Transcripts For CSPAN3 First Ladies Influence Image - Sarah Polk Margaret Taylor Abigail... 20240712

Her father was a local politician, so she grew up loving politics. She married james after he won a seat in the legislature because she would not have married him if he had been content to be a clerk. Unfortunately for james k. Polk, he died just three months after leaving the white house, and sarah began a 42year widowhood. Polk place became something of a shrine to her husband, and she would invite anyone who wanted to to come for a visit to see the objects they had collected through their long and illustrious political career. She lived there for many years on her own, and during the civil war, generals on both sides would come and visit her to pay their respects to her. Thats a very interesting commentary on what a beloved status she still held. She was, you know, earnest about her husbands work. She went to every post she could go to with him. He went through that arduous journey. The hardships were terrible. They really were. She was very well liked in the diplomatic community. They had met all kinds of people, friends and enemies and others, and they had to make things work and work out. They were very experienced people. Frankly, they were more sophisticated than what was around them. She very much felt that women should develop their minds and cultivate scholarship as much as men. Pretty path breaking at that point in our history for a first lady to do. We know today that first ladies have causes. Literacy and reading would have been Abigail Fillmores cause. This bookshelf was part of the First White House library. She much preferred to be in a room with a good book to standing in a receiving line making mindless chatter. We know that abigail was a very wonderful seamstress. We do have her quilt here, a very colorful quilt. Its called a tumbling black pattern. She was one of the true intellectuals. She loved reading. She was very caught up on politics. And liked very much being a part of all of the cultural accoutrements that came with living in washington. Welcome to cspan series, first ladies influence and image. In this program, well meet three first ladies. One, her husbands trusted political adviser. The next, a steadfast generals wife, and the third, a teacher who established the First White House library. They served in the 1840s and early 50s as the country continues to grow and tensions continued to mount over the issue of slavery. To introduce us to sarah polk, Margaret Taylor, and Abigail Fillmore, we have Paul Finkelman, and hes the author of a biography of Millard Fillmore. Welcome to both of you. Thank you. James k. Polk is sometimes described as the least known influential president. Would you agree with that, and why . Well, he certainly is not very well known. And hes certainly important. When he was nominated for president , he had no public office. He had twice lost the governorship of tennessee. Before that, he had been a oneterm governor, and before that, he had been a member of congress. So he was a lawyer practicing law in tennessee. And he was what is known as the dark horse candidate, the first dark horse candidate. He had hoped to get the Vice President ial nomination. Thats what he was pushing for, and suddenly, in a deadlocked convention out of nowhere, polk is the president ial nominee. Most people dont know who he is. He becomes president , and almost immediately, puts us in a position to have a war with mexico. He pushes for the war. He is prepared to declare war on mexico, and in fact sends troops, including Zachary Taylor, who will be the next president , he sends Zachary Taylor to the Mexican Border in an area that is disputed in all International Law says belongs to mexico but polk says is american land. While taylors troops are there, he goes to his cabinet and they vote on a saturday afternoon to ask for a declaration of war against mexico. That night, he gets a message because it takes a long time to get information from mexico to washington. That night, he gets a message that taylors troops have been in combat. He rewrites his message to congress saying american troops have been killed on american soil. Abraham lincoln would later give a speech known as the spot speech in which he would say, show us the spot where it took place, because it wasnt on american soil. So he gets us into war with mexico. We acquire mexico. All of this is very important. It also means the complete blowup of all of the compromises and pushes the country headlong into what will ultimately be secession and civil war, but we dont know anything about him. His wife is also frequently, when you do modern historical surveys of influential first ladies, his wife is always in the top tier. Always. Why is that . She was truly a political partner with her husband. They did not have children. At a time when women were expected to be mothers. And hearth and home, keepers of the faith, but she was very much her husbands political equal and his partner. She never went too far within the boundaries of what a proper victorian or Early Victorian lady should be in the 19th century. But everyone knew that they shared an office in the private apartment. She was active in discussions at the many state dinners they had. And he would ask her to mark newspapers and articles for him to read. She was a sounding board. Franklin pearce, before he became president , told her told her husband he would much rather talk politics with sarah polk than with james polk. And yet the women of the time accepted her. She was very pious, very religious. A very strict presbyterian. She did not allow dancing in the white house. She got rid of hard liquor. But they had wine, of course, and brandies, with the frequent dinners they had. And she was not a prude. But she was very much a woman who knew what she wanted and set her rules out, and everyone had to play according to those rules. And she was respected for it. She was very, very popular. Well, to introduce you to the polks, my video, were going to take you to the polk ancestral home. The house that the polks lived in together no longer exists, but this Historic Site contains much of the history of the family. Well take you there next. This is the inaugural fan. Its an incredible piece of history. It was a gift from president polk or president elect polk to his wife sarah. She carried it with her on the e sarah. She carried it with her on the day of his inauguration. Its guilt paper with bone stars ornately carved and has lithographic images of the first 11 president s. She carried it with her throughout the festivities of the inauguration in the spring of 1845. The back is as beautiful as the front and features a lithographic image of the signing of the declaration of independence. The polks came into the white house a young, vibrant couple. But amidst a Democratic Party that was widely split. It was one of the reasons he said he would run for a single term only and then step down. So, sarah polk used her time in the white house to enhance her husbands political prestige. Dining in the polk white house was a serious affair. Twice a week, mrs. Polk would entertain people coming to dinner. The china was beautiful. The polk china is considered some of the most beautiful of the president ial china. It features the president ial seal. The dinner set is white embossed with gold. They had a tea set in blue and green. Mrs. Polk didnt allow alcohol in the white house. Its not exactly the case. She stopped the serving of whiskey punches at public levies in the white house but wine was one of their largest bills during their years there. One of the interesting objects in the collection speaks to sarah and her ability with music as well. We have a music book that has handwritten notations. And one of the songs featured inside is the song hail to the chief which she is credited as starting as the official anthem during her time as first lady. I wanted to ask about that hail to the chief because a little controversy has erupted between our last program with the tylers and the polks. Is there a definitive answer on that . I wont touch it . I dont care. You dont care . There you go. It came about in the 1840s. Yeah. Its possible that the tylers used it and the polks then confirmed its use. Its kind of silliness to worry about Something Like that. Theres so many more important things to talk about. You drew the contrast with julia tyler who brought dancing to the white house, who ended her brief tenure, 8 months as first lady, by throwing a huge party as they left the white house. Was sarah polk more in touch with the times . Sarah polk calls it an imperial presidency meaning that the couple thought the office of the presidency and the white house as the official executive residence needed to be highly respected. And so there was more formal protocol and so on. It was a very liberal approach. You could come with an introduction to any of their receptions because polk was a democrat. But at the same time, she dressed, he dressed, people were welldressed. There were more formal dinners. There were multiple courses. And it was considered an honor to be at the white house. Basically sarah polk said, dancing at the white house is not dignified. And she was known for her frugality. The president making a 25,000 a year salary and expenses for the White House Events have to be paid out of that salary. How was her frugality seen by washington and the American People . I can do that. She reorganized the staffing at the white house. Sarah polk was a very did was she hired a sort of a steward. They brought in their own servants and got rid of some of the paid staff at the white house. She got her steward to cut deals with the various vendors, grocers and so on in the washington area. And if they gave them significant discounts, they would give them the royal seal, as it were. And so they so, the first endorsement by the white house, right . By her majestys whatever, the american version of that. But, you know, if you want us to buy all of your rolls for all of our white house dinners which were a lot then by god youre going to have to give us a discount. And it worked. And they were very, very frugal in that way, always during the entire time they were married. Just to clarify, when she brought in servants, these were slaves. I was about to say she owned those servants. Thats important to understand, that the polks come from very wealthy circumstances and they are slave owners and they bring a lot of assets with them. So, again, they can afford to be president just as john tyler could afford to be president. We have a quote from her. I would like to have you put this into context. She writes, if i should be so fortunate as to reach the white house, i expect to live on 25,000 a year, and i will neither keep house nor make butter. That echos of modern first ladies and baking of cookies. Almost like Hillary Clinton and cookies. Right. Its actually the context of it is someone said i think ill vote for mr. Clay, his opponent in the presidency, because they say his wife keeps a good house and makes her own butter. That was sarahs retorte. And by god, he did live on the 25,000 a year and she did not keep house. She ran a house, and she did not make butter. But she made sure that butter was made efficiently and that the place was run like a top. Slave mistresses dont make butter unless they enjoy making butter because they enjoy the handicraft of making butter. And its important to see this both for sarah polk and for Margaret Taylor. And i want to tell folks that this is, as always, an interactive program. You can see were working Facebook Comments and tweets in already. We also want to take your telephone calls. Well put the phone numbers on the screen, and well begin taking your phoned in questions as well throughout our program here on our three first ladies were featuring on this part of our series. You know, Dolly Madison has been an element of our series from the very beginning, and this is dollys last hurrah. Yes, it is. What was Dolly Madisons role with the polk white house . She had come back to washington, and sarah polk and dolly became very close. And dolly mentored sarah and sarah fed dolly. Which was very important. She was broke. Honored her in all of their entertainments. They were the two war first ladies. War of 1812 and 30 years later the mexican war. There are many, many parallels between Dolly Madison and sarah polk. The sense of self, the sense of fashion, the understanding the role of the first lady in conveying the, you know, sort of indirects that would support her husbands presidency. And by the way, its not easy to be a first lady during war. There were many, many detractors as the war went on. But, i mean polk went in and said im going to do the following four things in four years and by god, he did. This is also in the 1840s the first time we have photograph ri. We have a fabulous photograph to show you on screen which brings together a number of these characters in one place. Here are the polks and there is Dolly Madison the second from the screen right with her turban as weve seen her so often. We have the opportunity here to see harriet lane who served as a white house hostess later on and sarah polk and james k. Polk. Photograph ri as a political tool, how do politicians absorb this new technology and begin to use it for their benefit . Well, theyre just beginning to figure this out and you really dont get it until the 1850s and maybe theznnk 1860 election when photography is everywhere. You have to sit there rigidly and not move while the photograph is being taken. So, i think theyre moving towards photography. Whats much more important, i think, than photography is still the very sophisticated line type and the sophisticated art in newspapers. So, you get Wonderful Campaign posters that are being done for when polk runs, for example. Courier will later become courier and iems does a Campaign Poster for polks opponent henry clay, justice to henry in the west and its a picture of henry clay. So, theyre using that kind of technology. Photography, i think you probably want to save for the fillmores and beyond. We also have the first known photograph of the white house in this time period which were going to show next. And we are, i should say, working with the bhowhite House Historical Association throughout this series. As we look at this white house, 1846, i think thats the date on the photograph, sarah polk brought innovations to the white house. Central heating and gaslighting. She didnt actually bring them. Lets say they arrived. And centralbo heating and gas lighting, she did hold out when they put in the gas lights and insisted that the oval room at the white house be left for candlelight. When they turned on the gas lights, of course when they shut down the gas for the night the whole white house went dark and yet the oval room was still lit with the beautiful candlelighting. There were experiments, but it ultimately saved the president ial family a lot of money because they had to heat the white house out of that 25,000 salary. So, these efficiencies did come in starting with the polks. Well, earlier but mainly. Central heating in the white house must have been a great innovation. Central heating in the white house must have been a joke. Why do you say that . I dont think you would have been very warm. It would have to be better than the alternative though. Right, you got it. You wonder though because a nice warm fireplace in the right room keeps that room warm. True. Again, what youre getting at, which is always true for the white house for every presidency, is the technology is going to change the way president s campaign, the way president s portray themselves, and the way president ial families live. Notice you just had a picture of polk up there, sitting stiff like this because thats what you had to do when you were getting a photograph taken. I just saw a picture of john kennedy giving a speech with his fist in the air and you can almost see the fist shaking in the photograph. Couldnt do that in these days. We have no sense of personality. We get a bad sense of personality because what we get is these people are absolutely stiff and frozen and have no personality. They are dead. Or they used a brace to stand still. Theyre not smiling. You dont smile in these pictures because it would be too hard to smile that long. Gary robinson asks on twitter what was sarahs educational background that ayllowed her to be so savvy . Her father was a great believer in educating women. She and her older sister were educated at academys in measure fridays borrow, nashville, and he sent them to the Salem Academy in winston salem, Salem College today. 500 miles away, took them a month to get there and they were there for two years. But she was unusually welleducated for her time. And i think that atmosphere encouraged her to speak her mind and participate in discussions. She grew up in a political household. This next question on twitter is one that well answer by video. Dave murdock ask did sarahs frugal ways also prevent her from lavish gowns and fashions, and did the American People see her as frugal . Lets watch this video back at the polk Historic Site and well talk with you about this because youve done some work on sarah polks gowns. Lets watch. How sarah looked was important to her. I think certainly from a standpoint of how she looked and how she was perceived by the public. But i think she saw it also as a reflection on the presidency itself. She was known for having beautiful dresses and looking incredible in a white house that was equally beautiful. The blue dress is called a robe dechambre. It was purchased in france and borne late in the administration. Its basically a robe. It would be the undressed dress costume of a first lady if she was taking visitors before she was properly dressed, this is the dress she would wear. The white dress is a ball gown made in paris france. V cut in the center. It was a style mrs. Polk used again and again. We get the indication she found a style she liked and kept with it. Its a beautiful gown in silk and satin. It has a great deal of lace attached to it as well. Mrs. Polk, always the frugal woman she was, often purchased dresses and would buy a great deal of material to go along with them so she could enhance them and change the way she looked. So, instead of having to buy five or six gowns, she would buy a single gown and buy extra material to make them look differently. Mrs. Polk was a master at accessorizing. She had a wonderful collection of hand bags and purses and rhett kuhls. And then of course her jewelry was of the american mode in the 19th century. It was thought to be rather unamerican for women to wear precious gems and semiprecious stones. Instead she would wear gold and silver french paste and enammal wear. Her head dresses are rare. So few have survived from this time period because theyre made from silks and satins, they tended to get worn out. We have a wonderful collection of head dresses. One unusual piece, a turban, which by the 1840s would have fallen out of fashion but Dolly Madison was still alive during the Polk Administration and was a regular visitor to the polk white house. We wonder if sarah polk didnt adopt that style after mrs. Madison. Conover hunt is the author of this cover story in the white house magazine published by the white House Historical Association showing youve done a lot of work on sarah polks approach to fashion and what it symbolized for her. Yeah, she had a well established sense of style from her childhood. She grew up with silks and satins. During the white house years, of course she dressed elegantly for evenings and reepgs ises. But in the summer of 1847, they sent an order to paris for some gowns for the first lady which was not the usual style. And all of the invoices survive and so do the gowns which is amazing. Sort of the top designers in paris were asked to make some gowns for mr. For the first lady. This was usually done by a commercial agent they had. Jacob l. Martin was the agent in paris. So, he got the order and immediately found his good friend, madam moulton quote, kwood friend who went around the paris shops and found three gowns. The one at the smithsonian is another. The pink and the robe dechambre and the robe at the smithsonian survive. But it was very unusual for her. Now, this order for clothes, lots of accessories, cost about 450. Dolly madisons order in 1811 cost 2,000 to give you an idea. 2,000 in dollars of those days. The pink gown that you saw had more lace on it which is now taken off, but that cost 100. The green gowns were about 25 made by seamstresses in washington. But of course the fabric would have been extra. So, she was trying to find that sweet spot between frugality and image. But she did it so well. Everyone said she was beautifully dressed. She had beautiful deportment. She carried herself like a lady, acted like a lady and was very gracious. At the same time were learning about sarah polk and her modern approach to being a happening to women at large in the United States. 1848 is the seneca falls convention. Whats going on with women overall . Are they beginning to ask for more presence and power in society . The 20 or 30 people at seneca falls are. And its important to have some perspective on what is happening to women at this time. For most american women, not much is changing and not much is being asked. The most important changes for women, the cutting edge of women in politics, is actually coming out of the antislavery movement. So, in the north, you have thousands and thousands of women who are politically active really for the first time in American History. Starting in the 1830s, theres whats known as the great petition campaign. And literally hundreds of thousands of petitions shop in washington asking congress to do things like not extexas because it was seen as a great slave conspiracy because it was, to repeal the fugitive slave law, to end slavery in the district of columbia. And many of these petitions were gathered by women and many women sign these e approximate tigss. So, what you get is women actively participating in politics tozq change america the better. The other great Womens Movement is the Temperance Movement and women are very active in the Temperance Movement. Theyre active in movements to prevent prostitution. And these are things that, of course, are close to what would be considered domesticity for women. Whats fascinating is someone the exception of temperance, would have been appalled at what most of these activist women were asking for. Eventually of course by 1848 some of the abolitionist Movement Women along with a few men such as Frederick Douglas who is at the convention are asking for the right to vote for women. And that, of course, is a long time in coming. But its beginning at this time. Ted is on the phone from jackson, mississippi. Hi, ted. Whats your question . Caller hi, yes. I would like to know i would like to know who ran against james k. Polk when he was running for president , and did sarah polk play a part in getting her husband elected . Thanks very much. Clay of kentucky and clay had run for president twice before this. Clay believes its his turn to become president. He expects it will be a cake walk to the presidency because no ones heard of polk. But clay makes a number of mistakes during the campaign and in the end in a very close vote, clay loses to polk. Oddly enough, clay carries polk home state of tennessee, but polk carries new york which has the biggest number of electoral votes. And when he carries new york, that puts him into the white house. Yeah, the issue of a president ial campaign at that time is very different from what we see today. It was considered proper for the candidate to be called to office. The campaigning, active campaigning, went for state offices like the governor. But the candidates did not show up at the nominating conventions. And afterwards, when they were drafted and they accepted the nomination there were letters sent to the editor. But very little stump no stump speech at all. No stumping at all. Sarah was her husbands Campaign Manager for his congressional campaigns and his gubernatorial campaigns. But during the president ial campaign, it was very much basically a lot of them said, whatever you do, dont say anything. When polk ran for congress, he would canvas the district. When he ran for governors three times, winning once, he went all over the state of tennessee as no other candidate had before. So, one wonders what was going on in polks mind when nominated for president he had to sit home and essentially do nothing except write a few letters. Next is a question from mary in little rock. Hi mary, youre on. Caller hello. I heard somewhere barbara bush is related to the polk and she used their Dinner Service while she and george bush were in office. Is that true . I dont know. Good question. As your series progresses, maybe well answer that question for you. Well go back in time and learn about how the Political Partnership came together. You told us sarah polk was from a wealthy family in tennessee. How did she and james k. Polk meet . They ran in the same circles. Probably through either through Andrew Jackson or through her own fathers family. Polk went to the graduated from the university of North Carolina and then went into law and studied in nashville and became clerk of the legislature. And they met there or they met at Andrew Jacksons because the polk girls were often at the jacksons home. Certainly jackson is known or we think he advised polk to marry her. This is who you need as a wife, he would say. It was commonly said she told polk she wouldnt marry him unless he ran for office. So, Andrew Jackson played something of a match maker here. He and his wife rachel did not have any children of their own and had many, many different young people that they took in. Jackson would write to sarah and call her my daughter. And patricia on facebook asks is it true that a nickname for sarah polk was the spanish madonna. Yes. Where did that come from . Thats because she had extremely dark skin and olive skin. And they thought she looked european, exotic. Now, the jacksons had no children but actually sarah and james k. Polk also had no children. What was the impact of having being freed up from housework and not having to do that and her ability to become a political partner . Well, i think they breezed into that through the years when they realized they werent going to have children. By the same token, they spent a lot of time with nieces and nephews. And sarah, as first laud i did, brought her nieces into the white house to help her with entertaining and returning calls because she did not return calls. As first lady, she did not do it, which was a change in tradition. Then of course when she was a widow, she ai niece and then a great niece who lived with her. James can i also add that had they had children, she would have had slaves who would have raised the children who would have done all of the diapers. She might have slaves who would have been wet nurses when the children were very when children were infants. So, the notion of the burden of families for someone like sarah polk would be very different than say when we talk about Abigail Fillmore who is a woman of very modest means and in fact has to raise her own children without the help of a house full of slaves to do the work for her. So, sarah and james come to congress here in washington. What is washington like at that time . And how involved was she in listening to congressional debates . She was very actively involved. He went for his first term in the Congress Without her and never tried that again because she didnt like being left at home at all. So, she would go and it was often at that time the congressman lived in a boardinghouse and established what they called a mess, several different elected officials living together and sharing meals and a parlor and so on. And they did that for years until he became speaker. And then they had to have larger apartments. But she attended the sessions of congress. She was very, very attentive to the issues of the day. And the elected members of congress knew who were in the mess with her knew that she was a very tuned in congressional wife. James k. Polk makes it to speaker of the house. How does that happen . Politicking. Yeah. Hes a very good politician in the house. The first time he runs for speaker of the house, he loses and he loses to a man who will later run for president in 1860. And then in the next time around, he manages to win. Part of it has to do with jacksonian politics. Polk is jacksons man in the house of representatives, so when jackson has l2p Strong Majority in the house, polk gets to be speaker of the house. We have throughout our history seen the asenden si of the presidency and congress. At this point in our history, which branch of government has more power . I would say congress. So, being the speaker was important. Being the speaker now, being the speaker is not as powerful as being president. We should understand that. But in terms of the politics in america, more i think is happening in congress than in the presidency. I should add, however, that Andrew Jackson is an extraordinarily strong and dynamic president who pushes the envelope of the presidency and really alters the dynamics of the presidency for his presidency. It reverts back, say, when john tyler becomes president. Hes a very weak president. And so being speaker of the house was important, just as its important today. It sounds like from this quote that sarah polk had a view of this when her husband was in the role. The speaker, if the proper person and with the correct idea of his position has more influence over legislation and directing the policy of the parties than the president , says she. The polk particularly when he became president was a powerful president. And in terms of waging war, he pulled a lot of power into the executive branch. But henry clay is the one we all think of as building the job of the speaker of the house, the man who ran for president forever. But its through the years the speakers job grows, the presidency grows the in power. It eastbounds a it ebbs and flows. The balance of power is the key to the whole thing in that nobody runs away with it. It was set up so that could not happen. Our next video demonstrates the role of sarah polk as the political wife. The traveling desk is really indicative of sarahs life with james k. Polk, mainly as his help mate. James k. Polk had no staff as congressman or president of the United States, saussure rah took a handson attitude towards being his wife. The traveling desk she took with her, as a congressman they travelled to washington twice a year in trips that could take 30 days going one way from columbia, tennessee, to washington d washington, d. C. Shes communicating with her family back home so she wrote tens of thousands of letters over her lifetime. The portraits are painted by ralph earl when james and sarah were in washington as congressman and lady. Sarah was a help mate to him throughout the political career. She would critique speeches for him. Daily she would read the newspapers and underline passages she thought important for him to read. She was a regular fixture in the gallery in congress. This is a great time to hear speeches like henry clay and webster and calhoun are giving some of their greatest speeches in this time period and she was in the middle of all of it, a part of his career. The last four of his years as speaker of the house. Sarah very much played the part of one of the official hostesses in washington. Typically, congress would enact a memorial to the outgoing speaker of the house officially thanking him for his service. When james k. Polk Left Congress to run for governor of tennessee, the congress was so widely divided they refused to do that. But in the newspapers, a number of politicians wrote poems in honor of sarah. One was joseph story who wrote a lengthy poem lamenting the loss of sarah polk to washington society. Today we would be amazed at a speaker of the house stepping down to run for governor. Why did he decide to do this . I think because being speaker of the house is something that you didnt do for a really long time in those days. Congressional careers are often quite short in the 19th century. And three or four terms in washington is probably enough. Again, think of the arduous task of just getting to washington from tennessee once or twice a year. Its a lot of work, its a lot of effort. And being the governor is somewhat easier. Its probably less expensive. You are home. And being the governor is a good way to build a political career for the vice presidency or the presidency. What polks eye is on is the vice presidency. He doesnt think hell ever be president. Well. But he thinks he could be Vice President. Next. He could be Vice President next. You know. And the pathway to the white house. The vice presidency is not a very good pathway to the white house. Since thomas jefferson, only Martin Van Buren have made it as president. Sandy is watching us and youre on. Hi, sandy. Caller hi. My question is i know theyre from tennessee. How did sarah actually what did she actually think about slavery and was she a kind slave master . The james k. Polk, in his will, made an expression that he hoped that when she died she would their slaves. As it turned out she sold their plantation before the civil war. But the issue of slavery was not really brought to the forefront during either in their marriage or during his administration. It became much more critical with the administrations that follow polk. Well, i think in some ways thats not true. Go ahead, yeah. That is the politics of america from the 1830s to the 1860s is swirling around slavery all the time. Yeah. The opposition to the mexican war which polk starts which we did not have to have, the opposition to the mexican war in part comes from northerners who see it as a vast conspiracy to steal mexico so that slave owners could have someplace to go. And southerners say as much. They say we want mexico because we want a place for slavery to spread to. Slavery isnt on the table. The reality is polks are slave owners. They are not opposed to slavery. They like being a slave owner. Being a slave owner is very good for the polks. And i suspect she treated her slaves as kindly or unkindly as necessary to get the support from the slaves she wanted. Thats what slavery is about. Heath is franklin, tennessee. Your question. Caller yes, a hero of mine is a nephew of sarah polk named general lucious polk. He served with general patrick cleburne. He petitioned the confederate government to end slavery and get africanamericans to fight for the south. He was wounded severalo o time during the war. And at some point, he was set behind lines and allowed to stay in columbia, tennessee. And he would eventually run the ku klux klan out of murry county. But sarah polk, ive heard somehow kept him from going to Union Prison Camps when any other confederate prisoner would have been sent to Union Prison Camps. Ive heard that she was afforded power because the unions people just respected her so much. Heath, thank you. Im going to jump in right there because our time is short and its important to say james k. Polk announced he was going to be a oneterm president. We will get to your question because the civil war does come and sarah polk is a widow. How long does he live after leaving the white house . Three months. Three months. So, what happens to sarah polk and especially during the civil war . She becomes a widow. She wore widows weeds for the next 42 years until she died at practically the age of 88. And the house they had purchased and fixed up for their retirement became a shrine to her husband. She was very reclusive, only went to church because she received. During the civil war, she did not take sides. The mayor came to her and said, you know, the union is coming into the city. What should i tell the general, the Union General . And she said you may tell him that i am at home. So, he came to call. And the confederates and the union troops respected her. She did not take sides. She was completely neutral, and she isolated herself into the into that period prior to the civil war. And people put their artifacts in storage at polk place to preserve them. But she just went right on through. And she earned a great deal of respect for that. From both sides . From both sides, mmhm. Do you have anymore comments to add to this . No, only that the contrast of course would be with president tyler who becomes a member of the confederate government having once taken an oath to support the constitution of the United States. So, in that sense, the contrast i think with sarah polk is revealing. Jenny webber on facebook who apparently portrays her as a doe sent to the National First ladys library in ohio writes, mrs. Polk lived over 40 years as a widow. Did she continue to be involved in politics . No, she did not. She would speak about her husbands time. Any honors that were sent to her, she accepted in his memory. She was conversant in what was going on but not an active political player. We have one more video from the polk era. Lets watch. James k. Polk was a promised oneterm president. As such, after four years james and sarah polk were going to retire. While they were in washington still in the white house, as they were outfitting the white house as part of that restoration, they took the opportunity to purchase things for polk place, the home in nashville they were going to retire into. They purchased the furnishings from new york city and picked the finest American Furniture being made at the time. Theyre rose wood frame with red velvet. So, we have gentlemens chairs and sofa. Side chairs, we have 18 remaining of the original set of 33. They would ring the rooms with the chairs. If they had guest, they would bring them into the room. We have pictures of the interior taken around her death. The house is filled with objects they collected throughout their lives together. Unfortunately for james k. Polk, he died just three months after leaving the white house and sarah began a 42year widowhood. Every year she opened polk place. Polk place became a shrine to her husband and she would invite anybody who wanted to come for a visit to see the objects they had collected throughout their long political career. Patricia on facebook writes i was amazed by the plaques in nashville that recognize the sites. Why would they allow those buildings to be torn down . Progress. Thats just, you know i worked in Historic Preservation for 40some years. If we didnt have a need to preserve buildings, i wouldnt be in the field. But there are periods you know, the polk home was torn down in nashville. And the great niece kept the artifacts together until they could find a home. And thats what the museum in columbia is. But montpelier, the madisons home in private hands for years and really not safe until the 1980s. These things go on and on all the time. The the homes of the president s are deemed to be among the most important. But in some cases, you have multiple homes that one president lived in. As we say goodbye to Dolly Madisons influence, Sheldon Cooper we cant do a program. Sheldon cooper asks, as influential as Dolly Madison was on future first ladies, did sarah polk provide guidance to future first ladies . Yes, 50 years after she was alive, you see, until the early 90s. Dolly died in 49. So, sarah was the embodiment of the elegant proper first lady after dolly died. And the respect passed down with her, yes. So, building on that, the question is what is sarah polks legacy . Ill let her answer that since shes written a great deal on sarah. I think that james k. Polk probably might not have been able to achieve his ambitious oneterm agenda without her help. She certainly kept the white house running because he literally worked himself to death. And she handled his legacy well after his unfortunate early death. We have most of the legacy is his. The first postage stamp, permanent treasury department, almost doubling the size of the United States and many things to be thankful for. The first ladies themselves are not so much innovators as they are sometimes they embrace those aspects of the american character that the public needs. And i think that she did it very, very well. The election of 1848 brought the taylors into the white house. And as we continue our program tonight, were going to learn more about Zachary Taylor and more importantly for our first ladies series tonight, his wife Margaret Peggy taylor. But it will be a brief stay in the white house so it will be about ten minutes worth of exploration here. Set the stage t for the election. Polk is leaving office. He chose to be a oneterm president which probably was good because he probably would not have gotten the nomination again and he probably would have been defeated. He was not very wellliked when he left office. It is true that he started a war which was successfully won. But when it was over, he didnt want to have peace. He fired his envoy to mexico and his envoy to mexico negotiated a peace treaty after he had been fired and sent it back to washington. And polk was forced to bring a treaty to congress that he did not actually want to sign or have congress ratify, but he was forced to do it. During the war, he became very jealous of the very, very successful general Zachary Taylor. So, he demoted taylor and put general Winfield Scott over him. And then he got jealous of scott because scott was getting all the headlines. So, when the war ended, polk is leaving and taylor is the great hero of the war. Taylor had never voted in an election. Taylor had never done anything political. He had been a career military officer for his entire life. His wife, Margaret Smith taylor, peggy taylor as shes known, had travelled with her husband to some of the most remote military bases in the country. She had been a military wife, the wife of a man who started as a lieutenant and ended up as a major general. And taylors topolitics were almost unknown other than he said over and over again he supported henry clay. Henry clay of course had lost to polk, and henry clay believed that it was his time to win. 1848 was going to be a whig year. Clays party is the whig party. Clay thinks he will win. And out of nowhere, taylor gets the nomination, and clay is absolutely devastated that he doesnt get to be nominated. And in addition to taylor getting the nomination, it completely obscures almost unheard of person, Millard Fillmore who when nominated is the most obscure person ever to be nominated for president at the time, gets the Vice President ial nomination. So, you have this kind of strange axis of taylor who is a louisiana sugar planter running with fillmore who is the controller of the state of new york. For me, theres a kind of person thing, which i have to say i currently teach at Albany Law School where fillmore was living and next year ill be a visitor at lsu, a law school in louisiana. So, im embodiment of that as well. Id like to say lets dont discount that the mexican war brought us all of the western, southwest. California, new mexico, et cetera. He was the commander in chief and he acted like it. And if it upset Winfield Scott who had quite a temper and Zachary Taylor, so be it. But as it turned out, that is what history has recorded. We greatly expanded the United States during that time, and we got those properties for very, very little. In terms of the history of real estate, polk raised high. On to Zachary Taylor only if you think that going to war with a country to steal half their country is an appropriate and legitimate thing to do. And significant numbers of americans believed that the mexican war was purely a land grab and a war of aggression. And many americans, including john c. Calhoun, who was a great defender of slavery believed that the mexican war was a huge mistake because calhoun predicted direct predicted correctly that once you had the mexican war you would open up again the question of slavery in the territories and that would cause a catastrophe. Zachary taylor, old rough and ready. Last southerner elected for 64 years until wilson and the last president to have slaves while he was in office. His partner was margaret pegty taylor. What do we know about her . She was not particularly keen on being first lady. She had gone to all his postings with him. They had innumerable children. Its very interesting that their daughter, knox, married the Young Jefferson davis who fought with taylor in mexico. Unfortunately their daughter died after only three months of marriage. Later when they were in the white house, the taylors became quite close. She was very close to the first lady. The first lady let her daughter do a lot of the entertaining. And it was such a brief amount of time, really, that they were in office that what else could we say about it . Well, he was inaugurated in march 1849, elected 1848, but didnt take office until march 1849. And taylor dies in july of 1850. So, theres essentially a 15month period when they were in the white house. And she doesnt want to be there. She retreats to the upstairs of the white house. She basically retreats to the upstairs of the white house. Oddly enough, like her predecessor, she came from a political family. One of her aunts was married to a three of hterm governor of maryland. One of her cousins was married to a senator in maryland. She came from a very, very wealthy family of maryland planters, although she grew upmost of her early years in the washington, d. C. And Northern Virginia areas. One of her play mates was nelly cuss tis, the granddaughter of martha washington. This is somebody whos been around politics as well. But the opposite of sarah polk, she doesnt want to be involved in politics. She didnt want her husband to run for president. And heres a snapshot according to the seine tus of america in 1850 as this president is serving. The population was by that point 23 million and there were now 30 states in the United States. Thats a 35 almost 36 growth since the last census in 1840. Slaves in the United States numbered 3 million or 13. 8 of the population. The largest cities in the country in 1850 were new york city, baltimore, and boston. Washington, d. C. Weve learned throughout the series as a capital city traded on gossip. It seems the gossip about peggy taylor was like rachel jackson, she was a pipe smoker and didnt bring style and substance. Whats the truth about her and how did this i dont think she didnt smoke a pipe. Lets start with that. The pipe smoking is utter nonsense. And all the people who were close to her say she was in fact allergic to smoke and nobody smoked around her. So, the problem is she is a military wife whos travelled from base to base. Shes gone now, she lived in some style even on these bases because these were the taylors were very wealthy. They had lots of slaves. They had a plantation in louisiana. Some of the slaves would travel with them when they went to bases. But she was not a high society woman. She was not a woman who wanted to be around a crowd. And this was not a world that she felt at all comfortable with. And im sure when she got to washington and dealt with the gossip and the parties, she simply felt that this is not where she was comfortable and she didnt know how to compete and she didnt know how to operate. So, she retreated to the second story of the white house and let her daughter do most of the entertaining. And the gossip continued because she was an enigma. And only because she was an enigma. And she wasnt there to defend herself from the gossip. How did Zachary Taylor die . She had cholera, didnt he . He went to a july 4th and watched the parade on a hot july 4th day. He was a teetotaler. He either spent the day eating cherries and milk or cue comer and milk, depending who you talk to. If one imagines what a bowl of milk would like like in washington, d. C. Without ice to keep it cold, he got some kind of intestinal disease. He survived winters in michigan, minnesota. Frontiers. He survived the deserts of mexico. He was rough and ready. The one thing he could not survive was mid19th century medicine. So, when he got sick, he was bland and they did all sorts of things like give him mercury which would have killed him if they gave him enough. He may have die frd a bacterial infection or because his doctors killed him. What we do know is that he died very suddenly to the great shock of the nation. And perhaps taylor was the last president who could have managed to somehow change the conflict because he was a southern slaveholder who did not believe in spreading slavery to the west. He thought that all of the territories h territories talken from mexico ought to be free. And he was a man who was willing to stare down and if necessary lead an army to suppress southern antinationals and southern suggestions. At one point the texans are planning to march in santa fe and seize all of what is today mexico. And taylor sends troops and one can imagine had he lived if the texans did this again, taylor, like Andrew Jackson, would have said i would be happy to personally lead the army and hang the governor. So, a couple of quick questions. We may have answered them. On Margaret Taylor. I read that as first lady, mrs. Taylor was a devout episcopalial. Did it have an impact on her role as first lady . I read that as well. And in several different publications. I dont think that she realized that when her husband came back from the war she was going to end up being first lady. So, hard to say. And on twitter, bethany johnson, i have two questions about Margaret Taylor. Did margaret play any instruments that we know of and how old was she when she died . She died just two years after she died in 53. She was born in 1788. So, that makes her about 65 when she dies. And she died many accounts of a broken heart because she was so shocked. We should tell the story of Zachary Taylor. She was convinced he was poisoned. Thats right. And that was a story that stayed with Zachary Taylor for many years and in our lifetime, Zachary Taylors body was exhumed. To determine he wasnt poisoned. Because of the cherries and milk. They brought him up and did testing and no poison. No poison. By the way, when fillmore becomes president , he gets letters from people saying taylor was poisoned. So, the Conspiracy Theory americans love conspiracy theories. Were probably not alone in that. Lets listen to sean in columbus, ohio. Youre on the air. Caller hello, i was wondering if its true that Margaret Taylor prayed for her husbands defeat for the presidency. And was he invalid at all when she was in the white house at all due to having so many children and difficulties with children . I dont know that she actually prayed for his defeat. He was the first to admit that she was not very happy with his victory. You know, many of these stories are written well after the fact. And as a historian, we have to question where is the source of the story. So, if you hear a story told in five different places, it turns out its the same story told over and over and over again and we dont know if its true. There is a story that apparently taylor was on a steam boat when the movement was to make taylor the nominee, and somebody asked him who he was going to vote for taylor and why wont you vote for taylor. He doesnt know hes voting taylor. Taylor says, i wouldnt vote for taylor because i personally know his wife doesnt want him to run for president. That could have been true. Taylor was very unassuming and often did not appear to be who he is. There was a true story that when he was in mexico he was sitting in front of his tent not with his general stars on and some young officer came up to taylor and said will you shine my boots thinking hes just an enlisted man. And so taylor shined the boots. The next day the officer came to meet his commanding general. Quickly here, this is the second time in history a president dies in office and theres a Vice President ial success. Do we do better job of it the Second Time Around . Succession . It was a constitutional crisis the first time. They werent sure how it should work. They never fixed it until after the kennedy assassination. We fix it in this way. Yeah. When harrison dies, the question is does john tyler become president of the United States or does he remain Vice President of the United States and acting president . And that is something that the constitution doesnt address. John quincy adams who hated john tyler used to refer to him as his accident si rather than his excellency. By the time fillmore becomes president , theres no question the Vice President will become president , inaugurated, sworn in, now the president of the United States. Fillmore by the way very graciously asks Margaret Taylor to stay on in the white house as long as she wishes and she moves out two days later. Shes had enough. You told us earlier about the new york and baton rouge access. We have to learn more about new york and were going to do that by video. Heres a bit of the Millard Fillmore home that youre going to see now on video tape. We are in this most charming little home. Small as it is, it belonged to millard and Abigail Fillmore. Now, millard and abigail did meet when they were both teachers. They both had this desire and love of reading. Abigail actually was brought up in a family that had many books. Her father was a baptist preacher and he loved to read. So, she was surrounded by books her whole lifetime. Now, when she moves into this house with Millard Fillmore, she continues that. They had their own personal library, and she wanted to let young people learn extensively about the world as it was. This room that we are in is actually the focus of the entire house. Actually, history is made right here. She independently employed herself as a teacher. She tutored Young Students in the evening, namely in the course of history. This room would have been, of course, the living room. But also served as their kitchen. Here in front of the fireplace, millard and abigail would spend hours by the light of the fire. They would do their reading ande bedroom. The original staircase has quite an angle to it. We do believe though it was a wooden ladder at that time when abigail and millard lived here. So, as a young wife and mother dressed in a long skirt and with a toddler on her hips, she ascended that ladder into the bedroom. Within this room we have the fillmore bed and dresser. We know that abigail was a very wonderful seamstress. We do have her quilt here, a very colorful quilt called the tumbling block pattern. The house being on main street here in east aurora was a very busy place. East aurora was a vibrant community. It was frontier but its developing. And so abigail would have also had many visitors. She would have people come in. Possibly theyd have tea. We can envision abigail having a very full life. Her days were full. We do see her as a hospitable, young woman, young wife, young mother, teacher. And that house is Still Available to visit if youre ever in east aurora in new york. The 13th president of the United States was the last whig president. And the other thing and this is picking up on something that paul mentioned earlier that they came from modest means. All the president s before brought personal wealth to the white house and this begins as these a series of president s who are more less middle class. Whats the impact of that on the institution . Long term, the i think that what we see with the fillmores is something of a change that will follow through in the 28th century as looking forward. But the economy, were still prior to the civil war. Thats going to be a giant hiatus in terms of business. And who are the others that are not wealthy. Well. Who come along . There are four president s before this counting fillmore who are not wealthy. The two adamss who are very middle class and in fact John Quincy Adams is probably close to being wealthy at the time. Martin van buren is a comes from a middleclass family. He does. Millard fillmore grows up in abject poverty. Big difference. As had Andrew Jackson. Millard fillmore, his family does not own their land in an area when all farmers own their land. Abigail fillmore, abigail powers grows up. Her father dies when shes two. They dont have very much money. She becomes a School Teacher. She is the first first lady to have worked outside the home. And significantly, she not only works out outside the home before shes married but after shes married. For the first few years, she works as a School Teacher when millard is starting his law career. So these are people who have experienced poverty and who have not at all achieved anything that would be considered other than middle class status. After her death, millard marries very well and he lives his life with wealth. And Paul Finkelman has literally written the book on Millard Fillmore. Here is his biography if youre interested in reading more about our 13th president. Its Still Available where you shop for books. And we have about 20 minutes to learn about the fillmore presidency and most importantly about abigail. So, abigail brings this sensibility to the role of first lady. How does she approach the job . Actually what she is known for, her legacy, is that she created the First White House library. And what her father left to her mother when he died when she was just a little girl was books. And they kept those books and it became the core of her education and obviously instilled in her a love of educating others. So, the congress appropriated 2,000 for the president to establish a White House Library. But it was pretty much understood that she would be the one who would select it. And she really preferred to read and engage in intellectual pursuits. The but she did her duty, you know, and helped her husband. And she had a bad ankle as i recall. Didnt she . Yes. She was injured. She has an injury shortly before he runs for Vice President and she really cant stand. She cant go to receptions and stand. So, she avoids things like add as much as possible and lets her daughter, who by this time is a young woman in her 20s, do much of the role of the white house hostess. Now, the introduction of the White House Library became a controversy with the congress. And i read that Abigail Fillmore successfully lobbied Key Committee members to bring the library to the white house. Whats the story there . She was there at those dinner parties talking to them you see. It was the standing that she couldnt do. But she obviously convinced them. And here comes 2,000 to set up a White House Library. Its a lot of money in those. Which was a lot of money and of course it has to be for the president to buy the books. Well, the president was being president. And apparently she did a very good job of selecting a broad category of volumes for the library. She was interested in music. And wasnt she, paul . She was. Shes interested in music. Theyre also very interested in geography. They loved maps. They buy books of maps. They buy gazetteers. They are very interested in the world in that respect. And shes the schoolmarm. The little film about the fillmore house, there was one slight error. They werent both School Teachers. Millard fillmore was actually her student when she was. And she was two years older, right . She was 21 years old and she was teaching in a private academy and Millard Fillmore had been apprentice to a Textile Factory to learn how to run cloth making machinery. And this was during the 1830s in the middle of the depression and the panic of 1830s after the panic in 1837. And the factory laid off everybody for a while, just closed down for a while. And so, fillmore used this time to go back to school and fell in love with his teacher and she fell in love with him. Now, its hard to tell from the pictures we see but both of them are described at time as being very, very attractive people. As Queen Victoria would later say when she meets fillmore after he wins the presidency that he was the handsomest man she ever met. Now, that might be an exaggeration. So here you have these two young handsome people and fillmore is over six feet tall at a time when most men dont grow to be that tall. He must have been a striking figure. She gloms onto him. He gloms onto her. But they have a very long courtship because her family wont doesnt want her to marry. And they ultimately dont marry until about five or six years later. And for two years, their courtship is only by letters. He moves to east aurora and then goes to buffalo where he becomes a lawyer. Ron is watching us in fargo, north dakota. Youre on. Hey, ron, thanks for waiting. Hello . Yes, thanks. Hey, i was just wondering, did mrs. Fillmore, did she what did she do after the after she got out of the white house . Ok. Well, thanks for asking that. Well, lets deal with her white house years first and well come back to your question in just a little bit. Daryl is in tuscaloosa, alabama. Hi, daryl. Youre on. Hi. I want to ask did the white house have plumbing. And if so, if it doesnt have plumbing, when did they get plumbing . And the dishes that you showed early from the polk, are they still used today . Thank you very much. Well, we learned about gas lamps coming into the white house and heating. What about plumbing . Oh my. Well, fillmore is credited with having the first bath tub in the white house. Yes. Its not clear that its true. And this is the problem whenever you say what is the first in the white house . We do know the fillmores installed either the first bathroom bathtub or a new bathtub in the white house. Do you know a question from Gary Robinson did religion play a big part in the fillmores life and their presidency . Let me take that because its important to understand how it works. Abigail is the daughter of a baptist minister and shes raised in a Baptist Community in rural upstate in new york. Theyre raised in the middle of nowhere in Central New York and in a very poor part of new york. Shes a baptist. Millard has various religious training growing upe vn but when they get married, they are married by an episcopal priest because in the town that abigail lives in by this time the most Prestigious Church is the episcopal church. They then moved to buffalo and they become unitarians because all of the smart people, all of the successful people are becoming unitarians. So, in fact, religion i think for the fillmores reflects what i would call is their journey from poverty to middle class status to ultimately a secure position in society and they changed churches as they go up the social ladder. Were going to learn more about her love of books and her establishment of the White House Library in this next video. When abigail came to the white house, she was appalled that there were no books. So, this bookshelf was part of the First White House library that her and millard were able to get congress to give her money to start the First White House library which still exists today. We know today that first ladies have causes and literacy and reading would have been Abigail Fillmores cause. It was very important to her as a teacher and she carried that love and passion for books right with her into the white house. Abigail suffered from illness throughout her time as first lady and mary abigail would have been the hostess for many of the events. So this punch bowl would have been one of the many items used during the entertaining at the white house. Mary abigail followed in her mothers footsteps and was very educated herself. She spoke five languages and there are stories of her playing piano or on the harp for guests, congressmen who would come to visit the white house. And we have mary abigails piano. We also have her music books that she would have played from. And we also have her harp that was in the white house. When we say she entertained at the white house, she literally entertained. And the room in the white house that the fillmores established as their library was in fact an oval room and youre seeing a picture of it as it looks today. Its called the yellow oval room and this is from our white house documentary when we visited there. That room during the fillmores time is filled with bookcases and Musical Instruments became something of a salon in washington. Yes. How did they use it . Exactly as a salon. So it wasnt useful in their legislative goals . It would she participated in the formal dinners downstairs but there was, you know, receiving always going on. The white house had very little privacy. And she was known for her interest in writers and she had Charles Dickens come to the white house. Yes. She brought i mean way ahead of jackie kennedy. Yes. Bringing some of these leading lights into the white house. Of course, you know, Washington Irving came when dolley was there. But its she was interested in these more intellectual literary pursuits and with her bad ankle. I dont think anyone understands what those receptions were like when they threw open the white house for 5,000 people. Several hours of standing. Hours and hours and hours of standing on your feet. With this salon that she created, it would seem like a very intimate place yes. To be able to bring key members of congress and others. So was it in fact a way to be in the innersanctum of the president and advance his goals . Im not sure. I dont think so. For one thing, i think that few congressmen in those days were interested in talking to a novelist or talking to a cultural figure like that. She brought the woman known as the swedish nightingale, jenny lind, came to sing and then she brought her to the white house. And that would have been a celebrity. And so perhaps some members of the congress would have wanted to come to see the celebrity. But i think that in a sense theres a bifurcation here between Abigail Fillmore creating a cultural setting that the former School Teacher really wants you to by the way, as a mother, shes always a School Teacher. She writes letters to her children because they were separated from their children in various times in their lives, correcting their spelling in previous letters and giving them lists of spelling words to learn. And she may also be always educating her husband who is not quite as well educated as she is at least for the early parts of their lives. Brian watkins asks, what kinds of titles and authors were in the First Library in the white house arena . It was a mixture of sort of the classics. A lot of shakespeare. Shakespeare. Probably lots of histories. Histories. And i know a lot of geography books. They were very interested in foreign countries, as president fillmore sends Commodore Perry to japan to open up japan. And this is in part because fillmore has this kind of personal interest in things foreign and things exotic. Could you very briefly, its so important, but we have to talk about the major the legislative piece because Zachary Taylor dies just as the compromise of 1850s, as its called, was being debated and Millard Fillmore picks up the debate over that legislation. And as brief a way as possible, whats the significance of the compromise of 1850 . What did Millard Fillmore do . Well, the compromise of 1850 is introduced by henry clay, the disappointed guy who didnt get to be president. The goal is to solve the nations problems. And as it emerges in the congress, the compromise of 1850 is a series of separate bills. Its not one bill. And it will among the other things organize the new mexico territory which would they include arizona, the utah territory which includes nevada and utah, and parts of colorado and wyoming. It would admit california into the union as a free state. It also would prevent the sale the open auction of slaves in washington d. C. But it would also give millions of dollars to texas. It would subdivide a portion of new mexico and give what is today west texas to texas which previously no one had believed belonged to texas. And most importantly, it created the fugitive slave law of 1850 which creates the federal Law Enforcement bureaucracy in the United States. Its an outrageously unfair law in which alleged fugitive slaves are not even allowed to testify at hearings on their own behalf so that if a free black is seized in new york and someone says, this is my fugitive slave, the man can not say, no, youve got the wrong person. It created draconian punishments for anyone who interfered with the fugitive slave law. And fillmore pushes the fugitive slave law, signs it almost immediately after its passed by congress, and then very, very aggressively enforces it wherever he can. So amy erickson asked on facebook, how did the compromise of 1850 worked into the timelines of peggy taylor and or Abigail Fillmore . Do we know about Abigail Fillmores position on slavery and how it might have complemented or differed from her husbands . I dont. No. And whats odd about both millard and abigail is they come from a part of new york known as the burnedover district. Its called the burnedover district because it is said that the fires of revivalism burned over so often that it was the burnedover district. It was the most antislavery part of the United States. It was the center of the antislavery movement. Just south of where fillmore is growing up, william seward, who is one of the most antislavery senators in the senate, is starting his political career. Just down the road, Frederick Douglass will live in rochester, new york. And with all these antislavery activity going on, neither of the fillmores ever lift a finger to fight slavery. They never show any hostility to slavery at all. And they show no sympathy whatsoever to free blacks. Its really quite shocking that theyre completely clueless about this. When hes running for Vice President , somebody accuses him in helping fugitive slaves escape. In a letter that is so shocking that i wouldnt say it on the air, he simply says incredibly horrible things about black people and says, why would i ever lift my finger to help them . Conover hunt back to of her love of books. Did abigails love of books as Sheldon Cooper and librarys cause any National Trends in education or any Library Expansions . To my knowledge, no but youd have to look for the long term. The we dont they didnt have the instantaneous communications. Her books were not going to set off a trend for bangs in a way that modern communications do. I think that what were beginning to see as we go in the second half of the 19th century is more and more work for middle class women teaching and so on and so forth. And obviously they would be aware that they had a first lady who was a teacher, honorable profession. And having that library certainly was known. Marley, dodgeville, wisconsin. Thanks for waiting. Youre on. Hi. I was just wondering, how many children did the fillmores have . Two. Two . And one of them served as the official hostess in the white house. Yes. Time is short. Lets hear from ben next. And ben is watching us in los angeles. Ben, you are on. Whats your question . Yes, id like to know what was the Foreign Relations policy like back then . Thanks very much. What was this Foreign Relations policy . Well, fillmores Foreign Relations were in part to enhance trade with europe and trade with other countries so he sends perry to japan. At that time, japan was completely closed to the outside world. And fillmore sends some United States naval vessels and says, were here and youre going to trade with us whether you like it or not. The japanese referred to this as the dark ships. And i saw an exhibit in japan of japanese cartoons in which perry is portrayed as a monster. They thought this was horrible. Fillmore also negotiates a treaty with switzerland to allow trade on equal terms for swiss citizens and american citizens but the treaty has a clause which says that this can only happen if the people in america would be eligible to have own land or have businesses in switzerland and many swiss cantons did not allow jews to own land or even enter those cantons. And when fillmore was told about this, he said, well, there shouldnt really be a problem. So he doesnt seem to be interested in issues that would involve minorities. He later becomes a nonothing, an anticatholic activist. That leaves us a short amount of time left. Elizabeth is from pacifica, california. Youre the last question, elizabeth. What is it . Yes. I just had some comments. Thank you for this series on the first ladies but the fillmores one correction. The fillmores met Charles Dickens in washington in 1842. They did not host them at the white house. Also they did entertain Washington Irving and William Makepeace thackeray. Additionally, abigail reportedly advised millard not to sign the fugitive slave law. And one of her best friends in buffalo was the most prominent abolitionist there, George Washington johnson. Well, thank you so much. We have only 30 seconds left. So why dont we use that as a way to ask both of you Abigail Fillmores legacy . Would you like to start . Books, learning, literacy. And the fact that she may have influenced people by being a working first lady to your point earlier . Yes, yes, careers for women. Yes, i would say that thats the same sadly she dies very shortly. Tragic. After they leave washington, and then her daughter dies two years later. I can only say that there is no documentary evidence whatsoever that she advised fillmore not to sign the fugitive slave law and this is again the apocryphal things that people like to throw out there because they want to enhance peoples reputations without any evidence whatsoever. And actually Abigail Fillmore died in the famous Willard Hotel which continually plays a role in president ial history just very shortly after the inauguration of their successor, franklin pierce. And by the way, we have gotten a number of people tweeting about that earlier call, about the barbara bush connection and telling us that it was actually with the pierce, her name. Yes, it is pierce barbara pierce bush. And so, we will try to answer that question for sure next week. Yes. When we deal with the pierce administration. Thanks to both of our guests for being here and our thanks to the white House Historical Association for their continuing help throughout the series. Here enjoyed watching first ladies, pick up a copy of the book first ladies influence an image featuring profiles of the nations first ladies. Through interviews with top historians. Now available in paperback, hardcover, or as an ebook. First ladies, influence an image on American History tv examines the private lives and the public roles of the nations first ladies through interviews with top historians. Tonight, we look at Mary Todd Lincoln and eliza johnston. Watch first ladies influence an image, tonight at a pm eastern on American History tv on cspan three. American history tv on cspan 3. Exploring the people and events that tell the american story every weekend. 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The deepest clause will find the true meaning of the revolution was in this transformation that took place in the minds of the American People. We are going to talk about both of these sides of the story here, right . The tools, the techniques of slave owner power. Well also talk about the tools and techniques of power that were practiced by enslaved people. Watch history professors lead discussions with their students on topics ranging from the American Revolution to september 11th. Lectures and history on cspan 3 every saturday at 8 pm eastern on American History tv and lectures in history is available as a podcast. Find it where you listen to podcasts. Shes probably the most tragic of all of our fi