about what you saw. The museums work centers on memory, education and action. We best honor that is those who scherr i should by learning the lessons of the holocaust and empowering visitors to think critically about roles and responsibilities as citizens in a democracy today. Well before the Holocaust Museum was founded in 1979, the president s commission on the holocaust led by the late elle wisele mandated we confront our nations role in responding to events into europe during the 1930s andet 40s. The museum touches on the issues in many ways but most recently through a Ground Breaking Educational Initiative americans and the holocaust. Which includes an immersive new special exhibition. We asked visitors to step into the life of the United States of normal americans during the 1930s and 40s without the benefit of hindsight and explore the pressures and motivations that influenced american responses to the growing nazi threat in europe. We hope the experience also inspires to think about roles and responsibilities. And in protecting democracy today. Tonight we are thrilled to be able to introduce to you a new aspect of the americans and the Holocaust Initiative with the book called the unwanted, America Auschwitz and a village caught in between, written by michael dobbs. During the Program Michael will introduce to you the jewish residents of kippenheim, a small German Village on the edge of the black forrette and the leaders of u. S. , germany and france whose actions had direct impact on the fates of the families. By publishing this book, the museum seeks to help reerds understand the human impact of the american responses on the mothers, fathers and children caught in the cross hairs of nazi brutality. As they desperately sought to attain immigration visas. So its now my pleasure to introduce the author of the unwanted, michael dobbs. He is a writer and researcher with the u. S. Holocaust memorial museum. A longtime Washington Post reporter, working as a Foreign Correspondent around the world. Also written many, many books, including six months in 1945 from world war ii from world war to cold war. Excuse me and one minute to midnight about the cuban missile crisis. Delighted to be here and delighted to welcome michael dobbs. [ applause ] thank you very much, andres, and marvin for kind remarks. So perhaps i should tell you a little bit about the title and subtitle. Actually finding a title was very difficult because you have to compress the entire theme of a a 300page book into two or three words. But eventually after much consideration we decided to go with the title the unwanted. And the inspiration was the signs all over nazi germany, i had saying this juden jews unwanted here. Of course jews were unwanted in their homeland of germany, even though they represented actually about half of a percent of the population. When hit letter came to pow there were 520,000 jews living in germany. But it was made clear very quickly they were unwanted in germany. The question is, were they wanted anywhere else . And this is one of the themes that our exhibit, americans in the holocaust, looks at. The question of refuge and whether or not the u. S. Government provided refuge to jewish refugees fleeing nazi persecution in europe. Overwhelming tli german jews wanted to come to america. They had connection was america. Many loved ones, relatives had already come to america. So america was their number one priority, second second was probably emigrating to palestine. I look in this book at the fate of the Jewish Community of a single village called kippenheim on the edge of the black forest. And some of the families i look at focus on in the book succeed in making it to america. And others dont. And in many cases the fate of the people who didnt make to america was they ended up in auschwitz, which explains the subtitle of the book. So the question is, why . Why did some people end up in auschwitz and others in america . This is a question that obsessed me as i did the research for this book. And the simplest answer to that question is whether they succeeded in obtaining what the american journalist Dorothy Thompson called a piece of paper with a stamp in it that, according to thompson could mean and very often did mean the difference between life and death. Dorothy thompson had been one of the First American journalists who report from nazi germany. She actually interviewed hitler as the crisis was growing she could sequences. And in 1938 she writes that the that its a fantastic commentary on the inhumanity of our times that for thousands and thousands of people, a piece of paper with a stamp on it is the difference between life and death. I wanted to dive into the lives of the people who were trying to obtain these stamps. And i also wanted to describe the decisionmaking, policymaking that went into whether or not you were issued with these lifesaving visas. No quite a few books have been written about u. S. Immigration and refugee policy during this period. But as far as i know none of the books that sort of focused on the debate taking place in washington and the United States, the political rather bureaucratic debate. And they dont connect the debate to the fates of individual jews trying to reach the United States. Thats the purpose of my book is to describe what was happening in washington but also relate it to the lives of people trying to get to the United States. And i wanted im a former journalist. And journalists have a tendency to try to personalize things to give concrete examples. So i wanted to focus on the experiences of a single german Jewish Community and i ended up choosing a place called kippenheim on the edge of the black forest just aacross the rhine river from alsas. Which in a jews had been living in village for two, three hundred years in some cases. They were brought to the area by are or allowed to settle in the area but by the rulers of barden, one of the german principleties. And the purpose was to supply the armies of barden. Germany didnt even exist at that time to supply the armies defends the holy Roman Emperor against the france across the rhine river. So these are three photographs illustrating jewish life in kippenheim between the years 1933 when hitler comes to power and 1938 crystal nacht. The first photograph in the top lefthand corner is a photograph of a wedding of a family called valfa. Max valfa was cigarette, cigar manufacturer distributor, rather. This is his daughter escorted to the synagogue in kippenheim just a week or two weeks before hitler came to power in january of 1933. And you can see its a perfectly normal scene, peaceful procession through the street. People are looking respectfully at in jewish wedding. There is even a german policeman keeping order in the village. Just two years later the photograph down below, the brown shirts, s. A. Have arrived in kippenheim. And holding demonstrations in this case with a the kippenheim firemans band. This particular demonstration is outside the house of the jewish residents of kippenheim. But you see them looking through the window. Although there is men ace in the photo the jawish people are looking through the window and enjoying the rousing music, before they understand pan really grasp what the dsh what the lyrics to the music, which in many cases were death to the jews. Or there was a famous song that the storm troopers use to sing about jewish blood. But the third photograph here, november 1938, three years later, of course is the peak of persecution not the peak but the time when harassment turned to physical violence. As in other German Jewish communities, all the jewish men of kippenheim were rounded up at crystal nacht and sent to in this their case to the dak au concentration camp. The synagogue was destroyed actually wasnt burned down because there were christian houses next door and there was instruction not to burn down synagogues right next to christian property process. But the interior was destroyed by hitler youth members. And actually on the lefthand side of the photographs you can see little boys probably teenagers looking for shattered pieces of crystal amid the wreckage of the synagogue. So in other words it just took five years between 1933 and 1938 for a Peaceful Community to become the target of horrific violence. And it was at kristallnacht. There was dont about this before. But any doubts juices dsh the Jewish Community of kippenheim had about whether or not they should emigrate from germany. They were away by kristallnacht. After skriflt enact there was no debate anymore. People understood cheerily in order to survive they had to get out of germany. So just to say a few words about how i came to choose this village among all the other German Jewish communities in germany. Before i started researching this, i hadnt really understood that before the deportations began to the east in 1941 and 1942 there were deportations to the west. And the nazi leader of barden decided a few months after the fall of france in 1940 november of 1940, that he would expel his entire Jewish Population of barden and dump them in france. 6500 jews rounded up overnight, taken to local train stations and taken by train to unoccupied france, the southern part of france and dumped in a concentration camp in france called the gers camp in the shadow of the pyranees. In posed a clalg to u. S. Policy. Because when the jews arrived in france, the frefrm didnt want him imthem, the vishty french led mri marshal patan. They immediately turned for the ups and said to the u. S. Government they noted that fdr talked a lot about resolving this tackling in refugee crisis. And they said that the u. S. Should be willing to put to take action to support the rhetoric. And accept their fair share of jews expelled from nazi germany. But the state department recommended f. D. R. That he turn the french request down. The reason given was that if the German Government succeeds in expelling, deporting in group of jews they will try the same trick in other parts of germany. They will repeat epgtically cleansing. It they have ethnically cleansed this part of germany. They will ethnically cleanse other parts of germany. With hindsight we can say it would have been a good idea to expel all the Jewish Population but we didnt know this at the time, because this is before the before the the death camps had been created. So f. D. R. Essentially supported the state department in refusing to allow refusing to accept the french request to allow these yous to emigrate to america. But i thought for the you were of my book this is an interesting case study. Because even after arriving in france they couldnt all go as a group to as a group to the United States. They would still for the most part applied for u. S. Visas. And when they got to the camp in france they continued their quest for american visas. There was a u. S. Consulate in march say and they started writing to the consulate in marissa transferring applications from stuttgart to marsai. There is about 500 jewish communities in barreden. But i decided to focus on one and kmoes kippenheim larnlly because we actually have photographs of in deportation. There are very few photographs of deportations of jews from germany. But what makes these photographs remarkable is not only do you see here jews being led out of their house, put on a truck to be taken to the Railway Station, but because kippenheim is a small place we know who these people are. This is the meier family. Sigfried meyer, the man at the back of the line here was began as a peddler but became more than a peddler, became a tradesman, quite a successful tradesman. His wife is already on the truck together with his oldest son. This is his mother and father. And this is his son, a man called kurt meyer, ten years old at the time. I saw this photograph. We can trace where the route of the truck as it went around the village collecting jewish families. When i saw this photograph i wondered what became of these people. There is another photograph just around the corner at the outside the home of the cigar distributor, max valfa. This is max valfer there behind which is wife, fanny valfer as they are being put on the truck to be taken from the Railway Station to be taken to gers. You see its a normal day, all happening at about 10 00, 11 00. They were given a couple of hours to pack bags. In principle they were allowed to take two suitcases each. There is a cow you can see in the background here being led through the village. It was a very rural community. Many jews from the village were cattle dealer. This is an s. S. Man here. I wondered what happened later to max and fanny. And what happened to the meyer family and how were their fates connected to this debate i talked about that was happening over the across the ocean in the United States . Now this is october 1940. I said november. Its october 1940. I sort of want to give the Historical Context here. Four or five months before the german army had invaded western europe and france fell within the space of a couple of weeks and the fall of france created a in the United States it had Immediate Impact in the United States. Because people were asking, how come this country with a strong army fell so quickly . And the answer given in many cases was the presence of nazi agents behind behind french lines. And the idea of fifth colinists, nazi agents first coming into countries like france, scandinavian countries and then threatening the United States was and it spread through American Public opinion extremely quickly. The fbi in june of 1940, after the fall of france received about 3,000 telephone tips a day about the presence of nazi agents. People called up the fbi. They heard some german in the street and suspected that a perfectly German Family or perhaps German Jewish family and reported to the fbi. In led to a climate in the u. S. Where legitimate National Security concerns became a phobia about enemy agents come into the country. A man called breckenridge long was assistant secretary of state. He issues instructions in 1940 that if there was any doubt concerning the alien he instructed u. S. Consul in europe to reject the visa applications. This was the background to decisionmaking about accepting refugees at the time when this deportation to france took place in october 1940. And the fear of nazi agents went all the way up to the top, to f. D. R. In the First World War f. D. R. Had been secretary of the navy and experienced successful attempts at sab taj taj touring the First World War backup there was a huge explosion of an ammunition dump across from the statue of liberty in new jersey which succeeded in partially destroying the statue of liberty. And roosevelt felt that the germans would probably try the same thing again in the second world war. And actually at about the time when the german army marched into france. Roosevelt in a public speech lengths the question of refugees to the question of nazi agents. And says the refugee has to be checked, because unfortunately among the refugees there are some spies, as has been found in other countries. He is talking mainly about france and scandinavia, norway. He will more roosevelt had a different idea. The dynamic between he will more and f. D. R. Is one of the themes i explore in the book. And she warned about being swept away from our traditional defense of Civil Liberties by hysteria about fifth colinists. Are we going to keep our heads she asked at about the same time her husband is warning of the threat posed not by all refugees but by some refugees. So this whats happening in the United States when these families that i focus on arrive in gers and start trying to apply for american visas or continue their quest for american visas. Their experience is summed up by an American Relief worker called frye who was in marseille at the time. Trying to rescue endangered cultural figures. He saw what was happening in the conlites and all the conlites in marissa. This is from our Holocaust Museum archives of the crowd of visa seekers outside the u. S. Consulate in march say in 1941. He wrote gnat visa rigmarole is almost inhuman. Almost killing the refugees waiting in cory doors and lines over and over until their souls must be shrivelled and shrunk by the persons. We have testimony from the valfers because when they got to the ger camp they were permitted to correspond with their families in europe or the United States. And we have some letters from fanny and max valfer to their children. First of all there is a letter that talks about their deportation from kippenheim. I packed so much, writes fanny, in two hours but most of it the heron, the gentleman her way of describing the s. S. Threw back into the house. No linen, no clothes, none of the things that your dear papa and i acquired over the years. When she arrives in gers she writes we have become beg ars. I still cant grasp we have become so poor and helpless. My eyes hurt from crying. Kind sweet children, do not forgot us. Go to the Jewish Committee over there she means in the United States and do all that is necessary so that we get some relief from the mess that were in. So i write about other families in the book. But for the purpose of in talk im just going to describe what happened to two families, the meyers and the valfers. The meyer family you can see in dsh back in kippenheim they had a car. They life was pretty good for them. This is gers at the bottom of the at the bottom of the screen. What everybody remembers about gers is the mud and rain, particularly in the winter much 1940. Here is an old woman trudging through the mud outside the ram shackle huts where everybody had to live. But the meyers were lucky because they had actually applied for u. S. Visas three or four years before hand. And their quota numbers had become due. They had even been approved before being deported from germany. When they got to gers with the help of an Organization Called hias. You have hshld heard of them theyve been in the news recently because hyus, a synagogue associated with hyus was attacked a few months ago. But they were the main agency trying to help jewish families get out of france and get to the u. S. Anyway with the help of hyus and also affidavits from their relatives in the United States they were also supplied enough money for the transatlantic passage. Any got to the United States on a long rather circuitous route from morocco to kass blanka but got out of gechlt ers in a few months. They were among the lucky ones. The fate of the v. A lfers was very different. They came close to receiving american visas on several different occasions. But each time when it seemed that their visas were about to be approved something would something would happen. And they wouldnt be issued the visas. For example, they were told to report to the u. S. Consulate in marseille on december 8th, 1941, the visas had been approved in washington. They showed up. A monday. The previous day, of course, pearl harbor had been bombed. And the United States found itself at war with nazi germany. So the valfers showed up at the consulate and they said we cant issue the visas right now there is an emergency. There will have to be further checks. They werent rejected for visas but were told we have to have further checks. And we actually have a letter from fanny to her children after this. Saying, when i first arrived here this is in early 1942, a month or so after pearl harbor we expected to leave for the u. S. After four weeks. It didnt work out that way. Now we must wait until its our turn. We have nothing to do but suffer. Fanny was actually much morp patient than her husband. She believed it she tried to sort of remove herself from this sort of daily struggle to get visas while her husband was going every day or every other day either writing or going personally to the consulate or writing to the hyus, trying to do anything to get out. But in the meantime in the u. S. , to review all the applications that were effectively put on hold, the u. S. Government created an interdepartmental visa review committee with representatives from different agencies, including the fbi, the department of war, office of naval intelligence, the state department and the justice department. And they would meet in washington, invite the relatives to essentially invite them to demonstrate that their loved ones back in france trying to get out were not threats to u. S. National security. And it was the onus on the relatives to prove that their friends or relatives back in france were were not nazi agents rather than the other way around. But in any event, in july of 1942, the visa the visa review committees again approved a sus visa or max and fanny. But the tragedy was in august 1942, a couple of weeks after these their visas had finally been approved in wealthtrack. German policy changed. And they now started deport they didnt anymore allow people to emigrate. The policy now was annihilation, beginning with the jewish jews who ended up in countries that germany had conquers including france. Under pressure from germans the french began handing over the foreign jewish interns to the jewish beginning with max and fanny valfer, who were among the first to be transported first from a camp called lemille to drancy transit camp near paris. And subsequently to auschwitz. At the very time when they had finally reached the front of the line for american visas. We have a letter from fanny max and fannys son karl who lifted in chicago. He had gone to washington to plead the case of his parents. And when he learned that their visas had had been approved he wrote to his parents in france and said, i see you my dears trying to keep the tears from your cheeks. Keep your heads high. God willing you will soon be able to set foot in this wonderful country. Actually as far as we know they didnt receive that letter. It was returned to the United States. So what happened to the 6500 deportees i talked about, expellees from barreden . About roughly half ended up in auschwitz. Including the valfers. 25 including the grand the grandfather of the meyer family died in the french camps in the atrocious conditions of gers, rhee mille, the other camps. About 12, mainly Young Children managed to hide out in france for the end of the war, survive the war. And about 12 including the meyer family except for the grandfather emigrated, mainly to the United States, not only to the United States but mainly to the United States. So what determined whether you survived or whether you didnt, whether you were sent to a place like auschwitz . You cant reduce it to a single factor but ive tried to list some of the fookts here. One is the date of your immigration application, whether it was before or after august 1938. August 1938 turned out to be a water shed because it was the period when the persecution of the jews in germany started to become much more dramatic. And people who had thought this they could hang on decided that it wasnt possible. So the waiting list for immigration to the United States became unmanageable after august of 1938. The valfer parents in contrast to children applied in september much 1938. Sponsor and support networks in the United States were very important, because you needed an affidavit from a relative in order to get the immigration visa. And that was connected to the question of education and wealth. By and large it was better educated people with resources who managed to leave. Younger people were the first to try to leave. Ands in illustrated by the valfer children. The children had left earlier. And women by and large were more anxious to leave than men. In the valfer family it was fanny who had the idea of leaving and her husband thought they could hang on in germany longer. He had a good business. He felt he had more reason to stay than either his children or his wife. Actually, the quotas the german quota turned out to be quite a generous quota. It was 27,000 people were allowed to emigrate from germany to the United States every year, which was much more than the quotas for east European Countries. So german jews were favored over east european jews. Partly as a result the German Jewish survival rate is higher than jews from east European Countries. Deportation to gers gave people par docksically a Second Chance at emgracious because the borders of germany were closed at this point. And this all feeds into the attitudes of u. S. Consul and policy makers and u. S. Immigration policy at the time. National security scarce. I found in direct connection between National Security scarce in the United States, particularly after the fall of france in june of 1940 and the fates of individual jewish families. The attitude of individual consuls varied greatly. Some were sympathetic, others not at all. And finally luck. I mean, had the valfers been invited to the u. S. Consulate in marseille, a few days earlier they probably would have been issued visas and gotten out of france. But just a chance matter of a a dumb of days men in their case the difference between life and death. Or the question of st. Louis. One of the valfer children were on st. Louis and turned back from cuba werent allowed to come back to the United States. They were sent to europe. And they were zribted among different European Countries and this family ended up in the uk in england. And as a result and practically everybody who were ended up in the uk survived. But many of their friends who were admitted to france or belgium or the netherlands didnt have the same good fortune. So look also plays a role. I thought i would just end by telling you about kurt meyer. He is the boy in the picture here, the 10yearold boy who is being put onto the truck with his family. I another reason why i wrote this book was that i began to search for survivors. And with google you can do anything these days. I put kurt meyer into google and discovered he was a cataloger of german books at the library of congress in washington, practically our next door neighbor to the u. S. Holocaust memorial museum. Kurt is still very attached to kippenheim. And the childhood that he remembers in jamir. He goes he is invited to go back every year to germany and gives talks in churches and schools. And he one of the slide that he always shows is this foeft of his american visa with all the other stamps on it, including exit stamps from france. And he i went with him to school actually called the anne frank gym nas yum. He ended like this. These stamps saved our lives, kurt said. If you are missing just one stamp, you could die. This was the most precious document i ever possessed. It saved our lives. Well, thank you very much. [ applause ] so i think we have time for a few questions, or there is just one caveat. Since this is being filmed by cspan they would like you to wit for the microphone before you ask a question. Thank you. Thank you very much. Thank you. Which there was such a level of i dont want to say antisemitism but dislike of european in the United States . So as i understand the question, why there such dislike of europeans or jews in the United States or both altogether . Well, this is you know, you have in order to understand u. S. Immigration policy at the time you have to go back to the early part of the 19th century. And when the numbers of i mean actually in the 19th century pretty much anybody could come to the United States. And policies gradually became more and more exclusionary. And the exclusions were directed, you know, against asians, chinese, but also against jews. Although jews were not there was nothing in u. S. Law that was, you know, you could say was directed primarily against jews. Because it wasnt a religious law. There were quotas for individual countries. So you had in paradox actually of the german quota. Because germans were considered north europeans. And people werent thinking of jews at the time. They were thinking of germans. So the german quota was quite generous. Whereas the importantly quota was a fracture shup of the german quota. Particularly after the First World War there was a xenophobiaic attitude in the United States which resulted in a restrictive Immigration Law passed in 1924. A book recently came out about the ewe jenn iks movement p some people according to them were considered this is a precursor of nazi ideology practically. Some ethnic groups were considered superior and others considered inferior. And that was part of the thinking of behind the Immigration Law of the 1920s, which remained in effect up until the 1960s. It was not changed until the new Immigration Law was adopted in middle of the 1960s. But so you you had it was in the just antisemitism, but xenophobiaia, hostility to anybody who seemed different to the you know, the people arriving in the United States in the early yert part of the 19th century. Yeah. Have jews returned to kippenheim presently . Are there any jews there now. There are no jews left in kippenheim. But an interesting subject that i deal with in my book is the whole question of what happened after the war, because as i showed you the synagogue was destroyed at kristallnacht. And after the war it was turned into an agricultural warehouse. This is the agricultural warehouse here. The trucks the feed was stored in the synagogue. You can see some of the architectural features of the synagogue. But the you know, the rosette window here has been torn out. Actually there was more destruction of the synagogue after the war than during the nazi period. At a certain point the people starting to ask question base what happened to all the jews who lived in our midst . This man is robert creiss, a local historians. He is not jewish himself. There arent any jews in kippenheim, to answer your question. But he became interested in the Jewish Community of kippenheim and began writing letters to he began doing his own research, began writing letters to former jewish residents of the village. And inviting them back to germany. This took about 30 or 40 years for the historical amnesia to be dispeld. But part of in movement to think again about these historical questions involved a campaign to renovate the synagogue. And they raised money, partly from local sources, partly from one of the German Jewish families in kippenheim, a man called serth oechlt ime e. R. , he wam one of the richest men in israel and member of the kensette and he had a part in the reconstruction of the synagogue and donated funds to it. But most funds came from within germany, actually. And i thought this quote from robert kreiss is interesting here. I asked him, you know, why he did this. And he explained well this is not just jewish history were talking about. Its our history, our german history. So beginning in the 80s they began inviting people back. And some service the synagogue is not a functioning synagogue. Its more like a cultural center. But they have had services in the synagogue. But its not a functioning synagogue. Anybody else . Yeah, back there. You had a slide with dueling quotes from franklin and he will more. In what franklin was was that a press conference . What was the context for him and what was the avenue or the forum that he will more had . And can you speak more generally to their relationship . I think that was id have to check but i think it was a speech that franklin gave at about the time of the fall of france. It might have been a press well probably it was not a press conference with journalists. But it could have been a conference with any invited people to the white house and franklin would respond to questions. And so i think thats i mean, at the time, you know, the question of should refugees be allowed to enter the United States given this dsh what was perceived as a National Security threat, you know, that was at the front of everybodys minds. That was his answer. As for he will mores quote that came from one of her newspaper columns. She had a newspaper column called my day widely syndicated and she often talked about refugees. That was one of her channels to influence u. S. Policy. Another channel was she had a direct line to the president. They didnt share a bedroom by in stage but had neighbors bedrooms. And under the marital arrangements f. D. R. That was a basket outside f. D. R. s room called the he will more basket. Their understanding was that if he will more wrote a memo and stuck it into the basket asking franklin to do something he would Pay Attention to that first thing the next day. He wouldnt always agree with her suggestions or see people she wanted him to see. In fact, he only did that part of the time. But she had certainly obviously had access to him. Yeah. At what point did the United States government or the Roosevelt Administration become aware of the death camps in germany . In other words in other words were any aware that when they denied the visas they were sending jews to their death. Well, they werent dsh they were aware terrible things were happening in germany as early as 1938, 1939. And u. S. Diplomats connell suls in germany reported back that the likely consequence of german policy was likely to be the extermination of the jews. They didnt imagine it would take place in the way it did take place in the end with the actual construction of death camps. They thought it more like sort of, you know, hunger, or work camps where like dachow where the conditions were so terrible people would die. I think the whereness of death camps probably in the course of 1942, about the time that the valfers were being deported from france to auschwitz via dranyy then the first reports came out through germany, switzerland and filtering back to the United States. So by august of 1942, september of 1942 they had a pretty good picture of what was happening in germany. I dont think any understood the scale of it. But any understood that essentially the German Government had started a program of physical annihilation by the latter part of 1942. So they were aware when they denied visas that they were sending the jews to their deaths . Well this is. They knew that. Well, 1942. By the middle of 1942. I mean the u. S. Is. The war by in stanl of course. The u. S. Entered the war in 19 december of 1941. So when the in december of 1941 i mean they knew that a lot of people would likely die as a result of german policy. But they didnt know that they were being physically exterminated in december of . By the middle of 1942 particularly toward the end they did understand that. But by that stage it was very difficult to get from europe to the United States. Yeah, perhaps this lady here. Use the microphone. Yes. Thank you. Im just wondering about your thoughts and feelings and watching the parallels in the country today, in terms of the rise of xenophobia and antisemitism and whats going on with refugees at the southern borders. Well some of the similarity and there are also differences. The similarities some of the rhetoric is very similar, in sort of whole National Security issue. You hear echos of the same debates that took place in the late 1930s. You hear echos today. Some of the rhetoric is similar. I mean there are people in the 1940 there is a senator called senator reynolds saying we have to build a wall. He met a he didnt mean a physical wall. He meant a wall a paper wall. So there are those similarities. Of course there are also big differences between, you know, the i mean, then it was state persecution leading to an extermination campaign. And that is not the same as whats on our southern border right now. So you cant say that, you know history does not repeat itself exactly. In fact, the the director of the Holocaust Museum Sarah Broomfield wrote an introduction to my book and she quotes mark twain as saying history doesnt repeat but it certainly rhymes. Yeah. Thank you. One just follow up question. Its a twopart question. Could you talk about the sentiments in congress, whether the house or senate both the republican and democratic side. Yeah. What their perspective was, a. And of course the other thought you take someone like joseph kenny, we consider very antisemitic big political leaders of the sort that may have had influence on f. D. R. May have what. Had tremendous kwakt on the president s decision making. Im not sure joe kennedy had an impact on this particular policy of emgracious and refugees. He was the u. S. Ambassador to britain most of the time. And he certainly had views about policy towards nazi germany. But he didnt really weigh in on the refugee question. So the first question was. Democrats versus republicans. Yeah, the debates in congress were very important. And there was overwhelming majorities against any relaxation in immigration quotas. One of the things that happens during in period is that there is a bill put forward to admit 20,000 refugee children into the United States in excess of the quotas. And had the strong support of he will more roosevelt, franklin kept quiet about it. But the opinion in congress was, you know, very much opposed. So this bill died in congress, and these i mean, the children could come here as part of the quotas. But they werent willing to relax the quotas. And this was also in a pretty much congress reflected the state of American Public opinion at the time, that when opinion polls were taken, and the question was should we admit more refugees . Even should we admit the children . The there was usually majorities of 60, 70, 80 , even higher against any relaxation of the immigration quotas, even involving children. Right up through 1942 at least. Perhaps we have time for one more question, or we can also wrap it up there. One question, yeah. You mentioned that you chose to one of the reasons you chose to focus on kippenheim was was because of the prevailens of photographs of deportations. And i was wondering if you know why there was this prevailens when when this was a small rural town and in other areas the documentation is destroyed or lost. Thats a kwood good question, certainly goes to my mochgs for choosing kippenheim as a focus of this book. I was amazed by the amount of information available. Im beginning and beginning with kristallnacht for example. And i describe the book begins with a description of what happened in kippenheim, not just not just germany but kippenheim on kristallnacht, and you how the jewish families were rounded up. So that you know, the document came from a wide variety of sources. Several people wrote memoirs. But the richest source was probably the letters. And people kept letters for generations in attics and shoe boxes. And people still have these papers. In fact, you know, one of the families that i write about, they have relatives who settlesed in baltimore. And unfortunately they were unable to be with us tonight. But they i got some of the very interesting documents, letters, from a baltimore family. But court records, the records of the records of the state department, records of hyus, the Relief Agency that tried to help jews get out, french records. I mean the gers camp. They still had and record of all the people detained. So, deportation from france, they werent terrible but they were able to write letters for that was certainly one of the reasons that attracted me to writing about this particular community. Thank you very much, youve been a wonderful audience. [ applause ] our thank you to michael dobbs, i want to remind people that the book is for sale in our bookshop and you can acquire a copy and he has agreed to sign them. Thank you. Thank you for coming. This is a special edition of American History tv a sample of the compelling history programs that every weekend on American History tv like lectures and history, american artifacts, real america, the civil war, oral histories, the presidency and special event coverage about our nations history, enjoy American History tv now and every weekend on cspan3 weeknights this month we are featuring American History tv programs as a preview of what is available every weekend on cspan3 book tonight, look at the presidency of james pohl, the university of tennessee recently completed a project to assemble and edit papers of americas 11th president newman hosted a conference on president polk with his story discussing his views on federal mining and land policies, the environment and religion watch American History tv tonight beginning at 8 pm eastern on cspan3 expect more American History tv now with holocaust survivor theodore clayman, recalling her familys experiences after [ null ] forces invaded yugoslavia in 1941. Three years old at the time, she was visiting her grandparents in a small croatian town and survived by hiding with a series of relatives and neighbors. This event was part of the United States Holocaust Memorial museums firstperson series. It is about one hour. Good morning and welcome
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